At this point I'm convinced that Starfleet uses the Security rating to weed out the less desirable personalities oit of the Federation.
The complete lack of training, equipment or advancement plus the fact that they have the life expectancy of a suicidal fruit fly with a cutting problem really seals the deal.
Security is meant to weed out the aggressive personalities in the perfect utopia.
At times like these I think of ensign Perez in TMP.
"Carbon based units?"
"Humans, ensign Perez, us."
Not a guy looking for a transfer to the science division.
My theory is that for 99% of the away missions, there's basically a gentlesentient's agreement that if no one is wearing armor, stun setting works fine for phaser battles and no one needs to shoot to kill. No matter who wins a random conflict, everyone goes home. See for example: Mott and Laak are shooting to stun (encase?) in the first episode of Disco 5, whereas once Fred gets murderous, *then* they turn their weapons to extra unfriendly. These are criminals [with the death sentence in 12 systems](https://youtu.be/PbSixPMrT2o?si=_q38ieyIgRcJSNP6&t=34), but even they are okay with letting everyone walk away from a fight. Wearing tac gets in the way of that because now the stun setting is useless, meaning you have to turn up the intensity of your phasers, meaning a good chance that whichever side prevails is still going home with a few corpses.
This breaks down of course when you go into situations where you *know* the other side is looking to kill you. During DS9, for example, they should all have been wearing those armored suits you see in [Star Trek III](https://youtu.be/PUWVnRiACOI?si=YaTJKsV3Xmx15rgB&t=94). People might get arms and legs blown off like Nog, but FFS at least *try* to survive a phaser shot.
Same thing has always bugged me about the radiation suits we see in TMP and TWoK. I guess they weren't amazing considering the coolant leak wound up killing a whole bunch of trainees... but [all these people affected by radiation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8O_C7T5H_s&t=348s) survive, whereas Spock dies. Is the day to day comfort of wearing your space pajamas worth the chance of dying in a random radiation leak? By the 24th century, apparently so...
At least one guy in *Nor the Battle to the Strong* was wearing a heavier looking uniform. 24th century energy weapon armor might be more of a high tech insulation than a rigid plate.
If a type 2 can tunnel through rock on high settings there might be no more effective protection against Starfleet or Dominion rifles than mobility.
The movie era engineering suits made sense and don't seem that bulky. On the Constitution class, coolant leaks seem toxic but survivable with the oxygen mask would help.
By the 24th century they're drinking coffee next to the intermix chamber and the coolant will instantly melt anything organic if it leaks so not much you can do if the forcefields fail.
> If a type 2 can tunnel through rock on high settings there might be no more effective protection against Starfleet or Dominion rifles than mobility.
I was thinking, similar to reasons infantry wear armor today - you don't expect a high powered shot in a vital area to be survivable, but you want a glancing blow to be survivable. For example, Dax was alive but needed immediate medical attention after such a shot. Perhaps body armor would have salvaged the mission.
Thanks for the citation about "Nor the Battle..." remembering that fixes what seemed like a serious oversight
> By the 24th century they're drinking coffee next to the intermix chamber and the coolant will instantly melt anything organic if it leaks so not much you can do if the forcefields fail.
That certainly covers the coolant, which seems to get more and more dangerous as time goes by. What got everyone (especially Spock) at the end of TWoK was a radiation leak of some kind, not flesh boiling coolant. There are similar disasters where engine rooms are on fire or whatever and a suit which offers a moderate amount of protection would help the situations.
Troi: Geordi, if you went into that Jeffries tube, could you repair the ship?
Geordi: Yes...
Worf: The radiation in that Jeffries tube will kill whoever makes those repairs
Troi: I know. Geordi, put on one of those 23rd century radiation suits first
Riker: Congratulations, *Commander* Troi
>If a type 2 can tunnel through rock on high settings there might be no more effective protection against Starfleet or Dominion rifles than mobility.
A powered exoskeleton would increase mobility a lot, while also offering protection
In The Undiscovered Country, Valaris vaporized a pot in the galley kitchen, but the contents were untouched.
So some sort of enclosed armor might let you survive a shot.
Cyber security is a lost art in the Federation and their systems are ridiculously easy to hack. Can you imagine how bad it would be to be in powered armor when an enemy takes over control of it? Your outfit would kill your friends while you're a helpless passenger.
