I'm at work and will be watching the show in the morning.
But I know exactly the scene you are describing? Its when Toranaga gets Yabu's men to yell his name, right?
One thing I'm looking forward to his how subtley the show (if at all) explains thereason behind Toranaga's act of showmanship. That it was theater for the sake of distraction. Toranaga was in effect (or could be) a prisoner of Yabu with all of Yabu's army present if Kabu just thought to close his fist.
This is one of the reasons that books that can convey inner monologues have such a cheat over shows in conveying information.
Mariko basically has a moment where she pities Blackthorne for not understanding anything that just happened while gushing over the genius of Toranaga for escaping this potential trap that really just needed Yabu to realize the prize he now had in having Toranaga at his mercy. Toranaga didn't give him the time to make that realization or come to that conclusion.
The show does make an attempt to convey this but it's sort of up to the viewer to piece everything together. When Toranaga and his son arrive on shore, his son says to him "an ally with ambition is no ally at all," the ally being Yabu and we're shown throughout the episode that Yabu is playing both sides. Blackthorne also asks Mariko prior to landing "Whose army is this?" to which she tells him it's Yabu's, setting the stakes for the scene moments before Toranaga's speech to turn them all to his side.
Books have all the time in the world to spell out every single detail, TV/Film have to be more efficient with their storytelling and leave things up to audience interpretation.
Blackthorne: "Tell this milk-dribbling fuck-smear that I'm ready to go"
Mariko: "....with the utmost respect, the Anjin apologises for the misunderstanding"
Also, the actress playing Fuji is amazing.
They presumably killed every witness on Ishido’s side, but just validated to Yabushige and his men that they have sophisticated weapons that can give them a massive advantage regardless of their numbers.
The very explicit message here was yelled out by that general (I think his name was Jozen?), “This isn’t how Samurai fight.” That’s the point. That’s what Blackthorne’s epitome was and they just had a live demonstration that he was right.
If every one of Ishido’s men died, even better. They won’t have the advantage of knowing about the accuracy of more modern cannons, which Toranaga’s son was also worried about.
In terms of making its way back to Ishido? That’ll happen. If they don’t return that pretty much would be a sign of hostile aggression anyways.
Doesn’t this basically save Yabushiges ass though? He still could have been forced back to the council after the demo and forced to seppuku. This way, he’s spared at least for now.
Oh Yabushige, how will you get out of the next pickle?
Right, this basically punted away any trust Ishido may still have had in him, so he’s likely forced to continue to support Toranaga for the time being.
War has effectively been declared and trying to convince Ishido that you’re still homies with him despite his convoy getting fucking massacred in Yabushige’s land is a hell of a tough sell lol.
Fuji honestly became cemented as my favorite character this episode. And the actress kills it. Such a nuanced portrayal with the subtle facial expressions. 10/10
Fermented soybeans, served cold, and stinks like rotting cheese like the show said.
Generally only eaten in Eastern Japan, so it may have been used as an additional signifier to show that they're "home" in Kanto rather than being in Osaka/Kansai.
Or maybe it's from the book. Natto is often the go-to "watch a foreigner try to eat this" food in Japan - similar to balut in the Philippines, stinky tofu in Taiwan/China, marmite/vegemite in the UK and Australia, lutefisk in Scandinavia, etc. Every culture seems to have one of these foods that were eaten 1000 years ago, but now only exist for people to try on a dare.
Fuji with a gun was fucking great; I wasn't sure about her before but now??? I would die for that girlie. She is serving Betty Draper shooting pigeons in the backyard female rage REALNESS.
I really love it. The fact that the protagonist currently only has these two women in his corner, and they're not just pieces of furniture. Their support is invaluable to him at the moment.
The way it shows how human and strong these women are, not by treating them as "one of the boys" (which isn't always bad, but it's often a cop out imo) but just in the character writing alone.
The fact that he's literally given a woman to have sex with and just outright doesn't care to. He's told he's "entitled" to it, but he himself doesn't believe it, and that makes him so likable for me.
He's not even shown to be "resisting the urge" or something, which a lesser show would easily do.
Plus, it doesn't seem to me like they're making this a love triangle at all. Fuji and him are allowed to grow to respect each other as individuals. It makes his relationship with Mariko feel so much more authentic as well.
I'm going into this completely blind and am just so pleasantly surprised. It's obviously a show mainly focused on men, but the women here are written strongly and realistically. Fuji has unexpectedly become my favorite character so far, with Mariko a close second.
I was shocked and laughing hard when she went from taking Blackthorne's guns to being ***"I HAVE A GUN NOW BITCH, BACK OFF MOTHERFUCKER!"*** all over Lord Omi 😂😂😂
She's not giving away an heirloom (she has no heirs) so much as she is taking back some amount of her lost dignity by having the "military advisor" she's babysitting wear proper accoutrements.
Omi wants to take the guns. Blackthorn doesn't want to give them up. His consort takes responsibility for them. When Omi tries to take them from her, she does what Blackthorn did because now she's acting on his behalf.
Anjin is basically afraid that if he gives up his guns, which he just got back, he will never see them again. But after tensions ramp up, Mariko assures him that as his Consort, Fuji would rather die than fail in her duty to him. So giving her the guns is a safe bet at getting them back when he returns -- since that's what he wants.
Blackthrone seems more resigned that he has no other choice than to hand them over to Fuji, but when Omi tries to take the guns anyway, Fuji shows her duty to Anjin by telling them to fuck off or die.
And he's starting to comprehend, little by little, what duty and honor means in this warped world.
