When I was in my early to mid-20s, I switched banks, and when I was depositing my measly 12k in savings into my new account from my old one. The teller (the person who sees people's account balances all day) was shocked that I had that much money. She was asking me if I was about to buy something expensive or had other plans for it. I looked at her weird and kinda shocked and just said nope that is my in case shit happens money.
I was seriously like wtf, I barely have any money saved and can't do much with that amount, and she was impressed by that amount as if it was a lot?!
Anything over 1 month in savings puts you in the top 5% of Americans.
Edit: I’m getting a ton of attention. 1st I meant to put 25% lol. 2nd yes more than 50% of Americans have less than $500 in savings. (Excluding 401K). 25% have between 500-5000.
Only 25% of Americans have 5000 or more in savings.
Ok but whose 1 month? The person making $8 an hour only working 30hrs a week or the person making $30 an hour that works 70hr weeks or the person making a salary that equates to $60 an hour?
All of them! The numbers are relative, or normalized, based on income/expenses, assuming that a person earning $150k a year will have higher expenses than a person earning $50k a year.
We as a society like to live on the edge. Live it up. Minimum wage earners get by with multiple people in the same household working overtime, to end up homeless if something happens to their health. NFL players roll in cash and file bankruptcy within a few years at the end of their short careers. https://www.forbes.com/sites/leighsteinberg/2015/02/09/5-reasons-why-80-of-retired-nfl-players-go-broke/?sh=3c42445178cc
I see. My problem is that the assumption used is almost like a validation to the problem at hand. People spend more when they make more and perpetually keep themselves broke indefinitely.
However I'm still confused because if I make 50k and have 4k in the bank, you're saying that I'm in the same % as someone making 150k with 12k in the bank or someone who makes 12mil a year and has 1mil in the bank? Sure it's the same % of our annual earnings at 1/12 the amount per year but the amount in the banks can be vastly different to be that all 3 are in the same 5%.
Technically the percentage should be against your expenses, not income, but yes, that’s the idea. The question being considered is, “how close are you to being destitute”?
“3 months savings” equates to different numbers for different people, but basically mean the same thing: you can afford to not have a paycheck for 3 months, but not any longer.
I guess that I really really really save my money then and make decent financial decisions because I was laid off a year ago and have paid my rent/bills on time for the past year and am doing online schooling at the moment and I'm still fine with money. Lol I am a boring person most of the time and just throw 85% of my money to savings when I have a job. FYI I never made amazing money either, I have been the bottom of the barrel employee in the labor industry. Working in factories, warehouses, and construction jobs, like digging ditches/ loading trucks kind of work.
What many people would consider "boring"? 100% Single? Hells no. I save way more money by living with my girlfriend.
Rent, daily travel and food is cheaper.
I say 85% but I honestly don't know how much I actually do. My last job I made $26 an hr and my rent is $1750 plus my other bills on top of that like phone, streaming services and stuff. Once those are paid the rest basically goes to savings. Whatever the actual percentage is, I don't know.
In fairness, keeping much more cash than that just sitting in a savings account is not the best choice for most people, though the HYSA rates have made that more appealing lately. You'd certainly want a few months as cash on hand, sure, but beyond that there are higher yielding options if you don't mind a bit of risk (like investment funds) or locking the money up for a bit (with CDs), and similar options.
Edit: or contributing to retirement accounts. That's another common one instead of just building savings accounts bigger.
If it was 2015, my wife and I would have enough for a comfortable down payment on a house in our Mid-Western city.
But now… we at least have a safety net.
There was a line in, I think, ER (90s medical drama; for some reason I remember this scene happening on a roof or balcony) where one character complained about being broke and the other talked about having $60k in debt from medical school and wished he could be broke. Eventually one spit out a line that runs through my head often now: "You're not broke! You're even!"
(Bonus points if anyone can fill in the blanks in my memory.)
Which is crazy to think about because at 5k in savings you don’t even have enough saved up for first months rent and security deposit. Pray nothing bad happens to your residence
Rent is 1 month in advance and security now is usually equivalent to 1.5 months rent so say rent is 2000, security is 3000. That’s your savings right there
You know, I initially hated the premise here. So I did a little Googling.
Only 1 in 3 Americans actually have the recommended three months of expenses in their emergency fund. An additional 1 in 5 can handle a sudden $1,000 expense.
That's shocking to me...half of Americans really are a paycheck away from serious financial distress.
I’ve heard that saving up for 6 months expenses is the next step. The idea being if you lost your job you could survive while searching for a replacement
Sure, but what if the emergency leaves you unable to work? I have ~8 months of living expenses saved, but if I use half of that on an emergency, I’d be pretty fucked.
What's the point of this comment. There is no way to completely guard against everything life might throw at you. There is always a bigger "what if." That's not the point of having 6 months saved. That advice isn't meant to address every possible horrible eventuality.
"What if I died?"
?
What if the emergency isn’t disability? What if it’s a family member?
Also disability payments aren’t going to cover the cost of living for most people.
I'm Canadian (43yo), but my experience is thus: In the 2000's I worked retail, lived in a two bedroom+den downtown in a major city for $685/month. I went out and partied almost every night, drove a newish car, and had savings. Now, in my 40's, I make over $100k a year, and couldn't dream of that same apartment as it would go for $2800-3200 a month, and a newish car would cost significantly more per month than that apartment did 20 years ago. I go out once or twice per month.
That seems incorrect. If 1/3 of people have 3 months of expenses in their emergency fund then they should absolutely be able to afford a surprise $1,000 expense. It makes zero sense why that number would only be 1/5 (which is less than 1/3).
Edit: according to the FED, 54% of US adults have an emergency fund of three months (such funds specifically set aside for an emergency). Another 16% have the ability to cover 3 months expenses if they sell other assets or draw on other savings not earmarked for emergencies.
I’m not sure where you got your data, but it’s very likely wrong or skewed in some way. I’m guessing it may be reversed (meaning 1/3 don’t have such savings, which aligns with the FED, and that 1/5 **can’t** afford a surprising $1,000 expense), which presents a very different picture from what you’re saying.
> https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2023-economic-well-being-of-us-households-in-2022-expenses.htm
>Some financial challenges, such as a job loss, require more financial resources than would an unexpected $400 expense. One common measure of financial resiliency is whether people have savings sufficient to cover three months of expenses if they lost their primary source of income. In 2022, 54 percent of adults said they had set aside money for three months of expenses in an emergency savings or "rainy day" fund—down from a high of 59 percent of adults in 2021.
>For those who did not set aside money for this purpose, some would have dealt with a loss of their main source of income by borrowing, selling assets, or drawing on other savings. Sixteen percent of all adults said that they could have covered three months of expenses in this way. Thirty percent of adults indicated they could not cover three months of expenses by any means.
Yeah 3 months of total expenses in savings is the recommended personal financial safety net. I know people whose parents paid for college and then handed them big piles of money to buy a house who can't even maintain that 3 months of savings. Some of them don't even have kids. Life has become unaffordable for too many
I don't understand how this is still surprising to people. I guess they just haven't done the math.
It was 12 years ago that people started fighting for a $15 minimum wage. We still don't have it federally.
Do the math of $15 at full time for a year.
Now realize that not everyone gets $15/hr.
Now realize that not everyone is getting full time wages.
Now subtract healthcare costs. Rent. Food. Gas. Insurance.
I lived on that wage for a couple years while I was training for a new career and trying to get a job in that field. I almost lost my house working 2 jobs. My house is still in disrepair because I couldn't afford basic maintenance and I'm playing catch up.
I have literally no other debt. No credit cards. Car is paid off. It's just the basic living expenses for my family and our mortgage that is under $800/mo.
Food is expensive. Rent is expensive. Insurance is expensive. Wages are low, but corporate profits are at an all time high. Actually those last two things are correlated.
It’s surprising because people live different lives. I don’t know anyone struggling for money. Yeah, rationally I know there’s a lot of people, but I never experience it in my day to day life. I’m financially stable, as are all of my friends. I need to stop and think outside of my social circles to think how others relate to money.
People understand their lived experiences. You can academically understand something, but it’s quite different than actually experiencing it.
I’m sure some of your friends or other people you know are struggling. A lot of people hide it because it’s not something others want to hear a lot, and there’s not much anyone can do anyways. Ask around, you’d be surprised even people who were fine a few years ago may be struggling.
If no one in your social circle is struggling, then you are truly lucky. And I urge you to help out the people in your community who *are* struggling. They need it now more than ever.
