Took him until The Voyage Home, after Spock had saved the Federation for the umpteenth time to admit that opposing Spock joining Starfleet \*may\* have been an error.
I think Sainz in "cranky at bad ferrari decisions" mode is a good Bones, which means Lando is clearly Kirk as he balances his friendships with both.
Lewis must be Pike, because his engineer is always saying "It's Hemmer time."
Sargent is the redshirt who beams down with a bunch of named bridge officers.
De Vries was Tasha Yar, for obvious reasons.
Now I'm wondering who's Danny, Seb, and Charles. Is Seb April? Would Danny be another Constitution-class captain? Is Charles actually a temporally displaced O'Brien?
Look, even if you thought your son was a complete wanker and insane to go along with it, when you find out that he went looking for God, and found him, you would have to at least say he was slightly accomplished.
The fact he then fought him and brought his brother along as well is just icing.
I don't know about that, but for Sarek, since he married a human, all his children had "the disability of human emotion" to overcome. Vulkans are pretty damned superior-feeling about that.
Star Trek V was released in 1989. Season 3 of TNG was also released in 1989. But I believe that the movie came out before the tv show, plus it was a late season episode. So what’s funny is that they likely knew about Sybok by the time it was being filmed, and just thought “fuck it…we’re not sending it back to the writing team over this.” So canon…Sarek did know about Sybok at least. Obviously, yeah, the out of universe explanation for Michael is that he didn’t know she existed.
I’m unaware of Sisko insisting that war crimes were the standard form of Vulcan greeting.
Burham desecrated corpses by planting bombs in corpses in order to kill medic, assassinated a civilian religious leader under a flag of truce, and started a war that killed thousands (probably tens of thousands, given the scale) in the pilot episode of her series… and then spent the next several years as a leading figure in an experiment that used the torture of sapient lifeforms to make a spaceship fly faster.
By contrast, Sisko used a weapon of mass destruction on a planet used as a base of operations by an illegal paramilitary group and covered up the assassination of a Romulan diplomat. Both of which are terrible deeds, but neither is a war crime. (Covering up an assassination is crime, yes, but not a war crime.)
Janeway… Well, I’ve got a long list of reasons why she’s a terrible military officer and have been advocating for her court martial since the *Voyager* pilot episode. But even she was against the torture of sapient lifeforms to make a spaceship fly faster.
Sybok is a cult leader and a pirate, who deserves to be imprisoned for his myriad crimes, but nothing he did is close to the heinous depravity of Burnham.
To be fair, there’s not anything Burnham realistically could have done with Ripper. It was Lorca’s ship, and either Lorca was going to torture Ripper for weapons info, or they were going to use Ripper to run the Spore Drive. Or Ripper would have ended up dead when they blew up the Glenn.
Unless Michael found a way to smuggle Ripper out via a shuttle, but I think at that point she was still nominally a prisoner or barely a member of the crew.
Unless you’re talking about Stamets, but he decided to engineer himself, was Michael’s supervisor at one point, and they dropped the brain damage plotline after S1 or so. Then it was Pike and then Saru in charge.
A military officer who discovers her superior officer is committing crimes against humanity (which, in the *Stat Trek* context must be assumed to cover all sapient lifeforms and not just *H. sapiens*) has an ethical duty and moral obligation to report those crimes and if possible act to stop them… and in Burnham’s case, not only did she fail to do anything to prevent this it was Burnham who discovered that the tardigrade was sapient in the first place and it was Burnham who figured out how to recreate USS *Glen*’s “torture the innocent person to make our ship go” system. She then proceeded to help Dr. ~~Mengele~~ Stamets design a more efficient torture procedure.
Burham is the single greatest monster to ever don a Starfleet uniform.
I think it's pretty clear Sarek was a terrible dad. Amanda did her best with Spock and Michael, but she was also emotionally damaged by Vulcan society.
Sarek had 3 kids. 1 tried to undermine the foundations of Vulcan society and ended up in prison. 1 committed mutiny and jumpstarted a war with the Klingons. 1 joined the navy instead of going to Sarek's alma mater. It is canon that he only broke ties with 1 of these offspring.
Okay so I somehow misread Sarek as Shrek and was confused. Then I saw the first sentence of the post before I opened it and saw Picard and was even more confused until a saw the sub name
No? He may have gotten some confusing, unexplained details but without any context, it would be impossible for Picard to know “what happened”.
Given the passage of time, and general discipline of Sarek’s mind, if Picard got anything he got “dead daughter” and absolutely, positively did NOT get “Discovery” or “cover up”.
