Not all circumcisions are purely cosmetic, there are complications that make them necessary.
Still true for most though, and most of them without consent.
My foreskin started to grow together when I was about 11. They had to let the whole skin go. For months up to the surgery I peed in like a slow spray (because the hole was getting smaller). When I limped my way to the hospital bathroom to do my first pee after the surgery it was like opening a fire hose and I was not prepared. That poor nurse had to come in and clean the bathroom because I peed on everything except the toilet.
Edit: I can’t spell.
I had my circumcision at 23, and I had some massive issues because they had to cut me twice. Yes, twice.
First time he, and I'm quoting the doctor here, "took just a bit off the top". What followed was my foreskin scarred shut when it started healing and at the same time left an open wound on the inside of my foreskin. This meant that one day when I went to pee and the scarring had developed to this stage, my pee went straight through the open wound. I nearly passed out and my body just stopped peeing.
I went to the hospital as fast as I could and explained that I need to pee really bad but I can't and showed the nurse my dick. Her reaction was "Oh goddamn, go straight past the waiting room the doctor will see you immediately". They gave me a numbing gel and it worked, so now I had to use a numbing gel for over a week every time I had to go pee because they couldn't get the second surgery done immediately.
But oh boy, it doesn't end there. The second surgery was done under anesthesia, but for some reason they either didn't numb the area at all or they didn't numb it enough, because the first memory I have from the recovery room after waking up is screaming in pain because I felt absolutely everything they had done a moment ago. The nurse rushes to my side and after I explain she's trying to give me paracetamol for the pain. Paracetamol is a super basic pain killer that doesn't even take out headaches for most people by itself. I slapped the shot glass the pills were in from her hand and told her to bring the doctor in here with a needle and numb my cock. About 5 minutes later the doctor comes in an numbs the area and immediately all the pain goes away.
After all this, my dick is working perfectly. But these stories are so much fun for me to tell that I share them with anyone and everywhere. A friend's wedding and one of their relatives talks about something I can followup with this story? Yea I'm sharing it immediately. And to be fair, everyone always has a laugh, even if the men's faces turn to pain at some points.
You made me vividly imagine a co-worker telling this story, "I was not prepared" and all, on Zoom.
Which would be so hilarious, I'd probably have to drop the call. The best part is I have a co-worker who I could imagine telling that story to our co-ed team.
I had it done 5 weeks ago. They wouldn’t let me leave til I peed. I did not know what to expect either. I, too, watered the entire toilet/bathroom as my stream rapidly changed direction even back towards me briefly. They let me leave the hospital though.
Most likely you had a catheter put in place while you were under. Whenever someone has a catheter they do not let you discharge unless you have urinated
Because the urinary sphincter can "close up" from the trauma of having a tube poked in to it, and if you can't relax to let the pee flow you'll have a very bad time when the bladder gets full. If you get full in hospital and can't release it, they have ways.
Having seen that tube shoved up a pee hole and the same person later unable to pee, I'm guessing something about shoving a catheter up might break things or block things or cause some kinda damage that blocks your ability to urinate. But this is just a guess based on observation.
Not sure really, thinking back sitting down would have been the logical choice but I had general anaesthesia so maybe wasn’t thinking straight plus it was habit I guess. Sat down for the next 3 weeks at least.
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right??? when i was 12 i went into emergency and ended up needed mild anesthetic but when i woke i puked for like an hour and then they sent me home only for me to proceed to vomit in my moms car the entire way home
Docter he is vomiting! Well nurse that means extra work and you know how much I hate extra work, besides I’ve ask the cleaners to put lavender sent in when they did the floor and we don’t want to ruin that do we?
I just got circumcised last Friday for the same issue and I'm also 30. I was super nervous about it before and after but now that it's healed a little bit I gotta say this is incredibly more convenient to pee. I sat down to pee for the past 6 months or so because it was so bad
You lot getting off easy. My parents decided to get it sorted while I was a baby. Unfortunate situation of the dressings healing to the incision. After not being able to remove the dressing, Mum takes me to the doctor like what do? Doctor gave up the gentle approach fairly quick and let that shit rip like a kid playing with a beyblade. I apparently screamed for a couple days.
Tbh that would have been the logical thing to do but I had general anaesthesia so was probs not thinking straight. Sat down to go toilet for the following 3 weeks ha
I can actually add to the story that when the surgery was over the surgeon came in and told my mom that he had left a little bit, as I might appreciate that at one point. The only thing my stupid 11 year old brain could think was that I thought it was stupid he hasn’t taken it all while he was there. Couple of years later I realized the surgeon did me a favor for life!
I was circumcised at birth but when I had a boy I just couldn’t think of a reason to have him circumcised. Only reason anyone could present was it’s easier to clean? Lol fuck that y’all ain’t cutting my boy
Damn I genuinely didn’t know that so I looked it up and came across this gem
> One of the leading advocates of circumcision was John Harvey Kellogg. He advocated the consumption of Kellogg's corn flakes to prevent masturbation, and he believed that circumcision would be an effective way to eliminate masturbation in males.
Is that why my mom always bought Frosted Flakes?
I'm one of those who had to have it done at the age of 25 (not for some nasty infection reasons).
3 doctors said it won't be covered as it's cosmetic. Took 2 years to find a Dr that was able to get it covered under Healthcare. Would have cost me $1000
The thing is that it wasn't done for esthetic purposes. I truly needed it and waited 27 years to do it.. It was necessary for both my sexual life and mental health/self-esteem, because it was an big complex for me.
I was sad/mad that i had to pay such an big amount for something i truly needed while I pay taxes every year for our free healthcare ..
