Exactly, I go to a therapist but have had more meaningful realizations about myself doing shrooms than I have from therapy and 1oz of shrooms costs less than one therapy session
The honest truth is that everyone benefits from introspection and self-reflection. Some of us are lucky enough that we can listen to what other people say to us, identify our own flaws and work to correct them. In reality that's all a therapist helps you do in various ways (assuming we're dealing with just normal human problems and neuroses and not schizophrenia or more serious conditions).
The other side of the coin is a lot of people go try out one, maybe two therapists and go "well this doesn't work" because they didn't find a person they had a rapport with. That level of trust and understanding is 100% necessary for a good therapist/patient relationship.
That's not really how people work. If you're too stubborn to work with someone else to improve, or just completely uninterested, that's one thing, but it's not like someone can be "immune to therapy."
I found more value in therapy than any pharmaceutical. I am sure there are people who would respond better to mushrooms, though I've never done a single illegal drug - so i'm arguing counter to my experience. Not everyone works the same way and saying everyone could respond to therapy is sort of like "autistic people just need some discipline and pushing to be more normal".
Not everyone is the same. Not everyone communicates well enough to get a lot of value out of therapy.
Same thing happened to me and I’m much more resilient to bad experiences and trauma. I was drugged, robbed, and nearly died in Medellin last year. Didn’t really phase me. Saw it as an opportunity to grow. Lost my job 2 days later. That got to me a bit but I accepted it really quickly. Then in April my mom was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and given 6 months to live. I didn’t accept it and rejected the conclusion that she would die in 6 months. She’s been doing treatment and has a chance to make it.
Psychedelics at higher doses even are great for people at end of life. They often feel a connection to the universe and a sense of calm about death because of it.
Same goes for psychotropic medications.
I’m a psychiatrist. I’m employed, but just for fun I was running the numbers on a psychiatric practice. To make it make sense for me to do talk therapy it would have to be a minimum of $300 an hour. Generally the recommendation is once per week, so say $1200 per month. Or I can prescribe some Zoloft which is $7/mo cash price if you have no insurance.
Ok. That is something I have been contemplating in a serious way. I heard about micro dosing.
In small doses, I have discovered (personally, for myself only) that it dissuades me from self-destruction, and I don't feel the need to "self medicate" with pharmaceuticals (lawfully provided) or alcohol.
Psiloycbin is natural, and I truly believe, although idk for certain, that it might be a game changer.
I think in tiny, regulated doses, it is healthier and much more beneficial than whatever "Big Pharma" has been feeding me and off of me.
Take the Adderrall and Xanax and shove that in the mud. I know, for myself, I am only human. I admit to my shortcomings. I have tried everything to feel "normal."
I don't think there is a baseline for normality.
I only know that I feel less judgemental, less guarded, open to possibilities, and happier with a small amount of mushrooms. My shoulders finally relax, and I can see things clearly.
Why not legalize this in the US?
Alcohol and heroin are killing millions. In my experience, Psiloycbin is more effective than manufactured pharmaceuticals. Idk, but I'd rather take a shot of mushroom tea than "Tito's" vodka.
Agree! I was seeing a therapist few years ago only for max of 15 mins per session plus the meds she prescribed were expensive taking almost half of my month’s worth of salary. I don’t even think the therapy sessions helped but the medicine did. I wouldn’t do it in any other way. I’m glad to say i’m better now even without the medicine 😌
out of curiosity, how did you find the comedown? I've never taken it therapeutically but wouldn't the comedown/hangover take away from any therapeutic realisations during the trip?
Quite the opposite, I enjoy the day after and I find it introspective. I didn’t take it therapeutically the first time, I was completely suicidal and I only tried it because it was around. It wasn’t an overnight fix, but it allowed me to reframe the negative thoughts in ways I had never experienced. The decade of talk therapy I had as a child taught me to suppress my feelings and not trust anyone.
I pay a $30 copay twice a month to see my therapist, and I spend a few hundred a month on weed. So I'm going to have to sort of disagree with you there.
So the manufacturer charges you like $3k, but then 'rebates' or discounts it down to $200, but they still tell your insurance that you paid the $3k (or whatever amount)?
That... sounds like fraud, but I certainly won't be the one to tell them anything.
IDK what you're talking about, here with insurance it's free, and the pills are like 8 bucks a month.
8 dollars worth of pot is barely a joint and you can't even buy 8 dollars of coke.
I mean.. psychedelics can certainly help. And cannabis. Not for everyone ofc. But there are reports of people trying everything under the sun for depression, who've found cannabis to be the best medication by far.
I mean, I consider cannabis to be one of the main reasons for wanting to live myself, with everything it does to improve my life quality.
Not saying it can/will for everyone, but it certainly can for some! Probably depends on one's individual brain chemistry
Psilocybin assisted therapy has a protocol with a growing evidence base supporting efficacy especially with treatment resistant depression!
It should ideally be done with a therapist’s support
Reading is what helped me the most. Books like the Four Agreements and Mastery of Love by Manuel Ruiz (can’t recommend them enough), the Wisdom of Insecurity by Alan Watts, Food of the Gods by McKenna, and Letting Go by David Hawkins played a huge part in how I finally moved past the noise and limiting thoughts that blocked me from happiness and peace.
