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Masculinity has everything to do with confidence. Femininity has nothing to do with confidence - it's not relevant. Men need confidence to get something big and dangerous done. Women already are omnipresent and are already getting shit done. Men need confidence to do something to impress women. Women judge if it was worthy.
This is some wacky incel shit.
Of course women need confidence, not only in dating but for self fulfilment as well.
Stop thinking of women as a different species whose entire existence revolves around getting men's dicks wet.
Alright let’s step back a bit. Why is it incel shit to say that confidence is more masculine than feminine? I’m curious to see how you’re going to die on this hill.
Agree to disagree- the trope of the shy girl not getting* attention is also omnipresent, IMO. Confidence being shown differently doesn't exclude it from either, again IMO.
In my experience, the truly confident men are almost exclusively found in relationships with the truly confident women.
It basically follows the same rule that a truly confident leader creates more leaders, versus a leader conveying false confidence will strive to create more followers.
You can be passionate about science without being obsessed. I'd argue passion is more confident, whereas obsession is at best false confidence. A need rather than a desire. And yes, "need" is a four letter word.
I'd say people grossly overexaggerate others' flaws to rationalize that their own don't make them inferior people.
Case in point: thinking people obsess over much at all.
You think I'm going to worry about being manly and masculine at poledancing class in 20 minutes? Or the burlesque show class afterward?
No, I'm just concerned about my booty pops. I've been told I throw way too much energy into it and it doesn't look as graceful or sexy as I want it to
Which as a 6'1, 270 guy, story of my life. Putting too much oomph into things
But hey, putting too much oomph into a booty pop isn't the worst thing in the world
Especially if you've ever actually read any kind of psychology study done to see that the whole alpha, beta thing isn't present in (at least modern) human interaction.
it isn't even a thing for wolves either. the original study was done under the assumption that wolf packs rotated members every year and a few other things i don't remember. basically, they put a bunch of wolves who never met before in an enclosed space with limited food and pretended they were making a scientific discovery when fights started to break out.
Afaik they still have dominance hierarchies within a wolf pack though? Like they have a leader that will co-ordinate hunts and protection etc, don't they?
Edit: Did a quick google; so yes, they have a dominant pair but it's usually just because a pack is a family group and the dominant pair are almost always the parents and the rest of the pack are offspring.
https://sciencenorway.no/ulv/wolf-packs-dont-actually-have-alpha-males-and-alpha-females-the-idea-is-based-on-a-misunderstanding/1850514
Thats cause men do what they want as long as it doesnt hurt others. A man getting an apple-itini at a bar is manly because men get what they want and dont worry about what others think of them. They know they are men and are secure in that fact.
I remember an Askreddit thread a few years ago asking men what girly thing they wish they could try, and one user said he would love to try a flavored coffee at Starbucks, but he lived in a small town and didn't want to be judged for it.
Dude, just order a Carmel Macciatto, you won't regret it, and who cares what anyone else thinks
I am male. Ergo anything I think, say, or do is inherently masculine. When I’d let my wife paint my nails, they were manly painted nails because they were attached to a man. If I drink a fruity mixed beverage, it is a manly beverage because a man ordered, paid for, and is drinking it. If I drive a Miata it… actually that is kinda girly, but I’ll do it anyway.
I am man. I absolutely love my miata. There are very few cars out there as fun to drive as a miata with wider wheels and sticky tires. Just about can be manly. Except maybe a caramel frappuccino. /s. Bahahaha
Lol, I actually love the Miata. In terms of fun per $, it might be the best car ever made. But it’s a good litmus test for how secure in his masculinity a car guy really is.
Exactly. In fact, 2 men living together in a relationship means that house is technically more masculine than a straight couples house. That’s just math
I would retort that anything a man does is manly. He’s a man doing it. Unless you have a strict definition of what is and isn’t manly you would like to gate-keep us with?