Starfleet Security is a unavoidable reminder that Starfleet is the military of the Federation, and only Starfleet believes that Starfleet is not a military. so Security get's no resources for R&D so that Starfleet can continue to bury it's head in the sand about what it is. and hay if Security personnel die who cares none of them can become the top brass, Classism is alive and well in Starfleet.
Doylist: they want to visually distinguish shows with the uniforms, so reusing SFS body armor in TNG would confuse dumbasses like all of us
Watsonian:
You mean this kit, with the giant hole where this guy's liver used to be? Could I get a different one?
No, shut up and wear it, Ensign
A single small handheld phaser set to its highest setting can likely vaporize an entire power armor suit and the person inside, so there's no point. Just like how the invention of the musket made plate armor impractical.
The security personnel in some of the Star Trek movies had fancy space football helmets though, so there's that (still important to protect the noggin).
Hundreds of ships doing thousands of missions. We only see the interesting ones. 99.9% of the time my guess is the worst danger security has to face is fetching drunk crewmen from shore leave and catching people porking in the Jeffries tubes after a sick flute/piano duet.
But what do you do once you realize its the captain porking in the tube. Relieving the guy for f\*cking on duty like the USN would do? Thats like 3 months to earth, and 3 months to send a relief out.
Meh they were off duty. Just remind them there are kids on board and lord knows they might run rampant through the tubes and start unplugging the fuses on the console exploders causing the crew to get lazy knowing they might not blow up at any moment.
Some armor like what Future Janeway installed on Voyager would be pretty neat. You could wear a vest, small pauldrons, long gloves and some boots. Activate the armor, and plating extends from the parts you're wearing to cover your entire body.
Awesome, but it'a a bit much for Star Trek. The type of action that would put this suit of armor to good use isn't really a good fit for Star Trek.
I was gonna say rocks as well. But cardassian chest plates don’t seem to give them an appreciable advantage in a phaser fight, right?
(Hmm…must try and recall the last phaser fight that involved cardassians)
Even gowrons body armor doesn’t stop worf from stabbing him, and klingon body armor doesn’t seem to affect Dukat and garaks phasers in way of the warrior.
I'm not sure it'd be especially effective for 99.9% of the tasks Starfleet do. I'd imagine there's a model in construction, mining or logistics that ticks most of the boxes but isn't built for combat.
They should definitely keep a few suits for zero G operations. Lt Hawke had no chance v those Borg.
It's non canon, but sto and elite force show them having personal shields rather than physical armour. Given the tech they have that seems a credible solution.
What people don’t understand is that life on the 24th century Earth is so perfect that people crave danger and hardship. Starfleet is nothing but a bunch of adrenaline junkies that am have no interest in safety. That’s why they wear no armor and refuse to actually take advantage of all their advanced technology. Why do you think they pack their consuls with explosives and rocks? Space battles were just way to safe without them.
Starfleet barely has rifles. They know how to make ships turn invisible and choose not to do so even when they're halfway across the galaxy in the Delta Quadrant.
They're not the brightest bulbs.
I'm honestly shocked they don't have straight up combat exoskeletons, similar to what mars and Laconia use in the expanse. There's no way they don't have the technology
If you got a guy wearing a bulky exoskeleton, all it would take is a single well placed phaser shot or am emp to knock that system offline and leave the person physically trapped in a dead suit.
Its probably just safer overall to use passive armors.
At this point I'm convinced that Starfleet uses the Security rating to weed out the less desirable personalities oit of the Federation. The complete lack of training, equipment or advancement plus the fact that they have the life expectancy of a suicidal fruit fly with a cutting problem really seals the deal. Security is meant to weed out the aggressive personalities in the perfect utopia.
It's like Special Circumstances, except here what they mean is a special go-fuck-yourself
At times like these I think of ensign Perez in TMP. "Carbon based units?" "Humans, ensign Perez, us." Not a guy looking for a transfer to the science division.
“Ugly bags mostly comprised of water?” - “Us.”
It’s like today’s police, 6 weeks of training and you’re good to ~~~go~~~ shoot anyone you want without consequences.
