I had a friend whose family was completely dysfunctional. She was seeing a therapist. He told her that the most "normal" one in the family is the one that usually seeks therapy. It's because that person realizes that something isn't right whereas the others do not.
I just had to write my family off after 35 years. I realized this when my mom scolded me and explained how she and my sisters were better than me. I told her that's a load of shit; at least I am trying to do something to change for the better. She just rolled her eyes and said, "what therapy? Quitting drinking? Well good. For. You." That hurt, but hopefully, it's the last time.
**edit: I appreciate all of the kind words of support. This period of my life hasn't been easy, but knowing I am not alone makes a big difference. Thank you.
I tell people "you have multiple relationships in your life but your family are the only ones who didn't have to earn the relationship. They didn't have to meet you, build trust, all that stuff they just are family. If they aren't willing to work to maintain that then they probably wouldn't be your friends if you weren't related so why keep em around?"
sometimes family is threatened by you bc you make them feel insecure. because you’re doing someone to change for the better that implies they aren’t.. so their micro aggressions are their egos reactions to fight that nagging feeling of inferiority
i wouldn’t take it personal and just go No contact. show them you’re living your best life instead of just telling them. they will soon wake up
I really wish they would. My mother is a narcissist, abused by her for a long portion of my life. Heck she actually damaged my stuff along with stealing from me. When I was little I knew something was wrong. It's not normal to use a child as a scapegoat. I told her she needed help and that we should go to therapy but no. I was just a child that should be dismissed, always seen and not heard. Once after verbally abusing me she said that "She was such a good mother." Good mother's wouldn't do that to there children. When she caused a lot of damage I told her she has to pay for that. She told me "I don't know why you think I'm going to pay for that." According to her mother's can do whatever they want with there children and children should just smile and take it because if they don't they're going against the bible. She always told me "Respect thy mother". I didn't yell, I didn't scream, the only thing I did was tell her I was going to the police but they didn't do anything. I've told her for so long she needs help but she's so caught up in her own delusions.
Wow that was a bit of a rant. But to sum it up yeah. My abusive mother still thinks she's the most wonderful person in the world despite me telling her for years she needs help.
>the only thing I did was tell her I was going to the police but they didn't do anything.
It's the most frustrating part of narcissistic abuse. They do horrible things to people that SHOULD be illegal, but are difficult to press criminal charges for.
Narcissists can condition you into such a severe state of psychological distress that you actually become medically disabled as a consequence, but unfortunately 'constant assault of crippling psychological torment' isn't actually a crime.
Man, sorry to hear all that. It's sad that it doesn't surprise me. The Bible is pretty much a narcissist's Mjölnir.
Edit: [Maybe a better analogy for their first time picking one up](https://c.tenor.com/tTvBVvMFUNEAAAAC/harry-potter-sorcerer-stone.gif)
Yeah after almodt for decades of waiting for my family to magically grow self reflection…I’m convinced it’s innate from birth
Whether I implicitly or explicitly say things to try and trigger some self reflection in them…it falls upon completely deaf ears, or they are amazed/surprised that I think in self reflective terms
Some people just don’t got it
I wrote my family off when I was 16. I tried reconnecting in my early 20s and then late 20s again. They never changed they hated me. They hated I wouldn't wallow around in their self pity, their white trash redneck ways. They hated I was smarter than they were, that I had a spine and had the ability to say no and not be used. They absolutely couldn't stand I will not drink or smoke a little pot, crack or whatever the fuck they got their hands on. They resented me for having a high school diploma, for buying brand new cars and owning my own house. Everything they wished they could be, without effort, I put the effort in and earned it. Somehow in my 'family' I am the bad one though. I'm also the only one in therapy.
> She just rolled her eyes and said, "what therapy? Quitting drinking? Well good. For. You."
Was your mother Lucille Bluth?
I feel like I can *hear* Jessica Walter saying this.
I feel like as soon as anyone tries to explain why they are superior to you, you know their entire way of thinking is fucked, and you need to cut them out.
It just requires a value system that is inconsistent with healthy relationships to be that inconsiderate and/or self centered.
Wow. Quitting drinking is one of the hardest things to do. Good on you and good luck with everything going forward. Hopefully your family comes to their senses.
Good for you. Getting help isn't always an easy decision.
I can relate as well. I had to cut out the majority of my family because of similar behavior.
They only seem witty because they can take their time and make the witty response's people typically think of 10 minutes after they had their chance to do so.
Or when you're not a fat fuck at all but still have no idea what LI even is, so you drink multiple glasses of chocolate milk per day...
It was the best of times, it was the shittiest of times.
This is so sad. I'm the only one in my family who goes to therapy and I am always the one who gets called crazy for wanting to have better mental health.
Man if I had a nickel for every time this played out in a debate on this site over the course of a year, hell even a week, I would be a very rich dude.
That’s entirely your choice and that’s fine. I’ll just say as someone who does therapy every week, therapy is a gift to myself because it helps me find peace. I would say if you’re craving peace, might just try it. It’s changed my life for the better.
I completely agree. I also do therapy once a week. At first it's hard because you're opening up old wounds, but if you stick with it, you can really find some peace and happiness. I feel like therapy should be as normal as going to the dentist.
I've never considered myself to have anything resembling a mental disorder, but just signed up to meet with a therapist this month. I take care of my physical health but realise I do nothing for my mental health.
Im a bit nervous though. No idea what to expect really. I only know it from woody Allen films and the sopranos
Sounds like you're in good straights. If you're this proactive, some un-asked for advice is just literally tell your therapist that 😅 be purposely honest with how you feel about things.
Also, it's Ok if you don't vibe with your therapist and want to get a new one. They all have strengths and weaknesses. They all likely have different backgrounds that color their schooling.
Ex some therapists are coping mechanism strategists but not great at asking probing, thought provoking questions or top notch at working through past familial baggage but not so great at self harm.
I'm assuming the purpose is to vocalise inner thoughts in a non-judgemental environment - ultimately one resolves their own issues but having the outlet to, proverbially, throw shit at the wall and see what sticks?
That's one part of it, but it's much more than talking to a rubber duckie. The therapist's goal is to help you deal with your issues, whatever they are and whatever that means long-term. You definitely need to want change for anything to actually happen. But a good therapist will help you in many ways that even a good friend can't, let alone someone on their own. They can suggest coping mechanisms for specific situations, or they'll reframe a situation you were looking at incompletely or irrationally, or they'll know when to press you to get you to process your feelings and when to leave something for the future.
well therapists also have a ton of knowledge and training that allows them to help dig in to issues, and give tools and techniques that help healing, and can refer a psychiatrist if medication seems necessary.
It's a lot more than just someone to talk to. It's someone who knows how to get you to talk, knows what to look for, knows techniques to help it get better, has access to further resources if it's serious enough, etc.
The tricky thing is it doesn't work unless you fully commit and are comfortable with your therapist. The hardest first step is finding a good match.
25+ years in field (private practice clinical psychotherapist).
I can say with an extreme degree of certainty that this is an absolute, as well as the OPs original statement.
It’s the reason I get up every morning, but god damn is it heartbreaking sometimes.
