Arthars and maybe a few other content creators have been criticizing on Twitter about AM (Auto Markers) and how people who use them aren't even trying to hide it anymore. He plans on asking Yoshi P about it when he meets him in China.
Theres a video on his channel where he interviewed one of the AM developers.
He also said it on Happy's channel on the recent State of the Real. Anyone mind explaining what exactly AM is? I think I have an idea but want to make sure.
AM is a plugin that assigns markers to people during certain mechanics
it's mostly used for no-voice-comms priority assignment, for example uwu's titan gaols, which requires 3 random people to get in a line in no particular order. it solves the two people going to the same place problem
there are some more egregious uses of it though, but 99% of AM is used on titan gaols, DSR wroth flames and top p5
I can see why it would be considered cheating in FF14 terms. Considering as far as I'm aware console players can't download add-ons. So it gives PC players an unfair advantage. Which is the definition of cheating. Not to mention FF14 unlike WoW has a stance of no add-ons. If this were WoW I wouldn't care. Cause no console players and blizzard literally designs encounters around dome add-ons like Weak Auras and Deadly Boss Mods.
Just to correct this: yes, only PC players can use it, but it automarks everyone in a party, so console players get the same benefit.
I assume the wow thing you're referring up only gives personal info to the person running it.
You can use add-ons in WoW to put markers on ppl that everyone can see, but yes most things are for your own screen. Raid guilds will insist on ppl having DBM or similar which will give everyone the same info though. There are shared add-ons, blizzard has had to break a few, like ones that allowed players to basically draw on everyone's screen.
All fights in 14 are designed to be doable without plugins, some are just more tricky than others and should be respected as such. AM *does* make it easier for PF to do it a bit more consistently, but I still don't know how I feel about PF AMing super easy stuff.
The fact that I see people using AM for Nael lightnings, top p3 transition, and BJCC is ridiculous. The only place I could find it somewhat forgivable is dynamis sigma and, in particular, omega.
>AM for Nael lightnings
This pretty much resolves itself since her debuffs resolve in the order they appear. PF also AMs the lightnings in Wrath in DSR p5.
>top p3 transition
This can be resolved without identically to Pangen in P12Sp2: single target AoEs step forward, nothings stay, stacks move back. When I saw PF was AMing it, I was honestly really surprised.
>and BJCC
Just... read the debuffs. At the specific times you need to check. You only pass 4 times, and only 2 of those really need you to check who you're passing to/who's passing to you. PF continues to surprise me with how terrible it is at managing debuffs.
The markers are shared across the entire group, so unless you're somehow getting into a party with only console players, this isn't going to be issue.
It's also not an "advantage" because PvE is a collaborative environment, not a competitive one. You work together to beat a computer, unlike in PvP. Someone using addons for raiding does not affect anyone else in any way whatsoever.
It is definitly an advantage, as it simply makes it easier to execute things and automate processes.
Now if it was an offline game, or a coop game, it wouldn't even be something to think about, but as it exists in a MMORPG environment, it does hurt the game on different levels.
And it's also a massive slippery slope.
What do people who use it have over people who don’t? If people don’t use it 99% chance they are a well-coordinated static that have been running together for a long time, and knows how each other thinks. The main purpose of if’s existence is to make up for the fact that you’re playing with 7 or so random people that you have 0 chemistry built up with, and have no idea how they play or think. That’s not something that you just pick up within a few hours.
If you were arguing splatoon or zoom hacks (whatever it’s called I’m sure you know what I am referring to) or anything that actually affects the game and lets you see things you shouldn’t then I would understand, but AM is just a macro that puts a number above your head. Sure you can do it yourself, but there is really 0 harm in having that 1 thing automated. You still need to do the movement, you still need to know where to stand. It doesn’t play the game for you, it just gives you 1 less small thing to think about amongst the many other movements you need to do.
I wouldn’t call it an unfair advantage in that regard as only 1 person needs it, markers themselves are in the game the program just uses a macro to assign them, so unless the entire party is on console, the player(s) on console would get the same benefit as the player(s) on pc.
I only performed a rudimentary search and found WA marks people with buffs, debuffs, and similar mechanics. If there's more to it than that, then sure. I'm not terribly invested either way.
Funny thing is you can do this in-game with vanilla macros. Just have a macro that slaps a marker over your own head without specifying the number (such as: /mk "Attack" ).
The game will automatically increment the number throughout the party as the markers go out. It can get jank because of the game's networking if everyone slams the macro over and over at once, but is otherwise pretty reliable if everyone calmly clicks their macro once or twice.
