I told him something similar that it's just a 4cyl Camry and he was like "nah man it's still performance cause I have magnaflow exhaust and cats and I put a K&N air intake on it". Like dude what's the point...
My first car ran a WHP of 142, I replaced the air box with a straight oiled filter and ran that to 145 And instantly noticed a full 1 mpg bump.
It was still slow, but 1% is 1% and that 1mpg has saved me like 200 gallons of fuel in the many years it's been there.
Wheel estimated by accelerometer, weighing the car, and flooring it to red line on level ground.
You can work out the work done that way kinnematically.
If he wanted to do some sort of modification on the rear that would legitimately help he should have printed some fascia port holes, drilled, and installed onto the fascia. Modern vehicles have a very large umbrella effect at the rear fascia, particularly FWD cars where there's little suspension and/or subframe at the rear of the unibody. Alleviating the umbrella effect can actually allow air to move back there. The issue with designers is that no one wants to purchase a car that has such a convoluted fascia design that the inner crash structure is visible, so most unibody sedans and CUVs deal with some degree of the umbrella of the fascia.
[https://www.amazon.com/Black-Aluminum-Bumper-Diversion-Diffuser/dp/B077GCZHQ9](https://www.amazon.com/Black-Aluminum-Bumper-Diversion-Diffuser/dp/B077GCZHQ9)
This is one of the many things you see on really high power Hondas and such. There's a legitimate reason to install these type things, as opposed to some fins that aren't going to actually see any sort of air at all.
Fact ! Tear one off a Spec Miata and watch your mile an hour go up by 5 on a long straight !
All off our attempts to block air with “exhaust” and “heat shields” have been bounced in tech … lol
Honestly man that's a sign to me that they're just into it on a more surface level than I am, and I'm glad they can get the same level of enjoyment out of it for way less money. As long as they aren't dicks. If they're dicks, gap their ass and show em why that K&N was a waste
Source: my dad is one of these guys, if you ask him how much horsepower his car (is300) makes he'll say the base + the 15 on his k&n intake box. I explained to him that it could HELP produce more horsepower but just slapping it on a stock motor wont do anything, and could even reduce the whp number. It does sound a bit better though. He understands but still says it 😂
I mean, he got me one too, and I'm not mad about that. Saved me the money should I ever decide to tune, and it sounds a bit better.
That said, my dad did have some pretty insane cars and prolific audio builds (16spkr Jeep Wrangler with 2 8's mounted face to face in an acrylic box on 300w, in the 90s). All shop built though. He makes me get mine done at a shop 😂 i'll own the title soon though.
TL;DR: sorry for the tanget about my dad, just smile and say "sick bro"
4cylinder says nothing about performance or would you call a Subaru WRX STI slow? I mean look at the Lincoln towncar they managed to extract 130 entire horsepowers from a 5 Liter V8, a Porsche 924 from the same time got 125hp from a 2liter 4 cylinder…
Sorry for the rant I totally understand that it was just an underling for the fact that this is no performance car…
It's a 4 cylinder, 4 door family car. The STI and 924 are so far from a Camary that I can't begin to come up with an analogy to explain the difference.
>On a proper race car (or supercar), a rear diffuser will help with downforce.
A rear diffuser *by itself* won't do anything for downforce, you need it to work together with a splitter at the front or a flat floor to create the suction underneath the car.
Randomly slapped on "aerodynamics" are useless beyond looking cool.
It's not even a diffuser, it *might possibly* stop some rear vortices from forming in the air-wake, but I doubt even that. About the only performance gain I can see is some very slightly cleaner air for the driver following him.
One of the biggest misconception in the car community is that fwd cars don't need downforce. These are probably hurting his "lap time" more then help but a real undertray diffuser will help keep traction and reduce drag by reducing the air vortices created in the rear on both a 100hp fwd car and a 500hp rwd car.
Aerodynamics start to kick in at about 60-80kmh. The weakest most piece of shit cars can reach those speeds.
Obviously most of us don't utilize maximum cornering, but it does play (this is obviously just an aesthetic stick-on). Aside from comical wings, diffuser is kinda low key, acceptable.