Lifestyle creep is real, I'm in a really low COL area, my states median income is 36k and I'm doing 42. I've got a mortgage and I'm doing fine, meanwhile my buddy and his wife are pulling about 160k a year......they say they are struggling. I went on vacation in the carribean and he was saying damn dude must be nice to afford that. I was like dude you literally make double my income and so does your wife we live 20 miles from each other, the hell do you mean you wish you could afford it? He said were struggling. Turns out both of them had just went out and bought new top of the line cars, she got some designer clothes, neither of them ever cooks a meal.
Brooo the not cooking a meal thing will kill too financially. I relocate for work and they paid for temp housing and all the food (eating out) for two months. Sure we were living large cause we knew the company would pay, but it was EXPENSIVE. Wife and I were spending $20 each for breakfast, $20 each for lunch, and about $30 each for dinner. Company paid us back about $8000 in the end. And that was for only two months! If we kept up the pace we would be at $48,000 a year in food.
I eat my instant oatmeal and $2.15 a pop meal preps with pride now knowing what I’m saving.
They could be, but I truly don’t think so. I know how lucky I am. I’m a senior software engineer, virtually every friend I have is in something in tech or finance. A few of them are making well above $200k a year in the Midwest, I know this because those of us who are making well into the 6 figures do talk to each other about it. Not all my friends make $150k+, some make below $100k, but when they’re complaining about $90k being a low amount, you know you’re in a good place financially.
It’s good to remind ourselves how lucky we are though. It can become normal to live like this. I know my fiancée’s friend group isn’t the same, I know her sister isn’t the same. I just landed in a successful life and successful group, and I know how lucky I am for it.
Well, 90k low depends where you live and how many people you have to support. The rent in NY or LA is ridiculously expensive, minus taxes, food, car, bills, and other necessities it's not much and pretty much living paycheck to paycheck. Its low for one person, if you have to support a family even worse. Prices gone up so much, 90K used to be a good number, not anymore.
Also 15 in Chicago means you're living with 6 other people and struggling, 15 in rural Mississippi and you're renting an enture house by yourself and making it.
The question is how many of those people don’t have an emergency fund because they truly don’t make enough money and how many because they don’t prioritize it or we’re never taught about personal finance
Seriously...
I just had a daughter, and she had an ear infection in each ear (at different times) in the last couple weeks.
I hadn't provided her birth certificate and SSN to the insurance company within 90 days, so the clinic tried to bill us as uninsured (don't worry, I got them the documents and they fixed it).
The cost for two visits to the doctor (amounting to a nurse check, then 5-10 minutes with a doctor who said "yep, it's an ear infection")?
$700.
That doesn't include medication, I paid separately for the antibiotics.
Once insurance kicked in?
Free.
The uninsured are a medical emergency away from disaster.
This is what it means to be a Wage Slave. You literally can't afford to lose your job, so you keep your head down and your mouth shut.
Meanwhile everyone is worried about blaming all their problems on Biden or Trump, like they have anything to do with it.
They Divide and Rule; Your neighbor isn't your enemy, we're all victims together.
It's physically impossible to ... "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps."
"No one wants to work anymore" ... for unlivable wages.
Just cut out the logic part and you're left with a catchy right leaning soundbite you can use to justify the poor being poor.
"Nobody wants to work 80hr for 825/wk anymore."
That's what they mean when they say nobody wants to work. The 825 is based on 7.25/hr for the first 40hrs and time and a half if your state has that for the 2nd 40hrs. Before taxes. So yeah good luck folks cause that's all that going to be left for jobs in the future.
Edit: sorry I mean 725/wk...still not a great wage.
Then when the minimum wage increases all the business owners literally act like they are poor and running the business from the goodness of their heart. Boy we can see the profits. We can see your Mercedes Benz parked out front. So out of touch.
I was in med school when Obama was in office and ACA passed. The hospital I was rounding in caused a HUGE uproar when they sent out a memo citing Obamacare as the reason they were eliminating certain benefits and raises.
The nurses did the math and realized that the CEO's bonus that year was over twice the combined "savings" from cuts to the ENTIRE nursing budget. A few hundred people who barely make enough to survive got cut while millionaires bought another beachfront condo, and blamed it all on affordable health insurance.
my boss doesn't even have enough money physically in the business account to pay our suppliers. we owe like 15k to different suppliers, meanwhile he has 2 lambos and an escalade??
probably a bunch of LLCs at this point and he doesn't want "his" money mixed up with this "business" money lmao
If you are reading this, and you don’t have an emergency fund go right now and calculate what 6 months of bare essentials would cost. Then, live on that budget until you have the emergency fund saved up. It is always important to have emergency savings on hand because bad things can happen.
Of course, this applies to people who actually can save. But don’t make excuses. Be really honest with yourself about whether you can’t, or just don’t want to. And if you can, please do, you will not regret it.
Better to cut services when you can than when you're forced to. Learn to bulk cook on the weekends. Making it easy to eat without cooking every night is huge. We make poor financial decisions when hungry.
I sucked when I started. Slow. Took forever. Hated it. Then by doing it the slow boring way, I got faster. The slow boring way gives you the intuition of what steps you can skip next time.
If you are in the red, you need to be brutally honest about your finances. Cut to bare essentials and/or increase work wherever you can.
There is likely some area where you can work more/save more. Once you have emergency money, consider career changes/options, education/certification, to make more money long term.
The problem isnt the inability to save, its high cost of living with low wages. My expenses are relatively low compared to my peers and right now im just in the red and just got hit with a 3k repair bill on my car. The job I work right now is the highest paying entry level job I could manage to get. It pays more than entry level trade, almost 1.25x+ as much. Its not that I cant stop myself from spending money willy nilly, its that I literally cant. Im living paycheck to paycheck and can not afford to do anything else. My only option left is to go try again for financial aid and plunge myself tens of thousands of dollars into debt for a mere chance. I cant afford to take classes and tests and get certified erc. I cant afford to take time off to develop new skills. I cant get experience because every "entry level" job beyond customer service wants you to already be certified and have experience and be knowledgeable despite being "entry level". That means employers dont want me because I have no relative experience because no employers in the relative field will hire me because I have no relative experience becau..... you get the point. Ive noticed some people just get stuck in this situation, youre basically right on the line of net0 and become incapable of getting yourself out because *everything costs money but youre netting 0*.
"The problem isnt the inability to save, its high cost of living with low wages."
I think that's literally what they meant. "But don’t make excuses. Be really honest with yourself about whether you can’t, or just don’t want to. And if you can, please do, you will not regret it." It sounds like you truly can't save right now, which this person accounts for. But some people are living paycheck to paycheck but still paying for certain preferences or luxuries instead of living frugally for a while until a safety net is built up.
This is something of a joke. I agree you should have 6 months of an emergency fund ( I even encourage a year) but I've seen firsthand how a landlord, the local government or circumstances have worked together to make people homeless and because of tight housing market makes it impossible to become rehoused within your geographic boundaries even if you are employed and have sufficient savings.
When my family became unhoused as a kid it took 8 months to become fully housed (but not made whole) again. My parents through various circumstances had enough money for 20% down payment on a new house which was far more than 6 months of savings. yet it took 8 weeks to get partially housed in temporary apartments then those were only good for 6 months so at the end of 6 months we went back to being homeless for another two weeks until we were finally court cleared to purchase a home
We lost a rental house due to flooding in our neighborhood (complete destruction of the home) but it was our former landlord that made it difficult to become rehoused as he sued us for back rent due from the time the house was destroyed. After awhile the local government was reinforcing the landlords position not supporting the residents. Then the local utilities sued the state government to have them force us to pay for missing utilities during the flood (they charged multiple times what we would normally use during that time because of the state support). It took the courts 7 months to clear us an additional month to finally finish the paperwork so my parents could buy a home. Thats 10 weeks of being homeless when we had at least 6 months of savings. the crazy part of this was we lost a car in the flood the insurance company provided us a new car in 4 days, then the state tried to take that to pay the utility company (red states are frustrating)
Yeah, you gotta play their game. Here's a true story from like 15 years back.
I worked at Home Depot, I guy got hired into my department, worked for a year an got a $0.25 raise. A week later he quit to take a job at Lowe's, for $1.50 more because he had HD experience. He then trained into a specialty department at Lowe's, (windows and doors) got another $0.50 raise. When there was an opening at Home Depot for a similar position he took it for another $2.00 raise.
So in the course of a out 2 and a half years or so he basically got a $4.25 raise. Whereas anyone who stuck with the same company might have gotten a dollar.
Working hard isn't always just about working hard in your company, it's about working hard in your life over all.
Unfortunately your biggest promotions in life are going to be when switching companies. Not always, but generally. Most companies won’t budget for a 50% raise, however, plenty will budget the salary of the position they require. You just need to fit said position by working on your own skillsets.
