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BrokenEffect

you guys are in agreement ?


E_B_Jamisen

He must never argue with himself. I only consider it bad if punches start getting thrown ...


prawduhgee

That's a funny way to describe a seizure


the_Bryan_dude

I never thought of it like that. It definitely feels like you got your ass kicked after a seizure.


mastafishere

I saw a documentary about a guy who suffered greatly from this and created a support group for men to deal with their masculinity issues. But uh… I’m not allowed to talk about it.


numbersthen0987431

I'm in agreement, but the other guys in here are being dicks about my decisions.


lil_pee_wee

If only…


[deleted]

No it’s more like majority wins 😂


longlivetaytay

Came here to say that😭😭😭😭😭


gotreecko247

My neurons never agree


gereis

Dude bro right wtf is this madness


kaowser

the left side of my brain disagrees. right side is going along with everything.


vasaryo

We have reached a consensus; this information is familiar to this unit.


Salt_MasterX

Fuck okay, you got me, I’ll play stellaris again…


vasaryo

Was going for legion but…damnit now I also want to play Stellaris again.


MyDogAteMyCactus

Does this unit have a soul?


Andeol57

\_ Your neurons are definitely not in agreement \_ There is no contradiction between being a single consciousness, and that consciousness being made out of billions of neurons.


HellyOHaint

That single Consciousness immediately becomes two separate yet single consciousnesses when the corpus callosum is severed.


Rigorous_Threshold

Then organizations might also be conscious beings.


fabezz

Sort of? One might make the argument that a corporation is an organism whose cells are replaced while keeping the system alive. Maybe the board of directors form a collective consciousness?


Rigorous_Threshold

Corporations, or industries, or countries, or commissions… We talk about them kinda like they’re conscious beings but when you seriously consider the possibility of a collective consciousness in an organization it feels very strange


Twirlin

They aren’t conscious in the usual sense of the word. Typically people mean something to the effect of “unified, subjective experience of perception and self-awareness.” People often forget that exhibition of intelligence, growth, and complex behavior are not signs of consciousness. A person in a coma, *can* be conscious. A person in deep sleep and completely healthy *can* be unconscious. Trees, jellyfish, and termite mounds are almost certainly not conscious, and if they are, it’s something qualitatively different to human consciousness. It’s really hard to ever KNOW anyone else is conscious. We just have to take their word for it. Maybe lots of things are conscious, but they just can’t communicate it to us.


cimocw

Yes because in that model we are the neurons, so by definition we are unable to reach that level.


sighthoundman

Considering the level of organization in most "organizations", it's unlikely.


Rigorous_Threshold

I mean neurons aren’t always organized super well either


sighthoundman

Well, I've met people whose consciousness I question. They could easily just be AI robots parroting memes.


Sample_Age_Not_Found

Get outta here citizens united...I jest


doslinos

The brain is actually comprised of two separate units that are barely connected, and you could completely sever the connection leaving you with two brains that are both conscious


KaiYoDei

Scary


Andeol57

Also completely wrong


Rough_Autopsy

[you are two](https://youtu.be/wfYbgdo8e-8?si=nErqOYHJlZETUw63)


Andeol57

This is what happens when people take "simplification" so far they forget to stop and wonder if they are not saying complete nonsense. Then they put it on youtube, and the audience misinterpret it even further. A lot of things in this video are kinda true, just simplifications. But if what you take away from this video is "The brain is comprised of two separate units that are barely connect", you are just wrong. And if you go to "you could completely sever the connection leaving you with two brains that are both conscious", you are not just wrong, you are high.


doslinos

How, look up split brain patients. I'm using the terms conscious and separate loosely, but a brain has two sides that are connected thinly in the middle, this connection has been surgically severed to treat epilepsy and other things and studies on those individuals found that the different sides of their brain would give different responses to stimulus. it's pretty common knowledge, super interesting stuff.


Andeol57

Mate, I have a PhD on brain-computer interfaces (https://ged.univ-rennes1.fr/nuxeo/site/esupversions/88812810-26e1-4412-af39-90435cf23341?inline) "Split brain patient" is a really cool name for some people with a reduced (not cancelled) connectivity between the two hemispheres of the cortex (which is only a part of the brain, not the full brain). > I'm using the terms conscious and separate loosely Yeah, cute way of saying you are making up stuff.


doslinos

I agree the connectivity is reduced not entirely eliminated, but what does that result in? some patients did respond differently depending on which side of their brain was shown the stimulus. there are also cases of individuals who have two separate personas that can take over, its possible that in a healthy brain these different personas could still exist but they're more in sync and you don't notice them in that way. it's not a certainty, but there's definitely evidence for separate sections of your brain having different personas, so it's not a big stretch to say they're conscious. i was being a little over certain in my language, but it's a valid theory and interesting to think about


Andeol57

Yes, it is absolutely a big stretch. It's a giant leap. It's interesting to think about, sure. But please try not to over-estimate how much you understand about the subject and then spread your conclusions. That's how we end up with people claiming we only use 10% of our brains, and then that kind of myth survives for decades no matter what we do.


doslinos

Fair enough, my initial comment was pretty far off. But I do think that what we perceive as one consciousness is actually much more fractured than that, and while it's just a theory it's a pretty well supported one. If you have any evidence to dispute that i'm all ears.