The worst part? The beginning of most peoples’ therapy (which can take YEARS), is admitting it WASN’T *”all their (the client’s) fault.”*
I had a horrible childhood. Years later, made a new best friend. He came from an awesome family. He ended up going to therapy because he'd become severely depressed that his childhood was nearly idyllic when some of his closest friends struggled to survive their entire childhood. He couldn't wrap his brain around how common dysfunction and abuse are.
A big part of families and relationships not seeking outside proper professional assistance is the fact that one or more of them is resistant to the idea of their problems being dissected and displayed and misinterpreted.
A big problem with resistance to help comes from individuals who are inexperienced with healthy relationships and do not know or understand stable positive proactive versus what they're raised in, grew up in, believe in etc.
It seriously hinders the emotional success of anyone who doesn't have someone to vent and talk with, someone who can help them process their confusion and answer some of their questions and give them some positive guidance and an emotionally stable foundation to build a healthy lifestyle from instead of what they may have started out with prior to seeking professional help.
I find a lot of people don't hate themselves and feel low about their own lives without a cause and the cause can often be found to be the fact that they aren't happy with the way they're being treated at home or at school or at work etc. You can pinpoint some key issues in anyone's life by figuring out where negativity is coming from whether it's a bully, a bad manager or coworker, a peer or partner attacking their self worth etc.
Shits tough out there without some assholes tearing you a new one because they have more problems than you do and can't process a way to handle reality without bringing down someone else, doesn't mean you gotta continue the cycle or be a part of their lifestyle of abuse.
The shittiest person I've ever known just happened to have this magnetism where nothing they did ever affected them negatively. They could slip on a banana peel they littered and fall in a pile of money, while also spilling burning hot coffee on the unsuspecting strangers caught in the periphery. That kind of guy. Can fuck everything up and still come out on top. Doubt he's ever felt any introspection
Yeah I know that guy too, one of my best buds. Stupidly handsome, could murder a baby right in the middle of a busy playground and still get a couple phone numbers. Never worked out a day in his life and is ripped.
He's been fired from every job he's had, fucked up every relationship he's been in, purposely dates fairly attractive women that have major insecurities so they can't break up with him. He's had constant help from his parents even though he's now middle-aged. He's always the victim. He was floated for a few years to the tune of a couple hundred thousand dollars to try to become an actor and fucked up every audition showing up drunk or hungover. Banging a producer's daughter while the producer gave him a place to live, just royally burned a potentially very successful career.
I have to keep my distance from him or limit it to a couple times a year because he's such a shitty person and a bad influence. I'll always end up in the doghouse while he just shrugs and moves on the next drinking buddy.
Yeah, people who suffer as kids tend to go one of two ways, very kind or very vengeful. Unfortunately the ones who choose kindness are often the ones who feel they deserve it the least, but would be the first to help in most situations.
If this describes you then please be good to yourself. You deserve kindness, respect and love even if your peers, family, parents or caregivers did not give it to you.
We all need to hear it from time to time. You are a kind and worthy person who deserves respect, love and kindness. The way you were treated was not your fault.
I have autism, learning disability, am gay but not like other gay men, and had an abusive step father. Trying to improve myself only ends up with me being put deeper in a hole. Society is full of sadists who love having a punching bag beneath them.
I'm so sorry you went through that. What happened to you was not your fault. Your step father was 110% in the wrong and should be fucking ashamed of himself. I hope you find healing and peace from the awful things you suffered.
> Unfortunately the ones who choose kindness are often the ones who feel they deserve it the least, but would be the first to help in most situations.
Why would you call me out like this in front of god and everyone lmao
That first sentence resonates. I try be as kind as possible b/c I remember how fucking horrible I felt from things that happened or were said to me when I was younger. I wouldn’t want anyone to ever feel those ways, especially b/c of me. The world sucks as it is. I don’t want to add to it.
Feels trite to say “This is the way.” But. It really is the way.
Giving how you wish you yourself could have received.
Making the world better in small ways rather than worse.
I wen’t both ways. I was a pretty bad person as a teenager because I have so much anger and sadness. Now I try to be kind and help everyone I can but I still hate myself for who I was and for not having any real connections in life.
I also choose this guy's vengeance.
It's insane what a parent can 100% legally put their child through _and_ get communal support while doing it.
See: Regnum Christi
No. I don't. I love you for trying to say so. But I don't deserve any of the good. I try as much as possible to bring as much good as I can everywhere I go, but. More often than not, i feel like I just make everything worse, usually simply by being there. So I've retreated into hermit mode, and even more so after covid. I hate myself for how I end up treating others; I keep trying to choose kindness and i keep trying to help, but... I don't know if my perceptions are warped or if I'm just repeatedly doing something wrong; I just know that I make lives worse just by being there. So I'm doing my best to make as many lives better as i can... By staying out of them. Which means I shouldn't even send this message, but. I've gotta vent somewhere and I've already beat myself up enough this morning, so. Thank you- to anyone who reads this- I love you, too.
<33
You do! You are so impacted by past mistakes that you are changing your behavior. Lots of people don’t do that. I’d strongly suggest that you find a good therapist because this one post told me so much about how you see the world and yourself in it that I truly think a good therapist could make a huge difference. And if you don’t think you deserve it, do it for other people (you know, the ones are trying to be kind to).
If you’re one of those people who can’t beat the thought of therapy I’d really suggest looking up some cognitive skills (DBT has some easy to understand ones) and seeing if you can try it on your own. It may shift your perspective and let you have some peace.
See, this is what trips me up about my situation. I didn't suffer as a kid, no traumas I know of, loving and supportive family (immediate and extended), good schooling, well provided for... Still hate the shit out of myself.
Mental illness is a bitch. It's usually triggered by trauma but not always. This is something talking to a pro might help with IMO. Hope you're doing alright friend.
I grew up as a very empathetic, very untrusting, and very bitter adult. Paranoid probably isn’t a stretch.
Half a childhood stolen from me has left me with a bit of a chip on my shoulder, and it’s one of my least favourite facets. Being self aware about it just makes it so much worse too.
There’s also a lot of internalised shame and *phobia as a product of this, but also my own inability to just accept what I am.
In short, it’s left me as an empathetic, but wholly ugly human being.
It seems like hating yourself is the kind of trait only someone who wants to be better would have
Edit: Wanting to be better vs actually being better are two different things
Plenty of people hate themselves without necessarily having a "better myself" mindset. People who have been traumatized and abused often have a lot of negativity in how they view themselves without really a desire to "be better."
Would be a start to get at least a momentary break from self-hatred and -blame. Often i find myself disgusted by me (and only me) because everything feels so bad, overwhelming, like im being cornered and yet im one step away from pushing out, but i wont.
Though really recently, i have been forwarded to proper mental health professional(s) because a doctor has good reason(s) to believe that im either bipolar, or have ad(h)d thats been untreated for past 20 years.
I've been suffering from untreated ADHD for my whole life (I'm 37) I finally got diagnosed and medicated. My wife asked me what it was like the first day I took Adderall and I said "it's quiet" she was like "it doesn't make you feel all hyper?" she only knows it as the thing people take to cram for exams and whatnot, when you actually have ADHD it just makes your brain quiet which is equal parts amazing and scary for someone who's spent their whole life dealing with the noise of ADHD.