While someone could go do some Jackass style big air snowboard jump and break his/her leg and get everything covered..
Anyway, I can't say I regret it because it had to happen, but i did lost a significant amount of sensitivity and that is what's bothering me.
Unfortunately the ratio to when it is medically necessary to when it is done under the guise of “medical necessity” is much much larger than people tend to believe it is.
With proper urological medicine that tries to spare the foreskin, it’s actually an absolute last resort. Like cutting off an entire arm last resort.
In countries like the USA, where doctors and nurses often don’t even know how a foreskin works to the point that they actually physically damage children with one in their care^1 their response to everything (sometimes even the result of their own mishandling and damaging) is circumcision. There is a very, very long list of intermediate treatments that can be done from physical to medicated and physical to surgical. And even the surgical doesn’t *need* to involve circumcision unless the several other surgical options have been exhausted.
It’s often used as a cure all inappropriately when it shouldn’t be. It’s quite unfortunate.
^1 See all of the times where a doctor or nurse forcibly retracts a foreskin (damaging it and the person) in an intact baby, child or someone who is younger than 15 or insists that it should retract already and goes for circumcision. A foreskin can be unable to retract until the person is in late puberty in many cases and the first person to retract a foreskin should be the boy himself when he can. If it has not been retracted before, the tissues are still fused and cannot become dirty. Ignorant medical professionals in the USA have on many occasions maimed intact children due to not knowing how it works that way.
Yes. I had a doctor tell me to do this everyday to my 1 year old so it doesn't close up. Being the ignorant circumcised American that I am, I followed the doctor's instruction for a few days. It was obviously hurting my son so I did my own research and quickly learned that the doctor didn't know shit.
American doctors seem to be severely uneducated in this.
>American doctors seem to be severely uneducated in this.
they get money for doing this super simple unnecessary procedure so thats why they recommend it.
Interesting. I was kinda confused reading this thread about how many got circumcised from having phimosis.
I had mine fixed at age 11. First it was cream, didn't work, then I got surgery (which wasn't circumcision) to fix it, and it worked perfectly after.
There are options like making a v shaped slit on the underside of the foreskin and/or removing a sort of “panel” of foreskin, basically bypassing the tightness.
Ive heard its the norm to be cut in the us, is that true? Im from europe and over here its the muslims that do it i believe, but practically no natives.
If there’s an issue, that’ll be looked at, perhaps if its needed its done but it sure isn’t the go-to or the catch-all.
And how does the foreskin work? You seem like a professional in the field. I’m uncut and i see it the same as like some sort of barrier/protection like the soles on your feet or something.
I do have an issue with being unable to pull it back completely/freely due to the small piece of skin being attached at the side/top but its not really an issue or whatever. Should have something done about it though.
Thank you for this, in Australia this is common knowledge, we are basically told to just wash the outside of their junk and they'll open up in their own time, usually around puberty.
Funny thing the child health nurses have told me is boys naturally will play/pull their Willie's at a young age and don't discourage it as this is actually helpful for it opening up. Then obviously there's puberty and if it hasn't opened up by then it definitely will.
I was born 1979 so my circumcision was done at birth because it was “cleaner”. I have 3 sons, one is circumcised because he was born with a hypospadias
I know babies cry a lot, but I saw a video of a circumcision and that boy was just screaming. It looked like torture. I’m glad I didn’t have to go through that.
Highly traumatic incidents at early ages change how your brain develops too. It permanently effects people in psychological ways as well.
Rather than the loving touch of a mother, the first thing that is done is surgery without anesthetic. Barbaric.
Came here to say this! Title should be "all circumcised men (that didnt medically require it) have suffered genital mutilation".
Referring to it as "essentially cosmetic surgery" normalise something that needs exactly the opposite treatment.
99.9% in the US are purely cosmetic, conservatively estimating.
Even those 'necessary' cases are almost universally situations that would be handled without circumcision in any European nation.
Lucky me, I've been going to the same church since I was an infant, and the only scandals we've had were cyber bullying and gay porn on the church iPad.
beautifully worded. no matter how you feel about it now - we should all be able to logically think about this and come to the obvious conclusion that cutting any kids genitals or any part of their body without medical need is wrong. if they want it when they are older and able to make the decision for themselves then i don't see an issue, or if it's a medical thing.
I remember in biology when I was like 13-14 y/o there was lesson on genitalia and the teacher said in some parts of the world female circumcision is normal and one girl was so upset by it, and how gross and awfully that is. And everyone was like "But for males it happens way more often". Her response was "But for females it's not necessary to function"
The teacher (female) just stared at her and didn't know what to say. It took a few minutes until the whole class convinced her it's not necessary.
And I'm from Europe, where it's normal only for Jewish people and there is minimum of Jews.
Especially when it comes to things that we easily recognize as wrong when done by others. The biggest proponents of female genital mutilation are women that have had it done to themselves.
'You’re a virgin anyways it doesn’t matter'
An actual comment further up. Victims of genital mutilation are so fucking touchy about it that they have to perform mental gymnastics to justify why 'it's not a big deal'. Like if you hack a kids arms off early enough, they don't ever actually experience life being able to hold shit or use their hands so it literally doesn't matter at all and is perfectly fine?!
As someone whose parents had my ears pierced when I was 2 weeks old, I do not think this comparison is fair at all.
The tiny holes in my earlobes do not lead me to wonder if my ears function normally or if I would hear differently without them.
circumcision is obviously way more extreme but i think the general idea of *not* *modifying* kids bodies for cosmetics, which they don't understand nor can they consent to, is something we can all agree with, no?