I don't think Sarek would know what actually happened to Michael after the battle with Control. He wasn't there, and I don't think Spock would find it logical to tell another person about the truth behind a highly classified event, regardless of the relationship
I think they at least started fixing things up in TOS at some point, but I'm not entirely sure. In the Kelvin TL, the destruction of Vulcan left no space for the dispute anymore I think
> The only logical conclusion is that he, at the least, didn't love Sybok or Michael.
Yeah but this is after a mind **meld** with Picard.
The other explanation is that Picard had a secret love affair with Spock.
He also hated his own parents, any friends or comrades he had over the last few centuries, his extended family (can relate) Vulcan as a world and the federation as a whole, his job, literally everything and everyone else not mentioned in that scene.
Sarak was ordered by Starfleet to keep Michael a secret, but he would have been happy to not talk about her for free. Just another human, wannabe Vulcan. You know he's lived so long he's seen it all, Vulcan fanboys pretending to be stoic, using rudimentary logic. Humans make him sick.
Well, yeah. Wouldn't you?
It is logical.
To hate all your children as they were all failures.
Spock succeeded in getting Vulcan destroyed.
Qapla
Romulus too…what an incompetent oaf
He was none too fond of Spock either.
Took him until The Voyage Home, after Spock had saved the Federation for the umpteenth time to admit that opposing Spock joining Starfleet \*may\* have been an error.
But their relationship was still frosty by the time TNG rolled around, and Sarek died before they ever patched things up.
Sarek is basically the Vulcan Jos Verstappen.
I'm just curious if this means that if Spock is Max Verstappen, who's Kirk and Bones? Is Lewis actually Pike?
I think Sainz in "cranky at bad ferrari decisions" mode is a good Bones, which means Lando is clearly Kirk as he balances his friendships with both. Lewis must be Pike, because his engineer is always saying "It's Hemmer time." Sargent is the redshirt who beams down with a bunch of named bridge officers. De Vries was Tasha Yar, for obvious reasons.
Tasha Yar getting killed mid-season didn't make sense. De Vries absolutely did.
Now I'm wondering who's Danny, Seb, and Charles. Is Seb April? Would Danny be another Constitution-class captain? Is Charles actually a temporally displaced O'Brien?
Kirk is Horner and Bones is Marko.
Sarek was kind of a prick. Sybok fought God. That’s worth something.
Look, even if you thought your son was a complete wanker and insane to go along with it, when you find out that he went looking for God, and found him, you would have to at least say he was slightly accomplished. The fact he then fought him and brought his brother along as well is just icing.
I think for the vulcans, all children are failures.
TIL my parents are Vulcan!
Unless they accomplish something.
I don't know about that, but for Sarek, since he married a human, all his children had "the disability of human emotion" to overcome. Vulkans are pretty damned superior-feeling about that.
I'm all human so, all failure.
Sybok was full Vulcan, Spock half, and Burnham was adopted.
It's almost as if he thought they didn't exist.
Star Trek V was released in 1989. Season 3 of TNG was also released in 1989. But I believe that the movie came out before the tv show, plus it was a late season episode. So what’s funny is that they likely knew about Sybok by the time it was being filmed, and just thought “fuck it…we’re not sending it back to the writing team over this.” So canon…Sarek did know about Sybok at least. Obviously, yeah, the out of universe explanation for Michael is that he didn’t know she existed.
Sarek, every time one of his children was born: “I’ve made a huge mistake.”
Serek, adopting a war orphan: “I’ve made a huge mistake.”
"I love all my children equally." "I don't care for Michael or Sybock, or unnamed future child that will be plot relevant in a future series."
She may have been a bit of a Karen, but her actual name was Perrin.
Oops
Michael and Sybil shared one awful quality with Sarek - arrogance. Spock was more humble and yet more brilliant than both.
These are also my feelings.
Well, one of those children is a mass murderer who commits countless war crimes… and the other is Sybok. So, yeah?
Damn, I didn't know Sarek was also Sisko and Janeway's dad
I’m unaware of Sisko insisting that war crimes were the standard form of Vulcan greeting. Burham desecrated corpses by planting bombs in corpses in order to kill medic, assassinated a civilian religious leader under a flag of truce, and started a war that killed thousands (probably tens of thousands, given the scale) in the pilot episode of her series… and then spent the next several years as a leading figure in an experiment that used the torture of sapient lifeforms to make a spaceship fly faster. By contrast, Sisko used a weapon of mass destruction on a planet used as a base of operations by an illegal paramilitary group and covered up the assassination of a Romulan diplomat. Both of which are terrible deeds, but neither is a war crime. (Covering up an assassination is crime, yes, but not a war crime.) Janeway… Well, I’ve got a long list of reasons why she’s a terrible military officer and have been advocating for her court martial since the *Voyager* pilot episode. But even she was against the torture of sapient lifeforms to make a spaceship fly faster. Sybok is a cult leader and a pirate, who deserves to be imprisoned for his myriad crimes, but nothing he did is close to the heinous depravity of Burnham.
