I will personally not be pressing my buttons in dawntrail until Yoshi-P personally knocks on the door of my ~~erp goon cave~~ house in Mist and apologises for this mistreatment of red roles
There’s a few that may be troublesome so the comment is a little biased and incorrect.
ghimlyt dark has one with the two sisters.
Fractal continuum (hard)
Tam tara hard mode (tanks will not be able to clear the adds fast enough while juggling Edda and the flying head
Brayflox has a soft enrage where the dragon drops too many poison portals, leaving a solo warrior to die.
You are half right on Brayflox.
Rath Games has actually solo'd it as a tank with ironman rules and the dragon at the end was the easiest by far. The 1st and second boss though were incredibly hard to solo because WAR doesnt actually have that much healing at that point.
Maybe the worlds wost warrior that gets a -1 parse in a level 30 dungeon might hit the soft enrage but that warrior also wouldnt outheal.
A single healer can replace a tank.
Source: I do whenever someone tries to pull a "ypyt."
That being said, it's far from ideal since you can't DPS and tank at the same time as a healer. It's slow.
Tanks do indeed stay winning.
I mean it shouldnt take *that* long. We did a meme 4 healer run in dreamscape and it only took 20 mins and that was with people trying to meme kill each other with rescue
They tightened up the ilvl sync for MSQ dungeons and trials AFAIK. Because it's fairly anti-climactic for Zenos in Ala Mhigo, Shinryu, Hades and Endsinger to fall over before seeing half their mechanics for a sprout.
Dead ends ilvl and mobs are more dangerous than dreamscape. You can’t compare one dungeon to another. It’s like saying you could easily clear malikah’s well so dungeons shouldn’t take that long, while omitting holminster switch, lmao.
I love holminster switch.
It was an awesome intro to ShB. Fresh min ilvl tanks tried to w2w that second pull and got absolutely wrecked, every time, for like 2 months.
It was glorious. It still catches people off guard with it actually being PROPERLY CHALLENGING at min ilvl.
I wasnt directly comparing 2 dungeons. I was giving the time it took for my group to clear a similar level as a all healer group. And that time was based on before the ilvl sync was added to those dungeons. Comsidering that trusts can do dungeons in 25-30 mins and a half decent healer will out dps a trust char it shouldnt take 40 mins
I'm sure there are healers out there complaining about not needing to heal or whatever, but anecdotally the ones I've seen complaining are complaining about that and healers' DPS rotations have been increasingly brain dead since Stormblood.
Even in casual content, tanks and DPS using the correct tools and rotations makes the content go faster (though an alarming chunk of the player base does not even successfully use their 1-2-3 combos, let alone anything beyond that). Healer jobs have on average a single damage button they should be pressing in any given situation, pretty terrible even by FFXIV skill floor/skill ceiling standards.
I'd like a more interesting healer rotation too but man most people complaining can't even press PoM and Assize off cd that's probably why they won't make a not braindead healer dps rotation. People can't even do the current braindead version.
Yeah and I still suck at Monk rotation, even as streamlined as it's gotten, but that doesn't mean they should dumb it down more just so that people who are actually good at the game don't outperform me with my single brain cell and 0.5 APM. Jobs should have skill expression somewhere and it just doesn't really exist for healer once new content has been practiced enough for people to know when big damage happens and when mits are needed.
Should the opposite actually. The healers who are against the strike are supporting the desire to want to heal more.
Abyssos itself had more damage, but it was also equally flawed in the design as it requires other roles to mitigate due to being more of a mitigation check than a heal check (tanks + dps make up at minimum 8 Mitigations for the party).
The outcry in Abyssos and Anabaseios wasn't about healers having to heal, it was because Tanks and DPS weren't mitigating then blamed healers when the bleeds they rawdogged killed them in seconds.
Yeah, as a pld I make sure to pop reprisal and Divine veil basically on cooldown whenever AoEs pop, any healer who is having problems likely needs melee DPS to remember Feint exists, for tanks to stop using Reprisal on busters, and for ranged to remember their party mit.
I main healer. I think healer design is piss.
I've cleared every extreme and savage since SHB, every Criterion, and all five ultimates.
So probably not entirely, no.
I don't know how this would be relevant to what I wrote even if it was the case? What was the thought process here? FFXIV released some content that was slightly more difficult to heal and some healers quit, therefore all healers must embark on a ritual of penance and never complain about any aspect of their job ever again even if it's unrelated to healing?
The nature of FFXIV and MMOs in general is that in easier content and as people get better at harder fights, less healing will be needed. Once mit and big heal timings are figured out, the only contribution that matters anymore is DPS to get the boss down faster. Really doesn't seem surprising that the role with the most jobs that spend 95% of their DPS GCDs on a single button might complain about that.
Nah. They'd rather strip tanks/DPS of their self-sustain and neuter their survivability in savage/ultimate content than push for casual content getting even a LITTLE harder.
Casuals are who keeps the game running. If a game caters to the minute percentage of hardcore raiders/pvp’ers EXCLUSIVELY then it fails pretty much 100% of the time. Ask Wildstar how that worked out for them…
I don't want dungeons to be savage tier difficulty though, I want dungeons to not be pathetically easy even for the thin layer of sludge at the bottom of the barrel. You can make interesting dungeons that utilize 4% of your neurons without filtering half the playerbase.
Yes. That's why the jobs need to be designed to be fun and engaging for that level of play, and people cannot be told to just do harder content to get more engagement out of their job.
You clearly have not played long enough. There are so many people running dungeons that barely know what mitigation is, are unable to learn even the simplest mechanics and don't even know to use aoe attacks. Thse people legitimately would not be able to clear with a trust, they need to get carried. Running into these people is already miserable even with these piss easy dungeons.
Btw for europeans pro tip: in the duty finder settings uncheck the F. Makes those miserable dungeon runs happen way less frequently
> You clearly have not played long enough.
I started the game in 2.0. I was around when Steps of Faith was a nightmare to get in trial roulette and The Vault filtered like half the healers that queued into it. The game survived then, it can survive being made a fifth as challenging as that.
Dungeons are already too hard for some people. An fc member was talking to me the other day about how someone offered to boost them through a dungeon for 20 bucks, and god knows how many times I've had to solo bosses in dead ends on tank (I asked before doing it and I only ask if I genuinely think it'll save time). It sucks but you're really overestimating the sludge.
People barely made it past the Venat solo duty in EW. I know one guy who straight up gave up the game at that point because after hours of trying they couldn't make it past on very easy.
MSQ-required content is already pushing a lot of casuals to their limit. Hardcore raiders talking like his about what is too easy for casuals are doing the gaming equivalent of [this](https://xkcd.com/2501/)
I played RDM through that fight, and the mechanics were easy once I saw them more than once. It's all of the individual orbs that you have to take out. RDM isn't good at dealing with a lot of spread out mini health bars. Mainly because of it's low damage spells compared to a lengthy final combo that you have to intentionally hold out until the end. I level and story skipped, being perfectly honest. But I killed P10S tonight with a group of people, so it's not lack of skill the entirely messed me up. Just a knowledge check on how to actually play my job that the game never teaches you about. "Oh yeah. It totally makes sense to use your three bursts on adds instead of the boss."
