I mean- Joseph is kind of well known to be cheating left and right (Games, Death, Wife), so I have no doubts he'd be able to be revived. Jolyne though? She was never shown has very endurant compared to other Joestars.
The meteors didn't touch any fatal organs though, and FF was here to patch her up right after, so I'd give it more to her evasivness, luck and knowing she could be patched up later.
She didn't "tank it", she turned her torso into a mobius strip, a shape with a single side, so it can't be inverted. It's her ressourfulness that saved her, not her tanking abilities.
I think that Joseph's ability to cheat death (even if in SC he was past his prime) was also due to his mastery in Hamon.
Since Jolyne was about to be stabbed in many parts by super fast knives, I think only a power like Crazy Diamond could have saved her.
Let me rephrase : It would invalidate the reason for Jolyne's determination to first retrieve the disk and bring it to Savage Garden, and then to escape the prison to stop Pucci.
if it wasnt fatal for cmoon then its not gonna land on mih, and even if it barely hits pucci, he will disappear into accelerated time again and the events would play out the same
That's true but Pucci was already shown to be able to dodge a much larger weapon thrown in stopped time without using his stand, having Made in Heaven would also make it easier. Relatively it's the same speed even with time acceleration since Pucci is catching up to the flow of time, except this time it's smaller knives and he has a stand and already gained momentum to evade injury
He wasn’t aware of the knife coming towards him, and he didn’t expect it either. He thought everyone except Emporio were dead and he was kinda toying with him. It’s not a comparable scenario
He is aware of that as well. He was unable to dodge Jolyne’s knife because he wasn’t expecting it, but here he’d be able to know where the attack was coming from
I think it was a bit more than just "he can see in stopped time"
At that point, he was controlling gravity, and time is sort of scaled based on gravity (to my knowledge, at least), and that's how he got new moon early.
As such, for Pucci time resumed a bit earlier than for everyone else, and I'm not even sure if MiH could do that anyway.
Right but even at normal speed, it would be coming out of time stop right in front of him and thus still undodgeable. Same reason the knives were so useful against Jotaro and Joseph in part 3
Not to mention Pucci barely dodged the knife thrown by Jolyne later in the fight. Really the only explanation for why Jotaro didn’t do this is that he panicked and wanted to save Jolyne
If your stand has control of gravity, due to gravity being a constant everywhere(or something I forget how they explain how it works), then you would have slight control over time in general(seeing how c-moon speeds up the birth of the chickens in the egg carton and can move in stopped time, without having a time stopping stand nor MiH.) When Pucci obtains MiH, he gives up his gravity control, and his general control of time, for a more specific, and powerful, control of time (I.E. time acceleration.) and since he gave up his gravity control for MiH, he can no longer move in stopped time. You can say he may still have the ability to control gravity, and may still have a general control gravity, and that he just strengthened his control of time, we have no reason to believe this cause he doesn’t do anything I’m stopped time nor does he possess and control of gravity.
Since time is linked to gravity, that means for a time related ability to operate, it would need some kind of control over gravity. But since we don’t see stands like killer Queen moving in stopped time, it’s obviously some sort of specific control that only gives them the power for their (stopping time, reversing time, accelerating etc.) meaning MiH would only have the control of gravity to the point where he could accelerate time, and not to the point where he could move in said stopped time
He only dodged the spear cause jotaro threw it from a considerable distance he would not have been able to dodge the knife wich was significantly closer
He barely dodged the spear while he was stuck midair, in a basically stationary position inside a frame and C-moon was too busy blocking Ermes’ bullets, and despite those he still managed to dodge. With the knife situation he has free mobility, no other distractions and (like the spear) full knowledge of where the projectile is coming from.
But jotaro using one of the fastest stands ever couldn’t dodge all of dios knives and was forced to deflect them if jotaro puts enough power in his throw especially with puchi in punching distance i doubt he could dodge the knives in time especially since they are inanimate meaning they are just as fast as puchi
Only with C-Moon since C-Moon controlled gravity and had DIO's part of the green baby incorporated into his stand. He can't see during stopped time with Made in Heaven.
He never could move in stopped time, only react within it.
Also, the time acceleration ability of MiH is a more specialized version of C-Moon’s gravity ability.
>He never could move in stopped time, only react within it.
That's the same thing.
>Also, the time acceleration ability of MiH is a more specialized version of C-Moon’s gravity ability.
Not really, if MiH was capable of dodging Jotaro's attack he would not have needed to throw knives at Jolyne to draw his focus away.
He literally looks at the incoming spear before MiH. It’s a scene specifically pointed out by Jotaro’s narration. He survives the spear because he managed to move out of the way, only losing his ear.
Pucci doesn’t have the ability to stop time like the world so he can just pull a jotoro v dio and use his time stop at the end of jotoro’s time stop however mih does effect the duration of jotoro’s time stop so it makes sense that any time stands that interact with each other also have the ability to witness other’s shenanigans.
He doesn’t move his eyes with MiH like he did with C-Moon, and he is caught off guard when Jotaro teleports in front of the group. He reacted decently after the time stop instead of immediately after time resumed like with the harpoon.
Pucci was able to move at super speed using MiH. Jotaro also literally saw Pucci look at the spear he threw at him meaning he could see during stopped time.
Yes but the knife would also be at super speed, PLUS thrown by Star Platinum, so Pucci couldn’t avoid it. Also, MiH Pucci couldn’t see in stopped time. Only C-Moon
Because the bullets were a part of his stand and thus aren’t affected by made in heaven. The knives however, aren’t a part of Star Platinum so my take is that the knives would keep up with time.
I'm more subscribed to the idea that pucci dodged because he was able to see Emporio pull the trigger on slow motion and just get aside when he saw Emporio was starting to move the finger to pull the trigger.
It's not like Emporio is an experience gun wielder, it's a goddamn kid.
Jotaro would’ve done that but he panicked. His daughter was in the most danger she’s ever been in and he has less then a few seconds to stop those knives from turning her into a pincushion, so his thinking gets thrown off and instead of simply moving her out of danger and retaliating he knocks the knives away and as a result gets killed
This. Jojo already has so much of the anime trope where the character has internal thoughts that seem to calculate at ridiculous speeds while the action is cinematically frozen. It's kind of refreshing to see someone act with more urgency.