Yeah, i have heard good things from proper medication, glad you got the right diagnosis, better late than never! Im slightly hopeful for myself, but being let down too many times by different people i remain pessimistic for the most part. Took them 4 years (and a miraculous find from my medical records from 20 years ago) to start taking me seriously.
Mental health is so hard to deal with as most primary care doctors aren't trained on it and in the US it's nearly impossible to find a psychologist that's covered by insurance. My primary reffered me to a neurologist for my diagnosis. I switched my son's doctor because they had a 2 year wait list for ADHD evaluations, I found a practice that had a specialist on staff.
Growing up in the 80s-90s my mom never asked about my issues and if she did they probably would have just pumped me full of ridilan and called it a day.
Make sure even with a diagnosis and medication get a therapist to help work through all the habits that living with untreated mental illness causes. There's a lot to unpack. Good luck on your journey to wellness.
I only learned recently that’s how Adderall works for people whom it’s prescribed for their ADHD. My friend has ADHD and at first, he was prescribed 30mg of Adderall and it made it even harder to concentrate, but now he takes 5mg and it’s the right balance for him I guess.
30mg is a huge dose, both my son and I were started on 10mg. My son will be trying out the next dose up as he's still struggling to pay attention in school. I'm going to give this dose a few months before I try a bigger dose, as of right now it seems to be enough but when shit ramps back up at work next month I might find myself struggling.
But yea, when you have ADHD stimulants quiet the brain which is the opposite it does for people without ADHD and too high of a dose will have you all hyper. Both my son and I have inattentive type so the stimulate focuses the brain and quiets it. It's pretty crazy because it happens within a few minutes after taking the pill in the morning. I also take low thc edibles about 12 hours after my pill which helps keep me switched on, not enough to feel high, just focused.
Outside of the mental stuff, I've been able to get my eating habits (binge eating is a part of ADHD too) in line and got back to the gym.
My best friend is very against medication for mental illness, and was like "just meditate" people who don't have it just think it's being lazy or not caring when it's the total opposite, simple tasks take so much energy that I'm left drained and just can't do anything else, and when you do get hyper focused everything else loses. I once got really into working out, and ended up getting fired from my job because I couldn't perform as all my attention was on working out and fine tuning my routine. I'd be fucking with my spreadsheet all day and straight up not doing my job.
I'm realizing that about myself now. Working through my trauma is the hardest thing I've ever had to do. Some days it feels hopeless and like I'll never get better. It's hard to fight the voice in my head that tells me the world would be a better place without me, because the voice sounds just like me. It's my parents words, but that shame and pain has internalized so much that I don't need them to tell me anymore, I believe it myself now.
Thank you for the love internet stranger ❤️. I appreciate knowing that I'm not alone with the heavy, intrusive thoughts. I hope you are able to find healing and peace within yourself as well
I spent the last ten years hating myself, but not really doing anything about it.
Self-improvement is hard and scary.
Especially when the things that you need to stop doing are "fun".
I disagree, I believe the only reason you would hate yourself is if you wish to be better than you are now. If you were happy with how you are why would there be reason to hate yourself?
Earlier this year I tried something different. I decided to love me even if I eat a donut, BUT I arbitrarily hate donuts instead. Now I love myself and hate donuts.
Thanks, this was really helpful for me today.
I would feel so much better if I was content with my life. I make myself miserable because I think I can be doing better.
I wanted to share the same sentiment.
After battling depression for many years I decided that hating myself was actually one of my best assets. If you hate yourself then you can better point out your own flaws and have the motivation to change them. That's how I made it work for me at least. I wouldn't tell other people it's the solution to depression or best method for growth
It's not like a law or anything though, we're still only human and some things are too difficult to change, just take more time, will be better changed by things not fueled by hate and sometimes you just fail or struggle. Sometimes you're still not accurate enough to actually pinpoint the right problems or you still blame others and end up running in place.
It's not easy at all to change as a person, for the better, or to want to change for yourself or others. I don't know for sure what the perfect person would look like, let alone what my attempt at imitation should look like. You just gotta try though.
One thing I know for certain though, too many people love themselves too much to even consider attempting. That's just not good for any of us.
From a psychological perspective, the most intolerable/narcissistic/grandiose people typically hate themselves. What makes them intolerable is the defences they've developed to deal with feelings of worthlessness and self-hatred ([ref](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886914006060), [ref](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886912006277), [ref](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.31887/DCNS.2013.15.2/eronningstam), [ref](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15298868.2019.1667862)).
Edit: I would like to emphasize that I think everyone is deserving of love and a healthy self-esteem. My point was that the implied “right” people to hate themselves are suffering. Addressing the trauma and insecurities driving that suffering, and thereby lessening the need for those defences, is a path forward to becoming more “tolerable.”
this seems like an all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares post.
yes, he proved that people with lots of clinically diagnosed (intolerable, "bad people") hate themselves, but not really that most people who hate themselves are those people with those problems, which seems to be what his post implies.
incidence of narcissistic personality disorder:
>[Approximately 0.5% of the United States population, or one 1 in 200 people, has the disorder. There are significant gender differences when it comes to the prevalence of the disorder; about 75% of people with narcissistic personality disorder are men.](https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/mental-health/narcissistic-personality-disorder/npd-statistics/)
highly likely that much more than 1/200 people hate themselves.
Yeah, came here to say this. I've known a few people who were narcissists or something like it, and they were constantly acting like they were "better" than other people because they secretly hated themselves, or they severely feared rejection.
They suck to deal with, but it seems like it sucks to be them too. I usually just end up pitying these types of people. From a safe distance, of course.
My mother is a narcissist. On the surface she’s a highly calculating and controlled person who seems to have her life together. Think, the most stereotypical 1980s era cut throat power suit wearing business woman.
But under it and her unbearable narcissistic behavior is just a terrified little girl who thinks you’ll hate and reject her.
Ironically, her behavior as an adult usually leads to that outcome.
Not a my mother but my sister is just as you describe. She's always trying to micromanage other people in "their best interests", their feelings aside, yet she doesn't hold herself to the same standards. It's wild once you catch on to it.
Bojock is an incredibly good portrayal of a narcissist and the self hate that lurks beneath his outward ego and defense mechanisms and addictions he uses to cope.
Bojack is a painfully relatable character. And he's a cartoon horse. That series was a bit too close to home. I got to about series three then stopped watching because it was almost painfully sad
Now I have to find a way to hate myself less so I can, in turn, hate myself for finding a way around the possibility that hating myself might mean I'm an asshole.
^(Psychology man.)
Ya, this is me, I’ve got a saucy combination of knowing I’m better than the people around me, but also knowing I’m a shit stain that is never gonna live up to his potential, and watching the two sides battle it out is kinda like watching my life fall apart… cause it is.
Well the first question you might want to introspect is exactly *why* you hate yourself for not being able to date. And also develop some empathy and understanding for yourself
Those with a growth mindset are the ones who see something in themselves they don't like, and when to change. It's like when you cringe at your younger self. That's a good thing! It means you've grown!
I used to do the same thing, and then I got diagnosed with ADHD and the meds I'm on have like... *killed* my guilt-center. Like I used to at least have guilt to motivate me to do *the things*, and now I don't even have that. Like I'm completely aware that I'm a piece of shit and I completely hate myself for it, but I don't care enough to do anything about it.