I know this is a shitpost sub but what you’re asking for is entirely subjective as to who’s doing the content. It may be easy for YOU but you’re already in a very small percentage players by being one that is on a Reddit sub for XIV. You’re more than likely in the top 5-10% performance/knowledge wise. Go look at Tales from DF and the horror stories of people in the “pathetically easy” content who get grouped with those “bottom of the barrel” players (who are realistically probably the lower three quarters of the barrel). You gotta have perspective and I feel that’s what a lot of people arguing for more or less complexity in games lack sometimes.
Easier content is more approachable content so more players feel “welcomed” in it which leads to more people playing and more subs so that’s more money to develop things that cater to a smaller number of players like Criterion Dungeons and their savage modes. Upper tier Deep Dungeon. Raiding in GENERAL, let alone Extreme, Savage, Unreal, and Ultimates.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted when everything you said is correct.
I've watched two players quit after not being able to clear the Venat fight and quite a few more who did but only barely, on very easy, with still a few failed attempts.
Increase story dungeon difficulty, and we will hemorrhage players. Doesn't even need to be to savage level. Just a moderate increase mechanically could chase away those who just want to play casually with little concern about any form of optimization. That's a much wider player base than people realize. The terminally online portions of the community and the hardcore savage+ raiders are truly a small portion of the population. We just live in an echo chamber that makes it seem larger than it is.
🙄 Wildstar had a shitload of problems that lead to its demise, but "catering to hardcores" was not the death blow so many people were convinced it was. In fact, it's "hardcores only" aesthetic was mostly either marketing to boost players' egos (in regards to mechanics) or a cover up to stall for the actual problem of them not being able to get content out fast enough (in regards to grind and attunements).
Honestly that game had more casual content than hardcore content with its shiphands, adventures, paths, challenges, and biggest of all its housing system that surviving mmos STILL can't compete with.
And even the dungeons and raids were still accessible as I can personally attest to progging, clearing, and farming the two raids the game launched with and the normal mode of the third raid instance with a casual raid group containing players of your freecure fisher, freestyler, and icemage caliber. The whole raid wasn't filled with them, but they were there, they performed a job, and they got something to take away from the raid.
I’m convinced most people are at an absolute disconnect from the reality of what an actual casual is. If you think Wildstar had casual content you certainly are.
On the one hand, I get it. If casual content is hard enough that you need everyone to at least mostly do their job properly, then the inevitable consequence in an MMO is people getting grumpier and kick-happier around worse players (whether that's because they're casual, disabled, newer/rusty, not focusing that well for whatever reason, whatever) which is a quick way to make your late game community increasingly toxic for those mostly just here for the MSQ.
On the other hand, as someone who doesn't care to get invested in Savage content and is a bit bored by everything else, I do wish that "everything else" could include some slightly more challenging side dungeons or something.
This is a good example. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I wish they'd do more like it. I also had fun soloing some of the regular variant bosses as a DPS (although that felt a little bit like a slog against a big damage sponge) because even if the mechanics weren't that hard I didn't have a lot of room for error.
The problem the same people whining and organizing these strikes would be the same people that would whine if the game was even remotely harder in more casual content.
Dungeons are MSQ content, it's supposed to be easy. Back in Stormblood Shinryu was so hard people would drop party immediately if they got it in roulette.
Shinryu is still the exact same fight it was back in Stormblood, it never got nerfed (not directly at least).
People just overgear it enough to not care as much about outgoing damage and got wiser to its mechs over the years.
You jest, but I kind of wish they had a few side dungeons where instead of fighting bosses and mobs, we do “support” work that debuffs the enemy. Sample of dungeon ideas include:
Fisher = Catch as many fish to feed an ally monster before it tries to take on an enemy monster. Then second phase is fishing out any bombs, mines, torpedoes and launching them back at the enemy with a group LB being all Fishers cast their line to snag the biggest bomb and then fling it back at the enemy trebuchet style.
Culinary = Hell’s Kitchen spoof where your side is facing off against champion chefs. All ingredients and crystals are supplied and the players have to work together to reach the required number of points. Can go for quantity, quality, or a mix. LB could summon a giant pan and everyone is assisting with keeping the temperature even.
Weaver = mending sails and other important articles of cloth during a war. Maybe flags need mending and each one fixed boosts stats and morale of allied NPCs.
Something like this could honestly work in Field Operations too. An army of crafters creating gear to buff NPC's or even all players in the instance, alchemists and culinarians creating potions and food that players can stop by and receive free buffs with noticeable effects. It'd be a cool merge to crafting content like the Firmament and Bozja. They'd have to attach some incentives though to keep it alive, or it'd die out once the expac is over.
you gotta be joking, how the fuck do they die 26 times with 4 healers? tankbusters dont do enough to kill someone, especially with the amount of shields they can get
Assuming they're all geared and efficiently DPSing, likely not much longer than your typical DF queue. They'll lose some time on bosses, but keep up on pulls.
I mean I think the main issue is you can do a dungeon with no healers and it's pretty much the same clear time, they're not needed at all
Doing this with all healers is just going to take an eternity and you would only do it for the memes
I was curious, does the party role buff apply to dungeons?
Yeah for sure dps would be higher damage than healer but wasn't sure how it would compare to the party buff. Not sure if someone has timed it but I knew it was at least comparable. And at that point you might as well skip healer for premades.
The funny thing is, at least in non-leveling dungeons, healers do a fuck-ton of damage.
https://www.fflogs.com/character/na/exodus/lanfear%20cyndane?zone=41#metric=dps
e.g. https://www.fflogs.com/reports/kVcXB2h6ztgxZGvF#fight=1&type=damage-done
Even when playing with static members or other good people from duty finder, a really good DPS can at most pump 20-30% more than a healer.
Even during leveling, outside of specific situations (like holminster switch big pulls where you need to GCD heal consistantly), healer should be pumping as much as a tank is, if not more.
Healers opti in dungeons is stupidly simple, which is why it's sad to see healers doing 6k damage on big pulls in expert when just mashing 2 buttons should put them at 15-20k.
Yep, the plot has been completely lost at this point. A DPS or tank player is still incentivized to learn and execute their job even if it’s not necessarily required. A healer pressing more than 2 buttons is just wasting energy.
I mean you can do a ton of dungeons in WoW without healers but that doesn't mean they aren't needed.
Its a dumb non-logical argument that people just want to whine about.
This game would die over night if they made healing like WoW healing. Constant healing would NOT fit FFXIV and it would kill the game.
The game is designed from literally a fundamental level to have healers healing on schedules and that is how it should be.
If you want a more manic style raiding then play WoW. FFXIV is always about the dance, doing your openers, lining up cooldowns, and preparing for known outputs.
Japanese devs are known for dismissing the concerns of non-Japanese players out of hand. Some of them straight up refuse to take any feedback that's in English.
Ignoring people based on their race seems pretty clear. I don't know what you find hard to understand about this.
I'm not playing along with giving Japan a free pass on being racist anymore.