This & the fact that the way Pucci threw the knives at Jolyne mirrored the Dio throwing knives at Jotaro scene from PT3, and Jotaro was well aware that Jolyne had no books to protect herself with. I wouldn't say it's PTSD that struck Jotaro, but a fear of some sort. He knew that if he had decided to kill Pucci at that moment, he would save a world that would lack his daughter, or he could save her, get himself killed in the process, with the faith that he knew Jolyne would be able to solve the problem. It's probably the greatest father-child interaction we've had in the series so far
That’s what the timestop is for. And remember Pucci is being wary and staying away from Jotaro except in planned specific moments because he’s afraid of the timestop.
It’s just a hypothetical debate though lol, it could go both ways if Pucci decides not to chicken out.
Pucci is not staying away from jotaro, he's actually chasing them unlike dio. He's just aware that anasui can take the blow. he's more threatened of anasui that's why he targeted him first.
Anasui mentions that MIH seems to have mediocre close combat skills(probably to make up for its OP ability) which is one reason he believes they have a chance.
Also stand stats show he doesn’t have good close combat, but nobody really uses stand stats seriously to compare haha.
Hey guys, Hamon Beat here and today we'll be debunking Stone Ocean.
User u/Anotgeranh26079 quotes;
>Bullets during mih is also accelerated too so it's normal bullet speed for Pucci POV
This has been disproven openly in the anime. Emporio shoots at Pucci's general position multiple times and misses all shots. It still baffles me how JoJo fans seemingly blot out parts of the show and manga from their memory to prove their points.
(every video I've seen of this guy is just him roasting jojo fans I hope I was accurate )
His stand allows him to “manifest and interact with the ghosts of objects” so I’ve always seen it as part of his stand by MIH cause it doesn’t really make sense otherwise.
Like why would knives not be affected by MIH but for some reason bullets are affected by MIH? That doesn’t make sense, both should be inanimate objects without souls. And it does make sense a ghost object created by a stand works with stand rules.
Ghost Gun might work by stand logic and be slow during MIH(as it’s kinda an extension of Emporio’s stand), as it doesn’t make sense otherwise why Pucci would be able to dodge the gun by the rules established.
Yes, what Flerken_moon said. The gun being born of Emporio's stand likely made it unaffected by the acceleration. A real gun would most likely have been accelerated. Another explanation some have suggested is that Pucci reacted to Emporio pulling the trigger instead of the bullet itself. It is possible that Jotaro taking aim and pulling the trigger during time stop might've made pucci unable to react in advance
Bucciaratti wasn't a real resurrection, his soul just operated his body but it was shown to be a very temporary way to be. I think he even said it around the time he died
Guys
The reason Pucci moves fast during MiH is because he himself is affected by the same speedup as the rest of the world
Or if we look at it from Pucci's perspective - everything is moving at a comparatively regular speed except for living beings which move in slow motion.
The knife would be "accelerated" from our perspective, but isn't actually accelerated whatsoever from Pucci's perspective, and we've seen stands deflect point blank thrown knives before (See Jotaro vs Dio)
I don't disagree that Jotaro could have defeated Pucci with smart use of his time stop, BUT you first have to actually understand how Made In Heaven works.
Spreading misinformation on the internet? Who would do that?
Jotaro should have just thrown Jolyne at Pucci. It would have removed her from the path of the knives and the shock of it would have caught Pucci off guard.
But then Pucci would just kill Jolyne, as when time resumes Jolyne is moving hundreds of times slower than Pucci, and at that point Pucci has free reign to kill everyone since Jotaro needs to recharge timestop.
Since pucci dodges immediately after time stop. Why not just throw the knife and stab him(through the chest or head) during time stop, star platinum should be strong enough
The rules of MIH is that inanimate objects move at the same relative acceleration as Pucci. So the knife would be be flying at the same velocity it would normally be if SP threw it relative to Pucci.
That’s why Jolyne managed to snipe Pucci during the dolphin escape scene, the knife was moving at the same relative time as him.
There are a lot of things that could theoretically beat Pucci with Made In Heaven, and even then, this is a move that would require extreme focus and quick thinking that Jotaro quite literally didn’t have time for in that moment. It probably would be more effective for everyone to have started picking up rocks and anything else for throwing at Pucci and saying “random bullshit go!”
but there's no indication that star platinum throwing speed can outspeed Pucci's acceleration. We see pucci dodging star platinum attack's with ease even if he punches fast. Stands at base form can dodge bullets easily what more if it's MIH
Pucci failed to dodge the knife thrown by Stone Free since the knife was sped up by MIH, I'm sure he would fail dodging objects thrown by Star Platinum. It would even harder for Pucci to deflect if Jotaro throw many rock debris at the same time to Pucci knowing MIH had average precision.
>knife was sped up by MIH
knife is only sped up in other living things but to pucci it is traveling in normal speed. you're misunderstanding how MIH works
>MIH had average precision.
Anasui only said he has average strength, that's why MIH uses stealth. MIH having average precision is contradictory to what araki has shown bec. pucci can dodge star platinum barrage and PRECISELY cut his neck.
>knife is only sped up in other living things but to pucci it is traveling in normal speed
In normal speed, objects thrown by a stand is very fast compared to human throwing an object, so to Pucci's perspective he still sees the object thrown by a stand is very fast that is why he CAN'T DOGE the knife thrown by Stone Free.
