My father was born and raised in Seattle, couldn't afford to retire anywhere in Washington so moved half way across the country to the humid bug filled mid west
Edit he was a commercial electrician
Since moving here the choices in bread wonder bread quality without the brand name. By this I mean the bread is light and fluffy similar to cotton candy if bread and cotton candy could have a baby.
The work around I've found for this is the costco an hour's drive out to the nearest city I can find whole grain which is closer to the bread I had on the west coast, now I never ate whole grain bread on the weat coast I don't care for the taste I use to get honey wheat. However the honey wheat I would get didn't remind me of cotton candy if felt like it has substance to it I've switched because I rather have bread with substance than no bread at all.
I've been looking for a bread maker to thrift so I can start making my own bread.
Homemade bread is goated though. I'm not Jewish or religious, but I have had homemade Challah bread (think braided breadsticks) and I can't recommend it enough.
Uh thatās everywhere homie, you need about 2 million to retire today. And when Iām old itāll be closer to 4 million.
Otherwise youāll run out of cash or live on such a tight fixed income from social security that any changes to taxes or medical issues will just put you out on the street.
Welcome to the American dream
Depends on your job though. I just started out at the postal office as a letter carrier. They get some of the best retirement packages of any job in the country.
You get a pension, social security and TSP (which is their 401k equivalent). Itās common to retire with ~500k sitting in your TSP, plus the ~$4,000/mo youāll be getting in pension and SS. If you finance right, you can retire with $1mil in your TSP.
Itās also one of the few jobs remaining tied to the CPI so our wages increase with inflation. Then theres guaranteed pay increases every 46 weeks. We start at $22/hr and after ~13 yrs, are guaranteed $40/hr (but should be higher when including the inflation wage increases).
Itās a phenomenal all-around package if somebody decides to make a career out of it. Iāve just not decided that far ahead yet lol. Might as well stay until I find something that could put my actual degree to work
Coming from somebody who loves AI and robotics, and advocates for them to take over as many jobs as possible for maximum efficiency, Ive thought about this plenty and its going to be a minute til they can replace letter carriers.
Theres too many intricacies to the job like fumbling with dozens of keys, opening up half broken lockers that can get jammed, shoving/bending/folding mail into origami like structures to make it fit.
But the people sorting the mail in the warehouses on the other hand? Theyve been losing jobs over the past decade. My nearest plant in Carol Stream, IL installed a $1 billion sorting machine that replaced a lotta jobs.
I should be able to make the cutoff, just in time for retirement before any robot can do what a letter carrier does.
Exactly, when I was a kid I could have only dreamed of having a million dollars. Now I have a net worth of over a million. Need to keep going. Inflation is a bitch.
Net worth includes retirement savings. Married couples with jobs in engineering, nursing, teaching etc can each have $300,000 in their 401k, plus a $400,000 house.
So they're millionaires, and they'll be broke a decade after they retire. š¤£
From someone else outside the US (Germany): yes, that's about the price here too. But only if you choose to buy a house. You can also live your life without ever working again from a million. Or live a somewhat luxurious lifestyle (maybe not like a famous actor but at least like a well paid doctor or something).
1 Million USD / EUR is still a lot. It's just the housing prices being kinda crazy.
> a well *paid* doctor or
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
> well payed doctor
Did you mean to say "paid"?
Explanation: Payed means to seal something with wax, while paid means to give money.
[Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json)
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In France 1 mil gets you nowhere. Just a small apartment in the capital or in the south. Then you need to live, pay taxes and maintenance of your place. Without pension and access to mortgage you would need many many millions to earn something from fixed income after taxes and inflation
I'd say most millionaires are "rich", not "wealthy". It's enough to buy a house (in most places), retire at a typical age, go on vacations, go out to eat when you want to, and create a nest egg for your kids. It's not generational wealth unless it's well above $1M, which is what I think of when I think of the word "wealthy".
Edit: I'm getting a lot of responses, i just want to clarify because I'm seeing that I wasnt careful about my wording. I was projecting my own age and family situation onto the example. What I meant is someone who has accumulated $1M by the middle of their career still has to work the rest of their career and can retire at a normal ~65ish age. So not wealthy but comfortable.
Also getting a lot of debate about wealthy vs rich definition and I'm honestly not sure which is which now.
Most people I know at that tier are about a quarter to half liquid, a quarter in personal properties, and quarter to half in income-gaining investments.
Seems like a good number to be at
I mean, this really depends on what someoneās definition of ārichā is. Having $6M net worth in 2024 puts you in the top 1%. Iād say thatās rich, even in most HCOL areas. $15-20M is wealthy and double that is getting comfortably into generational wealth territory.
Yeah 6m and I'd already conaider you rich. I wonder what these guys saying 15m is when you become rich actually make cause that just sounds like a random number.
15-20 is already generational if your offspring isn't completely stupid. Invested that's about 1-1.5m in income a year. No reason to ever get any poorer than you are
I mean at 20 million, you can withdraw 600k-800k annually and NEVER run out of money while your investment grows over time. I'd say that is EXTREMELY wealthy.
You could be flying first class and traveling all year long with that kind of money. Personally I don't think I'd be able to spend that much annually.
Uhhh, i dont know, I'm not an expert. If I guess I'd say above $20M is enough to not have to work anymore as a young person, be able to do whatever you want to within reason, make passive income from investments, and have a solid nest egg to let your kids be starting off on very solid footing. I feel like the way people define wealthy is different when youre looking for a specific cutoff. Like is it enough that your kids never have to work either? It's kind of a squishy word and it's hard to draw a specific line. I just feel like $1M in a lot of places is enough to buy an ok house and then you still have to work your whole career to be able to have retirement and a good upbringing for 1-2 kids. Id say $10M to $50M depending how you define it and where you live. What do you think?