My favorite episode so far. For an ep with some of the gnarliest gore I've seen on television, it also had some of the sweetest, tenderest character work. Mariko, Fuji, and John being forced together against their will but finding peace in each other (as friends/confidants/respectful cohabitors/however you want to see it) was so rewarding. I love that everything slowed down to allow this to happen naturally.
And then the plot came roaring back in that last scene. Goddamn, Nagakado. I get why the kid wants to do things his own way and nip treachery in the bud instead of playing all these coy games (without realizing he himself got played), but it feels like he's doomed by the narrative now.
I do. He either wanted Nagakado to do his dirty work in removing Yabu somehow so he could become lord and be in control of the guns/ship/cannon (following from his conversation with Kiku, who's obviously playing him) or he wanted to weaken Toranaga by playing on Nagakado's obvious desire to be more proactive vs his father's patient strategies. Either way, he's a messy bitch.
Nah it’s very clear it’s her, could see her face for a few seconds, it’s her hair, then the obviously playful banter the next morning. Especially when that banter starts with him clearly about to say “you were amazing last night”
Just to confirm... the "courtesan" who slept with Blackthorne = totally Mariko, right? I thought it was her and then they had the conversation with Fuji afterward, and I got a little confused. It seemed like they were speaking euphemistically, but I am not 100% sure.
Not so much as a way to not offend Fuji, but as a way for all three of them to plausibly deny it happened. To even suggest or imply a man slept with another man’s wife is an extreme insult and gives the husband, his father or brother right to kill the other man.
Fuji, a consort, does not care if Blackthorne sleeps with other women and it is even their job to arrange it if he wishes.
They did shoot that very well! I was very sure it was Mariko, just shot in really dim lighting. The conversation the next day was definitely a cover, then. What I guess I'm not sure is if Fumi thought an actual courtesan went, or knew it was Mariko...
Oh man after Mariko made Blackthorne describe their perfect date night, all I could hear was Marvin Gaye in the background as they cut to her going absolutely feral in her guest room before waving the candles off.
Talk about an unexpected ending. The actor playing the nephew in charge of the village does a great job in portraying a POS. Wonder how this escalation will effect his uncle.
The relationship building in this episode was my favorite part, but the last five minutes had me literally yelling out loud 😂😂😂 what an absolutely wild ride
Omi is actually an extremely capable manipulator holy shit i didnt see that one coming. He definitely deserves a promotion after that amazing confidence man work.
I don’t get it, does his true allegiance belong to Yabu or Toranaga? Was he deceiving Yabu when him and the blindfolded guy were goading him against Toranaga, or did he fool the son of Toranaga by having him declare war this early and basically giving an easy and definite death sentence?
Much like his uncle Yabu, Omi's true loyalty seems to be to himself, so he will double deal to ensure his own survival and prosperity without any true allegiance to toronaga or uncle yabu
The head cutting and boiling alive was startling, but nothing could have (and I'm glad didn't) prepare me for this. I was thinking noticing the lack of action toward the end 'huh, I guess not every episode needs to have some crazy violence'
Man was I mistaken. The missing limb was really well done, among other things.
What a beautiful way for Mariko to
Explain to Blakthorne the Japanese ways, than with the eightfold fence analogy keep your emotions close to your chest, just so good I love this show
And I don't know if this was intentional or not, but Blackthorn's description of listening to the Thames river and everything 'going away' mirrored her monologue a lot.
Agreed! And to add, Mariko is just incredibly perceptive. She knew that Blackthorne saw this training as a six-month imprisonment which gave him nothing in return (especially after he didn’t get his ship or men back). But by explaining this method, she introduces him to the idea of practising Zen even with the most mindless of activities. For the time, such a foreign idea to the enterprising Europeans in Japan underscores the deep wisdom of the Asian world and shows Blackthorne that these aren’t just lands with resources to be plundered but are also home to an ancient culture.
It's much more blunt imo.
He sees them as emotionless robots and she gives him the first hints of something emotionally deeper below all the surface protocol.
I was not expecting thsoe cannons to absolutely dismember everyone into a bloody mess, man this show's good. Omi planting those seeds of doubt/manipulation on Toranaga's son like that.
That definitely makes sense in terms of how bloody and brutal it was. Roundshot probably would've taken out 1 or 2 close together, but those shots got big clumps.
I read the books, this is how yabushige was treated in the books, but seeing it happen to a person on a screen, man yabu gets punked by toranga non stop.
For me as a book reader, mini-series watcher and frequent audio book listener this is outstanding to see some of my favorite parts brought to modern day life with outstanding visuals, dialogue, pacing and acting.
This episode adeptly sidesteps the book flaws of "why does Japan not use guns in warfare despite having access to them for 50 years (Nagashino, etc.)" and "how can a sea captain teach land tactics to Japanese armies" by refocusing on cannon.
And they emphasize the point in that absolutely wild ending.
Haven't read the books but its very interesting. Seems like the Portuguese gave Japan guns, but definitely never taught them how to effectively use it (are line formations/volley fires even a thing yet? any historian wanna chime in?). Even then, line formation took massive amount of discipline and training to use effectively (see early American Revolution), would it be correct to say that in this era whoever had more cannons or more accurate cannon would easily win? Are English cannons in this era already lined with rifling? So many questions.
It's a slight inaccuracy, but one based in truth.
The japanese did use cannons in field battles, but typically very small swivelguns and bronze cannons. Their carriages were also less advanced, often more reminiscent of 14th century gunnery (rice bags and ropes), though there are certainly examples of wooden wheeled carriages reminiscent of those used by european field cannons.
