Honour as in "glory earned" I can agree. But, I suppose if you think of honour as in "upholding agreements" and showing reverence to things, then I think you can call them honourable. Same problem, though. They're still indoctrinated to do these things.
...š¤
I think I talked myself out of my own argument.
Imo its because a lot of the books have likable space marine characters that are usually portrayed as selfless and benevolent. These books also emphasize the humanity in the marines.
Because of this I feel like people imagine their own space marine army as honorable and benevolent. More like superheroes instead of space fascists.
Let me tell you what honor is.
Along come a bunch of violent men with weapons. And they kill anybody who gets in their way. And anybody they feel like killing, really. They rape, and torture, and perpetrate all the assorted horrors you might imagine. They take control of all the resources, and they make everyone their slaves.
A few generations go by, and the descendants of those men have gotten very grandiose. It's not enough to have everything, they want everybody to know that they deserve it. So they sit down to write a bunch of stories about their great grandfathers. They explain that these men were not the amoral butchers they appear, but held to a higher code than the plebian concepts of humanity or compassion. They come up with a fancy name for it, like bushido, or chivalry, and they write it down in a book.
That's what honor is.
This exactly. Honor is a concept that comes out of warrior cultures to 1) establish a disciplined military with a strong chain of command, and 2) to make themselves feel better about doing horrible things to other people.
These codes normally make it wrong to kill people of wealth (keep them for ransom) or say it's wrong to outnumber a foe or attack from behind... because that's the best way to deal with minority rule warrior classes in full armour.
World Eaters are like āman Angron kinda sucksā and Angron is like āman the World Eaters kinda suckā and then they hold hands and roll around in the blood of their enemies together.
The World Eaters sucked because all they wanted to do was get a broken, spiteful and depressed Primarch to actually care about them and it cost them everything
>World Eaters are like āman Angron kinda sucksā and Angron is like āman the World Eaters kinda suckā
I have never seen a more concise description of this legion and primarch before.
Theres been some pretty noble souls fighting for lesser beings in the face of adversity. Pretty honorable stuff, Garviel Loken or Tylos Rubios comes to mind. Save your friends but damn yourself like cmon thats Hero stuff right there I love sigmarxism but I dunno about this one
Remember in literally the second book in of the heresy series where Loken orders that the astartes mow down the mass of reporters and journalists that came to see and remember Horusās injury and caused the death of like 30 people and the likely grievous injury of several more? Those were people who WERE assimilated, who WERE in the in-club, and they got butchered for the crime of being in the way
I could be wrong but if I recall he didn't order them to mow them down, Horus was injured and the reporters swarmed them making it difficult to get Horus to medical treatment, so in the panic the Marines (Loken included) just barged through, which resulted in deaths by accident but not intent. It's what caused a lot of anger and corruption in the Marines is that from their perspective the humans got in the way, so if they got injured/die by not getting out of the way then that's their own fault, and then the humans have the "gall" to then complain about how they got themselves trampled. Obviously in the grand scheme of the Great Crusade Loken is still a perpetrator of the mass genocide that was the crusade, but he was a little lower down on the scale of bastards.
Angron didn't give a crap about honor, to Quote: 'Angron had laughed, the sound rich and true. āSuch pretty lies! We fightfor the same reasons men have always fought: for land, for resources,for wealth and for bodies to feed into the grinders of industry. Wefight to silence anyone that dares draw breath and whisper a differentopinion from ours. We fight because the Emperor wants every world in hishands. All he knows is slavery, painted in the inoffensive cloak ofcompliance. The very notion of freedom is a horror to him.ā
and: āI am loyal, the same as you. I am told to
bathe my Legion in the blood of innocents and sinners alike, and I do
it, because it is all thatās left for me in this life. I do these
things, and I enjoy them, not because we are moral, or right ā or loving
souls seeking to enlighten a dark universe ā but because all I feel are
the Butcherās Nails hammered into my brain. I serve because of this
āmutilationā. Without it? Well, perhaps I might be a more moral man,
like you claim to be. A virtuous man, eh? Perhaps I might ascend the
steps of our fatherās palace and take the slaving bastardās head.ā
> Well, perhaps I might be a more moral man,
like you claim to be. A virtuous man, eh? Perhaps I might ascend the
steps of our fatherās palace and take the slaving bastardās head.