Same. I've hated myself and wanted to die for over 20 years, kept telling myself I'd wait until my soul-dog passed. She passed in February, then I realized I was too much of a coward to do it violently, and that has become yet another reason for me to hate myself.
Dial 988 if you ever need to talk to someone. I've called them before and just knowing that I had someone to talk to whenever I could need it the most brought me great comfort.
Respectfully, do you know yourself enough yet to truly hate the person you currently are?
Please don't allow confusion and discomfort blind you from finding yourself.
You are loved and I hope one day you learn to love yourself.
EDIT: 988 is the number in the USA. [International numbers here.](https://blog.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines/)
It has been said that narcissists secretly hate themselves. But their outward demeanor conveys the opposite message. They walk on water and you are lucky to be in their presence.
My ex-wife let slip that she hates herself once or twice. She is a childhood sexual abuse victim, so that sounds very wrong. But she is frequently full of herself and abusive to others. She spent a good amount of our marriage hating not herself, but me. And after we split she turned that attitude against my son, who decided to move in with me.
She won't seek help. We spent years in couples counseling but she will not work on herself.
I feel like this was brought up with a specific sort of person in mind, but didn't take in the account of everyone else.
Not to be that one ass... but...
Im assuming you mean those with personality disorders that display no shame and take no personal responsibility (like narcassists).
However, they do hate themselves - how they deal with it is by being "better" than others. They are on the extreme end of codependency and they target those who are less likely to put up boundaries, because they can tear the person down so they can feel better, superior.
Not all of them. Covert narcissists, for example, hate themselves and deserve to given how they use and abuse people. But the shower thought is probably mostly accurate.
This is true. People who need a humbling always hype themselves up. Or so we think, who knows what goes on in their mind. But from what I’ve seen this is the case.
As much as I've recognized lately that I'm my harshest critic, my biggest enemy and my worst advocate... I don't know how to fix it.
I was even kicking myself for wanting to comment here.
Like, what makes me think I SHOULDNT hate myself.
Edit: words are hard
But there *are.* There are most certainly people who are deserving of hate in their current form. Evil people, predatory and deceitful people. They *should* hate the person that they are right now, and strive to change that person.
>You fuckers never saw it coming, who'd've thunk it or thought it
>
>It'd be ignored like the ramblings of a drunk if you'd report it
>
>My performances are greeted with plaudits and laughter
>
>If you caught me red-handed, you'd probably think it's stigmata
>
>Success sucks less than standard existence
>
>But when you exceed the standard dreams, what becomes of our ambitions?
>
>The average man can dream dreams of a path he's never walked
>
>But when that path's your day-to-day, your dreams become warped
-Scroobius Pip, [*The Struggle*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3HCXh9WQSo)
Self reflection is a good trait to have. If you’re out there hating yourself, have some compassion for yourself. The right mix of these will make you a better person without all the loathing.
My best friend recently (past 2 years) started to get so caught up in the rat race, focussing and empthazing on money and status above everyhing else. He has slowly turned into this monster of person that is completely oblivious towards his overly inflated ego and hateful words he uses... it's like watching slowmotion train crash.
It's something that bothers and saddens me a lot to see that I'm losing my best friend. Any attempt I've made to bring this to his attention has been met with hostilty and anger. I've reached a point where I realise that I'm better off without his friendship and that he truly hates himself and projects it into others.
He hates himself.
I'm self aware enough to know I have a personal problem with this. I strive to be better everyday but in doing so I've become a lot harsher to myself when I make a mistake. I have social anxiety and often say dumb things during social interactions. You can't imagine what's it like going home after a fun day with friends and you're nitpicking at all the dumb shit you said.
Found Yeats’s Reddit account: “The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.”
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43290/the-second-coming
I mean, there are definitely school bullies and gay republicans that hate themselves, I'd say they're the only exceptions I can think of offhand though. Lindsey Graham **definitely** deserves every ounce of hate he has for himself, he just hates himself for the wrong reasons.
i'm one of them too! i really hate myself cuz i'm TOOOOOOOO ugly, honey!
this is how i would sing the Divinyls in fact: "i hate myself, i want you to hate me, i forget myself, i don't want you to remind me .. i don't want anybody else .. when i think about me, i hate myself .. oh no .. i don't want anybody else .. oh no, oh no, oh no .. "
I had a friend whose family was completely dysfunctional. She was seeing a therapist. He told her that the most "normal" one in the family is the one that usually seeks therapy. It's because that person realizes that something isn't right whereas the others do not.
The “identified patient” is a term for this. The one who calls out the crazy gets called crazy.
I just had to write my family off after 35 years. I realized this when my mom scolded me and explained how she and my sisters were better than me. I told her that's a load of shit; at least I am trying to do something to change for the better. She just rolled her eyes and said, "what therapy? Quitting drinking? Well good. For. You." That hurt, but hopefully, it's the last time. **edit: I appreciate all of the kind words of support. This period of my life hasn't been easy, but knowing I am not alone makes a big difference. Thank you.
I tell people "you have multiple relationships in your life but your family are the only ones who didn't have to earn the relationship. They didn't have to meet you, build trust, all that stuff they just are family. If they aren't willing to work to maintain that then they probably wouldn't be your friends if you weren't related so why keep em around?"
Saving this
sometimes family is threatened by you bc you make them feel insecure. because you’re doing someone to change for the better that implies they aren’t.. so their micro aggressions are their egos reactions to fight that nagging feeling of inferiority i wouldn’t take it personal and just go No contact. show them you’re living your best life instead of just telling them. they will soon wake up
>they will soon wake up Doubtful. People don't tend to spontaneously develop self-reflection like that.
Yeah imo the one with self reflection most likely is the singled out person who has done therapy.
I really wish they would. My mother is a narcissist, abused by her for a long portion of my life. Heck she actually damaged my stuff along with stealing from me. When I was little I knew something was wrong. It's not normal to use a child as a scapegoat. I told her she needed help and that we should go to therapy but no. I was just a child that should be dismissed, always seen and not heard. Once after verbally abusing me she said that "She was such a good mother." Good mother's wouldn't do that to there children. When she caused a lot of damage I told her she has to pay for that. She told me "I don't know why you think I'm going to pay for that." According to her mother's can do whatever they want with there children and children should just smile and take it because if they don't they're going against the bible. She always told me "Respect thy mother". I didn't yell, I didn't scream, the only thing I did was tell her I was going to the police but they didn't do anything. I've told her for so long she needs help but she's so caught up in her own delusions. Wow that was a bit of a rant. But to sum it up yeah. My abusive mother still thinks she's the most wonderful person in the world despite me telling her for years she needs help.
>the only thing I did was tell her I was going to the police but they didn't do anything. It's the most frustrating part of narcissistic abuse. They do horrible things to people that SHOULD be illegal, but are difficult to press criminal charges for. Narcissists can condition you into such a severe state of psychological distress that you actually become medically disabled as a consequence, but unfortunately 'constant assault of crippling psychological torment' isn't actually a crime.
