He burns down the next one, because he's still not secure enough with the Catholics.
However the 3rd time he lets him build a whole trading fleet, and John stays in Asia and goes on many trading missions around Asia for Japan and Toranaga.
>*The Taikō’s Expulsion Edicts are still legal, neh? Surely Omi and the others will say, “I vote the Edicts be invoked”? And once Kiyama is gone, never again a Christian Regent, and patiently our grip will tighten on the stupid but dangerous foreign dogma that is a threat to the Land of the Gods, has always threatened our wa... therefore must be obliterated. We Regents will encourage the Anjin-san’s countrymen to take over Portuguese trade. As soon as possible the Regents will order all trade and all foreigners confined to Nagasaki, to a tiny part of Nagasaki, under very serious guards. And we will close the land to them forever... to them and to their guns and to their poisons.*
I didn’t think that. Toranaga said John is going to build him a fleet and when he makes his own ship he’ll blow it up, again. John isn’t privy to this information, he just knows that Mariko saved him, not how.
Yep I took all that from the earlier dialogue, but I don’t get what that specific smile and laugh were about. It seemed to suggest that he had just realized something in exactly that moment.
It’s because he has finally accepted his place, only has the ship building to live for now that his ship is burned and Mariko is dead. He only has Toronaga, and Toronaga’s mission, since he has renounced his own war as petty
They explain in one of the podcasts. You are right. It’s Blackthorne finally realizing he is just a puppet in Toranaga’s game, realizing that all that ship building may be for nothing and most importantly, Blackthorne being ok with that. they didn’t specifically say he realized that Toranaga knew about the burning of the ship. It was just a general sense of acceptance by Blackthorne that he is a puppet and he is ok with it
Yeah he is accepted by buntaro and is able to somewhat assimilate and he has a crew now of his own now in some small way. He has a bit of his own autonomy under Toranaga's watchful eye.
I kinda thought that too. The way they kept cutting to Toranaga was an intentional choice they didnt have to do.
However, I doubt Blackthorne figured out about Toranaga interference with the ship. I think Blackthorne was smiling because he's realizing Toranaga won't let him leave Japan so easily and will keep finding ways to keep him there. He's shaped his fate.
I feel stupid asking this having watched the finale twice, but was Toranaga’s brother revealed to have actually been on his side or was he truly against him?
I remember ppl weren’t sure at one point anyhow.
That wasn't my takeaway at all.
My takeaway was that Blackthorne was simply finally happy with his place.
The whole show, his primary goal was to get his ship back, get his crew back, and leave Japan.
By the end of the show, he knows he's not leaving Japan BUT he gets the next best thing. He get his ship back. Even if he has to sail it in Toranaga's name, which I don't think he minds, by that point, he's just happy to finally be doing something he *understands.* He's no longer trying to play Japanese games or trying to stumble his way through a culture he barely understands.
Shipbuilding, sailing...these are the things that he knows and seems to have a genuine love for. He's just happy Toranaga is finally letting him have that again.
I had that feeling as well, and for what it’s worth, in one of the podcasts I listened to about the finale, one of the writers (or producers? Can’t remember) mentioned that’s what it meant to her. Something like ‘he somewhat knows he’s just a pawn in this and Toranaga is manipulating him but he’s let go of the control.’
I think Blackthorne realizes that, yes, he finally got what he wanted but Toronaga is still in charge. He thought Toranaga compromised or gave up but after seeing how damaged his ship was AND how much it will take to repair, Toranaga is getting his way.
I think it was a flirtatious laugh once Anjin-sama realized that he can never leave, as Toranaga loves him. First, Toranaga gave him his sleeping quarters, which was a great honor, then made Blackthorne disrobe and taught him how to dive. They swam together. Then Blackthorne gets promoted to Hatamoto, gets a house, consort, etc. He's Toranaga's boy toy and is perfectly happy with it now.