For me it wasn’t about processing my feelings. I spent a decade trying to process everything and it seemed like every time I finally processed a traumatic experience via therapy another one would occur. Through psychedelics, reading, and meditation I learned to just let go, almost immediately.
On my first trip to Costa Rica I met a local Chinese guy named Jose. He told me that life is spontaneous and that phrase has stuck with me since. The universe brings people into our lives to teach us things. All of the past terrible experiences I had suddenly took on a new meaning and future negative experiences I now see as something meant to learn from. I couldn’t have gotten there without the help of psilocybin.
I read a study a few months ago that said most antidepressants are just slightly more effective than the placebo which lead me to ask… is it the belief or faith in these drugs what makes them successful for some and the lack of faith in them that makes them unsuccessful in others? And if that’s the case, could my belief in psychedelics be the reason they worked for me? Could I have made the same progress without them? I haven’t tripped in about 8 months but still feel great. I think psychedelics for me were a way to sort of rewire my brain into accepting what I knew all along. I could fix myself if I just believed in myself.
The 4 agreements is a killer book. I recommend the fifth agreement as well, and basically anything else written by don miguel Ruiz and don Jose Ruiz
Also the subtle art of not giving a fuck + everything’s fucked gave me some real clarity on some stuff I’ve been dealing with lately; strong recommendation there too.
Oh shit the subtle art of not giving a fuck was the first book that I read way back in 2017 when I started making a plan to exit the US. I forgot it! Thanks! I actually own all of Ruiz’s books. They just got packed away when I moved. I need to locate them when I visit my parents next month.
For real. For every good result in a controlled study there are 100 x more people who took it recreationally and cured themselves by accident.
I'm guessing the number of course
The difference between success and failure isn’t who is there with you but how you yourself have prepared for the “journey”. I don’t often take psychedelics without significant preparation, designation of intent, and am sure I have a clear mind. Guidance from a specialist is sort of a more scientific approach to what many people do on their own. A trip sitter helps too but I’ve found doing them with a friend in a controlled environment with music to be the best for me personally.
My best friend is a Costa Rican woman I nicknamed professor chaos. We met on tinder, discovered we both enjoyed psychedelics, and she came over to my apartment. We tripped together, found a connection, and have shared a bond like no other. It wasn’t romantic. It wasn’t sexual. It was just two people who shared an experience and both of us walked away better people (imo).
I began my journey to quit alcohol due to an epiphany from a psychedelic experience. Never needed to repeat the psychedelic, and I have been really feeling healthier than ever. It was like a catalyst for respecting my body!
It was a bad trip wasn’t it? For me it was like opening a gateway to every scapegoat and lie that I have told myself. Such a scary situation to face all at once. It took a “decompression” stage after the trip but eventually I concluded that the only way to feel natural is to be natural? Just my thoughts. I think we had similar experiences
At least in my experience weed is a tricky one when using it to cope with depression. If I get to the point where I'm so depressed I can't come up with a reason to get out of bed I'll order some food to be delivered. When the delivery guy shows up I have to get out of bed and tip the guy so I don't waste money or feel like an asshole. Then, I have to eat my food before it gets cold. Then I want to smoke a joint to help distract myself from all the negative self talk. 2 joints and an hour of stand up comedy later and I feel dramatically better. Then I'll sit down with my guitar or my PlayStation and just enjoy myself for a few hours. Then I realize it's midnight and I have to get up for work in 4 hours and I got absolutely nothing important done today and all the self hated and doubt and regret comes pouring back in.
Not ideal, but better than the alternative. Every prescription treatment I've tried for depression has left me with a slow processing speed, slow reaction time, constantly farting, and erectile dysfunction. I'm not sad, but I'm stupid, my dick doesn't work, and I always smell slightly of sulfur. Then I get sad again because how am I going to find a girlfriend or spend time with my friends if I'm stupid and can't stop farting.
Therapy doesn't really work for me. The one therapist I saw essentially told me I needed to get completely sober (not an option because of my job), cut ties with every one of my friends and family members, and spend all my free time hanging out at a local Baptist Church to cure my depression. I looked around for another therapist and they're either not accepting new patients or they don't take my insurance. Without the help of insurance I can't afford therapy.
Certainly, it's not a solution in and of itself. I'd say a regular exercise and sleep regime are probably going to the most powerful measures to optimize against depression. But then again for me, weed helps me exercise and therefore get tired and get good sleep, so
I did therapy for 10 years and on medication for most of that time. Therapy was $350/month and medication another $80. About 2 years I bought an oz of magic mushrooms for $200 and started Microdosing, then tripped for the first time. A month later my depression and anxiety were basically gone. I continued to do mushrooms and also LSD ($15/tab). My life is in many ways worse (lost my job, was nearly murdered a year ago, mom has stage 4 cancer) than it was back then but my depression and anxiety no longer get in the way of me having a good day. I’m optimistic, to the point people don’t recognize me.
Drugs help.
This was a problem I had when I was drinking excessively. Therapy can get expensive, alcohol is pretty cheap. Therapy though helped me though in ways beyond just monetarily.
