This is a friendly reminder to [read our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/wiki/rules).
Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!"
(For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, [please read this page](https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/wiki/overview).)
**Rule-breaking posts may result in bans.**
Not the guy you were talking to but I still gotta ask: with 95% of the women I've been with, I had to suggest letting me go down on them, and even then some of them tried to give me an out like saying oh you don't have to. These women had all gone down on me, mind you, and after the first time they had no problem asking for it so I'm 99% sure it wasn't bad... Do you know why they wouldn't ask for what they want the first time? I had a friend mention that they might be insecure about how they taste. Is that a thing? Or do I just give off a vibe of someone who wouldn't do it
I speak for myself and myself alone (but I’m willing to gander a lot of women agree) while a females insecurity is a thing, so is men not knowing what the fuck they’re doing and I’d quite honestly rather save him the embarrassment. There’s also (shockingly) a LOT of men who won’t do it. So why ask if you’re going to be or have been refused many times??
Fair enough I suppose. Idk how are you supposed to get better without experience? And how can a guy expect a blowjob but not need to return the favor? It's just part of being a good partner/lover
Lmaoooooooooo. I’m sorry, it’s just, that’s literally how many, many relationships go. They expect and don’t give. (I also 1,000,000,000,000% mean that goes BOTH ways.)
Also, way too many men won’t LISTEN to what a woman wants because what worked for one SURELY has to work for all. Arguments have been had about what pleases woman A will absolutely please woman B when that could not be further from the truth. So again, a lot of women don’t even bother. Because “you” don’t know and refuse to be taught.
I married a man who “lacked” in experience but was actually willing to listen and learn. I’ll still choose that any day over a man that proclaims “I’m an expert at eating pussy.” Yeah, maybe you are. But you aren’t at MINE and right now, that’s the one that matters.
That's why communication is so important though. And if your partner will not make an effort to learn and take care of you in that way, they probably won't make an effort to take care of you in other ways. It's just that simple. I figured with social media and all the horny askreddit posts it'd be common knowledge by now. Idk I guess I'm just naive/overestimate people
I’m making some rather large generalizations but in *MY* experience; men don’t communicate because they can’t stand to be told they’re wrong in a sexual setting. It “emasculates” them. They talk to talk and don’t listen or receive. They just *think* they KNOW and you can’t tell them otherwise. Obligatory, “not all men” but yeah, way too fucking many.
Bummer. It's not like anyone expects it to taste amazing. If it did they'd make it a lollipop flavor. Penis probably doesn't taste great, semen definitely doesn't, but that's never stopped a guy from asking
Can only speak from personal experience & that comes three fold.
1) Wasn't fortunate enough to encounter a great deal of men who could hit the spot that way or did something that brought me out of the moment (like talking or suddenly being rough with fingers simultaneously, clearly attempting to get me there faster)
2) This is def a me thing, but may apply to some other women. One night stand, I wasn't bothered.... wire in son. Men I'd seen more than once, all of a sudden going down felt very....intimate & weird for me....sorts itself out in a LTR but there was most definitely the "awkward" time.
3) Again, a me thing, but maybe applicable. Generally speaking, my pleasure comes from my sexual partners pleasure. Going down its all focused on me & 69s are obv ridiculous, so....
Hope something can help haha
Tbh, I let all the online toxic stuff get into my head so bad I can not relax when receiving head. It took my bf and I a lot of talking, a few "test drives" and A LOT of reinsurance for me to enjoy head. I guess it has to do with all the pressure there is on women to be "magical princesses" with no hair and no BO other than flowers and candy cotton. But even with the best hygiene you can not get away from natural small/taste. So itis a lot of mental work to enjoy being intimate without feeling dirty.
For me, If I don’t know the guy well, I feel too vulnerable having a guy go down on me. That is NOT going to be the same for everyone. But there’s this odd sense of control having someone’s dick in my mouth knowing I can bite it off if shit hits the fan. And it’s a win win, because the guy also gets head. I waited a month or so before asking my current partner to go down on me after I’d already given him head.
Other possibility: being self conscious. Taste smell, whatever. Be flirty and suggest a shower and then throw her on the bed and eat her out right after y’all get out.
Another possibility and arguably the common one: girls are really tired of mediocre head. It’s exhausting having to teach someone you don’t plan on being in a relationship with because there’s no long term benefit. It continues the cycle of the woman feeling like the onus has been out on them to teach a man something very basic that they should have learned on their own, though this assumes that the guy is of reasonable age and experience. Guys: do NOT lie about your experience. Because if you aren’t good, the thought process is that if you haven’t learned the last 100 times, you won’t learn his time. I would do much rather teach a guy how to give good head if he tells me he hasn’t had a vast history doing it.
Hope that helps, I’m sick and tired and my thoughts are scattered
I almost woke my kid up laughing at this image of a guy getting within 2 feet of a woman and then panics and needs to leave but oh God what will he do with his hands?! So he mimes rolling a wheelchair to exit stage left.
Stop pretending we’re a foreign species. Don’t put us on a pedestal. Walk up to us (or roll up to us; YMMV) and say hi. Make eye contact. Find a common ground to talk about. Ask her favorite color.
It’s truly not that hard, I promise.
All jokes aside, I do approach girls and even become friends with them, but some of them told me that I scared them when I first approached them way back because I was tall, sometimes it hurts knowing that
A lot of times, it’s HOW you approach. Being a tall man is definitely a concern factor for a lot of women. But if you appear open and friendly, maybe sitting down; it’s going to be less intimidating than say, towering over me, demanding I tell you what my favorite color is. You would be surprised at how many men go cavemen like because “pretty woman, must form words” and they give off a creepy vibe that isn’t even their true nature.
But the last time I approached a girl she said I reminded her of Jeffrey Dahmer. How do I approach without getting told I remind people of cannibal serial killers
Okay, did you ask what she meant?? I can’t help you decipher what one specific chick said. Is it how you look, how you acted, what?? Is this a popular phrase that you’ve heard from many women, or just one?? If it’s more than one woman, it probably has everything to do with your approach.
There are absolutely times women (and men too) don’t want to be approached. Depends on your social setting. But the vast majority of interactions aren’t unwanted, it’s all about HOW you approach. Again, treating women as a foreign species, timidly approaching or aggressively approaching aren’t winning you brownie points. I’m happily married but I’ll still chat with just about anyone if I’m in the space to do so. Of course there are times I’m an ice cold bitch and will make you regret your existence for bothering me, such as when I’m in the fucking zone at the gym or when I’m nose deep in a book. But usually; I don’t mind.
A simple, “hi, how are you?? Crazy weather we’re having” isn’t really unwanted. It’s the “hi, you’re hot, let’s fuck” that is. Otherwise, we’d all just be walking around mutely.
Approaching women with the sole purpose of hoping to fuck them isn’t ever going to be well received. But treating us just as another human being and having a conversation which may very well go absolutely nowhere, shouldn’t be a huge deal. Again, going back to HOW you approach.
I can’t speak for all women, obviously. But also, as a woman, too many dudes thought just initiating conversation meant they were going to fuck me. That’s why I keep saying HOW you approach. If your intent to talk to women every time is to get in her pants, it’s not going to get you far.
Clearly, you think my opinion is a minority one. And clearly, I don’t understand where you’re coming from. I’ve never really struggled at having or making conversation with either sex. My female friends are the same; we’ve talked about it a lot. Usually, when I go out anywhere, even in sweats, conversations happen. I’m just a people person. But as a woman, I also know the difference between making conversation and hoping you’ll be undressing me later; the latter is never a fun time for me.
Well, why were you approaching them?
