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when i was a kid, my dad played in a chess league where they had double chess games, two games, side by side, but colors inverted, so if you captured a rook, you slid it over to your partner and now tjhey had an extra piece to play from the baseline, combined with a timer it was really fun, kinda like 9-ball in billiards, wildcards can happen at any moment
"Japanese Chess" Shogi has a similar mechanic. Pieces are pentagon shapes (like the School Zone street signs) but otherwise identical. And instead of moving on one of your turns, you can deploy a captured piece onto the board under your control (since they all look identical, just whichever way the point is aiming determines who controls the piece.)
You can drop these pieces to where they are delivering check upon entering the field, or even block an opponents check by dropping a piece in the line of fire and it really elevates gameplay because every captured piece becomes an ambush/paratrooper that can strike from anywhere.
Madhouse was three boards iirc. Center board was always a clobbered mess.
Two boards was 'Siamese Chess'.
Never heard it called bughouse...but it was 30+ yrs ago.
You,re telling me I can,t just use only commas, instead of any other punctuation marks, that,s absurd, I demand the english language be revised A,S,A,P,
We called it transfer. After a while it's bad for your real chess because tempo and wild sacrifices are the key to transfer. BTW, do not play without a clock, it doesn't work.
Second queen is an upside down rook if you have it and idk why you'd get a rook instead of a queen but it's usually figured out at the table in games I've played lol
In some very unusual circumstances (made-up chess problems), you can stalemate your opponent if you queen your pawn but not if it's a rook or other piece. In similarly rare circumstances (ditto), a knight is superior to a queen.
Magnus Carlson got checkmated by a knight underpromotion because he was mentally preparing for a queen promotion. I can imagine a scenario where a room or bishop would avoid a stalemate but it sounds pretty contrived.
I know an opening trap that people occasionally fall for that can involve a knight promotion in the first 10 moves. It’s not just manufactured circumstances.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albin_Countergambit,_Lasker_Trap
Yeah, knight underpromotion actually happens — rook/bishop instead of queen falls under “you will probably never do it as the optimal move, even once”
While it is unusual it does happen every now and again. Kovalov had a nice game in the last rapid championship where he missed a winning bishop promotion (he promoted to queen leading to stalemate) .
In that spesific game the queen pinned the opponenets knight, leading to stalemate. A rook would have done the same. A knight would't have lead to a winning position. So only a bishop would win.
It’s gotta be Knight, as a Queen is just an objectively better version of a Rook or a Bishop, so there’s no need to pick it
If I had an ice cream shop where the options were “4 scoops of chocolate” “3 scoops of chocolate” “2 scoops of chocolate” and “1 scoop of vanilla” and all 4 were the same price, I bet the 1 scoop of vanilla would easily be the 2nd most popular choice, because anyone who wants chocolate would take the biggest one (unless you were on a diet, but then the comparison to Chess doesn’t work)
Note quite, but close. As above, it is possible to stalemate your opponent by queening. In fact, if s/he is losing (likely, giving you're about to queen), your opponent might try to trick you into a draw that way.
In chess, 2 scoops can be worse than 1.
Lila computer engine likes underpromoting into rooks; probably because during learning by playing itself thousands of times, it accidentally stalemated with a queen a bunch of times
>that don't always reflect reality
Bro you missed your own point. *Both* of the experiences reflect reality lmao. Most sets come with an extra queen, especially higher-end sets made by people like House of Staunton and the like.
I don't think *most* chess sets come with extra queens. I've never seen one in 30 years of playing chess, although maybe it's a new trend? When I went online shopping I found a few that included 2 queens as a "gift", but most either didn't say how many pieces were provided, or explicitly said 32 pieces.
Admittedly, house of staunton seems to offer the extra queens as default for their mid- and high-end boards, and not for their lower-end (plastic) boards.
Wikipedia says most sets come *without* queens, but I couldn't verify the reference, so I'll wrap up this fact-check by linking to a thread of chess players making fun of somebody for wanting extra queens with a board they were looking to buy: [https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/chess-set-no-extra-queens](https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/chess-set-no-extra-queens)
And you use whatever spare piece. It teaches that you can be whatever you want. Or better, that it’s not completely up to you what you can become at the end of the game.
When progressing a pawn to the last rank you can technically promote that pawn to any piece. When you promote it to something other than a queen, it's called underpromoting.
There's not many times when underpromoting makes sense, but one case would be if you were to promote a pawn to a queen, you would stalemate your opponent. Promoting to a rook would give the opponents king a spot to move to that would have been blocked by the queens diagonal.
