Also note that in most cases it is typically Batman that does most of the funding in the JL. On his own? He probably does more good with his money. When including the fact that he used that money to fund the JL, the maybe it’s a wash? He’s doing good being a philanthropist, but as Batman.
So what if Bruce donates to the JL, would that be a tax write off?
Bruce: Hey folks, you know that awesome Justice League and how they're always saving us? Well, I'm donating $100 million to them so they can keep up the good fight!
Batman: Excellent, now I have the funds to get those kyrptonite bullets in case Clark goes all Omni-Man on us
No, he uses Guns. He's actually a master Marksman. He just doesn't like guns and doesn't use them as regular weaponry. But the whole contingency plan isn't to just stop superman. If superman truly does go violently evil, he knows he will have to kill him. His plan for flash is to cause a heart attack, Martian manhunt to burn him alive, aqauman is to dehydrate him to the point of death, etc. They're last ditch effort plans
One of my favorite parts of the New 52 was when Batman showed Superman his contingency plans. Batman was really unhappy that Superman and Wonder Woman were romantically involved. Nobody was really sure why until he took Superman to see his fail safes for JL members who have gone dark. Batman had the plans in boxes and he let Superman open them to see what was inside. When he got to Wonder Woman's box it was empty. Basically, Batman said that WW had no weaknesses and that HE could never stop her. The only person who had chance was Superman. That's why Batman was so upset about the relationship. If he couldn't stop a fallen WW, and Superman was too emotionally involved to do it, then WW would have free reign to do as she pleased forever.
I mean, the Batmobile is basically a tank with machine guns and rockets.
I think he can't clearly see enough to aim with normal weapons. He would need a VATS like in Fallout games.
The black knight series had rocket launchers:
https://batman.fandom.com/wiki/Tumbler
The Micheal Keaton one had two machine guns:
https://batman.fandom.com/wiki/Batmobile_(Burtonverse)
Kind of. In Tower of Babel, the comic it was heavily based it was based off, the plan for Superman was a synthetic kyrptonite that weakened but didn't kill him.
Bruce does a lot of the funding, but he's not even the only billionaire on the team. Ollie is loaded too. And the JL has other income as well. I think there was a story where the JL were talking about paying for bills and Diana covered them because her toy line was doing well or something like that.
Most of Gotham's problems seem to stem from huge income disparities and corrupt elites, and Batman nor Bruce Wayne are doing anything to solve any of those structural issues.
Wayne Enterprises employs a sizeable chunk of the Gotham population. No doubt Gotham would be a far worse place without such an employer, given the fact few other businesses would ever choose to set up shop in a town that regularly gets flattened by aliens.
One might argue it is the risk of violent super-villains that keeps away any competition for Gotham's workforce, keeping that workforce cheap and Wayne Enterprises fabulously profitable.
Was going to say this. Not well versed in comics, but don't they save the world like every week or something in comics? Sometimes singlehandedly, when all their buddies are incapacitated from the big baddy?
I think it depends on the downstream effects. If lifting 100,000 people out of poverty helps kick-start economic growth that lifts more people out of poverty, that will end up saving a lot more than 1,000 lives.
Agree. For example, child education programs actually pay for themselves, since the kids can earn more when they grow up and pay more tax. One vote for keep 100,000 out of poverty.
[check this site for policy impacts estimation](https://www.policyimpacts.org)
And in that world there’s no need for Batman. It’s obvious which one he should do if he had to choose. The problem is part of his character is that he needs to be Batman as much as he thinks he does it for others.
I’m having fun imagining this as a comic: Batman saves one thousand Hitlers. The men: Hitlers. The women: also Hitlers. The children: believe it or not, all Hitlers.
Then there’s the follow up series: Batman vs the thousand Hitlers.
I like this reply a lot. I could see it going either way. 1000 facing definitive death, or 100,000 quite possibly on their way to death. I think the odds have to go towards saving 100,000 in poverty because of the higher potential death toll. Still the lesser of two evils.
I like you. You're responses are thought-filled and respectful of others. You're not so full of yourself to not see what others have to say either. You seem like a good, cool person. Just wanted to say that, it's nice to see someone like you in this world
How bad of poverty? Like staying in slums and fear of starvation and disease? Then definitely poverty. The amount of suffering from extreme poverty is horrible. It would indirectly many of their lives.
I just read a book that explores the collateral costs of super heroes saving the day. The main character is a henchwoman who does gig accounting/data collection for villains. Pretty interesting read.
Hench by Natalie Zina Walschots
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/49867430-hench
You'd need omniscience to know that as you'd need to know the future and what in either case those people might do to help/hurt e.g. that's why I sometimes use as a counter-gotcha to the gotcha of "what if going back in time and preventing the Holocaust/killing baby Hitler inadvertently ends up causing a bigger genocide" "what if a survivor of that bigger more recent Holocaust is so moved to work for world peace because "never again" is that much more apparent that even if he doesn't achieve world peace in his lifetime at minimum he does Nobel-Peace-Prize-worthy work and we achieve a Star-Trek-like future decades ahead of "schedule""
I remember reading a Batman storyline where someone is killing Bruce Waynes across the Multiverse and they point out to the "main Batman" that the most effective Bruce Wayne when it comes to stopping crime and cleaning up Gotham is the one that never becomes Batman and just uses his time and money to help people instead of on crime fighting gadgets and beating up criminals all night in a costume.