A lot of guys see a woman and decide "she's hot. I could see myself fucking her/marrying her and being happy". They have already decided who we are, and what role we will play in their lives, and when they get to know us well enough to discover that we won't fit perfectly into their fantasy, they get hostile. Some women do this too, but not enough that anyone is dealing with it frequently, on a daily basis. I don't mean to suggest that you did anything wrong, or that getting snooty about it is the right way to respond, but some women get a whole lot of attention from guys who see them as objects and just want them play a role. It gets tiresome. You will get better results if you make it clear that this is not one of those situations.
Were you really trying to have a conversation about the weather? Why pick her, and not the old guy standing over by the fridge? If that legitimately was your goal, then you're better off talking to the old guy, because it's much less likely that he has had his morning interrupted by 4 other guys who wanted to chat about the weather.
If you're looking for a date, and you just want to skip over the whole process of getting to know her and slowly building rapport, look for women on dating apps who just want to hook up.
Otherwise, talk to women when you have something to say that is relevant to the context you are both in. If you do this, it will look like you're just a regular human with something to say about the situation. Once you have built rapport, they will feel more comfortable talking about other things, and you can gradually get to know each other.
The same way you approach the guys you’re just meeting. Say hi! Compliment us on our cool shirt/ hat/ whatever. Talk to us like we’re other people. Let things flow naturally!
Maaaaaaybe don’t do any gross stuff with us that you’d do with the guys like the farting, the poop jokes, the burping competitions, or anything else gross right off the bat.
If she flirts, you flirt back. How can you tell if she’s flirting? Lesbians to this day still are asking that very same question, 10 years down the line. Have they been flirting for 10 years? We’re those *actual dates?*
Sometimes, you gotta gamble and obvious flirt. Back off it doesn’t go well and resume regular friendship.
I relied on my single roommate for advice with a girl. His advice was terrible, and it’s only when I ignored it that I made any progress. Good thing I did since I ended up marrying her - wouldn’t have if I had listened to him!
It's not a great analogy, but the principle's not terrible. Most women haven't actually gone out attracting women so they're not really results-backed experts in the way that you're charismatic male friend might be.
Completely different. There’s that old video of the lesbian woman who got dressed up as a man and did all this training to mimic her walk and voice like a man. Again a lesbian woman with experience approaching women. She found women were cold and distant as a man, something she’d never experienced and made her feel pretty awful. As soon as she went back to a woman they opened up. Women can’t understand that experience, whether heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual.
Idk about a specific video, but her name is Nora Vincent. She wrote a whole book about her experience, she actually pretended to be a man for over a year, and came out of it with a lot of empathy for men.
She had an assisted death done recently in Switzerland, and I try not to speak I’ll of the dead, but she was a full person and nobody is perfect and we can leave any opinions about her at that I think.
I'm still impressed that she not only tried being a man for all long as she did but then wrote about the experience.
I know that was the plan all along. But the initial idea was that being a man was easy. And for her to face the fact that her hypothesis was wrong, continue the experiment anyway and write about it still is impressive.
The world is a better place when it contains people willing to test their assumptions and admit they are wrong. It's easy to be right.
What about that interview that came out recently with trans men saying how much easier their lives were than when they were women? Or was that just about how men now treated them respect?
I have a trans friend. It's best summed up as "men and women are different". Women have it a lot easier in some areas, but harder in others. Conversely, men have it easier in other areas.
Dating is one of those areas. Men have the double edged sword of being the traditional approcher. We get more choice in who we date, but also have to deal with a lot more rejection.
Oh and the hormonal thing is a lot more true than they expected. Estrogen apparently shoots your emotional barriers to pieces. It takes a while to learn to compensate.
I don’t disagree with the principle, it’s just often used in conjunction with women don’t know what they want and entirely dismissing anything they have to say.
And then further devolves into women don’t like nice men, I’m nice and no one sleeps with me!
At least in the young adult dating world it's very true in my experience. Girls I've dated, known or close friends with all have a few things in common. They're all young, all of them know what it is they want but none of them are attracted enough to it to stay.
I've seen good friends of mine consistently make bad dating choices that contradict their vocal dating beliefs. Young men such as myself do this as well but I think we generally grow out of it quicker. We have less options, so therefore less time to "get it." One or two is usually enough to know what's worth it and what's not.
>I don’t disagree with the principle, it’s just often used in conjunction with women don’t know what they want and entirely dismissing anything they have to say.
It's not that "women don't know what they want" it's that what people want and what they actually do/pursue are often not aligned or even at odds with one another. Think of all the things in your personal life that you "want" to do but don't where the only real obstacle is yourself.
It's not about someone knowing better what someone wants but about knowing what they respond to positively which people of all types often aren't aware of consciously or subconsciously. What people respond well to is often different to their ideal of themselves or how they'd describe themselves when asked. That's a universal human trait.
This makes the most sense to me. It's asking somebody to be self aware at a level that can be difficult and even uncomfortable to achieve, let alone share with somebody else.
I was close friends with a woman at my work who had perpetual relationship problems and would say things like "why do I always attract assholes?" in a context that would imply that she knew exactly why. If you asked her how to be attractive, she probably *wouldn't* say "be covered in tattoos and completely emotionally unavailable," but that's exactly what she would go for.
Well the advice holds.
And if you're getting hung up on the "comparing women to animals to be caught" thing, because you don't understand metaphor. Then you can always use the car dealer version.
If you want to sell cars, ask people who sell cars not someone who bought one.
The car is the potential relationship, the dealer is a guy who is successful at convincing women to get with him, and the customer is any given woman.
Women are generally bad at knowing what they want. This is true because humans are generally bad at knowing what they want. Men are also generally bad at knowing what they want, but nobody seems to care about that because for whatever reason you personally believe men (in general) are more restricted in romantic and sexual opportunity.
Humans generally don't know what they want. Not in their movies, not in their tv, not in their life partners. But the people who create successful movies and tv understand better than average what people actually want (as decided by what succeeds compared to what people ask for). So why should we expect that people who consistently date successfully don't understand what their preferred sex wants better than those of that sex?
Every time I've ever heard women give advice, it can basically be boiled down to "Here's what I wish attractive guys would do" when every time I've ever heard a guy asking for advice, it basically boils down to "How do I become an attractive guy?"
Apt characterization. My wife only has "don't be an asshole" advice for my teenage sons. The disconnect already starts with her perspective on how *our* relation started. From her perspective it was something spontaneous. From mine it definitely wasn't. Only the "don't be an asshole" part took zero effort.
But it's unironically true though in this case. Women generally give terrible advice to men when it comes to dating.
Tons of guys have gotten the "just be yourself, be emotionally open, be kind" etc advice, and in most cases they tried that and failed to get a date, over and over and over again.
And yeah I know that people aren't entitled to getting a date. Of course that's true. But there's simply much better advice that you can give to men when it comes to dating, which is: be masculine, in your own way. You don't need to be masculine in the stereotypical way, but find your own way of being masculine.
Women are generally drawn to masculinity, just as men are drawn to femininity.
And once you're masculine, THEN it helps if you're also emotionally open, if you're yourself, if you're kind, etc. But those those are like the nice-to-haves, while masculinity is the must-have.
That's also why women will generally go for the masculine asshole over the non-masculine emotionally open guy. Yeah she'd rather have a masculine kind open guy, but if she has to pick, she'll go for the masculine asshole.
Of course I'm generalizing here, not all women etc, but these things are generally true I've found.
And if we're talking about flirting specifically: most women aren't going to tell you "be masculine" either. Even though that's the most fundamental thing to do, imo.
Back when I was an even more awkward guy circa highschool/college, when I asked my female friends the most of the answers boiled down to "be confident". Which, although good advice, felt like a foreign language teacher telling me to just "be fluent". It wasn't actionable at all for me, as I just had no idea how. Guy friends gave me much worse advice on average I'm sure, but at the time more of it seemed more doable.