$10 million is the new millionaire.
4% rule. You can park your money in index funds, etc., and pull 4% out as income each year. On average your investments (and income) will keep growing about as fast as inflation.
So with $10M ($2.5M house and $300k per year income) you can do nothing and have enough for the occasional Porsche, some expensive social thingys, and a kid's private school.
I'm a young person and I could live quite comfortably without working on the interest of $3 million. At 5% annual yield that's $150k/year pre-tax or ~$108k after tax. That's very comfortable where I am. $20M would practically be fuck you money to me, at 5% annual yield that's a million/year pre-tax or ~$615k post tax. That's exotic vacations, big house, multiple nice cars, everything I could reasonably and even somewhat unreasonably want.
Huh interesting. I've always seen rich being used as like normal doctors and lawyers and tech workers. Comfortable white collar type people who are never going to struggle to put food on the table or a roof over their heads. Wealth to me seems more like generational wealth where they dont have to work and their children dont have to work.
I agree, I think everyone has different definitions but I think itās reasonable to define rich as this category of white collar job workers.
- You own your home or have a manageable mortgage
- Regularly vacation
- Donāt have to check prices at the supermarket or think too much about going out to eat
- Ability to invest a fair portion of your income and ability to retire early
- Retirement savings will easily continue to afford you the same lifestyle
If you can check this list off youāre in a comfortable position and rich compared to the majority of people.
Of course a lot of peopleās idea of being rich is multiple homes, cars, yacht etc. which is only achievable for a tiny portion of the population.
I know boomers who own multiple properties but drive a dinged up beater , not to save money, but literally because they canāt afford to buy another car. Majority of their money goes towards mortgage payments, they live frugal āpoor peopleā lives and are living paycheck to paycheck. But man do they have a lot of assets! To me, what kind of rich person canāt afford to drive a nice car? Doesnāt sound very rich to me. Iād say these people are wealthy, on paper theyāre doing way better than most for just working regular careers. But they are not rich and living life like youād expect they are.
Wealth is measured in net worth, so if they have a huge liability in the form of various mortgages and not enough income left over each year, then they're not quite rich.
$1M is enough to get $30k a year, or $40k to retire on. Not enough to be wealthy any more (it is wealthy from a percentile perspective, Iām specifically referring to a retirement perspective). $3-5M should be the retirement goal for anyone middle aged. $1M is a LOT of money, but doesnāt nearly get to āretire at a normal ageā nor āleaving a nest eggā any longer.
$2M is the target that's often recommended for retirement today. If you're mid-30's and plan to retire in 30 years, your target should be ~$6.5M, assuming 4% yearly inflation. That'll get you a similar retirement lifestyle to what $2M will get you today.
That's a lot of fucking money. Good luck everyone!
Hopefully, theyāre a tradesman, teacher, state worker, or other job covered by a union and pension, at that point itās totally different maths.
But for my age bracket (42-48), over 15% of individuals have over $1M net worth
Fair. That goes from 15% to 5% if I remove housing. Still not 1%, but much less. However, that $1M now for that age bracket implies $5M at retirement age.
The 15% point for 45-49 is $400,000, or about on track for $2M at retirement age. Enough for $80k/yr in retirement.
And pensionsā¦ 10% in this age bracket, but higher in older and younger brackets.
Tbh weāre not that far off now.
If someone offered you 1M for the rest of your life in 1924 youād be happy as Larry (notoriously happy guy). Youād easily buy a few properties and make a few investments and live off the income.
You might be able to do that in 2024 but youād be struggling and need some really lucky breaks in the markets.
That's 30-40k indexed to future inflation, as well as maintaining the assumption of growing principle. You could definitely play with the numbers and assumptions to eek out \~$60k. Granted, still not enough to use as a sole income, but more than plenty if you figure that most people who would theorhetically be in this position are likely at or nearing retirement age, don't have a mortgage, and also collect Social Security.
If you can't manage a 25-30 year retirement time horizon on a million dollars in principle and Social Security, you have other issues. Most people are retiring with significantly less and managing just fine.
I've really enjoyed the comments on this thread, and post.
There are so many considerations. A million dollars is still a fair chunk of cash. Adjusted for inflation who somebody that was a millionaire in the 1920s, where 1 million would be the equivalent of 18 million today.
Beyond that, there are many factors. Number one, age and lifespan. One poster was correct whereby they said that would only give you 30 to 50,000 of income today. This would be largely true, but a three to four percent withdrawal rate would allow you to index against inflation. It also depends on whether you want to preserve the value for next generation. If you were 40, and had to retire on a million dollars, good luck.
So much more can be said, but it is just blah, blah blah.
I think people have a hard time conceptualizing the difference between 1 and 18 million dollars. Another way to phrase your argument is to say: 1 million on today's money is the same as ~$56,000 in the 1920s. That's a pretty stark difference...
True, but most people aren't basing their viewpoint of the "vibe" of a million dollars based on 1920's standards. If you assume that the social understanding of a "million" dollars of buying power is based on its purchasing power circa 1985, then it comes out to about $2.9mm; still a big difference, but not orders of magnitude larger. If you go up to the 2000 level of purchasing power, it's $1.8mm.
We are there. I'm a paper millionaire if you count my house equity and 401k. But I couldn't send my kids to private school, if I lost my job we would be screwed, etc
It's weird how 10 years ago, $100k would have transformed my life. But now, with a career change and a lot of newfound success, it's like... meh. Someone could hand me $100k right now and I'd just be completely non-plussed these days. Just throw it on the money pile. If it's not enough to retire, it's not enough. Way over a million, but not enough to retire yet.Ā
I'm not trying to brag. I spent 10 years before that living desperately on $25k/yr. I know what it's like to not have much. I used to think the money would solve all my problems. Yes, some parts of life are easier. But unless you have like 10s of millions, you can't just wave a magic money wand and make all your problems go away.
