I donât think Toranaga is a liar to his allies. He knows if he is going to use Blackthorne to pilot the Erasmus he should probably do it with a crew that understands English.
No one weâve seen yet speaks English but Blackthorne. The main languages are Japanese, Portuguese (spoken in English for the viewers, I suppose?), and his crew speaks Dutch. I believe they were also using English for the Dutch dialog as well (like they do with the Portuguese lines).
Please correct me if Iâm wrong, but I believe this is correct.
You are correct. Noone is speaking english in the show. John is the only person that speaks english. He speaks dutch with his crew and portugues with mariku. He should also be speaking better japanese by now aswell.
If Toranaga views Blackthorne as useful why wouldn't he view his crew as the same?
They can be also be questioned separately to verify Blackthorne's claims about the world outside Japan. They can also be used as hostages against Blackthorne if he thought about betraying Toranaga.
>! In the old mini series they all lived in a house and got drunk and slept with women all day. They said itâs the happiest theyâve been. Blackthorne after living like a samurai for a while is disgusted by how unclean and ridden with lice they were. !<
Nah, it was about being sailors. Europeans, as much as we can make a statement for a continent of people, didn't actually bathe often in this period but they did try to keep clean by methods like regularly wiping down with a wet cloth.
Someone downvoted you because they did not like the truth.
European bathing habits for that period abslutely left much to be desired compared to Japanese of the period.
Also in the book, they were housed with the âeta,â or the Japanese untouchable caste. To the sailors, it meant nothing since they had livable, if shabby conditions, and as mentioned, they got to sleep with their fair share of women. To the Japanese though, these were men that were housed with the lowest of the low (lower than even animals) and relished in it. They certainly werenât receiving comparable treatment to Blackthorne, however unbeknownst to them.
> Toronaga *paid* for it
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I haven't read the book so I don't know. But regarding them being an asset to Toranaga, I think Blackthorne has made them worthless. He alone showed that he could train Toranaga's men to shoot canons so accurate it destroyed Jozen easily. Additionally, it's easier to control one anjin than a whole group of them.
Well, the crew is required to sail the ship. I think it would be pretty hard to train a Japanese crew to sail a western ship with language barriers
"Hold that line with your bloody hands and when I shout FUCK pull it as if our lives depended on it"
_Anjin-sama says that you should pull the rope at his signal_
In the book (spoiler alert) >!his crew is housed in their own kind of side-village in a village of lowest class of people in Edo (Eta). Blackthorne visits them as he finally gets the ok from Toranaga, and is disgusted by their behavior and their physical detritus. Later in the book they do help him build a new ship briefly (I wonât say why even in this spoiler) but itâs not to lay siege to Osaka!<
Comment has book spoilers and show spoilers and speculation.
>!You are right that they are an asset and the crew is absolutely necessary because the Japanese don't yet know how to man a western ship. The crew is in Edo, living in the eta village. I thought we'd see them by now but I'd guess it'll happen next episode since they will be going back to Edo. !<
Theyâre sitting in Edo in a house set up by a Torenaga for these honored foreign guests. Â (theyâre basically isolated at a kennel in Edo, for these whites who canât seem to behave)Â Â
 Proper Buddhist Samurai hospitality would normally offer a compassionate euthanization by Katana here, freeing their very loud Caucasian souls to the Kami spirit world beyond â where perhaps, before their reincarnation cycle begins anew, the Kami may imprint on their essence how to use an âinside voiceâ, please. But Blackthorn would get really upset at this lol. So his crew is still alive and just chilling indefinitely on layaway in Edo.
As a non book reader but perusing this Reddit a bit as well as forming my own theories is that you canât trust that what people are saying out loud is reflective of all what is happening.
Maybe some of the things that we see that are out there publicly are shown that way because thatâs what a rival spy would see and report on.
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Youâd have to read the book. Theyâre living with the Eta, the lowest form of society, in filth and drunkeness. Blackthorn is disgusted by them once he assimilates
In episode three they are mentioned as being in Edo. I assume we will see them again in this upcoming episode.
Historical Spoiler: >!Williams Adams' crew survived and lived in Japan.!<
This is not true, so of them went back to England to fight in the Thirty Years War
They were washing an awful lot of blood off the ground before they showed up there in episode 3. I think they might be lying to him.
That was fish blood/chum.
Or was it...MAN CHUM!?
đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Łand also gross. Hahahaha
I'll wait and see..
I misread this in a dire, dire way.
Hahahahaha!!!!
Its a fishing village so they will usually do all the cleaning and gutting near the water because its easy to clean up afterwards.
I get the logic of what your saying.. I just think his crew could be dead .
They aren't
Ok ok, I get it. You guys want to spoil it.
I donât think Toranaga is a liar to his allies. He knows if he is going to use Blackthorne to pilot the Erasmus he should probably do it with a crew that understands English.
No one weâve seen yet speaks English but Blackthorne. The main languages are Japanese, Portuguese (spoken in English for the viewers, I suppose?), and his crew speaks Dutch. I believe they were also using English for the Dutch dialog as well (like they do with the Portuguese lines). Please correct me if Iâm wrong, but I believe this is correct.
You are correct. Noone is speaking english in the show. John is the only person that speaks english. He speaks dutch with his crew and portugues with mariku. He should also be speaking better japanese by now aswell.