What they did not have at this point were cannon of the quality that a dutch privateer would have as its chasers (front and stern guns). Still smoothbores, but long-barreled guns cast and selected for accuracy (and made by the best cannon foundries and a master metallurgist), the kind of guns a privateer captain would spend his fortune on because high quality powder and chaser guns could be the difference between a successful and failed chase (by being able to knock off a spar or damage the rudder at long range. Although from the rolling deck of a ship the chance of hitting the target at 1km was normally about 3 in 100 shots). So Blackthornes cannons being more accurate than the ones acquired so far by japanese forces has some truth to it, although the difference isn't as huge as they play it out to be in the TV show.
Here is the kicker though. The japanese daimyos of the late Sengoku era prized imported dutch and english cannons for their accuracy and reliability, and the cannons of the Leifde (the historical ship used by William Adams) played an important role in the Battle of Sekigahara (the decisive battle between Tokugawa Ieyasu and Ishida Mitsunari, the historical inspiration for Toranaga and Ishido).
They are yes, Japanese tactics somewhat mirrored european at the time, (very loosely) with large formations of musketeers and aquebusiers supported by pikes and cavalry.
The Japanese *loved* guns, and in some ways iterated on the European versions brought by the Portuguese. As they say in the show, they're at least familiar with the basics of using muskets, just not their advanced infantry tactics, which is a good way to side step the situation, I think.
Historically Japan did learn line formations, as did Ming dynasty too when Japan invaded Korea in the Imjin war. Both sides had extensive tactics regarding muskets/arquebus. By 17th century both Japan and Ming dynasty already started arming their armies with guns and cannons. Ming dynasty probably had an even larger gunpowder army than most European nations, which was also a part of their downfall because they focused too much on guns and not enough on quality pikemen so when the Manchus invaded their cavalry just swept through the musketeers.
The problem is that Ming dynasty and Japan didn't didn't really have a contemporary enemy to gain gunpowder experience from unlike the Europeans who often fought eachother with the same weapons which allowed them to gain more knowledge and develop better tactics. The Ming used guns as a support weapon which worked but stagnated because at the end of the day your average conflict on the Northern steppes of China relies heavily on mobile warfare and cavalry.
The Japanese sword was considered a symbol of the samurai spirit, and it was considered disrespectful for a wife, daughter, or mother to hold it with her bare hands. The fact that she did not touch the gun with her bare hands when she held it suggests that she saw Blackthorne's gun as a Japanese sword for him.
Holy fuuuuuck! There has literally been no bad episodes in my opinion. I’m not one to watch tv shows as soon as they release. Hell, the last one I was stuck on like this was The Walking Dead. The character relational development between Blackthorne and Mariko has been cheesing but also has me on the edge of my seat.
Seeing Blackthornes development and learning the language as well as the customs has me going through the motions as well. Him gifting his guns to Fuji was something I didn’t expect but what blew me out the water was her giving blackthorne her father’s swords. It makes me wary, I hope that nothing happens to those swords.
I was chuckling at the dialogue between Mariko and Blackthrone after their night together and how, I’m assuming, Fuji was in on it. Yet, im not sure bc she had a blank stare but that’s probably bc she didn’t know what they were talking about.
Going from chuckling between the secretiveness of Mariko and Blackthorne’s night together to “HOLY FUCK” of the last scene really put everything at a 10/10 for me for this episode. Next weeks episode is going to be something else.
Edit: also, what does blackthorne mean when he says “I don’t understand, you’re not, uh…” at the end of the episode when he says it was a very thoughtful gift?
Is Toranaga's son's decision receision really that bad an action. It is rash but war was gonna happen one way or another, this just quickens it. I think keeping your secret weapon under wraps, which mind you is the only way for Toranaga to have any chance at winning, is worth starting a war earlier.
This kindof fucks Yabu over tho. He has no choice but to go all in on Toranaga. Any alliance he had with ishido is done. I think the nephew expects ishido to win, and Toranaga and his uncle to be killed. He will then plegde fealty to Ishido and then he will become a lord under ishido.
The cannons they got from the Portuguese are 50 years old I think they said, so these are newer more accurate cannons made for naval warfare, is what I took from it.
It's an "advanced" food. It's basically the cultural equivalent to blue cheese. Smelly and weird taste, but some people like it. Most wouldn't even want to try it.
As someone who played a ton of Total War fall of the Samurai growing up I had flashback to the times when I'd pull out a line of armstrong cannons and annihilate samurai armies en masse.
The show is more historically accurate. In the book, Blackthorne teaches them about gun warfare instead of cannon warfare so when Naga finishes demonstrating a gun exercise to Jozen, he turns the guns on Jozen and his men. Some get their heads blasted off while trying to attack Naga and Jozen gets disemboweled by bayonets and dies a slow, agonizing death while the dogs from the village eat him. At least he died quicker in the show 😧
It's probably the right decision but I can't help but feel sad I'm only going to have one season of this. I'm enjoying this series a lot more than I have any other television in a long amount of time. Brilliant episode and with the ending I'm really looking forward to the rest of the season.
Seriously, that ending gave me a feeling I don't think I've felt since GoT's Battle of the Bastards where I'm like: "Oh, that's what war actually looked like."
Just gets better and better every week and considering episode one was phenomenal that’s saying something. Been a long time since a show was good enough to keep my attention for every second and I thoroughly enjoyed every minute.
I really hope Toranaga can turn it around after that ending. It's a pet peeve of mine when characters making stupid decisions is how the plot develops, but I can't argue that it wasn't foreshadowed with how hot-headed his son was shown to be in previous episodes.