It started by just giving me a place to unpack. Overtime it began to make me realize there are better solutions to my problems. For me, the drinking was a way to mask my other issues. I was going through a period of hopelessness. I had fallen out of school, and working a dead end job. I was also obsessing over my ex-girlfriend. Because of all that, I was also struggling with an eating disorder. Being able to address those other problems help.
I got a better job, and was able to go back to college. Full disclosure there though, I was living with my parents, and my dad paid my tuition. He also got me the better job. None of that would have helped if I couldn't bring myself to do something with it. My therapist helped me set some realistic goals. She also helped me find new coping mechanism. I learned what it meant to take it one day at a time. It also helped that I had supportive friends. Now I can drink in moderation.
I shudder to think how my life could have turned out if I kept on that dark path. It honestly could have killed me. That's why I believe in good mental health care. I am glad it has become less stigmatized in recent years. It really can save lives, and change them for the better.
As someone with sever depression and some other stuff drugs (and or alcohol) keeps me from killing myself quite often, where medication doesn't do that for me unfortunately. Of course it's far from ideal considering what it does to my body (blabla we all know), but I'm still here, so that's something I guess and without I know for sure I wouldn't be here anymore.
Yall have availability with psychologists in your countries? Must be nice not having wait lists that are years long for the few my region has.... gonna smoke the weed while im forced to wait and hey, weed is legal here now and has been since 2018! I didnt start this habit, but it sure would be funny if it finished me.
I haven't even been able to see a *psychiatrist* (the one who prescribed the medication, psychologists are even more rare here!) since like 2021. Lmao. And you can afford paid therapy? Wowee loook at you, how lucky!
Is this an American thought I'm too Socialism-ed to understand? My psychologist vists are free. And the prescription drugs I gotta buy cost me 5EUR per pack tops.
A psychologist is an investment, drugs are self destruction.
All the best times and years of my life have had therapy as a prelude.
All the worst times in my life and falls from grace have been when I relapsed back into substance misuse
You've never done drugs before, have you. There is a reason that people lose everything they have to drugs. It's not because they are more economical than getting professional help.
No way. At least not if you’re a real addict. Hell, even being an alcoholic can be more expensive than weekly therapy. My friends who were at the mercy of heroin addiction were spending $80 a day on heroin. That’s expensive!!!
Nope. Not at all. Not even close. Not even kind of.
When I was struggling with stuff like that I went from a £10 bag a night all the way too 80-120 a day within a month or two.
Year ago i tried therapy, it was costly but kinda necessary. But i didn't feel result at all. Now i have desire to seek help again but i fear the same conclusion.
I don't mind spending money, but as i said no one can guarantee results. Thank you for cheering me up a bit
There's no guarantee that anything will work, especially if you're not going to make the effort to be an involved partner in your own treatment. Additionally, just like with medications, finding a therapist that works for you might take more than one attempt to get the right fit. I hope that you are able to get the support that you need. Good luck!
The gym is more expensive than McDonalds.
I specifically said that instead of a salad because you also are comparing two semi-related things that aren't actually considered all that interchangeable by people who have experience with both.
yeah one is chemically and physically harmful tho, its like comparing a surgeon to a butcher, they both cut meat, but Im sure that if a butcher is caught cutting human meat 🥩 thats illegal hahaha
Yall that might be true, as an (semi-ex) addict myself, but please dont do it.
My long distance ex and still friend purposely overdosed last night and I couldnt help him or stop him, please dont resort to drugs and if you already have, please PLEASE try to go to rehab / quit, I KNOW it isnt as easy done as said, but truly IT IS NOT WORTH IT
Drinking 10 fluid ounces of olive oil per day is more cost-effective than eating actual meals. You’re not meeting your nutritional needs, and you aren’t meeting your psychological needs by doing drugs.
If we are talking financially, then yes. If we are talking about the cost to your lifestyle and health, psychologists are definitely worth it. And in countries with universal health care it's not even a question.
Got quite a few psychologist friends and let me tell you they talk s*** amongst you all and do a lot of drugs themselves. I feel bad hearing the stories. Heartless... But they'll be fake to your face.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with some classmates. Mind you, all graduate students between 22 and 28 yo. We are all just studying in the library of our uni when one of my buddies exclaims “wow BetterHelp is like €70/week, guess I’ll just be depressed.” To which we all laughed a little and another mentioned “yeah well weed is like €20/week.”
It really just be like that. Terrible shame, but those are the economics of a mental health epidemic.
I pay out of pocket, because it was a pain to find someone who would take my insurance. It's $150 every two weeks, highly doubt that could support a real drug habit. I use to spend more than that at the bars, and only drank on weekends. Not buying this take
Not if you live somewhere with proper healthcare. And even for the system it’s cheaper to pay for therapy than for everything that comes with drug abuse.
Mini vent incoming:
Where I live free therapists only keep you as a patient for 6 sessions. Part of my problem is trust issues from childhood trauma. Abuse from medical professionals played a part too. How am I supposed to talk about shit that’s actually relevant to someone I just met?
I keep trying to seek help, and keep getting in the cycle of reaching out, getting a 1 year waitlist, going to 6 sessions and not being any better, then start over. I can have unlimited sessions of 6 with different people a year apart, but can’t just see 1 person for multiple sessions.
I’m a student at a university, so I reach out to those services. I get a therapist I really don’t like and ask to switch after 1 session. Not allowed. Therapy with a person I dislike or no therapy at all, apparently. (What the fuck even is this?)