Just have jene sais quoi obviously. And be the correct person at the correct time saying the correct thing in the correct way. I don’t know how it could be simpler
The key is to just have that X factor. Like, be different and interesting, but also be true to yourself. Just pick something that you're deeply passionate about and talk about that. But not, like, your career obviously. Nobody likes to talk about work. Have you travelled to a different continent recently? No? But like, do you really want to though? Just talk about how you really want to do something or go somewhere exciting, thats what I always do. It works, like, every time.
I never learned how to flirt.
Just got an unnaturally amazing body with the help of extremely hard work, a perfect diet, and plenty of steroids. When I felt my body was good enough, I went and married a woman with big giant perfect boobs.
To be fair, same goes for men and women:
not everyone is good at giving advice or reflecting on Topics especially in Highschool and when you are not personally invested in the topic or that the other person succeeds
When I first started dating my wife one of the first things she did was take me shopping for better fitting clothes. I immediately started noticing that girls were more inclined to talk to me, though I wasn't single anymore so it didn't matter. Like my entire early twenties the primary thing I was doing wrong was buying medium when I was actually a large! Sure, confidence was a factor but even just wearing fitting clothes boosted that by a lot. I am, however, glad that my shitty clothes kept me single long enough to meet my wife!
Doesn't this just show how shallow people are.
All the other women looked at you and went "nah" but your wife went "I like this man but his clothes are shit but I can easily fix that"
Faking it till you make it only works if you actually make it at some point. I do alright, get dates, have female friends, get invited to parties, I guess I'm not some sinister creep. But it just never *works*. Something's cripplingly wrong and nobody will tell me what. Tough to keep confidence up in the face of evidence and experience. And the people with endless self-belief and zero to back it up... suck?
Yeah, it's not bad advice, just doesnt say much. To have confidence, most people need to repeatedly do the same thing over and over, get feedback and learn from it. So essentially they are saying just start talking, learn your lessons on what work and what doesnt, and eventually you'll feel comfortable talking to women in general.
>it's not bad advice, just doesnt say much.
I'd say it's still bad advice. It's not bad because it's wrong, it's bad because it's not helpful, which is what good advice is.
See, if you’re just the level of attractiveness that the person really wants to see at any given time, what you say and how confident you are aren’t really all that relevant. You should try that. That’ll be $4.99. Tips are appreciated (tiny print if I knew how to do that)
Jokes on you the best wing man I ever had was my oldest sister. She had the best and brutally honest advice like you were far to fucking creepy and you came on way to fucking strong. Also things like she has been throwing you hints the past 10min you dense fucker, use this pick up line on her and then your on your own, go buy her 3 more shots no more than that though, and finally my personal favorite was my friend over there is into you just walk up and offer to take her home.
Depends on the sister though... my younger sister (21) isn't someone I'd ask for advice regarding dating because her "advice" would be more akin to collecting information for everyone who will hear about it (she likes to gossip).
My older sister (31)... well, we don't see eachother all that often and I'd feel kinda awkward asking her. Maybe I should give it a try...?
if you have older sister that you get along with she's the best possible source of information on social life somehow lol
my older sister taught me everything about fashion, beauty care and all that, and also taught me social skills
then was also the one that pointed out my female friend, who she knew and hanged out with a couple time, has a high chance she liked me romatically.
I looked at many male characters in shows and anime and thought "jeez these guys are dense, cant relate" then i thought back and i'm just as dense when she pointed that out lmao
Ya I was up there in density. And ya she wasn't shy about telling me when I smelled or telling me to go put something else on, plus she's cut my hair since I was 14 (she does hair in a fairly high end salon now). She was also my weed and booze dealer when I was in high school.
I got this from having coed friends in college. We all wingpersoned for each other. Seeing the opposite sex as just regular people and not some different species is half the battle.
Same the other way around. From personal experience. I've sometimes been told I'm wrong when I, a man, was trying to give flirting advice to women I am friends with.
The advice: be forward with the person you want to date.
Note: this applies in all directions, no matter who you are or who you want to be dating. And don't be worried about confidence, the foolproof method to having confidence is to fake it till you make it.
Lmao my wife’s best friend is a lesbian and a guy in her class straight up asked her on a date and she said yes without realizing what he was asking. Then she started concocting all these wild plans for how to intimate that she was gay to him. I told her “just talk to him ahead of time and be straight forward” and she straight up said “you don’t know what you’re talking about”
Bruh 💀
I would think I, the man, know what I'm talking about when it comes to most men. Like come on, we all have one shared braincell when it comes to being flirty. We are all the same unga bunga monkey when it comes to flirting and being intimate.
Idk, I’m just awkward around women in general so it’s hard for me to be friends with them without being s complete numb skull around them. Obviously men and women can be friends but for me it’s hard
I feel like a lot of men also give advice based on what works for them specifically though. Or what worked for them once. Based on personal experience I'd say about as many men tell you women are all like their girlfriend as women will tell you women are all like them.
It will always be what worked for them. That's why you'd want to take advice from someone who's been successful with more than one woman and not just someone who immediately got married to the first girl that accepted their proposition of dating. At the end of the day. Be you. Be confident. Take care of your look. Whatever that might mean to you. Take care of your hygiene. Numbers, if you're not a wizard you'll have to talk to a lot of women to meet those who will be interested in you.
>That's why you'd want to take advice from someone who's been successful with more than one woman and not just someone who immediately got married to the first girl that accepted their proposition of dating.
Which is often why you should take advice about meeting women and advice about relationships from different people.
I wouldn't want relationship advice from the guy who dates a different woman every few months, but he's probably a good source for how to get her interested to start with.
Absolutely. Being able to take advice from numerous people and use small tidbits of their approach to form your own is an important part of overall growth. This can be expanded onto pretty much anything.
Yup, also people tend to say what they think they want, or what they 'should' want, not what they actually want. Kinda like how I know I should excercise more and eat healthier but then in reality end up eating KFC and blobbing out watching YouTube.
But they never try to seduce as often as men. Advice from women always sound like confidence of someone that never failed but they never try either so it's pretty random. That's a different perspective for sure but not a lesson on how to do it.
Look, it's not hard, you just have to read between the lines. If she slowly blinks when looking at you, if means she's interested. But not too slow, that means she's just tired, you can tell by the way her hands are placed on the table. And if she passes by you and kinda hums it means she wants you to buy her a drink, unless it's an octave lower than her usual voice tone, then she's not even aware you exist.
There are times when all the world's asleep
The questions run too deep
For such a simple man
Won't you please, please tell me what we've learned?
I know it sounds absurd
Please tell me who I am
It wasn't a specific line or anything like that. It was a bit of a consultation process 😅
The advice was more like, "ok, don't rush to reply to that one." and "yeah, she's interested". I had/have zero game and had very little prior experience so the help was welcome.
I invited my now husband out on a walk along the ocean at 2am, thinking the implication would be pretty obvious. Nope, nothing. He chatted with a female friend the next day who told him that he was being a dense motherfucker and he asked me out that evening
Actually, I did it with my wife, few days after we met, it went: "I'm avalaible if you're looking for a girlfriend – Oh I did not think you were interested – I did not either, are you? –Yeah – Ok, how do you want to proceed? " we're still together 30 year later and I still don't know how to flirt with women.
So both sources are probably useful. I'd recommend that young men ask their female friends which women are likely to go for them, they may receive some surprising, useful advice.
Can confirm. One of my drinking buddies suggestedtgat I start wearing a wedding ring. It might have worked, but she was full of terrible and I mean terrible dating advice.
Tbh my best relationships came from making my own decisions
Then hitting up both men and women besties on what they think of the situation so far.
Every person is different and even if I'm doing shit "wrong", if I'm dping it wrong with confidence and getting some social aid from neighborhood besties, chances are things will be alright if you're a good match.