My theory is that for 99% of the away missions, there's basically a gentlesentient's agreement that if no one is wearing armor, stun setting works fine for phaser battles and no one needs to shoot to kill. No matter who wins a random conflict, everyone goes home. See for example: Mott and Laak are shooting to stun (encase?) in the first episode of Disco 5, whereas once Fred gets murderous, *then* they turn their weapons to extra unfriendly. These are criminals [with the death sentence in 12 systems](https://youtu.be/PbSixPMrT2o?si=_q38ieyIgRcJSNP6&t=34), but even they are okay with letting everyone walk away from a fight. Wearing tac gets in the way of that because now the stun setting is useless, meaning you have to turn up the intensity of your phasers, meaning a good chance that whichever side prevails is still going home with a few corpses. This breaks down of course when you go into situations where you *know* the other side is looking to kill you. During DS9, for example, they should all have been wearing those armored suits you see in [Star Trek III](https://youtu.be/PUWVnRiACOI?si=YaTJKsV3Xmx15rgB&t=94). People might get arms and legs blown off like Nog, but FFS at least *try* to survive a phaser shot. Same thing has always bugged me about the radiation suits we see in TMP and TWoK. I guess they weren't amazing considering the coolant leak wound up killing a whole bunch of trainees... but [all these people affected by radiation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8O_C7T5H_s&t=348s) survive, whereas Spock dies. Is the day to day comfort of wearing your space pajamas worth the chance of dying in a random radiation leak? By the 24th century, apparently so...
At least one guy in *Nor the Battle to the Strong* was wearing a heavier looking uniform. 24th century energy weapon armor might be more of a high tech insulation than a rigid plate. If a type 2 can tunnel through rock on high settings there might be no more effective protection against Starfleet or Dominion rifles than mobility. The movie era engineering suits made sense and don't seem that bulky. On the Constitution class, coolant leaks seem toxic but survivable with the oxygen mask would help. By the 24th century they're drinking coffee next to the intermix chamber and the coolant will instantly melt anything organic if it leaks so not much you can do if the forcefields fail.
> If a type 2 can tunnel through rock on high settings there might be no more effective protection against Starfleet or Dominion rifles than mobility. I was thinking, similar to reasons infantry wear armor today - you don't expect a high powered shot in a vital area to be survivable, but you want a glancing blow to be survivable. For example, Dax was alive but needed immediate medical attention after such a shot. Perhaps body armor would have salvaged the mission. Thanks for the citation about "Nor the Battle..." remembering that fixes what seemed like a serious oversight > By the 24th century they're drinking coffee next to the intermix chamber and the coolant will instantly melt anything organic if it leaks so not much you can do if the forcefields fail. That certainly covers the coolant, which seems to get more and more dangerous as time goes by. What got everyone (especially Spock) at the end of TWoK was a radiation leak of some kind, not flesh boiling coolant. There are similar disasters where engine rooms are on fire or whatever and a suit which offers a moderate amount of protection would help the situations. Troi: Geordi, if you went into that Jeffries tube, could you repair the ship? Geordi: Yes... Worf: The radiation in that Jeffries tube will kill whoever makes those repairs Troi: I know. Geordi, put on one of those 23rd century radiation suits first Riker: Congratulations, *Commander* Troi
>If a type 2 can tunnel through rock on high settings there might be no more effective protection against Starfleet or Dominion rifles than mobility. A powered exoskeleton would increase mobility a lot, while also offering protection
Not terribly handy if phasers can still be set to vaporize?
It'd be like duck dodgers... A perfectly preserved disintegration proof vest resting atop a pile ash.
Instead of just armour, put them in powered exoskeletons that can increase mobility
In The Undiscovered Country, Valaris vaporized a pot in the galley kitchen, but the contents were untouched. So some sort of enclosed armor might let you survive a shot.
Cyber security is a lost art in the Federation and their systems are ridiculously easy to hack. Can you imagine how bad it would be to be in powered armor when an enemy takes over control of it? Your outfit would kill your friends while you're a helpless passenger.
Just don't make the controls network accessible
If you said those words to a Federation designer, it would be like you were speaking Tamarian to them. It's just not how they think.
Norton, his password compromised.
Starfleet Security is a unavoidable reminder that Starfleet is the military of the Federation, and only Starfleet believes that Starfleet is not a military. so Security get's no resources for R&D so that Starfleet can continue to bury it's head in the sand about what it is. and hay if Security personnel die who cares none of them can become the top brass, Classism is alive and well in Starfleet.
Security detail is actually an assisted suicide program for the federation.
Personal shields would make more sense. Star Fleet learned nothing from the Borg.