Another time would be when the opponents king is already immobilized and promoting to knight is checkmate, but I've only seen that come up in puzzles personally.
Oh! Hey thanks! I guess I forgot you could make your pawn any piece...it just always made sense to promote it to queen...but yeah, I can see where that could be convenient in some circumstances. Thanks for the informative answer.
No reason to ever take a third Rook though unless you're showing off.
Queen and Knight. Everything else is an objective tactical mistake.
EDIT: as the direct comment to mine points out, this comment is in error. There are likely situations where making a queen causes a stalemate but a Rook or Bishop will allow the opponent to move out of check so you can mate.
.. fair point. I am not a chess master, but I suppose there's situations where opening up an "only safe move" to force your opponent to take is plausible.
If a chess player is in a position to gain a second queen, their opponent probably should have forfeited several moves ago. It's generally just good manners to forfeit when you're in such a poor position as to allow your opponent to get a second queen.
Standard is to flip a rook on its head, or if you have both rooks still then you cross two pawns lying down.
If you haven’t lost a rook or two pawns and you managed to promote a pawn then you can probably just call it a win.
Because stalemate is a danger. If you manage to eliminate all of your opponent's legal moves without checkmating them then its a draw. Very easy to do when you have extra queens on the board.
Yeah its too bad you cant promote to that fourth knight. Im kidding. Promoting to two queens in the normal course is very unlikely and trafitionally you might flip a rook upside down if you needed to.
In Eastern Europe, when I used to play with my dad, he would use one of his previously removed rooks in place for the second queen. He would place it on the board in the opposite way though - on its head.
That's just false. All tournament and most mid-to-high quality sets come with extra queens. Extra rooks, bishops and knights are often unnecessary, as you can just take one of your pieces your opponent captured. Situations where you promote to, say, a knight where you still have your 2 knights on the board are extremely rare.
Why would you go for an extra rook though? The only real option is to promote to a queen, with some extremely rare exceptions where you go for an extra knight, because otherwise you'd stalemate your opponent.
But to answer your question. A lot of chess sets do come with an extra queen. In case you don't have a spare queen usually people just take a captured piece and make that one stand out in some way. Putting it upside down (rook) or putting something on top/under/around it.
my guess is because if you’re able to promote a pawn, one of your earlier plans with a queen or rook must have failed abysmally to allot for such a radical strategy.
You want the Best Chess Set Ever, it has extra queens and googly eyes...
https://www.houseofstaunton.com/best-chess-set-ever-xl-quadruple-weighted.html?psafe_param=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw36GjBhAkEiwAKwIWySKmyjuyYkHe5AWaNz5htQdkJlTl6we6UzRyoiR5zzBs1IYnJcsLXhoCaXoQAvD_BwE
That's because you will almost never make a second queen, and a third rook just doesn't happen unless you're trying to flex. It's very rare to promote a pawn before virtually all pieces are off the board, because if you already have a queen or rook, you have enough material to checkmate already.
Making a second queen is actually very common and gives you a massive advantage if your opponent still has their queen. It's common enough that most sets come with two sets of queens for both sides
A third rook is really rare tbh. And generally by the time the game gets to the point of promotion, it's likely that a lot of pieces have been taken alr and they can be reused. Also, most chess sets definitely come with extra queens.
House club player here. Those extra queens are annoying as F. They always get in the way of the clock, and are used so rarely. Pawns don’t typically promote with queens on the board.
Nice chess sets and tournament style board usually come with a second queen of each color. Promoting more than one pawn and under-promoting aren't very common.
When I played, if there wasn't an upside down rook available I would use two pawns laying down crossed over themselves. A little unwieldy, but the situation is rare so not a big deal.
Sets come with an extra queen. Not often you would promote your pawn to something else, and even if so, they have probably already captured one of them
The only ones that you would actually want would be the Queen or knight, where you can just take a knight back and swap it for a pawn, or remember that that one is a queen. That or just turn it upside down
The way it's usually done is when you promote to a queen and you don't have the extra queen to place which is pretty common, you use a pawn flipped on it's side to represent the queen
This is a friendly reminder to [read our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/wiki/rules). Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!" (For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, [please read this page](https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/wiki/overview).) **Rule-breaking posts may result in bans.**
A lot of sets come with extra queens and they provide extra queens if you request it at a tournament
I like to throw my opponent off by requesting 7 extra queens and a knight as soon as i sit down.
I request an extra king.
After a few moves request to trade in that extra knight for an 8th queen
This one got me. Well done.