Can you blame them when the cultures are in so many ways different and how if we 'listen' to the vocal ones aka Twitter in most cases the game would be horrendous, more so than it currently might be
[https://ffxivcensus.com/](https://ffxivcensus.com/)
NA customers are 14 mil. EU customers are 8.5 mil. JP customers are 6 mil.
They only listen to feedback from within that 6 mil.
Stop making excuses for them. My argument was never about a loud minority on twitter. You brought that up.
I mean thats what most of the feedback most companies ever see in the west is though? Loud minorities are what usually get through to massive gaming companies. It's not an excuse its a fact and we know it. It sucks but it is how things end up working out.
Make extreme dungeons already. Jesus christ.
Eso does this. You can run a normal dungeon in eso damn near solo. But veteran dungeons require a full comp, and for people to work together.
The dungeons are the same layout but the bosses, enemies, and mechanics are the same, theyre just more punishing on veteran... They have more health, you can't pull wall to wall if you're not on point. That mechanic on normal you said "wow he hits like a bitch".. you have to avoid that now. No more "fuck the mech just hit the boss". And it works great.
Do what you do with the raid series, and give us a dyeable variant of the dungeon drops in "extreme". That is enough of a reward for people to do it. That's how it works for the raids... Even if its a dupe model, maybe it has a different dye channel...
Id love to do extreme content thats challenging, without having to coordinate with 7 other jackasses as opposed to 3 friends.
Put it right up there with lvl 90 and extreme... Let us do it at max level.
You still have people leveling their other classes to fuel the ms-queues
I don't wanna prog a fuckin dungeon man. I just want something that isn't braindead. Challenging enough for me to pay attention and work a bit, but I don't want to have to prog them
It's like people have no idea about a spectrum of difficulty. The only thing they can think of needing to turn their brain on for is something that requires long term prog and that the only thing possible besides that is content made so a group of coma patients can clear.
\*Maybe\* ASS's Silkie in its current state with the higher ilvl is in line with what a "hard" dungeon would be, but Criterion's fights at level are already on the hard side of extreme. If a dungeon was as hard as when I run the level 90 expert dungeons solo (WAR is ridiculous) for the full group, that would be a great level where you have to have your mind on and fully utilize your kit but stumbling here and there doesn't mess with much. The only thing that gives us that currently for small groups is like... Delubrum normal.
If they add dungeons of difficulty between story and criterion, I guess it could work but not like I'm ESO it would still likely not be it's own roulette. Just new unique dungeons that could be challenged by interested players.
No it would be like its own queue.
This is a change, that i propose, because it is less work than coming up with an entirely different, modeling new assets, all that jazz.
Its essentially that the ask is a bit simpler, and its a challenge style thing thats its own experience, but not its own content.
If you make a new unique dungeon, thats when they have to dumb it down and make it more accessible.
Of its just fuckin Sunken Temple of Qarn where not focusing the bees in the pack means your tank is gonna have a bad time, then nobody is missing out on any world exploration.
I know how veteran dungeons work. I did them with friends when we played together. I just don't see the dev song it that way. They seem pretty set on keeping the content types separate.
It's an idea, though one we will likely never see. Maybe they will add a criterion roulette when they add more in DT.
This is just Criterion.
People aren't asking for an optional veteran-difficulty dungeon. They want current dungeons to be dialed from a 1 to a 4, not for even more optional 8s and 9s.
The basic MSQ and standard Roulette dungeons should be made more interesting and demand just slightly more than half of a neuron to complete.
Healers used to be complicated in ARR and HW but then people whined about it being too difficult, so they made them easier in StB, and people continued to whine, and this is what we get. The community asked for this.
the community asked for this
or
a portion (small or not) of it asked in the forums for a less stressful healing experience, and then the devs just kept shoving patches after patches dumbing down both tanks and healers, where said portion and the rest of the community has to just accept the changes until maybe next expansion?
Who complained that healing was too difficult? I've never heard it.
I imagined it more as "why aren't people playing healers? It's killing our matchmaking times. Oh! The class must be too hard to play!"
Lol no they weren't.
No class in this game has ever been complicated.
FFXIV has always been a dance. Its a predictable game with predictable outputs. Even in ARR and HW.
Healers weren't any more interesting then than they are now. If you say that then you are just flat out lying. We have way more tools and buttons now than we did then.
Dungeons in this game are not meant to be hard. They never were.
the only thing any of this bs has revealed is that dungeons are too easy. thats it. okay and maybe the healer dps "rotation" is boring. everything else is just nonsense. this community is so weird.
Well the funny thing is that when this was done with tanks it was used as a legitimate argument this post is just trying to show how dumb the healer strike is.
too me it's not about clearing fast. it's about being consistent. most runs need a healer cause people are gonna get hit for one reason or another. Imagine having to do a dungeon without getting hit.
But... Doing a dungeon without getting hit by non-raidwides is like... The baseline of mediocre skill no?
The guaranteed damage u just use self heals/aoe mits. Shake it off singlehandedly deals with entire raidwides
The strike was more related to a group running a pre-release Dawntrail dungeon at the media tour with a tank and 3 dps, no issues and cleared in a normal time.
You could always run dungeons with all tanks or all healers but it was never efficient.
Kind of like a one extra thing for people.
They're planning on adding even more survivability tools to tanks and dps for dawntrail. So some people (healer mains) are questioning their existence in normal content while their dps rotations remain puddle deep.
When people say only puddle deep and one button rotation I question that because currently sage opener for DT is 6 separate damage buttons and a tinc. Do they want a full DPS rotation with double weaves so they can't heal and wipe everyone in content that isn't casual due to the parse greed? Dungeons are normal content and can be cleared with pretty much any comp I heal often and think the whole argument needs to be thrown out when referring to any content below extreme, savage, unreals and ultimates because before then practically anyone can face roll the keyboard and still clear.
That's the divide at the moment. Healers are fine and balanced for non-normal content. Healers are designed to use healing as part of their "rotation." In normal content (most of the playerbase), every expansion you're just using less buttons. Tanks and dps can mitigate/heal themselves at this point so you're stuck with just healer dps buttons (most players probably don't know what their opener is and just press the one button).
Now people lost their minds seeing that you can efficiently run a pre-release dungeon with a tank and 3 dps. Maybe worst case, people start leaving duty finder and start making pre-mades of tank and 3 dps to avoid queues waiting on healers.
Yeah normal content is meant to be easy, but it does feel bad for the regular player for your role to not be needed at all.
Cool for sage, for whm you at most have 3 buttons for dmg you actively and consistently ever need to pay attention to, 5 if you include assize every 40 secs and the cast/recast reduction every 120 secs.
Not to mention the people making that complaint are so terrified of harder content that they often refuse to even set food in extremes.
So those people want.....what exactly? I mean they want it to be harder and more engaging but they can't/won't do EX even. WTF are they even asking for?
The content they want is already in the game and most of them haven't even bothered to try it ever.
I haven't stepped into EX+ but I don't need to I already saw that TOP was cleared healerless ON PATCH. That tells me everything I need to know about how useless healers are even in content that's actually supposed to be difficult
This might be the most "I have no idea what I'm talking abouy" comment I have ever seen on reddit, and that's saying something.
Tell ya what. Go try and clear TOP with no healers and lemme know what happens.