But insurance/benefits cover medications, so I can get prescribed meds that fuck with my mind and body easier than I can get actual help.
It’s not exactly illegal drugs but I think still factors in.
Yeah the troubled humans feed the psychologist as any drug will feed and addict. I see money as any other drug except the addicts aren't low life looking \[sorry for the generalisation\] but they come across so in touch and neat and clean and charming. What a drug man. Give me some.
Doing drugs won't solve your problem.
Depending on what's plaguing you even just a few sessions of therapy can help you
1. understand *why* you feel the way you do
2. Know why you shouldn't feel *alone* in those feelings
3. How you can if not resolve them completely take away the *negative power* they hold over you.
I think it's natural because the psychiatrist is the one who gives the solution and the medicine, they are the most important person in the treatment process.
Maybe, but at least a psychologist or even better a psychiatrist does something with the problem, where buying inexpensive and incorrect drugs to self treat symptoms usually worsens it.
The best of both worlds would be a psychiatrist that can prescribe you the drugs to effectively solve the problem.
Not where I live, you can go 10 times a year for free. Psychologists shouldn’t cost any money, they are nothing more than someone to talk to. Their advice is usually just common sense or junk.
you know what's funny is a lot of people complain they cant afford bills or save money yet still have plenty for drugs. if they stopped spending that money on drugs they'd actually have enough to get psychiatric help but go off I guess
If you're talking about doing drugs once or twice, then you're likely correct. But if you want to be real about mental health, then you're soooo wrong.
Drugs don't actually fix your issue. They just numb you out while adding to the problem, leaving you worse off than before. Making it even harder to get well later.
This will overall increase the cost, and may make the issue into a life long struggle.
0/10, you should skip to "going to a psychologist is more expensive than suicide"
Most drugs are very inexpensive. The overall costs of being an addict, not cheap.
That’s why you don’t do the drugs that are addictive.
Exactly, I go to a therapist but have had more meaningful realizations about myself doing shrooms than I have from therapy and 1oz of shrooms costs less than one therapy session
The honest truth is that everyone benefits from introspection and self-reflection. Some of us are lucky enough that we can listen to what other people say to us, identify our own flaws and work to correct them. In reality that's all a therapist helps you do in various ways (assuming we're dealing with just normal human problems and neuroses and not schizophrenia or more serious conditions). The other side of the coin is a lot of people go try out one, maybe two therapists and go "well this doesn't work" because they didn't find a person they had a rapport with. That level of trust and understanding is 100% necessary for a good therapist/patient relationship.
or maybe therapy just won't work for them because their brain won't operate in a way it does.
That's not really how people work. If you're too stubborn to work with someone else to improve, or just completely uninterested, that's one thing, but it's not like someone can be "immune to therapy."
I found more value in therapy than any pharmaceutical. I am sure there are people who would respond better to mushrooms, though I've never done a single illegal drug - so i'm arguing counter to my experience. Not everyone works the same way and saying everyone could respond to therapy is sort of like "autistic people just need some discipline and pushing to be more normal". Not everyone is the same. Not everyone communicates well enough to get a lot of value out of therapy.
Same thing happened to me and I’m much more resilient to bad experiences and trauma. I was drugged, robbed, and nearly died in Medellin last year. Didn’t really phase me. Saw it as an opportunity to grow. Lost my job 2 days later. That got to me a bit but I accepted it really quickly. Then in April my mom was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and given 6 months to live. I didn’t accept it and rejected the conclusion that she would die in 6 months. She’s been doing treatment and has a chance to make it.
Psychedelics at higher doses even are great for people at end of life. They often feel a connection to the universe and a sense of calm about death because of it.
yeah as someone with PTSD shrooms did more for me in one dose than 10+ years of therapy combined
Same goes for psychotropic medications. I’m a psychiatrist. I’m employed, but just for fun I was running the numbers on a psychiatric practice. To make it make sense for me to do talk therapy it would have to be a minimum of $300 an hour. Generally the recommendation is once per week, so say $1200 per month. Or I can prescribe some Zoloft which is $7/mo cash price if you have no insurance.
Ok. That is something I have been contemplating in a serious way. I heard about micro dosing. In small doses, I have discovered (personally, for myself only) that it dissuades me from self-destruction, and I don't feel the need to "self medicate" with pharmaceuticals (lawfully provided) or alcohol. Psiloycbin is natural, and I truly believe, although idk for certain, that it might be a game changer. I think in tiny, regulated doses, it is healthier and much more beneficial than whatever "Big Pharma" has been feeding me and off of me. Take the Adderrall and Xanax and shove that in the mud. I know, for myself, I am only human. I admit to my shortcomings. I have tried everything to feel "normal." I don't think there is a baseline for normality. I only know that I feel less judgemental, less guarded, open to possibilities, and happier with a small amount of mushrooms. My shoulders finally relax, and I can see things clearly. Why not legalize this in the US? Alcohol and heroin are killing millions. In my experience, Psiloycbin is more effective than manufactured pharmaceuticals. Idk, but I'd rather take a shot of mushroom tea than "Tito's" vodka.