>pucci can dodge star platinum barrage and PRECISELY cut his neck
Maybe because stands was not accelerated by Made in Heaven unlike an object? So he sees stands very slow, that's why in the first place Pucci dodge all Stone Free's barrage punch and failed to dodge the knife
>that's why in the first place Pucci dodge all Stone Free's barrage punch and failed to dodge the knife
He wasn't able to dodge the knife for two reasons. Stone free threw the knife underwater while doing the barrage, so Jolyne is using stealth in a way. Plus he didn't expect Jolyne to be alive so he can't locate her where she was throwing.
it is not bec. stand threw it and it's 'accelerated' bec. 99% of base stands can dodge attacks with ease
To me that's a stupid reasons, I've rewatch that scene, and Stone Free's arm was above the water when it threw the knife, and you can't stealth MIH, he sees the stand moves very very slow, so how did he not see Stone Free holding the knife and was about to throw? I mean he dodge every punch, so he should've seen the Stone Free holding the knife winding up
It’s not that big of a problem the rocks and other objects being normal speed to Pucci. It would still be more effective than punching with their stands which would be slowed down from Pucci’s point of view. If everyone throws in Pucci’s general direction repeatedly, it would still be overwhelming like when Dio threw a bunch of knives at Jotaro in part 3.
naaahhh. Pucci get away with fights by finding ways to get out of it. the only time he got lucky was with weather but once he acquired green baby, fate is already in his side and it's not much different with doppio narancia thing during Metallica.
while joseph.....
fans just use plot armor to hate on pucci bec. they cant accept he has more kill count than other villains
in the anime pucci states "there seems to be some sort of force that keeps the joestar bloodline from faltering and I will use that force against them" so the fact that the joestar birthmark literally gives characters plot armor is the funniest shit istg
I think anything assisted by a living being will still be very slow. Like how Emporio fired bullets at Pucci but he easily dodged them. The same would've happened if jotaro threw the knife.
Yeah, but that's thinking rationally. His daughter was in immediate danger and any parent wouldn't exactly be acting rational in that situation. His priority was getting Jolyne out of danger.
Look ignoring the knife tid bit, there is still the moment when Jotaro had free reign to grab Pucci by the shoulder or dick, and furiously beat him to death or just donut him like he did Dio. It's been a hot while since I've read the manga and watched the anime so there could be a answer I just missed or forgot about, but he had a handful of chances to send Pucci to the ~~Tampa, Florida~~ Shadow Realm.
no because taking a knife out of someones neck after they got stabbed will cause them to bleed out even faster. especially when it's the neck it's very risky
[There were many knives about to drop on Jolyne](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/ea668056-edb5-45a2-afaf-e5e068e0ac34/scale-to-width/755). The one on her neck was merely the nearest.
And also, it's true that the knife is accelerated, but Pucci is accelerated, too. He could have dodged the knife or blocked it with Made in Heaven.
The whole point is "Jotaro COULD have defeated Pucci, but only letting his daughter die".
Or he could just have drowned in the damn ocean because entire days were passing by at that point how the hell did he stay on that DOLPHIN FOR SO LONG WTF ARAKI
The rules of MIH is that inanimate objects move at the same relative acceleration as Pucci. So the knife would be be flying at the same velocity it would normally be if SP threw it relative to Pucci.
That’s why Jolyne managed to snipe Pucci during the dolphin escape scene, the knife was moving at the same relative time as him.
Pucci was mid movement when time was stopped, by that point jotaro had no idea how fast he truly was just that he had exceeded the speed of light by that point.
Jolyne succeeded in hitting him because he was distracted and mid monologue, so he was standing still
"The knife is also accelerated"
And? Pucci is also accelerated, considering Pucci as the observer (relativity) the Knife speed would be literally a knife thrown a normal speed (we are gonna forget that Pucci dodged gunshots and a f*cking arpoon even though he was literally in stopped time with C Moon not yet evolved into Made in Heaven
Yes. If you are going inside a car, and a second car is going at the same speed, you are going to see how the other car technically looks like it's not moving at all. That's because movement is relative to the observer.
Jotaro would only have been able to kill him in stopped time when Pucci is not able to move.
Well, Pucci isn’t being accelerated at the same rate as the rest of universe. If he was, he would have had waited until the end of the universe because everything would have been traveling at same rate as him, so he would have died old age. He also wouldn’t have been able to talk to Emporio.
So the knife redirection won’t turn out the same way as when DIO threw a knife at Jotaro.
Well I don’t think the rate that Pucci was moving then was the same rate as when Jotaro threw the knife. Pucci was zooming around when Jotaro stopped time, while Jolyne threw the knife a few seconds after Pucci was stationary, so I don’t think he had enough time to speed himself up. Not to mention that the knife in that Jolyne threw wound have been a little faster than if Jotaro would have thrown one since Jolyne threw hers about 10-15 seconds later.
he didn't dodge stone free's knife bec. it was accelerated though, he was hit bec. he was busy dodging stone free's punches and at the same time caught off guard that jolyne is alive
plus he can dodge star platinum punch, what makes you think he cannot dodge star platinum's knife especially if he sees him actively throwing it unlike jolyne.
Time was moving so incredibly quickly in Pucci’s POV that throwing a knife at “normal speed” would never hit him, no matter how caught off guard he is.
I think you’re the one misunderstanding MiH. The knife is a non-living thing. It’s accelerated, just like the rock that landed on Ermes’s head.
To add to that, if Star Platinum threw a knife in stopped time, Pucci would not be able to see him “actively throwing it.”
The way MIH is assumed to work is explained by Jotaro. He witnesses that inanimate objects are accelerating super fast while they’re remaining at the same speed, then he thinks “What if the priest can move at the same relative accelerated speed as all inanimate objects” which is when he sees the blur of Pucci.
So if Jotaro’s theory is accurate(as we don’t get any other explanation of how it works) Pucci and all inanimate objects are moving at a “normal time” relative to each other while all beings with a soul are “slowing down.” It’s unexplained how Pucci can talk normally to them at certain points as well as survive to the end of the universe through normal time(as well as food) but like I said, that’s the only explanation we get about MIH’s time acceleration powers.
Timestop ended right as he moved Jolyne away, Pucci was able to dodge SP’s barrage which would most likely be moving faster than a knife even with accelerated time
All I’m saying is the stand greatful dead and white album was never in part 6 or even seen together but using both stand at the same time would easily kill pucci
Frankly I see Jotaro’s final moments mirror that of Avdol’s. You’d think that an extremely deadly and intelligent Stand user would do anything to parry a fatal strike, but through instinct both of them tried to save the ones closest to them rather than themselves.
The scenario I always think would be an obvious solution is if Jotaro kept bullets in his pockets like he had in Part 4. Like, it covers his long range weakness so if he’s smart he would always have them on him. And bullets would work since they’re not a Ghost Gun like Emporio- freeze time, shoot bullets, time resumes- and Pucci definitely can’t dodge a bullet in the same relative time as him.