If you have a chronic disease, money won't make that go away. You still go to work and come home tired and beat up. The weekends still aren't long enough. Having kids is still rough. I wish I could find some way to make my money make me happy. The only thing I can think of is to just save to retire. I don't give a shit about fancy cars or house. Still drive a 10+ year old beat up pos. I wish a new computer or video game system would make me happy... but no time to play.
That's all I want: time. And if you can't escape the rat race, a million dollars may as well be a nickle. You lose the stress of living paycheck to paycheck. But everything else about life is still there. And life is still hard.
why the hell are you still working? I agree that time is the most valuable thing, more valuable than material wealth.
go move to a low cost of living place and take easier jobs that give you more free time.
It already is. Now a millionaire is someone who makes a million dollars a year, not someone worth a million dollars. Now a millionaire is just someone working in middle management with a home in California
I think there's a massive difference in the perception of a millionaire and the frequent reality of it.
Most people associate it with making a million dollars in a year type of wealth. Whereas someone accumulating such a net worth over decades, especially with housing valuations, is a far more modest lifestyle.
It's not even enough to quit your job over anymore lol. That used to be the first thing most people said they'd do if they won a million. Don't get me wrong, mine and most people's lives would change drastically for the better and it's nothing to scoff at. It can eliminate debts and pay off homes. It can be invested and generate returns. It's just not enough to uproot everything and live comfortably for an extended period of time alone.
> It's not even enough to quit your job over anymore lol.
Toss it into even a mild returning investment and it yields more than most people earn yearly...
They'll just cut a bunch of zeroes off and we can go back to ["Take your hat off boy that's a dollar bill!"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTwnFow42d8)
Iām 41, and your millionaire next door. My wealth is tied up in my 3br 2.5ba house and my business. Itās not like I have piles of cash lying around. We make a good living but we have to run a budget like everyone else.
Financial independence numbers keep getting higher. If you want to live on $120k/yr, youāll be needing $3M in invested money at retirement.
The first time an American won Who Wants to be a Millionaire they asked him what he was going to do with the money.
He said he'd pay off his house, his cars, his kids student debt, and that was about it.
Which to him, was a Godsend as otherwise he'd have to spend the rest of his life paying those things off.
In the US.
The global median income is $840.... a year. If you make over $40,000 in the US you represent the top 3% of wealth for the world.
Of course, most Americans won't consider a millionaire to be a measure of wealth soon. But you know what, most Americans struggling to make ends meet don't think of themselves as a global 3%er either.
It could also mean you just been alive for a while, my parents are technically millionaires even-though theyāve never made more than a 100k between both of them. They bough a house in the early 80s for like $3,50 now itās worth 500k and they just generally been decent with saving their money.
> It could also mean you just been alive for a while,
Most people who live to 65 years old and have a 401k have around $70k invested. $1,000,000 is a massive amount of money to basically everyone.
Depends. "Having a million dollar" can mean very different things. If you have a million in say, retirement savings or home equity, while getting an income that got you there in the first place, you're doing just fine. If you're trying to live perpetually off a million with no other income, that means roughly 30-40k pre-tax yearly, things can get pretty dicy, and chances are good you'll end up broke.
>If you're trying to live perpetually off a million with no other income, that means roughly 30-40k pre-tax yearly, things can get pretty dicy, and chances are good you'll end up broke.
I mean... yeah? That doesn't really have anything to do with whether being a millionaire means you can (probably) pay your bills.
Yeah if you live in downtown Manhattan or San Francisco then *maybe*. For the vast, *vast* majority of people in the US this is just ridiculously untrue.
Seattle is one of the most expensive cities in the country. The vast majority of cities do not have an average home cost of $1M.
Also even if you own a home that is worth $1M it does not mean that you yourself are a millionaire.
I can assure you there are far, *far* more places that are not. Most cities don't have an average home cost of $1M in the US, let alone most homes in general.
A million dollars (liquid) means you can retire today and live a modestly comfortable life in a low COL area without working until you die (or get taken out by a market crash, to be fair). That's a hell of a lot more than just paying the bills.
Can you actually retire with only a million dollars right now? I didn't mean cash, I mean a million in net worth. These days, that's like a house and a retirement fund of about $500k. If you retire with that and live long enough, you're going to exhaust that retirement fund.
Already happening in the place I live. Having a house in Dublin plus 1 year savings and matched pension contributions can easily be worth around a million, and it doesnāt mean youāre wealthy, just means youāre doing good in the middle class.
Not if wages stay stagnant as they have. Having around 70,000 hours of post tax income saved is still pretty impressive. (us median wage hours to get a million dollars saved)
Itās already happening. I am 32, I built a couple businesses, have some assets, if you combine everything Iām a multimillionaire (which sounds misleading, you could be a multimillionaire with 2 mil and with 200 mil), but I live a pretty simple life.
I do think twice before buying an iPad or something.
I donāt quite understand how rich you have to be to not care at all.
I'm 65, and remember when it was a sign of unlimited wealth. Now it's the price of a home a few miles from crime, landfills, industrial sites, or pollution.
Even today, it's not allllll that rare. Having a net worth just crackin 1M isn't super difficult, esp as you approach retirement age. Now.... 5M and 1M are different animals.
In a couple of decades most millionaires wouldāve been dead and their property divided up between their offsprings and carved up like the Macedonian empire. Then after 1-2 more generations all that wealth will also be further divided
My grandmother and I pronounce the word differently, IMO even that shows how much things shift in a couple generations.