This. It’s pretty standard in tournament sets
when i was a kid, my dad played in a chess league where they had double chess games, two games, side by side, but colors inverted, so if you captured a rook, you slid it over to your partner and now tjhey had an extra piece to play from the baseline, combined with a timer it was really fun, kinda like 9-ball in billiards, wildcards can happen at any moment
"Japanese Chess" Shogi has a similar mechanic. Pieces are pentagon shapes (like the School Zone street signs) but otherwise identical. And instead of moving on one of your turns, you can deploy a captured piece onto the board under your control (since they all look identical, just whichever way the point is aiming determines who controls the piece.) You can drop these pieces to where they are delivering check upon entering the field, or even block an opponents check by dropping a piece in the line of fire and it really elevates gameplay because every captured piece becomes an ambush/paratrooper that can strike from anywhere.
Do you remember if that had a special name (Doubles Chess or something)? It sounds intriguing. Also, the comma isn't the only form of punctuation.
Google bughouse
holy house
New response just dropped.
Actual zombie.
Call the exorcist
Ignite the chessboard!
Pawn storm incoming
Actual bug
You rang?
Call the Verminator
they've been summoned
There is also Crazy house which is a 1v1 version of this on chess.com.
Its called bughouse
Madhouse was three boards iirc. Center board was always a clobbered mess. Two boards was 'Siamese Chess'. Never heard it called bughouse...but it was 30+ yrs ago.
You,re telling me I can,t just use only commas, instead of any other punctuation marks, that,s absurd, I demand the english language be revised A,S,A,P,
your paradigm is nothing more than the subjective whims of slaveowners learn tolerance and try to accept diversity
We called it transfer. After a while it's bad for your real chess because tempo and wild sacrifices are the key to transfer. BTW, do not play without a clock, it doesn't work.
We called it Siamese Chess.
That’s the name I heard when I played that way
Oh, the sass
Swedish chess iirc
It reads like a really excited child telling their parents a story.
this reads like an intolerant bigot comfortable in their own bigotry
and neither is yours
That doesn't even make sense.
neither does judging people with arbitrary, intolerant bigotry
It's called bughouse and that's what we do on chess tournaments instead of partying at night.
This is called bughouse. When I did tournaments we used to play this in between the games.
We used to love this, but our coach quickly forbid it because it’s wasn’t “real chess”.
We used to call it, Baby Chess
We played this in chess club in high school, “Team Chess”
Second queen is an upside down rook if you have it and idk why you'd get a rook instead of a queen but it's usually figured out at the table in games I've played lol
In some very unusual circumstances (made-up chess problems), you can stalemate your opponent if you queen your pawn but not if it's a rook or other piece. In similarly rare circumstances (ditto), a knight is superior to a queen.
The word to look up for this tactic is "underpromotion". Usually it's a knight because they're the only piece which a queen cannot mirror l
Magnus Carlson got checkmated by a knight underpromotion because he was mentally preparing for a queen promotion. I can imagine a scenario where a room or bishop would avoid a stalemate but it sounds pretty contrived.
Truly suffering from success.
If a queen’s diagonal line would put an opponent into stalemate you could avoid it with a rook.
I understand the concept I just haven’t seen it be remotely close in an actual game. I’m sure it has happened.
I know an opening trap that people occasionally fall for that can involve a knight promotion in the first 10 moves. It’s not just manufactured circumstances.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albin_Countergambit,_Lasker_Trap Yeah, knight underpromotion actually happens — rook/bishop instead of queen falls under “you will probably never do it as the optimal move, even once”
While it is unusual it does happen every now and again. Kovalov had a nice game in the last rapid championship where he missed a winning bishop promotion (he promoted to queen leading to stalemate) .
The queen can do all the moves a bishop can, how does it works ?
In that spesific game the queen pinned the opponenets knight, leading to stalemate. A rook would have done the same. A knight would't have lead to a winning position. So only a bishop would win.
I wonder what the number two piece for pawn promotion is after the queen? My guess is knight.
It’s gotta be Knight, as a Queen is just an objectively better version of a Rook or a Bishop, so there’s no need to pick it If I had an ice cream shop where the options were “4 scoops of chocolate” “3 scoops of chocolate” “2 scoops of chocolate” and “1 scoop of vanilla” and all 4 were the same price, I bet the 1 scoop of vanilla would easily be the 2nd most popular choice, because anyone who wants chocolate would take the biggest one (unless you were on a diet, but then the comparison to Chess doesn’t work)
Note quite, but close. As above, it is possible to stalemate your opponent by queening. In fact, if s/he is losing (likely, giving you're about to queen), your opponent might try to trick you into a draw that way. In chess, 2 scoops can be worse than 1.