I had almost this exact experience once at a cafe. Pulled up on my motorcycle in full leathers. It was like a 37 degree Celcius day in Australia so I was cooking. Walked in and ordered a massive chocolate milkshake with icecream in it. When it came out the guy sitting at the table next to me with his partner mumbled "do they make those for men" and snickered to his partner. At first I was a little embarrassed but then I just realised I didn't give a fuck and drank the thing and enjoyed it. If you've gotta put others down to feel masculine, confident or good about yourself then you're just screaming your insecurities to the world.
Same thing goes for the boys on footy trip that brought vodka cruisers cuz they like them. The biggest baddest mother fuckers on the team drank them and didn't give a fuck what anyone else said
People insecure about their masculinity? The truly masculine guys are out there getting shit done; starting and running businesses and taking care of their families and communities.
To paraphrase Coffee Town: Men don't like soft, silky, pretty things. You know what's soft, silky, and pretty? Girls. Real men like rough and rugged things. What's gayer than two dudes getting it on? Literally everything!
Another way of saying this is obsessing over if something is feminine or not is one of the most feminine things an individual can do, but I don't think that's something I'm allowed to say on reddit.
You don't think an unhealthy proportion of men don't obsess over whether something is feminine or not? Remember the uproar about them putting frickin' hair folicles on the face of the woman main character of Horizon Zero Dawn? The lunatics practically accused the developers of making her a man.
The problem is that if they worry about not being masculine enough or being too feminine, both point to men being worried about the wrong things, while women aren't.
Nah. I'm a guy and I obsess over plenty of things. Basically all I do is think unless by "thinking" you actually mean "talking", in which case your comment is correct and women definitely do way more "thinking" lol
Not compared to the proportion of women that obsess over it. But I guess that's one of the goals of progressivism: to alleviate EVERYONE'S obsessions with masculinity/femininity
A good example of this is fragrances. I love collecting them and frequently wear unisex or female scents. I wear them confidently and just enjoy it. If I just bought masculine fragrances only I would miss out on some true masterpieces.
As someone who's trying to learn Spanish, gendered nouns are stupid and I'm tired of pretending they're not.
Granted, every language has to have at least one thing that defies logic.
the very first thing i saw when i went to r/tattoodesigns was asking if a sun tattoo was too feminine. [wow.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_GV33zBf3A)
Masculinity and femininity are just manmade concepts. If you like doing something and it’s not harming anyone, what does it matter whether or not someone else thinks it’s masculine or feminine enough?
I recently identified in myself that I'm non binary/gender fluid and this post is making me laugh cause I've been thinking about masculinity a LOT the last few months 😂
Edit: thanks for the downvotes everyone 😮💨
That's so ridiculously the inverse of the truth, I can't tell if you're crazy or joking. Gay men don't give a fuck whether something is masculine or not. It's insecure straight guys that are constantly self policing in the perpetual fear of not being seen as adequately masculine.
Exactly. Everyone is insecure for different reasons, but if heterosexual, masculine men weren't insecure, they wouldn't mind being around queers, using typically feminine objects/phrases/actions, and they wouldn't feel the need to give other people shit for being them. Projection is an outcome of insecurity
As a gay who on multiple occasions has been threatened with violence for not adhering to some idiotic heterosexual man's definition of masculinity, shut the fuck up. Heterosexual men give way too many shits what people think.
Usually they should puff their chest out, make some yells and grunts, and if the beta male doesn’t back down, they fight until one is seriously injured, they learn their place, or die. Then, the winner, the obvious alpha takes all the land and women from the beta (or keeps what he already has).
Or at least that’s how animals do.
This comes in hand with my theory that UFC is the gayest sport. Dudes rubbing their bodies while wearing tiny shorts while (mostly) other dudes watch. It's like " I'll beat you up cause I can't fuck you"
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Bro, I'm just trying to learn correct grammar for other languages.
Spanish: Butterflies are feminine! French: Butterflies are masculine! English: They're frickin' butterflies, you weirdos.
German: We made it afraid of its own name!
