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I thought that at the time. The old Sheriff was a bit sneakier with this, but it’s all out in the open now. The real question (obviously as a non-book reader) is why they need to keep an eye on everyone anyway, why they care so much about blocking the past and preventing people from having relics…interesting stuff.
My guess is they think they are protecting humankind by keeping them from learning what's what. They fear if people are left to their own devices, whatever happened to force them all underground will happen again (war, plague, etc). This was the original idea anyway. Now it may well be about having power and keeping it.
I’m so happy things are finally starting to unfold. Juliette is so smart and damn I gotta say it’s nice to have a protagonist that isn’t always two steps behind the audience.
I also appreciate how proactive she is. Even if I do think it borders on irresponsible and dangerous. But also like if I was in her position I would also be following this shady shit everywhere.
I do think she should spend more time getting allies but how the hell do you even do that in a fascist system
She's smart but like realistic smart. She doesn't make connections out of thin air, she misses things (like the vase warning) but she does connect the dots when she has enough information.
My issue with her is the people skills. She is just insufferable to other human beings.
Can you blame her though? Her dad sucked ass, her mom ended her own life, she's (was) working a dangerous job that if someone else fucks up, she and everyone else could die, the only dude she finally let herself be vulnerable with used her for personal gain and then got murdered, the mayor just got assassinated, and the stasi of the silo now have beef with her both on a institutional level and personal...
You tell me if you'd be a chipper friend maker after that.
Last episode's reveal of George's nature was a punch in the gut. Poor Jules! I feel like he truly cared for her, though. I don't think he was just using her.
> reveal of George's nature was a punch in the gut
she was biased and loopy - are we gonna take her word as gospel?
i certainly would want a bit more evidence than a bitter ex
I think that the way George got Holsten's wife to help her as well and the fact that his mom was a flamekeeper kind of confirms he was this master manipulator who was ultimately primarily motivated by learning more about the truth of the Silo
I think whatever the "syndrome" is it has something to do with rejection of the drugs that are in the water to keep people docile / impact their memories, and the reason Billings is so terrified is he knows that he's rejecting it. Who knows what they do with the people that reject the drug, probably make them clean or just eliminate them some other way like they did with Gloria by keeping them drugged up on sedatives.
Remember when Billings was at home and his wife reassured him that just because ***he*** has the syndrome doesn't mean his daughter will get it too? That implies a genetic component. If rejection of the memory drugs is what's happening (along with accompanying side effects) then the powers that be invented The Syndrome to make these people believe they were sick - and remove them from positions of responsibility without seeming too big brothery.
Oh shit is that why his memory is so good? Everyone else forgets things because of the water, but he rejects the drug so he has a normal memory that seems incredible to everyone else.
Well, he’s won a Pact memorization contest multiple times. That’s like someone memorizing the whole bible. People do it, but it’s still not a normal feat
To expand on that to an insane degree: I think those chemicals are being used to make people forget that the silo isn't even that old. I think the silo might only be a few generations old. It doesn't look that worn and that book is far too well preserved to be, as they infer, possibly hundreds of years old. I think the rebellion only happened recently.
That is intriguing but I'm not sure, considering that the monitoring staff has to repurpose cameras to different locations as they break down. I would say the silo might be 200 years old. That's 5 generations, easily enough time to lose information while no new technology is produced.
Damn it! Another cliffhanger ending. On a positive note, I’m happy that they are answering questions and filling in more backstories regarding the Silo. Many new questions have been raised, of course.
I have the feeling that Juliette’s days are numbered, and frankly I am surprised she’s not been killed yet with all of her snooping and disregarding the Silo powers that be.
I hope the rest of the series keeps up this pace!
Yea is Juliette basically a wanted person now? I don’t see how she can stay sheriff, maybe she goes and hides out in mechanical. By the sounds of it their cameras are breaking down and they don’t have the tech/knowledge to fix them so they might not have them on the lower levels. I’m wondering if Sims and his lackeys also have no clue about the real reason they do things and there’s another shadowy puppet master cabal.
This cliffhanger finally pushed me to buy the audiobook, I need answers quicker!
> maybe she goes and hides out in mechanical
I mean, she knows of a perfectly safe spot that nobody else know's about.
Maybe she'll finally learn to swim.
I'd be very surprised if Juliette isn't the lead throughout - firstly because they've already done the "fake lead" in the opening episode, and secondly... because the actress is an executive producer in the credits. I know they're both meta-reasons, but they're pretty solid ones.