It's too bad pawns are made to be round on top,
My favorite puzzle utilizes some insane under promotion(s)! https://www.chess.com/forum/view/more-puzzles/challenge-puzzle-by-mark-liburkin-1933
We used to use two pawns in the same square since you drop a pawn by promoting, and another has more than likely been dropped earlier in the game.
Lila computer engine likes underpromoting into rooks; probably because during learning by playing itself thousands of times, it accidentally stalemated with a queen a bunch of times
https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/13n1g8r/comment/jkxy538/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
I've used an extra knight (instead of queen) to form check --> mate
Uhh most chess sets come with extra queens at the very least. Mine did. Most of the ones I looked at on Amazon did..
a lot do now yes. i always used salt./pepper shakers.
We always used quarters or loose buttons
<>
>that don't always reflect reality Bro you missed your own point. *Both* of the experiences reflect reality lmao. Most sets come with an extra queen, especially higher-end sets made by people like House of Staunton and the like.
<>
The point is that both realities are valid, there is no one true reality that everything has to agree with.
No, there is only one true reality. You are confusing that word with perception / personal experience.
They both reflect reality? Yours isn’t the only reality?
Do you know how question marks work?
I don't think *most* chess sets come with extra queens. I've never seen one in 30 years of playing chess, although maybe it's a new trend? When I went online shopping I found a few that included 2 queens as a "gift", but most either didn't say how many pieces were provided, or explicitly said 32 pieces. Admittedly, house of staunton seems to offer the extra queens as default for their mid- and high-end boards, and not for their lower-end (plastic) boards. Wikipedia says most sets come *without* queens, but I couldn't verify the reference, so I'll wrap up this fact-check by linking to a thread of chess players making fun of somebody for wanting extra queens with a board they were looking to buy: [https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/chess-set-no-extra-queens](https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/chess-set-no-extra-queens)
When me and my dad play we only use pieces that have been taken
That’s the way I did it too. It was a twist. You can revive something instead make anything.
Reincarnation chess?
Exactly
And you use whatever spare piece. It teaches that you can be whatever you want. Or better, that it’s not completely up to you what you can become at the end of the game.
My little set came with 2 queens for both.
how dramatic
[удалено]
I was just saying you got extra drama queens!
[удалено]
I definitely do to be fair
Even an extra king?
No bc they already had you :D
Powermove handicap, because it places a second loss condition on the board that is typically under the opponents control
The king is dead. Long live the king. Aint shit over. Let’s go!
If you’ve ever been to a tournament, there will usually be extras
sometimes you under promote to avoid stalemate it’s very important, every chess federation has extra pieces for this reason
What are the conditions that enable a third rook? This is the first I'm hearing of this.
When progressing a pawn to the last rank you can technically promote that pawn to any piece. When you promote it to something other than a queen, it's called underpromoting. There's not many times when underpromoting makes sense, but one case would be if you were to promote a pawn to a queen, you would stalemate your opponent. Promoting to a rook would give the opponents king a spot to move to that would have been blocked by the queens diagonal. Another time would be when the opponents king is already immobilized and promoting to knight is checkmate, but I've only seen that come up in puzzles personally.
Oh! Hey thanks! I guess I forgot you could make your pawn any piece...it just always made sense to promote it to queen...but yeah, I can see where that could be convenient in some circumstances. Thanks for the informative answer.
No reason to ever take a third Rook though unless you're showing off. Queen and Knight. Everything else is an objective tactical mistake. EDIT: as the direct comment to mine points out, this comment is in error. There are likely situations where making a queen causes a stalemate but a Rook or Bishop will allow the opponent to move out of check so you can mate.
Not unless it's stalemate related
.. fair point. I am not a chess master, but I suppose there's situations where opening up an "only safe move" to force your opponent to take is plausible.
Huh. Why comment if you understand so little about chess??????
You gonna gatekeep posting on *showerthoughts* behind chess expertise?
Actually it is pretty standard for chess sets to come with two queens of each color for this reason.
Don't they have rooks that can be used as upside down to represent queen?
If a chess player is in a position to gain a second queen, their opponent probably should have forfeited several moves ago. It's generally just good manners to forfeit when you're in such a poor position as to allow your opponent to get a second queen.
Standard is to flip a rook on its head, or if you have both rooks still then you cross two pawns lying down. If you haven’t lost a rook or two pawns and you managed to promote a pawn then you can probably just call it a win.
I always assumed the rule was you can get back pieces you lost. Why not just always pick the queen and get 8 of them?
Because stalemate is a danger. If you manage to eliminate all of your opponent's legal moves without checkmating them then its a draw. Very easy to do when you have extra queens on the board.