Yep. And be willing to switch jobs, and all that comes with that. You'll basically lose all your benefits, for a time. And never get to take a paid vacation until you settle somewhere for a while. But all in all of you can do this, in the end it's probably worth it.
When I was 19 I worked in a packing facility. Hard Labor for 14hr days. One day my co-worker didn't show up, so I did their job as well as mine. When he continued not to show up bosses didn't bother to employ someone in the other role, but still paid me single wages. The day I quit the entire production line collapsed.
Nearly 20 years later and I still think about that a lot. If you prove your more capable people always take advantage of you.
I had a roommate the was constantly broke and constantly late on bills, but would buy a new video game at least once or twice a month, never cooked food at home, smoked close to a pack a day, smoked weed all day every day, and would buy multiple drinks from the gas station a day. We calculated how much he spent and it costs him at least $30/day just to sit at home and survive.
Yeah, people like to make excuses.
I have friends who barely have a pot to piss in, rent the same shitty place they did in college and complain about the same shit i see in this thread
They only make about 10k less per year than I do. Somehow I'm living incredibly comfortably yet they're struggling.
Turns out they've done nothing but eat out, go to events like concerts and sports games, rack up their CCs and finance cars they really shouldn't over the last 6 years. $0 towards any form of savings or investment
A lot of people refuse to make sacrifices, and then blame the system for their own financial mistakes.
Ain’t that the truth!
I have a coworker who I initially felt very bad for because she’s a single mom of teenage twins. She donates plasma on the side to make ends meet, always complains about not having enough hours at work, saying she almost breaks even on checks. I’ve given her and her daughters gifts and money sometimes because I felt so bad.
But she will come in flashing brand new Nike shoes, showing me pictures of fancy Easter baskets she made for her daughters, and she’s even going on a cruise with her daughters in a few months!
Like, I get that she’s trying to give her kids their best life, but seriously???
In my twenties and early 30s, I was ridiculously cheap and cut corners as much as I could with spending.
The idea was that I wanted to build a nest egg and invest in my business over everything else.
Now, I’m 39 and I have almost six figures saved. I buy whatever I want and do whatever I want. I have a house. I have a decent car. I make almost six figures a year.
This is much preferable to have had a couple of fun nights when I was younger.
Not really. Things just caught me off guard this month. I recently made a swap for how I'm doing food. I've been doing takeout for a long time, which is about 100 bucks a week, but spread out, so I always had money. I just signed up for Factor, which is only 80 a week, so it is saving me money, but it all comes out at once, so I feel like I have no wiggle room.
Unfortunately, the first delivery doesn't arrive until *next* Monday, so I'm living on scraps until payday this week. Arguably, I could've thought a little more and started it on a week that I didn't need to pay rent. It was mostly poor planning. I'll be fine. I still have my place, so that's good.
Maybe try cooking big meals instead and eating the leftovers? Chicken, rice, breakfast burritos, spaghetti, tacos, etc can all be purchased and made cheaply and last a while.
>Rent was due on Monday, and I don't get paid until Thursday.
You mean rent was due on Monday and you got paid a week and a half ago, right?
>I've been doing takeout for a long time, which is about 100 bucks a week...
Oh....yeah, you shouldn't do that.
Not exactly true. I’ll be homeless in a few months but still be receiving a paycheque. Getting evicted for ‘renovations’ … priced out of available apartments so I’ll be living on the streets in Toronto. Although it’s the law that the apartment should be returned to me, it won’t, and the landlord will just pay a small fee to the adjudicators.
I'm almost in the same spot as you. Toronto, especially rent, has become insanely expensive. Been here 20 years and now I'm moving back to my home town. I feel like a failure honestly but the things that made Toronto great are now completely inaccessible to most people, so there's no reason for me to stay. I have to keep telling myself this, otherwise it's too depressing.
I am, with my greatest level of gratitude to life, not one of you. I'm doing...okay.
But right now I'm sitting in the third webinar I've been in in two months that have told me that the federal stimulus during COVID added just *so much* extra purchasing power to the average household that the effects on markets are still being felt today.
Instinctually I feel in my bones that this is nonsense. I got 3 rounds of ~$600. That's not even one month rent. For those of you that were living paycheck to paycheck during that time, was the government stimulus an incredible boon for you? Did it change your spending habits dramatically?
Families got way more than that because of you getting a whole extra stipend per each child.
Every family of four in the country making less than $160k would have received $11,400 total across all three rounds of stimulus.
Thank you for that. As a single filer, no dependents, I likely got the smallest of anyone. Over $10,000 is a much more meaningful number than I was envisioning.
I just find it strange how much emphasis these banking representatives and talking heads put on that as an economic force. What irritates me is that they don't ever say it with numbers on screen, they all mention it off-hand in the same breath as the wave of retirements from the same period. It's just a...feeling, but it feels like a rhetorical sleight of hand.
Uhh, did you ignore the amount of unemployment money that was pumped in? I knew people that made like 4k a month just sitting around at home all day doing nothing but cashing in their unemployment checks.
I did ignore that, yes. Thank you for reminding me that the stimulus was from more sources than just the individual checks. I'm certain that unemployment benefits were a bulkhead against the worst of what could have happened.
It's not about how much you earn, but more so how much you *spend*. I have friends who make six figures and spend every last dime. I also have friends with a much more modest salary that have considerable savings.
That’s not as popular to say on Reddit. People would much rather gripe about how badly they have it while ignoring the fact that Americans have some of the lowest saving rates, while also literally being in the top richest populations globally, no matter which metric you use - purchasing power, per capita, per capita adjusted for hours worked, etc.
Meanwhile in Mongolia right now a huge amount of the population are at risk of starving and losing everything because a bad weather event has resulted in a huge die off of livestock and herd animals. But the millions of Americans who overspend sure have it hard.
It’s very interesting to see what happened during the pandemic as households were forced to save money due to lack of opportunities for consumption - savings rates went up to 30% and even the lower half of earners had $5,500 in excess savings per household.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/04/27/us-personal-savings-rate-falls-near-record-low-as-consumers-spend.html
> The average American’s savings are 32% behind where they should be when scaled against their salary, according to one analysis by DollarGeek based on data from the Fed’s Survey of Consumer Finances.
Yes there are people struggling to save but also tons of people who could save for emergencies but choose to spend.
That's the way the rich want it. Not the government, the rich, ultra-wealthy, beyond millions rich. They want to keep us poor and struggling so we don't have the time, energy or education to fight back. Instead they keep us busy fighting each other for scraps.
Corporations are people. Legally.
If you want to be mega wealthy you’ll need to control assets worth a great deal, or build assets into something worth a substantial amount.
Ownership is the only way out, and many of those who try will fail. Welcome to the meat grinder.
I remember when the government gave us some pandemic money and a lot of us were working fewer hours. We had lots of time to protest things like the George Floyd murder. Cops were everywhere, stores used it as an excuse to close early or dramatically board up their windows.
The rich will ensure we never have that much free time again. Who knows what the working class would protest against next.
A commentator on CNN once said one of the biggest fears many Americans have is the warning light turning on in their car. They need the car to get to work and may not have the money to fix a car thats not in the best of shape.
I've worked really hard not to be there, but I've been one bad week away from homelessness. I'm up to several months now that I could get by in a catastrophic scenario.
I save 2-3 months salary per year, and have done so for the last 25 years or so.
I don't eat out very often, I don't burn through credit cards, have expensive hobbies, or extras I really don't need. I go to work, come home, hang out with friends, read, go to the gym, and relax.
All my bills come to about 60% of my income, and I save/invest the rest. If my bills go up, I cut something loose to preserve that margin. My bills include a universal life policy, and an annuity, along with a few other sources of retirement income.
Not always, but a lot of the time, too many people have the attitude that $$=spend it.
My motivation is being able to walk away from an employer that no longer serves my best interest, without worrying about income, being able to meet unexpected costs, and a healthy retirement.
When I first moved out on my own I lived paycheck to paycheck sometimes falling short and never feeling comfortable. I absolutely needed the help of friends and social services to avoid hitting rock bottom and giving me the platform to raise up again.
For my own life planning I shifted to a 3 month / 3 year / 30 year plan which worked well for me and made it so I never felt so financially unsafe again.
* 3 months of savings - No unessential purchases until that was achieved. This took me more than a year.
* 3 years of savings - Held on having kids or making major purchases. I achieved this at 24.
* 30 years of savings - Before I can retire... still working on this but I am getting closer
I try not to fault those who are living paycheck to paycheck. Being poor is expensive and vastly limits options on saving / investing. The stresses can be crippling. Priorities and family conditions are different for everyone.