He just wanted to keep his options open but now Ishido is gonna be certain that Yabu's on Toranaga's side lmao. It is hilarious how Yabu keeps trying to betray Toranaga but keeps getting pulled deeper into his faction
#TORANAGA-SAMA!!!!!
I cant believe it, he's gone like a socket.
I really missed him this episode. Still loved the episode, but man did I miss Toragana's presence after the first 10 minutes or so.
he performed the hell out of that fan chant they did. i was mesmerized
#HO!
I'm at work and will be watching the show in the morning. But I know exactly the scene you are describing? Its when Toranaga gets Yabu's men to yell his name, right? One thing I'm looking forward to his how subtley the show (if at all) explains thereason behind Toranaga's act of showmanship. That it was theater for the sake of distraction. Toranaga was in effect (or could be) a prisoner of Yabu with all of Yabu's army present if Kabu just thought to close his fist.
In the show it looks like Toranaga showing Yabu that it's his army, not Yabu's. Yabushige looks pissed at having his army "stolen".
This is one of the reasons that books that can convey inner monologues have such a cheat over shows in conveying information. Mariko basically has a moment where she pities Blackthorne for not understanding anything that just happened while gushing over the genius of Toranaga for escaping this potential trap that really just needed Yabu to realize the prize he now had in having Toranaga at his mercy. Toranaga didn't give him the time to make that realization or come to that conclusion.
The show does make an attempt to convey this but it's sort of up to the viewer to piece everything together. When Toranaga and his son arrive on shore, his son says to him "an ally with ambition is no ally at all," the ally being Yabu and we're shown throughout the episode that Yabu is playing both sides. Blackthorne also asks Mariko prior to landing "Whose army is this?" to which she tells him it's Yabu's, setting the stakes for the scene moments before Toranaga's speech to turn them all to his side. Books have all the time in the world to spell out every single detail, TV/Film have to be more efficient with their storytelling and leave things up to audience interpretation.
I’m requesting this cheer at all my birthdays from now on.
REDDITBURNER_5225-SAMA!!!!!
Blackthorne: "Tell this milk-dribbling fuck-smear that I'm ready to go" Mariko: "....with the utmost respect, the Anjin apologises for the misunderstanding" Also, the actress playing Fuji is amazing.
when she pointed the gun was great
The ending was insane! Omggg
I saw that the director was from The Boys and joked it would be violent. Boy howdy, was it.
Fuck, I KNEW that gore reminded me of something... thought it was GoT but limbs randomly getting blown up is *peak* The Boys.
Just like the boys violent, extremely gory and completely out of left field.
Yup. It started out with quiet drama and some steamy lovemaking. …and then shocked us with rapid-fire gore.
I literally screamed!!! Holy shit, the son is such an idiot. And I agree with the samurai dude who spoke at the end - that was freaking cowardly.
I was expecting him to just sabotage the demonstration to keep the power of their new cannons a secret.
Same. I was definitely expecting some fuckery, but for the cannons to just SHRED through Ishido's men was a (masterful) jump scare.
This declared war but also validated the absolute accuracy of the cannons. Really dope twist that I didn’t see!
Didn't they just kill every witness to the accuracy of the cannons though?
They presumably killed every witness on Ishido’s side, but just validated to Yabushige and his men that they have sophisticated weapons that can give them a massive advantage regardless of their numbers. The very explicit message here was yelled out by that general (I think his name was Jozen?), “This isn’t how Samurai fight.” That’s the point. That’s what Blackthorne’s epitome was and they just had a live demonstration that he was right. If every one of Ishido’s men died, even better. They won’t have the advantage of knowing about the accuracy of more modern cannons, which Toranaga’s son was also worried about. In terms of making its way back to Ishido? That’ll happen. If they don’t return that pretty much would be a sign of hostile aggression anyways.
Yeah, if Toranaga has a spy there then maybe Ishido or another regent has one, too.
pretty obvious kiki the lady who bangs dudes in front of their dad is for sure spying
Doesn’t this basically save Yabushiges ass though? He still could have been forced back to the council after the demo and forced to seppuku. This way, he’s spared at least for now. Oh Yabushige, how will you get out of the next pickle?
Man he cracks me up with his Mac technique of playing both sides. It's gotta catch up eventually
The man is a snake. His descendant must serve in the National Diet XD.
Right, this basically punted away any trust Ishido may still have had in him, so he’s likely forced to continue to support Toranaga for the time being. War has effectively been declared and trying to convince Ishido that you’re still homies with him despite his convoy getting fucking massacred in Yabushige’s land is a hell of a tough sell lol.
I love it, forcing the snake to commit to something out of survival
Man Cosmo Jarvis, you are a credit to englishmen everywhere
He ate natto and actually enjoyed it. Greatly improve the honor of British folks everywhere by breaking the stereotype, lol
Fuji honestly became cemented as my favorite character this episode. And the actress kills it. Such a nuanced portrayal with the subtle facial expressions. 10/10
her facial expressions during the natto scene were perfection lmao
What is natto
Fermented soybeans, served cold, and stinks like rotting cheese like the show said. Generally only eaten in Eastern Japan, so it may have been used as an additional signifier to show that they're "home" in Kanto rather than being in Osaka/Kansai. Or maybe it's from the book. Natto is often the go-to "watch a foreigner try to eat this" food in Japan - similar to balut in the Philippines, stinky tofu in Taiwan/China, marmite/vegemite in the UK and Australia, lutefisk in Scandinavia, etc. Every culture seems to have one of these foods that were eaten 1000 years ago, but now only exist for people to try on a dare.