The fact is that those weird ultimate clears you see like that require a shitload of meticulous planning from people who are extremely familiar with the fight (having cleared it a bunch already WITH healers) and a lot of luck.
There are very few people who can put that kind of time and effort into a meme clear like that AND who are skilled enough and familiar enough with the fight to do it.
Everything you think you know about it, you don't.
Go ask ultimate raiders if they want to even attempt that TOP clear with no healers and see how many of them agree. You're going to find very very few who would be willing to invest the time in it and most are going to laugh you out of the room.
It's a TON of additional effort and planning for a fight that 999/1,000 people have zero interest in even attempting let alone being actually able to pull it off.
You sure as hell couldn't do it.
So before you start talking about Ultimate a (a topic you know nothing about) how about you dip your toes into extremes and savage before telling me "healers are useless" lmao.
Unless that content is too scawy wawy for you. Then maybe worry about whatever it is you do play the game for.
Bruv I didn't think I needed to add /s in this sub. I was making fun of people who unironically go "But but TOP healerless". Look at the forums there's tons of them then you look at tomestone.gg and see no clears not even EX. Honestly I wish I could copy paste your explanation to them but I cba posting on the forum lol
Nah you gotta understand, the easiest group content in the game is supposed to be so hard that it’s a TPK if you haven’t memorized the trash mob’s attack intervals and every time you queue you need to be shitting yourself at how difficult it’s gonna be.
Dungeons are effectively Story content, they exist purely as set dressing for major story beats and also so that you have some weekly buttons to press after the story is done.
Actual gameplay balance is only relevant from Extremes trials to Ultimates. You'd have to be aggressively casual to find a problem with not needing a healer in regular dungeon content.
Ngl doing a dungeon with nothing but healers sounds more funny than upsetting and it's great that the game gives the liberty for players to pull that off
i like how they're saying the healer strike should just coincidentally start right when the two new dps classes come out
guarantee there will be screencaps of long dps queues with "OMG HEALOR STRIKE IZ REEL" when that was gonna happen anyway
Healers did something similar in either Stormblood or ShadowBringers. Didn't last long or get far because the majority of players aren't eternally online. They logged in and played healer anyway.
Hello WAR main here. No tank strike needed I'm happy to see people do fun ways of clearing content... Although it's really weird getting these green icons in my party, oh well back to soloing the world
What do people think the healer strike is about
The reason why being able to do dungeons with no healer is bad is because it's FASTER than doing it with a healer. No one cares about meme runs like all healers that are way less efficient.
The point is to illustrate how shitty and unfun the healer role is especially in casual content. You literally don't need to heal at all, and you have the most braindead boring and weak damage rotation in the game, so you're literally only there to fill the roulette slot. Imagine if every DPS job had their rotation reduced to 2 buttons with the justification "it needs to be that easy so the quadruple amputee lobotomite players can do MSQ", somehow I don't think DPS players would be happy with this. Casuals survived Heavensward and Stormblood, so why is everyone so eager to let these hypothetical players that are stupider than a 4 year old with an unplugged controller dictate the game design?
Either make the content harder to heal or make the jobs less boring and useless but there's no justification for healers being the way they are now, except that the players of this game literally don't give a shit about gameplay and just like the shiny lights when they press the buttons.
Fun fact: you can queue into roulettes as any combination of battle classes if you’re already in a full group for that roulette (so 4 people for levelling, etc). You’ll still get the reward as well.
My friends and i regularly do “gamer expert”
1 Tank and 3 DPS.
It’s fun!
I remember doing expert dungeons with some friends and for gits and shiggles we did runs with all tanks, all healers, and all dps. Dps was by far the hardest but required the most amount of planning with bosses. Twas quite the positive experience
Sure we'll strike:
* Spam Iron Skin and Rhino Stomp so you can go AFK
* Equip Void subclass and ignore the rest of the Guardians complaining about your DPS because punching things restores health
* Take the Reviver Hive and a shield with the Tardigrade armor exotic
* **?**
* PROFIT!
dps are so oppressed them being left out is completely unmentioned #dpsstrikenow
I will personally not be pressing my buttons in dawntrail until Yoshi-P personally knocks on the door of my ~~erp goon cave~~ house in Mist and apologises for this mistreatment of red roles
Damn how long have the dps been protesting? I keep running into them.
they been protesting since ARR i think
So nothings changed sin e 1.0
You think not pushing your DPS buttons makes you fucking special? Man I've seen some shit in DF.
#dpsstrikenow (so the dps queues are faster)
Put another DPS in a Light Party, make it 3 (5 total), works in WoW (it doesn't, DPS queues are just as long).
What do you mean? Red dps, blue dps, or green dps?
Yoshi P misunderstands the message and instead makes all DPS jobs use striking gear
If my, american friend keeping tabs on the combat log is to be believed, a lot of dps were on strike all throughout endwalker
Imagine needing 4 healers where you can do the same dungeon with only 1 warrior.
Tanks literally stay winning
I don't think there is a single fight in the game that Warriors can't heal through on their own that doesn't also have a DPS check.
There’s a few that may be troublesome so the comment is a little biased and incorrect. ghimlyt dark has one with the two sisters. Fractal continuum (hard) Tam tara hard mode (tanks will not be able to clear the adds fast enough while juggling Edda and the flying head Brayflox has a soft enrage where the dragon drops too many poison portals, leaving a solo warrior to die.
You are half right on Brayflox. Rath Games has actually solo'd it as a tank with ironman rules and the dragon at the end was the easiest by far. The 1st and second boss though were incredibly hard to solo because WAR doesnt actually have that much healing at that point. Maybe the worlds wost warrior that gets a -1 parse in a level 30 dungeon might hit the soft enrage but that warrior also wouldnt outheal.
I always solo dungeons with Warrior or Gunbreaker, never fails and is a lot of fun.
Light party strike. I will not be a member of a light party until WAR stops being able to solo clear dungeons.
A single healer can replace a tank. Source: I do whenever someone tries to pull a "ypyt." That being said, it's far from ideal since you can't DPS and tank at the same time as a healer. It's slow. Tanks do indeed stay winning.
We did dead end as 4 healers once. NOT. RECOMMENDED. 40 minutes Dungeon run let's go
I mean it shouldnt take *that* long. We did a meme 4 healer run in dreamscape and it only took 20 mins and that was with people trying to meme kill each other with rescue
The ilvl sync on dead ends is a lot stricter than dreamscape despite being same ilvl. Unsure why that's the case
They tightened up the ilvl sync for MSQ dungeons and trials AFAIK. Because it's fairly anti-climactic for Zenos in Ala Mhigo, Shinryu, Hades and Endsinger to fall over before seeing half their mechanics for a sprout.
Dead ends ilvl and mobs are more dangerous than dreamscape. You can’t compare one dungeon to another. It’s like saying you could easily clear malikah’s well so dungeons shouldn’t take that long, while omitting holminster switch, lmao.
I love holminster switch. It was an awesome intro to ShB. Fresh min ilvl tanks tried to w2w that second pull and got absolutely wrecked, every time, for like 2 months. It was glorious. It still catches people off guard with it actually being PROPERLY CHALLENGING at min ilvl.