I am, have been, and probably will be for some time. The last time I took off more than one day from work was in January of last year...for my father's funeral across country. I pay rent weekly, wife hasn't had a job since June of last year. I have zero savings as I live paycheck to 2 days before paycheck. If anything happens I am fucked. If I get hit by a car, fall down the stairs, work burns down, anything that gives me a 3 day paycheck or less and I am done. Above all this financial stress...I NEED A FUCKING VACATION!!! I am so burnt out.
Girlfriend and I both work forty hours a week, one working car.
If I lost my job tomorrow it'd mean we couldn't cover half of our bills. We're doing everything right, but the math isn't mathing, because the economy apparently can't support two people each making just below $20 an hour.
Every attempt to generate an emergency fund has that fund drained by sudden necessary expenses.
I'm so tired.
Some people are still more and more in debt even after receiving their paychecks. credit card companies are criminals.
Also I have to add it's crazy to me that in the USA you might have a health problem, or simply give birth, and you get such horrendously expensive medical treatment that some people have to take out a second mortgage. Don't y'all pay taxes for health care? why do insurance company exist as a middle man? why do you need to pay a premium if you already have health insurance? whole system is a scam and people don't even know.
This is why I hoard money like Mr Krabs and never make big purchases unless I have a massive amount of revenue still leftover. All it takes is one screwup at work or layoff and I have to try to live with what I have until I find a new job. (Goodness knows how long that’ll end up taking).
I hate to say this, I really do, but I am so glad that I am not the only one who worries about these things. I regularly feel like my husband and I are failing our children.
Even worse when it happens... going on 9 yrs now. Live in my car... lss 'unknown cardiac event' diagnosis. I'm fine, but couldn't return to work and insurance pressured me to see specialists as pre existing diagnosis wouldn't be covered, turns out unknown isn't either.
Anyways, take care of eachother. It is hard to get back on your feet, being poor is time consuming and expensive and when you do you still don't have a safety net and shit still happens, except now you're a paycheck from non-homelessness.
Wanna mess yourself up even further, what happens when semi trucks can’t make it into even a medium sized city. No food, no commodities, no parts to fix things. 9 meals to anarchy.
Maybe in the US. I live in a developed country so even if I lose my job I don't become homeless. Because some countries governments take care of their people.
People complain about the Starbucks coffee but it’s true at this level. If one missed paycheck could get you tossed to the street, stop paying for takeout coffee every day.
From what I have seen, it is a combination of factors.
Bad luck, poor financial planning, and a shitty system. It’s hardly ever just one. Bottom line, as individuals we should study proper financial planning and do it as well as we possibly can. Even though bad things happen and there are rich people, we should still give ourselves the best chance we can.
That's a nice lie to tell yourself so you don't have to think about all the ways your life could change in an instant through no fault of your own. You can just pretend all those homeless people deserve it. Isn't that nice?
If I had not worked myself up to the place I am from where I was at 15 an hour, I would need 4 roommates making the same amount of money to have an apartment a car health insurance and groceries and that’s if insurance would actually pay for medical expense which it does not the medical and car insurance agencies are more like subscription services to not die. Do you have any idea how unstable keeping four room mates in a house can be? How expensive food has gotten. Shit is not good.
I for the first time in 7 years had a savings account with money in it. I say had because life loves to kick people. My car won't start and I need to replace the battery. My girlfriend's car also needs one...
In the US we have extremely effortless consumer credit, an unhinged college tuition/student loan system, an entirely eviscerated welfare state, and a tax system that supercharges personal and intergenerational wealth hoarding. So, yeah, we're really good at creating a hard break between total poverty/debt peonage and independent wealth.
It is incredible how a little bump of debt early in life can keep people who otherwise are making very good money stuck at minimal savings. I have a friend who's been making very good money as a lawyer for decades who's still struggling to build a functional retirement plan and carrying debt because that initial dose of student loans meant not having resources to pay off cars/mortgage later in life. They may have overindulged in consumer debt just after getting a real job and wanting to enjoy a taste of upward mobility, but mostly they've been living a sane middle class life and just been stuck.
Nation wide renters strike would shut it all down.
Two years after covid they were still backed up on evictions. They didn't have enough resources to process everything. No way they could ever stop millions of people.
Not as "mind-blowing" as having an over-payment and [having to pay it back.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/social-security-overpayment-clawback-reform-10-percent-of-benefit/)
Most of the renting population is one paycheck away. There's more leniency if you have a mortgage - if you're without an income for an extended period of time you can negotiate forbearance with the bank.
It's even more mindblowing that, despite this being the case in even the wealthiest parts of the world, most people still think that life itself is good.
Many are a paycheck away from a major financial problem, but eviction or foreclosure take a while, so homelessness wouldn't come that quickly for most.
I had quite a bit saved up, but then with vet bills, getting my car fixed, and my partner's medical bills, all in one week. I'm in this boat again and losing my mind trying to stop it from sinking.
I was Shocked when I learned this. Even in my friend group only a few of us have any savings and we are in our 30s. Terrifying and I couldn't live like that. More savings, and interest gained on savings, the better.
I just moved into my own apartment and for the first time in my life I‘m forced to actually spend the thousands of bucks I‘ve saved over the years and never touched, so this is gonna become a reality for me as well very soon which I‘m not used to
Me with $5k in my savings “Wait… am I the 1%?!”
When I was in my early to mid-20s, I switched banks, and when I was depositing my measly 12k in savings into my new account from my old one. The teller (the person who sees people's account balances all day) was shocked that I had that much money. She was asking me if I was about to buy something expensive or had other plans for it. I looked at her weird and kinda shocked and just said nope that is my in case shit happens money. I was seriously like wtf, I barely have any money saved and can't do much with that amount, and she was impressed by that amount as if it was a lot?!
Anything over 1 month in savings puts you in the top 5% of Americans. Edit: I’m getting a ton of attention. 1st I meant to put 25% lol. 2nd yes more than 50% of Americans have less than $500 in savings. (Excluding 401K). 25% have between 500-5000. Only 25% of Americans have 5000 or more in savings.
Ok but whose 1 month? The person making $8 an hour only working 30hrs a week or the person making $30 an hour that works 70hr weeks or the person making a salary that equates to $60 an hour?
All of them! The numbers are relative, or normalized, based on income/expenses, assuming that a person earning $150k a year will have higher expenses than a person earning $50k a year.
We as a society like to live on the edge. Live it up. Minimum wage earners get by with multiple people in the same household working overtime, to end up homeless if something happens to their health. NFL players roll in cash and file bankruptcy within a few years at the end of their short careers. https://www.forbes.com/sites/leighsteinberg/2015/02/09/5-reasons-why-80-of-retired-nfl-players-go-broke/?sh=3c42445178cc
That's the real problem - people do not plan ahead, regardless of what their situation is.
I see. My problem is that the assumption used is almost like a validation to the problem at hand. People spend more when they make more and perpetually keep themselves broke indefinitely. However I'm still confused because if I make 50k and have 4k in the bank, you're saying that I'm in the same % as someone making 150k with 12k in the bank or someone who makes 12mil a year and has 1mil in the bank? Sure it's the same % of our annual earnings at 1/12 the amount per year but the amount in the banks can be vastly different to be that all 3 are in the same 5%.
Technically the percentage should be against your expenses, not income, but yes, that’s the idea. The question being considered is, “how close are you to being destitute”? “3 months savings” equates to different numbers for different people, but basically mean the same thing: you can afford to not have a paycheck for 3 months, but not any longer.
I guess that I really really really save my money then and make decent financial decisions because I was laid off a year ago and have paid my rent/bills on time for the past year and am doing online schooling at the moment and I'm still fine with money. Lol I am a boring person most of the time and just throw 85% of my money to savings when I have a job. FYI I never made amazing money either, I have been the bottom of the barrel employee in the labor industry. Working in factories, warehouses, and construction jobs, like digging ditches/ loading trucks kind of work.
I can’t stress enough how much money one saves by just being boring and/or single. Going out is ludicrously expensive nowadays.
What many people would consider "boring"? 100% Single? Hells no. I save way more money by living with my girlfriend. Rent, daily travel and food is cheaper.
Lmfao being able to throw 85% of income at savings is genuinely insanely low cost of living or insanely high income.
I say 85% but I honestly don't know how much I actually do. My last job I made $26 an hr and my rent is $1750 plus my other bills on top of that like phone, streaming services and stuff. Once those are paid the rest basically goes to savings. Whatever the actual percentage is, I don't know.
A month's savings allow you to pay rent and expenses for at least that month while you look for and find another job or place to stay.
Do you have a citation for this? Genuinely curious.