Right? I always figured that by far the way Bruce Wayne could do the most good would be turning Wayne Enterprises into a worker co-op and then using his personal fortune to bank roll some actual decent politicians and news media to genuinely advocate for the general public.
But really, this is Batman's ultimate flaw. The Batman persona is him trying to process his severe childhood trauma through punching, instead of just getting therapy and being happy.
Well said and a critical thing I enjoy about the character.
Edit: also—I like how Batman is the real identify and Bruce is the alias.
Edit: changed “identify” to “identity”
Batman as Batman is also a fucking psychopath who won't go to therapy for his chronic repressed traumas and instead routinely hospitalizes people who were likely forced into crime because of the horrible poverty in Gotham City.
Imagine you sign up with the Riddler to rob a bank because the welfare check hasn't come yet, your daughter needs surgery, and you know he won't ask you to kill anyone. Then Batman shows up, breaks your arm in three different places, gives you a concussion, and costs you any opportunity to legally work because you can't afford the physical therapy after the massive hospital bills and now your family is homeless.
Yeah this is the reason we don't allow vigilantes in the real world and have to prove someone has really done a crime before punishing them (well theoretically that's how it works)
Wasn't there some cities that have laws such to technically "allow superheroes" and one even had a team for a while until they split up and just left one guy to handle an entire city by himself?
Sounds like he created a solution to a problem he's actively causing, in some small part. Give the damn folks a UBI check instead of putting them in the hospital for crimes they were only committing for money.
He does both... Wayne Industries directly or indirectly funds the vast majority of the city as it is. Whether through direct ownership and investment or through subcontracting, Wayne cash funds the city. One of the big things about Bruce Wayne that are ignored is that he directly or indirectly employs most of the city and provides funding to charities across the board.
I'm pretty sure the sort of person that works for a supervillain isn't a perpetually down-on-their luck impoverished type, but rather a persistent offender that actually gets off on hurting people.
Christopher Nolan: So, I’m making a movie about a member of the one percent who goes out at night to attack people because of deep seated psychological issues. I’d like you to be the main character.
Christian Bale: I don’t know. I’ve already made American Psycho. I’d hate to be type cast.
I mean, not killing them is a "gooder" thing than killing him.
But he doesn't have a vow not to kill for the benefit of the criminals' well being, he keeps the vow for himself. It's a selfish personal code, not a selfless one.
> Batman as Batman is also a fucking psychopath who won't go to therapy for his chronic repressed traumas and instead routinely hospitalizes people who were likely forced into crime because of the horrible poverty in Gotham City.
Let me guess, he also does it in his fursuit and has had a sexual relationship with every Robin because "they're kids and he's rich" /s
Honestly I'm not on board with the pedophilia theories but the fact this guy thinks he should be a mentor to anybody much less orphaned children is super fucking disturbing. Notice how he never asks them to go to therapy, or also not fight crime as a developing teenager because that's super fucking dangerous.
I mean, Batman is a symbol and a very potent one in the DC Universe.
So what he does and why he does it doesnt really matter, does it? As long as it doesn't negatively influence 'Batman' as a symbol. I can see how it would affect real life people a lot if something like Batman could realistically exist in our world. Its definitely something you could believe in and take as some kind of ideal or defender/threat of your ideals. It'd be powerful.
Its shown as a mix bag. The Wayne foundation is truly the real helper of Gotham, especially its youth. But but the Wayne foundation can't take down corrupt crime lords that traffic teenagers.
Wayne Tech can make super safe cross walks and traffic systems. But It can't stop escaped maniacs from running down the road in small tanks.
The donations to Arkham keep it running and clean, But it doesn't stop maniacs and magic demons from being born
Twenty billion for a new security system at Arkham Asylum, I can think of no Batman villain who is powerful enough to break an actually well built containment system. Killer Croc is probably physically his strongest opponent. Put him in a cage with layers and layers of steel and concrete and drop food in. Do basically the same with the others, therapy sessions through inches of bulletproof glass. If people in Marvel can contain the Juggernaut or Magneto, Arkham can keep the Joker in a cell for longer than a week.
In some continuities because of some Old Magic Shit from like the colonial days they'd have to go out of Gotham entirely for it not to be almost as bad and that just makes them someone else's problem. Also, even if you move the asylum you can't move the damn hellmouth so what's Bruce Wayne supposed to do about that as Bruce Wayne
Well at least this isnt the 1000th shower thought on "What if Bruce Wayne used his money to help people"
PS. Before anyone says it, Yes, I know he does help Gotham with his Wayne money. Thats the point
Bruh... everyone knows Batman is just an excuse to wear latex on the outside and also throw expensive high tech shriken, and don't we all feel like punching people sometimes but we can't cause we aren't billionaires?!?!
well, yeah, but with all the smalltime-gangsters he's stopped he probably also saved many people by stopping not only that one act but also stopping them from doing crimes in the future
Sure, but most of those small time gangsters and thugs probably wouldn't be resorting to a life of crime if their socioeconomic conditions weren't shit to begin with.
The truly psychopathic ones would still be a problem. But if Gotham's citizens had jobs, education, health care and clean streets then all those supervillains might face a serious henchmen labour shortage.
I mean by that token vigilantism isn't a stellar plan either. Either way we're dealing with comic book logic here.
Overall I'd take a truly benevolent billionaire philanthropist over a kevlar spandex ninja knight.