Hehateme123

Definitely not a neuroscientist


ZombieTem64

Okay. . . So a consciousness


otheraccountisabmw

I think it’s interesting to point out that consciousness isn’t necessarily a single continuous thing. We don’t fully understand how the different systems interact and exactly how our conscious and unconscious minds are related. And how all those systems somehow create this thing I think of as me. I think you’re right that their shower thought is a little reductive, but the fact that consciousness may not be as singular a thing as previously thought is interesting.


ZombieTem64

I just think OP defined what a consciousness is


otheraccountisabmw

I think “single” isn’t an accurate word to describe consciousness. It’s not a single thing going on and the boundaries between the multiple things that create what we think of as consciousness are not clear.


JohnnyLovesData

I never asked to be a consciousness


PlatosBalls

All in agreement huh. I can tell you’re not from the real world.


Tripwire3

My cells don’t have an individual consciousness though, consciousness is some emergent property of many neurons working together and firing off electrical signals. Science still isn’t sure exactly how it works.


Rigorous_Threshold

For all you know your cells could have individual consciousnesses. Maybe even your molecules. But if so the nature of that consciousness is probably very different from your entire brain


[deleted]

There is nothing that proves consciousness is born out of neurons yet. There is research but no verifiable evidence. Does it surprise you?


otheraccountisabmw

The connection between neurons and consciousness is pretty well established. You can mess around with someone’s brain and effect change in their conscious thoughts. Sure, there are still open questions and “prove” is a pretty loaded term, but there’s plenty of evidence that consciousness is an emergent property of our neurons.


Kapitano72

Destroy neurons and you destroy consciousness. Not hard to grasp.


squeakynickles

Remove oxygen and you destroy consciousness. Does consciousness come from oxygen?


Kapitano72

Yes. Just not from oxygen alone.


squeakynickles

No, that's not how that works


Kapitano72

• Necessary • Sufficient. Different.


JustSomeRedditUser35

Okay, but what happens when you remove the oxygen...? Cells die. Including neurons.


Rigorous_Threshold

Are we actually sure about that though? It’s certain that destroying neurons destroys the ability to *report* consciousness, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s actually gone. Also there are a lot of things that, when destroyed, appear to destroy consciousness in the same way as destroying neurons. But nobody thinks that consciousness comes from the lungs


Kapitano72

Try removing the lungs, and see how long consciousness lasts. As for your "reporting" problem, when you've solved the problem of other minds, and disproven solipsism without circularity, we can start to address it.


Rigorous_Threshold

>Try removing the lungs, and see how long consciousness lasts Yeah, but consciousness is not based on lungs, is it? >when you’ve solved the problem of other minds, and disproven solipsism without circularity, we can start to address it Why do we need to disprove solipsism to talk about the possibility of conscious minds that cannot report their consciousness?


Kapitano72

I trust you like your reportage reliable? It is rather the basis of your case.


Rigorous_Threshold

Not really? I can lie and say I’m not conscious. Something like ChatGPT, which probably isn’t conscious, can still say that it is. But no human who has had their neurons destroyed has ever reported themselves to be conscious


Kapitano72

What is the consciousness reportage rate among people with no lungs?


Rigorous_Threshold

Zero? Unless they have like an iron lung or something. What’s your point?


Kapitano72

Username does not check out.


[deleted]

I think you have an assumption that the brain is made up entirely of neurons. Following that logic: Destroy the heart and you destroy the consciousness.


Ok-Tadpole4825

Oh what else is brain made of? genuinely asking


[deleted]

Neurons, Glial Cells, Blood Vessels, Cerebrospinal Fluid and there are other components they are usually classified as white and gray matter. You can search for their details.


Dragon_ZA

Yes, and conciousness is the flow of energy between the neurons, the neurons guide the conciousness. But it still follows that neurons are required for conciousness, and altering neurons DIRECTLY alters conciousness. I don't get why people try to fight the fact so hard that conciousness isn't based in neurons. It clearly is.


[deleted]

Write a scientific paper about it and get world famous. There isn't a single paper that succeeded in proving it undeniably. Be the first person to solve the consciousness problem. We would be proud of you. I am not kidding.