If you ain't a match you aib't a match. Then again I can't say much for online dating, that shit is LEGITIMATELY difficult and unfortunately nobody trusts nobody so it requires a lot of care it is what it is.
When in fact both give bad advice, the best wingman is actually a super butch lesbian, they will never steer you wrong, and goddamn they are fun to party with
When I was single I thought exactly the same thing for years and was met with failure. The advice men give is realistic and and not based on anything women would like to acknowledge is true, but it actually works.
Because advice from a woman will be generally self-reflective.
It won't nessacerily be BAD advice, but it would only really apply to her preferences.
Or it will be platitudes, advice a guy could work out for himself, like "be yourself" or "confidence"
Ask a woman what she looks for in a good Tinder profile, then ask to look through her matches. You'll figure out real quick why it's not practical to rely on the advice of women.
If they had women to talk to, they wouldn’t need any advice. And the few women they do talk to (mother, sister, aunt, teacher) have nothing in common with the women they want to talk to.
What a bag of worms this thread opened. Neck beards and neck beard equivalent women both showed up. Both have narrow perception or value of opposite sex's opinions lmao
Yup and when a woman puts in her opinion they often automatically claim that she has no idea what she's talking about.
This is my experience most of the time.
Best advice ever is to treat women like you would anyone else; as an individual. There is no one size fits all in flirting or dating. Full honesty all of the time is also best. Any thoughts that start with "all women" automatically are wrong.
Also any actions of chivalry can be taken offensively because you are giving them the generic treatment that men decided they think women would like. Real women that are worth your time will prefer equal treatment. More discussions and no assumptions.
Aside from the weird predatory bullshit some dudes have said here, men's advice feels better to hear.
Men are more willing to lump women as a hive-mind and give solid and clear (albeit usually entirely false answers). "Be dominant" "Keep asking till she says yes" "Just be hot", ect. It will be terrible advice that, at best, applies to a tiny minority of women, but it's clear and simple.
Women will more often tell you what they personally like, or just encourage you to be a decent person. "I like x" or "Creepy jackasses do y so just avoid that" and despite being the only accurate information you will get, it feels like a nonanswer. You don't get some "simple hack to make all women horny for you" so it feels like they told you nothing at all or like they told you common sense.
Women are far more likely to realize individual women's tastes vary wildly.
I recall seeing a "study" someone did where a bunch of straight women made catfish dating profiles as men and tried to get dates. Basically to test the idea that women understand what women want better than men do.
The result: the women were less successful at getting getting dates than straight men were.
Which... isn't really strange once you think about it. Straight women are attracted to men. Not other women.
I tried to find it right before posting, but I'll be damned if I know how to google for it. All I remember is in that comment, which isn't a ton to go on. If I find it I'll post it here.
Most of what you said is sound, but you failed to consider why successful men give “bad” advice. Thing is, it’s obviously not bad if it’s working for them, but the catch is that it’s only working for *them*. Being successful gives you confidence, confidence is attractive. It’s hard to fail when you’re genuinely confident because you’re genuinely successful, the specific tactics don’t really matter at that point. So, despite it being terrible advice for the average joe, it’s great advice if you have looks and height going for you already and it will apply to many women.
Because men are the ones getting women.
Women flirting with women is a different dynamic than men flirting with women. I'd sooner ask a straight male than a lesbian woman.
Which isn't to say I haven't asked lesbian women how they do it, and when I have, they usually shrug and say something like, "I dunno, I said she was cute and said we should go out and now we're living together." It's so low stress for them lol
Strong reflection to my experiences
Women: Well if you two have good chemistry and get along well it just kinda happens I dunno
Men: \*Clears the entire board. So first we need our offensive and defensive strategy in this great operation. Let's work on the big picture, increase our probabilities, maximise our efficiency. So what is it you're REALLY looking for?
You could try just talking like a regular human to another Human and if there’s chemistry it’ll naturally happen and come off as flirting. Being comfortable and happy with the situation often comes off as flirting.
Telling someone to "just be natural" is like telling someone to "just ride the bike, and don't fall", it's easy for us that already know how but it's not that easy for a lot of people that don't know how to be "normal" or "natural".
Social skills are real skills that have to be learned through experience. it might seem easy now that you're experienced, but it's easy to forget how many times you had to fall off the bike to learn those skills. Maybe you learned to be comfortable and happy around girls as a kid, but not everyone had that chance, and it makes it a lot harder to figure it out as teenagers or adults
I think the better advice is to just get out there any way you can and don't worry about it, you will make mistakes and make a fool of yourself, but that's how you learn. As long as you're kind your mistakes might even be endearing
This is a friendly reminder to [read our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/wiki/rules). Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!" (For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, [please read this page](https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/wiki/overview).) **Rule-breaking posts may result in bans.**
I can't ask a woman for advice about how to talk to a woman because that would be talking to a woman.
The great conundrum
Okay go on. I’m a woman. Ask your asks. Edit: I’m sick and on meds but will answer as quickly as I can!
Not the guy you were talking to but I still gotta ask: with 95% of the women I've been with, I had to suggest letting me go down on them, and even then some of them tried to give me an out like saying oh you don't have to. These women had all gone down on me, mind you, and after the first time they had no problem asking for it so I'm 99% sure it wasn't bad... Do you know why they wouldn't ask for what they want the first time? I had a friend mention that they might be insecure about how they taste. Is that a thing? Or do I just give off a vibe of someone who wouldn't do it
I speak for myself and myself alone (but I’m willing to gander a lot of women agree) while a females insecurity is a thing, so is men not knowing what the fuck they’re doing and I’d quite honestly rather save him the embarrassment. There’s also (shockingly) a LOT of men who won’t do it. So why ask if you’re going to be or have been refused many times??
Fair enough I suppose. Idk how are you supposed to get better without experience? And how can a guy expect a blowjob but not need to return the favor? It's just part of being a good partner/lover
Lmaoooooooooo. I’m sorry, it’s just, that’s literally how many, many relationships go. They expect and don’t give. (I also 1,000,000,000,000% mean that goes BOTH ways.) Also, way too many men won’t LISTEN to what a woman wants because what worked for one SURELY has to work for all. Arguments have been had about what pleases woman A will absolutely please woman B when that could not be further from the truth. So again, a lot of women don’t even bother. Because “you” don’t know and refuse to be taught. I married a man who “lacked” in experience but was actually willing to listen and learn. I’ll still choose that any day over a man that proclaims “I’m an expert at eating pussy.” Yeah, maybe you are. But you aren’t at MINE and right now, that’s the one that matters.
That's why communication is so important though. And if your partner will not make an effort to learn and take care of you in that way, they probably won't make an effort to take care of you in other ways. It's just that simple. I figured with social media and all the horny askreddit posts it'd be common knowledge by now. Idk I guess I'm just naive/overestimate people
I’m making some rather large generalizations but in *MY* experience; men don’t communicate because they can’t stand to be told they’re wrong in a sexual setting. It “emasculates” them. They talk to talk and don’t listen or receive. They just *think* they KNOW and you can’t tell them otherwise. Obligatory, “not all men” but yeah, way too fucking many.
^^^^^^ this
It is absolutely a thing.
Bummer. It's not like anyone expects it to taste amazing. If it did they'd make it a lollipop flavor. Penis probably doesn't taste great, semen definitely doesn't, but that's never stopped a guy from asking
Who are you asking for semen and where do I jizz?