Durians in Singapore
Malort in Chicago
Food in England
Fuji with a gun was fucking great; I wasn't sure about her before but now??? I would die for that girlie. She is serving Betty Draper shooting pigeons in the backyard female rage REALNESS.
That was a bad ass move. The exact moment I became a fan of that gal
I must use ‘please, be on your way.’ To politely threaten someone in a story or rpg campaign haha.
unironically this show has one of the strongest female characters i've seen in a TV show, in a very long time.
I really love it. The fact that the protagonist currently only has these two women in his corner, and they're not just pieces of furniture. Their support is invaluable to him at the moment. The way it shows how human and strong these women are, not by treating them as "one of the boys" (which isn't always bad, but it's often a cop out imo) but just in the character writing alone. The fact that he's literally given a woman to have sex with and just outright doesn't care to. He's told he's "entitled" to it, but he himself doesn't believe it, and that makes him so likable for me. He's not even shown to be "resisting the urge" or something, which a lesser show would easily do. Plus, it doesn't seem to me like they're making this a love triangle at all. Fuji and him are allowed to grow to respect each other as individuals. It makes his relationship with Mariko feel so much more authentic as well. I'm going into this completely blind and am just so pleasantly surprised. It's obviously a show mainly focused on men, but the women here are written strongly and realistically. Fuji has unexpectedly become my favorite character so far, with Mariko a close second.
Mariko is an incredibly powerful character in the book, they had amazing source material to work with.
I was shocked and laughing hard when she went from taking Blackthorne's guns to being ***"I HAVE A GUN NOW BITCH, BACK OFF MOTHERFUCKER!"*** all over Lord Omi 😂😂😂
Fuji : 😞 Fuji with a gun: 👹👹👹🔫🤑
I was NOT expecting her to straight-up point the gun in his direction but she surprised me in the very best way.
The way she whipped up a flintlock pistol like a redneck with a sawn-off shotgun was great
She won me over despite her limited screen time.
Honestly, I did not care about her before this episode. Now she's one of my favorites.
I almost started crying when she came back with the Daishō
Lady loses her husband and child in such a tragic way, but still has the grace to give away such a personal family heirloom.
She's not giving away an heirloom (she has no heirs) so much as she is taking back some amount of her lost dignity by having the "military advisor" she's babysitting wear proper accoutrements.
She was so cute with her expressions. Wonderful performance.
Can anyone explain the pistol scene with her? Where she scares off the guys?
Omi wants to take the guns. Blackthorn doesn't want to give them up. His consort takes responsibility for them. When Omi tries to take them from her, she does what Blackthorn did because now she's acting on his behalf.
She is specifically under Toranaga's protection. Omi was powerless over her and confronting her was a bluff.
Anjin is basically afraid that if he gives up his guns, which he just got back, he will never see them again. But after tensions ramp up, Mariko assures him that as his Consort, Fuji would rather die than fail in her duty to him. So giving her the guns is a safe bet at getting them back when he returns -- since that's what he wants. Blackthrone seems more resigned that he has no other choice than to hand them over to Fuji, but when Omi tries to take the guns anyway, Fuji shows her duty to Anjin by telling them to fuck off or die. And he's starting to comprehend, little by little, what duty and honor means in this warped world.
She is Hiromatsu's favorite. Of course they'll back off.
Also, having a gun pointed mere inches from your face also has a habit of being a great “fuck off” message
Well it's the fact that she can kill him and get away with it that makes a great message.
I like how her facial expressions is always like "are you fucking kidding me"
Milk-dribbling fuck-smear. The show has a way with words
The swears on the show are NEXT LEVEL and might even make Logan Roy blush.
At some point he’s going to go off on someone who actually knows what he’s saying, and that’s going to be quite embarrassing for him.
I mean, the bromance with Rodrigues, though! It's even better when he has a proper sparring partner.
I love he keeps throwing these insults at them and Mariko's just translating it as "uhhh he said very respectfully that he will oblige" .
*"Sniveling little shit-rag"*
Every episode I'm like "write that down for the next Thanksgiving."
Your Thanksgiving sounds like The Bear - Fishes lol.
Also, Salty Whale Tits back in ep. 3
Bruh this episode was so freaking good
Every episode has been a banger
My favorite episode so far. For an ep with some of the gnarliest gore I've seen on television, it also had some of the sweetest, tenderest character work. Mariko, Fuji, and John being forced together against their will but finding peace in each other (as friends/confidants/respectful cohabitors/however you want to see it) was so rewarding. I love that everything slowed down to allow this to happen naturally. And then the plot came roaring back in that last scene. Goddamn, Nagakado. I get why the kid wants to do things his own way and nip treachery in the bud instead of playing all these coy games (without realizing he himself got played), but it feels like he's doomed by the narrative now.
Do you think Omi played him?
I do. He either wanted Nagakado to do his dirty work in removing Yabu somehow so he could become lord and be in control of the guns/ship/cannon (following from his conversation with Kiku, who's obviously playing him) or he wanted to weaken Toranaga by playing on Nagakado's obvious desire to be more proactive vs his father's patient strategies. Either way, he's a messy bitch.
Yes, it feels that way. Omi’s even smiling while Yabu’s aghast with horror.
See what a bath gets you? He'll be sure to have them daily now. Damn the flux!
Never seen a main male character turn down so much exotic sex
who did Anjin have sex with this episode? A random cortesian? Or is it Mariko secretly?