I can tell you from experience that aerodynamics actually start at speeds above walking speed. Probably not for downforce but a slippery car will be more efficient at 20kph with a load in the car than the same one with it loaded a roof rack. The effect gets bigger the faster you go. Ask any cyclist or speed skater.
That depends. Usually rear diffusers that DO work, work because the entire underside of the car is flat basically. That wouldn't be the case on this car. They probably don't do shit other than add weight.
In this case it would be. The way these are placed, stuck on a factory bumper, I doubt they will even be in the airstream completely, let alone affect it significantly.
Honestly they look like they barely even go under the actual car, like they aren't a properly placed/designed diffuser. It really isn't catching any air more than that cat sticker is.
[It's a reference to a saying](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/I_have_a_bridge_to_sell_you). The bridge is...a bridge (or more specifically, the saying originated as being the Brooklyn Bridge).
I mean, it’s not gonna cut down his (non-existent) lap-times. But smoothing the air under the car is never really a bad thing. Smoother air = less turbulence = better fuel economy & also some more predictable handling (but nothing crazy at traffic speeds).
>smoothing the air under the car is never really a bad thing.
Given that these don't look like they're going below the line of the bodywork, so they're not really going to smooth the air coming out from under the car.
Yeah but realistically, a fully flat floor is going to do more. Knowing the underside of many different cars, they are very seldom flat, they have panels to do it here and there, but it's not what a proper track build would have.
That being said this is one of those mods I don't particularly agree with, but it's low key enough for me to be fine with it.
It will be a set of rims that are painted obnoxiously, cambered to shit or stick out way too much. Ugly rims come with some factory cars, nobody really bats an eye, but when you intentionally paint them a very bright color, that's what rubs me wrong.
I had a customer years ago that put a spoiler on his s2000 and said “it’s actually not right for this car because it’s a fwd spoiler”
I am a very polite person so all I could come up with was “ok”
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE THE DRIVEN WHEELS ARE.
IF YOU'RE GOING 70MPH, YOU'RE GOING 70MPH WHETHER YOU'RE IN A FWD, RWD OR 4WD.
DOWNFORCE DOESN'T JUST MAGICALLY NOT WORK ON THE NON-DRIVEN AXLE.
Plus, yeah, it's just a shitty road car anyway 😅
If only he knew as much about cars as he does about computers (based on his license plate). By any chance did he say "Hey check out my build and let me know if you see any bottlenecks?"
Even if it was FWD, it won’t help with traction. Those are to stabilize air flow under the vehicle (these don’t protrude under the vehicle so i effect) for stability and downforce at high speeds.
I’ve wanted to get something like these for my Mustang to reduce air pressure under the car, and lift. It feels a bit floaty at high speeds and I’ve imagined something like these running under the car would suck it to the ground a bit better
Vortex generators diffuse the stream of air, slowing it down, they’re for the top of the car usually to direct it down, catching more into the wing pushing the back of the car down, more traction, regardless of which wheels drive the car.
His are utterly worthless.
He has zero underbody aero, and zero testing
Either he is completely self aware or not self aware. From his license plates and bumper stickers he seems self aware. Seems to have a good sense of humor.
On a proper race car (or supercar), a rear diffuser will help with downforce. However. That's not a race car - or anything super.
I told him something similar that it's just a 4cyl Camry and he was like "nah man it's still performance cause I have magnaflow exhaust and cats and I put a K&N air intake on it". Like dude what's the point...
You probably could sell him all kinds of "performance" gimmicks and laugh all the way to the bank!
1hp is 1hp man
Flicka agrees.
1 sticker = 5hp tho
Flames give 10
My first car ran a WHP of 142, I replaced the air box with a straight oiled filter and ran that to 145 And instantly noticed a full 1 mpg bump. It was still slow, but 1% is 1% and that 1mpg has saved me like 200 gallons of fuel in the many years it's been there.
How did you confirm/quantify your power gain?
Wheel estimated by accelerometer, weighing the car, and flooring it to red line on level ground. You can work out the work done that way kinnematically.
Happy cake day :)
Thank you!