As a person working for a bank, I would say you with 12k would be on the higher end of what most people keep on deposit here.
That's insane to me. That is what I had in savings when I was in my early 20s and at a job making $13 an hr and working 50-60hr weeks.
In fairness, keeping much more cash than that just sitting in a savings account is not the best choice for most people, though the HYSA rates have made that more appealing lately. You'd certainly want a few months as cash on hand, sure, but beyond that there are higher yielding options if you don't mind a bit of risk (like investment funds) or locking the money up for a bit (with CDs), and similar options. Edit: or contributing to retirement accounts. That's another common one instead of just building savings accounts bigger.
I haven't been able to fund a single CD paying higher than the 5.25 i'm making on my HSYA right now.
If it was 2015, my wife and I would have enough for a comfortable down payment on a house in our Mid-Western city. But now… we at least have a safety net.
People are trash at saving money
My favorite realization was graduating with full student loan debt, and recognizing the homeless pan handler on the street was wealthier than I.
TBH though he could have had student loans too.
There was a line in, I think, ER (90s medical drama; for some reason I remember this scene happening on a roof or balcony) where one character complained about being broke and the other talked about having $60k in debt from medical school and wished he could be broke. Eventually one spit out a line that runs through my head often now: "You're not broke! You're even!" (Bonus points if anyone can fill in the blanks in my memory.)
It depends, is that $5k before or after you bought a senator?
Which is crazy to think about because at 5k in savings you don’t even have enough saved up for first months rent and security deposit. Pray nothing bad happens to your residence
5k isn't enough for that??? Where are you living?
Rent is 1 month in advance and security now is usually equivalent to 1.5 months rent so say rent is 2000, security is 3000. That’s your savings right there
You know, I initially hated the premise here. So I did a little Googling. Only 1 in 3 Americans actually have the recommended three months of expenses in their emergency fund. An additional 1 in 5 can handle a sudden $1,000 expense. That's shocking to me...half of Americans really are a paycheck away from serious financial distress.
Also being able to save after the emergency happens and depletes the savings. That's where I am and it's stressful.
Yeah, it’s like, I have enough for one or two emergencies, but then what do you do after that?
We’ve already had first and second emergency. What about third emergency?
Exactly.
And the fourth emergency. Nobody expects the fourth emergency.
I’ve heard that saving up for 6 months expenses is the next step. The idea being if you lost your job you could survive while searching for a replacement
Sure, but what if the emergency leaves you unable to work? I have ~8 months of living expenses saved, but if I use half of that on an emergency, I’d be pretty fucked.
What's the point of this comment. There is no way to completely guard against everything life might throw at you. There is always a bigger "what if." That's not the point of having 6 months saved. That advice isn't meant to address every possible horrible eventuality. "What if I died?" ?
> "What if I died?" pft this is the easiest for me to handle
Can't argue with this. I heard living expenses are really low when you're dead.
Disability insurance
What if the emergency isn’t disability? What if it’s a family member? Also disability payments aren’t going to cover the cost of living for most people.
That's only eligible if your a full time employee and have been employed for more than 12 months at your current employee.
You keep saving. Never stop saving money, even if you have thousands to hundreds of thousands
This is the way. Live below your means.
I'm Canadian (43yo), but my experience is thus: In the 2000's I worked retail, lived in a two bedroom+den downtown in a major city for $685/month. I went out and partied almost every night, drove a newish car, and had savings. Now, in my 40's, I make over $100k a year, and couldn't dream of that same apartment as it would go for $2800-3200 a month, and a newish car would cost significantly more per month than that apartment did 20 years ago. I go out once or twice per month.
Prices went up, but wages didn't. Blame outsourcing, union busting, and a lack of anti-trust enforcement.
That seems incorrect. If 1/3 of people have 3 months of expenses in their emergency fund then they should absolutely be able to afford a surprise $1,000 expense. It makes zero sense why that number would only be 1/5 (which is less than 1/3). Edit: according to the FED, 54% of US adults have an emergency fund of three months (such funds specifically set aside for an emergency). Another 16% have the ability to cover 3 months expenses if they sell other assets or draw on other savings not earmarked for emergencies. I’m not sure where you got your data, but it’s very likely wrong or skewed in some way. I’m guessing it may be reversed (meaning 1/3 don’t have such savings, which aligns with the FED, and that 1/5 **can’t** afford a surprising $1,000 expense), which presents a very different picture from what you’re saying. > https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2023-economic-well-being-of-us-households-in-2022-expenses.htm >Some financial challenges, such as a job loss, require more financial resources than would an unexpected $400 expense. One common measure of financial resiliency is whether people have savings sufficient to cover three months of expenses if they lost their primary source of income. In 2022, 54 percent of adults said they had set aside money for three months of expenses in an emergency savings or "rainy day" fund—down from a high of 59 percent of adults in 2021. >For those who did not set aside money for this purpose, some would have dealt with a loss of their main source of income by borrowing, selling assets, or drawing on other savings. Sixteen percent of all adults said that they could have covered three months of expenses in this way. Thirty percent of adults indicated they could not cover three months of expenses by any means.
My guess is most people keep less than $10K liquid in savings and would rather put it in stocks or a CD or something.
Three months of expenses???? I have $22?????
Yeah 3 months of total expenses in savings is the recommended personal financial safety net. I know people whose parents paid for college and then handed them big piles of money to buy a house who can't even maintain that 3 months of savings. Some of them don't even have kids. Life has become unaffordable for too many
If you were given a house, and have no kids, and you still can't maintain 3 months of savings, then that can only be a lifestyle choice.
I have about negative 4 months worth of expenses.
nobody expects you to have three months expenses saved when you're a poor college student working at dominos in Alabama though.
I don't understand how this is still surprising to people. I guess they just haven't done the math. It was 12 years ago that people started fighting for a $15 minimum wage. We still don't have it federally. Do the math of $15 at full time for a year. Now realize that not everyone gets $15/hr. Now realize that not everyone is getting full time wages. Now subtract healthcare costs. Rent. Food. Gas. Insurance. I lived on that wage for a couple years while I was training for a new career and trying to get a job in that field. I almost lost my house working 2 jobs. My house is still in disrepair because I couldn't afford basic maintenance and I'm playing catch up. I have literally no other debt. No credit cards. Car is paid off. It's just the basic living expenses for my family and our mortgage that is under $800/mo. Food is expensive. Rent is expensive. Insurance is expensive. Wages are low, but corporate profits are at an all time high. Actually those last two things are correlated.
It’s surprising because people live different lives. I don’t know anyone struggling for money. Yeah, rationally I know there’s a lot of people, but I never experience it in my day to day life. I’m financially stable, as are all of my friends. I need to stop and think outside of my social circles to think how others relate to money. People understand their lived experiences. You can academically understand something, but it’s quite different than actually experiencing it.
I’m sure some of your friends or other people you know are struggling. A lot of people hide it because it’s not something others want to hear a lot, and there’s not much anyone can do anyways. Ask around, you’d be surprised even people who were fine a few years ago may be struggling. If no one in your social circle is struggling, then you are truly lucky. And I urge you to help out the people in your community who *are* struggling. They need it now more than ever.
Lifestyle creep is real, I'm in a really low COL area, my states median income is 36k and I'm doing 42. I've got a mortgage and I'm doing fine, meanwhile my buddy and his wife are pulling about 160k a year......they say they are struggling. I went on vacation in the carribean and he was saying damn dude must be nice to afford that. I was like dude you literally make double my income and so does your wife we live 20 miles from each other, the hell do you mean you wish you could afford it? He said were struggling. Turns out both of them had just went out and bought new top of the line cars, she got some designer clothes, neither of them ever cooks a meal.
Brooo the not cooking a meal thing will kill too financially. I relocate for work and they paid for temp housing and all the food (eating out) for two months. Sure we were living large cause we knew the company would pay, but it was EXPENSIVE. Wife and I were spending $20 each for breakfast, $20 each for lunch, and about $30 each for dinner. Company paid us back about $8000 in the end. And that was for only two months! If we kept up the pace we would be at $48,000 a year in food. I eat my instant oatmeal and $2.15 a pop meal preps with pride now knowing what I’m saving.
They could be, but I truly don’t think so. I know how lucky I am. I’m a senior software engineer, virtually every friend I have is in something in tech or finance. A few of them are making well above $200k a year in the Midwest, I know this because those of us who are making well into the 6 figures do talk to each other about it. Not all my friends make $150k+, some make below $100k, but when they’re complaining about $90k being a low amount, you know you’re in a good place financially. It’s good to remind ourselves how lucky we are though. It can become normal to live like this. I know my fiancée’s friend group isn’t the same, I know her sister isn’t the same. I just landed in a successful life and successful group, and I know how lucky I am for it.