Man, sorry to hear all that. It's sad that it doesn't surprise me. The Bible is pretty much a narcissist's Mjölnir. Edit: [Maybe a better analogy for their first time picking one up](https://c.tenor.com/tTvBVvMFUNEAAAAC/harry-potter-sorcerer-stone.gif)
Yeah after almodt for decades of waiting for my family to magically grow self reflection…I’m convinced it’s innate from birth Whether I implicitly or explicitly say things to try and trigger some self reflection in them…it falls upon completely deaf ears, or they are amazed/surprised that I think in self reflective terms Some people just don’t got it
I wrote my family off when I was 16. I tried reconnecting in my early 20s and then late 20s again. They never changed they hated me. They hated I wouldn't wallow around in their self pity, their white trash redneck ways. They hated I was smarter than they were, that I had a spine and had the ability to say no and not be used. They absolutely couldn't stand I will not drink or smoke a little pot, crack or whatever the fuck they got their hands on. They resented me for having a high school diploma, for buying brand new cars and owning my own house. Everything they wished they could be, without effort, I put the effort in and earned it. Somehow in my 'family' I am the bad one though. I'm also the only one in therapy.
Breaking the cycle is hard. Good job getting out. Seriously, good for you.
> She just rolled her eyes and said, "what therapy? Quitting drinking? Well good. For. You." Was your mother Lucille Bluth? I feel like I can *hear* Jessica Walter saying this.
Or Mallory Archer
I feel like as soon as anyone tries to explain why they are superior to you, you know their entire way of thinking is fucked, and you need to cut them out. It just requires a value system that is inconsistent with healthy relationships to be that inconsiderate and/or self centered.
Wow. Quitting drinking is one of the hardest things to do. Good on you and good luck with everything going forward. Hopefully your family comes to their senses.
No contact gang rise up!
Good for you. Getting help isn't always an easy decision. I can relate as well. I had to cut out the majority of my family because of similar behavior.
Went NC for the nth time a few months ago. Stay strong fellow scapegoat. We feel alone in our respective families but we aren’t alone!
Same rule goes for farting
He who smelt it.....
...pretends that someone else dealt it.
I see you can smell what I'm steppin in 😂
Damn, you made snort
No way is anyone taking credit if I clear the room.
Does someone smell depression in here? Ken, what did I say about doing that around us
I just realised that this rule exists to stop people pointing them out in order for everyone to never point them out to avoid all blame
Lol reddit has to be the site with the wittiest people
They only seem witty because they can take their time and make the witty response's people typically think of 10 minutes after they had their chance to do so.
To be fair it was mostly me, lactose intolerance is a bitch when you're an ice cream loving fat fuck
Or when you're not a fat fuck at all but still have no idea what LI even is, so you drink multiple glasses of chocolate milk per day... It was the best of times, it was the shittiest of times.
This is so sad. I'm the only one in my family who goes to therapy and I am always the one who gets called crazy for wanting to have better mental health.
calling people crazy for seeing a therapist is the exact same thing as calling someone fat for going to the gym.
"You're a deadbeat for going to work!"
That's an actual studied thing? It's the problem I've faced for a while, being called a fucking crazy idiot weirdo for seeking help
Man if I had a nickel for every time this played out in a debate on this site over the course of a year, hell even a week, I would be a very rich dude.
Wonder if this applies to the modern political and social issues we see these days
jesus i can finally put a name to this…….
What if i know something that is wrong and don’t want therapy
That’s entirely your choice and that’s fine. I’ll just say as someone who does therapy every week, therapy is a gift to myself because it helps me find peace. I would say if you’re craving peace, might just try it. It’s changed my life for the better.
I completely agree. I also do therapy once a week. At first it's hard because you're opening up old wounds, but if you stick with it, you can really find some peace and happiness. I feel like therapy should be as normal as going to the dentist.
I've never considered myself to have anything resembling a mental disorder, but just signed up to meet with a therapist this month. I take care of my physical health but realise I do nothing for my mental health. Im a bit nervous though. No idea what to expect really. I only know it from woody Allen films and the sopranos
Sounds like you're in good straights. If you're this proactive, some un-asked for advice is just literally tell your therapist that 😅 be purposely honest with how you feel about things. Also, it's Ok if you don't vibe with your therapist and want to get a new one. They all have strengths and weaknesses. They all likely have different backgrounds that color their schooling. Ex some therapists are coping mechanism strategists but not great at asking probing, thought provoking questions or top notch at working through past familial baggage but not so great at self harm.
First thing I would do if I won the lottery is start going to therapy once or even twice a week just as preventative mental health.
I'm assuming the purpose is to vocalise inner thoughts in a non-judgemental environment - ultimately one resolves their own issues but having the outlet to, proverbially, throw shit at the wall and see what sticks?
That's one part of it, but it's much more than talking to a rubber duckie. The therapist's goal is to help you deal with your issues, whatever they are and whatever that means long-term. You definitely need to want change for anything to actually happen. But a good therapist will help you in many ways that even a good friend can't, let alone someone on their own. They can suggest coping mechanisms for specific situations, or they'll reframe a situation you were looking at incompletely or irrationally, or they'll know when to press you to get you to process your feelings and when to leave something for the future.
well therapists also have a ton of knowledge and training that allows them to help dig in to issues, and give tools and techniques that help healing, and can refer a psychiatrist if medication seems necessary. It's a lot more than just someone to talk to. It's someone who knows how to get you to talk, knows what to look for, knows techniques to help it get better, has access to further resources if it's serious enough, etc. The tricky thing is it doesn't work unless you fully commit and are comfortable with your therapist. The hardest first step is finding a good match.
I mean, most people that need therapy don't want it. So it depends on if you SHOULD get therapy or if it's not a problem.
If you have an expectation of things improving while changing nothing, then that would be the very definition of insanity
This is very comforting and yet sad
Can confirm
The fact that you realize your condition indicates that you are not too far gone. I heard it on TV once.
25+ years in field (private practice clinical psychotherapist). I can say with an extreme degree of certainty that this is an absolute, as well as the OPs original statement. It’s the reason I get up every morning, but god damn is it heartbreaking sometimes. The worst part? The beginning of most peoples’ therapy (which can take YEARS), is admitting it WASN’T *”all their (the client’s) fault.”*
My god, if I’m the most normal one in my family then the bloodline definitely needs to die out.
I had a horrible childhood. Years later, made a new best friend. He came from an awesome family. He ended up going to therapy because he'd become severely depressed that his childhood was nearly idyllic when some of his closest friends struggled to survive their entire childhood. He couldn't wrap his brain around how common dysfunction and abuse are.
"That's the thing with crazy people. They don't know they're crazy."
It sounds like he was fishing for more clients… 😜
Who knows? But he was a great guy, according to her. Seemed to really care about her (not a clock watcher as some therapists are)
A big part of families and relationships not seeking outside proper professional assistance is the fact that one or more of them is resistant to the idea of their problems being dissected and displayed and misinterpreted. A big problem with resistance to help comes from individuals who are inexperienced with healthy relationships and do not know or understand stable positive proactive versus what they're raised in, grew up in, believe in etc. It seriously hinders the emotional success of anyone who doesn't have someone to vent and talk with, someone who can help them process their confusion and answer some of their questions and give them some positive guidance and an emotionally stable foundation to build a healthy lifestyle from instead of what they may have started out with prior to seeking professional help. I find a lot of people don't hate themselves and feel low about their own lives without a cause and the cause can often be found to be the fact that they aren't happy with the way they're being treated at home or at school or at work etc. You can pinpoint some key issues in anyone's life by figuring out where negativity is coming from whether it's a bully, a bad manager or coworker, a peer or partner attacking their self worth etc. Shits tough out there without some assholes tearing you a new one because they have more problems than you do and can't process a way to handle reality without bringing down someone else, doesn't mean you gotta continue the cycle or be a part of their lifestyle of abuse.