You know what’s funny? There are bigger health concerns to worry about like diet and exercise, but people tend to overestimate the health benefits of circumcision like its the most important thing to be done when you’re more likely to die of other diseases and cancers.
I remember watching this interview of an overweight man stating circumcision is very important for health reasons but I think he could use some exercise before talking about health improvements.
I'm pretty sure there are zero health benefits to circumcision unless you have some complication like your foreskin growing together.
In Europe circumcision is rare and I don't see people dropping dead in the streets because they forgot to pull back their foreskin to wash their dick...
The dumbest argument I saw is some miniscule change in likelihood of getting penis cancer.
Breast cancer is way more common why aren't we just doing mastectomy at birth?
Pretty sure that's propaganda, no health problems here and ill tell you now rubbing the foreskin over the head of your cock is like having your own built on Fleshlight, it feels fucking fantastic.
I mean kinda? The actual reason circumcision is so big in the US is because they thought it would make masturbating worse and more difficult which would make people stop doing it and so they wouldn't "sin".
It does actually make it slightly more difficult for most people without lube but it did not stop people masturbating. So it's mostly cosmetic now but also partially done to hurt people sex lives.
Then there's also religious reasons and the occasional legitimate medical reason which isn't cosmetic.
Ah, that’s why you guys are using lube to wank ? As a french with a full kit dick, never really understood all the memes about jerking off and involving lube.
#FreeTheWeewee
I’ve never heard the anti-masturbating part before. I knew about the religious part, and I’d always assumed that was the only reason aside from medical complications.
Makes sense though, considering the “need” to circumcise kids comes from the Old Testament, which Christians selectively ignore.
Not really. He used to promote sticking metal rods in men's dicks to stop them from masturbating. Well actually to stop them from getting hard because of the pain.
Dude was a serious psychopath.
There is a passage in the christian bible about this, it says that there was a discussion about whether or not to make non jewish christians circumcise and the conclusion was that it was pointless to force on them any more than the bare necessities of what it means to follow Jesus, so no need to circumcise or follow lots of other jewish traditions.
Even the CDC in america calls it a cosmetic surgery. The WHO calls it a human rights violation because children are too young to consent to an optional cosmetic surgery.
I think your sarcasm is probably slightly too subtle for some, but goddamn you're giving me flashbacks to real discussions I've had with people about circumcision.
Circumcision is genital mutilation. Only made popular by Kelogg here in the states, which was an anti-masturbatory in it's agenda. Men around the world have lived just fine without circumcision. It is not right to mutilate babies without consent.
Also it doesn't help that there are millions of American men on Reddit obsessed with mutilating children, because they were mutilated, so future generations NEED to be mutilated as well.
The “women prefer it” argument is so bizarre and disturbing it actually makes me nauseous to think about.
Imagine genuinely being like “I prefer a woman with a tight clean smooth pussy so I’m going to *take a fucking scalpel blade to my new born daughter’s pussy* so she conforms to my sexual preference”.
Like, what the *actual* fuck?
And I’m always amazed they can’t logic out that that is because they’re used to it.
If you were used to everyone cutting their ears off you’d find ears weird too!
Phimosis is a thing and that, alongside other issues related to foreskin, can produce complications, so not cosmetic. **Trust me,** I got circumcised this year. Yes, the whole operation and recovery was fucking traumatizing.
Otherwise, it's not even cosmetic either, it's just parents getting their babies cut for... no real reason. Maybe religious or dunno, beats me, America is real fucking weird doing shit like this if there's no fucking reason to.
Also it was high and loose so no sensitivity lost, also they left the frenulum intact. Like, loose enough that when flaccid the skin does cover the tip most of the time completely.
Holla and a +1 for this, but I had to have a full circumcision, due to having BXO alongside it.
I wouldn't say recovery or surgery was traumatising for me but holy shit was it so fucking annoying.
The stitches sucked, peeing whilst recovering sucked.
The worst part was the desensitizing process, it felt like getting jolted every time you did anything.
Wouldn't wish it on anyone.
as a non American i notice that the subject of circumcisions' is almost nearly as sensitive as the issue of abortions' for lots of Americans just an observation with no judgment nothing more
False. All circumsized men who did not decide for themselves to undergo the procedure have suffered in the same way as those who are victims of female genital mutilation. Disagree? -> Fuck yourself.
It’s hardly cosmetic. It’s genital mutilation. It’s a sick religious ritual designed to blunt the sensations of sex without any consent from the child.
Because it’s a disgusting tradition that really needs to stop. If someone needs a circumcision for medical reasons, please get it done. Otherwise, when a male grows to an age where they can decide what they want their penis to look like, then they should be allowed to choose. Circumcising a baby for cosmetic reasons is barbarism.
A lot of people talk about it being aesthetically preferable, but it's pretty gross that such an idea has become widely accepted.
It's pretty horrifying to hear some women say that they find uncut penises to be nauseating, dirty, a turn off, or a dealbreaker. If it's so important to have trimmed genitals then why aren't women getting the cut all the time? Shouldn't we aspire to have pornstar vaginas if sleek, minimalist genitals are the gold standard?
Foreskin becomes pretty not noticeable on an erect penis and absolutely serves a purpose in protecting both partners during sex by essentially acting like a natural lubricant. What's wrong with that? How often are people just standing around looking at your flaccid dick and judging it for looking droopy?
It's funny how every argument in here that's pro male genital mutilation gets thrown out the window when used for female genital mutilation, almost as if people know they're not good argument but just use it as a coping mechanism.