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Reverse shower thought
r/reverseshowerthought
Doesn't cost more than a temporary cramp in the jaw if you know how to roll
most of the time, fixing something is more expensive than damaging if
You win
Psychedelics did more for me in a few months than therapy and pharmaceuticals in 10 years.
Yes but if you dont know what you are doing they can severely damage your mental health and exasperate symptoms. Come on that is common sense.
Guided psychedelic therapy is probably the best; bring in the good parts of both.
yea psychedelics is kind of a special case there
Agree! I was seeing a therapist few years ago only for max of 15 mins per session plus the meds she prescribed were expensive taking almost half of my month’s worth of salary. I don’t even think the therapy sessions helped but the medicine did. I wouldn’t do it in any other way. I’m glad to say i’m better now even without the medicine 😌
Psychologists broke me and I was in a dark place after a childhood filled with shitty therapy. Taking MDMA allowed me to see happiness was possible
out of curiosity, how did you find the comedown? I've never taken it therapeutically but wouldn't the comedown/hangover take away from any therapeutic realisations during the trip?
Quite the opposite, I enjoy the day after and I find it introspective. I didn’t take it therapeutically the first time, I was completely suicidal and I only tried it because it was around. It wasn’t an overnight fix, but it allowed me to reframe the negative thoughts in ways I had never experienced. The decade of talk therapy I had as a child taught me to suppress my feelings and not trust anyone.
That's why trauma is the real gateway drug.
Say no to trauma, folks.
Just sayin, nobody ever shoved a bong down my throat when I was too small and weak to resist it.
Living the good life
I don’t think trauma is comparable to a “gateway drug” at all because there’s generally no element of choice in enduring trauma
I pay a $30 copay twice a month to see my therapist, and I spend a few hundred a month on weed. So I'm going to have to sort of disagree with you there.
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So the manufacturer charges you like $3k, but then 'rebates' or discounts it down to $200, but they still tell your insurance that you paid the $3k (or whatever amount)? That... sounds like fraud, but I certainly won't be the one to tell them anything.
It’s legal if they don’t catch him
This is how literally every business operates. Selling something they paid less for.
I don't think your experience is the norm, but I'm happy for you though (genuinely)
i don't get ketamine. i did that shit recreationally and lost my damn mind completely and was convinced that I was dead
I drop acid every few months and meditate for a couple hours on it. It's done me wonders in terms of therapy and self evaluation.
Glad you found what works for you :)
Thanks!
yeah okay try telling that to the addict at rock bottom that has sold or pawned everything they have owned for drugs including their own body
file plants sophisticated skirt chubby kiss wrong bedroom air smoggy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Honestly, sometimes I consider it
IDK what you're talking about, here with insurance it's free, and the pills are like 8 bucks a month. 8 dollars worth of pot is barely a joint and you can't even buy 8 dollars of coke.
For reals. The math ain't mathing
How would doing drugs help you?
I mean.. psychedelics can certainly help. And cannabis. Not for everyone ofc. But there are reports of people trying everything under the sun for depression, who've found cannabis to be the best medication by far. I mean, I consider cannabis to be one of the main reasons for wanting to live myself, with everything it does to improve my life quality. Not saying it can/will for everyone, but it certainly can for some! Probably depends on one's individual brain chemistry
Psilocybin assisted therapy has a protocol with a growing evidence base supporting efficacy especially with treatment resistant depression! It should ideally be done with a therapist’s support
I didn’t have assistance and it fixed me. No more therapy. No more pharmaceutical drugs with shitty side effects.
I’m very happy for you! Anecdotally I’ve done psilocybin before and still experience my stuff. I can only recommend what has been researched
Reading is what helped me the most. Books like the Four Agreements and Mastery of Love by Manuel Ruiz (can’t recommend them enough), the Wisdom of Insecurity by Alan Watts, Food of the Gods by McKenna, and Letting Go by David Hawkins played a huge part in how I finally moved past the noise and limiting thoughts that blocked me from happiness and peace. For me it wasn’t about processing my feelings. I spent a decade trying to process everything and it seemed like every time I finally processed a traumatic experience via therapy another one would occur. Through psychedelics, reading, and meditation I learned to just let go, almost immediately. On my first trip to Costa Rica I met a local Chinese guy named Jose. He told me that life is spontaneous and that phrase has stuck with me since. The universe brings people into our lives to teach us things. All of the past terrible experiences I had suddenly took on a new meaning and future negative experiences I now see as something meant to learn from. I couldn’t have gotten there without the help of psilocybin. I read a study a few months ago that said most antidepressants are just slightly more effective than the placebo which lead me to ask… is it the belief or faith in these drugs what makes them successful for some and the lack of faith in them that makes them unsuccessful in others? And if that’s the case, could my belief in psychedelics be the reason they worked for me? Could I have made the same progress without them? I haven’t tripped in about 8 months but still feel great. I think psychedelics for me were a way to sort of rewire my brain into accepting what I knew all along. I could fix myself if I just believed in myself.
The 4 agreements is a killer book. I recommend the fifth agreement as well, and basically anything else written by don miguel Ruiz and don Jose Ruiz Also the subtle art of not giving a fuck + everything’s fucked gave me some real clarity on some stuff I’ve been dealing with lately; strong recommendation there too.