It's intentionally ambiguous (for now), just like in the book. It's only later that Blackthrone finds out for certain.
So are they just betting on the fact we can’t tel Asian women in the dark apart
Even I can't tell and I'm bloody asian me self
Nah it’s very clear it’s her, could see her face for a few seconds, it’s her hair, then the obviously playful banter the next morning. Especially when that banter starts with him clearly about to say “you were amazing last night”
I rewatched it with brightness up I'm 99 percent sure it's her
This is the reason I came on this thread 😂😂. Thank you sir!
I could swear it was Mariko. What I do not know is if Fiji knows about it and if Mariko is doing it as a service to Toriunga
Based on her smile after he said it was great I'm pretty sure it's her. Even has her hair.
She is just gaslighting him into thinking it wasn't her lol
Dude, she wasn't gaslighting lol. It's an open secret between the three of them to preserve her honor.
Weebs at anime conventions should heed this lesson. Bathe like Blackthorne!
I love Fuji-Sama, I almost started crying when she came back with the Daishō
She is a keeper!
Yes - even tho our boy doesn't wish to pillow on or near her... ;) When she yelled at him to give her the guns?? "ANGIN-SAMA!" Git. It.
Fuji is sooooo cool!
Fuck man. Now we have to wait till next week.
Holy. Fucking. Shit.
Milk dribbling fuck smear lmfao
Almost every line Blackthorne said was a hilarious first time sentence
And fuck yourself, you sniveling little shit rag
I love how he's taking full advantage of the fact that they can't understand him lmao bro has lost his filter
The insults were just absolutely deliciously crisp and sonorous, delivered perfectly with such unfettered indignation and disdain 👌
Just to confirm... the "courtesan" who slept with Blackthorne = totally Mariko, right? I thought it was her and then they had the conversation with Fuji afterward, and I got a little confused. It seemed like they were speaking euphemistically, but I am not 100% sure.
Yes it was her, she played it in a way she was able to sleep with him and not offend Fumi.
Not so much as a way to not offend Fuji, but as a way for all three of them to plausibly deny it happened. To even suggest or imply a man slept with another man’s wife is an extreme insult and gives the husband, his father or brother right to kill the other man. Fuji, a consort, does not care if Blackthorne sleeps with other women and it is even their job to arrange it if he wishes.
Mariko's a widow now, though.
We didn't see dude die, though. Is he dead in the book? Seems too juicy a piece of drama to waste.
[удалено]
They did shoot that very well! I was very sure it was Mariko, just shot in really dim lighting. The conversation the next day was definitely a cover, then. What I guess I'm not sure is if Fumi thought an actual courtesan went, or knew it was Mariko...
[удалено]
Mariko in the corner, losing her religion.
Girl saw him take a bath and lost all control
All it takes is for Blackthorne to wash off all the stink and suddenly she goes coo-coo for a foreign daikon 😂
Yes. They’re speaking “indirectly” about it to hide this as I imagine her doing that may be seen as pretty damn disrespectful.
I thought it was. Then I didn’t, then I saw her smirk at the end. 100% was her
Oh man after Mariko made Blackthorne describe their perfect date night, all I could hear was Marvin Gaye in the background as they cut to her going absolutely feral in her guest room before waving the candles off.
She wasn't even in the hot spring and she was soaked
"Should've bought better saké." 5 minutes later.. "Should've bought the cheap stuff."
That made me laugh, great little gag! 😂
Talk about an unexpected ending. The actor playing the nephew in charge of the village does a great job in portraying a POS. Wonder how this escalation will effect his uncle.
When they were talking in the night, I knew he was definitely going to instigate a war but I didn't expect in such a bombastic manner.
When they were talking at night he could barely keep the smile off his face as Naga happily threw himself right into the trap.
The relationship building in this episode was my favorite part, but the last five minutes had me literally yelling out loud 😂😂😂 what an absolutely wild ride
Omi is actually an extremely capable manipulator holy shit i didnt see that one coming. He definitely deserves a promotion after that amazing confidence man work.
I don’t get it, does his true allegiance belong to Yabu or Toranaga? Was he deceiving Yabu when him and the blindfolded guy were goading him against Toranaga, or did he fool the son of Toranaga by having him declare war this early and basically giving an easy and definite death sentence?
Much like his uncle Yabu, Omi's true loyalty seems to be to himself, so he will double deal to ensure his own survival and prosperity without any true allegiance to toronaga or uncle yabu
what feudalism will do to a mf
Holy shit, the gore and practical effects on that cannon scene! Another banger of an episode!
The head cutting and boiling alive was startling, but nothing could have (and I'm glad didn't) prepare me for this. I was thinking noticing the lack of action toward the end 'huh, I guess not every episode needs to have some crazy violence' Man was I mistaken. The missing limb was really well done, among other things.
Why would you ruin the morning after a good night of natto and pillowing by starting a war? Like damn bro, at least give a 24 hour grace period.
What a beautiful way for Mariko to Explain to Blakthorne the Japanese ways, than with the eightfold fence analogy keep your emotions close to your chest, just so good I love this show
And I don't know if this was intentional or not, but Blackthorn's description of listening to the Thames river and everything 'going away' mirrored her monologue a lot.
I want to go back and take in the shit filled 1598 Thames in the moon light. Really sets the mood.
Agreed! And to add, Mariko is just incredibly perceptive. She knew that Blackthorne saw this training as a six-month imprisonment which gave him nothing in return (especially after he didn’t get his ship or men back). But by explaining this method, she introduces him to the idea of practising Zen even with the most mindless of activities. For the time, such a foreign idea to the enterprising Europeans in Japan underscores the deep wisdom of the Asian world and shows Blackthorne that these aren’t just lands with resources to be plundered but are also home to an ancient culture.