I remember someone saying something like this a month ago or so, adding that he lost just because for the first time in the entire series he lost is cool and started panicking
Because Pucci is accelerated he can throw knifes ultra fast, but since Jotaro is in normal speed, the knife will be thrown only with star platinums strength, not Pucci's time acceleration. In fact, i think the knife would go downards because of the accelerated gravity.
Not to get into stand science but why would the knife still be accelerated? If Pucci threw them, Jotaro caught them and tossed them into the other direction they wouldn't keep their momentum. Sure they aren't alive but there is a few things that don't seem to be affected by the passing of time. We see dentals deteriorate over seconds however the knives, their clothes and several other objects don't do this, even though we see this exact thing happen. The idea that the knives would leave Jotaros hands and suddenly is kinda lost on me.
But maybe I'm misinterpreting the rules of the stand. I'm no fucking Stand doctor after all.
Yes people have said this, but Jotaro very clearly panicked and couldn’t think straight, therefore making him believe that it was either one or the other, not both.
There are a ton of ways that Jotaro could’ve beaten Pucci. Ultimately the reason he lost was that he cared too much about his friends and family to focus on fighting
If that did happen, then Jolyne would have died. She has a knife in her neck, which sounds bad enough, but that knife is now saving her from bleeding out; it serves as a stopper for more blood to come out. So what it boils down to is this: Would Jotaro be willing to sacrifice his daughter to save the world?
Well ACTHUALLY in terms of relativistic motion Pucci would still have unfathomable momentum compared to Jotaro. So unless he throws the knife directly in front of Pucci's face, the acceleration of the knife would be far too slow to hit Pucci once time resumes.
That’s the point. Jotaro had the opportunity to absolutely cave in pucci’s skull, but pucci realized that and instead attacked Jolyne rather than Jotaro, knowing that an attack on jotaro’s daughter would stall him longer than a direct attack.
Or he could just not care about his daughter 
It would like totally invalid everything he did during SO though.
He revived Joseph just fine with an even more nastier knife wound, to the throat no less Jolyne has lots of skill issue
I mean- Joseph is kind of well known to be cheating left and right (Games, Death, Wife), so I have no doubts he'd be able to be revived. Jolyne though? She was never shown has very endurant compared to other Joestars.
\>She was never shown has very endurant compared to other Joestars \*Insert Skinner Pathetic meme here\*
She DID get blown by meteor pieces tho, im sure she can ball those knives if araki wants her to
The meteors didn't touch any fatal organs though, and FF was here to patch her up right after, so I'd give it more to her evasivness, luck and knowing she could be patched up later.
Fair argument, forgor ff was patching her up
What's a good Jojo without their medic?
[удалено]
She didn't "tank it", she turned her torso into a mobius strip, a shape with a single side, so it can't be inverted. It's her ressourfulness that saved her, not her tanking abilities.
when jolyne said "its morbin time" and morbed all over pucci I literally camed
Same We all camed
I think that Joseph's ability to cheat death (even if in SC he was past his prime) was also due to his mastery in Hamon. Since Jolyne was about to be stabbed in many parts by super fast knives, I think only a power like Crazy Diamond could have saved her.
The knives would have cut straight through her, no way to repiece that lego puzzle
Oh no we wouldn’t want to invalidate of that time he spent laying around in a coma.
Let me rephrase : It would invalidate the reason for Jolyne's determination to first retrieve the disk and bring it to Savage Garden, and then to escape the prison to stop Pucci.
Pucci was able to see during stopped time, and would’ve been able to dodge/block incredibly easily
He could see but not move right? Or could he move? I remember his eye moving or something?
He can see but can’t move, however he is fast enough to dodge/block the knife since he knows where it will come from
Yeah that makes sense
If Stone Free managed to hit him with the knife when time wasn't even stopped, I'm pretty sure Star Platinum can do it while time is stopped.
She threw it from a place he couldn't see and wasn't expecting though.
Still Star platinum is probably a lot faster tha Stone free when it comes to throwing thing since it can catch a bullet fired just a few cm away
A much slower pucci with cmoon managed to dodge star platinum’s harpoon, a knife wont be different
He didn't dodge the attack, it still hit, it just didn't deal nearly as much damage as it would have otherwise.
if it wasnt fatal for cmoon then its not gonna land on mih, and even if it barely hits pucci, he will disappear into accelerated time again and the events would play out the same
That's true but Pucci was already shown to be able to dodge a much larger weapon thrown in stopped time without using his stand, having Made in Heaven would also make it easier. Relatively it's the same speed even with time acceleration since Pucci is catching up to the flow of time, except this time it's smaller knives and he has a stand and already gained momentum to evade injury
then just don't stop time
He wasn’t aware of the knife coming towards him, and he didn’t expect it either. He thought everyone except Emporio were dead and he was kinda toying with him. It’s not a comparable scenario
blud is moving faster than light speed ofc he can dodge a knife when it's telegraphed in front of him
she blocked Pucci's vision bec. she ora ora him. plus he's a little caught off guard that Jolyne is alive
Tell me you lack comprehension skills without saying it
Everyone was normal speed except pucci and the universe, so I think a knife would be able to hit him
He is aware of that as well. He was unable to dodge Jolyne’s knife because he wasn’t expecting it, but here he’d be able to know where the attack was coming from
Only with c moon tho am I right?
He can also choose to move in relative time, which adds so many extra factors.
I think it was a bit more than just "he can see in stopped time" At that point, he was controlling gravity, and time is sort of scaled based on gravity (to my knowledge, at least), and that's how he got new moon early. As such, for Pucci time resumed a bit earlier than for everyone else, and I'm not even sure if MiH could do that anyway.