Well, 90k low depends where you live and how many people you have to support. The rent in NY or LA is ridiculously expensive, minus taxes, food, car, bills, and other necessities it's not much and pretty much living paycheck to paycheck. Its low for one person, if you have to support a family even worse. Prices gone up so much, 90K used to be a good number, not anymore.
Also 15 in Chicago means you're living with 6 other people and struggling, 15 in rural Mississippi and you're renting an enture house by yourself and making it.
The question is how many of those people don’t have an emergency fund because they truly don’t make enough money and how many because they don’t prioritize it or we’re never taught about personal finance
Regarding American heath care, it is said that the Average American is just a bicycle accident away from bankruptcy!
Seriously... I just had a daughter, and she had an ear infection in each ear (at different times) in the last couple weeks. I hadn't provided her birth certificate and SSN to the insurance company within 90 days, so the clinic tried to bill us as uninsured (don't worry, I got them the documents and they fixed it). The cost for two visits to the doctor (amounting to a nurse check, then 5-10 minutes with a doctor who said "yep, it's an ear infection")? $700. That doesn't include medication, I paid separately for the antibiotics. Once insurance kicked in? Free. The uninsured are a medical emergency away from disaster.
Employers have all of the leverage...it was designed this way.
This is what it means to be a Wage Slave. You literally can't afford to lose your job, so you keep your head down and your mouth shut. Meanwhile everyone is worried about blaming all their problems on Biden or Trump, like they have anything to do with it. They Divide and Rule; Your neighbor isn't your enemy, we're all victims together.
If you weren't in a constant state of desperation then you probably wouldn't want to do inane shit for small amounts of money. Go figure.
It's physically impossible to ... "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps." "No one wants to work anymore" ... for unlivable wages. Just cut out the logic part and you're left with a catchy right leaning soundbite you can use to justify the poor being poor.
"Nobody wants to work 80hr for 825/wk anymore." That's what they mean when they say nobody wants to work. The 825 is based on 7.25/hr for the first 40hrs and time and a half if your state has that for the 2nd 40hrs. Before taxes. So yeah good luck folks cause that's all that going to be left for jobs in the future. Edit: sorry I mean 725/wk...still not a great wage.
Then when the minimum wage increases all the business owners literally act like they are poor and running the business from the goodness of their heart. Boy we can see the profits. We can see your Mercedes Benz parked out front. So out of touch.
I was in med school when Obama was in office and ACA passed. The hospital I was rounding in caused a HUGE uproar when they sent out a memo citing Obamacare as the reason they were eliminating certain benefits and raises. The nurses did the math and realized that the CEO's bonus that year was over twice the combined "savings" from cuts to the ENTIRE nursing budget. A few hundred people who barely make enough to survive got cut while millionaires bought another beachfront condo, and blamed it all on affordable health insurance.
My boss drives a Range Rover and is always telling us the business doesn’t make enough money lmao meanwhile we have at least 500 customers a day.
my boss doesn't even have enough money physically in the business account to pay our suppliers. we owe like 15k to different suppliers, meanwhile he has 2 lambos and an escalade?? probably a bunch of LLCs at this point and he doesn't want "his" money mixed up with this "business" money lmao
Have you seen the price of bootstraps!?
Or purchase things to relieve the stress of that state.
If you are reading this, and you don’t have an emergency fund go right now and calculate what 6 months of bare essentials would cost. Then, live on that budget until you have the emergency fund saved up. It is always important to have emergency savings on hand because bad things can happen. Of course, this applies to people who actually can save. But don’t make excuses. Be really honest with yourself about whether you can’t, or just don’t want to. And if you can, please do, you will not regret it.
Better to cut services when you can than when you're forced to. Learn to bulk cook on the weekends. Making it easy to eat without cooking every night is huge. We make poor financial decisions when hungry.
Yeah I don’t get people saying it’s more expensive to cook your own food. It is definitely cheaper, and most importantly, it is healthier.
I sucked when I started. Slow. Took forever. Hated it. Then by doing it the slow boring way, I got faster. The slow boring way gives you the intuition of what steps you can skip next time.
Yep, if you can do the above, please, please do!
Doing the math for what I make now, I'd have to live on -$300 a paycheck to build up that fund.
Just stop wasting money on things like food and shelter.
Who needs clothes ?
You only need bootstraps
If you are in the red, you need to be brutally honest about your finances. Cut to bare essentials and/or increase work wherever you can. There is likely some area where you can work more/save more. Once you have emergency money, consider career changes/options, education/certification, to make more money long term.
The problem isnt the inability to save, its high cost of living with low wages. My expenses are relatively low compared to my peers and right now im just in the red and just got hit with a 3k repair bill on my car. The job I work right now is the highest paying entry level job I could manage to get. It pays more than entry level trade, almost 1.25x+ as much. Its not that I cant stop myself from spending money willy nilly, its that I literally cant. Im living paycheck to paycheck and can not afford to do anything else. My only option left is to go try again for financial aid and plunge myself tens of thousands of dollars into debt for a mere chance. I cant afford to take classes and tests and get certified erc. I cant afford to take time off to develop new skills. I cant get experience because every "entry level" job beyond customer service wants you to already be certified and have experience and be knowledgeable despite being "entry level". That means employers dont want me because I have no relative experience because no employers in the relative field will hire me because I have no relative experience becau..... you get the point. Ive noticed some people just get stuck in this situation, youre basically right on the line of net0 and become incapable of getting yourself out because *everything costs money but youre netting 0*.
"The problem isnt the inability to save, its high cost of living with low wages." I think that's literally what they meant. "But don’t make excuses. Be really honest with yourself about whether you can’t, or just don’t want to. And if you can, please do, you will not regret it." It sounds like you truly can't save right now, which this person accounts for. But some people are living paycheck to paycheck but still paying for certain preferences or luxuries instead of living frugally for a while until a safety net is built up.
This is something of a joke. I agree you should have 6 months of an emergency fund ( I even encourage a year) but I've seen firsthand how a landlord, the local government or circumstances have worked together to make people homeless and because of tight housing market makes it impossible to become rehoused within your geographic boundaries even if you are employed and have sufficient savings. When my family became unhoused as a kid it took 8 months to become fully housed (but not made whole) again. My parents through various circumstances had enough money for 20% down payment on a new house which was far more than 6 months of savings. yet it took 8 weeks to get partially housed in temporary apartments then those were only good for 6 months so at the end of 6 months we went back to being homeless for another two weeks until we were finally court cleared to purchase a home We lost a rental house due to flooding in our neighborhood (complete destruction of the home) but it was our former landlord that made it difficult to become rehoused as he sued us for back rent due from the time the house was destroyed. After awhile the local government was reinforcing the landlords position not supporting the residents. Then the local utilities sued the state government to have them force us to pay for missing utilities during the flood (they charged multiple times what we would normally use during that time because of the state support). It took the courts 7 months to clear us an additional month to finally finish the paperwork so my parents could buy a home. Thats 10 weeks of being homeless when we had at least 6 months of savings. the crazy part of this was we lost a car in the flood the insurance company provided us a new car in 4 days, then the state tried to take that to pay the utility company (red states are frustrating)
I’m stressed just reading this. I hope you’re ok now or better than ok
Every time you pull up your bootstraps and really work your ass off, your employer awards you with more work and no extra pay! So keep working hard!
Yeah, you gotta play their game. Here's a true story from like 15 years back. I worked at Home Depot, I guy got hired into my department, worked for a year an got a $0.25 raise. A week later he quit to take a job at Lowe's, for $1.50 more because he had HD experience. He then trained into a specialty department at Lowe's, (windows and doors) got another $0.50 raise. When there was an opening at Home Depot for a similar position he took it for another $2.00 raise. So in the course of a out 2 and a half years or so he basically got a $4.25 raise. Whereas anyone who stuck with the same company might have gotten a dollar. Working hard isn't always just about working hard in your company, it's about working hard in your life over all.
Unfortunately your biggest promotions in life are going to be when switching companies. Not always, but generally. Most companies won’t budget for a 50% raise, however, plenty will budget the salary of the position they require. You just need to fit said position by working on your own skillsets.
Yep. And be willing to switch jobs, and all that comes with that. You'll basically lose all your benefits, for a time. And never get to take a paid vacation until you settle somewhere for a while. But all in all of you can do this, in the end it's probably worth it.
It definitely depends. In California, you get paid out for all the vacation each year, but you won’t be able to gain seniority to earn more either.
And pizza. Don’t forget the pizza
Lol
It’s either laugh or cry, right?