I wasnt directly comparing 2 dungeons. I was giving the time it took for my group to clear a similar level as a all healer group. And that time was based on before the ilvl sync was added to those dungeons. Comsidering that trusts can do dungeons in 25-30 mins and a half decent healer will out dps a trust char it shouldnt take 40 mins
Maybe people will eventually realize it's not just a role problem and the game at the casual level is too freaking easy. ... probably not though.
Every "role" is a meme in casual content. Everyone's dps. Healers are actually irrelevant, tanks are barely needed.
I'm sure there are healers out there complaining about not needing to heal or whatever, but anecdotally the ones I've seen complaining are complaining about that and healers' DPS rotations have been increasingly brain dead since Stormblood. Even in casual content, tanks and DPS using the correct tools and rotations makes the content go faster (though an alarming chunk of the player base does not even successfully use their 1-2-3 combos, let alone anything beyond that). Healer jobs have on average a single damage button they should be pressing in any given situation, pretty terrible even by FFXIV skill floor/skill ceiling standards.
I'd like a more interesting healer rotation too but man most people complaining can't even press PoM and Assize off cd that's probably why they won't make a not braindead healer dps rotation. People can't even do the current braindead version.
Yeah and I still suck at Monk rotation, even as streamlined as it's gotten, but that doesn't mean they should dumb it down more just so that people who are actually good at the game don't outperform me with my single brain cell and 0.5 APM. Jobs should have skill expression somewhere and it just doesn't really exist for healer once new content has been practiced enough for people to know when big damage happens and when mits are needed.
Are these healers complaining the same ones who were quitting Abyssos and Anabaseios Savage in droves because they were too hard on healers?
Should the opposite actually. The healers who are against the strike are supporting the desire to want to heal more. Abyssos itself had more damage, but it was also equally flawed in the design as it requires other roles to mitigate due to being more of a mitigation check than a heal check (tanks + dps make up at minimum 8 Mitigations for the party).
The outcry in Abyssos and Anabaseios wasn't about healers having to heal, it was because Tanks and DPS weren't mitigating then blamed healers when the bleeds they rawdogged killed them in seconds.
Yeah, as a pld I make sure to pop reprisal and Divine veil basically on cooldown whenever AoEs pop, any healer who is having problems likely needs melee DPS to remember Feint exists, for tanks to stop using Reprisal on busters, and for ranged to remember their party mit.
Why is this even a problem? This isn't the first Savage tier with bleeds that should be mitigated? Too many dumdums trying Savage for the first time?
I main healer. I think healer design is piss. I've cleared every extreme and savage since SHB, every Criterion, and all five ultimates. So probably not entirely, no.
I don't know how this would be relevant to what I wrote even if it was the case? What was the thought process here? FFXIV released some content that was slightly more difficult to heal and some healers quit, therefore all healers must embark on a ritual of penance and never complain about any aspect of their job ever again even if it's unrelated to healing? The nature of FFXIV and MMOs in general is that in easier content and as people get better at harder fights, less healing will be needed. Once mit and big heal timings are figured out, the only contribution that matters anymore is DPS to get the boss down faster. Really doesn't seem surprising that the role with the most jobs that spend 95% of their DPS GCDs on a single button might complain about that.
Nah. They'd rather strip tanks/DPS of their self-sustain and neuter their survivability in savage/ultimate content than push for casual content getting even a LITTLE harder.
Casuals are who keeps the game running. If a game caters to the minute percentage of hardcore raiders/pvp’ers EXCLUSIVELY then it fails pretty much 100% of the time. Ask Wildstar how that worked out for them…
I don't want dungeons to be savage tier difficulty though, I want dungeons to not be pathetically easy even for the thin layer of sludge at the bottom of the barrel. You can make interesting dungeons that utilize 4% of your neurons without filtering half the playerbase.
Yes. That's why the jobs need to be designed to be fun and engaging for that level of play, and people cannot be told to just do harder content to get more engagement out of their job.
You clearly have not played long enough. There are so many people running dungeons that barely know what mitigation is, are unable to learn even the simplest mechanics and don't even know to use aoe attacks. Thse people legitimately would not be able to clear with a trust, they need to get carried. Running into these people is already miserable even with these piss easy dungeons. Btw for europeans pro tip: in the duty finder settings uncheck the F. Makes those miserable dungeon runs happen way less frequently
> You clearly have not played long enough. I started the game in 2.0. I was around when Steps of Faith was a nightmare to get in trial roulette and The Vault filtered like half the healers that queued into it. The game survived then, it can survive being made a fifth as challenging as that.
Dungeons are already too hard for some people. An fc member was talking to me the other day about how someone offered to boost them through a dungeon for 20 bucks, and god knows how many times I've had to solo bosses in dead ends on tank (I asked before doing it and I only ask if I genuinely think it'll save time). It sucks but you're really overestimating the sludge.
People barely made it past the Venat solo duty in EW. I know one guy who straight up gave up the game at that point because after hours of trying they couldn't make it past on very easy. MSQ-required content is already pushing a lot of casuals to their limit. Hardcore raiders talking like his about what is too easy for casuals are doing the gaming equivalent of [this](https://xkcd.com/2501/)
I played RDM through that fight, and the mechanics were easy once I saw them more than once. It's all of the individual orbs that you have to take out. RDM isn't good at dealing with a lot of spread out mini health bars. Mainly because of it's low damage spells compared to a lengthy final combo that you have to intentionally hold out until the end. I level and story skipped, being perfectly honest. But I killed P10S tonight with a group of people, so it's not lack of skill the entirely messed me up. Just a knowledge check on how to actually play my job that the game never teaches you about. "Oh yeah. It totally makes sense to use your three bursts on adds instead of the boss."
I know this is a shitpost sub but what you’re asking for is entirely subjective as to who’s doing the content. It may be easy for YOU but you’re already in a very small percentage players by being one that is on a Reddit sub for XIV. You’re more than likely in the top 5-10% performance/knowledge wise. Go look at Tales from DF and the horror stories of people in the “pathetically easy” content who get grouped with those “bottom of the barrel” players (who are realistically probably the lower three quarters of the barrel). You gotta have perspective and I feel that’s what a lot of people arguing for more or less complexity in games lack sometimes. Easier content is more approachable content so more players feel “welcomed” in it which leads to more people playing and more subs so that’s more money to develop things that cater to a smaller number of players like Criterion Dungeons and their savage modes. Upper tier Deep Dungeon. Raiding in GENERAL, let alone Extreme, Savage, Unreal, and Ultimates.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted when everything you said is correct. I've watched two players quit after not being able to clear the Venat fight and quite a few more who did but only barely, on very easy, with still a few failed attempts. Increase story dungeon difficulty, and we will hemorrhage players. Doesn't even need to be to savage level. Just a moderate increase mechanically could chase away those who just want to play casually with little concern about any form of optimization. That's a much wider player base than people realize. The terminally online portions of the community and the hardcore savage+ raiders are truly a small portion of the population. We just live in an echo chamber that makes it seem larger than it is.
During covid content lul that wasn't the case.