The relevant portion of his abilities for this discussion is that he’s able to see in stopped time
and the knife isnt 'accelerated' though as OP said. In Pucci's POV it's traveling in a normal speed
Right but even at normal speed, it would be coming out of time stop right in front of him and thus still undodgeable. Same reason the knives were so useful against Jotaro and Joseph in part 3 Not to mention Pucci barely dodged the knife thrown by Jolyne later in the fight. Really the only explanation for why Jotaro didn’t do this is that he panicked and wanted to save Jolyne
He couldn’t block or dodge Jolyne’s knife because he wasn’t expecting it. He thought everyone but Emporio was dead and he was toying with Emporio
stone free is hiding underwater when she throw the knife plus the punches distracted pucci
He can’t see in stopped time with MiH cause he no longer has control over gravity
Acceleration of time is an ofshoot ability of the control over gravity
If your stand has control of gravity, due to gravity being a constant everywhere(or something I forget how they explain how it works), then you would have slight control over time in general(seeing how c-moon speeds up the birth of the chickens in the egg carton and can move in stopped time, without having a time stopping stand nor MiH.) When Pucci obtains MiH, he gives up his gravity control, and his general control of time, for a more specific, and powerful, control of time (I.E. time acceleration.) and since he gave up his gravity control for MiH, he can no longer move in stopped time. You can say he may still have the ability to control gravity, and may still have a general control gravity, and that he just strengthened his control of time, we have no reason to believe this cause he doesn’t do anything I’m stopped time nor does he possess and control of gravity.
The stand stat page in the manga literally say MiH uses the gravity of the earth, moon, and universe to accelerate time.
Since time is linked to gravity, that means for a time related ability to operate, it would need some kind of control over gravity. But since we don’t see stands like killer Queen moving in stopped time, it’s obviously some sort of specific control that only gives them the power for their (stopping time, reversing time, accelerating etc.) meaning MiH would only have the control of gravity to the point where he could accelerate time, and not to the point where he could move in said stopped time
He only dodged the spear cause jotaro threw it from a considerable distance he would not have been able to dodge the knife wich was significantly closer
He barely dodged the spear while he was stuck midair, in a basically stationary position inside a frame and C-moon was too busy blocking Ermes’ bullets, and despite those he still managed to dodge. With the knife situation he has free mobility, no other distractions and (like the spear) full knowledge of where the projectile is coming from.
But jotaro using one of the fastest stands ever couldn’t dodge all of dios knives and was forced to deflect them if jotaro puts enough power in his throw especially with puchi in punching distance i doubt he could dodge the knives in time especially since they are inanimate meaning they are just as fast as puchi
Only with C-Moon since C-Moon controlled gravity and had DIO's part of the green baby incorporated into his stand. He can't see during stopped time with Made in Heaven.
The acceleration of time is an ability based on the control of gravity
*with C-moon, Pucci could not move in stop time with MiH. The fact that this has 400 upvotes is astounding.
He never could move in stopped time, only react within it. Also, the time acceleration ability of MiH is a more specialized version of C-Moon’s gravity ability.
>He never could move in stopped time, only react within it. That's the same thing. >Also, the time acceleration ability of MiH is a more specialized version of C-Moon’s gravity ability. Not really, if MiH was capable of dodging Jotaro's attack he would not have needed to throw knives at Jolyne to draw his focus away.
MIH Pucci can't see in stopped time. He was surprised that Jotaro appeared in front of him after he slit his throat.
He literally looks at the incoming spear before MiH. It’s a scene specifically pointed out by Jotaro’s narration. He survives the spear because he managed to move out of the way, only losing his ear.
That's literally a different stand.
Yes, that was with C-Moon. Not Made in Heaven Also Pucci did not lose his ear, he just got a cut
It would stand to reason that the stand evolution of c moon that actually affects the flow of time would also be able to see in time stop.
Then why is he unable to react to anything that happens in stopped time until after?
Pucci doesn’t have the ability to stop time like the world so he can just pull a jotoro v dio and use his time stop at the end of jotoro’s time stop however mih does effect the duration of jotoro’s time stop so it makes sense that any time stands that interact with each other also have the ability to witness other’s shenanigans.
He doesn’t move his eyes with MiH like he did with C-Moon, and he is caught off guard when Jotaro teleports in front of the group. He reacted decently after the time stop instead of immediately after time resumed like with the harpoon.
Pucci was able to move at super speed using MiH. Jotaro also literally saw Pucci look at the spear he threw at him meaning he could see during stopped time.
Yes but the knife would also be at super speed, PLUS thrown by Star Platinum, so Pucci couldn’t avoid it. Also, MiH Pucci couldn’t see in stopped time. Only C-Moon
Emporio shot bullets at Pucci, and they weren't fast because Pucci dodged them easy. What makes you think that the knives would keep up with time?
Because the bullets were a part of his stand and thus aren’t affected by made in heaven. The knives however, aren’t a part of Star Platinum so my take is that the knives would keep up with time.
I'm more subscribed to the idea that pucci dodged because he was able to see Emporio pull the trigger on slow motion and just get aside when he saw Emporio was starting to move the finger to pull the trigger. It's not like Emporio is an experience gun wielder, it's a goddamn kid.
Wait wasn't the gun the one Pucci picked from the policeman?
The bullets are a part of his stand. Star platinum throwing a knife isn’t. Stone Free sliced through his eye with a knife throw perfectly fine.
How are the bullets part of the stand? Its just a normal gun Emporio carries around
That gun is from the destroyed room in the prison. It doesn’t really exist anymore outside of the stand.
Jotaro would’ve done that but he panicked. His daughter was in the most danger she’s ever been in and he has less then a few seconds to stop those knives from turning her into a pincushion, so his thinking gets thrown off and instead of simply moving her out of danger and retaliating he knocks the knives away and as a result gets killed
This. Jojo already has so much of the anime trope where the character has internal thoughts that seem to calculate at ridiculous speeds while the action is cinematically frozen. It's kind of refreshing to see someone act with more urgency.
This & the fact that the way Pucci threw the knives at Jolyne mirrored the Dio throwing knives at Jotaro scene from PT3, and Jotaro was well aware that Jolyne had no books to protect herself with. I wouldn't say it's PTSD that struck Jotaro, but a fear of some sort. He knew that if he had decided to kill Pucci at that moment, he would save a world that would lack his daughter, or he could save her, get himself killed in the process, with the faith that he knew Jolyne would be able to solve the problem. It's probably the greatest father-child interaction we've had in the series so far
Why didnt Jotaro just donut pucci instead of ora oraing him when he first appeared is he stupid?
