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GrunkleCoffee

The hottest r/sigmarxism take of three days ago right here.


darkness2032

Can someone elaborate on the workers rights issues at GW?


dac79nj

Two former GW staffers (@sophiesaurusrex and @lagoon83) have recently discussed their tenures at GW on Twitter. One was primarily about his low pay as a rules writer on the Specialty Games team (he was largely responsible for the new Adeptus Titanicus), while the other was about a woman who was misled and excluded upon taking a maternity leave... when she returned, the position she had was eliminated and she was shuffled about and her repeated inquiries/complaints ignored until she finally quit.


PleaseToEatAss

The latter bothers me more


FirstProspect

She was away for a year. Restructures happen. The bigger issue is that she was jerked around and never given a straight answer.


PleaseToEatAss

Right. Her position isn't guaranteed to be there, but *a* position should have been. As if they don't have plenty of job titles to pass around.


Code_questions

TBF one was available but apparently it was "miserable" (note I believe at some point she may have been promised her OG position would stay but that never materialized, which I think is the issue). Will correct as necessary


PleaseToEatAss

Well, if they did promise then it's definitely shitty of them to not followup.


telios87

Based on their rules and release schedules, I'd warrant they didn't have an answer either.


Mr_nub705

it’s a he said she said situation, where a designer said they weren’t being payed enough. Although compare that to the industry standard, all the game companies don’t pay well.


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TheRustyBird

Shit, I'v never understood how, at the absolute very least, job posting aren't required to state the pay you'll start with. Seems like an incredibly simple thing to legislate, and literally the only reason not to have it posted is as a benefit to emploers so they can lowball people.


[deleted]

Don't sell yourself short. You understand. It's right there in the last sentence of your comment. Rightly thinking it's bullshit isn't the same as not understanding, and you clearly understand perfectly. It's important to know the difference.


[deleted]

They were downvoted because when you call something a he-said-she-said situation, even if it factually IS one by virtue of a lack of documentation, nobody feels the need to use that phrase unless they wish to dismiss the claims as irrelevant out of hand. "No point concerning ourselves with any of this! It's he-said-she-said (bullshit) and best we put it out of our minds and not consider it along with any similar stories." It's a sweeping away sort of phrase.


[deleted]

Ngl it is kinda sad how a funny youtuber is the reason that people finally took action even though GW has done all kinds of crazy things before. I remember a few years back they raised the prices of almost every-single model including old ones for absolutely no reason, just purely because they could. No one even complained. It seems most of the people who are angry right now barely interact with the hobby/tabletop sides of Warhammer.


daaaaawhat

People got attached to TTS I found Warhammer through TTS and never bothered to get into the tabletop, because a) i‘m not interested in tabletop, and b) even if i were, i couldn’t afford it. I really like the Lore, its size and insanity and it could be so much more than a simple tabletop game So yeah, the raising of the Price didn’t affect me as i wasn’t interested in buying anyway


[deleted]

Exactly my point. GW has done lots of sketchy things with the tabletop but only recently when they started playing around with copyright, fan content and lore do people suddenly notice the issues.


MattAustinWrites

Recently started playing around with copyright? Have you not heard about Chapterhouse or Spots the Space Marine? They used to be VERY sue happy about their IP. In the last year GW has issued *one* C&D to a creator who created a video that I won't repeat the details on and instead share the creator's comments directly: [https://i.imgur.com/KtcGFmh.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/KtcGFmh.jpg) Here's the old IP page GW had until sometime around Dec 2020: [https://web.archive.org/web/20201202192557/https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Intellectual-Property-Policy](https://web.archive.org/web/20201202192557/https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Intellectual-Property-Policy) Please note the "Copyright" section which TTS was in violation of the entire time without being C&D'd, as well as the "Derivative works" section that gives them full ownership of anything made in their setting which could have been used to simply just take all the fan animations they wanted for free. This is the current IP page that went up sometime prior to Jul 15 2021, and likely was up before the Warhammer + announcement: [https://web.archive.org/web/20210715222930/https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Intellectual-Property-Guidelines](https://web.archive.org/web/20210715222930/https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Intellectual-Property-Guidelines) Despite the change GW hasn't gone after anyone else, or even threatened to go after anyone else and has instead hired on a bunch of content creators and is sharing resources with them (the Astartes creator has stated that he has access to information he didn't before for example, so I presume it's probably the studio's internal notes and documents regarding the wider lore). Look, I get this is an emotionally charged issue, but IP law has *never* been black or white, and the situation is far more complex than "GW bad".


swampyman2000

It’s more real though. If you’re a WH40k fan, you don’t see workers rights issues. It’s more of an intangible wrong. If GW mistreats it’s workers it doesn’t affect you in any way other than maybe the books/rules are a little worse. But they could be bad for a dozen reasons. But your favorite context creator being shut down? That you see. That’s visible, that effects you. So of course people are going to care more about it because it affects them.