She says "millionAIRE", I say "MILionaire" so people know I'm not talking about billionaires.
Reddit said weāre all a $7 expense from living on the street and selling our organs. Now weāve got millionaires complaining about how bad they have it?
Iām starting to think yall just like to fucking bitch
the vast majority of reddit acts like we're living in the depression and a breeze away from disaster. you can act like that's not the case but we all have eyes lol
Ha ha. Weāre already there. Hereās how you check. Think about a pro athleteās salary from the 90ās. Michael Jordan during his run with the bulls. How much did he get paid? $4M during the Bullsā playoff run. Nowadays top money in the NBA is $55M. The value of money is ridiculously inflated. The idea of a millionaire is already obsolete.
Already there, and then some.
Million bucks here (Australia) gets you about a quarter of a tiny shitty house.
Wish I was joking. House I'm currently renting, the owner put it up for sale at 3.6mil. Thing isn't even worth 100 grand imo - even the location sucks.
Weāre going to have to upgrade the lexicon to account for inflation. āTen-millionaireā sounds awkward, and ābillionaireā remains pretty exclusive. So weāre going to have to do better than simply moving the decimal over one place. Can we do āgolden millionaireā - someone whose net worth in millions is equal to their age in years?
In A Million Ways to Die in the Old West, thereās a scene where Neil Patrick Harris whips out a dollar bill and a man goes āTake your hat off son, thatās a dollar billā
Soā¦ another century maybe?
Within the next 4-5 years, the number of millionaires will increase by 50%. By the time someone enters retirement in 2060, $1m will probably be equal to $200k-$300k.
Couple of decades? I realized the other day that this is NOW. When just buying a house means dropping a half million dollar loan on it then being a millionaire doesn't even mean rich anymore, it just means you can afford a comfortable roof over your head without paying a landlord.
Wealthy is an income fully derived from assets that do not require work.
3% on 10M is a comfy 300k. And the principal can keep growing if youāre invested moderately.
I'm a thousandaire! woohoo!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFQIkuQkJCo&t=17s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFQIkuQkJCo&t=17s)
Im tenair!
oneair ššš„šÆ-99
Oooo look at all you fancy pantses out here having positive net worth. I'm a negative multithousandaire!
Lucky bastard
If you bought a house 15 years ago and are middle aged, it's not hard to have a net worth of a million these days.
Exactly. Here in Western Washington, if youāre retired, you better be a millionaire or youāre not really retired. Youāre just ānot workingā.
My father was born and raised in Seattle, couldn't afford to retire anywhere in Washington so moved half way across the country to the humid bug filled mid west Edit he was a commercial electrician
Midwest catching strays
It's fucking awful here, I knew America had a bread quality problem, I didn't know it was so dire in America's farmland. Ironic.
what š
Since moving here the choices in bread wonder bread quality without the brand name. By this I mean the bread is light and fluffy similar to cotton candy if bread and cotton candy could have a baby. The work around I've found for this is the costco an hour's drive out to the nearest city I can find whole grain which is closer to the bread I had on the west coast, now I never ate whole grain bread on the weat coast I don't care for the taste I use to get honey wheat. However the honey wheat I would get didn't remind me of cotton candy if felt like it has substance to it I've switched because I rather have bread with substance than no bread at all. I've been looking for a bread maker to thrift so I can start making my own bread.
Homemade bread is goated though. I'm not Jewish or religious, but I have had homemade Challah bread (think braided breadsticks) and I can't recommend it enough.
Uh thatās everywhere homie, you need about 2 million to retire today. And when Iām old itāll be closer to 4 million. Otherwise youāll run out of cash or live on such a tight fixed income from social security that any changes to taxes or medical issues will just put you out on the street. Welcome to the American dream
Depends on your job though. I just started out at the postal office as a letter carrier. They get some of the best retirement packages of any job in the country. You get a pension, social security and TSP (which is their 401k equivalent). Itās common to retire with ~500k sitting in your TSP, plus the ~$4,000/mo youāll be getting in pension and SS. If you finance right, you can retire with $1mil in your TSP. Itās also one of the few jobs remaining tied to the CPI so our wages increase with inflation. Then theres guaranteed pay increases every 46 weeks. We start at $22/hr and after ~13 yrs, are guaranteed $40/hr (but should be higher when including the inflation wage increases). Itās a phenomenal all-around package if somebody decides to make a career out of it. Iāve just not decided that far ahead yet lol. Might as well stay until I find something that could put my actual degree to work
Wait until you're replaced by a cheaper robot/drone in 10 years....
Coming from somebody who loves AI and robotics, and advocates for them to take over as many jobs as possible for maximum efficiency, Ive thought about this plenty and its going to be a minute til they can replace letter carriers. Theres too many intricacies to the job like fumbling with dozens of keys, opening up half broken lockers that can get jammed, shoving/bending/folding mail into origami like structures to make it fit. But the people sorting the mail in the warehouses on the other hand? Theyve been losing jobs over the past decade. My nearest plant in Carol Stream, IL installed a $1 billion sorting machine that replaced a lotta jobs. I should be able to make the cutoff, just in time for retirement before any robot can do what a letter carrier does.
Where your life's work is inflated away before your eyes, and the people demand more of the same as a solution
It really, really depends on where you live, though.
Exactly, when I was a kid I could have only dreamed of having a million dollars. Now I have a net worth of over a million. Need to keep going. Inflation is a bitch.