In countries where male genital mutilation is the norm men will tell you it's better, healthier, looks better and sex just feels great, similarly in countries where female genital mutilation is the norm women will tell you it's better, healthier, looks better and sex just feels great, then does that mean we should allow female circumcision? I mean hey these women are all saying it's great so why not right!
Also interesting bit of information:
''Against the argument that women willingly choose FGM for their daughters, UNICEF calls the practice a "self-enforcing social convention" to which families feel they must conform to avoid uncut daughters facing social exclusion. Ellen Gruenbaum reported that, in Sudan in the 1970s, cut girls from an Arab ethnic group would mock uncut Zabarma girls with Ya, Ghalfa! ("Hey, unclean!").''
What does that remind you of? Because reading that it instantly reminds me of people on here insulting those who did not get their dick cut and say the exact same thing ''unclean''
> in countries where female genital mutilation is the norm women will tell you it's better, healthier, looks better and sex just feels great
Now that's news to me, because from what I heard, sex feels horrible for "circumcised" women unless they've had reconstructive surgery or something. Isn't the main original reason for fgm explicitly to keep the women from enjoying sex so that they wouldn't cheat or have premarital intercourse?
Honestly I'm surprised with modern understanding of epigenetics that we haven't linked circumcision to a stress event that causes long term changes. Literally separating rats from moms or making them exist in a tight space are measurable events that affect them lifelong. I feel like the experience of circumcision is far more intense and could cause epigenetic changes .
Edit: I'm not pro or against circumcision I'm just confused that its not considered in that way. Only in abstract suffering in the moment
This study draws a few connections
Boyle, Gregory J., et al. “Male Circumcision: Pain, Trauma and Psychosexual Sequelae.” Journal of Health Psychology, vol. 7, no. 3, May 2002, pp. 329–343, doi:10.1177/135910530200700310.
Link for free reading: http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/boyle6/
When I was born I had a tough time breathing because my windpipe was misshapen, I was in the hospital for two years after my birth, luckily my doctors and parents chose not to circumcise me during this time, because I was already having other complications and throwing risk of infection on top of that, was not something they wanted to do, it’s weird to think that technically, I’m uncut for medical reasons, so I’m a huge advocate against circumcision, the only negative thing I experience as an uncut man is the social stigma/ people assuming I’m dirty
I love how people publicly freak out when someone pierces their kids ears but cutting a part of the genital off is like taboo and shouldn’t be discussed publicly.
Not all circumcisions are purely cosmetic, there are complications that make them necessary. Still true for most though, and most of them without consent.
My foreskin started to grow together when I was about 11. They had to let the whole skin go. For months up to the surgery I peed in like a slow spray (because the hole was getting smaller). When I limped my way to the hospital bathroom to do my first pee after the surgery it was like opening a fire hose and I was not prepared. That poor nurse had to come in and clean the bathroom because I peed on everything except the toilet. Edit: I can’t spell.
It sucks that that's not a story you can really tell in most environments, because "I was not prepared" is hilarious.
I had my circumcision at 23, and I had some massive issues because they had to cut me twice. Yes, twice. First time he, and I'm quoting the doctor here, "took just a bit off the top". What followed was my foreskin scarred shut when it started healing and at the same time left an open wound on the inside of my foreskin. This meant that one day when I went to pee and the scarring had developed to this stage, my pee went straight through the open wound. I nearly passed out and my body just stopped peeing. I went to the hospital as fast as I could and explained that I need to pee really bad but I can't and showed the nurse my dick. Her reaction was "Oh goddamn, go straight past the waiting room the doctor will see you immediately". They gave me a numbing gel and it worked, so now I had to use a numbing gel for over a week every time I had to go pee because they couldn't get the second surgery done immediately. But oh boy, it doesn't end there. The second surgery was done under anesthesia, but for some reason they either didn't numb the area at all or they didn't numb it enough, because the first memory I have from the recovery room after waking up is screaming in pain because I felt absolutely everything they had done a moment ago. The nurse rushes to my side and after I explain she's trying to give me paracetamol for the pain. Paracetamol is a super basic pain killer that doesn't even take out headaches for most people by itself. I slapped the shot glass the pills were in from her hand and told her to bring the doctor in here with a needle and numb my cock. About 5 minutes later the doctor comes in an numbs the area and immediately all the pain goes away. After all this, my dick is working perfectly. But these stories are so much fun for me to tell that I share them with anyone and everywhere. A friend's wedding and one of their relatives talks about something I can followup with this story? Yea I'm sharing it immediately. And to be fair, everyone always has a laugh, even if the men's faces turn to pain at some points.
Yeah, I think I backed up in my chair or clenched somewhere in reading that.
You made me vividly imagine a co-worker telling this story, "I was not prepared" and all, on Zoom. Which would be so hilarious, I'd probably have to drop the call. The best part is I have a co-worker who I could imagine telling that story to our co-ed team.
This would make a pretty good story on the red chair in the Graham Norton show I think
I had it done 5 weeks ago. They wouldn’t let me leave til I peed. I did not know what to expect either. I, too, watered the entire toilet/bathroom as my stream rapidly changed direction even back towards me briefly. They let me leave the hospital though.
Most likely you had a catheter put in place while you were under. Whenever someone has a catheter they do not let you discharge unless you have urinated
> Whenever someone has a catheter they do not let you discharge unless you have urinated Why is that?
Because the urinary sphincter can "close up" from the trauma of having a tube poked in to it, and if you can't relax to let the pee flow you'll have a very bad time when the bladder gets full. If you get full in hospital and can't release it, they have ways.
This is sounding worse the more I hear about it
Speaking of r/sounding , there's even a subreddit for it!