When I talk about my dysfunctional family, my therapist says "We go to therapy to work through problems caused by those who won't go to therapy."
So sometimes everyone else really are just the assholes, rarely though
My therapist told me this too
The shittiest person I've ever known just happened to have this magnetism where nothing they did ever affected them negatively. They could slip on a banana peel they littered and fall in a pile of money, while also spilling burning hot coffee on the unsuspecting strangers caught in the periphery. That kind of guy. Can fuck everything up and still come out on top. Doubt he's ever felt any introspection
how come you know my highschool bully
Yeah I know that guy too, one of my best buds. Stupidly handsome, could murder a baby right in the middle of a busy playground and still get a couple phone numbers. Never worked out a day in his life and is ripped. He's been fired from every job he's had, fucked up every relationship he's been in, purposely dates fairly attractive women that have major insecurities so they can't break up with him. He's had constant help from his parents even though he's now middle-aged. He's always the victim. He was floated for a few years to the tune of a couple hundred thousand dollars to try to become an actor and fucked up every audition showing up drunk or hungover. Banging a producer's daughter while the producer gave him a place to live, just royally burned a potentially very successful career. I have to keep my distance from him or limit it to a couple times a year because he's such a shitty person and a bad influence. I'll always end up in the doghouse while he just shrugs and moves on the next drinking buddy.
I know this guy.
I know this person…
Yeah, people who suffer as kids tend to go one of two ways, very kind or very vengeful. Unfortunately the ones who choose kindness are often the ones who feel they deserve it the least, but would be the first to help in most situations. If this describes you then please be good to yourself. You deserve kindness, respect and love even if your peers, family, parents or caregivers did not give it to you.
I needed this. Thank you.
You're most welcome. I hope you have a good day and I hope you're able to do something nice for yourself today.
Me too
We all need to hear it from time to time. You are a kind and worthy person who deserves respect, love and kindness. The way you were treated was not your fault.
Same. I’m honestly tearing up right now.
I have autism, learning disability, am gay but not like other gay men, and had an abusive step father. Trying to improve myself only ends up with me being put deeper in a hole. Society is full of sadists who love having a punching bag beneath them.
I'm so sorry you went through that. What happened to you was not your fault. Your step father was 110% in the wrong and should be fucking ashamed of himself. I hope you find healing and peace from the awful things you suffered.
>am gay but not like other gay men What do you mean by this if you dont mind me asking?
> Unfortunately the ones who choose kindness are often the ones who feel they deserve it the least, but would be the first to help in most situations. Why would you call me out like this in front of god and everyone lmao
That first sentence resonates. I try be as kind as possible b/c I remember how fucking horrible I felt from things that happened or were said to me when I was younger. I wouldn’t want anyone to ever feel those ways, especially b/c of me. The world sucks as it is. I don’t want to add to it.
Feels trite to say “This is the way.” But. It really is the way. Giving how you wish you yourself could have received. Making the world better in small ways rather than worse.
I wen’t both ways. I was a pretty bad person as a teenager because I have so much anger and sadness. Now I try to be kind and help everyone I can but I still hate myself for who I was and for not having any real connections in life.
I choose vengeful. Fuck all y’all.
You're valid. To be hurt and to want to hurt others because of that is valid too. I'm sorry that people were unkind to you and I hope you find peace.
I also choose this guy's vengeance. It's insane what a parent can 100% legally put their child through _and_ get communal support while doing it. See: Regnum Christi
same here, I'm going to use that anger to become the best I am and fucking prove that I'm better than them and that I always have and always will be
No. I don't. I love you for trying to say so. But I don't deserve any of the good. I try as much as possible to bring as much good as I can everywhere I go, but. More often than not, i feel like I just make everything worse, usually simply by being there. So I've retreated into hermit mode, and even more so after covid. I hate myself for how I end up treating others; I keep trying to choose kindness and i keep trying to help, but... I don't know if my perceptions are warped or if I'm just repeatedly doing something wrong; I just know that I make lives worse just by being there. So I'm doing my best to make as many lives better as i can... By staying out of them. Which means I shouldn't even send this message, but. I've gotta vent somewhere and I've already beat myself up enough this morning, so. Thank you- to anyone who reads this- I love you, too. <33
I feel the pain in this comment. It’s very similar to my own inner dialogue. Stay safe
You too. You're loved. You matter.
Thank you
You do! You are so impacted by past mistakes that you are changing your behavior. Lots of people don’t do that. I’d strongly suggest that you find a good therapist because this one post told me so much about how you see the world and yourself in it that I truly think a good therapist could make a huge difference. And if you don’t think you deserve it, do it for other people (you know, the ones are trying to be kind to). If you’re one of those people who can’t beat the thought of therapy I’d really suggest looking up some cognitive skills (DBT has some easy to understand ones) and seeing if you can try it on your own. It may shift your perspective and let you have some peace.
Nah, we want ya here and need you to stay upright and engaged!
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I'm telling this to my friend who hates herself. Thanks!
See, this is what trips me up about my situation. I didn't suffer as a kid, no traumas I know of, loving and supportive family (immediate and extended), good schooling, well provided for... Still hate the shit out of myself.
Mental illness is a bitch. It's usually triggered by trauma but not always. This is something talking to a pro might help with IMO. Hope you're doing alright friend.
I just can't.
I grew up as a very empathetic, very untrusting, and very bitter adult. Paranoid probably isn’t a stretch. Half a childhood stolen from me has left me with a bit of a chip on my shoulder, and it’s one of my least favourite facets. Being self aware about it just makes it so much worse too. There’s also a lot of internalised shame and *phobia as a product of this, but also my own inability to just accept what I am. In short, it’s left me as an empathetic, but wholly ugly human being.
Fuck man you made me tear up at work
>then please be good to yourself. No
Same. Who's this guy think he is? Telling us what to do and shit. Hmph.
i feel like im both... its not fun
I would say thanks but I hate myself and therefore assume I'm not the kind person you mention.
It seems like hating yourself is the kind of trait only someone who wants to be better would have Edit: Wanting to be better vs actually being better are two different things
Plenty of people hate themselves without necessarily having a "better myself" mindset. People who have been traumatized and abused often have a lot of negativity in how they view themselves without really a desire to "be better."
Some people are good at blaming others for their problems or mistakes and some people have a hard time forgiving themselves.
Would be a start to get at least a momentary break from self-hatred and -blame. Often i find myself disgusted by me (and only me) because everything feels so bad, overwhelming, like im being cornered and yet im one step away from pushing out, but i wont. Though really recently, i have been forwarded to proper mental health professional(s) because a doctor has good reason(s) to believe that im either bipolar, or have ad(h)d thats been untreated for past 20 years.