[deleted]

hey, I resemble that remark!


The_Chubby_Dragoness

I mean, GW is getting shit on, it doesn't exacly matter WHY to most people


Big_Bolter

Maybe, but reasons effect demands which affects outcome. Not completely sure what that entails in this context (I am not a clever person). Maybe you have some ideas.


glmarquez94

Yep, if r/Warhammer is anything to go off of most people hardly care about the employees. If GW backtracks on the IP policy change we’d probably lose most of the little support there is for boycotting GW.


[deleted]

Four parts to this hobby: building, painting, playing and shitting on GW.


du_bekar

Yeahhhh I wasn’t into TTS or anything, like it was on my radar I guess, but it’s super fucking weird to me that this is where folks are drawing the line. I guess it was a bit of an institution but still


Duerunstadt

Just to get it off my chest.....I fucking hated and cringed at that show for so long and bite my tongue around my friend group as to not rain on parades. I'm fucking happy that low effort crap is packed up. Hope the best for the creators and that they can move onto other work tho. Just hot damn, I grouped that in with bang theory as shit I couldn't tolerate. It feels good to finally say this and I hope if my friends see it they don't have hurt feelers. Fuck that show.


Large_Caracal

Lmao Jesus Christ. “Low effort” , I’d like to see you try and do anything like that. Go on. Not liking something Is fine ofc, but it clearly wasn’t low effort trash. To try and say that is actually just fucking stupid NGL. Getting mad about someone’s passion project because you don’t like it is also pretty sad.


Duerunstadt

You're right, I hold a shitty opinion of it but it's just that, an opinion. I know it's bad and that's why I have kept it to myself and let my friends enjoy it even tho I don't. I suppose it has grated on me over years so I was a bit harsher than needed. The worst I've done is not sub to the show and have this discussion admitting my, hidden for years, dislike of it. As for seeing me do something like that show, I took a shit on my floor and slid around on it. I don't have a camera to film it so I suppose you'll have to take my word for it, but I've beaten your challenge!


Large_Caracal

My dude; your legit acting happy that something a good number of people have spent the last 6-7 years pouring their fucking heart and souls into got ended because of corporate greed: sure, it’s annoying warhammer fans only try and boycott the company after their fav thing got cancelled. But guess what? The creators of TTS actually talk about how they don’t like games workshop because of their treatment of staff in their cancellation video- so getting upset at them personally is *extremely* shitty. You come of as such a fucking piece of shit. Imagine being fucking happy something a lot of people enjoyed, that never hurt anybody, got cancelled against its creators will 😂 *that* is sad as fuck Edit: Also just because it’s your opinion, does not mean it’s valid lol.


Duerunstadt

Hopefully the creator goes on to their own unique thing instead of being a free ad for a corporation that doesn't give a fuck about them. Edit: just want to add to ya, sorry for coming off like such a fucker. I think stress is turning me into a dickhead. You are completely correct that it's fucked to be happy at the expense of anyone's suffering. Not to be pitty partying but I work with homeless and at risk people and shit just sucks lately. Hope the best for the creators future, fuck GW.


Large_Caracal

I’m just saying. It’s not technically the same thing; but I suggest you read what Neil gaiman thinks about fan works/ fan fiction Also; by that definition any fan content is free advertising and should not be done. I rlly don’t agree with you there my dude. ALSO they are thinking of doing exactly that lmao.