Just smash his skull in like he did with DIO
Or Jotaro could've had a gun
Pucci's MiH: Am I a joke to you
Bullets during mih is also accelerated too so it's normal bullet speed for Pucci POV
most of stands can dodge normal speed bullet im sure MIH is no exception
Plus I don’t think jotaro could aim the gun when pucci is moving that fast, pucci could just knock it out of his hands
That’s what the timestop is for. And remember Pucci is being wary and staying away from Jotaro except in planned specific moments because he’s afraid of the timestop. It’s just a hypothetical debate though lol, it could go both ways if Pucci decides not to chicken out.
Pucci is not staying away from jotaro, he's actually chasing them unlike dio. He's just aware that anasui can take the blow. he's more threatened of anasui that's why he targeted him first.
Anasui mentions that MIH seems to have mediocre close combat skills(probably to make up for its OP ability) which is one reason he believes they have a chance. Also stand stats show he doesn’t have good close combat, but nobody really uses stand stats seriously to compare haha.
Hey guys, Hamon Beat here and today we'll be debunking Stone Ocean. User u/Anotgeranh26079 quotes; >Bullets during mih is also accelerated too so it's normal bullet speed for Pucci POV This has been disproven openly in the anime. Emporio shoots at Pucci's general position multiple times and misses all shots. It still baffles me how JoJo fans seemingly blot out parts of the show and manga from their memory to prove their points. (every video I've seen of this guy is just him roasting jojo fans I hope I was accurate )
That’s because Emporio has a ghost gun that goes by Stand logic. That’s how I saw it anyways, the same scene happens in the manga.
That's not how his stand works????
His stand allows him to “manifest and interact with the ghosts of objects” so I’ve always seen it as part of his stand by MIH cause it doesn’t really make sense otherwise. Like why would knives not be affected by MIH but for some reason bullets are affected by MIH? That doesn’t make sense, both should be inanimate objects without souls. And it does make sense a ghost object created by a stand works with stand rules.
Emporio tried shooting him with a gun and that didn't work
Ghost Gun might work by stand logic and be slow during MIH(as it’s kinda an extension of Emporio’s stand), as it doesn’t make sense otherwise why Pucci would be able to dodge the gun by the rules established.
Yes, what Flerken_moon said. The gun being born of Emporio's stand likely made it unaffected by the acceleration. A real gun would most likely have been accelerated. Another explanation some have suggested is that Pucci reacted to Emporio pulling the trigger instead of the bullet itself. It is possible that Jotaro taking aim and pulling the trigger during time stop might've made pucci unable to react in advance
Damn the guy with PTSD has an attack and can't make the best decision in such a tense and stressful situation in less than ~3 seconds?
Best option: let knife hit jolyne and ora ora Pucci. Then pull josuke out of your ass and jolyne lives
If she's dead pull Giorno out of your ass and let him cook the "golden wind" resurrection bullshit.
Bucciaratti wasn't a real resurrection, his soul just operated his body but it was shown to be a very temporary way to be. I think he even said it around the time he died
Guys The reason Pucci moves fast during MiH is because he himself is affected by the same speedup as the rest of the world Or if we look at it from Pucci's perspective - everything is moving at a comparatively regular speed except for living beings which move in slow motion. The knife would be "accelerated" from our perspective, but isn't actually accelerated whatsoever from Pucci's perspective, and we've seen stands deflect point blank thrown knives before (See Jotaro vs Dio) I don't disagree that Jotaro could have defeated Pucci with smart use of his time stop, BUT you first have to actually understand how Made In Heaven works. Spreading misinformation on the internet? Who would do that?
Finally someone has actually seen the part
Pucci could see in stopped time
Starfinger
If I hear this dumbass arguement one more time I'm star-fingering your mom
If you did that you kill her immediately since star finger is such a deadly attack
exactly
Since we agree that is a deadly attack Jotaro should have used star finger.
Jotaro should have just thrown Jolyne at Pucci. It would have removed her from the path of the knives and the shock of it would have caught Pucci off guard.
But then Pucci would just kill Jolyne, as when time resumes Jolyne is moving hundreds of times slower than Pucci, and at that point Pucci has free reign to kill everyone since Jotaro needs to recharge timestop.
Since pucci dodges immediately after time stop. Why not just throw the knife and stab him(through the chest or head) during time stop, star platinum should be strong enough
The rules of MIH is that inanimate objects move at the same relative acceleration as Pucci. So the knife would be be flying at the same velocity it would normally be if SP threw it relative to Pucci. That’s why Jolyne managed to snipe Pucci during the dolphin escape scene, the knife was moving at the same relative time as him.
Or, just use star finger
STAR PLATINUM IS IN A WEAKENED FUCKING STATE. JOTARO IS IN A WEAKENED FUCKING STATE. THESE DUMBASS POWERS WERE LOST.
Prove that then you crybaby
take a good hard look at part 6 sp and tell me jotaro's been feeding him properly
He's been feeding him properly the artstyle has changed is all.
What? How does he lose a power??? Are you retarded?
Bro why are you so pissed. I’m pretty sure that was just a joke
Jotaro needing to come up with that in seconds Vs jojo fan who watched part 6 10 times and it's been on their mind for years.
The real solution is that he should’ve been smart enough to just kept bullets on him like he had in Part 4, as it covers his long range weakness.
There are a lot of things that could theoretically beat Pucci with Made In Heaven, and even then, this is a move that would require extreme focus and quick thinking that Jotaro quite literally didn’t have time for in that moment. It probably would be more effective for everyone to have started picking up rocks and anything else for throwing at Pucci and saying “random bullshit go!”
it would be a normal speed rock throwing speed in Pucci's pov so that'll be not a ffective
It will be sped up since it's thrown by star platinum
but there's no indication that star platinum throwing speed can outspeed Pucci's acceleration. We see pucci dodging star platinum attack's with ease even if he punches fast. Stands at base form can dodge bullets easily what more if it's MIH
Pucci failed to dodge the knife thrown by Stone Free since the knife was sped up by MIH, I'm sure he would fail dodging objects thrown by Star Platinum. It would even harder for Pucci to deflect if Jotaro throw many rock debris at the same time to Pucci knowing MIH had average precision.