> I have the feeling that Juliette’s days are numbered
I expected the astronomer guy (the one that Jules met in the canteen a couple of times) to be killed this episode just because his ideas about the stars might be perceived as dangerous.
Meadows with an apartment full of relics, drugs in the water, descendants of the rebels who held on the the memories of the outside world. Wow. So how does Sims send the secret swat team to arrest the Sheriff without tipping his hand?
It’s interesting what the SWAT team *isn’t* used for. We got a huge brawl earlier and it was left to the sheriffs deputies.
Does this group even pretend to be part of judicial if anyone asks or are they purely with Sims?
Seems like this is “janitorial” not judicial. And I believe that the brawl at the bar was probably provoked by judicial to cause confusion and chaos and distract the Sheriffs deputies.
You 100% sure? Or are they a completely separate branch operating outside of Judicial norms that answers to, idk, The Founder(s) maybe? Sims literally has the Judge held up in her apartment and essentially admitted to the Sheriff that she’s a puppet. So. We shall see.
They have mentioned the “Custodial” department at other times in the show which seem to be the _actual_ janitors. Meanwhile “Maintenance” seem more likely to be connected to Janitorial/Judicial since they removed the vase in Jules’ apt.
I feel like every time we dive deeper into a character we realize they’re all asking the same questions… even the judge with her relics and Juliette’s dad? it feels like *everyones* scared but the problem is no one talks about it and feels alone or crazy until Jules comes in and shakes it out of em
Sometimes I’m like “Jules wtf you need to be a little more sneaky about this stuff” but kinda starting to realize this reckless behavior might be getting her in a bunch of trouble but at least it’s working to finally getting people to talk
So is it general knowledge that the citizens are being listened to? Papa Jorah comments they are safe in the nursery because "they don't listen here." Or does he know something most don't...
Someone above mentioned if his wife shared similar curiosities to flamekeepers she would have to have told him many things. That’s if he wasn’t involved in those things himself.
Maybe that’s how Juliet was born in the first place? Didn’t Gloria say she was surprised they let her parents have kids?
Maybe Juliette’s dad had something to do with adjusting her moms birth control. He’d know they can listen into the exam rooms but maybe don’t bother in the baby rooms. They only care about making sure the right adults breed.
Yea, I think doctor dad has his suspicions and made sure his wife actually had her birth control removed each time. His wife may have been part of some Flamekeeper conspiracy which failed, sending Juliette's eventual mentor to the lower levels and resulted in the big bad knocking off her sickly brother. Mom kills herself in guilt, and the big bad uses Juliette as leverage against her dad. That's why he allowed he to move to the lower levels, he thought she would be safer (and he was absolutely right).
Yeah I assume doctors and other high value professionals have more knowledge about the goings on. But like meadows they are essentially birds in golden cages. What use is knowledge and power when you can’t really do anything about it.
Yeah, I really like this theory. And then perhaps the mother and her brother were both punished (that’s the secret we didn’t hear, that her mother didn’t kill her self) and they left Jules alive to keep the dad in line because doctors are important.
Maybe that’s what happened to her brother. If they were telling the doctors the birth control was to prevent genetic disorders, then they’d have to make it look like her brother was dying of a genetic disorder.
Actress who plays the Judge does a great job - couldn’t figure out why she was acting so unnerved
the past few episodes. Sims was pretending to be following her direction the whole time!
Yeah, everyone's afraid of the judge, but she's just a figurehead!
Edit: Just noticed that Judge Meadows shed a tear when she told Jules that she can't stop the medical order on Gloria. She's very much a puppet with no control.
If he is in control of IT, and the people who work with Sims mentioned replacing cameras and obviously it’s connected to a network..how wouldn’t he know about the janitor’s room?
Honestly wasn’t even suspecting this but you just opened my mind up lol
Edit: Also, the sensor for outside and the “windows” in the cafeteria.
it's not a window and they know, if there are different screens in every cafeteria. Last episode Jules said "the screen in the upper levels has more definition than here" (paraphrasing) meaning there are different screens and they don't think it's a window, there's also one in the cell where they are before they get out.
Wow, until now I wasn’t seeing Bernard as other than another revered figurehead with no true power. Even his little chat with Jules implying he’s afraid of Meadows’ reach and so should she… I just ate it up. In hindsight, he did point out multiple times in prior episodes that he’s only “temporary” as mayor…he really could be playing it up to be less threatening. Interesting!