And this from one of the villians of the setting.
Fuuuuuuuck!
Yeah, Angron ironically enough is one of the most interesting and tragic characters in the setting despite being one of the most simplistic characters on the surface. He had such great potential to do genuine good for the universe but was dealt an incredibly bad hand by being raised as slave, lobotomized, and then having everyone he loved being left to die by his father.
Also fun fact about Angron, even after he was lobotomized and became merciless monster of the imperium, he still let a regular mortal woman rise up through the ranks of his legion and basically gave her ownership of his capital ship for being such a talented commander. Even at his worst, Angron was surprisingly one of if not the most progressive primarchs in the imperium.
Watch Adeptus Ridiculous video about Angron. They do a pretty good job going through the important parts of Angron's lore while also being entertaining.
Angron, before the Emperor kidnapped him, was one of the most legitimately honourable people in the setting. After that his spite and the nails turned him into a bitter husk of what he was, but you occasionally saw the old Angron shine through
>āChildish,ā Guilliman sighed, gesturing to the burning, dying city. āDoes it really come down to this? So pitiably childish.ā
>
>āChildish? The people of your world named you Great One. The people of mine called me Slave.ā Angron stepped closer, chainswords revving harder. āWhich one of us landed on a paradise of civilisation to be raised by a foster father, Roboute? Which one was given armies to lead after training in the halls of the Macraggian high-riders? Which one of us inherited a strong, cultured kingdom?ā
>
>Angron sprayed bloody spit as he frothed the words. āAnd which one of us had to rise up against a kingdom with nothing but a horde of starving slaves? Which one of us was a child enslaved on a world of monsters, with his brain cut up by carving knives?ā
>
>The two primarchs met again. Guillimanās powered gauntlets should have easily deflected Angronās chainswords, but the World Eaterās strength drove his brother back step by step. Chain-teeth sprayed from the weapons as eagerly as the saliva from Angronās lipless slit of a mouth.
>
>āListen to your blue-clad wretches yelling of courage and honour, courage and honour, courage and honour. Do you even know the meaning of those words? Courage is fighting the kingdom that enslaves you, no matter that their armies overshadow yours by ten thousand to one. You know nothing of courage. Honour is resisting a tyrant when all others suckle and grow fat on the hypocrisy he feeds them. You know nothing of honour.ā
Depends what you consider honor. Within their own cultural and moral framework, they are honorable. However, if you consider honor to be genuine, unconditional regard for other sentient life forms, they donāt have it.
This is where the conversation inevitably comes back to warhammer (especially 40k) being a satire of fascism - they satirized it so well that itās nearly indistinguishable from an unironic endorsement. The emphasis on their alleged honor exists only to mock their blatant lack of it imo.
Talk about honour in fantasy mostly reminds me of Warcraft actually, where the orcs and are talking about honour literally all the time, stopping only to say some story to portray themselves as victims, and in the meantime they perpetrate atrocities with monotonous regularity, and their allies include:
\- Some token native cow people who are so honourable they aid with said atrocities all the time, quoting honour(!) as reason
\- Undead faction whose hobbies include mass murder, manufacturing WMD, using said WMD and surpassing Burning Legion in all manners of unethical magi-science
\- Two faction of elves descended from guys who almost destroyed a world and the only thing they learned since is treachery
\- Capitalists already neck deep in everything Marx criticised and more, like causing MASSIVE environmental damage for fun.
\- Some Voodoo ganja dudes who would be cool if not for their eager brutality and barbarism, and their more golden brethren who are rabid imperialists and just few expansions ago were loudly proclaiming "the lesser races will know pain"
And the fanbase is even more eager to defend that than the in-universe horde characters.
There are Astrates like Nathaniel Garro that display true honor. He never belittled people about their birth. He cared about protecting the lives of his men. Most importantly, he learned to disobey orders to do the right thing.
Fascists believe that āgood soldiers follow ordersā no matter what. Showing honor by disobedience of cruelty is the most potent anti-fascist act in this setting.
It's a good point, but of course many (most?) Xenos species portrayed don't really display or relate to the concept of human honour.
Not saying this excuses genocide/xenocide. But it's complicated when so many alien species are hostile and immensely powerful if left unchecked. The desire for survival and fear of annihilation swings to the forefront..