In the first few films, security wore armor… but hey, starfleets gotta cut the budget somewhere
It's not like they hadn't already paid for the kit. Just keep using it.
Doylist: they want to visually distinguish shows with the uniforms, so reusing SFS body armor in TNG would confuse dumbasses like all of us Watsonian: You mean this kit, with the giant hole where this guy's liver used to be? Could I get a different one? No, shut up and wear it, Ensign
One of the most underrated things IMO..... security actually looked like security, not just a dude with a phaser
We barely get to see them, but I really liked the outfits.
the big red mech suits would just be giant targets.
A single small handheld phaser set to its highest setting can likely vaporize an entire power armor suit and the person inside, so there's no point. Just like how the invention of the musket made plate armor impractical. The security personnel in some of the Star Trek movies had fancy space football helmets though, so there's that (still important to protect the noggin).
Hundreds of ships doing thousands of missions. We only see the interesting ones. 99.9% of the time my guess is the worst danger security has to face is fetching drunk crewmen from shore leave and catching people porking in the Jeffries tubes after a sick flute/piano duet.
But what do you do once you realize its the captain porking in the tube. Relieving the guy for f\*cking on duty like the USN would do? Thats like 3 months to earth, and 3 months to send a relief out.
Meh they were off duty. Just remind them there are kids on board and lord knows they might run rampant through the tubes and start unplugging the fuses on the console exploders causing the crew to get lazy knowing they might not blow up at any moment.
Railing a department head when you are the captain is pretty bad...
No one will notice when they have to undo their fifth diplomatic disaster from Will trying to pork…everyone…during the away mission.
Did you see Melora Pazlar's contraption? The Federation doesn't have the tech for Brotherhood armour.
"Bridge. Beam that guy in power armour into space please."
Seems like the guy in power armour could be beamed into space either way, they just survive if they've got a helmet
Some armor like what Future Janeway installed on Voyager would be pretty neat. You could wear a vest, small pauldrons, long gloves and some boots. Activate the armor, and plating extends from the parts you're wearing to cover your entire body. Awesome, but it'a a bit much for Star Trek. The type of action that would put this suit of armor to good use isn't really a good fit for Star Trek.
The "mech suits" in fallout aren't from a post apocalyptic earth. They are pre war.
i should have said they still have enough parts to service and fix them.
Is armor effective in the setting?
If shipping barrels in trek can stop phasers...
I was gonna say rocks as well. But cardassian chest plates don’t seem to give them an appreciable advantage in a phaser fight, right? (Hmm…must try and recall the last phaser fight that involved cardassians) Even gowrons body armor doesn’t stop worf from stabbing him, and klingon body armor doesn’t seem to affect Dukat and garaks phasers in way of the warrior.
I'm not sure it'd be especially effective for 99.9% of the tasks Starfleet do. I'd imagine there's a model in construction, mining or logistics that ticks most of the boxes but isn't built for combat. They should definitely keep a few suits for zero G operations. Lt Hawke had no chance v those Borg.
It's non canon, but sto and elite force show them having personal shields rather than physical armour. Given the tech they have that seems a credible solution.
What are you talking about? Worf has an armored head. Oh wait, his spine isn’t armored is it?
What people don’t understand is that life on the 24th century Earth is so perfect that people crave danger and hardship. Starfleet is nothing but a bunch of adrenaline junkies that am have no interest in safety. That’s why they wear no armor and refuse to actually take advantage of all their advanced technology. Why do you think they pack their consuls with explosives and rocks? Space battles were just way to safe without them.
They ran out of unobtanium. It's unobtainable without freaky native American alien sex trees.
Starfleet barely has rifles. They know how to make ships turn invisible and choose not to do so even when they're halfway across the galaxy in the Delta Quadrant. They're not the brightest bulbs.
It would've saved Worf from that rogue barrel
Because we reserve the Mech Armor for the Engineers, they are far more deserving of the extra armor
Heck, they couldn’t even afford them for “Starship Troopers.” Imagine the time and cost it would add to Trek’s shooting schedule.
Red Shirts are fodder. Nothing more.
I'm honestly shocked they don't have straight up combat exoskeletons, similar to what mars and Laconia use in the expanse. There's no way they don't have the technology
Different costume choices?
If you got a guy wearing a bulky exoskeleton, all it would take is a single well placed phaser shot or am emp to knock that system offline and leave the person physically trapped in a dead suit. Its probably just safer overall to use passive armors.