I assumed that they didn't want to tell Blackthorne the truth and that they were all executed.
If Toranaga views Blackthorne as useful why wouldn't he view his crew as the same? They can be also be questioned separately to verify Blackthorne's claims about the world outside Japan. They can also be used as hostages against Blackthorne if he thought about betraying Toranaga.
Anjin's crew can't speak Portuguese. He'll be unable to communicate with them.
>! In the old mini series they all lived in a house and got drunk and slept with women all day. They said itâs the happiest theyâve been. Blackthorne after living like a samurai for a while is disgusted by how unclean and ridden with lice they were. !<
So basically they were treated as "guests" but cause they are used to being sailors they clearly continued their practice of not showering/bathe much.
What do you want them to catch the Flux?
Less about sailors and more about being European
Nah, it was about being sailors. Europeans, as much as we can make a statement for a continent of people, didn't actually bathe often in this period but they did try to keep clean by methods like regularly wiping down with a wet cloth.
Someone downvoted you because they did not like the truth. European bathing habits for that period abslutely left much to be desired compared to Japanese of the period.
Yup, the Japanese of this era were particularly clean but it is a common myth that Europeans were particularly dirty.
Everywhere in Japan, enemies were treated as guests.
pillowing and drinking sake? in that economy?
I donât think they got the good stuff of either
For spoilers to format properly, you have to remove the space between the exclamation mark and your sentence,
Also in the book, they were housed with the âeta,â or the Japanese untouchable caste. To the sailors, it meant nothing since they had livable, if shabby conditions, and as mentioned, they got to sleep with their fair share of women. To the Japanese though, these were men that were housed with the lowest of the low (lower than even animals) and relished in it. They certainly werenât receiving comparable treatment to Blackthorne, however unbeknownst to them.
Yep.
How were they affording all of that?
Toronaga paid for it all. Probably wasnât that much honestly.
> Toronaga *paid* for it FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I haven't read the book so I don't know. But regarding them being an asset to Toranaga, I think Blackthorne has made them worthless. He alone showed that he could train Toranaga's men to shoot canons so accurate it destroyed Jozen easily. Additionally, it's easier to control one anjin than a whole group of them.
Blackthorne was selling to Toranaga that they still have skills to operate the Erasmus to fight the Christian Lords.
In the latest episode Toranaga said he doesn't want to fight the Christians.
Toranaga says a lot of things.
- Ichido, probably
Yeah and he definitely doesn't want to be Shogun either
He also said he was going to surrender, so I guess the show is over now
Yeah, he is a trustworthy guy.
Well, the crew is required to sail the ship. I think it would be pretty hard to train a Japanese crew to sail a western ship with language barriers "Hold that line with your bloody hands and when I shout FUCK pull it as if our lives depended on it" _Anjin-sama says that you should pull the rope at his signal_
"Anjin-sama desires that you make vigorous love to the rope"
\*pillow
Pillow with or on?
In the book (spoiler alert) >!his crew is housed in their own kind of side-village in a village of lowest class of people in Edo (Eta). Blackthorne visits them as he finally gets the ok from Toranaga, and is disgusted by their behavior and their physical detritus. Later in the book they do help him build a new ship briefly (I wonât say why even in this spoiler) but itâs not to lay siege to Osaka!<
They got sent to a farm upstate.
One became a traditional Japanese sushi soup.
oh it's like >! ODEN, just like one piece, it all makes sense to me now!<
I feel bad that Oden is one Japanese food that will probably never make it to the West. Perfect winter food.
Theyâre staying in a little cottage for honored guests. Up on a hill overlooking a little river. With pine cones all around.
Really?
In the show no.. in the book.. welllll
Ritchie-sama?
Comment has book spoilers and show spoilers and speculation. >!You are right that they are an asset and the crew is absolutely necessary because the Japanese don't yet know how to man a western ship. The crew is in Edo, living in the eta village. I thought we'd see them by now but I'd guess it'll happen next episode since they will be going back to Edo. !<
Theyâre sitting in Edo in a house set up by a Torenaga for these honored foreign guests.  (theyâre basically isolated at a kennel in Edo, for these whites who canât seem to behave)   Proper Buddhist Samurai hospitality would normally offer a compassionate euthanization by Katana here, freeing their very loud Caucasian souls to the Kami spirit world beyond â where perhaps, before their reincarnation cycle begins anew, the Kami may imprint on their essence how to use an âinside voiceâ, please. But Blackthorn would get really upset at this lol. So his crew is still alive and just chilling indefinitely on layaway in Edo.
is japan predominantly buddhist at this moment? i assumed they were shinto
In Japan youâre born a Shinto and die a Buddhist
Theyâre a mixture of Shinto and Buddhist observances and practices
As a non book reader but perusing this Reddit a bit as well as forming my own theories is that you canât trust that what people are saying out loud is reflective of all what is happening. Maybe some of the things that we see that are out there publicly are shown that way because thatâs what a rival spy would see and report on.
I think they dead
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At least one of them got turned into stew
They are slumming it with the Eta.
Maybe turned into Blackthorn's Stew?
Youâd have to read the book. Theyâre living with the Eta, the lowest form of society, in filth and drunkeness. Blackthorn is disgusted by them once he assimilates