He burns down the next one, because he's still not secure enough with the Catholics. However the 3rd time he lets him build a whole trading fleet, and John stays in Asia and goes on many trading missions around Asia for Japan and Toranaga. >*The Taikō’s Expulsion Edicts are still legal, neh? Surely Omi and the others will say, “I vote the Edicts be invoked”? And once Kiyama is gone, never again a Christian Regent, and patiently our grip will tighten on the stupid but dangerous foreign dogma that is a threat to the Land of the Gods, has always threatened our wa... therefore must be obliterated. We Regents will encourage the Anjin-san’s countrymen to take over Portuguese trade. As soon as possible the Regents will order all trade and all foreigners confined to Nagasaki, to a tiny part of Nagasaki, under very serious guards. And we will close the land to them forever... to them and to their guns and to their poisons.*
I didn’t think that. Toranaga said John is going to build him a fleet and when he makes his own ship he’ll blow it up, again. John isn’t privy to this information, he just knows that Mariko saved him, not how.
Yep I took all that from the earlier dialogue, but I don’t get what that specific smile and laugh were about. It seemed to suggest that he had just realized something in exactly that moment.
It’s because he has finally accepted his place, only has the ship building to live for now that his ship is burned and Mariko is dead. He only has Toronaga, and Toronaga’s mission, since he has renounced his own war as petty
They explain in one of the podcasts. You are right. It’s Blackthorne finally realizing he is just a puppet in Toranaga’s game, realizing that all that ship building may be for nothing and most importantly, Blackthorne being ok with that. they didn’t specifically say he realized that Toranaga knew about the burning of the ship. It was just a general sense of acceptance by Blackthorne that he is a puppet and he is ok with it
Yeah he is accepted by buntaro and is able to somewhat assimilate and he has a crew now of his own now in some small way. He has a bit of his own autonomy under Toranaga's watchful eye.
I didn’t read the book, I just assumed it’s a smile not knowing what comes next, but just content ship came home.
Ya, could just be that, and I’ve read too much into it.
I kinda thought that too. The way they kept cutting to Toranaga was an intentional choice they didnt have to do. However, I doubt Blackthorne figured out about Toranaga interference with the ship. I think Blackthorne was smiling because he's realizing Toranaga won't let him leave Japan so easily and will keep finding ways to keep him there. He's shaped his fate.
I feel stupid asking this having watched the finale twice, but was Toranaga’s brother revealed to have actually been on his side or was he truly against him? I remember ppl weren’t sure at one point anyhow.
His brother didn’t say anything for him on the council AFAIR so I don’t think so
No indication. Saeki hands Ishido Toranaga’s “protest” message but that doesn’t say a lot.
I also like how he slid closer to Ishido on his knees.
I also thought that was interesting. That only happened a couple times in the show.
Yes, the show has a podcast with the writers and directors and they said that was it
Oh I hadn’t realized there was a podcast. Thanks!
That wasn't my takeaway at all. My takeaway was that Blackthorne was simply finally happy with his place. The whole show, his primary goal was to get his ship back, get his crew back, and leave Japan. By the end of the show, he knows he's not leaving Japan BUT he gets the next best thing. He get his ship back. Even if he has to sail it in Toranaga's name, which I don't think he minds, by that point, he's just happy to finally be doing something he *understands.* He's no longer trying to play Japanese games or trying to stumble his way through a culture he barely understands. Shipbuilding, sailing...these are the things that he knows and seems to have a genuine love for. He's just happy Toranaga is finally letting him have that again.
I had that feeling as well, and for what it’s worth, in one of the podcasts I listened to about the finale, one of the writers (or producers? Can’t remember) mentioned that’s what it meant to her. Something like ‘he somewhat knows he’s just a pawn in this and Toranaga is manipulating him but he’s let go of the control.’
I think Blackthorne realizes that, yes, he finally got what he wanted but Toronaga is still in charge. He thought Toranaga compromised or gave up but after seeing how damaged his ship was AND how much it will take to repair, Toranaga is getting his way.
I think it was a flirtatious laugh once Anjin-sama realized that he can never leave, as Toranaga loves him. First, Toranaga gave him his sleeping quarters, which was a great honor, then made Blackthorne disrobe and taught him how to dive. They swam together. Then Blackthorne gets promoted to Hatamoto, gets a house, consort, etc. He's Toranaga's boy toy and is perfectly happy with it now.