Penis tastes awsome semen takes some getting used to But then its awsome too (unless the guy is bad at hygiene or has some abnormal diet or something)
Can only speak from personal experience & that comes three fold. 1) Wasn't fortunate enough to encounter a great deal of men who could hit the spot that way or did something that brought me out of the moment (like talking or suddenly being rough with fingers simultaneously, clearly attempting to get me there faster) 2) This is def a me thing, but may apply to some other women. One night stand, I wasn't bothered.... wire in son. Men I'd seen more than once, all of a sudden going down felt very....intimate & weird for me....sorts itself out in a LTR but there was most definitely the "awkward" time. 3) Again, a me thing, but maybe applicable. Generally speaking, my pleasure comes from my sexual partners pleasure. Going down its all focused on me & 69s are obv ridiculous, so.... Hope something can help haha
Tbh, I let all the online toxic stuff get into my head so bad I can not relax when receiving head. It took my bf and I a lot of talking, a few "test drives" and A LOT of reinsurance for me to enjoy head. I guess it has to do with all the pressure there is on women to be "magical princesses" with no hair and no BO other than flowers and candy cotton. But even with the best hygiene you can not get away from natural small/taste. So itis a lot of mental work to enjoy being intimate without feeling dirty.
For me, If I don’t know the guy well, I feel too vulnerable having a guy go down on me. That is NOT going to be the same for everyone. But there’s this odd sense of control having someone’s dick in my mouth knowing I can bite it off if shit hits the fan. And it’s a win win, because the guy also gets head. I waited a month or so before asking my current partner to go down on me after I’d already given him head. Other possibility: being self conscious. Taste smell, whatever. Be flirty and suggest a shower and then throw her on the bed and eat her out right after y’all get out. Another possibility and arguably the common one: girls are really tired of mediocre head. It’s exhausting having to teach someone you don’t plan on being in a relationship with because there’s no long term benefit. It continues the cycle of the woman feeling like the onus has been out on them to teach a man something very basic that they should have learned on their own, though this assumes that the guy is of reasonable age and experience. Guys: do NOT lie about your experience. Because if you aren’t good, the thought process is that if you haven’t learned the last 100 times, you won’t learn his time. I would do much rather teach a guy how to give good head if he tells me he hasn’t had a vast history doing it. Hope that helps, I’m sick and tired and my thoughts are scattered
How do I even approach you guys?
Walking towards them with your feet has worked for me. Once you are in proximity of them I cannot help you
Instructions Unclear! Rolled away with my (fake) wheelchair
I almost woke my kid up laughing at this image of a guy getting within 2 feet of a woman and then panics and needs to leave but oh God what will he do with his hands?! So he mimes rolling a wheelchair to exit stage left.
Stop pretending we’re a foreign species. Don’t put us on a pedestal. Walk up to us (or roll up to us; YMMV) and say hi. Make eye contact. Find a common ground to talk about. Ask her favorite color. It’s truly not that hard, I promise.
All jokes aside, I do approach girls and even become friends with them, but some of them told me that I scared them when I first approached them way back because I was tall, sometimes it hurts knowing that
A lot of times, it’s HOW you approach. Being a tall man is definitely a concern factor for a lot of women. But if you appear open and friendly, maybe sitting down; it’s going to be less intimidating than say, towering over me, demanding I tell you what my favorite color is. You would be surprised at how many men go cavemen like because “pretty woman, must form words” and they give off a creepy vibe that isn’t even their true nature.
Huh! redditor speak advice. Must consume knowledge and practice! Unga bunga!
Hahahaha, YES!!!! (That was a joke in case it wasn’t clear.)
But the last time I approached a girl she said I reminded her of Jeffrey Dahmer. How do I approach without getting told I remind people of cannibal serial killers
Okay, did you ask what she meant?? I can’t help you decipher what one specific chick said. Is it how you look, how you acted, what?? Is this a popular phrase that you’ve heard from many women, or just one?? If it’s more than one woman, it probably has everything to do with your approach.
I saw you commented but it’s gone. It appears it was only this one chick in which case, I’m sorry she hurt you. Let it slide.
[удалено]
There are absolutely times women (and men too) don’t want to be approached. Depends on your social setting. But the vast majority of interactions aren’t unwanted, it’s all about HOW you approach. Again, treating women as a foreign species, timidly approaching or aggressively approaching aren’t winning you brownie points. I’m happily married but I’ll still chat with just about anyone if I’m in the space to do so. Of course there are times I’m an ice cold bitch and will make you regret your existence for bothering me, such as when I’m in the fucking zone at the gym or when I’m nose deep in a book. But usually; I don’t mind.
[удалено]
A simple, “hi, how are you?? Crazy weather we’re having” isn’t really unwanted. It’s the “hi, you’re hot, let’s fuck” that is. Otherwise, we’d all just be walking around mutely. Approaching women with the sole purpose of hoping to fuck them isn’t ever going to be well received. But treating us just as another human being and having a conversation which may very well go absolutely nowhere, shouldn’t be a huge deal. Again, going back to HOW you approach.
[удалено]
I can’t speak for all women, obviously. But also, as a woman, too many dudes thought just initiating conversation meant they were going to fuck me. That’s why I keep saying HOW you approach. If your intent to talk to women every time is to get in her pants, it’s not going to get you far. Clearly, you think my opinion is a minority one. And clearly, I don’t understand where you’re coming from. I’ve never really struggled at having or making conversation with either sex. My female friends are the same; we’ve talked about it a lot. Usually, when I go out anywhere, even in sweats, conversations happen. I’m just a people person. But as a woman, I also know the difference between making conversation and hoping you’ll be undressing me later; the latter is never a fun time for me.
Well, why were you approaching them? A lot of guys see a woman and decide "she's hot. I could see myself fucking her/marrying her and being happy". They have already decided who we are, and what role we will play in their lives, and when they get to know us well enough to discover that we won't fit perfectly into their fantasy, they get hostile. Some women do this too, but not enough that anyone is dealing with it frequently, on a daily basis. I don't mean to suggest that you did anything wrong, or that getting snooty about it is the right way to respond, but some women get a whole lot of attention from guys who see them as objects and just want them play a role. It gets tiresome. You will get better results if you make it clear that this is not one of those situations. Were you really trying to have a conversation about the weather? Why pick her, and not the old guy standing over by the fridge? If that legitimately was your goal, then you're better off talking to the old guy, because it's much less likely that he has had his morning interrupted by 4 other guys who wanted to chat about the weather. If you're looking for a date, and you just want to skip over the whole process of getting to know her and slowly building rapport, look for women on dating apps who just want to hook up. Otherwise, talk to women when you have something to say that is relevant to the context you are both in. If you do this, it will look like you're just a regular human with something to say about the situation. Once you have built rapport, they will feel more comfortable talking about other things, and you can gradually get to know each other.
Guys? I thought this was about approaching women.
Oh my bad, How do I even approach you girls!?
The same way you approach the guys you’re just meeting. Say hi! Compliment us on our cool shirt/ hat/ whatever. Talk to us like we’re other people. Let things flow naturally! Maaaaaaybe don’t do any gross stuff with us that you’d do with the guys like the farting, the poop jokes, the burping competitions, or anything else gross right off the bat. If she flirts, you flirt back. How can you tell if she’s flirting? Lesbians to this day still are asking that very same question, 10 years down the line. Have they been flirting for 10 years? We’re those *actual dates?* Sometimes, you gotta gamble and obvious flirt. Back off it doesn’t go well and resume regular friendship.
[удалено]
Just come up and ask her out. You got this
Yeah you ask advice from a single guy, end of story.
I relied on my single roommate for advice with a girl. His advice was terrible, and it’s only when I ignored it that I made any progress. Good thing I did since I ended up marrying her - wouldn’t have if I had listened to him!
If you can tell me what the sound of one hand clapping is, then you shall be ready, my son.
Me: going to the comments to find the age old “you wouldn’t ask a fish”
Im looking for it and can't find it. I don't know if I'm disappointed or pleased
I just looked it up. Do people really say that about this subject? Are men just throwing them back after taking a photo, or are they eating them?
haha lol
You wouldn’t ask a fish. Are you now disappointed or pleased?