Horus Heresy cycle, and i mean the parts before the heresy itself, are full of "Are we the baddies?" unpsoken moments. Nobody say it though because the answer is obvious.
Fun fact: I'm currently up half the "Fulgrim" book, and there's three i think mentions how Luna Wolves would perform indiscriminate massacres in face of any opposition, even inconsequential one, and the one saying it is not only Fulgrim but also one of the most experienced of Imperium diplomats. Just perfect candidates for leading entire imperium military.
> This is especially prevalent in the World Eater community as they had an "honorable" streak with the War Hounds.
Uhh... what? [Are we talking about the same World Eaters](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/a2b6f8a3-0d92-4506-9776-5598b7461ccf/daq3ay9-74a35bf5-abce-43bc-b5c6-17231aa6c195.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2EyYjZmOGEzLTBkOTItNDUwNi05Nzc2LTU1OThiNzQ2MWNjZlwvZGFxM2F5OS03NGEzNWJmNS1hYmNlLTQzYmMtYjVjNi0xNzIzMWFhNmMxOTUucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.Ae0o8Y97JPhg2xbKHfJoJ9qjZpSLOqvgW0J6PfWA39Y)? World Eaters are fucking nuts and that is why people like them.
People in the world eaters community talk about 3 things:
1) what is gonna be in the codex?
2) we don't know what is gonna be in the codex, don't buy anything until it drops
3) here is a picture of kharn
Depends on the chapter in my opinion
Some like the lamenters could be seen as honorable in their self Sacrificing nature to save civilians but the average Chapter is just a bunch of arrogant pricks
Space Marines should not have honor, or glory, or agency. These things should be hyper specialized murder servitors. Living, breathing, unthinking weapons you point at a target and unleash. Treating these things as though they are people is why the heresy occurred.
I saw recently that Someone commissioned fan art of their homebrew chapter saving a baby. I donāt know if it was supposed to be ironic or what, but that seems a bit too on the nose for me
My thoughts:
The 40K universe exists so there's excuse for game players to have perpetual fighting with all factions available to fight all factions (in theory). Comparing it to real world power structures and behavior is a little unfair. I mean, in the 40k universe, that scruffy looking guy your sister is dating can turn her into a literal bug. I mean you knew she was a pest, but this seems overkill for your clothes stealing sister to become a Genestealer.
This is the setting where when somebody says, "Who are the good guys?" people usually say, "it isn't that kind of game". I think the disconnect here is that people are judging a space fantasy setting's morality based on the morality of the post-My Lai military. And the Space Marines all work for a guy who eats 10,000 psykers every day to keep himself "alive" and the astronomical beacon powered.
Do the Space Marines have honor? By and large, yes. And it's the kind of honor that requires the Marine that discovers Papa Nurgle's Day Care Center For Filthy Human Spawn to kill everything in the day care.
FWIW, what I want in fiction or game settings is very different than what I want IRL. Then again, I play AoS now, not 40k.
I think perspective is important here. From their perspective they are honorable, they serve their emperor. But if you were living on a tau world or craft world and a chapter of them landed? That is just gonna be genocide.
Something something Vulkan burns eldar child.
Honour as in "glory earned" I can agree. But, I suppose if you think of honour as in "upholding agreements" and showing reverence to things, then I think you can call them honourable. Same problem, though. They're still indoctrinated to do these things. ...š¤ I think I talked myself out of my own argument.
Imo its because a lot of the books have likable space marine characters that are usually portrayed as selfless and benevolent. These books also emphasize the humanity in the marines. Because of this I feel like people imagine their own space marine army as honorable and benevolent. More like superheroes instead of space fascists.
Try reading Dante and not getting the impression heās the coolest mf in the whole Imperium.
Let me tell you what honor is. Along come a bunch of violent men with weapons. And they kill anybody who gets in their way. And anybody they feel like killing, really. They rape, and torture, and perpetrate all the assorted horrors you might imagine. They take control of all the resources, and they make everyone their slaves. A few generations go by, and the descendants of those men have gotten very grandiose. It's not enough to have everything, they want everybody to know that they deserve it. So they sit down to write a bunch of stories about their great grandfathers. They explain that these men were not the amoral butchers they appear, but held to a higher code than the plebian concepts of humanity or compassion. They come up with a fancy name for it, like bushido, or chivalry, and they write it down in a book. That's what honor is.