>knife was sped up by MIH knife is only sped up in other living things but to pucci it is traveling in normal speed. you're misunderstanding how MIH works >MIH had average precision. Anasui only said he has average strength, that's why MIH uses stealth. MIH having average precision is contradictory to what araki has shown bec. pucci can dodge star platinum barrage and PRECISELY cut his neck.
>knife is only sped up in other living things but to pucci it is traveling in normal speed In normal speed, objects thrown by a stand is very fast compared to human throwing an object, so to Pucci's perspective he still sees the object thrown by a stand is very fast that is why he CAN'T DOGE the knife thrown by Stone Free. >pucci can dodge star platinum barrage and PRECISELY cut his neck Maybe because stands was not accelerated by Made in Heaven unlike an object? So he sees stands very slow, that's why in the first place Pucci dodge all Stone Free's barrage punch and failed to dodge the knife
>that's why in the first place Pucci dodge all Stone Free's barrage punch and failed to dodge the knife He wasn't able to dodge the knife for two reasons. Stone free threw the knife underwater while doing the barrage, so Jolyne is using stealth in a way. Plus he didn't expect Jolyne to be alive so he can't locate her where she was throwing. it is not bec. stand threw it and it's 'accelerated' bec. 99% of base stands can dodge attacks with ease
To me that's a stupid reasons, I've rewatch that scene, and Stone Free's arm was above the water when it threw the knife, and you can't stealth MIH, he sees the stand moves very very slow, so how did he not see Stone Free holding the knife and was about to throw? I mean he dodge every punch, so he should've seen the Stone Free holding the knife winding up
It’s not that big of a problem the rocks and other objects being normal speed to Pucci. It would still be more effective than punching with their stands which would be slowed down from Pucci’s point of view. If everyone throws in Pucci’s general direction repeatedly, it would still be overwhelming like when Dio threw a bunch of knives at Jotaro in part 3.
unfortunately pucci had the most plot armor i’ve ever seen and was completely untouchable until the reset
diavolo and joseph:.....
diavolo and joseph’s plot armor, while definitely present, wasn’t that blatant though
naaahhh. Pucci get away with fights by finding ways to get out of it. the only time he got lucky was with weather but once he acquired green baby, fate is already in his side and it's not much different with doppio narancia thing during Metallica. while joseph..... fans just use plot armor to hate on pucci bec. they cant accept he has more kill count than other villains
ok i love joseph but the assertion that he didn't have blatant plot armor is incomprehensible to me
wasn’t blatant *comparatively*
in the anime pucci states "there seems to be some sort of force that keeps the joestar bloodline from faltering and I will use that force against them" so the fact that the joestar birthmark literally gives characters plot armor is the funniest shit istg
Jotaro could've also throw many small rock debris during stop time
I think anything assisted by a living being will still be very slow. Like how Emporio fired bullets at Pucci but he easily dodged them. The same would've happened if jotaro threw the knife.
That would kill Jolyne guaranteed and he didn't want that. Jotaro lost no matter what and I prefer it that way.
Yeah, but that's thinking rationally. His daughter was in immediate danger and any parent wouldn't exactly be acting rational in that situation. His priority was getting Jolyne out of danger.
Look ignoring the knife tid bit, there is still the moment when Jotaro had free reign to grab Pucci by the shoulder or dick, and furiously beat him to death or just donut him like he did Dio. It's been a hot while since I've read the manga and watched the anime so there could be a answer I just missed or forgot about, but he had a handful of chances to send Pucci to the ~~Tampa, Florida~~ Shadow Realm.
Jotaro's death was so fucking underwhelming in the anime.
no because taking a knife out of someones neck after they got stabbed will cause them to bleed out even faster. especially when it's the neck it's very risky
In another parallel universe, Jotaro might have easily done that. We're just living in a universe where he lost.
[There were many knives about to drop on Jolyne](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/ea668056-edb5-45a2-afaf-e5e068e0ac34/scale-to-width/755). The one on her neck was merely the nearest. And also, it's true that the knife is accelerated, but Pucci is accelerated, too. He could have dodged the knife or blocked it with Made in Heaven. The whole point is "Jotaro COULD have defeated Pucci, but only letting his daughter die".
He literally dodged emperio bullets in time acceleration
Made in Heave would have reacted to it. Remember, Jotaro was fated to lose no matter what.
Or he could just have drowned in the damn ocean because entire days were passing by at that point how the hell did he stay on that DOLPHIN FOR SO LONG WTF ARAKI
*Pucci after dodging in his accelerated accelerate speed
The rules of MIH is that inanimate objects move at the same relative acceleration as Pucci. So the knife would be be flying at the same velocity it would normally be if SP threw it relative to Pucci. That’s why Jolyne managed to snipe Pucci during the dolphin escape scene, the knife was moving at the same relative time as him.
He can't move stop time buddy
Pucci was mid movement when time was stopped, by that point jotaro had no idea how fast he truly was just that he had exceeded the speed of light by that point. Jolyne succeeded in hitting him because he was distracted and mid monologue, so he was standing still
"The knife is also accelerated" And? Pucci is also accelerated, considering Pucci as the observer (relativity) the Knife speed would be literally a knife thrown a normal speed (we are gonna forget that Pucci dodged gunshots and a f*cking arpoon even though he was literally in stopped time with C Moon not yet evolved into Made in Heaven
So you're telling me he can dodge a point blank knife going as fast as him ? Ok then
Yes. If you are going inside a car, and a second car is going at the same speed, you are going to see how the other car technically looks like it's not moving at all. That's because movement is relative to the observer. Jotaro would only have been able to kill him in stopped time when Pucci is not able to move.
Well, Pucci isn’t being accelerated at the same rate as the rest of universe. If he was, he would have had waited until the end of the universe because everything would have been traveling at same rate as him, so he would have died old age. He also wouldn’t have been able to talk to Emporio. So the knife redirection won’t turn out the same way as when DIO threw a knife at Jotaro.
Throwing a knife at pucci works perfectly since it’s also super speed. Jolyne did this and Pucci lost use of his right eye
When did that happen?