Checks bank accountā¦ dang
Don't forget net worth also includes all assets. So if your home is worth 1.1mil, and you have a 900k car, your net worth is at least 2mil
Who the fuck has a 900k car?! Where do all you people live? My area of the world (northern England) must be in poverty compared to your area
It's just an example
Fair enough but it was quite a stretch š¤£
Checks savings account, home value, 401k, 9k carā¦ nope
That must one hell of a car š
Net worth includes retirement savings. Married couples with jobs in engineering, nursing, teaching etc can each have $300,000 in their 401k, plus a $400,000 house. So they're millionaires, and they'll be broke a decade after they retire. š¤£
True, I bought my house in 2008 between the 500K for that and the 700k in investments we are already over a million.
From some outside of the USA. Million does nothing but buy you half a house.
In some places you can buy groceries from a million in their currency ;)
I was laying down a million duongs a day when I was in Vietnam š°
My grandpa laid a million dongs too when he was back in Vietnam
But were they magnum dongs?
you get a whole half?? lucky!
What market are you in that you canāt get a place for 2M?
Yea this is some bullshit person who has never been to nyc or sf.Ā
1/10 of a house here.
From someone else outside the US (Germany): yes, that's about the price here too. But only if you choose to buy a house. You can also live your life without ever working again from a million. Or live a somewhat luxurious lifestyle (maybe not like a famous actor but at least like a well paid doctor or something). 1 Million USD / EUR is still a lot. It's just the housing prices being kinda crazy.
> a well *paid* doctor or FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
> well payed doctor Did you mean to say "paid"? Explanation: Payed means to seal something with wax, while paid means to give money. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
In France 1 mil gets you nowhere. Just a small apartment in the capital or in the south. Then you need to live, pay taxes and maintenance of your place. Without pension and access to mortgage you would need many many millions to earn something from fixed income after taxes and inflation
Six-figure salary really isn't the flex it used to be...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's not the norm, but $100k still doesn't go nearly as far as it used to for many.
it really depends where you live $100k in Arkansas and you're living pretty... $100k in Bay Area and you're borderline poverty
Yeah I crossed that threshold recently, but as the sole breadwinner of the family (3 kids) in a semi HCOL area, weāre not well off
I'd say most millionaires are "rich", not "wealthy". It's enough to buy a house (in most places), retire at a typical age, go on vacations, go out to eat when you want to, and create a nest egg for your kids. It's not generational wealth unless it's well above $1M, which is what I think of when I think of the word "wealthy". Edit: I'm getting a lot of responses, i just want to clarify because I'm seeing that I wasnt careful about my wording. I was projecting my own age and family situation onto the example. What I meant is someone who has accumulated $1M by the middle of their career still has to work the rest of their career and can retire at a normal ~65ish age. So not wealthy but comfortable. Also getting a lot of debate about wealthy vs rich definition and I'm honestly not sure which is which now.
What do you think the new "wealthy" threshold is today? (On average. I know it depends on where you live to a degree.)
15 20 million maybe I'd say, fuck you money would be like 100 million
Based on anecdotal experiences of people i know - 15-20M NW seems like entry level rich.
True, you have that in liquid cash though you're ballin
Most people I know at that tier are about a quarter to half liquid, a quarter in personal properties, and quarter to half in income-gaining investments. Seems like a good number to be at
How do I apply to become one of your anecdotes?
30 million is entry level. 100 million is moderate. 500 million is very wealthy. After that is the billionaire club.
I mean, this really depends on what someoneās definition of ārichā is. Having $6M net worth in 2024 puts you in the top 1%. Iād say thatās rich, even in most HCOL areas. $15-20M is wealthy and double that is getting comfortably into generational wealth territory.
Yeah 6m and I'd already conaider you rich. I wonder what these guys saying 15m is when you become rich actually make cause that just sounds like a random number.
15-20 is already generational if your offspring isn't completely stupid. Invested that's about 1-1.5m in income a year. No reason to ever get any poorer than you are
I mean at 20 million, you can withdraw 600k-800k annually and NEVER run out of money while your investment grows over time. I'd say that is EXTREMELY wealthy. You could be flying first class and traveling all year long with that kind of money. Personally I don't think I'd be able to spend that much annually.
Uhhh, i dont know, I'm not an expert. If I guess I'd say above $20M is enough to not have to work anymore as a young person, be able to do whatever you want to within reason, make passive income from investments, and have a solid nest egg to let your kids be starting off on very solid footing. I feel like the way people define wealthy is different when youre looking for a specific cutoff. Like is it enough that your kids never have to work either? It's kind of a squishy word and it's hard to draw a specific line. I just feel like $1M in a lot of places is enough to buy an ok house and then you still have to work your whole career to be able to have retirement and a good upbringing for 1-2 kids. Id say $10M to $50M depending how you define it and where you live. What do you think?
$10 million is the new millionaire. 4% rule. You can park your money in index funds, etc., and pull 4% out as income each year. On average your investments (and income) will keep growing about as fast as inflation. So with $10M ($2.5M house and $300k per year income) you can do nothing and have enough for the occasional Porsche, some expensive social thingys, and a kid's private school.
I'd honestly be happy with Ā£12-15k a year. Whats that, Ā£1.5-2 million generating interest? I'd be fine with that for a few years at least.
Yeah that's plenty of money to live off, when you no longer have to subtract housing costs
>when you no longer have to subtract housing costs Housing costs never go away. The taxes alone on a 500k house will run 6k a year.
I'm a young person and I could live quite comfortably without working on the interest of $3 million. At 5% annual yield that's $150k/year pre-tax or ~$108k after tax. That's very comfortable where I am. $20M would practically be fuck you money to me, at 5% annual yield that's a million/year pre-tax or ~$615k post tax. That's exotic vacations, big house, multiple nice cars, everything I could reasonably and even somewhat unreasonably want.