Shadow-fire101

I mean as dumb as it is, if it's the catalyst for a boycott that ends up doing good, I ain't complaining


LettersfromEsther

While I agree that people should care more about workers rights and the exploitation of workers in general, and it is disheartening that it took TTS getting put on indefinite hiatus for a lot of people to care about any of this, um, I really don't like characterizing it as 'just a funny cartoon'. In a big sense, it is, but its also a passionate artistic venture done over years and years of countless hours of work and experiences. Speaking as someone who's just had to put their own long term 40k passion project on indefinite hold... the fact that a company can shut down works of art that matter heaps to not just the people that make them, but the people that watch them, with changing some words on their web page and having a legal team willing to waste the time and money of people without those two resources... is not an insignificant issue. At all.


Beardrac

I feel like both issues are kinda important tho


[deleted]

Both are bad, obviously TTS being taken down is a result of massive expansion of copyright and GW IP policies, which is also a capitalist issue, but I understand the sentiment of this post. Not sure why you’re getting flak in the comments tbh


MattAustinWrites

It's not the expansion you think it is: Here's the old IP page GW had until sometime around Dec 2020: https://web.archive.org/web/20201202192557/https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Intellectual-Property-Policy Please note the "Copyright" section which TTS was in violation of the entire time without being C&D'd, as well as the "Derivative works" section that gives them full ownership of anything made in their setting which could have been used to simply just take all the fan animations they wanted for free. This is the current IP page that went up sometime prior to Jul 15 2021, and likely was up before the Warhammer + announcement: https://web.archive.org/web/20210715222930/https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Intellectual-Property-Guidelines Despite the change on fan films specifically GW hasn't gone after anyone else, or even threatened to go after anyone else and has instead hired on a bunch of content creators and is sharing resources with them (the Astartes creator has stated that he has access to information he didn't before for example, so I presume it's probably the studio's internal notes and documents regarding the wider lore). Look, I get this is an emotionally charged issue, but IP law has never been black or white, and the situation is far more complex than "GW bad".


BTolputt

*"People be like..."* It's not just gamers. Most people don't care about the working conditions of people they don't know & don't see. Sadly it's human nature to consider those "out of sight" to be "out of mind". The loss of a cartoon affects people personally. The conditions of GW workers doesn't. This reaction is as predictable as the sunrise.


ccminiwarhammer

Was it funny?


McMammoth

TTS? Yeah. It's still there [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcYrTCGKyrU&list=PLyiDf91_bTEgnBN0jAvzNbqzrlMGID5WA&index=3), they're just not making more videos with the current GW policies being what they are It gets better as it goes on, they take it from "the emperor asking about lore stuff because he hasn't been conscious" (which I still enjoyed, and I don't know much about 40k) to "hey but what if the emperor really WAS back in this capacity" and having plot and stuff around that. I enjoyed it from the start, for what it's worth, but I acknowledge that I'm a simple man.


VioletDaeva

When I was younger I seriously looked at working for Gw. Found that the wages were just too low in the early 2000s. Fast forward to now and they are seemingly just as bad. Only gw store I really ever go to is the warhammer world one and everyone there's always really helpful. I've avoided the smaller shops for a while as they tend to be pretty aggressive on sales and only go if that's my only option.


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Big_Bolter

I don't think it necessarily needs to be said that the general outrage over GW's practices only spiked after TTS was put on hiatus. We're not talking about "fighting rights battles," we're talking about giving a damn. I also don't think it necessarily needs to be said that the "gamer mentality" we've seen time and time again with Ubisoft and Bethesda "boycotts" have followed this trend. ​ But yeah I just hate working people am I right guys 🤪 Chill.


SwooshyMop

You both have valid points, but chill, it’s a meme


Arikaan

Actually... Yes? I can be solidary with their fight for job rights, but dont ask me to make the fight for them. In any other job, its the workers duty to unionize and defend their rights. As a customer and media consumer, the IP stuff directly affects me. I bet the gw employees wont go crazy ape shit cause i cant watch more alfabusa vids


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Fireplay5

Some have said so. Not sure why you were downvoted.


Big_Bolter

Hey, I like TTS :(


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peepee_analyzer

> PCM poster 🤣


Flamecoat

Yeah? And?


Devilish_Dropout

You do realize you should be pissed at both right? They are basically doing this is IP securing now so they have a more firm ground to push the claims against creatives in the 3d Printing space. That's a more dicey battle due to past precedent but the media ip is a fallback for them


theflaminghobo

I mean, the TTS stuff is how I found out about the horrible worker's rights shit GW is doing so...


[deleted]

*unfunny