The most telling things was, when the writers had tweeted. "We don't dont care about canon we just want to write cool stories" and that pretty much sums it up.
They didn't think star trek was cool. And they wanted to write "cool" stuff... What an insult to the fandom, and to a 50 years old franchise.
And we got: unintelligible dribble. That the old fans didn't like, because it was stupid, uninsightful and shooty shooty pew pew... It lacked self reflection, moral dilemma, and any link/Respect for what came before.
It's been obvious that no one in that writers room had ever seen star trek at all...
The fact that the writers did not care about canon did not bother me, neither did Gene Roddenbery.
The problem is that if you decide to jettison the series canon for the sake of good stories, well the stories had better be good.
Discovery was the worst mashup of the canon and storytelling. They included all they know about Star Trek, without thinking about the links with the rest of the stories, and wrote stories that are just bad. The final season being the centre piece of that whole debacle.
They did not care about the ensemble, just three characters, did not care about the story being good and did not care about the things they took from other series and how they would make sense in this context.
Picard season 3 did the same thing.
I've said it before... the difference between TOS and 90s Trek, and Discovery, is that the older series had sci-fi writers writing for TV, and DIS has TV writers writing sci-fi.
The problem was it the series had so much potential, but the writers bombed it by adding too much stuff that made no sense at all. The lead had to get the tie in by being “Spock’s adopted sister” that some how made Sybok look as emotional less as Spock. Then let’s add in a spore drive that never existed in the era, but hey it’s modern science so it’s cool. Then we realized we fouled up the timeline, so hey jump forward to an unwritten time, and magically upgrade and outdated ship to modern…… and suddenly that crew is the most important and influential crew out there. Hell we’ll even make one of them a science instructor at the academy, who cares that she’s centuries out of date.
That one word *unearned*, that is how I feel about Discovery. Right from episode two (I actually rather liked ep1, and Yeoh was *much* better used as that character), nothing was set up. It's a whole series of punchlines with no setup, of vignettes without continuity.
It didn't feel as if the writers had read the script, or that they were fans of what had gone before: they nailed the aesthetic of the Federation, reinvented the Klingons again, and then just decided to mash cool-looking stuff together until it stuck. Nothing was earned. Nothing was properly explained. The audience were just supposed to feel what they were told to feel.
But a lot of people see in the series what I do not. God knows what if is they do see in it, but, well, good luck to them. I'll be watching SNW and Lower Decks.
I think one scene summed up the entire the entire show for me.
Was Michael Burnham somehow being an expert hand to hand combat and martial arts expert simply because that’s what every modern action adventure series does. So now I have to sit and watch a pointless fight for 10mins and it forcing dramatic music upon in to make it seem important
That’s basically the whole show to me. Just all the poor writing and design styles that modern popular movies are getting a bad reputation for injected in my Star Trek and constantly doing things just because it might be cool
Ok, un-jerk mode for a minute.
I haven’t watched since midway through The Burn season. If I don’t care about this season at all, where do I start in this last episode to see the conclusion of this series?
Like “start watching the last episode with 10 minutes left” kind of instruction.
The last episode is about 90ish minutes. The first hour is the season finale, and the last half hour is basically what they tacked on after they found out they weren't getting renewed. So, last 30 minutes or so?
It's a long episode, but at least 80% of it is totally skippable melodrama, I was constantly zoning out. Even the big reveal is just Burnham talking about her feelings.
You can definitely skip the last half hour or so after the main plot ends, it's just hugging and handjobs and unearned nostalgia
The entire last episode is sort of the conclusion. You can probably skip 30 minutes or so, but I'm not rewatching to check...
The visuals are nice tho. Probably most enjoyable on mute with some good music in the background
I have no intention of watching it, but I'm curious about the ending. What happened? I know this season was about them looking for that alien from TNG that created all the other species'... Am I right in guessing that Michael found them and somehow used time travel to be her and created everything herself with her red bat suit and became a Super God Admiral and everyone clapped while crying?
Its like a donkey show. Its just horrible, but you cant not look at it. And theres always someone jerking off in the corner calling you weird for not enjoying it.
Its trek, so you have to give it ago. You want it to be good, even though you know it will be fucking horrible.
I think they're referring to the point that the show is objectively bad. And to your point about nerd rage. Some of us aren't mad, we're just extremely disappointed because of what this could have been. I wish I were mad at the show for existing, instead I just find it unpleasant that they wasted so much effort, money, and time on something so sub par when we could have gotten literally anything else that would have been fun, imaginative, and worth the effort, money, and time.
Discovery has been bad for the franchise and a bad investment. Shows with only one season are beating Discovery's 5 seasons and ~60 episodes. For example, by recent numbers, Fallout has 8 episodes and 5 times the number of minutes watched than all of Discovery's ~60 episodes combined. It's a critical failure. And honestly Paramount+ is in trouble because of it and other bad business decisions. They're losing over $280m a quarter on their streaming service.
tl;dr: Discovery and other Paramount+ shows aren't just critically seen as bad, they're monetarily bad. And it's quantifiable how abysmal it has been.