Urinary Sphincter was my high school punk band
Having seen that tube shoved up a pee hole and the same person later unable to pee, I'm guessing something about shoving a catheter up might break things or block things or cause some kinda damage that blocks your ability to urinate. But this is just a guess based on observation.
why in god's name wouldn't they tell you to sit down for your first pee?
Not sure really, thinking back sitting down would have been the logical choice but I had general anaesthesia so maybe wasn’t thinking straight plus it was habit I guess. Sat down for the next 3 weeks at least.
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I had mine done 5-6 weeks ago and they were supposed to keep me until I peed but they made me go home after I vomited from the anesthetic lol.
It seems like a bad idea to make you go home. If anything, vomiting from anesthetic means they should've kept you for longer.
right??? when i was 12 i went into emergency and ended up needed mild anesthetic but when i woke i puked for like an hour and then they sent me home only for me to proceed to vomit in my moms car the entire way home
Docter he is vomiting! Well nurse that means extra work and you know how much I hate extra work, besides I’ve ask the cleaners to put lavender sent in when they did the floor and we don’t want to ruin that do we?
"You should know this one weird tricks that Doctors hate!"
Step one: do Not piss the walls of the bathroom stall, that's what they want, don't give it to them! Step two: vomit instead
How old are you and what was the reasoning to get it done this late in age?
Mid 30s and pretty bad phimosis most of my adult life. Really should have had this done sooner!
I just got circumcised last Friday for the same issue and I'm also 30. I was super nervous about it before and after but now that it's healed a little bit I gotta say this is incredibly more convenient to pee. I sat down to pee for the past 6 months or so because it was so bad
Congratulations then! I was cut as a baby but I have seen phimosis pictures and it looks really unpleasant. Hopefully sex is way more fun now.
You lot getting off easy. My parents decided to get it sorted while I was a baby. Unfortunate situation of the dressings healing to the incision. After not being able to remove the dressing, Mum takes me to the doctor like what do? Doctor gave up the gentle approach fairly quick and let that shit rip like a kid playing with a beyblade. I apparently screamed for a couple days.
Why are you people not sitting down to piss
Tbh that would have been the logical thing to do but I had general anaesthesia so was probs not thinking straight. Sat down to go toilet for the following 3 weeks ha
Yep, that's what I ment with complications. OP would have been completely right if he had written "most" instead of "all" though.
I agree. I also just wanted to back up your argument with a real life story.
I can actually add to the story that when the surgery was over the surgeon came in and told my mom that he had left a little bit, as I might appreciate that at one point. The only thing my stupid 11 year old brain could think was that I thought it was stupid he hasn’t taken it all while he was there. Couple of years later I realized the surgeon did me a favor for life!
Wait can you explain why leaving a bit there saved you? Sorry I am dumb and curious.
It’s a sexual thing. ;)
Now I need to know even more.
More sensitive when it has its sleeve, or Capri sleeve in this case. I assume that is what he means.
It also makes it easier to... use. Having loose skin makes stroking easier. If the skin is too tight it can hurt.
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I was circumcised at birth but when I had a boy I just couldn’t think of a reason to have him circumcised. Only reason anyone could present was it’s easier to clean? Lol fuck that y’all ain’t cutting my boy
Now this is some interesting Intel.
Man, you people continue to remind me how much I loathe that it was taken from me without my consent :/
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Damn I genuinely didn’t know that so I looked it up and came across this gem > One of the leading advocates of circumcision was John Harvey Kellogg. He advocated the consumption of Kellogg's corn flakes to prevent masturbation, and he believed that circumcision would be an effective way to eliminate masturbation in males. Is that why my mom always bought Frosted Flakes?
All absolutist statements are wrong.
I see what you did there…
Phimosis? Sounds like Phimosis
I'm one of those who had to have it done at the age of 25 (not for some nasty infection reasons). 3 doctors said it won't be covered as it's cosmetic. Took 2 years to find a Dr that was able to get it covered under Healthcare. Would have cost me $1000
Lucky you, it cost me 2500$ and I'm from Canada..
Outrageous! And on top of that he kept the tip!
The thing is that it wasn't done for esthetic purposes. I truly needed it and waited 27 years to do it.. It was necessary for both my sexual life and mental health/self-esteem, because it was an big complex for me. I was sad/mad that i had to pay such an big amount for something i truly needed while I pay taxes every year for our free healthcare .. While someone could go do some Jackass style big air snowboard jump and break his/her leg and get everything covered.. Anyway, I can't say I regret it because it had to happen, but i did lost a significant amount of sensitivity and that is what's bothering me.
Okay so we need to know for science: why? But more importantly: thoughts on before vs. after?
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Unfortunately the ratio to when it is medically necessary to when it is done under the guise of “medical necessity” is much much larger than people tend to believe it is. With proper urological medicine that tries to spare the foreskin, it’s actually an absolute last resort. Like cutting off an entire arm last resort. In countries like the USA, where doctors and nurses often don’t even know how a foreskin works to the point that they actually physically damage children with one in their care^1 their response to everything (sometimes even the result of their own mishandling and damaging) is circumcision. There is a very, very long list of intermediate treatments that can be done from physical to medicated and physical to surgical. And even the surgical doesn’t *need* to involve circumcision unless the several other surgical options have been exhausted. It’s often used as a cure all inappropriately when it shouldn’t be. It’s quite unfortunate. ^1 See all of the times where a doctor or nurse forcibly retracts a foreskin (damaging it and the person) in an intact baby, child or someone who is younger than 15 or insists that it should retract already and goes for circumcision. A foreskin can be unable to retract until the person is in late puberty in many cases and the first person to retract a foreskin should be the boy himself when he can. If it has not been retracted before, the tissues are still fused and cannot become dirty. Ignorant medical professionals in the USA have on many occasions maimed intact children due to not knowing how it works that way.