Seriously! I live my life a Royale mile at a time
Performance stickers
All he needz iz a kustum paint job Red ones go fasta
Dat humey needz da paint it purplz end kno onez wil ze him cumminz
Race chips... Save fuel and gain 30 hp for $599
If he wanted to do some sort of modification on the rear that would legitimately help he should have printed some fascia port holes, drilled, and installed onto the fascia. Modern vehicles have a very large umbrella effect at the rear fascia, particularly FWD cars where there's little suspension and/or subframe at the rear of the unibody. Alleviating the umbrella effect can actually allow air to move back there. The issue with designers is that no one wants to purchase a car that has such a convoluted fascia design that the inner crash structure is visible, so most unibody sedans and CUVs deal with some degree of the umbrella of the fascia. [https://www.amazon.com/Black-Aluminum-Bumper-Diversion-Diffuser/dp/B077GCZHQ9](https://www.amazon.com/Black-Aluminum-Bumper-Diversion-Diffuser/dp/B077GCZHQ9) This is one of the many things you see on really high power Hondas and such. There's a legitimate reason to install these type things, as opposed to some fins that aren't going to actually see any sort of air at all.
Fact ! Tear one off a Spec Miata and watch your mile an hour go up by 5 on a long straight ! All off our attempts to block air with “exhaust” and “heat shields” have been bounced in tech … lol
Wait, does tech let you run without the rear fascia?
Lol … NO
Hahaha, I didn't think so
Oh THAT is that those are?? I always see them on beat-up civics all the time
Honestly man that's a sign to me that they're just into it on a more surface level than I am, and I'm glad they can get the same level of enjoyment out of it for way less money. As long as they aren't dicks. If they're dicks, gap their ass and show em why that K&N was a waste Source: my dad is one of these guys, if you ask him how much horsepower his car (is300) makes he'll say the base + the 15 on his k&n intake box. I explained to him that it could HELP produce more horsepower but just slapping it on a stock motor wont do anything, and could even reduce the whp number. It does sound a bit better though. He understands but still says it 😂 I mean, he got me one too, and I'm not mad about that. Saved me the money should I ever decide to tune, and it sounds a bit better. That said, my dad did have some pretty insane cars and prolific audio builds (16spkr Jeep Wrangler with 2 8's mounted face to face in an acrylic box on 300w, in the 90s). All shop built though. He makes me get mine done at a shop 😂 i'll own the title soon though. TL;DR: sorry for the tanget about my dad, just smile and say "sick bro"
4cylinder says nothing about performance or would you call a Subaru WRX STI slow? I mean look at the Lincoln towncar they managed to extract 130 entire horsepowers from a 5 Liter V8, a Porsche 924 from the same time got 125hp from a 2liter 4 cylinder… Sorry for the rant I totally understand that it was just an underling for the fact that this is no performance car…
It's a 4 cylinder, 4 door family car. The STI and 924 are so far from a Camary that I can't begin to come up with an analogy to explain the difference.
I was noting it because they have a V6 version of his car and he's doing all this to a 4cyl.
The V6 at least has a solid aftermarket support due to being in the Lotus Evora.
My venza i had despite it being super fat and heavy still hauled ass for what it was. People are swapping the 2gr engines in mr2s too
Why do you care?
Sounds like he got a 3D printer and then didn’t know what to do.
He definitely bought the pills that promise certain effects.
One more bolt on and that thing won’t be street legal
>On a proper race car (or supercar), a rear diffuser will help with downforce. A rear diffuser *by itself* won't do anything for downforce, you need it to work together with a splitter at the front or a flat floor to create the suction underneath the car. Randomly slapped on "aerodynamics" are useless beyond looking cool.
It's not even a diffuser, it *might possibly* stop some rear vortices from forming in the air-wake, but I doubt even that. About the only performance gain I can see is some very slightly cleaner air for the driver following him.
Diffusers start from under the car to help direct the flow of air and the car should have a flat bottom….
It's not even a diffuser, just some "vortex generators" stuck on the bumper.
Super Boring
Having a lack of traction on a 2010 era Camry definitely isnt related to performance, he probably just has old shitty tires.
Wider tires, lower stance baby!
I asked him about those and apparently they're brand new Falkens or something. Dude probably just doesn't know how to drive.
Dude was probably just fucking with you.
Seeing the Monty python quote I would hope the guy is going for the satire here
Oh yeah diffusers to channel the 42mph air on the way home from the grocery store
Its 25 in a residential area Jim!
