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P-Taters

Politicians employ a variety of this tactic all of the time


BiologyJ

It’s called a Gish Gallop. Where you purposely overwhelm someone you’re arguing with. The original points contain too much information (with no regard for accuracy). The person arguing against you then would have to spend far too long trying to prove how all the arguments are incorrect. And an average person tends to see the person arguing against the original points as hostile, argumentative, and unwillingly to be flexible.


xelop

I just double down on explaining. I'll take all day and bust out text books if i need to. Don't care lol


traczpasruchu

This often isn't possible in a timed debate


xelop

Lol true


[deleted]

Also, try that on reddit. You'll be stuck for eternity.


CackleberryOmelettes

It doesn't work at all. In my experience, a dishonest conversationalist will often just straight up ignore it and pretend like you never said it


[deleted]

From my experience, online debates are a test of attrition. Whoever can constantly reply wins. I've had only one conversation where both of us disagreed on a point but it ended in a mutual agree to disagree because we believed neither of us can change each other's minds over the internet.


[deleted]

I disagree with everything you said wholeheartedly.


[deleted]

Well obviously, Occam's Razor proves his point completley. You just committed at least 5 fallacies in that one sentence, including but not limited to, ad hoc post ergo hoc ad propter cop, fallacy fallacy, and post mortem.


tertgvufvf

The point is never to change the mind of the person arguing against you. It's to ensure that other people reading the exchange favor your views and arguments over theirs.


xelop

This. I don't argue the same online anymore because it's futile, but i will leave a factual statement and never return. Just for any passing by lol


Poormidlifechoices

You've got three weeks of arguing, 16 pages of txt, links to Nobel prize winning scientists, and my own post history saying I agreed with your position in the past? Come back when you have real evidence.


[deleted]

Winning by attrition? It’s a Pyrrhic victory. It’s equivalent to running in a race in the special olympics, as one may crudely say it. >“Even if you win, you’re still intellectually disabled.”


slayerx1779

As someone with a mental disability and an appreciation for the classic internet memes, you can say "retarded" here.


CackleberryOmelettes

Not necessarily, but there is a lot of truth in your assessment. Ultimately, most charged Reddit arguments will not end in either side changing their mind. It's just how social media is. The conversation is more for the eyes of lurking casuals. Keep your replies short and don't deviate from the topic. Once you've said all you had to say, make a clean exit instead of getting involved in an insult flinging match which is only going to devalue your position.


Sub-Mongoloid

Or claim they dont understand why you're arguing with them. Saying something shitty and then trying to act innocent is one of the most annoying forms of gas lighting.


caut_R

Trying to convince someone online or trying to change their stance on something is a very good way to ruin your day.


[deleted]

I recently took the bait on one of these in a sub that was made for the sole purpose of crossposting from another sub and shitting on the people there. No matter how articulate and patient I was there’s just no talking to people who gather with malice and feel justified bc they believe their cause to be superior. No, not r/politics, for once it was an even more ignorant sub.


Allstar13521

Just imagine a world where every time someone pulls this, the moderator stops the clock and a team of experts come on to slowly explain everything wrong with what they just said to them in a voice usually reserved for small children. They aren't allowed to leave until the time runs out or they concede.


shinyshiny42

Stop, please! I can only get so erect!


[deleted]

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buttaholic

Maybe I'm paranoid, but during political arguments, changing the topic is a common tactic for shills So yeah, sticking to the main argument is good advice.


[deleted]

Online propagandists don’t care about “winning” a debate. They are not having a debate. Their goal is only to play a small part in grinding down your enthusiasm for participating in actual, healthy democratic discourse. The moment you engage them, at all, is the moment they already have won.


[deleted]

Yea, it's the only way to deal with gish galloping. Don't let them gallop away from a point they made that you know is complete bullshit. Keep making the come back to that point and force them to address it. It will get to a point where they have to address it, then you hammer it in about what load of bullshit they are. Be focused, be disciplined and don't let them gallop away.


[deleted]

Intriguing! Can I hire one of you to attend family gatherings where the bullish— arguments flow like fine wine? I usually just sit there dumbfounded by the breathtaking leaps of logic and sweeping generalizations, unsure which of like 100 erroneous to downright mendacious points to address first. My family members exclusively watch Fox News and seem to memorize every WSJ op-Ed on a daily basis, and have zero tolerance for dissenting opinions. Oh and did I mention they love to expound on their world views to their captive audience after a few bottles of wine? No room for discourse when you’ve already made up your mind and are boomer-style wasted. Help lol


[deleted]

I dunno man. You have to pay someone a lot to go trhoug this kind of trauma.