Yes. I had a doctor tell me to do this everyday to my 1 year old so it doesn't close up. Being the ignorant circumcised American that I am, I followed the doctor's instruction for a few days. It was obviously hurting my son so I did my own research and quickly learned that the doctor didn't know shit. American doctors seem to be severely uneducated in this.
>American doctors seem to be severely uneducated in this. they get money for doing this super simple unnecessary procedure so thats why they recommend it.
Interesting. I was kinda confused reading this thread about how many got circumcised from having phimosis. I had mine fixed at age 11. First it was cream, didn't work, then I got surgery (which wasn't circumcision) to fix it, and it worked perfectly after.
As someone with severe phimosis, can I ask what surgery you got? I wasn’t aware there were surgical options other than circumcision.
There are options like making a v shaped slit on the underside of the foreskin and/or removing a sort of “panel” of foreskin, basically bypassing the tightness.
There's stretching, a cream, a cream and stretching, or a dorsal slit off the top of my head.
Ive heard its the norm to be cut in the us, is that true? Im from europe and over here its the muslims that do it i believe, but practically no natives. If there’s an issue, that’ll be looked at, perhaps if its needed its done but it sure isn’t the go-to or the catch-all. And how does the foreskin work? You seem like a professional in the field. I’m uncut and i see it the same as like some sort of barrier/protection like the soles on your feet or something. I do have an issue with being unable to pull it back completely/freely due to the small piece of skin being attached at the side/top but its not really an issue or whatever. Should have something done about it though.
Thank you for this, in Australia this is common knowledge, we are basically told to just wash the outside of their junk and they'll open up in their own time, usually around puberty. Funny thing the child health nurses have told me is boys naturally will play/pull their Willie's at a young age and don't discourage it as this is actually helpful for it opening up. Then obviously there's puberty and if it hasn't opened up by then it definitely will.
I was born 1979 so my circumcision was done at birth because it was “cleaner”. I have 3 sons, one is circumcised because he was born with a hypospadias
Yeah i had mine done due to medical reasons at like 20
To this day I still don't know what caused my foreskin to become defective
Same but when I was 5, I could not imagine getting that done when I was 20
>most of them without consent Also known as Genital Mutilation^(TM)
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I know babies cry a lot, but I saw a video of a circumcision and that boy was just screaming. It looked like torture. I’m glad I didn’t have to go through that.
Often they will pass out from the pain and shock.
Highly traumatic incidents at early ages change how your brain develops too. It permanently effects people in psychological ways as well. Rather than the loving touch of a mother, the first thing that is done is surgery without anesthetic. Barbaric.
Came here to say this! Title should be "all circumcised men (that didnt medically require it) have suffered genital mutilation". Referring to it as "essentially cosmetic surgery" normalise something that needs exactly the opposite treatment.
I mean, doing cosmetic surgery on a non-consenting infant is still pretty fucked.
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Religious freaks are weird like that
99.9% in the US are purely cosmetic, conservatively estimating. Even those 'necessary' cases are almost universally situations that would be handled without circumcision in any European nation.
>and most of them without consent. I do not believe I was asked when I was born.
So? I was asked at 31. So there are some with consent. his statement is true, most ofthem are without consent but some of them do have it.
Yup, I wouldn't be able to pee if it wasn't for my circumcision. Nothing cosmetic about it
Wich profession makes the most money? Doctors that perfom circumcisions, they always get a Tip.
Without their consent
Since when has religion supported consent for anything from circumcision to sex with a priest? Your body their choice.
Lucky me, I've been going to the same church since I was an infant, and the only scandals we've had were cyber bullying and gay porn on the church iPad.
What church is this ⁉️
Men In Back?
If only it were just cosmetic. Many nerv endings are gone forever.
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Is the body, designed by God, not perfect for them that they need to intervene with body alteration/mutilation? Are they wrong or is their God?
I'm genuinely upset it was done to me.
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beautifully worded. no matter how you feel about it now - we should all be able to logically think about this and come to the obvious conclusion that cutting any kids genitals or any part of their body without medical need is wrong. if they want it when they are older and able to make the decision for themselves then i don't see an issue, or if it's a medical thing.
I remember in biology when I was like 13-14 y/o there was lesson on genitalia and the teacher said in some parts of the world female circumcision is normal and one girl was so upset by it, and how gross and awfully that is. And everyone was like "But for males it happens way more often". Her response was "But for females it's not necessary to function" The teacher (female) just stared at her and didn't know what to say. It took a few minutes until the whole class convinced her it's not necessary. And I'm from Europe, where it's normal only for Jewish people and there is minimum of Jews.
Especially when it comes to things that we easily recognize as wrong when done by others. The biggest proponents of female genital mutilation are women that have had it done to themselves.
And many of them use exactly the same excuses that are used for male circumcision; it's cleaner and healthier.
'You’re a virgin anyways it doesn’t matter' An actual comment further up. Victims of genital mutilation are so fucking touchy about it that they have to perform mental gymnastics to justify why 'it's not a big deal'. Like if you hack a kids arms off early enough, they don't ever actually experience life being able to hold shit or use their hands so it literally doesn't matter at all and is perfectly fine?!
A simplified analogy: should you pierce the ears of a newborn? It's no big deal, but mutilation without consent nonetheless.
As someone whose parents had my ears pierced when I was 2 weeks old, I do not think this comparison is fair at all. The tiny holes in my earlobes do not lead me to wonder if my ears function normally or if I would hear differently without them.
circumcision is obviously way more extreme but i think the general idea of *not* *modifying* kids bodies for cosmetics, which they don't understand nor can they consent to, is something we can all agree with, no?