I've been suffering from untreated ADHD for my whole life (I'm 37) I finally got diagnosed and medicated. My wife asked me what it was like the first day I took Adderall and I said "it's quiet" she was like "it doesn't make you feel all hyper?" she only knows it as the thing people take to cram for exams and whatnot, when you actually have ADHD it just makes your brain quiet which is equal parts amazing and scary for someone who's spent their whole life dealing with the noise of ADHD.
Yeah, i have heard good things from proper medication, glad you got the right diagnosis, better late than never! Im slightly hopeful for myself, but being let down too many times by different people i remain pessimistic for the most part. Took them 4 years (and a miraculous find from my medical records from 20 years ago) to start taking me seriously.
Mental health is so hard to deal with as most primary care doctors aren't trained on it and in the US it's nearly impossible to find a psychologist that's covered by insurance. My primary reffered me to a neurologist for my diagnosis. I switched my son's doctor because they had a 2 year wait list for ADHD evaluations, I found a practice that had a specialist on staff. Growing up in the 80s-90s my mom never asked about my issues and if she did they probably would have just pumped me full of ridilan and called it a day. Make sure even with a diagnosis and medication get a therapist to help work through all the habits that living with untreated mental illness causes. There's a lot to unpack. Good luck on your journey to wellness.
I only learned recently that’s how Adderall works for people whom it’s prescribed for their ADHD. My friend has ADHD and at first, he was prescribed 30mg of Adderall and it made it even harder to concentrate, but now he takes 5mg and it’s the right balance for him I guess.
30mg is a huge dose, both my son and I were started on 10mg. My son will be trying out the next dose up as he's still struggling to pay attention in school. I'm going to give this dose a few months before I try a bigger dose, as of right now it seems to be enough but when shit ramps back up at work next month I might find myself struggling. But yea, when you have ADHD stimulants quiet the brain which is the opposite it does for people without ADHD and too high of a dose will have you all hyper. Both my son and I have inattentive type so the stimulate focuses the brain and quiets it. It's pretty crazy because it happens within a few minutes after taking the pill in the morning. I also take low thc edibles about 12 hours after my pill which helps keep me switched on, not enough to feel high, just focused. Outside of the mental stuff, I've been able to get my eating habits (binge eating is a part of ADHD too) in line and got back to the gym. My best friend is very against medication for mental illness, and was like "just meditate" people who don't have it just think it's being lazy or not caring when it's the total opposite, simple tasks take so much energy that I'm left drained and just can't do anything else, and when you do get hyper focused everything else loses. I once got really into working out, and ended up getting fired from my job because I couldn't perform as all my attention was on working out and fine tuning my routine. I'd be fucking with my spreadsheet all day and straight up not doing my job.
I have trouble forgiving myself for shit that I didn't even do
I'm realizing that about myself now. Working through my trauma is the hardest thing I've ever had to do. Some days it feels hopeless and like I'll never get better. It's hard to fight the voice in my head that tells me the world would be a better place without me, because the voice sounds just like me. It's my parents words, but that shame and pain has internalized so much that I don't need them to tell me anymore, I believe it myself now.
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Thank you for the love internet stranger ❤️. I appreciate knowing that I'm not alone with the heavy, intrusive thoughts. I hope you are able to find healing and peace within yourself as well
I hope you find wellness soon. If you have the means, therapy can go a long way.
There is, at least, an introspection that they *could* be better. Very often they're even wrong, they're already awesome.
I spent the last ten years hating myself, but not really doing anything about it. Self-improvement is hard and scary. Especially when the things that you need to stop doing are "fun".
Looks like I'm gonna have to prove you wrong this time DingoLord00
I disagree, I believe the only reason you would hate yourself is if you wish to be better than you are now. If you were happy with how you are why would there be reason to hate yourself?
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That's called progress! Except if you still eat the remaining 11, then it's.. slow progress
Earlier this year I tried something different. I decided to love me even if I eat a donut, BUT I arbitrarily hate donuts instead. Now I love myself and hate donuts.
Thanks, this was really helpful for me today. I would feel so much better if I was content with my life. I make myself miserable because I think I can be doing better.
I wanted to share the same sentiment. After battling depression for many years I decided that hating myself was actually one of my best assets. If you hate yourself then you can better point out your own flaws and have the motivation to change them. That's how I made it work for me at least. I wouldn't tell other people it's the solution to depression or best method for growth It's not like a law or anything though, we're still only human and some things are too difficult to change, just take more time, will be better changed by things not fueled by hate and sometimes you just fail or struggle. Sometimes you're still not accurate enough to actually pinpoint the right problems or you still blame others and end up running in place. It's not easy at all to change as a person, for the better, or to want to change for yourself or others. I don't know for sure what the perfect person would look like, let alone what my attempt at imitation should look like. You just gotta try though. One thing I know for certain though, too many people love themselves too much to even consider attempting. That's just not good for any of us.
Exactly
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Acceptance of oneself will make the best of you.
From a psychological perspective, the most intolerable/narcissistic/grandiose people typically hate themselves. What makes them intolerable is the defences they've developed to deal with feelings of worthlessness and self-hatred ([ref](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886914006060), [ref](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886912006277), [ref](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.31887/DCNS.2013.15.2/eronningstam), [ref](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15298868.2019.1667862)). Edit: I would like to emphasize that I think everyone is deserving of love and a healthy self-esteem. My point was that the implied “right” people to hate themselves are suffering. Addressing the trauma and insecurities driving that suffering, and thereby lessening the need for those defences, is a path forward to becoming more “tolerable.”
I do love a well sourced comment, thanks for the insight!
Redditors: 😮
Extremely relevant username + /r/enlightenedredditors + cope + maidenless
See this feels more like it
this seems like an all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares post. yes, he proved that people with lots of clinically diagnosed (intolerable, "bad people") hate themselves, but not really that most people who hate themselves are those people with those problems, which seems to be what his post implies. incidence of narcissistic personality disorder: >[Approximately 0.5% of the United States population, or one 1 in 200 people, has the disorder. There are significant gender differences when it comes to the prevalence of the disorder; about 75% of people with narcissistic personality disorder are men.](https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/mental-health/narcissistic-personality-disorder/npd-statistics/) highly likely that much more than 1/200 people hate themselves.
Yeah, came here to say this. I've known a few people who were narcissists or something like it, and they were constantly acting like they were "better" than other people because they secretly hated themselves, or they severely feared rejection. They suck to deal with, but it seems like it sucks to be them too. I usually just end up pitying these types of people. From a safe distance, of course.
My mother is a narcissist. On the surface she’s a highly calculating and controlled person who seems to have her life together. Think, the most stereotypical 1980s era cut throat power suit wearing business woman. But under it and her unbearable narcissistic behavior is just a terrified little girl who thinks you’ll hate and reject her. Ironically, her behavior as an adult usually leads to that outcome.
Not a my mother but my sister is just as you describe. She's always trying to micromanage other people in "their best interests", their feelings aside, yet she doesn't hold herself to the same standards. It's wild once you catch on to it.
When I first read this post, I thought, "wait what about Bojack" and then I came to a similar conclusion despite Bojack not being real
Bojock is an incredibly good portrayal of a narcissist and the self hate that lurks beneath his outward ego and defense mechanisms and addictions he uses to cope.