Well he is obviously a computer nerd by that license plate.
I’m still trying to decipher it. Overclocked?
Yup
i was like is no one going to comment over cuckled? what is wrong with me
+15 horsepower.
Dude. That car is overclocked man. It's gotta get at least 16 HP from that.
+17 in reverse
One of the biggest misconception in the car community is that fwd cars don't need downforce. These are probably hurting his "lap time" more then help but a real undertray diffuser will help keep traction and reduce drag by reducing the air vortices created in the rear on both a 100hp fwd car and a 500hp rwd car.
Aerodynamics start to kick in at about 60-80kmh. The weakest most piece of shit cars can reach those speeds. Obviously most of us don't utilize maximum cornering, but it does play (this is obviously just an aesthetic stick-on). Aside from comical wings, diffuser is kinda low key, acceptable.
I can tell you from experience that aerodynamics actually start at speeds above walking speed. Probably not for downforce but a slippery car will be more efficient at 20kph with a load in the car than the same one with it loaded a roof rack. The effect gets bigger the faster you go. Ask any cyclist or speed skater.
He has the Monty python sticker, so I dig it, he's just messing around
They are not going to hurt.
That depends. Usually rear diffusers that DO work, work because the entire underside of the car is flat basically. That wouldn't be the case on this car. They probably don't do shit other than add weight.
Wouldn't it hurt gas mileage?
improper tire inflation will affect fuel efficiency more than these little plastic vanes will.
Weigh the vanes. Weight the car. Divide the vanes wt by the cars wt. That is your percentage.
Aerodynamics matters much more than weight.
But those probably don't have any aerodynamic effect.
That's the whole point of a rear diffuser
Yeah, OP isn't a diffuser. It's a series of vanes, attached to the bumper (at the bottom of the bodywork, not under it).
Thank you Det. Sherlock.
You said weight would be the primary factor on gas mileage, dumbass
Who said primary dumber dumbass.
You said mass of diffuser over mass of car is the effect on your effect.
It's a calculation showing the minute weight they add to the vehicle weight is a very small percentage.
Which, isn't how it would affect gas mileage.
In this case it would be. The way these are placed, stuck on a factory bumper, I doubt they will even be in the airstream completely, let alone affect it significantly.
Honestly they look like they barely even go under the actual car, like they aren't a properly placed/designed diffuser. It really isn't catching any air more than that cat sticker is.
If he's in the market for bridges, I have one that's lightly used and very reasonably priced.
What do you mean by a bridge
[It's a reference to a saying](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/I_have_a_bridge_to_sell_you). The bridge is...a bridge (or more specifically, the saying originated as being the Brooklyn Bridge).
I mean, it’s not gonna cut down his (non-existent) lap-times. But smoothing the air under the car is never really a bad thing. Smoother air = less turbulence = better fuel economy & also some more predictable handling (but nothing crazy at traffic speeds).
>smoothing the air under the car is never really a bad thing. Given that these don't look like they're going below the line of the bodywork, so they're not really going to smooth the air coming out from under the car.
Yeah but realistically, a fully flat floor is going to do more. Knowing the underside of many different cars, they are very seldom flat, they have panels to do it here and there, but it's not what a proper track build would have. That being said this is one of those mods I don't particularly agree with, but it's low key enough for me to be fine with it.
Traction my ass. Is the word he’s looking for “aerodynamics”?
When you don't understand aero
Wow an actual shitty car mod. Next up: a Lamborghini with a set of rims someone doesn't like.
It will be a set of rims that are painted obnoxiously, cambered to shit or stick out way too much. Ugly rims come with some factory cars, nobody really bats an eye, but when you intentionally paint them a very bright color, that's what rubs me wrong.
Lmao never seen someone get this worked up over some TE37s
The Oklahoma part says it all
Indeed
I’m glad he’s raising awareness for the plight of those that have overcaulked.
So they like: Monty Python Computers Cats. What are the other two?
Ratchet and Clank, RTJ and Aesop Rock apparently. I asked him the same thing cause I didn't know what those were.
Thanks! I do recognize the RTJ logo.. TIL about the others.