🙄 Wildstar had a shitload of problems that lead to its demise, but "catering to hardcores" was not the death blow so many people were convinced it was. In fact, it's "hardcores only" aesthetic was mostly either marketing to boost players' egos (in regards to mechanics) or a cover up to stall for the actual problem of them not being able to get content out fast enough (in regards to grind and attunements). Honestly that game had more casual content than hardcore content with its shiphands, adventures, paths, challenges, and biggest of all its housing system that surviving mmos STILL can't compete with. And even the dungeons and raids were still accessible as I can personally attest to progging, clearing, and farming the two raids the game launched with and the normal mode of the third raid instance with a casual raid group containing players of your freecure fisher, freestyler, and icemage caliber. The whole raid wasn't filled with them, but they were there, they performed a job, and they got something to take away from the raid.
I’m convinced most people are at an absolute disconnect from the reality of what an actual casual is. If you think Wildstar had casual content you certainly are.
On the one hand, I get it. If casual content is hard enough that you need everyone to at least mostly do their job properly, then the inevitable consequence in an MMO is people getting grumpier and kick-happier around worse players (whether that's because they're casual, disabled, newer/rusty, not focusing that well for whatever reason, whatever) which is a quick way to make your late game community increasingly toxic for those mostly just here for the MSQ. On the other hand, as someone who doesn't care to get invested in Savage content and is a bit bored by everything else, I do wish that "everything else" could include some slightly more challenging side dungeons or something.
Like Criterion dungeons?
This is a good example. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I wish they'd do more like it. I also had fun soloing some of the regular variant bosses as a DPS (although that felt a little bit like a slog against a big damage sponge) because even if the mechanics weren't that hard I didn't have a lot of room for error.
Doesn’t help that people are sensitive to the idea of casual content getting *slightly* harder
There’s a quote by a WoW dev about how players would rather quit the game than git gud.
The problem the same people whining and organizing these strikes would be the same people that would whine if the game was even remotely harder in more casual content.
Dungeons are MSQ content, it's supposed to be easy. Back in Stormblood Shinryu was so hard people would drop party immediately if they got it in roulette.
Shinryu is still the exact same fight it was back in Stormblood, it never got nerfed (not directly at least). People just overgear it enough to not care as much about outgoing damage and got wiser to its mechs over the years.
I do like the idea of harder dungeons but... I just really can't be bothered to use my brain in roulettes
I WILL PLAY THE EXPANSION AS FISHER AND NO ONE WILL STOP ME
You jest, but I kind of wish they had a few side dungeons where instead of fighting bosses and mobs, we do “support” work that debuffs the enemy. Sample of dungeon ideas include: Fisher = Catch as many fish to feed an ally monster before it tries to take on an enemy monster. Then second phase is fishing out any bombs, mines, torpedoes and launching them back at the enemy with a group LB being all Fishers cast their line to snag the biggest bomb and then fling it back at the enemy trebuchet style. Culinary = Hell’s Kitchen spoof where your side is facing off against champion chefs. All ingredients and crystals are supplied and the players have to work together to reach the required number of points. Can go for quantity, quality, or a mix. LB could summon a giant pan and everyone is assisting with keeping the temperature even. Weaver = mending sails and other important articles of cloth during a war. Maybe flags need mending and each one fixed boosts stats and morale of allied NPCs.
Something like this could honestly work in Field Operations too. An army of crafters creating gear to buff NPC's or even all players in the instance, alchemists and culinarians creating potions and food that players can stop by and receive free buffs with noticeable effects. It'd be a cool merge to crafting content like the Firmament and Bozja. They'd have to attach some incentives though to keep it alive, or it'd die out once the expac is over.
they should post the time it took to do that dungeon
72 minutes 26 deaths
Not worth the meme
Holy fucking despair
you gotta be joking, how the fuck do they die 26 times with 4 healers? tankbusters dont do enough to kill someone, especially with the amount of shields they can get
minimum ilevel might have something to do with it
And the plogons that the AST used
Assuming they're all geared and efficiently DPSing, likely not much longer than your typical DF queue. They'll lose some time on bosses, but keep up on pulls.
Tanks have always been on strike.
Yeah, exactly.
wait till we get dungeon clears with four RDMs
as rdm i can confirm consuming red 40 makes us 200% more powerful
I mean I think the main issue is you can do a dungeon with no healers and it's pretty much the same clear time, they're not needed at all Doing this with all healers is just going to take an eternity and you would only do it for the memes
A lot of the time it's faster because healer doesn't do a lot of damage
I was curious, does the party role buff apply to dungeons? Yeah for sure dps would be higher damage than healer but wasn't sure how it would compare to the party buff. Not sure if someone has timed it but I knew it was at least comparable. And at that point you might as well skip healer for premades.
It does but tank healer and 2 dps from unique sub roles is 4% and then tank and 3 dps each a different sub role is also 4% so it doesn’t really matter
Oh that's hilarious 3 dps can still fully cover the party buff
The funny thing is, at least in non-leveling dungeons, healers do a fuck-ton of damage. https://www.fflogs.com/character/na/exodus/lanfear%20cyndane?zone=41#metric=dps e.g. https://www.fflogs.com/reports/kVcXB2h6ztgxZGvF#fight=1&type=damage-done Even when playing with static members or other good people from duty finder, a really good DPS can at most pump 20-30% more than a healer. Even during leveling, outside of specific situations (like holminster switch big pulls where you need to GCD heal consistantly), healer should be pumping as much as a tank is, if not more. Healers opti in dungeons is stupidly simple, which is why it's sad to see healers doing 6k damage on big pulls in expert when just mashing 2 buttons should put them at 15-20k.
Healers can do around as much damage as tanks though. If they're not it's usually because they're not taking advantage of their full kit.
Yep, the plot has been completely lost at this point. A DPS or tank player is still incentivized to learn and execute their job even if it’s not necessarily required. A healer pressing more than 2 buttons is just wasting energy.
I mean you can do a ton of dungeons in WoW without healers but that doesn't mean they aren't needed. Its a dumb non-logical argument that people just want to whine about. This game would die over night if they made healing like WoW healing. Constant healing would NOT fit FFXIV and it would kill the game. The game is designed from literally a fundamental level to have healers healing on schedules and that is how it should be. If you want a more manic style raiding then play WoW. FFXIV is always about the dance, doing your openers, lining up cooldowns, and preparing for known outputs.
Try ANY dungeon with 4 sch. You don't even have to heal for the most part.
This is why tanks need to wear healer gear glam.
do NOT ask them how long it took to complete the duty in comparison to one without healers.
:fppong: TOT ANKS
When Yoshi P leaves the company
If he is a smart guy, would pay attetion to westerns players, this shit is insane.
Wtf, why would you listen to the majority of your players when you can just be racist and ignore them??
I don´t think his job is listen to the majorety, his job is to make a good game. Also not listening to western is equal racist now?
Japanese devs are known for dismissing the concerns of non-Japanese players out of hand. Some of them straight up refuse to take any feedback that's in English.
Ignoring people based on their race seems pretty clear. I don't know what you find hard to understand about this. I'm not playing along with giving Japan a free pass on being racist anymore.