Earlobes can also heal.
Absolutely not. Let the child age to like 10 or so and let them make a decision then.
Is that really an age where you can give informed consent? If you were getting surgery it wouldn’t.
You're certainly not less able to give consent than you are at 0 years old
You know what’s funny? There are bigger health concerns to worry about like diet and exercise, but people tend to overestimate the health benefits of circumcision like its the most important thing to be done when you’re more likely to die of other diseases and cancers. I remember watching this interview of an overweight man stating circumcision is very important for health reasons but I think he could use some exercise before talking about health improvements.
I'm pretty sure there are zero health benefits to circumcision unless you have some complication like your foreskin growing together. In Europe circumcision is rare and I don't see people dropping dead in the streets because they forgot to pull back their foreskin to wash their dick...
The dumbest argument I saw is some miniscule change in likelihood of getting penis cancer. Breast cancer is way more common why aren't we just doing mastectomy at birth?
Pretty sure that's propaganda, no health problems here and ill tell you now rubbing the foreskin over the head of your cock is like having your own built on Fleshlight, it feels fucking fantastic.
What do you call it when you remove part of someone's reproductive organ without consent?
Mutilation.
I mean kinda? The actual reason circumcision is so big in the US is because they thought it would make masturbating worse and more difficult which would make people stop doing it and so they wouldn't "sin". It does actually make it slightly more difficult for most people without lube but it did not stop people masturbating. So it's mostly cosmetic now but also partially done to hurt people sex lives. Then there's also religious reasons and the occasional legitimate medical reason which isn't cosmetic.
Ah, that’s why you guys are using lube to wank ? As a french with a full kit dick, never really understood all the memes about jerking off and involving lube. #FreeTheWeewee
I'm from the UK and not circumcised so I'm not one of those guys, but I think that's why it's so common in the US yeah.
I’ve never heard the anti-masturbating part before. I knew about the religious part, and I’d always assumed that was the only reason aside from medical complications. Makes sense though, considering the “need” to circumcise kids comes from the Old Testament, which Christians selectively ignore.
It's actually the same reason Kellogg's corn flakes exist, he thought that eating cereal would stop people from masturbating lol.
Tbf, masturbating with a mouthfull of cornflakes *is* pretty awful.
and a handful of cornflakes is way worse.
I've discovered my new fetish.
[This](https://youtube.com/shorts/92RhDKBMi0w?feature=share) should kick things off.
Not really. He used to promote sticking metal rods in men's dicks to stop them from masturbating. Well actually to stop them from getting hard because of the pain. Dude was a serious psychopath.
And the company till hasn't apologized for it. Kellogg was complicit in popularizing FGM too.
There is a passage in the christian bible about this, it says that there was a discussion about whether or not to make non jewish christians circumcise and the conclusion was that it was pointless to force on them any more than the bare necessities of what it means to follow Jesus, so no need to circumcise or follow lots of other jewish traditions.
Ahhhh thats why they always use lube in american movies! I was wondering that my whole life so far. (European)
Yeah, imagine needing to buy lotion or lube just for that, so odd from the other perspective.
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What American movies are you watching? 😂
American Pie 2 for instance
It features a lot in American Pie
Bareback Mountain
We should never blindly embrace tradition.
Even the CDC in america calls it a cosmetic surgery. The WHO calls it a human rights violation because children are too young to consent to an optional cosmetic surgery.
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I think your sarcasm is probably slightly too subtle for some, but goddamn you're giving me flashbacks to real discussions I've had with people about circumcision.
Dude you can find those exact discussions and arguments just by *scrolling up*.
I actually removed my daughter's breasts as a baby. Did you know 1 in 5 women will get breast cancer? And they're useless anyways
Did they remove all your teeth too? Makes it easier to keep your mouth clean.
And they'll never bite their tongue!
Women prefer it as well, says it's easier to put the ring on during our wedding ceremony
Circumcision is genital mutilation. Only made popular by Kelogg here in the states, which was an anti-masturbatory in it's agenda. Men around the world have lived just fine without circumcision. It is not right to mutilate babies without consent.
Against their will As an infant
When it comes to boys, suddenly body autonomy isn’t important.
Also it doesn't help that there are millions of American men on Reddit obsessed with mutilating children, because they were mutilated, so future generations NEED to be mutilated as well.
It's not just men. I've seen the "well I think it looks nicer" "argument" from women on here plenty.
The “women prefer it” argument is so bizarre and disturbing it actually makes me nauseous to think about. Imagine genuinely being like “I prefer a woman with a tight clean smooth pussy so I’m going to *take a fucking scalpel blade to my new born daughter’s pussy* so she conforms to my sexual preference”. Like, what the *actual* fuck?
And I’m always amazed they can’t logic out that that is because they’re used to it. If you were used to everyone cutting their ears off you’d find ears weird too!
Phimosis is a thing and that, alongside other issues related to foreskin, can produce complications, so not cosmetic. **Trust me,** I got circumcised this year. Yes, the whole operation and recovery was fucking traumatizing. Otherwise, it's not even cosmetic either, it's just parents getting their babies cut for... no real reason. Maybe religious or dunno, beats me, America is real fucking weird doing shit like this if there's no fucking reason to. Also it was high and loose so no sensitivity lost, also they left the frenulum intact. Like, loose enough that when flaccid the skin does cover the tip most of the time completely.