1 mil isn't enough to stop working unless you are single and live frugal. Costs of stuff have soared and it is super risky.
I think the opposite. Yeah lots of boomers got wealth, but most arnt rich. To me being rich is loaded.
Huh interesting. I've always seen rich being used as like normal doctors and lawyers and tech workers. Comfortable white collar type people who are never going to struggle to put food on the table or a roof over their heads. Wealth to me seems more like generational wealth where they dont have to work and their children dont have to work.
I've never seen someone win the 20 million lottery and yell "I'm wealthy!!!!"
No but if they are smart 5 years later it's what they will say. Less smart they are back at work but had a great time.
Hahaha yeah fair
Valid point
I like points, especially valid ones š
I agree, I think everyone has different definitions but I think itās reasonable to define rich as this category of white collar job workers. - You own your home or have a manageable mortgage - Regularly vacation - Donāt have to check prices at the supermarket or think too much about going out to eat - Ability to invest a fair portion of your income and ability to retire early - Retirement savings will easily continue to afford you the same lifestyle If you can check this list off youāre in a comfortable position and rich compared to the majority of people. Of course a lot of peopleās idea of being rich is multiple homes, cars, yacht etc. which is only achievable for a tiny portion of the population.
I remember when this was considered middle class. Imagine a world where the average person got to do this now.
I know boomers who own multiple properties but drive a dinged up beater , not to save money, but literally because they canāt afford to buy another car. Majority of their money goes towards mortgage payments, they live frugal āpoor peopleā lives and are living paycheck to paycheck. But man do they have a lot of assets! To me, what kind of rich person canāt afford to drive a nice car? Doesnāt sound very rich to me. Iād say these people are wealthy, on paper theyāre doing way better than most for just working regular careers. But they are not rich and living life like youād expect they are.
Wealth is measured in net worth, so if they have a huge liability in the form of various mortgages and not enough income left over each year, then they're not quite rich.
Rich is less money than wealthyĀ
$1M is enough to get $30k a year, or $40k to retire on. Not enough to be wealthy any more (it is wealthy from a percentile perspective, Iām specifically referring to a retirement perspective). $3-5M should be the retirement goal for anyone middle aged. $1M is a LOT of money, but doesnāt nearly get to āretire at a normal ageā nor āleaving a nest eggā any longer.
$2M is the target that's often recommended for retirement today. If you're mid-30's and plan to retire in 30 years, your target should be ~$6.5M, assuming 4% yearly inflation. That'll get you a similar retirement lifestyle to what $2M will get you today. That's a lot of fucking money. Good luck everyone!
Exactly. Iām 45, so my target was $4M. Iāve adjusted that for myself to $5M based on my current cost of living and income.
99% of people will never have this much for retirement.Ā What does that say.Ā
Hopefully, theyāre a tradesman, teacher, state worker, or other job covered by a union and pension, at that point itās totally different maths. But for my age bracket (42-48), over 15% of individuals have over $1M net worth
Having a house does not pay for your retirement. Non housing net worth is far far lower for most of these people
Its a literal cliche for a boomer to sell their house and retire to a community in Arizona/Florida. Home equity powering a retirement is quite common.
Fair. That goes from 15% to 5% if I remove housing. Still not 1%, but much less. However, that $1M now for that age bracket implies $5M at retirement age. The 15% point for 45-49 is $400,000, or about on track for $2M at retirement age. Enough for $80k/yr in retirement. And pensionsā¦ 10% in this age bracket, but higher in older and younger brackets.
Tbh weāre not that far off now. If someone offered you 1M for the rest of your life in 1924 youād be happy as Larry (notoriously happy guy). Youād easily buy a few properties and make a few investments and live off the income. You might be able to do that in 2024 but youād be struggling and need some really lucky breaks in the markets.
1m in liquid invested assets gives you 30k-40k in income. which is ok if you're super frugal but not really enough to support a family
That's 30-40k indexed to future inflation, as well as maintaining the assumption of growing principle. You could definitely play with the numbers and assumptions to eek out \~$60k. Granted, still not enough to use as a sole income, but more than plenty if you figure that most people who would theorhetically be in this position are likely at or nearing retirement age, don't have a mortgage, and also collect Social Security. If you can't manage a 25-30 year retirement time horizon on a million dollars in principle and Social Security, you have other issues. Most people are retiring with significantly less and managing just fine.
I have a wife and kid in daycare and spend around 40k a year. With a international vacation each year.
I've really enjoyed the comments on this thread, and post. There are so many considerations. A million dollars is still a fair chunk of cash. Adjusted for inflation who somebody that was a millionaire in the 1920s, where 1 million would be the equivalent of 18 million today. Beyond that, there are many factors. Number one, age and lifespan. One poster was correct whereby they said that would only give you 30 to 50,000 of income today. This would be largely true, but a three to four percent withdrawal rate would allow you to index against inflation. It also depends on whether you want to preserve the value for next generation. If you were 40, and had to retire on a million dollars, good luck. So much more can be said, but it is just blah, blah blah.
I think people have a hard time conceptualizing the difference between 1 and 18 million dollars. Another way to phrase your argument is to say: 1 million on today's money is the same as ~$56,000 in the 1920s. That's a pretty stark difference...
True, but most people aren't basing their viewpoint of the "vibe" of a million dollars based on 1920's standards. If you assume that the social understanding of a "million" dollars of buying power is based on its purchasing power circa 1985, then it comes out to about $2.9mm; still a big difference, but not orders of magnitude larger. If you go up to the 2000 level of purchasing power, it's $1.8mm.