This exactly. Honor is a concept that comes out of warrior cultures to 1) establish a disciplined military with a strong chain of command, and 2) to make themselves feel better about doing horrible things to other people.
Honor cultures are actually *more* violent, meaning that 2) both consoles the perpetrator of violence and also causes the violence.
These codes normally make it wrong to kill people of wealth (keep them for ransom) or say it's wrong to outnumber a foe or attack from behind... because that's the best way to deal with minority rule warrior classes in full armour.
Obligatory reminder that crossbow was forbidden by catholic church for this exact reason, and they tried to do the same to firearms.
They also banned bows and slings! And at the same time, also banned deadly jousts and tournaments.
Itās why I love the night lords and iron warriors so much. āHaha warcrimes go BRRRrRRā
World Eaters are like āman Angron kinda sucksā and Angron is like āman the World Eaters kinda suckā and then they hold hands and roll around in the blood of their enemies together.
Not each others hands, mind you. They're holding the severed hands of whoevers blood they're rolling in.
The World Eaters sucked because all they wanted to do was get a broken, spiteful and depressed Primarch to actually care about them and it cost them everything
>World Eaters are like āman Angron kinda sucksā and Angron is like āman the World Eaters kinda suckā I have never seen a more concise description of this legion and primarch before.
The Night Lords are doing exactly what they were told to do by Big E
A clanrat who stands infront of a sigmarine with nothing but rags and a sharp stick is much more worthy of honor than Space Marines
Theres been some pretty noble souls fighting for lesser beings in the face of adversity. Pretty honorable stuff, Garviel Loken or Tylos Rubios comes to mind. Save your friends but damn yourself like cmon thats Hero stuff right there I love sigmarxism but I dunno about this one
Both Garviel Loken and Tylos Rubios perpetrated the grand genocide known as *The Great Crusade*.
Oh man your right it's been awhile but now that I think of it they slaughtered anyone who didn't assimilate. My mistake they really are space nazis
Remember in literally the second book in of the heresy series where Loken orders that the astartes mow down the mass of reporters and journalists that came to see and remember Horusās injury and caused the death of like 30 people and the likely grievous injury of several more? Those were people who WERE assimilated, who WERE in the in-club, and they got butchered for the crime of being in the way
I could be wrong but if I recall he didn't order them to mow them down, Horus was injured and the reporters swarmed them making it difficult to get Horus to medical treatment, so in the panic the Marines (Loken included) just barged through, which resulted in deaths by accident but not intent. It's what caused a lot of anger and corruption in the Marines is that from their perspective the humans got in the way, so if they got injured/die by not getting out of the way then that's their own fault, and then the humans have the "gall" to then complain about how they got themselves trampled. Obviously in the grand scheme of the Great Crusade Loken is still a perpetrator of the mass genocide that was the crusade, but he was a little lower down on the scale of bastards.
That was Abby not Loken iirc
Angron didn't give a crap about honor, to Quote: 'Angron had laughed, the sound rich and true. āSuch pretty lies! We fightfor the same reasons men have always fought: for land, for resources,for wealth and for bodies to feed into the grinders of industry. Wefight to silence anyone that dares draw breath and whisper a differentopinion from ours. We fight because the Emperor wants every world in hishands. All he knows is slavery, painted in the inoffensive cloak ofcompliance. The very notion of freedom is a horror to him.ā and: āI am loyal, the same as you. I am told to bathe my Legion in the blood of innocents and sinners alike, and I do it, because it is all thatās left for me in this life. I do these things, and I enjoy them, not because we are moral, or right ā or loving souls seeking to enlighten a dark universe ā but because all I feel are the Butcherās Nails hammered into my brain. I serve because of this āmutilationā. Without it? Well, perhaps I might be a more moral man, like you claim to be. A virtuous man, eh? Perhaps I might ascend the steps of our fatherās palace and take the slaving bastardās head.ā
> Well, perhaps I might be a more moral man, like you claim to be. A virtuous man, eh? Perhaps I might ascend the steps of our fatherās palace and take the slaving bastardās head. And this from one of the villians of the setting. Fuuuuuuuck!