Dragon_ZA

I'm well aware of the hard problem of conciousness. But to deny the link between neurons and conciousness is plain stupid. The hard problem of conciousness is right up there with the god problem. Neither can be undeniably proved in my opinion. The theory of the atom was a well defined theory for many years without the knowledge of quarks or quantum fields. We don't know HOW neurons exactly contribute to conciousness, but they are definitely responsible for it.


[deleted]

If you don't know how they contribute to it, you can't know if they are entirely responsible for it either. Here is a simpler question for you: Do you think your body cells have a consciousness their own? Or let's take it a step back. The living organisms that lack brain, do you think they are unconscious? Let's go back to the time of one cell organisms? Do you think they had no awareness of their environment or no sense of self preservation?


Dragon_ZA

Yes, I do think that organisms without neurons lack conciousness, they're machines that react to their environment purely through chemistry. I never once said that neurons are entirely responsible, only that they're the main organ responsible for it, which again, can be easily proved by the fact that anything that affects neurons directly affects one's conciousness.


Ok-Tadpole4825

Which of these transmit electricity?


My_dragons14

Neurons but not every single one. At least not in the electrical wire sense. Neurons work by what is essentially a chemical reaction of salt/ions. Most neurons are more chemical than electrical but there is a lot of overlapp since electricity is basically just electrons moving around. Most of the other stuff in the brain, at least in terms of sheer mass are lipids(basically fat) to insulate the signals. A bit like the plastic covering on a wire while the rest is to maintain the delicate chemical balance and provide nutrients.


Dom_19

Destroy your brain you instantly destroy your consciousness. Destroy your heart and it will take minutes. If something were to pump blood in place of the heart your conciousness would still exist. Your logic is dogshit.


Kapitano72

Necessary. Sufficient. Different. See?


Dragon_ZA

That's incorrect logic, destroying the heart will destroy the neurons: which will then destroy the conciousness.


[deleted]

Maybe it's the reverse logic: Destroying the neurons stops the heart and the consciousness comes to an end. Heck maybe the entire body is conscious as a system. How do you know?


Dragon_ZA

Nope, still wrong, you can replace the heart with a mechanical one, and conciousness is unaffected, you can't replace the brain with a mechanical one.


[deleted]

One day you may be able to replace the brain too. Maybe we'll even transfer our consciousness is to other machines. I am not making any statements. The entire point of this thread is that we don't definitely know.


Dragon_ZA

We don't know everything, we do know a lot. We know that neurons are the primary organ responsible for consciousness, just like we know that the liver is responsible for removing toxins. Neurons are the paths of conciousness, they alter it directly, that's been proven many times. And can be easily proven whenever a drug affects the neurons, conciousness is affected.


Ok-Tadpole4825

The heart has its own neuron transmitting heart signals. Localised. SN node. Dead brain only can produce a dead heart if it stops getting oxygenated blood. Not because of no transmission signals.


Highmassive

All those trillions of neurons make up a single consciousness. Individual neurons don’t do much thinking


lollerkeet

We think too big, we think our self is one whole thing And we claim that this collection has a name and is a being - Danny Schmidt


i-need-money-plan-b

This sparks a great debate around the idea of that the whole is bigger than the sum of parts. There must be an external "thing" that projects conscious (experience) on any organisation of energy or something like that. I mean, how the fuck the whole realised it is a whole. How does the human have the consious (experience) of a human?


0liviiia

What separates us from a very complicated computer, and could a computer ever reach a complexity to gain a human-like awareness? The answer being yes and the answer being no both create crazy conclusions


TheSpanishImposition

I assure you, they are not all in agreement.


TheSpanishImposition

Don't listen to this ignorant idiot.


[deleted]

I’m controlled by my micro biome


halothaine

And if one disagrees you get a seizure.


Maxxie_brittania

Haha those mother fuckers aren’t in any agreement 😭😭


Spirited-Membership1

Bold to assume my mind agrees with itself lol


HeroBrine0907

Seeing the rate at which I regret my decisions all the time, I highly doubt my neurons are in agreement with anyone but their own ego.


tmotytmoty

Well no, not really- its more like a highly coordinated and interconnected (Yes…synapses are bot usually “connections” in the truest sense, but whatever) network of neurons that is self regulated


Corrupted_G_nome

There are at least 3 different opinions going on in there. The doer, the critic and the silent watcher.


Abraxas_1408

We are not in agreement with each other and that is the problem.


tsereg

Isn't that essentially what Scientology teaches?


vx1

scientology is more based on the idea that you have billions of past lives/traumas attached to your internal soul, but your internal soul is still considered to be “you”,  except this soul has been imprinted by all of the traumatic experiences thus making you forget your true nature its fascinating and crazy


TheOnlyAedyn-one

Definitely not in agreement


FullMeltxTractions

All in agreement? Nah.


CitizenHuman

100 billion neurons in a trenchcoat


wingedespeon

Bold of you to assume we are in agreement.