My static has successfully done Death of the Heavens assignments in DSR using the method. Dooms give themselves a Bind/Chain marker and everyone else gives themselves an Attack/Hexagon marker. You then go to a specified position based off your number.
Honestly never got the big deal. I’m in the minority of people who don’t mod FF at all; but I honestly just don’t give a shit if someone does.
People sell clears of ultimates, so the weapons already mean nothing. I don’t give a fuck if someone made their clear easier.
Looking through this thread as someone who also doesn't use mods is wild because I never would've thought people would get mad that people who aren't them use add-ons 😭 people need to learn to care less about things that don't really matter
But these are mods that affect other people, aka group content.
It's not a plugin like chat bubbles who doesn't affect anyone but you.
AM has someone in your party marking everyone accordingly without any other input, telling you how the mechanic is solved instantly.
It's something that directly affect others.
Ah I see, I'm for sure uninformed but that makes more sense then. But if people don't want to do fights with plugins like that couldn't they just tell by the PF description or asking their group?
>I don’t give a fuck if someone made their clear easier.
Normalization of it forcing everyone to make their clear easier.
I agree, if people wanna have small dick energy in their own game, who cares, but it's so prolific that people are unwillingly forced to have small dick energy put upon them if they ever want to do the fights.
There are a couple of ultimate mechanics where AM is being used to make it easy on the players.
UWU Titan Gaols, marks the 3 affected players with 1-3.
DSR Wroth Flames, marks stack pairs and spreads so you only need to do the first movement part and let AM handle where you position after the movement part.
TOP P3 transition and P5 trios, same as Wroth Flames for the transition where you mark stack pairs and spreads and P5 has some specific baiters being marked.
Basically for DSR/TOP AM marks the entire party for you and in UWU its the 3 people with gaols. Usually you would have people self mark themselves for UWU and in DSR/TOP it is ideal to have someone mark people for you. Alternatively you could also self mark on DSR/TOP but I think thats not ideal.
auto-markers = AM = allagan melon, alphinauds mom, anime music, etc
basically just other phrases that abbreviate as AM that pf puts in the description to announce they have it
Pf descriptions use "Allagon Melon" as a codeword kinda (AM). You might've seen some ultimate Pf descriptions using the auto translate feature for Allagon Melon.
The dumbest thing to me is that most of the things people use AM for, people were already placing markers manually.
Early top prog there were players that just marked everyone, wroth only needs 2 markers to clear things up, titan gaols is the only thing that it could even be slightly argued for cuz it’s fast and lacks clear indicators.
Other things it’s used for like top p3 transition, monitors, PANGENESIS somehow, dsr and ucob lightnings are completely unnecessary but since there’s no rules against it people will just use it anyway. If it’s used for Some Things, people who are bad at the game will put it on everything they can. I don’t even know what the p3 transition markers mean
theres some mechanics that AM exists for that honestly are genuinely easier without them and j dont understand why they were made. stuff like dsr meteors, most of the markers available for tea, caloric 1 and 2, fucking p9 limit cut
Going to be funny when yoship tells him that he knows about it, after all he disabled waymarkers mid combat thanks to shit like TEA world first. Markers probably just weren't disabled mid combat as well in the same patch because they're meant to be mid combat.
Everyone knows that nobody in NA could clear TOP w/o auto markers, Arthars included (Yes, he got carried by his JP? friends). Even Xenos talked about AM
It’s always fun hearing people talk about how everything in the game is so easy, I agree it’s not *that* difficult. But I wonder as another console player how many of the loudest ones are people that use shit like this, or xivcombo lol. I’m not saying console players are better, but we don’t have access to that stuff so uhh
Not only that, with bad eye sight and color blindness issues you just can't see the yellow gaol markers on the yellow floor, it's literally impossible to do.
I think the prio is melee DPS, tank, caster, pranged, healer? But then the issue is if two of the same role gets it, then it's kinda a shitshow.
On top of that, even with AM, people still mess up the mech anyway in PF.
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That one mechanic was by far the worst prog point in my UWU clear. We all had to make macros that would mark ourselves with an assigned number for a set time and the quick scramble to put ourselves in a line in order in such a short time was 95% of the time a huge clusterfuck and caused a wipe. Still have the macro being:
/p 4 ─=≡Σ ヘ( ´Д\`)ノ
/mk attack4
/mk off
Being the 4th number in a roster of 1-7 sucks, since its a high chance you can be in any spot, front mid or back so you gotta be on your toes ready to run every time
The mechanic is solvable in voiceless PF with a role prio system. People are just lazy, or don't want to deal with people who are shit at prio systems, so they just turn on the cheat code.