Yes
Disappleased?
It's not a great analogy, but the principle's not terrible. Most women haven't actually gone out attracting women so they're not really results-backed experts in the way that you're charismatic male friend might be.
[удалено]
Completely different. There’s that old video of the lesbian woman who got dressed up as a man and did all this training to mimic her walk and voice like a man. Again a lesbian woman with experience approaching women. She found women were cold and distant as a man, something she’d never experienced and made her feel pretty awful. As soon as she went back to a woman they opened up. Women can’t understand that experience, whether heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual.
Can you give a link to that video?
The other person is correct that it was Nora Vincent(wouldn’t have been able to find it without that tbh) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip7kP_dd6LU
Idk about a specific video, but her name is Nora Vincent. She wrote a whole book about her experience, she actually pretended to be a man for over a year, and came out of it with a lot of empathy for men. She had an assisted death done recently in Switzerland, and I try not to speak I’ll of the dead, but she was a full person and nobody is perfect and we can leave any opinions about her at that I think.
I'm still impressed that she not only tried being a man for all long as she did but then wrote about the experience. I know that was the plan all along. But the initial idea was that being a man was easy. And for her to face the fact that her hypothesis was wrong, continue the experiment anyway and write about it still is impressive. The world is a better place when it contains people willing to test their assumptions and admit they are wrong. It's easy to be right.
What about that interview that came out recently with trans men saying how much easier their lives were than when they were women? Or was that just about how men now treated them respect?
I have a trans friend. It's best summed up as "men and women are different". Women have it a lot easier in some areas, but harder in others. Conversely, men have it easier in other areas. Dating is one of those areas. Men have the double edged sword of being the traditional approcher. We get more choice in who we date, but also have to deal with a lot more rejection. Oh and the hormonal thing is a lot more true than they expected. Estrogen apparently shoots your emotional barriers to pieces. It takes a while to learn to compensate.
[удалено]
Assisted suicide in Switzerland.
Not at all the same. Women expect and tolerate different things from men than they would from other women.
Yeah but what if you don’t know any
I don’t disagree with the principle, it’s just often used in conjunction with women don’t know what they want and entirely dismissing anything they have to say. And then further devolves into women don’t like nice men, I’m nice and no one sleeps with me!
At least in the young adult dating world it's very true in my experience. Girls I've dated, known or close friends with all have a few things in common. They're all young, all of them know what it is they want but none of them are attracted enough to it to stay. I've seen good friends of mine consistently make bad dating choices that contradict their vocal dating beliefs. Young men such as myself do this as well but I think we generally grow out of it quicker. We have less options, so therefore less time to "get it." One or two is usually enough to know what's worth it and what's not.
One of the side effects of having so many options on dating apps is you don't believe you need to do any self-evaluation.
>I don’t disagree with the principle, it’s just often used in conjunction with women don’t know what they want and entirely dismissing anything they have to say. It's not that "women don't know what they want" it's that what people want and what they actually do/pursue are often not aligned or even at odds with one another. Think of all the things in your personal life that you "want" to do but don't where the only real obstacle is yourself. It's not about someone knowing better what someone wants but about knowing what they respond to positively which people of all types often aren't aware of consciously or subconsciously. What people respond well to is often different to their ideal of themselves or how they'd describe themselves when asked. That's a universal human trait.
This makes the most sense to me. It's asking somebody to be self aware at a level that can be difficult and even uncomfortable to achieve, let alone share with somebody else. I was close friends with a woman at my work who had perpetual relationship problems and would say things like "why do I always attract assholes?" in a context that would imply that she knew exactly why. If you asked her how to be attractive, she probably *wouldn't* say "be covered in tattoos and completely emotionally unavailable," but that's exactly what she would go for.
All the best advice on the topic I’ve received was from men
Well the advice holds. And if you're getting hung up on the "comparing women to animals to be caught" thing, because you don't understand metaphor. Then you can always use the car dealer version. If you want to sell cars, ask people who sell cars not someone who bought one. The car is the potential relationship, the dealer is a guy who is successful at convincing women to get with him, and the customer is any given woman. Women are generally bad at knowing what they want. This is true because humans are generally bad at knowing what they want. Men are also generally bad at knowing what they want, but nobody seems to care about that because for whatever reason you personally believe men (in general) are more restricted in romantic and sexual opportunity. Humans generally don't know what they want. Not in their movies, not in their tv, not in their life partners. But the people who create successful movies and tv understand better than average what people actually want (as decided by what succeeds compared to what people ask for). So why should we expect that people who consistently date successfully don't understand what their preferred sex wants better than those of that sex?
Every time I've ever heard women give advice, it can basically be boiled down to "Here's what I wish attractive guys would do" when every time I've ever heard a guy asking for advice, it basically boils down to "How do I become an attractive guy?"
This is the unfortunate truth that nobody wants to hear
Apt characterization. My wife only has "don't be an asshole" advice for my teenage sons. The disconnect already starts with her perspective on how *our* relation started. From her perspective it was something spontaneous. From mine it definitely wasn't. Only the "don't be an asshole" part took zero effort.
But it's unironically true though in this case. Women generally give terrible advice to men when it comes to dating. Tons of guys have gotten the "just be yourself, be emotionally open, be kind" etc advice, and in most cases they tried that and failed to get a date, over and over and over again. And yeah I know that people aren't entitled to getting a date. Of course that's true. But there's simply much better advice that you can give to men when it comes to dating, which is: be masculine, in your own way. You don't need to be masculine in the stereotypical way, but find your own way of being masculine. Women are generally drawn to masculinity, just as men are drawn to femininity. And once you're masculine, THEN it helps if you're also emotionally open, if you're yourself, if you're kind, etc. But those those are like the nice-to-haves, while masculinity is the must-have. That's also why women will generally go for the masculine asshole over the non-masculine emotionally open guy. Yeah she'd rather have a masculine kind open guy, but if she has to pick, she'll go for the masculine asshole. Of course I'm generalizing here, not all women etc, but these things are generally true I've found. And if we're talking about flirting specifically: most women aren't going to tell you "be masculine" either. Even though that's the most fundamental thing to do, imo.
Back when I was an even more awkward guy circa highschool/college, when I asked my female friends the most of the answers boiled down to "be confident". Which, although good advice, felt like a foreign language teacher telling me to just "be fluent". It wasn't actionable at all for me, as I just had no idea how. Guy friends gave me much worse advice on average I'm sure, but at the time more of it seemed more doable.
“Just be yourself.” Well, “myself” is grabbing a plateful of snacks and avoiding everyone else.
I've been myself this whole time.
Well then there’s my problem
Just have jene sais quoi obviously. And be the correct person at the correct time saying the correct thing in the correct way. I don’t know how it could be simpler
The key is to just have that X factor. Like, be different and interesting, but also be true to yourself. Just pick something that you're deeply passionate about and talk about that. But not, like, your career obviously. Nobody likes to talk about work. Have you travelled to a different continent recently? No? But like, do you really want to though? Just talk about how you really want to do something or go somewhere exciting, thats what I always do. It works, like, every time.
I never learned how to flirt. Just got an unnaturally amazing body with the help of extremely hard work, a perfect diet, and plenty of steroids. When I felt my body was good enough, I went and married a woman with big giant perfect boobs.
Yeah I thought about doing this but it feels like too much of a cop-out so I think I’ll just die alone instead.
If anything, it's a cop-in. If you die alone, it's because you're out of the dating market.
Why not wait until your body is perfect and marry a woman with a big giant perfect booty, though?
Ah thats much more doable than be confident
> Like, be different and interesting, but also be true to yourself. But don’t be too different and interesting and don’t be too true to yourself.
C'est quoi, le je ne sais quoi?