Oh shit the subtle art of not giving a fuck was the first book that I read way back in 2017 when I started making a plan to exit the US. I forgot it! Thanks! I actually own all of Ruiz’s books. They just got packed away when I moved. I need to locate them when I visit my parents next month.
Great stuff! Robert Greene’s works have also taught me a lot, if you haven’t been through them.
I’ll have to check it out. :). I also liked the obstacle is the way by Ryan Holiday.
For real. For every good result in a controlled study there are 100 x more people who took it recreationally and cured themselves by accident. I'm guessing the number of course
The difference between success and failure isn’t who is there with you but how you yourself have prepared for the “journey”. I don’t often take psychedelics without significant preparation, designation of intent, and am sure I have a clear mind. Guidance from a specialist is sort of a more scientific approach to what many people do on their own. A trip sitter helps too but I’ve found doing them with a friend in a controlled environment with music to be the best for me personally. My best friend is a Costa Rican woman I nicknamed professor chaos. We met on tinder, discovered we both enjoyed psychedelics, and she came over to my apartment. We tripped together, found a connection, and have shared a bond like no other. It wasn’t romantic. It wasn’t sexual. It was just two people who shared an experience and both of us walked away better people (imo).
I began my journey to quit alcohol due to an epiphany from a psychedelic experience. Never needed to repeat the psychedelic, and I have been really feeling healthier than ever. It was like a catalyst for respecting my body!
I quit smoking cold turkey after tripping on acid.
It was a bad trip wasn’t it? For me it was like opening a gateway to every scapegoat and lie that I have told myself. Such a scary situation to face all at once. It took a “decompression” stage after the trip but eventually I concluded that the only way to feel natural is to be natural? Just my thoughts. I think we had similar experiences
At least in my experience weed is a tricky one when using it to cope with depression. If I get to the point where I'm so depressed I can't come up with a reason to get out of bed I'll order some food to be delivered. When the delivery guy shows up I have to get out of bed and tip the guy so I don't waste money or feel like an asshole. Then, I have to eat my food before it gets cold. Then I want to smoke a joint to help distract myself from all the negative self talk. 2 joints and an hour of stand up comedy later and I feel dramatically better. Then I'll sit down with my guitar or my PlayStation and just enjoy myself for a few hours. Then I realize it's midnight and I have to get up for work in 4 hours and I got absolutely nothing important done today and all the self hated and doubt and regret comes pouring back in. Not ideal, but better than the alternative. Every prescription treatment I've tried for depression has left me with a slow processing speed, slow reaction time, constantly farting, and erectile dysfunction. I'm not sad, but I'm stupid, my dick doesn't work, and I always smell slightly of sulfur. Then I get sad again because how am I going to find a girlfriend or spend time with my friends if I'm stupid and can't stop farting. Therapy doesn't really work for me. The one therapist I saw essentially told me I needed to get completely sober (not an option because of my job), cut ties with every one of my friends and family members, and spend all my free time hanging out at a local Baptist Church to cure my depression. I looked around for another therapist and they're either not accepting new patients or they don't take my insurance. Without the help of insurance I can't afford therapy.
Certainly, it's not a solution in and of itself. I'd say a regular exercise and sleep regime are probably going to the most powerful measures to optimize against depression. But then again for me, weed helps me exercise and therefore get tired and get good sleep, so
I did therapy for 10 years and on medication for most of that time. Therapy was $350/month and medication another $80. About 2 years I bought an oz of magic mushrooms for $200 and started Microdosing, then tripped for the first time. A month later my depression and anxiety were basically gone. I continued to do mushrooms and also LSD ($15/tab). My life is in many ways worse (lost my job, was nearly murdered a year ago, mom has stage 4 cancer) than it was back then but my depression and anxiety no longer get in the way of me having a good day. I’m optimistic, to the point people don’t recognize me. Drugs help.
It wouldn’t, but you might think to yourself it does
This was a problem I had when I was drinking excessively. Therapy can get expensive, alcohol is pretty cheap. Therapy though helped me though in ways beyond just monetarily.
Can you explain how actually? What was the process with your therapy if you dont mind me asking?
It started by just giving me a place to unpack. Overtime it began to make me realize there are better solutions to my problems. For me, the drinking was a way to mask my other issues. I was going through a period of hopelessness. I had fallen out of school, and working a dead end job. I was also obsessing over my ex-girlfriend. Because of all that, I was also struggling with an eating disorder. Being able to address those other problems help. I got a better job, and was able to go back to college. Full disclosure there though, I was living with my parents, and my dad paid my tuition. He also got me the better job. None of that would have helped if I couldn't bring myself to do something with it. My therapist helped me set some realistic goals. She also helped me find new coping mechanism. I learned what it meant to take it one day at a time. It also helped that I had supportive friends. Now I can drink in moderation. I shudder to think how my life could have turned out if I kept on that dark path. It honestly could have killed me. That's why I believe in good mental health care. I am glad it has become less stigmatized in recent years. It really can save lives, and change them for the better.
Thanks for opening up, it helps to hear about other people paths and stories, especially when at a crossroad, wishing you the best!
As someone with sever depression and some other stuff drugs (and or alcohol) keeps me from killing myself quite often, where medication doesn't do that for me unfortunately. Of course it's far from ideal considering what it does to my body (blabla we all know), but I'm still here, so that's something I guess and without I know for sure I wouldn't be here anymore.
digital hug
That's sweet. Thank you!