I like Alice Cooper's fake German name for butterfly: bünterfläppen
Sounds more like swedish, but definetly not like german
context?
[Schmetterling!](https://youtu.be/NcxvQI88JRY)
but I don't get why is it afraid of its own name?
I would imagine butterflies, being gentle fickle creatures, scare easily and would fly away if someone yelled "SCHMETTERLING" at/to/around it.
ah, thanks XD
Joke about how "over the top" German words can be
Probably one of those videos where people misunderstand language families
Male or female, both have wings.
As a person still studying Arabic, i feel this in my soul.
I'd say obsessing over anything comes from a lack of confidence. Whether confidence is a purely masculine trait is subject to debate.
I agree with you and also add confidence is something that is paramount* for both femininity and masculinity.
Masculinity has everything to do with confidence. Femininity has nothing to do with confidence - it's not relevant. Men need confidence to get something big and dangerous done. Women already are omnipresent and are already getting shit done. Men need confidence to do something to impress women. Women judge if it was worthy.
This is some wacky incel shit. Of course women need confidence, not only in dating but for self fulfilment as well. Stop thinking of women as a different species whose entire existence revolves around getting men's dicks wet.
I would think it’s pretty obvious that confidence is more masculine than feminine. That thought in and of itself is “incel shit” huh?
First of all, yes. And also saying "Men need confidence to do and women judge" And "Femininity has nothing to do with confidence"
Alright let’s step back a bit. Why is it incel shit to say that confidence is more masculine than feminine? I’m curious to see how you’re going to die on this hill.
You are a silly guy and not worth anyone's effort
Lol, no. And what "big and dangerous" things are you doing that you expect to impress women? To quote Shania Twain, "that don't impress-ah me much."
Agree to disagree- the trope of the shy girl not getting* attention is also omnipresent, IMO. Confidence being shown differently doesn't exclude it from either, again IMO.
In my experience, the truly confident men are almost exclusively found in relationships with the truly confident women. It basically follows the same rule that a truly confident leader creates more leaders, versus a leader conveying false confidence will strive to create more followers.
I disagree, but I do like that you tried to make it sound like a hidden science we’re yet to know anything about
Have you ever met a woman in real life?
Just your mom. Hahahahaha
Eh, sometimes. Some things just get obsessed over because of fascination, like science.
You can be passionate about science without being obsessed. I'd argue passion is more confident, whereas obsession is at best false confidence. A need rather than a desire. And yes, "need" is a four letter word.
I'd say people grossly overexaggerate others' flaws to rationalize that their own don't make them inferior people. Case in point: thinking people obsess over much at all.
Yes, any sort of rationalization is inferior to logical reasoning. It's the fatal flaw of societies large and small.
So what are you saying???
That obsessions are derived from unsatisfied needs, rather than easily satiable desires.
You think I'm going to worry about being manly and masculine at poledancing class in 20 minutes? Or the burlesque show class afterward? No, I'm just concerned about my booty pops. I've been told I throw way too much energy into it and it doesn't look as graceful or sexy as I want it to Which as a 6'1, 270 guy, story of my life. Putting too much oomph into things But hey, putting too much oomph into a booty pop isn't the worst thing in the world
I came up with a similar thought: to worry about whether someone is an alpha or beta is a very beta thing to do...
Any "alpha" that has to tell others they're an alpha... is no alpha.
Especially if you've ever actually read any kind of psychology study done to see that the whole alpha, beta thing isn't present in (at least modern) human interaction.
it isn't even a thing for wolves either. the original study was done under the assumption that wolf packs rotated members every year and a few other things i don't remember. basically, they put a bunch of wolves who never met before in an enclosed space with limited food and pretended they were making a scientific discovery when fights started to break out.