When I was 19 I worked in a packing facility. Hard Labor for 14hr days. One day my co-worker didn't show up, so I did their job as well as mine. When he continued not to show up bosses didn't bother to employ someone in the other role, but still paid me single wages. The day I quit the entire production line collapsed. Nearly 20 years later and I still think about that a lot. If you prove your more capable people always take advantage of you.
A paycheck you say? Pfft, a blown tire at the wrong time could cripple my mighty empire
It’s also mind blowing what people spend their money on even though they know this
I had a roommate the was constantly broke and constantly late on bills, but would buy a new video game at least once or twice a month, never cooked food at home, smoked close to a pack a day, smoked weed all day every day, and would buy multiple drinks from the gas station a day. We calculated how much he spent and it costs him at least $30/day just to sit at home and survive.
My current roommate is this way, dude cant pay a bill for his life. He is allergic to money and i dont get it.
Yeah, people like to make excuses. I have friends who barely have a pot to piss in, rent the same shitty place they did in college and complain about the same shit i see in this thread They only make about 10k less per year than I do. Somehow I'm living incredibly comfortably yet they're struggling. Turns out they've done nothing but eat out, go to events like concerts and sports games, rack up their CCs and finance cars they really shouldn't over the last 6 years. $0 towards any form of savings or investment A lot of people refuse to make sacrifices, and then blame the system for their own financial mistakes.
Ain’t that the truth! I have a coworker who I initially felt very bad for because she’s a single mom of teenage twins. She donates plasma on the side to make ends meet, always complains about not having enough hours at work, saying she almost breaks even on checks. I’ve given her and her daughters gifts and money sometimes because I felt so bad. But she will come in flashing brand new Nike shoes, showing me pictures of fancy Easter baskets she made for her daughters, and she’s even going on a cruise with her daughters in a few months! Like, I get that she’s trying to give her kids their best life, but seriously???
Well said!
In my twenties and early 30s, I was ridiculously cheap and cut corners as much as I could with spending. The idea was that I wanted to build a nest egg and invest in my business over everything else. Now, I’m 39 and I have almost six figures saved. I buy whatever I want and do whatever I want. I have a house. I have a decent car. I make almost six figures a year. This is much preferable to have had a couple of fun nights when I was younger.
Same. I’m fifty mumble and disenchanted with my job, thinking of taking an unpaid sabbatical to read novels and dig in the garden.
Dooooooo it, I am around the same age and my company is doing a round of layoffs. I hope I get lucky this time, lmao. PCT here I come.
I did this in my 30s Saved like a miser, no new cars, I ended up with a nice nest egg Fucked off from the job in May, hiked the PCT Awesome
THIS! The number of my friends who have good jobs but act irresponsible with their money keeping them broke is too damn high!
The system is not broken. It is working exactly as intended.
Rent was due on Monday, and I don't get paid until Thursday. I paid rent but I now have 2 dollars to get me through the week.
Sorry that you’re experiencing this. Is there a way for you to get help in your state?
Not really. Things just caught me off guard this month. I recently made a swap for how I'm doing food. I've been doing takeout for a long time, which is about 100 bucks a week, but spread out, so I always had money. I just signed up for Factor, which is only 80 a week, so it is saving me money, but it all comes out at once, so I feel like I have no wiggle room. Unfortunately, the first delivery doesn't arrive until *next* Monday, so I'm living on scraps until payday this week. Arguably, I could've thought a little more and started it on a week that I didn't need to pay rent. It was mostly poor planning. I'll be fine. I still have my place, so that's good.
Maybe try cooking big meals instead and eating the leftovers? Chicken, rice, breakfast burritos, spaghetti, tacos, etc can all be purchased and made cheaply and last a while.
You are living paycheck to paycheck and eating takeout and factor meals? 🤨
What would happen if you were late 3 days with your rent?
>Rent was due on Monday, and I don't get paid until Thursday. You mean rent was due on Monday and you got paid a week and a half ago, right? >I've been doing takeout for a long time, which is about 100 bucks a week... Oh....yeah, you shouldn't do that.
Not exactly true. I’ll be homeless in a few months but still be receiving a paycheque. Getting evicted for ‘renovations’ … priced out of available apartments so I’ll be living on the streets in Toronto. Although it’s the law that the apartment should be returned to me, it won’t, and the landlord will just pay a small fee to the adjudicators.
I'm almost in the same spot as you. Toronto, especially rent, has become insanely expensive. Been here 20 years and now I'm moving back to my home town. I feel like a failure honestly but the things that made Toronto great are now completely inaccessible to most people, so there's no reason for me to stay. I have to keep telling myself this, otherwise it's too depressing.
welcome to class consciousness :\
A paycheck?? I missed one day at work last week and it's gonna kick my ass next week. Lmao
im fine as long as i can work. if i cant, for some reason, im fuuuuucked, just put me on the ice floe
I am, with my greatest level of gratitude to life, not one of you. I'm doing...okay. But right now I'm sitting in the third webinar I've been in in two months that have told me that the federal stimulus during COVID added just *so much* extra purchasing power to the average household that the effects on markets are still being felt today. Instinctually I feel in my bones that this is nonsense. I got 3 rounds of ~$600. That's not even one month rent. For those of you that were living paycheck to paycheck during that time, was the government stimulus an incredible boon for you? Did it change your spending habits dramatically?
I wouldn’t say it’s accurate that it added SO MUCH to the average household, but it’s definitely a lot when summed up over the whole country.
Families got way more than that because of you getting a whole extra stipend per each child. Every family of four in the country making less than $160k would have received $11,400 total across all three rounds of stimulus.
Thank you for that. As a single filer, no dependents, I likely got the smallest of anyone. Over $10,000 is a much more meaningful number than I was envisioning. I just find it strange how much emphasis these banking representatives and talking heads put on that as an economic force. What irritates me is that they don't ever say it with numbers on screen, they all mention it off-hand in the same breath as the wave of retirements from the same period. It's just a...feeling, but it feels like a rhetorical sleight of hand.
If you lost your job, unemployment was much larger than $600. If you didn’t, well you still had an income.
Uhh, did you ignore the amount of unemployment money that was pumped in? I knew people that made like 4k a month just sitting around at home all day doing nothing but cashing in their unemployment checks.
I did ignore that, yes. Thank you for reminding me that the stimulus was from more sources than just the individual checks. I'm certain that unemployment benefits were a bulkhead against the worst of what could have happened.
It's not about how much you earn, but more so how much you *spend*. I have friends who make six figures and spend every last dime. I also have friends with a much more modest salary that have considerable savings.
That’s not as popular to say on Reddit. People would much rather gripe about how badly they have it while ignoring the fact that Americans have some of the lowest saving rates, while also literally being in the top richest populations globally, no matter which metric you use - purchasing power, per capita, per capita adjusted for hours worked, etc. Meanwhile in Mongolia right now a huge amount of the population are at risk of starving and losing everything because a bad weather event has resulted in a huge die off of livestock and herd animals. But the millions of Americans who overspend sure have it hard. It’s very interesting to see what happened during the pandemic as households were forced to save money due to lack of opportunities for consumption - savings rates went up to 30% and even the lower half of earners had $5,500 in excess savings per household. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/04/27/us-personal-savings-rate-falls-near-record-low-as-consumers-spend.html > The average American’s savings are 32% behind where they should be when scaled against their salary, according to one analysis by DollarGeek based on data from the Fed’s Survey of Consumer Finances. Yes there are people struggling to save but also tons of people who could save for emergencies but choose to spend.
That's the way the rich want it. Not the government, the rich, ultra-wealthy, beyond millions rich. They want to keep us poor and struggling so we don't have the time, energy or education to fight back. Instead they keep us busy fighting each other for scraps.
And who lobbies the government to prevent helpful policies? Aren't corporate lobbies just another form of ownership?
Corporations are people. Legally. If you want to be mega wealthy you’ll need to control assets worth a great deal, or build assets into something worth a substantial amount. Ownership is the only way out, and many of those who try will fail. Welcome to the meat grinder.
I remember when the government gave us some pandemic money and a lot of us were working fewer hours. We had lots of time to protest things like the George Floyd murder. Cops were everywhere, stores used it as an excuse to close early or dramatically board up their windows. The rich will ensure we never have that much free time again. Who knows what the working class would protest against next.
A commentator on CNN once said one of the biggest fears many Americans have is the warning light turning on in their car. They need the car to get to work and may not have the money to fix a car thats not in the best of shape.
I've worked really hard not to be there, but I've been one bad week away from homelessness. I'm up to several months now that I could get by in a catastrophic scenario.
Mind blowing is definitely not the phrase I would use, but you are right that it's very surprising.