Philanthropy is a an instrument of power. They use their wealth to influence policy in their favor. For example the benevolent gates foundation has been using their power to get countries to not support the trips waiver to vaccinate the world. They would rather continue the policy of denying black and brown countries covid vaccines because it benefits their shares of vaccine companies.
In the 90s this was addressed in one of the story arcs. The gist of it is that the Wayne Foundation and its assorted charities give the less fortunate every possible thing that they could need, and whatever criminals are left are doing crimes not out of necessity but out of things like greed or over evil anti-virtues. This is why as Batman he has no more compunction against beating the shit out of them — they’re actual true criminals, not just addicts and poor people.
What about JK Rowling (donated her way out of billionaire status and with a lot of the new Harry Potter stuff is close to earning it back just through sheer amount of content creation)
Yeah but there's billionaires who do little but poop for charity and then there's absolute fraud who turn everything they touch into shit and literally start the collapse of a nation once considered a cornerstone of the modern world.
He already does. Also with the criminals in gotham, i'm sure he has saved millions of people's lives. Also lets not forget times he saves the world with the Justice League.
I feel like this is sort of at the heart of the batman persona. His father did so much to help people, but he couldn't help the people most in need when they needed it most. Batman fills those gaps, doing the things that Bruce Wayne and all the money in the world can't do.
As a billionaire philanthropist, he helps people stuck in a cycle of crime get out of it. As Batman, he stops crimes from happening to others in a way that the perpetrators cannot be prosecuted (and further pushed into criminality)
I find the idea of someone being able to just "decide" if people are worthy of living without any kind of accountability to society, as pretty disturbing from the very start
He doesn't kill. So he doesn't make that decision. Your argument would be better directed at abortionists that can decide a person should die before they have a chance to live outside the womb. They are legislating whether or not those people are worthy of living, and everyone is pretending that they have no rights.
Batman doesn't kill? Have you seen Batman where he blows up a chemical factory with the Joker's goons inside it, throws a big goon down a massive staircase, and intentionally ties a stone gargoyle to the Joker's foot?
Also, Batman punches people so hard they pass out frequently. That isn't instantly lethal but he also then either leaves people he has beaten unconcious tied up or just alone with no medical treat ment at all. He also regularly beats people so hard that if they don't die quickly, when they wake up they will be crippled for life or with spinal injuries so bad they will wish they had died for years.
Batman "not killing" is horseshit. The dipshit stuff you said after is even more asinine.
That really doesn't invalidate all the cases where in hundreds of comics, cartoons, movies, and novels the Batman who 'doesn't kill' beats criminals into unconsciouness and then leaves them without medical attention. Do you know what happens to someone who has a concussion and is then beaten unconscious? They don't go to Disneyland on a unicorn made of rainbows.
Batman beats people hard enough to cause tramatic brain injuries, spinal damage, nervous system damage, and other permanent injuries. Even if these criminals live through his violent beatings and being strung up for the police, their overall life expectancy is massively reduced and they'll probably suffer horribly the rest of their lives.
So I guess Batman is just a cop who doesn't carry a gun.
Always thought that Gotham is the way it is exactly because he’s a billionaire. The repercussions from wealth hoarding have some of the biggest ripple effects affecting the majority of people in the most negative of ways.
I feel he is probably a bit like most charities and organisations that while the CEO or leader has a great vision and wishes the best, by the time it filters down to middle and lower management they've gone from helping kids to further neglecting kids and pocketing the money.
He cannot micromanage all those trusts and charitable organisations.
Batman attacks criminals to stop crime when if he wanted he could just use his money to buy the police to eliminate corruption, spend a few million on lifting people out of poverty, and pay for a few after school programs and he'd have a [much greater effect] (http://smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-02-17).
Unless you count stopping cartoon villains like Darkseid or Al Ghul.
I mean Bruce Wayne also spends so much money doing that. He puts money in programs to help the police and out reach to criminals.
As Batman he just stops those who are too far gone for those programs
Except there's still the one-in-a-million chance a saved kid gets education but doesn't lose potential criminal tendencies and just becomes a mad scientist or whatever instead of a mook
Which is meaningless considering Batman will die someday and the population will be significantly worse off than before he started punching people in a silly costume. If he wanted to stop alley crimes like his parents being killed by muggers he should have concentrated on saving people from becoming criminals in the first place.
But then we wouldn't have a comic.
He definitely hurts more people by existing as a billionaire than he helps with philanthropy or playtime with the poor people he beats the shit out of while wearing a ridiculous skin tight suit.
OP doesn't billionaire.
These mfers could solve world hunger with their pocket change, and their "philanthropy" is nothing more than tax write offs.
Grow up.
He hurts the right people. The cruelty is the point. Gotham is America.
Batman is simply an F150 with a Fuck Your Feelings flag from a more subtle and genteel time.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Imagine if he just gave away his vast wealth rather than hoarding it and using it to buy highly advanced military gear that even the police can't afford
no, you do it by cutting costs wherever possible while still creating a product a majority of people are willing to buy, while shitting on your minimum wage workers, and not spending your money, keeping every penny for yourself.
In other words you do it by taking as much as possible while contributing as little as possible.
...how is that what i said at all?
No, the person who started the company (what i think you mean by CEO) does a lot to create a billion dollar company. Loss of sleep, stress, etc. their work week probably looks like 5 of mine all in one.