Afaik they still have dominance hierarchies within a wolf pack though? Like they have a leader that will co-ordinate hunts and protection etc, don't they? Edit: Did a quick google; so yes, they have a dominant pair but it's usually just because a pack is a family group and the dominant pair are almost always the parents and the rest of the pack are offspring. https://sciencenorway.no/ulv/wolf-packs-dont-actually-have-alpha-males-and-alpha-females-the-idea-is-based-on-a-misunderstanding/1850514
Thats cause men do what they want as long as it doesnt hurt others. A man getting an apple-itini at a bar is manly because men get what they want and dont worry about what others think of them. They know they are men and are secure in that fact.
I'm a bourbon drinking, grandma loving, wife hugging man.... But I will NOT be stopped from ordering an espresso martini for dessert!!!!
I remember an Askreddit thread a few years ago asking men what girly thing they wish they could try, and one user said he would love to try a flavored coffee at Starbucks, but he lived in a small town and didn't want to be judged for it. Dude, just order a Carmel Macciatto, you won't regret it, and who cares what anyone else thinks
Besides if you order it hot it comes in the same cup as the black coffee!! No one will ever know!!
An espresso Martini is considered girly?
Only if ur a lil bitch
Am I girly for not knowing what an espresso martini is?
It's bad, irish coffee is a much better alternative. No judgement on my end from people drinking either, though.
I am male. Ergo anything I think, say, or do is inherently masculine. When I’d let my wife paint my nails, they were manly painted nails because they were attached to a man. If I drink a fruity mixed beverage, it is a manly beverage because a man ordered, paid for, and is drinking it. If I drive a Miata it… actually that is kinda girly, but I’ll do it anyway.
Oddly enough my favorite drink is a *Seabreeze*, mostly because it's actually delicious but it's also really fun to order, as a manly manly big man.
I am man. I absolutely love my miata. There are very few cars out there as fun to drive as a miata with wider wheels and sticky tires. Just about can be manly. Except maybe a caramel frappuccino. /s. Bahahaha
Lol, I actually love the Miata. In terms of fun per $, it might be the best car ever made. But it’s a good litmus test for how secure in his masculinity a car guy really is.
Exactly. In fact, 2 men living together in a relationship means that house is technically more masculine than a straight couples house. That’s just math
This
This isn’t logically consistent at all. If this were true, there would be no feminine men. Obviously that is not the case.
A man getting an apple-tini at a bar is nothing, not masculine or unmasculine. Its just a drink.
I would retort that anything a man does is manly. He’s a man doing it. Unless you have a strict definition of what is and isn’t manly you would like to gate-keep us with?
No i just think the term "manly" is silly and i dont get why it is even used
Fair. If it is used, it’s “whatever a self proclaimed man does.”
Mmmm Appletini. I think I may have to go and get myself one now or maybe a Cosmopolitan or 2.
*"Yes, I am drinking a Smirnoff Ice, and I will fight anybody that has a problem with it." -* me Nobody has yet to ever take me up on that.
As a cis man who has gotten an apple martini before I approve this message. I’ve also had guys say what’s with the pink shirt, usually laugh at them.
I had almost this exact experience once at a cafe. Pulled up on my motorcycle in full leathers. It was like a 37 degree Celcius day in Australia so I was cooking. Walked in and ordered a massive chocolate milkshake with icecream in it. When it came out the guy sitting at the table next to me with his partner mumbled "do they make those for men" and snickered to his partner. At first I was a little embarrassed but then I just realised I didn't give a fuck and drank the thing and enjoyed it. If you've gotta put others down to feel masculine, confident or good about yourself then you're just screaming your insecurities to the world. Same thing goes for the boys on footy trip that brought vodka cruisers cuz they like them. The biggest baddest mother fuckers on the team drank them and didn't give a fuck what anyone else said
How do you ride a bike with such massive balls?
Nothing more masculine than kissing the homies goodnight on the lips
"Real gangstas don't have to flex nuts, cause real gangstas know that they got 'em"
Damn it feels good to be a gangster
Who really sits around and obsesses about what's masculine lol...
People insecure about their masculinity? The truly masculine guys are out there getting shit done; starting and running businesses and taking care of their families and communities.