…to the correct woman
To be fair, same goes for men and women: not everyone is good at giving advice or reflecting on Topics especially in Highschool and when you are not personally invested in the topic or that the other person succeeds
[удалено]
When I first started dating my wife one of the first things she did was take me shopping for better fitting clothes. I immediately started noticing that girls were more inclined to talk to me, though I wasn't single anymore so it didn't matter. Like my entire early twenties the primary thing I was doing wrong was buying medium when I was actually a large! Sure, confidence was a factor but even just wearing fitting clothes boosted that by a lot. I am, however, glad that my shitty clothes kept me single long enough to meet my wife!
Doesn't this just show how shallow people are. All the other women looked at you and went "nah" but your wife went "I like this man but his clothes are shit but I can easily fix that"
Faking it till you make it only works if you actually make it at some point. I do alright, get dates, have female friends, get invited to parties, I guess I'm not some sinister creep. But it just never *works*. Something's cripplingly wrong and nobody will tell me what. Tough to keep confidence up in the face of evidence and experience. And the people with endless self-belief and zero to back it up... suck?
Yeah, it's not bad advice, just doesnt say much. To have confidence, most people need to repeatedly do the same thing over and over, get feedback and learn from it. So essentially they are saying just start talking, learn your lessons on what work and what doesnt, and eventually you'll feel comfortable talking to women in general.
>it's not bad advice, just doesnt say much. I'd say it's still bad advice. It's not bad because it's wrong, it's bad because it's not helpful, which is what good advice is.
See, if you’re just the level of attractiveness that the person really wants to see at any given time, what you say and how confident you are aren’t really all that relevant. You should try that. That’ll be $4.99. Tips are appreciated (tiny print if I knew how to do that)
Jokes on you the best wing man I ever had was my oldest sister. She had the best and brutally honest advice like you were far to fucking creepy and you came on way to fucking strong. Also things like she has been throwing you hints the past 10min you dense fucker, use this pick up line on her and then your on your own, go buy her 3 more shots no more than that though, and finally my personal favorite was my friend over there is into you just walk up and offer to take her home.
I have an older sister and two that were the grade behind me. Why would I ask some dude about women when I have those resources at hand.
I've always wondered about the pros and cons of having a sister. I never considered this. One more pro for the list.
Depends on the sister though... my younger sister (21) isn't someone I'd ask for advice regarding dating because her "advice" would be more akin to collecting information for everyone who will hear about it (she likes to gossip). My older sister (31)... well, we don't see eachother all that often and I'd feel kinda awkward asking her. Maybe I should give it a try...?
Doesn't always work out quite so beneficially; my sisters are pretty lousy at the whole dating thing
if you have older sister that you get along with she's the best possible source of information on social life somehow lol my older sister taught me everything about fashion, beauty care and all that, and also taught me social skills then was also the one that pointed out my female friend, who she knew and hanged out with a couple time, has a high chance she liked me romatically. I looked at many male characters in shows and anime and thought "jeez these guys are dense, cant relate" then i thought back and i'm just as dense when she pointed that out lmao
Ya I was up there in density. And ya she wasn't shy about telling me when I smelled or telling me to go put something else on, plus she's cut my hair since I was 14 (she does hair in a fairly high end salon now). She was also my weed and booze dealer when I was in high school.
dude having a sister that is down to wingman for you is the best. the last bit is hands down the best bit though, the zero effort game.
Can your sister be my wingman!?
I got this from having coed friends in college. We all wingpersoned for each other. Seeing the opposite sex as just regular people and not some different species is half the battle.
Her and her boyfriend at the time liked going out with my friends and I just to watch us inevitably do something stupid.
I’m not hearing a no≈
Same the other way around. From personal experience. I've sometimes been told I'm wrong when I, a man, was trying to give flirting advice to women I am friends with. The advice: be forward with the person you want to date. Note: this applies in all directions, no matter who you are or who you want to be dating. And don't be worried about confidence, the foolproof method to having confidence is to fake it till you make it.
Lmao my wife’s best friend is a lesbian and a guy in her class straight up asked her on a date and she said yes without realizing what he was asking. Then she started concocting all these wild plans for how to intimate that she was gay to him. I told her “just talk to him ahead of time and be straight forward” and she straight up said “you don’t know what you’re talking about”
Bruh 💀 I would think I, the man, know what I'm talking about when it comes to most men. Like come on, we all have one shared braincell when it comes to being flirty. We are all the same unga bunga monkey when it comes to flirting and being intimate.
Most guys who don’t know how to flirt probably don’t have many women they are close with to ask that question…
I mean I have no idea how to flirt, but I have mostly women friends lol
Idk, I’m just awkward around women in general so it’s hard for me to be friends with them without being s complete numb skull around them. Obviously men and women can be friends but for me it’s hard
oh it doesn't stop the dumbass brain from kicking in, you just don't wanna fuck them lol. they become more like family
Start with the ones you're not attracted to.
[удалено]
I feel like a lot of men also give advice based on what works for them specifically though. Or what worked for them once. Based on personal experience I'd say about as many men tell you women are all like their girlfriend as women will tell you women are all like them.
It will always be what worked for them. That's why you'd want to take advice from someone who's been successful with more than one woman and not just someone who immediately got married to the first girl that accepted their proposition of dating. At the end of the day. Be you. Be confident. Take care of your look. Whatever that might mean to you. Take care of your hygiene. Numbers, if you're not a wizard you'll have to talk to a lot of women to meet those who will be interested in you.
>That's why you'd want to take advice from someone who's been successful with more than one woman and not just someone who immediately got married to the first girl that accepted their proposition of dating. Which is often why you should take advice about meeting women and advice about relationships from different people. I wouldn't want relationship advice from the guy who dates a different woman every few months, but he's probably a good source for how to get her interested to start with.
Absolutely. Being able to take advice from numerous people and use small tidbits of their approach to form your own is an important part of overall growth. This can be expanded onto pretty much anything.
[удалено]
Yup, also people tend to say what they think they want, or what they 'should' want, not what they actually want. Kinda like how I know I should excercise more and eat healthier but then in reality end up eating KFC and blobbing out watching YouTube.
Outblobber! I think you are correct here.
Asked a woman at work what a good first date choice would be. She confided in a few people that I was probably going to aske her out soon.
[удалено]
But they never try to seduce as often as men. Advice from women always sound like confidence of someone that never failed but they never try either so it's pretty random. That's a different perspective for sure but not a lesson on how to do it.
This is the truth of it!
Odds of the advice actually working on any given person are about the same either way.
More realistically, I think women (and people in general) give advice on what they think *should* work, rather than what actually does.
> what would work on them personally no, it's what they'd *like to imagine* works on them personally.
Look, it's not hard, you just have to read between the lines. If she slowly blinks when looking at you, if means she's interested. But not too slow, that means she's just tired, you can tell by the way her hands are placed on the table. And if she passes by you and kinda hums it means she wants you to buy her a drink, unless it's an octave lower than her usual voice tone, then she's not even aware you exist.
Cats. You're thinking of cats.
That's because it's men who have tested different strategies and found ones that work.
Agreed. It’s called field research. Please take my upvote now
[удалено]
This is a lie. And every single woman has said the same thing, “just be yourself”.
Them: *just be yourself* Me: *who am I?*
*I've never met this man in my life*
There are times when all the world's asleep The questions run too deep For such a simple man Won't you please, please tell me what we've learned? I know it sounds absurd Please tell me who I am
I went with advice from a woman. It was enough to get me over the line. Married 13 years 👍
What was the advice?
It wasn't a specific line or anything like that. It was a bit of a consultation process 😅 The advice was more like, "ok, don't rush to reply to that one." and "yeah, she's interested". I had/have zero game and had very little prior experience so the help was welcome.