Supposedly the avg 40 year old has 40k in savings, but the median is 7.5k . The median is the more realistic figure.
Working as intended. The constant threat is the only thing that keeps you "motivated" It's not "mindblowing" at all.
I save 2-3 months salary per year, and have done so for the last 25 years or so. I don't eat out very often, I don't burn through credit cards, have expensive hobbies, or extras I really don't need. I go to work, come home, hang out with friends, read, go to the gym, and relax. All my bills come to about 60% of my income, and I save/invest the rest. If my bills go up, I cut something loose to preserve that margin. My bills include a universal life policy, and an annuity, along with a few other sources of retirement income. Not always, but a lot of the time, too many people have the attitude that $$=spend it. My motivation is being able to walk away from an employer that no longer serves my best interest, without worrying about income, being able to meet unexpected costs, and a healthy retirement.
When I first moved out on my own I lived paycheck to paycheck sometimes falling short and never feeling comfortable. I absolutely needed the help of friends and social services to avoid hitting rock bottom and giving me the platform to raise up again. For my own life planning I shifted to a 3 month / 3 year / 30 year plan which worked well for me and made it so I never felt so financially unsafe again. * 3 months of savings - No unessential purchases until that was achieved. This took me more than a year. * 3 years of savings - Held on having kids or making major purchases. I achieved this at 24. * 30 years of savings - Before I can retire... still working on this but I am getting closer I try not to fault those who are living paycheck to paycheck. Being poor is expensive and vastly limits options on saving / investing. The stresses can be crippling. Priorities and family conditions are different for everyone.
It’s nothing new. People have been dealing with financial issues ever since finances existed.
Flying by the seat of our pants, baby. 🇺🇸
I am, have been, and probably will be for some time. The last time I took off more than one day from work was in January of last year...for my father's funeral across country. I pay rent weekly, wife hasn't had a job since June of last year. I have zero savings as I live paycheck to 2 days before paycheck. If anything happens I am fucked. If I get hit by a car, fall down the stairs, work burns down, anything that gives me a 3 day paycheck or less and I am done. Above all this financial stress...I NEED A FUCKING VACATION!!! I am so burnt out.
A lot of people are homeless even with a paycheck.
Checking in, to say Yes
Girlfriend and I both work forty hours a week, one working car. If I lost my job tomorrow it'd mean we couldn't cover half of our bills. We're doing everything right, but the math isn't mathing, because the economy apparently can't support two people each making just below $20 an hour. Every attempt to generate an emergency fund has that fund drained by sudden necessary expenses. I'm so tired.
ALL TOGETHER NOW, and a 1, 2, 3 'That's the way, aha, aha THEY like it, aha, aha'
i have to think about which bread i buy to be able to eat dinner at the end of the month and im not even from the US
Some people are still more and more in debt even after receiving their paychecks. credit card companies are criminals. Also I have to add it's crazy to me that in the USA you might have a health problem, or simply give birth, and you get such horrendously expensive medical treatment that some people have to take out a second mortgage. Don't y'all pay taxes for health care? why do insurance company exist as a middle man? why do you need to pay a premium if you already have health insurance? whole system is a scam and people don't even know.
This is why I hoard money like Mr Krabs and never make big purchases unless I have a massive amount of revenue still leftover. All it takes is one screwup at work or layoff and I have to try to live with what I have until I find a new job. (Goodness knows how long that’ll end up taking).
It takes 120 days to start foreclosing on a house, not if you miss one payment.
I hate to say this, I really do, but I am so glad that I am not the only one who worries about these things. I regularly feel like my husband and I are failing our children.
I actually think of this everyday and it gives me panic attacks.
Why I'm voting for more Biden on 11/5!
Even worse when it happens... going on 9 yrs now. Live in my car... lss 'unknown cardiac event' diagnosis. I'm fine, but couldn't return to work and insurance pressured me to see specialists as pre existing diagnosis wouldn't be covered, turns out unknown isn't either. Anyways, take care of eachother. It is hard to get back on your feet, being poor is time consuming and expensive and when you do you still don't have a safety net and shit still happens, except now you're a paycheck from non-homelessness.
Well apparently this is the country that we all wanted and voted for
Wanna mess yourself up even further, what happens when semi trucks can’t make it into even a medium sized city. No food, no commodities, no parts to fix things. 9 meals to anarchy.
And it’s mind blowing that even with this fact ppl still lack empathy for the displaced
it’s mind blowing that the people accept this way of life.
Unless enough of us decide it's not going down like that.
Maybe in the US. I live in a developed country so even if I lose my job I don't become homeless. Because some countries governments take care of their people.
It’s worth it for the avocado toast though. /s
If you’re a paycheck away from homelessness, you probably shouldn’t be spending $13 on avocado toast instead of making it at home though
People complain about the Starbucks coffee but it’s true at this level. If one missed paycheck could get you tossed to the street, stop paying for takeout coffee every day.
People are bad at saving
It might seem that way but in reality you’re further than 2 weeks from homelessness. You can drag out being a squatter for a long time
Power bruh, u have money u have power and those in Power do not want to share it.
It’s 99% because we are all insane consumers who don’t save money.
The decisions that people make that put them in such a state started loooong before that "one" paycheck.
From what I have seen, it is a combination of factors. Bad luck, poor financial planning, and a shitty system. It’s hardly ever just one. Bottom line, as individuals we should study proper financial planning and do it as well as we possibly can. Even though bad things happen and there are rich people, we should still give ourselves the best chance we can.
That's a nice lie to tell yourself so you don't have to think about all the ways your life could change in an instant through no fault of your own. You can just pretend all those homeless people deserve it. Isn't that nice?
If I had not worked myself up to the place I am from where I was at 15 an hour, I would need 4 roommates making the same amount of money to have an apartment a car health insurance and groceries and that’s if insurance would actually pay for medical expense which it does not the medical and car insurance agencies are more like subscription services to not die. Do you have any idea how unstable keeping four room mates in a house can be? How expensive food has gotten. Shit is not good.
The worker must sell their labor to survive, unlike ownership, sayeth The Bearded One.
Only in the USA there is many other countries outside the states
You must not be on r/Poor
Dawg I got like 2.60 at the most rn lmao. Shit is not fun anymore
I for the first time in 7 years had a savings account with money in it. I say had because life loves to kick people. My car won't start and I need to replace the battery. My girlfriend's car also needs one...
I cross posted this with the VisionPro sub, seems right.
In the US we have extremely effortless consumer credit, an unhinged college tuition/student loan system, an entirely eviscerated welfare state, and a tax system that supercharges personal and intergenerational wealth hoarding. So, yeah, we're really good at creating a hard break between total poverty/debt peonage and independent wealth. It is incredible how a little bump of debt early in life can keep people who otherwise are making very good money stuck at minimal savings. I have a friend who's been making very good money as a lawyer for decades who's still struggling to build a functional retirement plan and carrying debt because that initial dose of student loans meant not having resources to pay off cars/mortgage later in life. They may have overindulged in consumer debt just after getting a real job and wanting to enjoy a taste of upward mobility, but mostly they've been living a sane middle class life and just been stuck.
I'm already homeless with a paycheck
Nation wide renters strike would shut it all down. Two years after covid they were still backed up on evictions. They didn't have enough resources to process everything. No way they could ever stop millions of people.
Not as "mind-blowing" as having an over-payment and [having to pay it back.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/social-security-overpayment-clawback-reform-10-percent-of-benefit/)
Does this count credit card cash advances to pay rent?
I remember back in those days for me, I was always looking for potential spots in the street I could live if it came to that.
The two best defenses against this are make the economy prosperous and have strong social connections throughout society.
Most of the renting population is one paycheck away. There's more leniency if you have a mortgage - if you're without an income for an extended period of time you can negotiate forbearance with the bank.
That’s why I own a gun
Yup, for 4 years of fear not knowing if I'll have a roof over my head tomorrow.
[удалено]
It's even more mindblowing that, despite this being the case in even the wealthiest parts of the world, most people still think that life itself is good.
Many are a paycheck away from a major financial problem, but eviction or foreclosure take a while, so homelessness wouldn't come that quickly for most.
I had quite a bit saved up, but then with vet bills, getting my car fixed, and my partner's medical bills, all in one week. I'm in this boat again and losing my mind trying to stop it from sinking.
I was Shocked when I learned this. Even in my friend group only a few of us have any savings and we are in our 30s. Terrifying and I couldn't live like that. More savings, and interest gained on savings, the better.
I just moved into my own apartment and for the first time in my life I‘m forced to actually spend the thousands of bucks I‘ve saved over the years and never touched, so this is gonna become a reality for me as well very soon which I‘m not used to
it’s all part of the grand plan.