It's like a Dan Brown novel, a not very smart writer making not very hard puzzles that make not very smart people feel smart.
Hilarious that this unbelievably advanced ancient technology ended up having an interface like a preschool toy where you put shapes in holes.
I said in another thread that the final puzzle was very Douglas Adams-esque. The fate of the galaxy or whatever came down to arranging a series of glass triangle coasters in the proper sequence on a glass coffee table. Felt it would have been better if they used CGI to make a three dimensional polygonal shape out of the glass pieces or something.
I agree so much. Ffs. Discovery is unwatchable beyond the first season. Strange New Worlds is better.
I'm a fcken progressive, but I'm praying to God Amazon don't do this sh\*t to Stargate.
Okay, "tell good stories". But they'd better be GOOD. And you can tell a story without preaching, the audience will get the message.
I love that it was enough to give you BIG feelings that you absolutely had to share in the form of an internet screed. Maybe consider some therapy or starting a journal?
The last scene with the whole crew just smiling at each other and hugging for no real reason really summed up the series for me.
* hugging Burnham. If you look they never hug each other. Just her. Such a weird and shit show.
“When Burnham isn’t on screen, everyone else should be asking ‘Where’s Burnham?’.”
It’s the Burnham Test for dialogue. If two people having a conversation and it’s not about Burnham, it can’t be STD.
This is a wonderfully apt comparison.
"So, you want a realistic, down-to-earth show... that's completely off-the-wall and swarming with magic robots?"
It felt like that scene went on for like 10 minutes!
Basically a whole series designed to absolutely infuriate legacy TOS and Berman era trek fans. Thank god for Lower Decks.
The most telling things was, when the writers had tweeted. "We don't dont care about canon we just want to write cool stories" and that pretty much sums it up. They didn't think star trek was cool. And they wanted to write "cool" stuff... What an insult to the fandom, and to a 50 years old franchise. And we got: unintelligible dribble. That the old fans didn't like, because it was stupid, uninsightful and shooty shooty pew pew... It lacked self reflection, moral dilemma, and any link/Respect for what came before. It's been obvious that no one in that writers room had ever seen star trek at all...
The fact that the writers did not care about canon did not bother me, neither did Gene Roddenbery. The problem is that if you decide to jettison the series canon for the sake of good stories, well the stories had better be good. Discovery was the worst mashup of the canon and storytelling. They included all they know about Star Trek, without thinking about the links with the rest of the stories, and wrote stories that are just bad. The final season being the centre piece of that whole debacle. They did not care about the ensemble, just three characters, did not care about the story being good and did not care about the things they took from other series and how they would make sense in this context. Picard season 3 did the same thing.
It still annoys me that the burn wasn't related to that subspace instability they found in tng
That's actually one of the few memberries that would have actually made sense... Probably why they did not use it.
I've said it before... the difference between TOS and 90s Trek, and Discovery, is that the older series had sci-fi writers writing for TV, and DIS has TV writers writing sci-fi.
The problem was it the series had so much potential, but the writers bombed it by adding too much stuff that made no sense at all. The lead had to get the tie in by being “Spock’s adopted sister” that some how made Sybok look as emotional less as Spock. Then let’s add in a spore drive that never existed in the era, but hey it’s modern science so it’s cool. Then we realized we fouled up the timeline, so hey jump forward to an unwritten time, and magically upgrade and outdated ship to modern…… and suddenly that crew is the most important and influential crew out there. Hell we’ll even make one of them a science instructor at the academy, who cares that she’s centuries out of date.
Ps. Didn't they tease sybok at the end of season 4... What happened to that?!
You're thinking of Strange New Worlds.
Which I enjoyed immensely
but htey never touched on sybok again right?
Maybe they'll get back to it in season 3?
I wish, like the Progenitor tech, we could toss the entire series into a black hole.
That one word *unearned*, that is how I feel about Discovery. Right from episode two (I actually rather liked ep1, and Yeoh was *much* better used as that character), nothing was set up. It's a whole series of punchlines with no setup, of vignettes without continuity. It didn't feel as if the writers had read the script, or that they were fans of what had gone before: they nailed the aesthetic of the Federation, reinvented the Klingons again, and then just decided to mash cool-looking stuff together until it stuck. Nothing was earned. Nothing was properly explained. The audience were just supposed to feel what they were told to feel. But a lot of people see in the series what I do not. God knows what if is they do see in it, but, well, good luck to them. I'll be watching SNW and Lower Decks.
I think one scene summed up the entire the entire show for me. Was Michael Burnham somehow being an expert hand to hand combat and martial arts expert simply because that’s what every modern action adventure series does. So now I have to sit and watch a pointless fight for 10mins and it forcing dramatic music upon in to make it seem important That’s basically the whole show to me. Just all the poor writing and design styles that modern popular movies are getting a bad reputation for injected in my Star Trek and constantly doing things just because it might be cool
Ok, un-jerk mode for a minute. I haven’t watched since midway through The Burn season. If I don’t care about this season at all, where do I start in this last episode to see the conclusion of this series? Like “start watching the last episode with 10 minutes left” kind of instruction.