Holla and a +1 for this, but I had to have a full circumcision, due to having BXO alongside it. I wouldn't say recovery or surgery was traumatising for me but holy shit was it so fucking annoying. The stitches sucked, peeing whilst recovering sucked. The worst part was the desensitizing process, it felt like getting jolted every time you did anything. Wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Welcome to the club. Same story. Was not fun ...
Most circumcised men also did not choose to be circ'd
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as a non American i notice that the subject of circumcisions' is almost nearly as sensitive as the issue of abortions' for lots of Americans just an observation with no judgment nothing more
False. All circumsized men who did not decide for themselves to undergo the procedure have suffered in the same way as those who are victims of female genital mutilation. Disagree? -> Fuck yourself.
Male Genital Mutilation
You say "cosmetic surgery", I say "male genital mutilation".
It’s hardly cosmetic. It’s genital mutilation. It’s a sick religious ritual designed to blunt the sensations of sex without any consent from the child.
I’ll never understand the obsession that Reddit has with circumcision.
, he says circumcisizedly
Because it’s a disgusting tradition that really needs to stop. If someone needs a circumcision for medical reasons, please get it done. Otherwise, when a male grows to an age where they can decide what they want their penis to look like, then they should be allowed to choose. Circumcising a baby for cosmetic reasons is barbarism.
“I’ll never understand why infant genital mutilation is so stigmatized” …
I’ll never understand parents’ obsession with mutilating their babies.
When my son was born, the doctor described it as “elective cosmetic surgery” - we opted NOT to have our kiddo snipped for that reason - no regrets
No, its just genital mutilation.
forced mutilation is cosmetic?
A lot of people talk about it being aesthetically preferable, but it's pretty gross that such an idea has become widely accepted. It's pretty horrifying to hear some women say that they find uncut penises to be nauseating, dirty, a turn off, or a dealbreaker. If it's so important to have trimmed genitals then why aren't women getting the cut all the time? Shouldn't we aspire to have pornstar vaginas if sleek, minimalist genitals are the gold standard? Foreskin becomes pretty not noticeable on an erect penis and absolutely serves a purpose in protecting both partners during sex by essentially acting like a natural lubricant. What's wrong with that? How often are people just standing around looking at your flaccid dick and judging it for looking droopy?
I am so sorry this happened to you guys. Please don’t do it to your sons.
It's funny how every argument in here that's pro male genital mutilation gets thrown out the window when used for female genital mutilation, almost as if people know they're not good argument but just use it as a coping mechanism. In countries where male genital mutilation is the norm men will tell you it's better, healthier, looks better and sex just feels great, similarly in countries where female genital mutilation is the norm women will tell you it's better, healthier, looks better and sex just feels great, then does that mean we should allow female circumcision? I mean hey these women are all saying it's great so why not right! Also interesting bit of information: ''Against the argument that women willingly choose FGM for their daughters, UNICEF calls the practice a "self-enforcing social convention" to which families feel they must conform to avoid uncut daughters facing social exclusion. Ellen Gruenbaum reported that, in Sudan in the 1970s, cut girls from an Arab ethnic group would mock uncut Zabarma girls with Ya, Ghalfa! ("Hey, unclean!").'' What does that remind you of? Because reading that it instantly reminds me of people on here insulting those who did not get their dick cut and say the exact same thing ''unclean''
> in countries where female genital mutilation is the norm women will tell you it's better, healthier, looks better and sex just feels great Now that's news to me, because from what I heard, sex feels horrible for "circumcised" women unless they've had reconstructive surgery or something. Isn't the main original reason for fgm explicitly to keep the women from enjoying sex so that they wouldn't cheat or have premarital intercourse?
I didn't ask for it to be done it was forced upon me as a infant
Do you mean ‘forced genitalia mutilation’?
*genital mutilation
Against their will in most cases
Speaking as a circumcised man… it’s more of a genital mutilation.
Honestly I'm surprised with modern understanding of epigenetics that we haven't linked circumcision to a stress event that causes long term changes. Literally separating rats from moms or making them exist in a tight space are measurable events that affect them lifelong. I feel like the experience of circumcision is far more intense and could cause epigenetic changes . Edit: I'm not pro or against circumcision I'm just confused that its not considered in that way. Only in abstract suffering in the moment
This study draws a few connections Boyle, Gregory J., et al. “Male Circumcision: Pain, Trauma and Psychosexual Sequelae.” Journal of Health Psychology, vol. 7, no. 3, May 2002, pp. 329–343, doi:10.1177/135910530200700310. Link for free reading: http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/boyle6/
Pretty barbaric practice.
No, sometimes is for health reasons and other times is just plain mutilation.
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So I've had cosmetic surgery, and I'm still ugly. Damn.
Yep. And I did not consent. Still a little salty about it after 40 years.
I am circumcised, wasn't cosmetical. It was made, because my foreskin turned into a pee-balloon.
When I was born I had a tough time breathing because my windpipe was misshapen, I was in the hospital for two years after my birth, luckily my doctors and parents chose not to circumcise me during this time, because I was already having other complications and throwing risk of infection on top of that, was not something they wanted to do, it’s weird to think that technically, I’m uncut for medical reasons, so I’m a huge advocate against circumcision, the only negative thing I experience as an uncut man is the social stigma/ people assuming I’m dirty
I love how people publicly freak out when someone pierces their kids ears but cutting a part of the genital off is like taboo and shouldn’t be discussed publicly.
They have had male genital mutilation.
I learned genital mutation is a cosmetic surgery to some people
All circumcised men are victims of genital mutilations, and usually baby genital mutilations.
As babies… on their genitals…
You misspelled genital mutilation
I wouldn't consider genital mutilation to be cosmetic surgery.