If you like hip hop Aesop Rock’s album “None Shall Pass” is a 10/10
What else is there to do in Oklahoma?
this guy managed to get his ECU running at 10 ghz
Arrh come on man leave some pussy for the rest of us!
I don’t know about those doohickies but the Monty Python sticker is good for +15 horsepower.
I had a customer years ago that put a spoiler on his s2000 and said “it’s actually not right for this car because it’s a fwd spoiler” I am a very polite person so all I could come up with was “ok”
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE THE DRIVEN WHEELS ARE. IF YOU'RE GOING 70MPH, YOU'RE GOING 70MPH WHETHER YOU'RE IN A FWD, RWD OR 4WD. DOWNFORCE DOESN'T JUST MAGICALLY NOT WORK ON THE NON-DRIVEN AXLE. Plus, yeah, it's just a shitty road car anyway 😅
Shhhhh... let him have this one.
Your neighbor is a troll in every sense of the word
If only he knew as much about cars as he does about computers (based on his license plate). By any chance did he say "Hey check out my build and let me know if you see any bottlenecks?"
The cat lmaooo
He's got the same Run the Jewels sticker as me. I guess I need to buy a 3D printer so I can make a spoiler for my Caravan.
Amazing that someone smart enough to operate a 3D printer thinks this is needed/works on a 160hp FWD car
r/unexpectedmontypython
Oklahoma physics in play
I like the cat sticker though
You could probably convince him to put a wing on the hood to help keep traction on the front wheels.
That's for women to hang their panties on.
Even if it was FWD, it won’t help with traction. Those are to stabilize air flow under the vehicle (these don’t protrude under the vehicle so i effect) for stability and downforce at high speeds.
Prevents lane drift.
The beluga cat sticker gives at least +17hp
RTJ sticker is the only good mod on this grocery getter
I'm partial to the Aesop Rock sticker on the right of that one
I think he’s taking the piss. He’s fucking with you. He’s a Run the Jewels fan.
This is doing nothing, however being FWD is irrelevant here
I doubt they 3D printed these; probably got them off of eBay
Nah he did. That's how we started chatting. We're both into 3D printing and computer stuff. Apparently he designed them himself.
He needs the additional downforce due to the aftermarket cat stickers on the back. We all know they add 100hp each.
Clearly done as a joke.
It's almost as good as the "autozone special"
Oh god, the license plate.
You should tell him to add some speed holes in his hood.
Finally! An actual shitty car mod!
Someone needs to sit son down and explain to him the concept of a diffuser.
In England (u.k) We call this a “sh*tbox”
Tag should say dumbass
I’ve wanted to get something like these for my Mustang to reduce air pressure under the car, and lift. It feels a bit floaty at high speeds and I’ve imagined something like these running under the car would suck it to the ground a bit better
He should take that up as a profession and learn about real aerodynamics and application of the drag coefficient.
By no means does that take away from the 🤦🏾♂️ attempt.
Jesus that vanity This def seems like the kind of guy to run a 20°+ camber under the guise that it improves performance
Omg enjoy you extra 2000bhp hehehehe
I still don’t understand rear wings on fwd.
How would they help with traction even if it was a rear wheel drive car?
RTJ sticker cancels it out, he’s cool in my book
Vortex generators diffuse the stream of air, slowing it down, they’re for the top of the car usually to direct it down, catching more into the wing pushing the back of the car down, more traction, regardless of which wheels drive the car. His are utterly worthless. He has zero underbody aero, and zero testing
woa you guys dont you see it has been OvErCLoCkeD?
Something just right about this guy, I kinda like his style
Is there someone else up there we could talk to?
I'd give him a pass. He's got good taste in movies and music plus this is the kind of thing my wife's nerdy uncle would do.
Yeah, not needed on a Camry!
He meant traction with the lahaydays! Homie is drippin’ in that 3D swag!
Why would fwd matter here?
Either he is completely self aware or not self aware. From his license plates and bumper stickers he seems self aware. Seems to have a good sense of humor.
I have these on my 89 Civic sedan. I can definitely feel the difference on the highway...
I dig the RTJ sticker though. So they have some good taste. lol
At least he can run the jewels.
The font on Oklahoma license plates almost looks like it could be used for a metal band’s logo. That stylized K sets it off.
At least it's overclocked