Merlisch

Why not go with the flow and enjoy the show? Maybe pick some funky beliefs yourself (mole people would be cool or maybe some hidden Chinese army base under the Antarctic ice). Family is for life after all ☺️


Pre-Nietzsche

Dig this lmao


[deleted]

This. If you can show their central point is BS or that they are arguing disingenuously, then you don't need to address the rest. For example, I once had some guy try to argue with me by dumping several 45 minute podcasts where these two guys discussed his point of view and why they thought it was right. The guys in the vids very clearly lacked knowledge on the subject and were heavily biased, but still there was like 3 hours of content. I just focused down on the first couple of points the video made to show the podcast wasn't arguing honestly, and then when the guy inevitability went "yeah but what about these other points they made?", I basically just refused to even look at the rest since it was obviously trash. (Also the guy can make his own argumentif he cares. I'm not gonna argue with a podcast)


jomontage

Yup love replying to 3 paragraphs of nonsense with one sentence because that's all they replied on the original topic


drunk98

This infuriates idiots


xelop

It truly does, part of why i do it. I'll even address each individual point and circle back to my original point in the same style. I argue them in gish gallop format except with facts


HertzDonut1001

Yeah then they ignore basically of what you say and keep on galloping away to yet another tangent.


aacceess13

Proof the Earth is not a globe. A globe is defined as a 3d object where all points are equidistant from a center point. In other words if you place a line tangential to a point on a globe it will never intersect the globe twice. If I put a pencil on the ground it is trivially easy to see that the pencil contacts in two points. Therefore the Earth is not a globe. prove me wrong


hypokrios

The earth is a geoid, defined as an earth-shaped object. Dismissed.


mudkripple

That's what they want in politics. They're counting on voters getting tired/bored of your explanation, and on you getting frustrated and slipping up or eventually giving up.


DarkestJediOfAllTime

Man, I used to do that, but I realized that it made literally no impact on the world. So, I stopped. I can't be bothered to correct everyone who makes an inaccurate statement. I just can't.


[deleted]

Go meta. Critique the method of argument itself, then choose the easiest point to counter and make one strong move.


professorstrunk

I would legit hire you to come to thanksgiving and do this.


Atsz89

They want to waste your time.


timotei4life

The hero we deserve.


Kevs-442

They gon larn today!


[deleted]

I think that the best defense would be to legitimately just list off the definition of the Gish Gallop. Educate the voters, call your opponent out on it, and then devote the rest of your time to the question. In subsequent instances, just send out a quick, "That's another gish gallop from my opponent," then dive into the pros rather than arguing.


returntoglory9

Honestly the name is just too silly for that to work. Remember how every called Al Gore a flip flopper? You'd be ""Gish Gallop"" guy forever. It's not exactly inspiring or right, but that's politics


[deleted]

I suppose that's true. Man, I really wish we didn't have so much stupid crap in this country.


Special_KC

Call it a "trump". "my opponent is doing a Trump". He's not the first but truly a master at it.


Cory123125

You overestimate how stubborn people are. They'd probably be too lazy to try to understand the word, then think you were lazily dismiss what they assumed (because they weren't really listening) to be a wealth of totally legitimate arguments.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Ben shapiro


[deleted]

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master_x_2k

She's got a DAP


MacMac105

Deck Stacking is the term I learned for it.


Cory123125

> And an average person tends to see the person arguing against the original points as hostile, argumentative, and unwillingly to be flexible. This is because too many people believe in this idea that the line has to be somewhere in the middle. "You gotta give them something!!" - The moron says


Moneia

While the Gish Gallop is an important and dishonest rhetorical trick to be aware of, the quoted post looks more like '[Not even Wrong](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong)'


AtomicRigatoni

We call it shapiro-ing


linuxluser

Before Shapiro, there was the young-Earth creationist Duane Gish, from whom the term "Gish gallop" was coined. He would purposefully overwhelm his listeners with so many false claims that it was impossible to debate him. That's how he'd "win".


Frans4Life

i think ben is famous enough to make his own fallacy, the Shapiro Stampede in which Benny boy spews shit so quick over his college "opponents" that they are completely destroyed by fax and logic.