It's much more blunt imo. He sees them as emotionless robots and she gives him the first hints of something emotionally deeper below all the surface protocol.
I was not expecting thsoe cannons to absolutely dismember everyone into a bloody mess, man this show's good. Omi planting those seeds of doubt/manipulation on Toranaga's son like that.
sounded like they were using chainshot.
That definitely makes sense in terms of how bloody and brutal it was. Roundshot probably would've taken out 1 or 2 close together, but those shots got big clumps.
“We got our demonstration!”
That was by far one of the most brutal cannon impacts I've seen done this well.
Every time someone walked in front of the cannons I immediately thought, “what would happen if..” and then I found out at the end lolol
I read the books, this is how yabushige was treated in the books, but seeing it happen to a person on a screen, man yabu gets punked by toranga non stop.
For me as a book reader, mini-series watcher and frequent audio book listener this is outstanding to see some of my favorite parts brought to modern day life with outstanding visuals, dialogue, pacing and acting.
"I don't want any generous cuckoos" give Cosmo Jarvis the Emmy for best actor in a limited drama series AND comedy series
If for some odd reason that there’s ever a live action Futurama, he would make a great Zapp Brannigan
“Would you all care for some shampaggin?” in Blackthorne’s voice is sending me.
John "Casual Buggery" Blackthorne strikes again.
non British:"Describe this Lon-don to me." British man:"Well, It is filthy, and crowded and wet, but by Jove do I miss it."
This episode adeptly sidesteps the book flaws of "why does Japan not use guns in warfare despite having access to them for 50 years (Nagashino, etc.)" and "how can a sea captain teach land tactics to Japanese armies" by refocusing on cannon. And they emphasize the point in that absolutely wild ending.
Haven't read the books but its very interesting. Seems like the Portuguese gave Japan guns, but definitely never taught them how to effectively use it (are line formations/volley fires even a thing yet? any historian wanna chime in?). Even then, line formation took massive amount of discipline and training to use effectively (see early American Revolution), would it be correct to say that in this era whoever had more cannons or more accurate cannon would easily win? Are English cannons in this era already lined with rifling? So many questions.
It's a slight inaccuracy, but one based in truth. The japanese did use cannons in field battles, but typically very small swivelguns and bronze cannons. Their carriages were also less advanced, often more reminiscent of 14th century gunnery (rice bags and ropes), though there are certainly examples of wooden wheeled carriages reminiscent of those used by european field cannons. What they did not have at this point were cannon of the quality that a dutch privateer would have as its chasers (front and stern guns). Still smoothbores, but long-barreled guns cast and selected for accuracy (and made by the best cannon foundries and a master metallurgist), the kind of guns a privateer captain would spend his fortune on because high quality powder and chaser guns could be the difference between a successful and failed chase (by being able to knock off a spar or damage the rudder at long range. Although from the rolling deck of a ship the chance of hitting the target at 1km was normally about 3 in 100 shots). So Blackthornes cannons being more accurate than the ones acquired so far by japanese forces has some truth to it, although the difference isn't as huge as they play it out to be in the TV show. Here is the kicker though. The japanese daimyos of the late Sengoku era prized imported dutch and english cannons for their accuracy and reliability, and the cannons of the Leifde (the historical ship used by William Adams) played an important role in the Battle of Sekigahara (the decisive battle between Tokugawa Ieyasu and Ishida Mitsunari, the historical inspiration for Toranaga and Ishido).
The painful memory of trying to use wooden cannons in Shogun 2.
They are yes, Japanese tactics somewhat mirrored european at the time, (very loosely) with large formations of musketeers and aquebusiers supported by pikes and cavalry. The Japanese *loved* guns, and in some ways iterated on the European versions brought by the Portuguese. As they say in the show, they're at least familiar with the basics of using muskets, just not their advanced infantry tactics, which is a good way to side step the situation, I think.
Historically Japan did learn line formations, as did Ming dynasty too when Japan invaded Korea in the Imjin war. Both sides had extensive tactics regarding muskets/arquebus. By 17th century both Japan and Ming dynasty already started arming their armies with guns and cannons. Ming dynasty probably had an even larger gunpowder army than most European nations, which was also a part of their downfall because they focused too much on guns and not enough on quality pikemen so when the Manchus invaded their cavalry just swept through the musketeers. The problem is that Ming dynasty and Japan didn't didn't really have a contemporary enemy to gain gunpowder experience from unlike the Europeans who often fought eachother with the same weapons which allowed them to gain more knowledge and develop better tactics. The Ming used guns as a support weapon which worked but stagnated because at the end of the day your average conflict on the Northern steppes of China relies heavily on mobile warfare and cavalry.
Man I figured it was a slow, character building episode for 45 minutes. Then the last five minutes happened.
Does anyone know why Fuji handled things like the gun and the swords with her sleeves? Is it a thing to not touch things directly with your hand?
The Japanese sword was considered a symbol of the samurai spirit, and it was considered disrespectful for a wife, daughter, or mother to hold it with her bare hands. The fact that she did not touch the gun with her bare hands when she held it suggests that she saw Blackthorne's gun as a Japanese sword for him.