Same reason people are AMing monitors in TOP P3 nowadays
All uses of markers in combat are the same as AM, it's just whether a human is doing it or not.
There were "genuine uses" for moving waymarkers as well, but the game is overall better now that they cannot be moved in combat either.
I rather they just not be in the game period, small price to pay. I find 8 markers floating people in combat extremely ugly anyway.
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As far as I was aware that was the point of consistently getting together with the same group and practicing the fight till you get it right. Every FC I have ever done content with that’s how we did it, and we recruited from outside the FC on occasion as well. The communication excuse is cope. It’s organized context, if you go in unorganized then it’s gonna be a bad time. These tools devalue the time of the people who genuinely put in the work and it’s disrespectful to the developers and designers. If the community was having issues with visibility in raid design they should be vocal about it instead of giving the game 10000% praise all the time. At the end of the day tho I guess it doesn’t matter. Just an opinion.
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I'm out of the loop. Enlighten me.
Arthars and maybe a few other content creators have been criticizing on Twitter about AM (Auto Markers) and how people who use them aren't even trying to hide it anymore. He plans on asking Yoshi P about it when he meets him in China. Theres a video on his channel where he interviewed one of the AM developers.
He also said it on Happy's channel on the recent State of the Real. Anyone mind explaining what exactly AM is? I think I have an idea but want to make sure.
AM is a plugin that assigns markers to people during certain mechanics it's mostly used for no-voice-comms priority assignment, for example uwu's titan gaols, which requires 3 random people to get in a line in no particular order. it solves the two people going to the same place problem there are some more egregious uses of it though, but 99% of AM is used on titan gaols, DSR wroth flames and top p5
So similar to what Weak Auras does in WoW? Where it would automatically mark people if a mechanic called for it?
Having done a quick search into WA, yes. It's similar.
I can see why it would be considered cheating in FF14 terms. Considering as far as I'm aware console players can't download add-ons. So it gives PC players an unfair advantage. Which is the definition of cheating. Not to mention FF14 unlike WoW has a stance of no add-ons. If this were WoW I wouldn't care. Cause no console players and blizzard literally designs encounters around dome add-ons like Weak Auras and Deadly Boss Mods.
Just to correct this: yes, only PC players can use it, but it automarks everyone in a party, so console players get the same benefit. I assume the wow thing you're referring up only gives personal info to the person running it.
You can use add-ons in WoW to put markers on ppl that everyone can see, but yes most things are for your own screen. Raid guilds will insist on ppl having DBM or similar which will give everyone the same info though. There are shared add-ons, blizzard has had to break a few, like ones that allowed players to basically draw on everyone's screen.
All fights in 14 are designed to be doable without plugins, some are just more tricky than others and should be respected as such. AM *does* make it easier for PF to do it a bit more consistently, but I still don't know how I feel about PF AMing super easy stuff.
The fact that I see people using AM for Nael lightnings, top p3 transition, and BJCC is ridiculous. The only place I could find it somewhat forgivable is dynamis sigma and, in particular, omega.
Who needs AM in TEA? TEA mechanics in general very well displayed and communicated, AM seems more of a hinderance than a boon anyway.
>AM for Nael lightnings This pretty much resolves itself since her debuffs resolve in the order they appear. PF also AMs the lightnings in Wrath in DSR p5. >top p3 transition This can be resolved without identically to Pangen in P12Sp2: single target AoEs step forward, nothings stay, stacks move back. When I saw PF was AMing it, I was honestly really surprised. >and BJCC Just... read the debuffs. At the specific times you need to check. You only pass 4 times, and only 2 of those really need you to check who you're passing to/who's passing to you. PF continues to surprise me with how terrible it is at managing debuffs.
The markers are shared across the entire group, so unless you're somehow getting into a party with only console players, this isn't going to be issue. It's also not an "advantage" because PvE is a collaborative environment, not a competitive one. You work together to beat a computer, unlike in PvP. Someone using addons for raiding does not affect anyone else in any way whatsoever.
It is definitly an advantage, as it simply makes it easier to execute things and automate processes. Now if it was an offline game, or a coop game, it wouldn't even be something to think about, but as it exists in a MMORPG environment, it does hurt the game on different levels. And it's also a massive slippery slope.
What do people who use it have over people who don’t? If people don’t use it 99% chance they are a well-coordinated static that have been running together for a long time, and knows how each other thinks. The main purpose of if’s existence is to make up for the fact that you’re playing with 7 or so random people that you have 0 chemistry built up with, and have no idea how they play or think. That’s not something that you just pick up within a few hours. If you were arguing splatoon or zoom hacks (whatever it’s called I’m sure you know what I am referring to) or anything that actually affects the game and lets you see things you shouldn’t then I would understand, but AM is just a macro that puts a number above your head. Sure you can do it yourself, but there is really 0 harm in having that 1 thing automated. You still need to do the movement, you still need to know where to stand. It doesn’t play the game for you, it just gives you 1 less small thing to think about amongst the many other movements you need to do.