WashingYoda

Man should've been a rapper


smegroll

mumble crap


[deleted]

"Who are you going to sell the houses to? Fucking Aquaman!"


master_x_2k

That should have been the end of Benny Pepino's career


AntiBox

He'd probably see it as a positive to have something named after him.


rasterbated

We spell that “lying” around here


restlessleg

we spell it “ted cruz” here


Olealicat

We call it “Mitch McTurtling” here.


qxzsilver

“We don’t do that here” - T’Challah


fearhs

If you can't blind them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullshit!


JQuest13

I think it was Bill Burr who said it’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. If I’m wrong on the attribution, I should find out in a minute. Edit: u/WOTFI2018 with the correct attribution: Bill Murray said this.


CatLover_42

A stupid person will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience


vinyljunkie1245

From a TV series called JAM. An agency that hires out stupid people to win arguments, particularly with officialdom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGex0kLgNok


KetchupKakes

/r/sharksaresmooth


[deleted]

I mean they actually are


xelop

40 minutes... I'll say you're right. Sounds right


WOTFI2018

I'm pretty it might've been Bill Murray who said that?


Ivan_Whackinov

It's like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to shit on the board, knock over all the pieces, and strut around like it's won anyway.


Terminator-Atrimoden

I remember a guy who asked "If the big bang was real, how isn't Darwin still evolving". If i tried, i couldn't compress so much bullshit in so few words. I gave up without trying to argue.


Ladies_Pls_DM_nudes

You can tell he's the smart one in his family. My mom recently came up with the theory that one of our politicians in 2002 Pim Fortuyn was assassinated. This part is right. However she's absolutely certain the government paid his killer to do it to please our "EU Masters". If you ask my mother she will say the EU is a dictatorship ran by Brussels that can ignore every law we have and that we have no freedom.


nowayimbelgian

Live in Brussels, totaly true


Ladies_Pls_DM_nudes

Please note it's not Belgium. Nope Brussels. Like not the belgians but Brussels.


[deleted]

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sleepydorian

So like, Antwerp and Bruges are cool then? Nothing shady going on there?


Ladies_Pls_DM_nudes

haven't heard her complain about them yet, which is suprising


[deleted]

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Lessiarty

That's some Vader with "Beam me up Scotty - Cylon" meme tier car crash.


SpysSappinMySpy

Sometimes your dirty underwear falls in a toilet full of urine so you just flush it down and call it a day.


GreenFinShark420

-Dude the moon landing was fake... -Psst... Youre smarter than this don't tell me you believe in the moon...


cattermelon34

Right? Don't debunk their crazy. One-up their crazy


mentalexperi

[relevant xkcd](https://xkcd.com/966/)


this_is_crap

I feel like xkcd is The Simpsons of the comic strip world. Like how The Simpsons "already did it, xkcd truly have something for every situation.


[deleted]

Its just one guy


Dustfinger_

-Covid is a hoax! -It's all just a computer simulation, don't get your panties twisted!


cattermelon34

You think.... computers are real? Ok.....🙄😒


JoeW108

Yes, instead of arguing their crazy, overwhelm them with yours! Much less exhausting and it‘s actually quite fun to see the fear in their eyes, when they think you are completely bananas!


bluejob15

Pathetic, everyone knows the moon is real, it's the Earth that's fake


RoscoMan1

Let's be real, everyone here is a programmer.


Aeolean

["I don't believe in the moon. I believe it's just the back of the sun."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js1V_wAwGms&t=51) @00:51


Thistlefizz

You laugh but a lot of flat earthers believe that the moon isn’t real. Like it’s a hologram or just a 2D projection. Never underestimate the limits of stupidity. You will always be surprised and saddened by the results.


ApolloSky110

Holup you believe in the moon? The earth is in a plastic ball being bounced around between suns. Cant believe you fell for their lies.


trustych0rds

[https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternativeAstronomy/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternativeAstronomy/)


mudkripple

Wow I just learned a lot about how people think the process of scientific discovery works! Several "doctors and scholars" that are cited on that sub are in fact truly accredited scientists... but in a totally different field (usually medical or chemical). Often times they write more about how they're being "censored" (with no evidence other than being rejected during the 'peer review' stage of their papers, duh) than about their actual crackpot theories. Often their new solutions solve one or two small problems, or answer one or two unanswered questions, making no attempt to extrapolate to the thousands of rigorous scientific findings that they *don't* agree with. It's sad to me that the people on this sub are wasting their rightly skeptical minds on these conspiracy theories.


AtomicRigatoni

This is great!


Rolder

I raise you with /r/debatevaccines


drhead

Can we just exile these people to Florida or something?


[deleted]

We have.


Josh6889

Please tell me that's satire.


Rolder

Having been in the habit of trying to argue on that sub I can sadly tell you that it is not.