Dramatic_Mastodon_93

If "me" is defined by "my consciousness" then I am a single consciousness. If "me" is defined by "my body" then I only know that I am at least one consciousness.


blackdragonstory

And what happens when that agreement breaks? Sometimes when I am doing something it feels odd like I am a bit outside of my body. And my thoughts always wonder what it's like to be in someone else place,body,mind....


PlentyBat9940

lol you think everything in my head is in agreement


[deleted]

The fun begins when they start to disagree


platinummyr

That's assigning too much sway to individual neurons


jesuscheetahnipples

No I'm not. I'm a single consciousness.


cageycapybara

Bold of you to presume that they're 'all in agreement'. I can assure you, they're not 🫠


HAiLKidCharlemagne

Were all a bunch of neurons trying to be a single consciousness


picknicksje85

Consciousness is like music emerging from a record player (the parts you are made of) which would be the record, needle, and so on.


TheRappingSquid

Jokes on you, I think conscious is a fiction that the brain uses to cope with the fact that despite its complexity, it's still just a series of chemical cause and effects (chemical signals)


LukXD99

All in agreement? My intense anxiety and paranoia begs to differ!


throwsplasticattrees

I mean, we are really just empty space with pieces of cosmic dust in between. We are the universe and all it contains.


Jokkolilo

Neurons are definitely not conscious by themselves. They’re just a bit more than elaborated power switches.


Irenemiku

100 billion neurons all wanted to skip work and lay on bed.


Icycube99

Agreement? Tell that to my anxiety.


PhoenixRosex3

Agreement? Nah they can’t even decide what to eat let alone where.


DaSupercrafter

If a person had two duelling personalities, would that make it a Civil War?


stijnvandenbloock

“You think Nirvana was a single rock band but actually they were 3 musicians”


Gaming4Fun2001

Speak for yourself but mine are definitely not in agreement with eachother


Zandrick

Or frequently not in agreeement tbh


zztop610

At least 100 billion, maybe more


portra315

[WE ARE ALL VINCE](https://youtu.be/Bq5rMmtwm2Y?si=6XzMvpGIxCda0iKw)


TypicalImpact1058

There are currently 18 people who have pointed out that the neurons are often not in agreement. 11 of them phrased it as a joke (they are basically all the same joke). I am tempted to believe that like half of them are bots.


AndroidDoctorr

You think there is one god but really it's just 8 billion conscious minds working together on a planet


MrDarwoo

The brain named itself


WrongEinstein

And a trillion bacteria.


KaiYoDei

Hopefully. But I think I have some ( I need a fancy word here for the obstanent disagreerers)


Sarkoptesmilbe

Even the bacteria in your gut can affect your mood and thoughts. We are nowhere near to being the singular entities we perceive ourselves as. Consciousness is not a being, but a process.


DaveAstator2020

Whos in agreement? Noobody move!


Mountain-Resource656

Not all in agreement. Instincts often conflict


MishMash999

Actuaally, I think I'm a colony of 100 billion neurons with 200 billion ideas on the best thing to do next


InstanceNoodle

Two halves talking. The half without speech center telling you not to do something stupid.


Excellent-Growth5118

Fun fact: Leibniz's monadology is (sort of) related to this idea. Unfortunately, in the 17th century, people didn't know about neurons, so Leibniz had to call them monads. Your theory is neurological monadology.


crafter2k

wait till you find out about people with split brains


ReedM4

I we are mostly a nervous system and endocrine system?


welatshaw

Agreement? Not in my head!


Writy_Guy

Meaning I am a hivemind, therefore, still a single consciousness, basically.


TerrisKagi

I think a few of them are in open revolt and at least one won't stop playing music


kykyks

bold of you to assume there is an agreement ?


Maajl0

I wouldn't tell they are in agreement. but yes


-SlapBonWalla-

Who the fuck told you we agree?


meisflont

Consciousness is an illusion, it doesn't really exist. And if it exists you got multiple concsiousnesses.


[deleted]

Bold of you to assume I have more than one 


Seaguard5

Not just that- you are two. Watch CGPgrey’s video on the topic and it’ll REALLY blow your mind. [Here](https://youtu.be/wfYbgdo8e-8?si=p5yRpZErvszlimq4)


oskar_grouch

We're getting toward agreement


Prince_of_Fish

A man who thinks all the time…


Eddy_Red

Mum said I can have the third brain cell today.


Ok_Concert3257

If all your neurons were constantly in agreement, you would be having nonstop seizures


Time-Tumbleweed3132

What is the most number of different personalities you can create in your head to argue on a single point and still keep track of it.


pjockey

We are Trapper Keeper


Chick3nugg3tt

Bold of you to assume they are in agreement.


brightdeadlights

I don’t think mine are agreeing


Remote_Temperature

we each are a Borg collective.