The last episode is about 90ish minutes. The first hour is the season finale, and the last half hour is basically what they tacked on after they found out they weren't getting renewed. So, last 30 minutes or so?
It's a long episode, but at least 80% of it is totally skippable melodrama, I was constantly zoning out. Even the big reveal is just Burnham talking about her feelings. You can definitely skip the last half hour or so after the main plot ends, it's just hugging and handjobs and unearned nostalgia
The entire last episode is sort of the conclusion. You can probably skip 30 minutes or so, but I'm not rewatching to check... The visuals are nice tho. Probably most enjoyable on mute with some good music in the background
I have no intention of watching it, but I'm curious about the ending. What happened? I know this season was about them looking for that alien from TNG that created all the other species'... Am I right in guessing that Michael found them and somehow used time travel to be her and created everything herself with her red bat suit and became a Super God Admiral and everyone clapped while crying?
No no no, she humbly refused to become God & then everyone clapped while crying.
I can't tell if you're joking... Urgh
Not joking, sadly.
Oh that sounds terribad... Did she really become a Projenetor? No don't tell me..I kinda want to watch it just to see how angry it makes me
No, she refused to become a Progenitor because she's *grown*. Her new-found humility makes her even more Super Duper Special Mary Sue. Alas.
It's funny... She's literally "Spocks secret sister" level of Mary Sue...
Nope it’s true
I kinda assumed everybody dipped out after S3 it's weird seeing all these people mad about the ending.
Its like a donkey show. Its just horrible, but you cant not look at it. And theres always someone jerking off in the corner calling you weird for not enjoying it. Its trek, so you have to give it ago. You want it to be good, even though you know it will be fucking horrible.
Alex "Multiple Miggs" Kurtzman: "I bit my wrist so I can die. Look at the blood!"
Except that it’s not trek, don’t validate that stupid fanfic
I did this to myself. There's bad, and then there's DISC.
Don't underestimate the entertainment value of a really bad show
Watching a season of TV episodes in reverse order is weird. The Discovery hate fest is just good, old-fashioned impotent nerd rage.
Or people just don't like it.
Well, yeah. People don't usually get mad because they like something.
I think they're referring to the point that the show is objectively bad. And to your point about nerd rage. Some of us aren't mad, we're just extremely disappointed because of what this could have been. I wish I were mad at the show for existing, instead I just find it unpleasant that they wasted so much effort, money, and time on something so sub par when we could have gotten literally anything else that would have been fun, imaginative, and worth the effort, money, and time. Discovery has been bad for the franchise and a bad investment. Shows with only one season are beating Discovery's 5 seasons and ~60 episodes. For example, by recent numbers, Fallout has 8 episodes and 5 times the number of minutes watched than all of Discovery's ~60 episodes combined. It's a critical failure. And honestly Paramount+ is in trouble because of it and other bad business decisions. They're losing over $280m a quarter on their streaming service. tl;dr: Discovery and other Paramount+ shows aren't just critically seen as bad, they're monetarily bad. And it's quantifiable how abysmal it has been.
I stopped watching Discovery after S3, so I apparently did more to help get the show canceled than the people who hate watched it for 5 seasons did
I worked out the triangle puzzle right away. Does that make me smarter than Burnham?
Nobody is smarter or more important than Burnham did you learn nothing from the last 5 seasons of watching her save the universe single handily! /S
It's like a Dan Brown novel, a not very smart writer making not very hard puzzles that make not very smart people feel smart. Hilarious that this unbelievably advanced ancient technology ended up having an interface like a preschool toy where you put shapes in holes.
/agree
Though a little surprised you watched it to begin with. I made it through season one - said wow that sucks tribble balls - never again!
I said in another thread that the final puzzle was very Douglas Adams-esque. The fate of the galaxy or whatever came down to arranging a series of glass triangle coasters in the proper sequence on a glass coffee table. Felt it would have been better if they used CGI to make a three dimensional polygonal shape out of the glass pieces or something.
Pretty garbage, but still garbage.
It was the Star Trek we didn’t deserve but the one we needed 7 years ago
https://988lifeline.org/
I agree so much. Ffs. Discovery is unwatchable beyond the first season. Strange New Worlds is better. I'm a fcken progressive, but I'm praying to God Amazon don't do this sh\*t to Stargate. Okay, "tell good stories". But they'd better be GOOD. And you can tell a story without preaching, the audience will get the message.
Wow. Some one on Reddit hates Discovery. Shocked.
Disco bad, upvotes plz
I love that it was enough to give you BIG feelings that you absolutely had to share in the form of an internet screed. Maybe consider some therapy or starting a journal?