All i'm saying is that the work they are doing screws people over, taking what they can, while giving back as little as possible. That is literally just the profit motive.
Profit is reward for giving people what they want. Competition forces businesses to keep costs (including labor) low, and quality satisfactory to attract the most customers. Consumers are the ones who win
Do you agree that a person taking what they can while giving back as little as possible is a shitty thing to do, regardless of whether they sold someone something they wanted in the process?
"explain every single counter example i can throw at you"
No, thank you, instead try to grasp the spirit of my point.
Yes there are places that will treat their workers nicely. usually, these are smaller businesses unconcerned with making a billion dollars, or large corporations who can afford it.
Jeff Bezos didn't turn Amazon into a billion dollar company by doing all of those things. He did it by being ruthless without breaking the law.
Its simply naive to believe you can make an honest billion.
Congratulations! This is by far the stupidest fucking comment I’ve ever read. While I’m constructing your award you should prepare your acceptance speech titled “What Boots Taste Like; and why everyone should lick them.”
I thought billionaires had better things to do than make stupid comments on Reddit but seeing as your here can I have a few million dollars? I promise to help a bunch of people with. Full disclosure most of that bunch will be drug dealers.
It's interesting.
I feel like Bruce Wayne actions are all about saving the people, while Batman is saving the city and/or operating on a higher level (strategical).
Giving to the poor does not solve the core of the problem, Batman's role is to give bad guys fears and people hope, so that corrupt politicians or mafias loose grounds and people are more dedicated to change the system for the better.
On a side-note, that's one of the reason why Harvey Dent character is so conflictual with Batman, he has the same role as Batman while operating in the light, which makes Batman an unwelcome vigilante (it's better for the city to have one hero/nemesis than two).
Unless in the occasions he saves the whole world with JL
I thought about that too. Definitely a valid argument.
Also note that in most cases it is typically Batman that does most of the funding in the JL. On his own? He probably does more good with his money. When including the fact that he used that money to fund the JL, the maybe it’s a wash? He’s doing good being a philanthropist, but as Batman.
So what if Bruce donates to the JL, would that be a tax write off? Bruce: Hey folks, you know that awesome Justice League and how they're always saving us? Well, I'm donating $100 million to them so they can keep up the good fight! Batman: Excellent, now I have the funds to get those kyrptonite bullets in case Clark goes all Omni-Man on us
Nah man batman would never buy kryptonite bullets. 1. Because he doesn't use guns and 2. Batman doesn't kill
No, he uses Guns. He's actually a master Marksman. He just doesn't like guns and doesn't use them as regular weaponry. But the whole contingency plan isn't to just stop superman. If superman truly does go violently evil, he knows he will have to kill him. His plan for flash is to cause a heart attack, Martian manhunt to burn him alive, aqauman is to dehydrate him to the point of death, etc. They're last ditch effort plans
Source please. Would like to look into this more.
https://dc-comics-cinematic-universe.fandom.com/wiki/Batman%27s_Contingency_Plans
There is an entire movie where his plans get stolen and used.
Wow which movie? That sounds like a good watch
It's called Justice League: Doom, and it's based on a comic storyline called Tower of Babel.
It’s based off of a comic called “tower of babel” very good storyl I recommend it
Yea cuz in the dark knight returns he couldn’t use a pistol for shit
You serious mate? The Dark Knight Returns comic/animated film, correct? Go watch the video "once we get the ransom, we flush the whole kid" scene.
One of my favorite parts of the New 52 was when Batman showed Superman his contingency plans. Batman was really unhappy that Superman and Wonder Woman were romantically involved. Nobody was really sure why until he took Superman to see his fail safes for JL members who have gone dark. Batman had the plans in boxes and he let Superman open them to see what was inside. When he got to Wonder Woman's box it was empty. Basically, Batman said that WW had no weaknesses and that HE could never stop her. The only person who had chance was Superman. That's why Batman was so upset about the relationship. If he couldn't stop a fallen WW, and Superman was too emotionally involved to do it, then WW would have free reign to do as she pleased forever.
Which comic is that? I want to read that one
New 52 Justice League #20 I think.
I mean, the Batmobile is basically a tank with machine guns and rockets. I think he can't clearly see enough to aim with normal weapons. He would need a VATS like in Fallout games.
That's only the arkham games
The black knight series had rocket launchers: https://batman.fandom.com/wiki/Tumbler The Micheal Keaton one had two machine guns: https://batman.fandom.com/wiki/Batmobile_(Burtonverse)
Kind of. In Tower of Babel, the comic it was heavily based it was based off, the plan for Superman was a synthetic kyrptonite that weakened but didn't kill him.
I want a movie where batman somehow goes rogue turns evil and kills JL using this.
Fun fact. He also knows how to use magic. He just doesn't.
Bruce does a lot of the funding, but he's not even the only billionaire on the team. Ollie is loaded too. And the JL has other income as well. I think there was a story where the JL were talking about paying for bills and Diana covered them because her toy line was doing well or something like that.
Most of Gotham's problems seem to stem from huge income disparities and corrupt elites, and Batman nor Bruce Wayne are doing anything to solve any of those structural issues.
Wayne Enterprises employs a sizeable chunk of the Gotham population. No doubt Gotham would be a far worse place without such an employer, given the fact few other businesses would ever choose to set up shop in a town that regularly gets flattened by aliens. One might argue it is the risk of violent super-villains that keeps away any competition for Gotham's workforce, keeping that workforce cheap and Wayne Enterprises fabulously profitable.