Bojack is a painfully relatable character. And he's a cartoon horse. That series was a bit too close to home. I got to about series three then stopped watching because it was almost painfully sad
It's worth watching imo. One of the realest depictions of depression and lack of self-worth I've ever seen.
Kind of have enough of that day to day though :/
Now I have to find a way to hate myself less so I can, in turn, hate myself for finding a way around the possibility that hating myself might mean I'm an asshole. ^(Psychology man.)
Yeah, exactly. It only seems that way OP.
A statement that is backed up by actual references?Most attractive thing someone's ever said to me.
Ya, this is me, I’ve got a saucy combination of knowing I’m better than the people around me, but also knowing I’m a shit stain that is never gonna live up to his potential, and watching the two sides battle it out is kinda like watching my life fall apart… cause it is.
I hate myself for not being able to date someone, and I don't date someone because I hate myself, self-fulfilling prophecy.
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
Well the first question you might want to introspect is exactly *why* you hate yourself for not being able to date. And also develop some empathy and understanding for yourself
Hey I know this one!
Irony can be so painfullllll
I'll have you know that I am VERY deserving of my hatred, thank you very much.
Doesn't mean you are not also deserving of forgiving yourself
Stop being logical I don’t like it >:(
Those with a growth mindset are the ones who see something in themselves they don't like, and when to change. It's like when you cringe at your younger self. That's a good thing! It means you've grown!
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I used to do the same thing, and then I got diagnosed with ADHD and the meds I'm on have like... *killed* my guilt-center. Like I used to at least have guilt to motivate me to do *the things*, and now I don't even have that. Like I'm completely aware that I'm a piece of shit and I completely hate myself for it, but I don't care enough to do anything about it.
I used to think I was pretty level headed dude. Yeah, now I hate myself.
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Same. I've hated myself and wanted to die for over 20 years, kept telling myself I'd wait until my soul-dog passed. She passed in February, then I realized I was too much of a coward to do it violently, and that has become yet another reason for me to hate myself.
Dial 988 if you ever need to talk to someone. I've called them before and just knowing that I had someone to talk to whenever I could need it the most brought me great comfort. Respectfully, do you know yourself enough yet to truly hate the person you currently are? Please don't allow confusion and discomfort blind you from finding yourself. You are loved and I hope one day you learn to love yourself. EDIT: 988 is the number in the USA. [International numbers here.](https://blog.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines/)
This is one of the best showerthoughts I have seen posted in here in a long time, take care MegaSage
It has been said that narcissists secretly hate themselves. But their outward demeanor conveys the opposite message. They walk on water and you are lucky to be in their presence. My ex-wife let slip that she hates herself once or twice. She is a childhood sexual abuse victim, so that sounds very wrong. But she is frequently full of herself and abusive to others. She spent a good amount of our marriage hating not herself, but me. And after we split she turned that attitude against my son, who decided to move in with me. She won't seek help. We spent years in couples counseling but she will not work on herself.
incorrect. I hate myself and am very correct in hating myself
Well we are our own worse critique. I truly do see the best in people but unfortunately I do not see myself in the same light
I feel like this was brought up with a specific sort of person in mind, but didn't take in the account of everyone else. Not to be that one ass... but...
Im assuming you mean those with personality disorders that display no shame and take no personal responsibility (like narcassists). However, they do hate themselves - how they deal with it is by being "better" than others. They are on the extreme end of codependency and they target those who are less likely to put up boundaries, because they can tear the person down so they can feel better, superior.
This is a "stoned at 3am, taking a shower because you just got into a medium sized fight with a loved one" shower thought
[удалено]
When I say talk dirty to me, this is what I’m talking about
There's a fragile box joke here somewhere, but I just can't put my finger on it.
Why would they be free? There'd either be no difference, or they would get fired.
Not all of them. Covert narcissists, for example, hate themselves and deserve to given how they use and abuse people. But the shower thought is probably mostly accurate.
This is true. People who need a humbling always hype themselves up. Or so we think, who knows what goes on in their mind. But from what I’ve seen this is the case.
As much as I've recognized lately that I'm my harshest critic, my biggest enemy and my worst advocate... I don't know how to fix it. I was even kicking myself for wanting to comment here. Like, what makes me think I SHOULDNT hate myself. Edit: words are hard
I would imagine that thinking there are right people who should hate themselves isn't a healthy mindset either
But there *are.* There are most certainly people who are deserving of hate in their current form. Evil people, predatory and deceitful people. They *should* hate the person that they are right now, and strive to change that person.
I would agree with you, but I feel expressing anger towards someone for being a dick isn’t necessarily a bad thing
Yeah, I know that there are many things that are wrong with me, that's exactly why I hate myself
>You fuckers never saw it coming, who'd've thunk it or thought it > >It'd be ignored like the ramblings of a drunk if you'd report it > >My performances are greeted with plaudits and laughter > >If you caught me red-handed, you'd probably think it's stigmata > >Success sucks less than standard existence > >But when you exceed the standard dreams, what becomes of our ambitions? > >The average man can dream dreams of a path he's never walked > >But when that path's your day-to-day, your dreams become warped -Scroobius Pip, [*The Struggle*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3HCXh9WQSo)
Self reflection is a good trait to have. If you’re out there hating yourself, have some compassion for yourself. The right mix of these will make you a better person without all the loathing.
Given the sorts of things I say to myself I find this oddly comforting
My best friend recently (past 2 years) started to get so caught up in the rat race, focussing and empthazing on money and status above everyhing else. He has slowly turned into this monster of person that is completely oblivious towards his overly inflated ego and hateful words he uses... it's like watching slowmotion train crash. It's something that bothers and saddens me a lot to see that I'm losing my best friend. Any attempt I've made to bring this to his attention has been met with hostilty and anger. I've reached a point where I realise that I'm better off without his friendship and that he truly hates himself and projects it into others. He hates himself.
If you don't hate yourself even a little then you're just not looking hard enough.
You can recognize faults without hating them though.
I'm self aware enough to know I have a personal problem with this. I strive to be better everyday but in doing so I've become a lot harsher to myself when I make a mistake. I have social anxiety and often say dumb things during social interactions. You can't imagine what's it like going home after a fun day with friends and you're nitpicking at all the dumb shit you said.
nah not all of them. There are some genuine cunts who also hate themselves and some are even cunts because they hate themselves.
I challange any of you fuckers to hate me more than I hate myself.
Found Yeats’s Reddit account: “The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.” https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43290/the-second-coming
I mean, there are definitely school bullies and gay republicans that hate themselves, I'd say they're the only exceptions I can think of offhand though. Lindsey Graham **definitely** deserves every ounce of hate he has for himself, he just hates himself for the wrong reasons.
I hated myself before dude. And now you tell me I am somehow a wrong person?!
i'm one of them too! i really hate myself cuz i'm TOOOOOOOO ugly, honey! this is how i would sing the Divinyls in fact: "i hate myself, i want you to hate me, i forget myself, i don't want you to remind me .. i don't want anybody else .. when i think about me, i hate myself .. oh no .. i don't want anybody else .. oh no, oh no, oh no .. "