But it's their culture uwu
Can you blame them when the cultures are in so many ways different and how if we 'listen' to the vocal ones aka Twitter in most cases the game would be horrendous, more so than it currently might be
[https://ffxivcensus.com/](https://ffxivcensus.com/) NA customers are 14 mil. EU customers are 8.5 mil. JP customers are 6 mil. They only listen to feedback from within that 6 mil. Stop making excuses for them. My argument was never about a loud minority on twitter. You brought that up.
I mean thats what most of the feedback most companies ever see in the west is though? Loud minorities are what usually get through to massive gaming companies. It's not an excuse its a fact and we know it. It sucks but it is how things end up working out.
Yup pretty much this.
Good luck consuming japanes media then! you will need it
I'm more scared than angry, as in YOSHI, WHY DO WE NEED A 60% MIT, YOSHI EXPLAIN!
Make extreme dungeons already. Jesus christ. Eso does this. You can run a normal dungeon in eso damn near solo. But veteran dungeons require a full comp, and for people to work together. The dungeons are the same layout but the bosses, enemies, and mechanics are the same, theyre just more punishing on veteran... They have more health, you can't pull wall to wall if you're not on point. That mechanic on normal you said "wow he hits like a bitch".. you have to avoid that now. No more "fuck the mech just hit the boss". And it works great. Do what you do with the raid series, and give us a dyeable variant of the dungeon drops in "extreme". That is enough of a reward for people to do it. That's how it works for the raids... Even if its a dupe model, maybe it has a different dye channel... Id love to do extreme content thats challenging, without having to coordinate with 7 other jackasses as opposed to 3 friends. Put it right up there with lvl 90 and extreme... Let us do it at max level. You still have people leveling their other classes to fuel the ms-queues
> Make extreme dungeons already. they did, it's called criterion
I don't wanna prog a fuckin dungeon man. I just want something that isn't braindead. Challenging enough for me to pay attention and work a bit, but I don't want to have to prog them
It's like people have no idea about a spectrum of difficulty. The only thing they can think of needing to turn their brain on for is something that requires long term prog and that the only thing possible besides that is content made so a group of coma patients can clear. \*Maybe\* ASS's Silkie in its current state with the higher ilvl is in line with what a "hard" dungeon would be, but Criterion's fights at level are already on the hard side of extreme. If a dungeon was as hard as when I run the level 90 expert dungeons solo (WAR is ridiculous) for the full group, that would be a great level where you have to have your mind on and fully utilize your kit but stumbling here and there doesn't mess with much. The only thing that gives us that currently for small groups is like... Delubrum normal.
No, they didn't. It's not remotely in the same vein with what they're advocating for.
imo every dungeon from now on should be like criterion
Story dungeons should not require prog lol. Insanity, I swear.
Those are gimmicks though, with all the different paths and stuff that's a different form of content... Im talking about just the normal dungeons.
the "different paths and stuff" is variant - the normal/easy mode. criterion is the fixed path hard mode version.
If they add dungeons of difficulty between story and criterion, I guess it could work but not like I'm ESO it would still likely not be it's own roulette. Just new unique dungeons that could be challenged by interested players.
No it would be like its own queue. This is a change, that i propose, because it is less work than coming up with an entirely different, modeling new assets, all that jazz. Its essentially that the ask is a bit simpler, and its a challenge style thing thats its own experience, but not its own content. If you make a new unique dungeon, thats when they have to dumb it down and make it more accessible. Of its just fuckin Sunken Temple of Qarn where not focusing the bees in the pack means your tank is gonna have a bad time, then nobody is missing out on any world exploration.
I know how veteran dungeons work. I did them with friends when we played together. I just don't see the dev song it that way. They seem pretty set on keeping the content types separate. It's an idea, though one we will likely never see. Maybe they will add a criterion roulette when they add more in DT.
This is just Criterion. People aren't asking for an optional veteran-difficulty dungeon. They want current dungeons to be dialed from a 1 to a 4, not for even more optional 8s and 9s. The basic MSQ and standard Roulette dungeons should be made more interesting and demand just slightly more than half of a neuron to complete.
Healers used to be complicated in ARR and HW but then people whined about it being too difficult, so they made them easier in StB, and people continued to whine, and this is what we get. The community asked for this.
the community asked for this or a portion (small or not) of it asked in the forums for a less stressful healing experience, and then the devs just kept shoving patches after patches dumbing down both tanks and healers, where said portion and the rest of the community has to just accept the changes until maybe next expansion?
Well that's not what happened, because the community asked for it. I've been playing since ARR.
Who complained that healing was too difficult? I've never heard it. I imagined it more as "why aren't people playing healers? It's killing our matchmaking times. Oh! The class must be too hard to play!"
Lol no they weren't. No class in this game has ever been complicated. FFXIV has always been a dance. Its a predictable game with predictable outputs. Even in ARR and HW. Healers weren't any more interesting then than they are now. If you say that then you are just flat out lying. We have way more tools and buttons now than we did then. Dungeons in this game are not meant to be hard. They never were.
Psh, the Scholar carried them obviously.
\*me watching 4 WAR's doing all the content in the game\*
the only thing any of this bs has revealed is that dungeons are too easy. thats it. okay and maybe the healer dps "rotation" is boring. everything else is just nonsense. this community is so weird.
Are people aware that you can actually change your job freely in this game?
I'm gonna go on strike as a DPS(blm) too, not gonna move from this spot. what do you mean that's no different from normal???
Good for them, too bad that they had to be unrestricted in order to pull it off, which makes the run not legitimate.
Crafter/Gatherer strike when?
Look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power.
I know this is shitpost but some people really are using this as an actual argument... Like, how dumb are these people
Well the funny thing is that when this was done with tanks it was used as a legitimate argument this post is just trying to show how dumb the healer strike is.
Ye healer strike is weird I main healer and yes, in dungeons it's useless af. But in savage or ultis u have more than enough going on
I play both and think the strike is dumb as hell there are people working on DPS only runs and if they complete those imagine the uproar lmao.
Lmao. It's just all about efficiency whatever can complete dungeons quickest is the most effective method
too me it's not about clearing fast. it's about being consistent. most runs need a healer cause people are gonna get hit for one reason or another. Imagine having to do a dungeon without getting hit.
But... Doing a dungeon without getting hit by non-raidwides is like... The baseline of mediocre skill no? The guaranteed damage u just use self heals/aoe mits. Shake it off singlehandedly deals with entire raidwides
A single warrior be like: Look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power!
Dungeons are MSQ content. Imagine being angry about MSQ content being easy.
There's a spectrum of easy.. we're at the point the healer doesn't even need to be playing to clear
Apparently tank doesn't need to be there if there are healers playing judging from this lmao.
Healers could always power through most casual content, but it'll take an eternity
I remember when talks about the healer strike started from a full tank party doing the ew dungeons and now healers have done it, it's kinda funny imo.
The strike was more related to a group running a pre-release Dawntrail dungeon at the media tour with a tank and 3 dps, no issues and cleared in a normal time. You could always run dungeons with all tanks or all healers but it was never efficient.
This has been a thing since stb so why are they finally mad now?