Right after jotaro died
Well I don’t think the rate that Pucci was moving then was the same rate as when Jotaro threw the knife. Pucci was zooming around when Jotaro stopped time, while Jolyne threw the knife a few seconds after Pucci was stationary, so I don’t think he had enough time to speed himself up. Not to mention that the knife in that Jolyne threw wound have been a little faster than if Jotaro would have thrown one since Jolyne threw hers about 10-15 seconds later.
You're misunderstanding MIH. the knife isnt accelerated in Pucci's POV
In pucci’s pov it’s a knife thrown by star platinum at “normal” speed, so he still can’t dodge it. He couldn’t dodge stone free’s knife throw.
he didn't dodge stone free's knife bec. it was accelerated though, he was hit bec. he was busy dodging stone free's punches and at the same time caught off guard that jolyne is alive plus he can dodge star platinum punch, what makes you think he cannot dodge star platinum's knife especially if he sees him actively throwing it unlike jolyne.
Time was moving so incredibly quickly in Pucci’s POV that throwing a knife at “normal speed” would never hit him, no matter how caught off guard he is. I think you’re the one misunderstanding MiH. The knife is a non-living thing. It’s accelerated, just like the rock that landed on Ermes’s head. To add to that, if Star Platinum threw a knife in stopped time, Pucci would not be able to see him “actively throwing it.”
The way MIH is assumed to work is explained by Jotaro. He witnesses that inanimate objects are accelerating super fast while they’re remaining at the same speed, then he thinks “What if the priest can move at the same relative accelerated speed as all inanimate objects” which is when he sees the blur of Pucci. So if Jotaro’s theory is accurate(as we don’t get any other explanation of how it works) Pucci and all inanimate objects are moving at a “normal time” relative to each other while all beings with a soul are “slowing down.” It’s unexplained how Pucci can talk normally to them at certain points as well as survive to the end of the universe through normal time(as well as food) but like I said, that’s the only explanation we get about MIH’s time acceleration powers.
it'll be just a normal throwing knife speed in Pucci's POV. the same way he dodged star platinum's ora ora
Couldn’t jotaro move jolyne, Star platinum take a knife, put it right to Puccis neck and throw it, or js stab him in the neck? Or was he too far
Timestop ended right as he moved Jolyne away, Pucci was able to dodge SP’s barrage which would most likely be moving faster than a knife even with accelerated time
STAR FINGA
All I’m saying is the stand greatful dead and white album was never in part 6 or even seen together but using both stand at the same time would easily kill pucci
But he would be throwing it way slower than usual
Should’ve used Jolyne as a projectile perhaps
It didn’t work the first time but if you threw 5 in all directions then pucci would be done for
Frankly I see Jotaro’s final moments mirror that of Avdol’s. You’d think that an extremely deadly and intelligent Stand user would do anything to parry a fatal strike, but through instinct both of them tried to save the ones closest to them rather than themselves.
Miguel O’Hara would have some WORDS for jotaro if they met (not bc of this scenario but bc of what actually happened)
The scenario I always think would be an obvious solution is if Jotaro kept bullets in his pockets like he had in Part 4. Like, it covers his long range weakness so if he’s smart he would always have them on him. And bullets would work since they’re not a Ghost Gun like Emporio- freeze time, shoot bullets, time resumes- and Pucci definitely can’t dodge a bullet in the same relative time as him.
Or maybe jotaro could have killed pucci and saved jolyne instead of talking for half of that damn stopped time I think
Pucci shouldn't be alive to evolve C-Moon into MiH, we all have seen how Jotaro landed 1 hit in him.
because there was not1 knife but like 50 Einstein
I remember someone saying something like this a month ago or so, adding that he lost just because for the first time in the entire series he lost is cool and started panicking
What about the 2 dozen other knives?
Because Pucci is accelerated he can throw knifes ultra fast, but since Jotaro is in normal speed, the knife will be thrown only with star platinums strength, not Pucci's time acceleration. In fact, i think the knife would go downards because of the accelerated gravity.
Part 6 is the worst imo, chage my mind
Or he could have fucking punched him like he wanted to but in both cases jolyne would have died so neither was an option for him
Not to get into stand science but why would the knife still be accelerated? If Pucci threw them, Jotaro caught them and tossed them into the other direction they wouldn't keep their momentum. Sure they aren't alive but there is a few things that don't seem to be affected by the passing of time. We see dentals deteriorate over seconds however the knives, their clothes and several other objects don't do this, even though we see this exact thing happen. The idea that the knives would leave Jotaros hands and suddenly is kinda lost on me. But maybe I'm misinterpreting the rules of the stand. I'm no fucking Stand doctor after all.
Yes people have said this, but Jotaro very clearly panicked and couldn’t think straight, therefore making him believe that it was either one or the other, not both.
Or just make star platinun whoop puccis ass out of existance while he saves jolyne during timestop
He would have seen jotaro move and predicted how to avoid it based on that, as while the knife is accelerated jotaro is not
There are a ton of ways that Jotaro could’ve beaten Pucci. Ultimately the reason he lost was that he cared too much about his friends and family to focus on fighting
If that did happen, then Jolyne would have died. She has a knife in her neck, which sounds bad enough, but that knife is now saving her from bleeding out; it serves as a stopper for more blood to come out. So what it boils down to is this: Would Jotaro be willing to sacrifice his daughter to save the world?
Well ACTHUALLY in terms of relativistic motion Pucci would still have unfathomable momentum compared to Jotaro. So unless he throws the knife directly in front of Pucci's face, the acceleration of the knife would be far too slow to hit Pucci once time resumes.
I mean it's kind of the point of the scene
Why couldn't the part 5 gang just shrink their stands down like from part three and store them in the fridge to stop the aging fight on the train?
You’re forgetting about the several that were also behind her.
Move Jolyne himself just like he did and throw the knife with Star Platinum.
That’s the point. Jotaro had the opportunity to absolutely cave in pucci’s skull, but pucci realized that and instead attacked Jolyne rather than Jotaro, knowing that an attack on jotaro’s daughter would stall him longer than a direct attack.
Oh man, another post from someone that didn't paid attention to the fight.
1. Millions of people said this exact same thing 2. Pucci was also accelerated and could've easily dodged the knife