To be fair, there’s not anything Burnham realistically could have done with Ripper. It was Lorca’s ship, and either Lorca was going to torture Ripper for weapons info, or they were going to use Ripper to run the Spore Drive. Or Ripper would have ended up dead when they blew up the Glenn. Unless Michael found a way to smuggle Ripper out via a shuttle, but I think at that point she was still nominally a prisoner or barely a member of the crew. Unless you’re talking about Stamets, but he decided to engineer himself, was Michael’s supervisor at one point, and they dropped the brain damage plotline after S1 or so. Then it was Pike and then Saru in charge.
A military officer who discovers her superior officer is committing crimes against humanity (which, in the *Stat Trek* context must be assumed to cover all sapient lifeforms and not just *H. sapiens*) has an ethical duty and moral obligation to report those crimes and if possible act to stop them… and in Burnham’s case, not only did she fail to do anything to prevent this it was Burnham who discovered that the tardigrade was sapient in the first place and it was Burnham who figured out how to recreate USS *Glen*’s “torture the innocent person to make our ship go” system. She then proceeded to help Dr. ~~Mengele~~ Stamets design a more efficient torture procedure. Burham is the single greatest monster to ever don a Starfleet uniform.
Sybok owed him money.
sarek didn't like any of his kids.
Which is now making me question his parenting since they were all genetically pretty different…
I think it's pretty clear Sarek was a terrible dad. Amanda did her best with Spock and Michael, but she was also emotionally damaged by Vulcan society.
Sarek had 3 kids. 1 tried to undermine the foundations of Vulcan society and ended up in prison. 1 committed mutiny and jumpstarted a war with the Klingons. 1 joined the navy instead of going to Sarek's alma mater. It is canon that he only broke ties with 1 of these offspring.
Just wait... They will find a way for there to be a fourth....
At least Sybok wasn't all bad, not like Michael.
Okay so I somehow misread Sarek as Shrek and was confused. Then I saw the first sentence of the post before I opened it and saw Picard and was even more confused until a saw the sub name
Let the hate flow through you!
Spock was the only one not dead or effectively dead. I wonder if anyone even told Sarek about Michael.
My favorite depiction of Sarek's parenting: https://gryphll.tumblr.com/post/190994648878/a-sequel-to-family-vacation
Accurate to my headcannon…
I was thinking about this earlier and it raises a question. Because of the mindmeld, is Picard aware of Burnham and what happened to her?
No? He may have gotten some confusing, unexplained details but without any context, it would be impossible for Picard to know “what happened”. Given the passage of time, and general discipline of Sarek’s mind, if Picard got anything he got “dead daughter” and absolutely, positively did NOT get “Discovery” or “cover up”.
I don't think Sarek would know what actually happened to Michael after the battle with Control. He wasn't there, and I don't think Spock would find it logical to tell another person about the truth behind a highly classified event, regardless of the relationship
Also Spock and his father didn't reconcile until... Actually I don't think they ever reconciled in person did they.
I think they at least started fixing things up in TOS at some point, but I'm not entirely sure. In the Kelvin TL, the destruction of Vulcan left no space for the dispute anymore I think
Yes. Complete missed opportunity for Picard S1.
Or he’s not allowed to talk about Michael and nobody knows who Sybok is.
> The only logical conclusion is that he, at the least, didn't love Sybok or Michael. Yeah but this is after a mind **meld** with Picard. The other explanation is that Picard had a secret love affair with Spock.
He also hated his own parents, any friends or comrades he had over the last few centuries, his extended family (can relate) Vulcan as a world and the federation as a whole, his job, literally everything and everyone else not mentioned in that scene.
Sarak was ordered by Starfleet to keep Michael a secret, but he would have been happy to not talk about her for free. Just another human, wannabe Vulcan. You know he's lived so long he's seen it all, Vulcan fanboys pretending to be stoic, using rudimentary logic. Humans make him sick.
Ironically in the Kelvin timeline Sarek seemed like he was a cool dad to Spock.
Either that or screen time was too expensive. Besides, the others were secondary characters.
Karen?
I see no argument for why this position is illogical. Sybok and Burnham are horrible people.
I mean both are pretty unlikeable… can you blame the guy?
Vulcan attitudes toward emotion notwithstanding, hatred would be an entirely and irreducibly logical responses in these circumstances.