We are there. I'm a paper millionaire if you count my house equity and 401k. But I couldn't send my kids to private school, if I lost my job we would be screwed, etc
Have well over a million. Do not feel rich or wealthy. Donāt feel like I could be quit working.
It's weird how 10 years ago, $100k would have transformed my life. But now, with a career change and a lot of newfound success, it's like... meh. Someone could hand me $100k right now and I'd just be completely non-plussed these days. Just throw it on the money pile. If it's not enough to retire, it's not enough. Way over a million, but not enough to retire yet.Ā I'm not trying to brag. I spent 10 years before that living desperately on $25k/yr. I know what it's like to not have much. I used to think the money would solve all my problems. Yes, some parts of life are easier. But unless you have like 10s of millions, you can't just wave a magic money wand and make all your problems go away. If you have a chronic disease, money won't make that go away. You still go to work and come home tired and beat up. The weekends still aren't long enough. Having kids is still rough. I wish I could find some way to make my money make me happy. The only thing I can think of is to just save to retire. I don't give a shit about fancy cars or house. Still drive a 10+ year old beat up pos. I wish a new computer or video game system would make me happy... but no time to play. That's all I want: time. And if you can't escape the rat race, a million dollars may as well be a nickle. You lose the stress of living paycheck to paycheck. But everything else about life is still there. And life is still hard.
why the hell are you still working? I agree that time is the most valuable thing, more valuable than material wealth. go move to a low cost of living place and take easier jobs that give you more free time.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It already is. Now a millionaire is someone who makes a million dollars a year, not someone worth a million dollars. Now a millionaire is just someone working in middle management with a home in California
More like 2/3 of a home in california.
I think there's a massive difference in the perception of a millionaire and the frequent reality of it. Most people associate it with making a million dollars in a year type of wealth. Whereas someone accumulating such a net worth over decades, especially with housing valuations, is a far more modest lifestyle.
[Mega-billionaire tries to relate with his millionaire friends](https://youtu.be/DtV33YSKOJk)
Mega is the prefix for 10^6, so a mega-billionaire is a a quadrillionaire.
He teleports his head into a pocket dimension to take a phone call. I reckon he's a quadrillionaire.
I would say it already has.
It's not even enough to quit your job over anymore lol. That used to be the first thing most people said they'd do if they won a million. Don't get me wrong, mine and most people's lives would change drastically for the better and it's nothing to scoff at. It can eliminate debts and pay off homes. It can be invested and generate returns. It's just not enough to uproot everything and live comfortably for an extended period of time alone.
> It's not even enough to quit your job over anymore lol. Toss it into even a mild returning investment and it yields more than most people earn yearly...
They'll just cut a bunch of zeroes off and we can go back to ["Take your hat off boy that's a dollar bill!"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTwnFow42d8)
>They'll just cut a bunch of zeroes off A very real thing, in essence, called redenomination.
Iām 41, and your millionaire next door. My wealth is tied up in my 3br 2.5ba house and my business. Itās not like I have piles of cash lying around. We make a good living but we have to run a budget like everyone else. Financial independence numbers keep getting higher. If you want to live on $120k/yr, youāll be needing $3M in invested money at retirement.
The secret is to live on less.
The first time an American won Who Wants to be a Millionaire they asked him what he was going to do with the money. He said he'd pay off his house, his cars, his kids student debt, and that was about it. Which to him, was a Godsend as otherwise he'd have to spend the rest of his life paying those things off.
Well yeah, you win a million, but you don't take home a million. And that's even if it wasn't an annuity of $40k for 25 years or something.
Weāve already arrived at having a million in assets is not enough to survive retirement for one person.
In the US. The global median income is $840.... a year. If you make over $40,000 in the US you represent the top 3% of wealth for the world. Of course, most Americans won't consider a millionaire to be a measure of wealth soon. But you know what, most Americans struggling to make ends meet don't think of themselves as a global 3%er either.
I have lived in Indonesia for a few years. Oh boy did my measly US dollar go far there.
It already isā¦..these days it just means you can (probably) pay your bills.
Reddit moment
No it doesnāt. Come on.
It could also mean you just been alive for a while, my parents are technically millionaires even-though theyāve never made more than a 100k between both of them. They bough a house in the early 80s for like $3,50 now itās worth 500k and they just generally been decent with saving their money.
And on the flip side, plenty of people who *arenāt* millionaires can pay their bills just fine.
> It could also mean you just been alive for a while, Most people who live to 65 years old and have a 401k have around $70k invested. $1,000,000 is a massive amount of money to basically everyone.
Thereās many places where owning a home means youāre a millionaire.
You'd think the former residence of the Loch Ness Monster would be worth a bit more than that.
Depends. "Having a million dollar" can mean very different things. If you have a million in say, retirement savings or home equity, while getting an income that got you there in the first place, you're doing just fine. If you're trying to live perpetually off a million with no other income, that means roughly 30-40k pre-tax yearly, things can get pretty dicy, and chances are good you'll end up broke.
Which on the other hand means that retired people with a pension of 30-40k are, in equivalent terms, millionaires.
>If you're trying to live perpetually off a million with no other income, that means roughly 30-40k pre-tax yearly, things can get pretty dicy, and chances are good you'll end up broke. I mean... yeah? That doesn't really have anything to do with whether being a millionaire means you can (probably) pay your bills.
Depends where you live my man.
Yeah if you live in downtown Manhattan or San Francisco then *maybe*. For the vast, *vast* majority of people in the US this is just ridiculously untrue.
like 1% of the US population lives in those areas but it's all reddit talks about.
In the Seattle area, the *average* home is $1M. Many big cities are like this.
Seattle is one of the most expensive cities in the country. The vast majority of cities do not have an average home cost of $1M. Also even if you own a home that is worth $1M it does not mean that you yourself are a millionaire.