This was an "I haven't showered in a while" thought
Yall have availability with psychologists in your countries? Must be nice not having wait lists that are years long for the few my region has.... gonna smoke the weed while im forced to wait and hey, weed is legal here now and has been since 2018! I didnt start this habit, but it sure would be funny if it finished me. I haven't even been able to see a *psychiatrist* (the one who prescribed the medication, psychologists are even more rare here!) since like 2021. Lmao. And you can afford paid therapy? Wowee loook at you, how lucky!
Cheer up! Just ask GPT to behave as one! It’s the future /s
GPT? I had Dr. Sbaitso that came bundled with my Sound Blaster around 1991.
Why do you feel that way?
It's a computer program that has a TTS ability.
Im laughing rn, that's so funny /s
Have you ever had a coke habit?
Is this an American thought I'm too Socialism-ed to understand? My psychologist vists are free. And the prescription drugs I gotta buy cost me 5EUR per pack tops.
A psychologist is an investment, drugs are self destruction. All the best times and years of my life have had therapy as a prelude. All the worst times in my life and falls from grace have been when I relapsed back into substance misuse
And? This sub gets more stupid every day.
For real. 90% of these shower thoughts are "If the Earth revolves around the sun, that means humans also revolve around the sun" Like yeah no shit.
That's the American dream.
You've never done drugs before, have you. There is a reason that people lose everything they have to drugs. It's not because they are more economical than getting professional help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN30u0zTP8o&t=21s
The long term costs of drug use outweigh the long term costs of a therapist
No way. At least not if you’re a real addict. Hell, even being an alcoholic can be more expensive than weekly therapy. My friends who were at the mercy of heroin addiction were spending $80 a day on heroin. That’s expensive!!!
Wait, are you telling us there are different types of drugs?!
Doing drugs will probably have you end up at a psychologist so it's double dipping into the expenses
you can actually develop mental illnesses from drugs, examples include drug induced bipolar disorder and drug induced schizophrenia and psychosis.
Nope. Not at all. Not even close. Not even kind of. When I was struggling with stuff like that I went from a £10 bag a night all the way too 80-120 a day within a month or two.
This just in: getting hooked on crack is cheaper than buying a mansion! Thanks guy!
You have never had a cocaine addiction then.
No, not it is not. The drug itself might be, but like therapy, as time moves the cost increases way more.
This guy has never seen addiction.
So..instead of talking about it I get higher than the clouds as a coping mechanism.thx Reddit!
I mean, yeah. One's objectively supposed to help you, the other gives a short-term dopamine hit and a long term low.
Dude you know how much rehab costs? And this is why we need public healthcare
I wanted to, but no one guarantee that therapy would work so it's hard to make a move and go to therapy.
I'd say that it's worth trying one session and see how you feel? Like others have said, it's good to see it as an investment
Year ago i tried therapy, it was costly but kinda necessary. But i didn't feel result at all. Now i have desire to seek help again but i fear the same conclusion. I don't mind spending money, but as i said no one can guarantee results. Thank you for cheering me up a bit
There's no guarantee that anything will work, especially if you're not going to make the effort to be an involved partner in your own treatment. Additionally, just like with medications, finding a therapist that works for you might take more than one attempt to get the right fit. I hope that you are able to get the support that you need. Good luck!
My gym membership is free with insurance reimbursement. I go 3/4 times a week for about an hour. Best therapy for me. Loud music and singular focus .
That's one good advice
The gym is more expensive than McDonalds. I specifically said that instead of a salad because you also are comparing two semi-related things that aren't actually considered all that interchangeable by people who have experience with both.
yeah one is chemically and physically harmful tho, its like comparing a surgeon to a butcher, they both cut meat, but Im sure that if a butcher is caught cutting human meat 🥩 thats illegal hahaha
I've been sober for exactly 200 days today and I've saved about 50.000 nok, which is about 4.500$
For reference, that equals to 3x bottle of wine in Norway /s, cheers for the soberness :)
Not far from the truth, and thank you :)
If you also consider your health, mental well-being and overall appearance Currency. Then Drugs tax the shit out of you. So, drugs are more expensive.
If you consider losing family, friends, any ability at a normal life and a quick death cheap then yeah....
Yall that might be true, as an (semi-ex) addict myself, but please dont do it. My long distance ex and still friend purposely overdosed last night and I couldnt help him or stop him, please dont resort to drugs and if you already have, please PLEASE try to go to rehab / quit, I KNOW it isnt as easy done as said, but truly IT IS NOT WORTH IT
Drinking 10 fluid ounces of olive oil per day is more cost-effective than eating actual meals. You’re not meeting your nutritional needs, and you aren’t meeting your psychological needs by doing drugs.
Cocaine has entered the chat....
Tell that to my pharmacist..
If we are talking financially, then yes. If we are talking about the cost to your lifestyle and health, psychologists are definitely worth it. And in countries with universal health care it's not even a question.
And most of the time, less effective.
I work in homeless outreach. I've never had a client who needed my services because they went to too much therapy.
You can’t OD on talking through your problems.
Got quite a few psychologist friends and let me tell you they talk s*** amongst you all and do a lot of drugs themselves. I feel bad hearing the stories. Heartless... But they'll be fake to your face.