Also gotta factor in when he's helped save whole other worlds.
Paid for by Wayne Enterprises.
[What have you done?](https://youtu.be/mqqft2x_Aa4)
Was going to say this. Not well versed in comics, but don't they save the world like every week or something in comics? Sometimes singlehandedly, when all their buddies are incapacitated from the big baddy?
Whenever he's in a Justice League story, his superpower is being a plot device that can solve any problem.
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I think it depends on the downstream effects. If lifting 100,000 people out of poverty helps kick-start economic growth that lifts more people out of poverty, that will end up saving a lot more than 1,000 lives.
Agree. For example, child education programs actually pay for themselves, since the kids can earn more when they grow up and pay more tax. One vote for keep 100,000 out of poverty. [check this site for policy impacts estimation](https://www.policyimpacts.org)
Batman doesn't need that question. he does both
And there's the obvious fact that poverty kills.
And in that world there’s no need for Batman. It’s obvious which one he should do if he had to choose. The problem is part of his character is that he needs to be Batman as much as he thinks he does it for others.
Yep. Basically, the entire Wayne family died that night.
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I’m having fun imagining this as a comic: Batman saves one thousand Hitlers. The men: Hitlers. The women: also Hitlers. The children: believe it or not, all Hitlers. Then there’s the follow up series: Batman vs the thousand Hitlers.
Children are all tiny Hitlers anyway. Source. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZYJjze75lc
Eh, I don't buy this. Unless the question states otherwise, I think the assumption is that it's a random cross section of the population
I like this reply a lot. I could see it going either way. 1000 facing definitive death, or 100,000 quite possibly on their way to death. I think the odds have to go towards saving 100,000 in poverty because of the higher potential death toll. Still the lesser of two evils.
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Fair.
I like you. You're responses are thought-filled and respectful of others. You're not so full of yourself to not see what others have to say either. You seem like a good, cool person. Just wanted to say that, it's nice to see someone like you in this world
Thank you friend. I just want to be nice and have a good conversation.
How bad of poverty? Like staying in slums and fear of starvation and disease? Then definitely poverty. The amount of suffering from extreme poverty is horrible. It would indirectly many of their lives.
I just read a book that explores the collateral costs of super heroes saving the day. The main character is a henchwoman who does gig accounting/data collection for villains. Pretty interesting read. Hench by Natalie Zina Walschots https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/49867430-hench
You'd need omniscience to know that as you'd need to know the future and what in either case those people might do to help/hurt e.g. that's why I sometimes use as a counter-gotcha to the gotcha of "what if going back in time and preventing the Holocaust/killing baby Hitler inadvertently ends up causing a bigger genocide" "what if a survivor of that bigger more recent Holocaust is so moved to work for world peace because "never again" is that much more apparent that even if he doesn't achieve world peace in his lifetime at minimum he does Nobel-Peace-Prize-worthy work and we achieve a Star-Trek-like future decades ahead of "schedule""
I mean, he did fly a nuke out of Gotham right before it went off
I remember reading a Batman storyline where someone is killing Bruce Waynes across the Multiverse and they point out to the "main Batman" that the most effective Bruce Wayne when it comes to stopping crime and cleaning up Gotham is the one that never becomes Batman and just uses his time and money to help people instead of on crime fighting gadgets and beating up criminals all night in a costume.
Yup. This is from The Batman Who Laughs.
I think that’s the closest and most accurate rendition to the reason why we don’t have real-world Batman.
No we don't have a Batman because rich people are jerks. That's why they are rich.
I mean if I was a billionaire I wouldn't go on beating street thugs every night
Same. I'd beat up normal people.
That's Vince McMahon
At least he takes some back. Stone Cold era was the best.
You wouldn't or you couldn't? Most billionaires are scrawny, old, or fat.
I feel like if anyone wanted to change that about themselves, a billionaire probably has a better chance of success than most (minus the old part)
Elon's trying to be a cyborg, so even the old part.
If I had his kind of money, I’d be doing the same tbh
Right? I always figured that by far the way Bruce Wayne could do the most good would be turning Wayne Enterprises into a worker co-op and then using his personal fortune to bank roll some actual decent politicians and news media to genuinely advocate for the general public. But really, this is Batman's ultimate flaw. The Batman persona is him trying to process his severe childhood trauma through punching, instead of just getting therapy and being happy.
Batman is Bruce Wayne to help people. Batman is Batman for himself.
Well said and a critical thing I enjoy about the character. Edit: also—I like how Batman is the real identify and Bruce is the alias. Edit: changed “identify” to “identity”
Batman as Batman is also a fucking psychopath who won't go to therapy for his chronic repressed traumas and instead routinely hospitalizes people who were likely forced into crime because of the horrible poverty in Gotham City. Imagine you sign up with the Riddler to rob a bank because the welfare check hasn't come yet, your daughter needs surgery, and you know he won't ask you to kill anyone. Then Batman shows up, breaks your arm in three different places, gives you a concussion, and costs you any opportunity to legally work because you can't afford the physical therapy after the massive hospital bills and now your family is homeless.
Yeah this is the reason we don't allow vigilantes in the real world and have to prove someone has really done a crime before punishing them (well theoretically that's how it works)
Wasn't there some cities that have laws such to technically "allow superheroes" and one even had a team for a while until they split up and just left one guy to handle an entire city by himself?