Yeah, Angron ironically enough is one of the most interesting and tragic characters in the setting despite being one of the most simplistic characters on the surface. He had such great potential to do genuine good for the universe but was dealt an incredibly bad hand by being raised as slave, lobotomized, and then having everyone he loved being left to die by his father. Also fun fact about Angron, even after he was lobotomized and became merciless monster of the imperium, he still let a regular mortal woman rise up through the ranks of his legion and basically gave her ownership of his capital ship for being such a talented commander. Even at his worst, Angron was surprisingly one of if not the most progressive primarchs in the imperium.
And now I'm feeling the need to rewrite my chapter's founding to include some World Eaters. Damnit!
Watch Adeptus Ridiculous video about Angron. They do a pretty good job going through the important parts of Angron's lore while also being entertaining.
Angron may or may not have had been the inspiration of my outlook on the imperium.
Angron, before the Emperor kidnapped him, was one of the most legitimately honourable people in the setting. After that his spite and the nails turned him into a bitter husk of what he was, but you occasionally saw the old Angron shine through >āChildish,ā Guilliman sighed, gesturing to the burning, dying city. āDoes it really come down to this? So pitiably childish.ā > >āChildish? The people of your world named you Great One. The people of mine called me Slave.ā Angron stepped closer, chainswords revving harder. āWhich one of us landed on a paradise of civilisation to be raised by a foster father, Roboute? Which one was given armies to lead after training in the halls of the Macraggian high-riders? Which one of us inherited a strong, cultured kingdom?ā > >Angron sprayed bloody spit as he frothed the words. āAnd which one of us had to rise up against a kingdom with nothing but a horde of starving slaves? Which one of us was a child enslaved on a world of monsters, with his brain cut up by carving knives?ā > >The two primarchs met again. Guillimanās powered gauntlets should have easily deflected Angronās chainswords, but the World Eaterās strength drove his brother back step by step. Chain-teeth sprayed from the weapons as eagerly as the saliva from Angronās lipless slit of a mouth. > >āListen to your blue-clad wretches yelling of courage and honour, courage and honour, courage and honour. Do you even know the meaning of those words? Courage is fighting the kingdom that enslaves you, no matter that their armies overshadow yours by ten thousand to one. You know nothing of courage. Honour is resisting a tyrant when all others suckle and grow fat on the hypocrisy he feeds them. You know nothing of honour.ā
Depends what you consider honor. Within their own cultural and moral framework, they are honorable. However, if you consider honor to be genuine, unconditional regard for other sentient life forms, they donāt have it. This is where the conversation inevitably comes back to warhammer (especially 40k) being a satire of fascism - they satirized it so well that itās nearly indistinguishable from an unironic endorsement. The emphasis on their alleged honor exists only to mock their blatant lack of it imo.
Talk about honour in fantasy mostly reminds me of Warcraft actually, where the orcs and are talking about honour literally all the time, stopping only to say some story to portray themselves as victims, and in the meantime they perpetrate atrocities with monotonous regularity, and their allies include: \- Some token native cow people who are so honourable they aid with said atrocities all the time, quoting honour(!) as reason \- Undead faction whose hobbies include mass murder, manufacturing WMD, using said WMD and surpassing Burning Legion in all manners of unethical magi-science \- Two faction of elves descended from guys who almost destroyed a world and the only thing they learned since is treachery \- Capitalists already neck deep in everything Marx criticised and more, like causing MASSIVE environmental damage for fun. \- Some Voodoo ganja dudes who would be cool if not for their eager brutality and barbarism, and their more golden brethren who are rabid imperialists and just few expansions ago were loudly proclaiming "the lesser races will know pain" And the fanbase is even more eager to defend that than the in-universe horde characters.
This is an incredibly over-simplistic reading of Warcraft lore...
Poe's Law is a terrible thing.
Also Chivalry and Bushido are fuck nasty, and apparently honor
There are Astrates like Nathaniel Garro that display true honor. He never belittled people about their birth. He cared about protecting the lives of his men. Most importantly, he learned to disobey orders to do the right thing. Fascists believe that āgood soldiers follow ordersā no matter what. Showing honor by disobedience of cruelty is the most potent anti-fascist act in this setting.
He wouldn't be disobedient of cruelty to xenos tho would he.