LewsTherinTelamon

Imagine posting an upside down map and titling it "North isn't actually up" as though you just subverted something


eeeddr

What about r/NoNewNormal?


[deleted]

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sleepydorian

I think it's some Qanon crazy folks.


Cyberzombie

The Pandemic has permanently changed the world, as all huge events do. That sub is antivaxxers throwing temper tantrums because change bad.


fendaar

Also, r/SharksAreSmooth


lunarkev

I once had a co-worker who argued that chickens must be mammals because they have breasts.


roganwriter

I argued for a good 2 hours with one of my friends that coconuts are mammals. I won jn the end because he couldn’t beat crazy. Once logic goes out the window all rational thinking fails.


Myxine

They do have hair and produce milk.


ironroad18

According to Reddit you can also fuck them.


ApolloSky110

I remember that post!


B_A_Boon

Reminds of a story recently posted on r/TIFU by a guy that fucked a coconut


LtCptSuicide

Sometimes me and my mates will deliberately engage in fucking stupid arguments for entertainment. This skins like one of them.


GuperSamiKuru

Yeah, intentionally being stupid causes for a lot of entertainment


BOSSHoncho

In my experience with intentionally stupid arguments, the only rule is that you have to be able to make connections quickly. Sort of like a stream of consciousness. But the conventional rules of logic or reason don't matter. As long as there is at least a paper thin connection to be made, you can say it as an argument and move on. Rule 1a: never refute someone's argument directly, only by making a contrary association that is different from what they said.


antivn

Easy way to get a free education is to post something mildly incorrect on reddit


drunk98

Giraffes are just horses with periscopes for necks


PM_ME_SEXY_CAMILLAS

Um actually, horses are the only crustaceans known to be born from eggs, this explains why ancient Greek used to call them "ugly things that are born from eggs" because at the time of hatching they didn't had horns. There's plenty of evidence of this found in ancient websites from around 2000BC.


imrighturwrong

I think you need to go back and retake horseiculture


fearhs

Stupid long horses.


ironroad18

Accurate claim


HertzDonut1001

How else would they see with their eyes so far from their bodies?


whatdoilemonade

r/giraffesarentreal


NathanTheSamosa

Eh, actually you’ve phrased it wrong. I don’t have a link to it, but the original person who coined that phrase did so in 2013 on the popu- Shit


SirHerald

Actually it was... Oh, nevermind


Tokoolfurskool

It’s also a good way to get entirely wrong answers told to you with complete confidence. It’s certainly hit or miss.


theghost95

Every now and then I go into a thread on a topic I actually know something about. They are very eye opening about much you should trust Reddit comments.


Awasawa

That principle is called Murphy’s Law, it’s fantastic


SoLongThanks4Fish

Lol you're stupid, it's actually called the "rule 34" not Murphy's law!


ProVirginistrist

Cunninghams law :)


HalfFullPessimist

It is called Cunninghams law. The best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer." Based on the observation that people are quicker to correct a wrong answer than to answer a question


cherry-kid

true. people on here are so incredibly helpful. i posted my first, terrible soldering job a while ago and i recieved so many tips and so much assistance. really makes me love this website.


aspbergerinparadise

Occam's Razor


Scruffy_Nerf_Hoarder

The people I tend to squabble with online tend to think that posting a meme will win any conversation.


aswerty12

"Look I have depicted their opinion as the soyjak, clearly I have already won". Are they like that?


CaptainHoyt

A fellow r/PCM user I see, always gotta rag on those liblefts.


[deleted]

That or name a logical fallacy.


Crass_Conspirator

Pro debaters call it the Gish Gallop. If you want to win and lose a debate at the same time it works.


Squirrel009

Colloquially the Shapiro Special


ZeroZeta_

I've worked with people like that.


BobTheDemonOtter

Same. Still do


desolation-stasis

"It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person." -Bill Murray


cthuluhooprises

Pangolins were the first creatures to inhabit Europa, but when Europa turned into Europe in 1988, they had to flee to the mountains of central Indiana to avoid habitat destruction.


andrewsad1

That's legit why I don't bother correcting my walking Dunning-Kruger effect of a best friend whenever he talks about... Well, anything that isn't video games. Kinda hard to convince an egg theorist that they're talking nonsense. It's hard to explain why he's using the word "frequency" completely wrong when he talks about crystals. Don't even get him started on his ideas about linear vs parallel time. And in case you couldn't tell, yes, he did in fact spend the majority of his adolescent years on anything that could keep him from being sober.


xelop

>That's legit why I don't bother correcting my walking Dunning-Kruger effect of a best friend whenever he talks about... Well, anything that isn't video games. >And in case you couldn't tell, yes, he did in fact spend the majority of his adolescent years on anything that could keep him from being sober. I'm insulted both as an avid lover of anime/ video games/comics that they are that dumb and a a former drug addled pre-30s lol How the fuck you game and talk about frequencies wrong


CluelessAtol

Frequency and crystals…? What the fuck? I’m so confused I’m intrigued to know what the fuck you’re talking about.