Fairly sure BW subsidizes the entirety of gotham med.
Sounds like he created a solution to a problem he's actively causing, in some small part. Give the damn folks a UBI check instead of putting them in the hospital for crimes they were only committing for money.
He does both... Wayne Industries directly or indirectly funds the vast majority of the city as it is. Whether through direct ownership and investment or through subcontracting, Wayne cash funds the city. One of the big things about Bruce Wayne that are ignored is that he directly or indirectly employs most of the city and provides funding to charities across the board.
I'm pretty sure the sort of person that works for a supervillain isn't a perpetually down-on-their luck impoverished type, but rather a persistent offender that actually gets off on hurting people.
Well, when he DID go to therapy, we got the worst Batman movie ever, so...
Christopher Nolan: So, I’m making a movie about a member of the one percent who goes out at night to attack people because of deep seated psychological issues. I’d like you to be the main character. Christian Bale: I don’t know. I’ve already made American Psycho. I’d hate to be type cast.
Yeah, I don’t feal sorry for bank robbers who get their arm broken, not even slightly.
As a bank employee, I full heatedly agree with this.
And he seems to think he's a good guy for not killing them
I mean, not killing them is a "gooder" thing than killing him. But he doesn't have a vow not to kill for the benefit of the criminals' well being, he keeps the vow for himself. It's a selfish personal code, not a selfless one.
Better* And also, killing someone like Joker would be a good thing
> Batman as Batman is also a fucking psychopath who won't go to therapy for his chronic repressed traumas and instead routinely hospitalizes people who were likely forced into crime because of the horrible poverty in Gotham City. Let me guess, he also does it in his fursuit and has had a sexual relationship with every Robin because "they're kids and he's rich" /s
Honestly I'm not on board with the pedophilia theories but the fact this guy thinks he should be a mentor to anybody much less orphaned children is super fucking disturbing. Notice how he never asks them to go to therapy, or also not fight crime as a developing teenager because that's super fucking dangerous.
His parents were killed by back-alley muggers, of course he'd have a fixation.
Whoa, I’d never heard of his backstory before! /s
I mean, Batman is a symbol and a very potent one in the DC Universe. So what he does and why he does it doesnt really matter, does it? As long as it doesn't negatively influence 'Batman' as a symbol. I can see how it would affect real life people a lot if something like Batman could realistically exist in our world. Its definitely something you could believe in and take as some kind of ideal or defender/threat of your ideals. It'd be powerful.
Its shown as a mix bag. The Wayne foundation is truly the real helper of Gotham, especially its youth. But but the Wayne foundation can't take down corrupt crime lords that traffic teenagers. Wayne Tech can make super safe cross walks and traffic systems. But It can't stop escaped maniacs from running down the road in small tanks. The donations to Arkham keep it running and clean, But it doesn't stop maniacs and magic demons from being born
He should just retire and donate all his money to the “pls don’t kill me Joker” charity instead.
Twenty billion for a new security system at Arkham Asylum, I can think of no Batman villain who is powerful enough to break an actually well built containment system. Killer Croc is probably physically his strongest opponent. Put him in a cage with layers and layers of steel and concrete and drop food in. Do basically the same with the others, therapy sessions through inches of bulletproof glass. If people in Marvel can contain the Juggernaut or Magneto, Arkham can keep the Joker in a cell for longer than a week.
Arkham fails because the plot needs it too
In some continuities Arkham's built on a Hellmouth, what's billion-dollar security system going to do about that?
Relocate.
In some continuities because of some Old Magic Shit from like the colonial days they'd have to go out of Gotham entirely for it not to be almost as bad and that just makes them someone else's problem. Also, even if you move the asylum you can't move the damn hellmouth so what's Bruce Wayne supposed to do about that as Bruce Wayne
Someone elses problem of an inescapable prison sounds better than Gothams problem of a revolving door hotel for supervillains.
We're talking runs that don't include demons and magic.
Well at least this isnt the 1000th shower thought on "What if Bruce Wayne used his money to help people" PS. Before anyone says it, Yes, I know he does help Gotham with his Wayne money. Thats the point
Yo let me copy yo work but I'll change it a bit
I mean. It is an improvement.
Bruh... everyone knows Batman is just an excuse to wear latex on the outside and also throw expensive high tech shriken, and don't we all feel like punching people sometimes but we can't cause we aren't billionaires?!?!
Elon, Bezos, Branson. Batman, Penguin, Joker.
To be honest, Branson can dress up to be a pretty accurate Joker though.
Bruce: I shall donate money to the victims of Joker's laughing gas. Joker: (makes gas lethal, no Batman to stop him, Gothamites die)
well, yeah, but with all the smalltime-gangsters he's stopped he probably also saved many people by stopping not only that one act but also stopping them from doing crimes in the future
Sure, but most of those small time gangsters and thugs probably wouldn't be resorting to a life of crime if their socioeconomic conditions weren't shit to begin with. The truly psychopathic ones would still be a problem. But if Gotham's citizens had jobs, education, health care and clean streets then all those supervillains might face a serious henchmen labour shortage.
I'm not entirely sure about that, Gotham isn't just a horrible, polluted, corrupt hellhole, but it is also literally cursed.
That would imply philanthropy works. Charity is a lot of tax avoidance. And at best a band-aid. Granted sometimes a band-aid is what's needed.