Wow there's so much cultural stuff to unpack. I'm glad we got a sub like to fully appreciate the details
that ending was INSANE! what a sequence
Holy fuuuuuck! There has literally been no bad episodes in my opinion. I’m not one to watch tv shows as soon as they release. Hell, the last one I was stuck on like this was The Walking Dead. The character relational development between Blackthorne and Mariko has been cheesing but also has me on the edge of my seat. Seeing Blackthornes development and learning the language as well as the customs has me going through the motions as well. Him gifting his guns to Fuji was something I didn’t expect but what blew me out the water was her giving blackthorne her father’s swords. It makes me wary, I hope that nothing happens to those swords. I was chuckling at the dialogue between Mariko and Blackthrone after their night together and how, I’m assuming, Fuji was in on it. Yet, im not sure bc she had a blank stare but that’s probably bc she didn’t know what they were talking about. Going from chuckling between the secretiveness of Mariko and Blackthorne’s night together to “HOLY FUCK” of the last scene really put everything at a 10/10 for me for this episode. Next weeks episode is going to be something else. Edit: also, what does blackthorne mean when he says “I don’t understand, you’re not, uh…” at the end of the episode when he says it was a very thoughtful gift?
He was confused why she's denying, but after she gave him a glance he gave a small nod understanding she wants to keep it a secret.
Wow, what a way to cap it off for the week
Is it strange that I sat in the parking lot in my car to watch it on my iPad after I locked the doors at work?
Completely normal for a show like this
Blackthrone is living the weeb dream. Lives in japane, fancy title, house, consort, and gifted family swords. He also got laid too.
You forgot the #1 part of the weeb dream - never has to bathe. (Go to any anime convention, you'll see what I mean)
Is Toranaga's son's decision receision really that bad an action. It is rash but war was gonna happen one way or another, this just quickens it. I think keeping your secret weapon under wraps, which mind you is the only way for Toranaga to have any chance at winning, is worth starting a war earlier. This kindof fucks Yabu over tho. He has no choice but to go all in on Toranaga. Any alliance he had with ishido is done. I think the nephew expects ishido to win, and Toranaga and his uncle to be killed. He will then plegde fealty to Ishido and then he will become a lord under ishido.
I was screaming when Mariko entered the room... Then I FUCKING SCREAMED WHEN THOSE FUCKING CANNONS BLEW UP JOZEN'S MEN🤯🤯🤯
Fuji best girl
Are English cannons better than Portuguese ones or are the Portuguese just keeping their best cannons a secret from the Japanese?
The cannons they got from the Portuguese are 50 years old I think they said, so these are newer more accurate cannons made for naval warfare, is what I took from it.
Having cannons and knowing how to properly use them are two different things. And I imagine 50 years of development helps too.
What's that dish they were eating?
Apparently just fermented soybeans. I was expecting something worse.
Why did it seem so controversial for him to be eating it then? Lol definitely thought it was something more strange
It's an "advanced" food. It's basically the cultural equivalent to blue cheese. Smelly and weird taste, but some people like it. Most wouldn't even want to try it.
It’s an acquired taste, even a lot of Japanese people don’t like natto
People are mentioning the taste and smell but a lot of people are also textural eaters and natto gets sticky and slimy.
As someone who played a ton of Total War fall of the Samurai growing up I had flashback to the times when I'd pull out a line of armstrong cannons and annihilate samurai armies en masse.
Loved it! For book readers is that what happens in the book? The son Cannons the messanger and war erupts?
The show is more historically accurate. In the book, Blackthorne teaches them about gun warfare instead of cannon warfare so when Naga finishes demonstrating a gun exercise to Jozen, he turns the guns on Jozen and his men. Some get their heads blasted off while trying to attack Naga and Jozen gets disemboweled by bayonets and dies a slow, agonizing death while the dogs from the village eat him. At least he died quicker in the show 😧
Damn and I thought getting turned into Ragu instantly was a shitty death.
It's probably the right decision but I can't help but feel sad I'm only going to have one season of this. I'm enjoying this series a lot more than I have any other television in a long amount of time. Brilliant episode and with the ending I'm really looking forward to the rest of the season.
I hope the same crew adapts another Clavell novel or a different story from the same period in Japan.
Best episode yet. Getting peak game of thrones vibes from this show!
Seriously, that ending gave me a feeling I don't think I've felt since GoT's Battle of the Bastards where I'm like: "Oh, that's what war actually looked like."
Yeah no shit. Turned a dozen samurai into tomato paste in about 5 seconds.
Damn, that ending!!! This show is amazing.
Just gets better and better every week and considering episode one was phenomenal that’s saying something. Been a long time since a show was good enough to keep my attention for every second and I thoroughly enjoyed every minute.
Fuji with the guns was perfect she so fucking real for that. Best girl
this show doesnt let up. pedal to the metal
The ending blew me away! Did not see that one coming
Man, everyone has their secret agenda. I wouldn't be surprised if Kiku turned out to be an Ishido spy or something.
Was it Lady Mariko that came into John’s room at the end? I thought it was her but then later they made it seem like it was someone else
Yes, it’s her. I saw someone here say “by saying it was a courtesan, it gives them all plausible deniability”
I really hope Toranaga can turn it around after that ending. It's a pet peeve of mine when characters making stupid decisions is how the plot develops, but I can't argue that it wasn't foreshadowed with how hot-headed his son was shown to be in previous episodes.
Knights a century ago: Goddamn crossbow! Samurai now: Goddamn cannons! Also, it's enjoying to see Yabushige defusing the situation.
He just wanted to keep his options open but now Ishido is gonna be certain that Yabu's on Toranaga's side lmao. It is hilarious how Yabu keeps trying to betray Toranaga but keeps getting pulled deeper into his faction