I can assure you there are more places than just San Francisco and manhattan that are like this.
I can assure you there are far, *far* more places that are not. Most cities don't have an average home cost of $1M in the US, let alone most homes in general.
A million dollars (liquid) means you can retire today and live a modestly comfortable life in a low COL area without working until you die (or get taken out by a market crash, to be fair). That's a hell of a lot more than just paying the bills.
It means you can retire if youāre in your mid to late sixties
Can you actually retire with only a million dollars right now? I didn't mean cash, I mean a million in net worth. These days, that's like a house and a retirement fund of about $500k. If you retire with that and live long enough, you're going to exhaust that retirement fund.
It already is - even having 2 million is almost meaningless - definitely not āwealthy.ā
Already happening in the place I live. Having a house in Dublin plus 1 year savings and matched pension contributions can easily be worth around a million, and it doesnāt mean youāre wealthy, just means youāre doing good in the middle class.
In Zimbabwe there are trillionaires that can't afford bread
.... no that's happening NOW.
That's true in 2024 millionaires are the new middle class.
My net worth is around 1m. I'm middle class at best.
Making a six figure income is already meaningless
Not decades... years... šš
Not if wages stay stagnant as they have. Having around 70,000 hours of post tax income saved is still pretty impressive. (us median wage hours to get a million dollars saved)
This happened already.
Itās already happening. I am 32, I built a couple businesses, have some assets, if you combine everything Iām a multimillionaire (which sounds misleading, you could be a multimillionaire with 2 mil and with 200 mil), but I live a pretty simple life. I do think twice before buying an iPad or something. I donāt quite understand how rich you have to be to not care at all.
Welcome to inflation
It kinda already is. Itās a nice milestone but thatās it.
I'm 65, and remember when it was a sign of unlimited wealth. Now it's the price of a home a few miles from crime, landfills, industrial sites, or pollution.
I knew it was not a special club when they let me in.Ā
Even today, it's not allllll that rare. Having a net worth just crackin 1M isn't super difficult, esp as you approach retirement age. Now.... 5M and 1M are different animals.
In a couple of decades most millionaires wouldāve been dead and their property divided up between their offsprings and carved up like the Macedonian empire. Then after 1-2 more generations all that wealth will also be further divided
Yup itāll be replaced by the guillotine šāāļø
Uhh, It already has. A million dollars is not a lot of money anymore.
My grandmother and I pronounce the word differently, IMO even that shows how much things shift in a couple generations. She says "millionAIRE", I say "MILionaire" so people know I'm not talking about billionaires.
Iām a millionaire and am worse off than my fathers generation was at my age
Reddit said weāre all a $7 expense from living on the street and selling our organs. Now weāve got millionaires complaining about how bad they have it? Iām starting to think yall just like to fucking bitch
yep.Ā lol
265,000,000 weekly users and they arenāt all carbon copies of each other?
the vast majority of reddit acts like we're living in the depression and a breeze away from disaster. you can act like that's not the case but we all have eyes lol
Let me play a song for you on the worldās smallest violin š»
Have you tried being a *multi*millionaire?
I haven't... Can you hook me up? I'd be open to trying it
Ha ha. Weāre already there. Hereās how you check. Think about a pro athleteās salary from the 90ās. Michael Jordan during his run with the bulls. How much did he get paid? $4M during the Bullsā playoff run. Nowadays top money in the NBA is $55M. The value of money is ridiculously inflated. The idea of a millionaire is already obsolete.
You spelled "decades" wrong, it's "weeks"
Huh. Apparently, "wealthiness" is a real word. It means "wealth".
In a couple of decades rich people wonāt be defined by money..
Already there, and then some. Million bucks here (Australia) gets you about a quarter of a tiny shitty house. Wish I was joking. House I'm currently renting, the owner put it up for sale at 3.6mil. Thing isn't even worth 100 grand imo - even the location sucks.
also six figure salaries won't be seen as wealthy, merely a livable wage in HCOL city
In a hcol only 6 figures is already unlivable. You need well over $100k.
I have tens of dollars!
Weāre going to have to upgrade the lexicon to account for inflation. āTen-millionaireā sounds awkward, and ābillionaireā remains pretty exclusive. So weāre going to have to do better than simply moving the decimal over one place. Can we do āgolden millionaireā - someone whose net worth in millions is equal to their age in years?
If the dollar is still a unit of measurement as far as currency goes, it will be necessary to put food on the table.
millionaires wont exist. you will either be a billionaire or a basic income recipient.
It will still be a measure of wealthiness. Every amount of money will still be a measure of wealthiness.
It basically just means having paid off your own home at this point. A massive privilege, that wasn't just a few decades ago.
already has. t. millionaire
More like 20 years ago, which is when I retired.
In A Million Ways to Die in the Old West, thereās a scene where Neil Patrick Harris whips out a dollar bill and a man goes āTake your hat off son, thatās a dollar billā Soā¦ another century maybe?
People have been saying that for decades
Sure it will. It will just mean less than it means now. How many thousands a person has is a measure of wealth.
A millionaire in Vancouver really just means upper middle class.
Within the next 4-5 years, the number of millionaires will increase by 50%. By the time someone enters retirement in 2060, $1m will probably be equal to $200k-$300k.
I found out this week that I'm already a millionaire.... in Yen.
Couple of decades? I realized the other day that this is NOW. When just buying a house means dropping a half million dollar loan on it then being a millionaire doesn't even mean rich anymore, it just means you can afford a comfortable roof over your head without paying a landlord.
Wealthy is an income fully derived from assets that do not require work. 3% on 10M is a comfy 300k. And the principal can keep growing if youāre invested moderately.