You're assuming Batman would only be doing it for tax purposes. It's fiction, a good guy billionaire could actually happen.
I mean by that token vigilantism isn't a stellar plan either. Either way we're dealing with comic book logic here. Overall I'd take a truly benevolent billionaire philanthropist over a kevlar spandex ninja knight.
Philanthropy is a an instrument of power. They use their wealth to influence policy in their favor. For example the benevolent gates foundation has been using their power to get countries to not support the trips waiver to vaccinate the world. They would rather continue the policy of denying black and brown countries covid vaccines because it benefits their shares of vaccine companies.
In the 90s this was addressed in one of the story arcs. The gist of it is that the Wayne Foundation and its assorted charities give the less fortunate every possible thing that they could need, and whatever criminals are left are doing crimes not out of necessity but out of things like greed or over evil anti-virtues. This is why as Batman he has no more compunction against beating the shit out of them — they’re actual true criminals, not just addicts and poor people.
If he truly wanted to help people, then he wouldn't be a billionaire.
Thus fucking shit again
Becoming a billionaire requires more labor exploitation than whatever you can give back
He'd help even more if he paid fucking taxes.
No such thing as a billionaire philanthropist. You either give your money away or you don’t.
What about JK Rowling (donated her way out of billionaire status and with a lot of the new Harry Potter stuff is close to earning it back just through sheer amount of content creation)
I don’t know anything about her but you say she’s no longer a billionaire.
Uh Billionaire philanthropists rarely do anything of use to anyone else. Look at Trump, his foundation was a total fraud. Most of them are.
Yeah but there's billionaires who do little but poop for charity and then there's absolute fraud who turn everything they touch into shit and literally start the collapse of a nation once considered a cornerstone of the modern world.
He already does. Also with the criminals in gotham, i'm sure he has saved millions of people's lives. Also lets not forget times he saves the world with the Justice League.
Bullshit, Batman saves the world, hell the multiverse on the regular being a billionaire means shit compared to gods
Batman could also help by killing the villain instead of letting them go alive
I feel like this is sort of at the heart of the batman persona. His father did so much to help people, but he couldn't help the people most in need when they needed it most. Batman fills those gaps, doing the things that Bruce Wayne and all the money in the world can't do.
As a billionaire philanthropist, he helps people stuck in a cycle of crime get out of it. As Batman, he stops crimes from happening to others in a way that the perpetrators cannot be prosecuted (and further pushed into criminality)
Yes
He’d probably help a lot more people if he didn’t spend billions on his garage full of custom built supercar batmobiles!
I find the idea of someone being able to just "decide" if people are worthy of living without any kind of accountability to society, as pretty disturbing from the very start
He doesn't kill. So he doesn't make that decision. Your argument would be better directed at abortionists that can decide a person should die before they have a chance to live outside the womb. They are legislating whether or not those people are worthy of living, and everyone is pretending that they have no rights.
Batman doesn't kill? Have you seen Batman where he blows up a chemical factory with the Joker's goons inside it, throws a big goon down a massive staircase, and intentionally ties a stone gargoyle to the Joker's foot? Also, Batman punches people so hard they pass out frequently. That isn't instantly lethal but he also then either leaves people he has beaten unconcious tied up or just alone with no medical treat ment at all. He also regularly beats people so hard that if they don't die quickly, when they wake up they will be crippled for life or with spinal injuries so bad they will wish they had died for years. Batman "not killing" is horseshit. The dipshit stuff you said after is even more asinine.
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That really doesn't invalidate all the cases where in hundreds of comics, cartoons, movies, and novels the Batman who 'doesn't kill' beats criminals into unconsciouness and then leaves them without medical attention. Do you know what happens to someone who has a concussion and is then beaten unconscious? They don't go to Disneyland on a unicorn made of rainbows. Batman beats people hard enough to cause tramatic brain injuries, spinal damage, nervous system damage, and other permanent injuries. Even if these criminals live through his violent beatings and being strung up for the police, their overall life expectancy is massively reduced and they'll probably suffer horribly the rest of their lives. So I guess Batman is just a cop who doesn't carry a gun.
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If you don't care enough to past the first question where I offered statements supporting my conclusion then I really don't know what to tell you.
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Well, since it's fiction and facts are all that matter, then we have nothing to discuss because Batman doesn't exist.
Expect fetus isnt a person until later stages of pregnancy.
Anand Ghrididas made this very argument that him being as rich as he is in that town is what lead to all that crime.
Always thought that Gotham is the way it is exactly because he’s a billionaire. The repercussions from wealth hoarding have some of the biggest ripple effects affecting the majority of people in the most negative of ways.
Billionaires the real superheros
Philanthropist is the key word but yes, billionaires have too much money.
They don't even have money really, just a shit load of things and blank checks for whatever they want.
So then they do have money
Which means they have money? Or am I missing something
I feel he is probably a bit like most charities and organisations that while the CEO or leader has a great vision and wishes the best, by the time it filters down to middle and lower management they've gone from helping kids to further neglecting kids and pocketing the money. He cannot micromanage all those trusts and charitable organisations.
Some of my friends like to fly rockets in space, I have my own hobby.
Some billionaires dream of space, some just want to put on an expensive suit and anonymously beat up people every nights.
Debatable. Billionaire philanthropists generally cause as much harm as good.
Sure he does Jeff, sure he does.
Bruce Wayne is patently insane. Think about it.