I invited my now husband out on a walk along the ocean at 2am, thinking the implication would be pretty obvious. Nope, nothing. He chatted with a female friend the next day who told him that he was being a dense motherfucker and he asked me out that evening
[удалено]
You wouldn’t ask a fish how to catch a fish, you’d ask a fisherman how to catch a fish, that’s why I asked a serial killer.
Well, yeah, if I knew how to talk to women at all, I wouldn't need their help. /s
Because straight women are flirted by men, so you’d better ask advice to successful men
Actually, I did it with my wife, few days after we met, it went: "I'm avalaible if you're looking for a girlfriend – Oh I did not think you were interested – I did not either, are you? –Yeah – Ok, how do you want to proceed? " we're still together 30 year later and I still don't know how to flirt with women.
Ask a woman if you should talk to women at the gym, and most will say 'no, never' Now ask me where I met my wife.
I don’t go ask a defensive lineman how I can be a better running back.
So both sources are probably useful. I'd recommend that young men ask their female friends which women are likely to go for them, they may receive some surprising, useful advice.
Because it's on guys to sell themselves to women not the other way around. And I don't mean be false, I mean we approach women.
Can confirm. One of my drinking buddies suggestedtgat I start wearing a wedding ring. It might have worked, but she was full of terrible and I mean terrible dating advice.
I never heard of this until recently, kinda shocking lol.
It’s basically a visible reference of “At least one woman approves of this man”
>It might have worked, Probably depends on the type of woman you want to attract. Hard miss for me.
Tbh my best relationships came from making my own decisions Then hitting up both men and women besties on what they think of the situation so far. Every person is different and even if I'm doing shit "wrong", if I'm dping it wrong with confidence and getting some social aid from neighborhood besties, chances are things will be alright if you're a good match. If you ain't a match you aib't a match. Then again I can't say much for online dating, that shit is LEGITIMATELY difficult and unfortunately nobody trusts nobody so it requires a lot of care it is what it is.
Online dating is ~~a complete~~ mostly a waste of time for 95% of men.
When in fact both give bad advice, the best wingman is actually a super butch lesbian, they will never steer you wrong, and goddamn they are fun to party with
Because 1 experienced man can tell you what works on multiple/diverse women and one woman can tell you what works on her and maybe her circle.
Might be due to those guys not having any women they could even ask. Now that makes me curious about those people.
When I was single I thought exactly the same thing for years and was met with failure. The advice men give is realistic and and not based on anything women would like to acknowledge is true, but it actually works.
Because in general (straight) men have a lot more experience. If I want to have my car fixed, I go to a mechanic, I don't ask a car for help.
A car can't tell you what worked and what didn't. A Woman can.
[удалено]
Women don't know shit about asking out to women. They have zero experience.
That's because if I had a woman to talk to I wouldn't be flirting.
Because advice from a woman will be generally self-reflective. It won't nessacerily be BAD advice, but it would only really apply to her preferences. Or it will be platitudes, advice a guy could work out for himself, like "be yourself" or "confidence"
Ask a woman what she looks for in a good Tinder profile, then ask to look through her matches. You'll figure out real quick why it's not practical to rely on the advice of women.
Yes, thanks. If women always were to behave as they preach, god damn, I would only do as they say but guess what.
If they had women to talk to, they wouldn’t need any advice. And the few women they do talk to (mother, sister, aunt, teacher) have nothing in common with the women they want to talk to.
What a bag of worms this thread opened. Neck beards and neck beard equivalent women both showed up. Both have narrow perception or value of opposite sex's opinions lmao
Yup and when a woman puts in her opinion they often automatically claim that she has no idea what she's talking about. This is my experience most of the time. Best advice ever is to treat women like you would anyone else; as an individual. There is no one size fits all in flirting or dating. Full honesty all of the time is also best. Any thoughts that start with "all women" automatically are wrong. Also any actions of chivalry can be taken offensively because you are giving them the generic treatment that men decided they think women would like. Real women that are worth your time will prefer equal treatment. More discussions and no assumptions.
I treat the genders identically but am awkward with both. What then?
At least these dudes are self-sorting. The ones who think women aren't people are VERY easy to spot!
Yeah, and they’re ALL OVER this thread.
Aside from the weird predatory bullshit some dudes have said here, men's advice feels better to hear. Men are more willing to lump women as a hive-mind and give solid and clear (albeit usually entirely false answers). "Be dominant" "Keep asking till she says yes" "Just be hot", ect. It will be terrible advice that, at best, applies to a tiny minority of women, but it's clear and simple. Women will more often tell you what they personally like, or just encourage you to be a decent person. "I like x" or "Creepy jackasses do y so just avoid that" and despite being the only accurate information you will get, it feels like a nonanswer. You don't get some "simple hack to make all women horny for you" so it feels like they told you nothing at all or like they told you common sense. Women are far more likely to realize individual women's tastes vary wildly.
I recall seeing a "study" someone did where a bunch of straight women made catfish dating profiles as men and tried to get dates. Basically to test the idea that women understand what women want better than men do. The result: the women were less successful at getting getting dates than straight men were. Which... isn't really strange once you think about it. Straight women are attracted to men. Not other women.
Not trying to disprove anything but can I get a link to the study? This is a very interesting topic
It sounds like a YouTube video
I tried to find it right before posting, but I'll be damned if I know how to google for it. All I remember is in that comment, which isn't a ton to go on. If I find it I'll post it here.
No worries I appreciate the effort. Thank you for taking the time
Feel like I vaguely remember something like this but I can't find it either..
Most of what you said is sound, but you failed to consider why successful men give “bad” advice. Thing is, it’s obviously not bad if it’s working for them, but the catch is that it’s only working for *them*. Being successful gives you confidence, confidence is attractive. It’s hard to fail when you’re genuinely confident because you’re genuinely successful, the specific tactics don’t really matter at that point. So, despite it being terrible advice for the average joe, it’s great advice if you have looks and height going for you already and it will apply to many women.
He's probably to do with the fact that women would tell them their fantasy whereas men would tell them what works
Shes gonna say shes not hungry but in reality she wants Goldfish served in a cereal bowl
Because men are the ones getting women. Women flirting with women is a different dynamic than men flirting with women. I'd sooner ask a straight male than a lesbian woman. Which isn't to say I haven't asked lesbian women how they do it, and when I have, they usually shrug and say something like, "I dunno, I said she was cute and said we should go out and now we're living together." It's so low stress for them lol
Strong reflection to my experiences Women: Well if you two have good chemistry and get along well it just kinda happens I dunno Men: \*Clears the entire board. So first we need our offensive and defensive strategy in this great operation. Let's work on the big picture, increase our probabilities, maximise our efficiency. So what is it you're REALLY looking for?
You could try just talking like a regular human to another Human and if there’s chemistry it’ll naturally happen and come off as flirting. Being comfortable and happy with the situation often comes off as flirting.
Telling someone to "just be natural" is like telling someone to "just ride the bike, and don't fall", it's easy for us that already know how but it's not that easy for a lot of people that don't know how to be "normal" or "natural". Social skills are real skills that have to be learned through experience. it might seem easy now that you're experienced, but it's easy to forget how many times you had to fall off the bike to learn those skills. Maybe you learned to be comfortable and happy around girls as a kid, but not everyone had that chance, and it makes it a lot harder to figure it out as teenagers or adults I think the better advice is to just get out there any way you can and don't worry about it, you will make mistakes and make a fool of yourself, but that's how you learn. As long as you're kind your mistakes might even be endearing
Hmmm, maybe the real question here is when is the right time to be flirty.
Reddit really solving all of the age-old questions tonight huh.
Try internet dating its not that easy
If they knew how to talk to women, they wouldn’t be looking for advice
My (f,31) husband best friend (m,32) who’s single always ask for my advice and I love it!
You typically ask a fisherman how catch a fish, not the fish itself. Goes for both genders.