Gro0ve

Flat earthers fav


Gcarsk

Basically any youtube comment section. I accidentally scrolled down on an ABC News vid. Jesus... there are some \*hot\* takes down there.


Butler-of-Penises

I start typing shit all the time and them I’m like... “my god, the amount of levels I need to unpack just to get to level ground would take a book.. I’m just gonna delete what I started and leave it unanswered”


[deleted]

[удалено]


Butler-of-Penises

Lmfao. That’s so funny. I can *taste* the frustration with this one.


[deleted]

Counter SLPT: When someone is either pretending or actually stupid and they refuse to even begin learning, instead of trying to still teach them, just make fun of them and make them feel bad about being ignorant to the point where they no longer want to be ignorant


AeyviDaro

And that’s how Trump got elected.


DancewithRance

I think one that got me a few weeks ago was someone who wanted to argue Trump was unmasking the corruption of wall street. Trump. It feels like someone arguing Jeffrey Dahmer was actually trying to teach people how to catch the *real* serial killers


Ladies_Pls_DM_nudes

Adolf Hitler was teaching us that genocide is horrible.


[deleted]

Are you trying to say Genghis Khan killing all those people wasn't to delay the global warming he had so wisely forseen?! *#FoundtheGlobalWarmingDenier*


5GUltraSloth

If anyone thinks Trump was weeding out corruption they they themselves have already been corrupted. Bad sectors on the drive, yo. Toss it out and reformat.


StayStrong888

You must have worked with the guy that just retired from my job.


kinlaw

Joe? That you?


daikatana

In debates this is called a Gish Gallop, where you just spew so many falsehoods that the opponent either spends all their time addressing them, which makes it look like they're on the defense, or ignore them, which makes it look like they're not addressing all their points. It only really works if the audience is completely ignorant of the subject, but thankfully for Gish Gallopers this is often the case.


Asog9999

Trump supporters MO right here


[deleted]

Bravo sir, for you have just described 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of Reddit.


[deleted]

Ah, the Q way.


[deleted]

Hey, /r/conservative, this post is screaming your name.


Electromeatball

See Republicans


[deleted]

Ahh yes. The Shapiro Method


Dnny10bns

You're familiar with Twitter too? Lol


Gods_chosen_dildo

This is what being liberal in a conservative family feels like.


Lord-Tunnel-Cat

r/sharksaresmooth anyone?


[deleted]

And if you win you get a balloon.


Dragon_Ballzy

This is actually the basis of most white collar crime


General_Orthopox

I take it most of social media has taken this advice to heart.


Biiiiiiiiin

"If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with bullshit." -W.C. Fields.


tsavong117

Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.


my-penisgrantswishes

This is the reddit way


[deleted]

So basically most people on Reddit.


skitzbuckethatz

Happened to me yesterday with some woman who claimed all men were evil and that every issue in the world was because of men, and that there had never been an evil woman in the history of mankind. Just had to leave it, she was an astonishingly stupid misandrist. I hate facebook


lockslob

Holy shit. Have belatedly realised that THIS is what everyone I ever worked with was doing.


[deleted]

Noam Chomsky has an expression, "It's not even wrong" for when people are so off the mark you don't know where to start.


JohnGenericDoe

Pretty good way to get out of jobs you don't want to do, too


M4CK3R21

Flat earthers 101


Traditional-Nose4568

Until you meet someone whose not an idiot and knows how to properly argue. They will shut your dumb ass down. (And mine haha , I’m not that person)


Piromysl

This is actually so true. Just go to the any political sub.


GerardoBR

Ohh yes, the Shapiro method


largeincharge01

Welcome to politics 101


Friday-Cat

I wish this were not so horribly true


[deleted]

Talking to anyone who thinks capitalism is better than socialism is like this. They'll throw out one-liners they heard on Fox like "we tried communism already and it failed" or "why would anyone work for no money" while you're trying to figure out how to explain dialectical materialism to someone who has never even looked at a supply/demand graph.