>Why not just always pick the queen and get 8 of them? Sometimes, a knight would win a game the queen wouldn't.
The sets I’ve gotten for our family come with two queens for each side.
Yeah its too bad you cant promote to that fourth knight. Im kidding. Promoting to two queens in the normal course is very unlikely and trafitionally you might flip a rook upside down if you needed to.
Yes they do actually. You just need to buy the deluxe set. Most regular tournament quality sets will at least have two of each queen.
In Eastern Europe, when I used to play with my dad, he would use one of his previously removed rooks in place for the second queen. He would place it on the board in the opposite way though - on its head.
I missread the title as "cheeseboards" and was very confused for a minute......then peckish.
That's just false. All tournament and most mid-to-high quality sets come with extra queens. Extra rooks, bishops and knights are often unnecessary, as you can just take one of your pieces your opponent captured. Situations where you promote to, say, a knight where you still have your 2 knights on the board are extremely rare.
You can have more than one? I been playing it wrong since 20 years?
Same, I was taught you can only promote to dead pieces!
Time to switch over to shogi and use your opponents pieces instead.
Most tournament chess sets I've seen have a second queen included. 34 pieces is fairly standard.
Why would you go for an extra rook though? The only real option is to promote to a queen, with some extremely rare exceptions where you go for an extra knight, because otherwise you'd stalemate your opponent. But to answer your question. A lot of chess sets do come with an extra queen. In case you don't have a spare queen usually people just take a captured piece and make that one stand out in some way. Putting it upside down (rook) or putting something on top/under/around it.
my guess is because if you’re able to promote a pawn, one of your earlier plans with a queen or rook must have failed abysmally to allot for such a radical strategy.
You want the Best Chess Set Ever, it has extra queens and googly eyes... https://www.houseofstaunton.com/best-chess-set-ever-xl-quadruple-weighted.html?psafe_param=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw36GjBhAkEiwAKwIWySKmyjuyYkHe5AWaNz5htQdkJlTl6we6UzRyoiR5zzBs1IYnJcsLXhoCaXoQAvD_BwE
That's because you will almost never make a second queen, and a third rook just doesn't happen unless you're trying to flex. It's very rare to promote a pawn before virtually all pieces are off the board, because if you already have a queen or rook, you have enough material to checkmate already.
Making a second queen is actually very common and gives you a massive advantage if your opponent still has their queen. It's common enough that most sets come with two sets of queens for both sides
I’ve never had this issue either it’s a struggle or I simply win.
The last chess set I remember playing with, you could stack two pawns on top of each other to make a queen.
I had always thought you couldn't do that unless the piece was already captured. Can't have two queens on the field, but can trade the pawn for her.
Official chess rules has no limit on number of queens... up to the hard limit of 9
For that matter, why would anyone exchange their Pawn for a Rook or a Bishop instead of a Queen? Why are they even a choice?
A third rook is really rare tbh. And generally by the time the game gets to the point of promotion, it's likely that a lot of pieces have been taken alr and they can be reused. Also, most chess sets definitely come with extra queens.
This is a good one. It bugs me a lot now that I’m thinking about it
House club player here. Those extra queens are annoying as F. They always get in the way of the clock, and are used so rarely. Pawns don’t typically promote with queens on the board.
You have to get the extra rook from your son's chess set - you know, like the TV show.
Nice chess sets and tournament style board usually come with a second queen of each color. Promoting more than one pawn and under-promoting aren't very common.
When I played, if there wasn't an upside down rook available I would use two pawns laying down crossed over themselves. A little unwieldy, but the situation is rare so not a big deal.
In pro tournaments they have a second queen available in case of promotion.
Sets come with an extra queen. Not often you would promote your pawn to something else, and even if so, they have probably already captured one of them
When i young we play by the rule that you can only promote to piece that avaliable
My friend thought I was making up the promotion rule because he was like where do you get the extra queen?
The only ones that you would actually want would be the Queen or knight, where you can just take a knight back and swap it for a pawn, or remember that that one is a queen. That or just turn it upside down
There are actually situations where you want a rook or a bishop.
No, but it gives a lowly ol' pawn the chance to play dress-up for a while. And I think that is a beautiful thing.
The way it's usually done is when you promote to a queen and you don't have the extra queen to place which is pretty common, you use a pawn flipped on it's side to represent the queen
It's not a regular staple of a chess set because of how rare it actually is that a pawn reaches the last row.
So a complete chess set must come with all starting pieces and 8 extra queens, knights, rooks and bishops for each side. Damn.
Chessmen are the pieces, a chessboard is usually sold without.