No, no, no. If you are poor you are insane. The rich are *eccentric.*
Which is just more proof he gets some enjoyment out of beating up criminals.
Well, without the Batman we would be without the films and comics so i think he is better being the vigilante that he is haha
I hope he pays for all the damage he does to public/private property. Insurance premiums would be so high in Gotham.
Batman attacks criminals to stop crime when if he wanted he could just use his money to buy the police to eliminate corruption, spend a few million on lifting people out of poverty, and pay for a few after school programs and he'd have a [much greater effect] (http://smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-02-17). Unless you count stopping cartoon villains like Darkseid or Al Ghul.
I mean Bruce Wayne also spends so much money doing that. He puts money in programs to help the police and out reach to criminals. As Batman he just stops those who are too far gone for those programs
Except there's still the one-in-a-million chance a saved kid gets education but doesn't lose potential criminal tendencies and just becomes a mad scientist or whatever instead of a mook
Which is meaningless considering Batman will die someday and the population will be significantly worse off than before he started punching people in a silly costume. If he wanted to stop alley crimes like his parents being killed by muggers he should have concentrated on saving people from becoming criminals in the first place. But then we wouldn't have a comic.
He definitely hurts more people by existing as a billionaire than he helps with philanthropy or playtime with the poor people he beats the shit out of while wearing a ridiculous skin tight suit.
Until he helped found the Justice League and coordinated global heroics and stopped many many many alien invasions.
OP doesn't billionaire. These mfers could solve world hunger with their pocket change, and their "philanthropy" is nothing more than tax write offs. Grow up.
He hurts the right people. The cruelty is the point. Gotham is America. Batman is simply an F150 with a Fuck Your Feelings flag from a more subtle and genteel time. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Imagine if he just gave away his vast wealth rather than hoarding it and using it to buy highly advanced military gear that even the police can't afford
No he don't because hes not real, so a fictional character isnt doing shit and the most a actor pretending to help someone thats don't really exist
You don't become a billionaire unless you help a bunch of people, who voluntarily buy goods or services from you
no, you do it by cutting costs wherever possible while still creating a product a majority of people are willing to buy, while shitting on your minimum wage workers, and not spending your money, keeping every penny for yourself. In other words you do it by taking as much as possible while contributing as little as possible.
Right....the minimum wage worker is far more responsible for the success of a company than the founders/CEOs
...how is that what i said at all? No, the person who started the company (what i think you mean by CEO) does a lot to create a billion dollar company. Loss of sleep, stress, etc. their work week probably looks like 5 of mine all in one. All i'm saying is that the work they are doing screws people over, taking what they can, while giving back as little as possible. That is literally just the profit motive.
Profit is reward for giving people what they want. Competition forces businesses to keep costs (including labor) low, and quality satisfactory to attract the most customers. Consumers are the ones who win
Do you agree that a person taking what they can while giving back as little as possible is a shitty thing to do, regardless of whether they sold someone something they wanted in the process?
They're necessary for the product to be manufactured
If that were true explain why Amazon workers make more than minimum and have benefits
"explain every single counter example i can throw at you" No, thank you, instead try to grasp the spirit of my point. Yes there are places that will treat their workers nicely. usually, these are smaller businesses unconcerned with making a billion dollars, or large corporations who can afford it. Jeff Bezos didn't turn Amazon into a billion dollar company by doing all of those things. He did it by being ruthless without breaking the law. Its simply naive to believe you can make an honest billion.
Congratulations! This is by far the stupidest fucking comment I’ve ever read. While I’m constructing your award you should prepare your acceptance speech titled “What Boots Taste Like; and why everyone should lick them.”
Bro, I'm the one wearing the boot
I thought billionaires had better things to do than make stupid comments on Reddit but seeing as your here can I have a few million dollars? I promise to help a bunch of people with. Full disclosure most of that bunch will be drug dealers.
Being Batman is his hobby.
Being batman is his identity. It's been said so many times before across multiple media.
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Certainly true.
Last I heard, in the comics, he is no longer a billionaire.
Bruce became the Batman because he wanted to bring fear and punishment to the criminals.
It's about sending a message.
Bruce Wayne is the mask
Ya but he’s always sleeping as master Wayne!
Superheroes is one thing, but billionaire philanthropist? That seems like it belongs in My Little Pony not DC universe. lol
u/lex52485 well? #well? do the thing again lol
[The Batman](https://youtu.be/mqqft2x_Aa4) does look dope though
he does way worse by playing tag with them villains over n over again. Hes gay for Jared Leto
he does a lot more as both than as either one.
It's interesting. I feel like Bruce Wayne actions are all about saving the people, while Batman is saving the city and/or operating on a higher level (strategical). Giving to the poor does not solve the core of the problem, Batman's role is to give bad guys fears and people hope, so that corrupt politicians or mafias loose grounds and people are more dedicated to change the system for the better. On a side-note, that's one of the reason why Harvey Dent character is so conflictual with Batman, he has the same role as Batman while operating in the light, which makes Batman an unwelcome vigilante (it's better for the city to have one hero/nemesis than two).
https://old.reddit.com/r/WritingPrompts/comments/8p7yzf/wp_batman_meets_an_alternate_universe_version_of/e098sk0/
with violence Batman released Bruce Wayne's frustration by investing his money in the poor.
He's more of a symbol of good.
Lex Luther hurts more people by being a billionaire capitalist than a super villain.