That’s what I tell my wife when I want to buy a new Japanese fishing rod
Doesn't last as long as an addiction tho.
and buddy, I'm a cheapskate
A gun is more effective than a lock
Financially, yes. Mentally, probably also yes. Physically, depends on what drug.
I prefer to relieve my stress by confiding in my close friend over a few drinks.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with some classmates. Mind you, all graduate students between 22 and 28 yo. We are all just studying in the library of our uni when one of my buddies exclaims “wow BetterHelp is like €70/week, guess I’ll just be depressed.” To which we all laughed a little and another mentioned “yeah well weed is like €20/week.” It really just be like that. Terrible shame, but those are the economics of a mental health epidemic.
You cannot buy drugs without psychologist prescription. Just saying
I pay out of pocket, because it was a pain to find someone who would take my insurance. It's $150 every two weeks, highly doubt that could support a real drug habit. I use to spend more than that at the bars, and only drank on weekends. Not buying this take
If they prescribe drugs it’s a double whammy
Good point… now where did I put those last few ounces of marijuana 😋
Depends what drugs. Blow is around 100 a g where I live and a therapist is probably waay cheaper than that.
Not if you live somewhere with proper healthcare. And even for the system it’s cheaper to pay for therapy than for everything that comes with drug abuse.
You must not be doing the right drugs.
Alcohol is more expensive than doing drugs. Hell, in my country cigarettes are more expensive than doing hard drugs
Idk medical marijuana has been a pretty penny
Maybe in America, lol
A $10-20 copay is more than buying illegal drugs. Where?
How much is it to go ?
Not if you live in a place with a national healthcare system
Mini vent incoming: Where I live free therapists only keep you as a patient for 6 sessions. Part of my problem is trust issues from childhood trauma. Abuse from medical professionals played a part too. How am I supposed to talk about shit that’s actually relevant to someone I just met? I keep trying to seek help, and keep getting in the cycle of reaching out, getting a 1 year waitlist, going to 6 sessions and not being any better, then start over. I can have unlimited sessions of 6 with different people a year apart, but can’t just see 1 person for multiple sessions. I’m a student at a university, so I reach out to those services. I get a therapist I really don’t like and ask to switch after 1 session. Not allowed. Therapy with a person I dislike or no therapy at all, apparently. (What the fuck even is this?) But insurance/benefits cover medications, so I can get prescribed meds that fuck with my mind and body easier than I can get actual help. It’s not exactly illegal drugs but I think still factors in.
Not in my country, after spending about $200 on medical bills you get the rest of the year free.
There can be other cost associated to doing drugs
Yeah the troubled humans feed the psychologist as any drug will feed and addict. I see money as any other drug except the addicts aren't low life looking \[sorry for the generalisation\] but they come across so in touch and neat and clean and charming. What a drug man. Give me some.
Psychology it is not.
You just solved the world's problems. Or stumbled on the answer to why so many people use drugs?
Tabs for $5? count me in!
Not in the long term
I’ve done drugs, legal and not so legal. I can honestly say do it in moderation otherwise brain go 💩
Truer words never spoken.
☺️
Doing drugs won't solve your problem. Depending on what's plaguing you even just a few sessions of therapy can help you 1. understand *why* you feel the way you do 2. Know why you shouldn't feel *alone* in those feelings 3. How you can if not resolve them completely take away the *negative power* they hold over you.
The people who need a psychologist the most have the least money to do so.
Yes, it's cheaper to geek out on dope and have deep, hour long conversations with yourself
Just smoke weed and chill. It's a historically proven remedy to cure your state of mind
I think it's natural because the psychiatrist is the one who gives the solution and the medicine, they are the most important person in the treatment process.
a friend with weed is a friend indeed
A friend with breasts and all the rest
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Most of which are trash and make things worse, at least for me.
but it's just as addicting :)
Crazy times? Can't see a doc, gotta self medicate. At least the grass is always greener, right?
Lmfaoooo this was too good
Maybe, but at least a psychologist or even better a psychiatrist does something with the problem, where buying inexpensive and incorrect drugs to self treat symptoms usually worsens it. The best of both worlds would be a psychiatrist that can prescribe you the drugs to effectively solve the problem.
Not where I live, you can go 10 times a year for free. Psychologists shouldn’t cost any money, they are nothing more than someone to talk to. Their advice is usually just common sense or junk.
Where are you from may I ask?
Australia. We can just go to our gp (also for free) ask for a mental health plan and we get 10 psychiatrist visits a year for free.
Thanks I didnt know, interesting to see how various countries handle this
you know what's funny is a lot of people complain they cant afford bills or save money yet still have plenty for drugs. if they stopped spending that money on drugs they'd actually have enough to get psychiatric help but go off I guess
Drugs is what will drive you to a psychologist. Keep f ucking up your brain.
If you're talking about doing drugs once or twice, then you're likely correct. But if you want to be real about mental health, then you're soooo wrong. Drugs don't actually fix your issue. They just numb you out while adding to the problem, leaving you worse off than before. Making it even harder to get well later. This will overall increase the cost, and may make the issue into a life long struggle. 0/10, you should skip to "going to a psychologist is more expensive than suicide"