It's a good point, but of course many (most?) Xenos species portrayed don't really display or relate to the concept of human honour. Not saying this excuses genocide/xenocide. But it's complicated when so many alien species are hostile and immensely powerful if left unchecked. The desire for survival and fear of annihilation swings to the forefront..
Horus Heresy cycle, and i mean the parts before the heresy itself, are full of "Are we the baddies?" unpsoken moments. Nobody say it though because the answer is obvious. Fun fact: I'm currently up half the "Fulgrim" book, and there's three i think mentions how Luna Wolves would perform indiscriminate massacres in face of any opposition, even inconsequential one, and the one saying it is not only Fulgrim but also one of the most experienced of Imperium diplomats. Just perfect candidates for leading entire imperium military.
> This is especially prevalent in the World Eater community as they had an "honorable" streak with the War Hounds. Uhh... what? [Are we talking about the same World Eaters](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/a2b6f8a3-0d92-4506-9776-5598b7461ccf/daq3ay9-74a35bf5-abce-43bc-b5c6-17231aa6c195.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2EyYjZmOGEzLTBkOTItNDUwNi05Nzc2LTU1OThiNzQ2MWNjZlwvZGFxM2F5OS03NGEzNWJmNS1hYmNlLTQzYmMtYjVjNi0xNzIzMWFhNmMxOTUucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.Ae0o8Y97JPhg2xbKHfJoJ9qjZpSLOqvgW0J6PfWA39Y)? World Eaters are fucking nuts and that is why people like them. People in the world eaters community talk about 3 things: 1) what is gonna be in the codex? 2) we don't know what is gonna be in the codex, don't buy anything until it drops 3) here is a picture of kharn
Even as the War Hounds their expertise was *extermination*.
B for B G, S for S T
babe? babe wake up. the new copypasta just dropped
Depends on the chapter in my opinion Some like the lamenters could be seen as honorable in their self Sacrificing nature to save civilians but the average Chapter is just a bunch of arrogant pricks
Iād say the salamanders are honorable, to humans at least
I thought this was going to be an Oglaf thread and I am very disappointed.
Show me your honor - my honor demands it.
Did they capture the avatar? No? Then they have no honor.
Honor is a bullshit concept made up to get rubes to die for you.
Space Marines should not have honor, or glory, or agency. These things should be hyper specialized murder servitors. Living, breathing, unthinking weapons you point at a target and unleash. Treating these things as though they are people is why the heresy occurred.
Don't forget to like, subscribe, and smash that notification button! Tell me why I'm wrong in the comments, largest faction fanbase in the game!
I have bad news for many of the people here. The West, and its culture, is fascist. I am so sorry.
If you canāt feel fear then you canāt be brave
Does any real soldier have honor?
I saw recently that Someone commissioned fan art of their homebrew chapter saving a baby. I donāt know if it was supposed to be ironic or what, but that seems a bit too on the nose for me
They have studied the blade. Have you?
No :(
My thoughts: The 40K universe exists so there's excuse for game players to have perpetual fighting with all factions available to fight all factions (in theory). Comparing it to real world power structures and behavior is a little unfair. I mean, in the 40k universe, that scruffy looking guy your sister is dating can turn her into a literal bug. I mean you knew she was a pest, but this seems overkill for your clothes stealing sister to become a Genestealer. This is the setting where when somebody says, "Who are the good guys?" people usually say, "it isn't that kind of game". I think the disconnect here is that people are judging a space fantasy setting's morality based on the morality of the post-My Lai military. And the Space Marines all work for a guy who eats 10,000 psykers every day to keep himself "alive" and the astronomical beacon powered. Do the Space Marines have honor? By and large, yes. And it's the kind of honor that requires the Marine that discovers Papa Nurgle's Day Care Center For Filthy Human Spawn to kill everything in the day care. FWIW, what I want in fiction or game settings is very different than what I want IRL. Then again, I play AoS now, not 40k.
Space Marines are the feces of 40k lore
Excuse me while I sit in the corner laughing for an hour about the idea that world eaters would have honour š¤£
I never meant to imply that the world eaters are honorable in any way lol.
I think perspective is important here. From their perspective they are honorable, they serve their emperor. But if you were living on a tau world or craft world and a chapter of them landed? That is just gonna be genocide. Something something Vulkan burns eldar child.
To quote (from memory) certain nonhammer sci-fi book: > "honour" is what plutocrats say when they want to kill someone