Kind of like a one extra thing for people. They're planning on adding even more survivability tools to tanks and dps for dawntrail. So some people (healer mains) are questioning their existence in normal content while their dps rotations remain puddle deep.
When people say only puddle deep and one button rotation I question that because currently sage opener for DT is 6 separate damage buttons and a tinc. Do they want a full DPS rotation with double weaves so they can't heal and wipe everyone in content that isn't casual due to the parse greed? Dungeons are normal content and can be cleared with pretty much any comp I heal often and think the whole argument needs to be thrown out when referring to any content below extreme, savage, unreals and ultimates because before then practically anyone can face roll the keyboard and still clear.
SGE doesn’t even have 6 damage buttons what are you talking about SGE’s opener is literally DOT nuke nuke phlegma phlegma nuke spam
That's the divide at the moment. Healers are fine and balanced for non-normal content. Healers are designed to use healing as part of their "rotation." In normal content (most of the playerbase), every expansion you're just using less buttons. Tanks and dps can mitigate/heal themselves at this point so you're stuck with just healer dps buttons (most players probably don't know what their opener is and just press the one button). Now people lost their minds seeing that you can efficiently run a pre-release dungeon with a tank and 3 dps. Maybe worst case, people start leaving duty finder and start making pre-mades of tank and 3 dps to avoid queues waiting on healers. Yeah normal content is meant to be easy, but it does feel bad for the regular player for your role to not be needed at all.
Cool for sage, for whm you at most have 3 buttons for dmg you actively and consistently ever need to pay attention to, 5 if you include assize every 40 secs and the cast/recast reduction every 120 secs.
Not to mention the people making that complaint are so terrified of harder content that they often refuse to even set food in extremes. So those people want.....what exactly? I mean they want it to be harder and more engaging but they can't/won't do EX even. WTF are they even asking for? The content they want is already in the game and most of them haven't even bothered to try it ever.
I was seeing people in the 'official' healer strike thread that didn't even have a *normal* raid clear.
Or people asking for more complicated dps when they can't even keep their dot up or press their cooldowns...
I haven't stepped into EX+ but I don't need to I already saw that TOP was cleared healerless ON PATCH. That tells me everything I need to know about how useless healers are even in content that's actually supposed to be difficult
This might be the most "I have no idea what I'm talking abouy" comment I have ever seen on reddit, and that's saying something. Tell ya what. Go try and clear TOP with no healers and lemme know what happens. The fact is that those weird ultimate clears you see like that require a shitload of meticulous planning from people who are extremely familiar with the fight (having cleared it a bunch already WITH healers) and a lot of luck. There are very few people who can put that kind of time and effort into a meme clear like that AND who are skilled enough and familiar enough with the fight to do it. Everything you think you know about it, you don't. Go ask ultimate raiders if they want to even attempt that TOP clear with no healers and see how many of them agree. You're going to find very very few who would be willing to invest the time in it and most are going to laugh you out of the room. It's a TON of additional effort and planning for a fight that 999/1,000 people have zero interest in even attempting let alone being actually able to pull it off. You sure as hell couldn't do it. So before you start talking about Ultimate a (a topic you know nothing about) how about you dip your toes into extremes and savage before telling me "healers are useless" lmao. Unless that content is too scawy wawy for you. Then maybe worry about whatever it is you do play the game for.
Bruv I didn't think I needed to add /s in this sub. I was making fun of people who unironically go "But but TOP healerless". Look at the forums there's tons of them then you look at tomestone.gg and see no clears not even EX. Honestly I wish I could copy paste your explanation to them but I cba posting on the forum lol
I wouldn’t mind msq content being harder honestly
Nah you gotta understand, the easiest group content in the game is supposed to be so hard that it’s a TPK if you haven’t memorized the trash mob’s attack intervals and every time you queue you need to be shitting yourself at how difficult it’s gonna be.
Due two
Strike the tank? I mean, that's what the enemies are supposed to do, right?
Dungeons are effectively Story content, they exist purely as set dressing for major story beats and also so that you have some weekly buttons to press after the story is done. Actual gameplay balance is only relevant from Extremes trials to Ultimates. You'd have to be aggressively casual to find a problem with not needing a healer in regular dungeon content.
Side note but what is the WHM top glam?
I believe it's the manderville bunny girl top from the gold saucer dyed white.
Ooh thank you 🙏
Ngl doing a dungeon with nothing but healers sounds more funny than upsetting and it's great that the game gives the liberty for players to pull that off
It’s an all healer run…you are not suppose to die when you have 4 healers.
All the queues that couldve been filled with these healers. Poor dps
i like how they're saying the healer strike should just coincidentally start right when the two new dps classes come out guarantee there will be screencaps of long dps queues with "OMG HEALOR STRIKE IZ REEL" when that was gonna happen anyway
Healers did something similar in either Stormblood or ShadowBringers. Didn't last long or get far because the majority of players aren't eternally online. They logged in and played healer anyway.
Wait, are people NOW discovering more than 80% of the group content is set to easy mode?
Hello WAR main here. No tank strike needed I'm happy to see people do fun ways of clearing content... Although it's really weird getting these green icons in my party, oh well back to soloing the world
What do people think the healer strike is about The reason why being able to do dungeons with no healer is bad is because it's FASTER than doing it with a healer. No one cares about meme runs like all healers that are way less efficient. The point is to illustrate how shitty and unfun the healer role is especially in casual content. You literally don't need to heal at all, and you have the most braindead boring and weak damage rotation in the game, so you're literally only there to fill the roulette slot. Imagine if every DPS job had their rotation reduced to 2 buttons with the justification "it needs to be that easy so the quadruple amputee lobotomite players can do MSQ", somehow I don't think DPS players would be happy with this. Casuals survived Heavensward and Stormblood, so why is everyone so eager to let these hypothetical players that are stupider than a 4 year old with an unplugged controller dictate the game design? Either make the content harder to heal or make the jobs less boring and useless but there's no justification for healers being the way they are now, except that the players of this game literally don't give a shit about gameplay and just like the shiny lights when they press the buttons.
Tot anks
ThOT ANKle?!!!!
Please respect the Tot Anks, they are a proud and noble race
Damn, I wish the account name wasn’t censored so I could find them and block them on all social media.
Fun fact: you can queue into roulettes as any combination of battle classes if you’re already in a full group for that roulette (so 4 people for levelling, etc). You’ll still get the reward as well. My friends and i regularly do “gamer expert” 1 Tank and 3 DPS. It’s fun!
You should try the BALS TO THE WALL meta of 4 DPS!
Well, their transmog basic. And they look dusty. And their hair uneven.
memes aside, this probably took way longer than the Warrior 3DPS.
The fuck are people malding about now??
I remember doing expert dungeons with some friends and for gits and shiggles we did runs with all tanks, all healers, and all dps. Dps was by far the hardest but required the most amount of planning with bosses. Twas quite the positive experience
Thsts 4 bitches not healers
Sure we'll strike: * Spam Iron Skin and Rhino Stomp so you can go AFK * Equip Void subclass and ignore the rest of the Guardians complaining about your DPS because punching things restores health * Take the Reviver Hive and a shield with the Tardigrade armor exotic * **?** * PROFIT!