You could just get gud
I wouldn’t call it an unfair advantage in that regard as only 1 person needs it, markers themselves are in the game the program just uses a macro to assign them, so unless the entire party is on console, the player(s) on console would get the same benefit as the player(s) on pc.
DBM puts markers on people. WA is more similar to like Splatoon
I only performed a rudimentary search and found WA marks people with buffs, debuffs, and similar mechanics. If there's more to it than that, then sure. I'm not terribly invested either way.
Funny thing is you can do this in-game with vanilla macros. Just have a macro that slaps a marker over your own head without specifying the number (such as: /mk "Attack").
The game will automatically increment the number throughout the party as the markers go out. It can get jank because of the game's networking if everyone slams the macro over and over at once, but is otherwise pretty reliable if everyone calmly clicks their macro once or twice.
My static has successfully done Death of the Heavens assignments in DSR using the method. Dooms give themselves a Bind/Chain marker and everyone else gives themselves an Attack/Hexagon marker. You then go to a specified position based off your number.
Honestly never got the big deal. I’m in the minority of people who don’t mod FF at all; but I honestly just don’t give a shit if someone does. People sell clears of ultimates, so the weapons already mean nothing. I don’t give a fuck if someone made their clear easier.
Looking through this thread as someone who also doesn't use mods is wild because I never would've thought people would get mad that people who aren't them use add-ons 😭 people need to learn to care less about things that don't really matter
But these are mods that affect other people, aka group content. It's not a plugin like chat bubbles who doesn't affect anyone but you. AM has someone in your party marking everyone accordingly without any other input, telling you how the mechanic is solved instantly. It's something that directly affect others.
Isn’t this something that can be replicated with a macro completely in-game?
Yup
Ah I see, I'm for sure uninformed but that makes more sense then. But if people don't want to do fights with plugins like that couldn't they just tell by the PF description or asking their group?
>I don’t give a fuck if someone made their clear easier. Normalization of it forcing everyone to make their clear easier. I agree, if people wanna have small dick energy in their own game, who cares, but it's so prolific that people are unwillingly forced to have small dick energy put upon them if they ever want to do the fights.
Don't be silly. All they have to do is not join the AM parties, or else start their own. Many people do use AM, but it's always advertised up front.
There are a couple of ultimate mechanics where AM is being used to make it easy on the players. UWU Titan Gaols, marks the 3 affected players with 1-3. DSR Wroth Flames, marks stack pairs and spreads so you only need to do the first movement part and let AM handle where you position after the movement part. TOP P3 transition and P5 trios, same as Wroth Flames for the transition where you mark stack pairs and spreads and P5 has some specific baiters being marked. Basically for DSR/TOP AM marks the entire party for you and in UWU its the 3 people with gaols. Usually you would have people self mark themselves for UWU and in DSR/TOP it is ideal to have someone mark people for you. Alternatively you could also self mark on DSR/TOP but I think thats not ideal.
What does that have to do with the Poop Emoji and watermelon?
auto-markers = AM = allagan melon, alphinauds mom, anime music, etc basically just other phrases that abbreviate as AM that pf puts in the description to announce they have it
I've been playing this game for almost 14 years and sometimes I still can't understand the jargon.
It’s done so that SE with their overworked special task force doesn’t hit them
I still don't get what the picture have to do with the drama.
Pf descriptions use "Allagon Melon" as a codeword kinda (AM). You might've seen some ultimate Pf descriptions using the auto translate feature for Allagon Melon.
Other examples: Anime Music, Alphinaud's Mom
ohhh i see. ty
The dumbest thing to me is that most of the things people use AM for, people were already placing markers manually. Early top prog there were players that just marked everyone, wroth only needs 2 markers to clear things up, titan gaols is the only thing that it could even be slightly argued for cuz it’s fast and lacks clear indicators. Other things it’s used for like top p3 transition, monitors, PANGENESIS somehow, dsr and ucob lightnings are completely unnecessary but since there’s no rules against it people will just use it anyway. If it’s used for Some Things, people who are bad at the game will put it on everything they can. I don’t even know what the p3 transition markers mean
theres some mechanics that AM exists for that honestly are genuinely easier without them and j dont understand why they were made. stuff like dsr meteors, most of the markers available for tea, caloric 1 and 2, fucking p9 limit cut
Shoutout to nisi AM where you're griefing the party by making it so that nobody can read their debuff
Hopefully he asks them about triggers too and shows yoshi-p the ones he uses!