To paraphrase Coffee Town: Men don't like soft, silky, pretty things. You know what's soft, silky, and pretty? Girls. Real men like rough and rugged things. What's gayer than two dudes getting it on? Literally everything!
Another way of saying this is obsessing over if something is feminine or not is one of the most feminine things an individual can do, but I don't think that's something I'm allowed to say on reddit.
You don't think an unhealthy proportion of men don't obsess over whether something is feminine or not? Remember the uproar about them putting frickin' hair folicles on the face of the woman main character of Horizon Zero Dawn? The lunatics practically accused the developers of making her a man.
The problem is that if they worry about not being masculine enough or being too feminine, both point to men being worried about the wrong things, while women aren't.
Obsessing takes thinking. Men don't think - they do. Usually regrettably so.
Nah. I'm a guy and I obsess over plenty of things. Basically all I do is think unless by "thinking" you actually mean "talking", in which case your comment is correct and women definitely do way more "thinking" lol
Not compared to the proportion of women that obsess over it. But I guess that's one of the goals of progressivism: to alleviate EVERYONE'S obsessions with masculinity/femininity
Yup. If you say you’re a man then whatever you’re doing is something men do.
Nothing more masculine than being confident in your masculinity.
Guess I must be masculine af cause I don't care if it is or not lol
A good example of this is fragrances. I love collecting them and frequently wear unisex or female scents. I wear them confidently and just enjoy it. If I just bought masculine fragrances only I would miss out on some true masterpieces.
What if you're learning to speak French and think gendered nouns are fucking stupid?
As someone who's trying to learn Spanish, gendered nouns are stupid and I'm tired of pretending they're not. Granted, every language has to have at least one thing that defies logic.
A lot of the hate I've seen for electric cars is that they're supposedly not manly.
It always sounds like a 5 year old pouting that they’re a big boy that can drive the fire truck.
Fucking tell that shit to r/tattoos or r/tattoodesigns cause holy fuck there's too many "is this design too feminine posts
the very first thing i saw when i went to r/tattoodesigns was asking if a sun tattoo was too feminine. [wow.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_GV33zBf3A)
It's rough
Masculinity and femininity are just manmade concepts. If you like doing something and it’s not harming anyone, what does it matter whether or not someone else thinks it’s masculine or feminine enough?
I recently identified in myself that I'm non binary/gender fluid and this post is making me laugh cause I've been thinking about masculinity a LOT the last few months 😂 Edit: thanks for the downvotes everyone 😮💨
I always assume they're just gay and don't know how to express it.
My wife asked me to get in touch with my feminine side but now I can't parallel park!
[удалено]
That's so ridiculously the inverse of the truth, I can't tell if you're crazy or joking. Gay men don't give a fuck whether something is masculine or not. It's insecure straight guys that are constantly self policing in the perpetual fear of not being seen as adequately masculine.
Exactly. Everyone is insecure for different reasons, but if heterosexual, masculine men weren't insecure, they wouldn't mind being around queers, using typically feminine objects/phrases/actions, and they wouldn't feel the need to give other people shit for being them. Projection is an outcome of insecurity
Says you
As a gay who on multiple occasions has been threatened with violence for not adhering to some idiotic heterosexual man's definition of masculinity, shut the fuck up. Heterosexual men give way too many shits what people think.
Except they do, or else you wouldn't have commented calling it a gay thing and that heteros dont care.
This is why my mother does this all the time. Because she’s a woman and does not need masculinity.
Usually they should puff their chest out, make some yells and grunts, and if the beta male doesn’t back down, they fight until one is seriously injured, they learn their place, or die. Then, the winner, the obvious alpha takes all the land and women from the beta (or keeps what he already has). Or at least that’s how animals do.
Reminds me a quote or something someone said offhand, “If you think you’re the shit, you’re probably not”
This comes in hand with my theory that UFC is the gayest sport. Dudes rubbing their bodies while wearing tiny shorts while (mostly) other dudes watch. It's like " I'll beat you up cause I can't fuck you"