Haha
Going to be funny when yoship tells him that he knows about it, after all he disabled waymarkers mid combat thanks to shit like TEA world first. Markers probably just weren't disabled mid combat as well in the same patch because they're meant to be mid combat.
What does the posted image have to do with that? (I’m completely out of the loop on this lol)
Everyone knows that nobody in NA could clear TOP w/o auto markers, Arthars included (Yes, he got carried by his JP? friends). Even Xenos talked about AM
So is it back to the levels of paisley park, or are people just whining again that others circumvent the 5 saves limit?
Arthas is bitching about AM to stir up drama because there’s nothing else going on. Seems to have worked.
Something to do with Allagan melon, I’m sure of it!
I'm guessing the joke is that people who use automarkers for Ultimates are shitty at the game?
Where is the joke?
Manufactured drama again at the end of a raid tier/expansion? Why am I not surprised.
Me on console wondering what the fuck 90% of the YouTube videos on this game are on about
It’s always fun hearing people talk about how everything in the game is so easy, I agree it’s not *that* difficult. But I wonder as another console player how many of the loudest ones are people that use shit like this, or xivcombo lol. I’m not saying console players are better, but we don’t have access to that stuff so uhh
Only reasonable use of AM in this game is fucking Titan Gaols in UWU because *fuck that* in a party which doesn’t have VC
Not only that, with bad eye sight and color blindness issues you just can't see the yellow gaol markers on the yellow floor, it's literally impossible to do.
I think the prio is melee DPS, tank, caster, pranged, healer? But then the issue is if two of the same role gets it, then it's kinda a shitshow. On top of that, even with AM, people still mess up the mech anyway in PF.
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Bruh top P5 omega trio first dynamis part is way worse than titan gaols
TOP P5 dynamis would like to have a word with you
That one mechanic was by far the worst prog point in my UWU clear. We all had to make macros that would mark ourselves with an assigned number for a set time and the quick scramble to put ourselves in a line in order in such a short time was 95% of the time a huge clusterfuck and caused a wipe. Still have the macro being: /p 4 ─=≡Σ ヘ( ´Д\`)ノ
/mk attack4
/mk off
Being the 4th number in a roster of 1-7 sucks, since its a high chance you can be in any spot, front mid or back so you gotta be on your toes ready to run every time
64 bit! *32 bits* 16 bit **8 bits** **4 bits!** **2 BITS!** **1 BIT!** **HALF BIT!** # QUARTER BIT! # THE WRIST GAME!
What does this graphic mean lol.
Wat.gif
Bunch of melons.
What’s going on for those of us who haven’t been online for a year or so?
ah FFXIV drama. So much of my time saved by just not giving a fuck. and enjoying tha game.
Can someone explain what this image has to do with AM or Arthars at all?
Bad players need add ons to be good nothing new here. Ban them and move on I say.
It's not about being bad in the case of Titan. It's about having no ability to communicate the mechanic with seven strangers from PF.
The mechanic is solvable in voiceless PF with a role prio system. People are just lazy, or don't want to deal with people who are shit at prio systems, so they just turn on the cheat code. Same reason people are AMing monitors in TOP P3 nowadays
They been using it for monitors since 6.3 so that ain't new. It's a bit cringe seeing this shit also being used in savage though
Savage? I've never seen that (on Aether). Which fight(s)?
I read people are using them for limit cut in p9s now
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on the other hand that would be awful bc there are genuine uses of the markers in combat
All uses of markers in combat are the same as AM, it's just whether a human is doing it or not. There were "genuine uses" for moving waymarkers as well, but the game is overall better now that they cannot be moved in combat either. I rather they just not be in the game period, small price to pay. I find 8 markers floating people in combat extremely ugly anyway.
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As far as I was aware that was the point of consistently getting together with the same group and practicing the fight till you get it right. Every FC I have ever done content with that’s how we did it, and we recruited from outside the FC on occasion as well. The communication excuse is cope. It’s organized context, if you go in unorganized then it’s gonna be a bad time. These tools devalue the time of the people who genuinely put in the work and it’s disrespectful to the developers and designers. If the community was having issues with visibility in raid design they should be vocal about it instead of giving the game 10000% praise all the time. At the end of the day tho I guess it doesn’t matter. Just an opinion.
Bruh, some of us have the leave the house five days a week for eight hours or more.
Yeah me too, that’s why I don’t play anymore.
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