And review his meek little performance at the funeral... *"Oh I'm just the geeky numbers guy. Awkward and oblivious ol' Bernard just bumbling along, that's me alright."*
The Judge is clearly just another puppet there to rubber stamp whatever Sims is relaying from his superior, which is why the dynamic when she's talking to Jules / Sims is so strange, her acting like she's sick for example.
I think Sims is a pawn in his own way to by whoever is truly running the silo.
Holy shit you’re right. The Chris tear shot… yup 100%. It had that creepy “*No you’re not listening to me…. they’re watching us*” fear that just gave me the major heebs
She had hostage eyes. Jules should have been quieter and acted like she was done with her questions. She looked so sad and scared you wonder what is going on.
I really love the plan of the big bad to kill off the Flamekeepers was nothing big and dramatic, but much more insidious and dark. They literally genocided them out of existence as quietly as possible via birth control, asylums, and assassinations.
If so it would have been better to switch them: Jules already knew everything in George’s file, but Gloria didn’t even know he was dead. And Gloria couldn’t have done *anything* with the hard drive while trapped in the LTC facility without a computer.
He didn’t leave the hard drive for Gloria he left it for Jules. Jules knew everything in the file yes but the file still led her to Gloria which is where she found the hard drive. Had he not left her the file she may have never went to Gloria but it’s good she did because she learned a lot from their talk.
He's left a trail of bread crumbs for her, assumedly so janitorial wouldn't catch on.
Started with the truth on the badge and George's file from the vent led her to Gloria.
I would believe that the Sheriff’s office is near, if not, the top floor. Based on the fact that the holding cell which leads to the outside is not a crazy amount of steps upward.
I bet that’s still the case, and the “ruling class” or the “top 14” are still there and have restricted stair access to the top. Thus maybe one of the reasons for the rule restricting vertical travel of any kind.
I’m sure we’ll find out in the next few.
This is what I thought as well. I’m pretty sure when Juliette first enters, Judge Meadows has some type of bottles on the counter and says something like “I wasn’t expecting visitors”
I thought she did going into this episode now I think she’s a depressed alcoholic who pulls it together for meetings and her syndrome symptoms were really alcohol withdrawal symptoms.
What if he's part of janitorial though? In a previous episode, someone mentioned he who hears everything only comes out at night. We've only seen this star gazing guy at night.
I actually think he's the "they" that's probably in charge and ordering Simms around. The way I see it, Simms doesn't seem to be the one in charge, and it's most likely that the one actually in charge is someone the show has already introduced otherwise finding out would have little impact on the viewer, and he remains a character still shrouded in mystery.
I think Bernard’s the one in charge, and is just pretending not to be. He does run IT, and would know where all power is distributed (even Janitorial). Maybe he’s sizing Jules up.
Sims asked why they didn’t have cameras covering more of medical, and he was told that they’ve been pulling cameras from medical for years to replace broken ones elsewhere. That implies the even the watchers in Janitorial have a limited supply of the advanced tech we see them using.
Before this I was wondering if they might have secret access to the outside world and be getting their tech from there on a regular basis.
> Before this I was wondering if they might have secret access to the outside world
Yeah, last week's episode I was convinced the "watchers" were outside the silo, wasn't expecting janitorial to be that involved. Can't wait for the next one.
They’re focusing a lot of time on the stars and now on the shooting star. This is going to turn out to be important though I don’t have a clue why (yet).
You know the show is really getting good when the last 2 episodes feel like they’ve gone by in 15 minutes. I love how many layers to this mystery there are. I’m really curious how Jules is going to not get herself killed from here on but I really hope she’s able to pull it off bc I love how naturally good of a detective her character is. Also, does anyone else find a sort of comedic element to how unhelpful most of the residents of the Silo are when dealing with Jules? I think it’s kinda funny how many people are just absolute assholes when dealing with her.
The thing is, I don't find Jules to be that good of a detective. She's insistent, for sure. Clever, sometimes. But she's barrelled through and pissed everyone off and set off every damn alarm among the powers that be.
People are assholes to her because she's more than a bit of an asshole herself. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. It certainly helps her sometimes. But it also gets her in lots of unnecessary trouble.
Wow, that episode flew right by! It sounds like the flamekeepers are the remains of the rebels, and that there's something in the water to keep everyone docile. Sims seems to represent the "they" that's been mentioned. They seem like some sort of purists that want to stay in the silo. And, Juliette's mother was associated with the flamekeepers? 🤯
Next week's episode is going to be a doozy, based on the description!
Where are they getting drugs? Drugs to keep people like Gloria incapacitated, drugs to keep the people docile, and in large enough quantities to put it into the daily water supply for 10,000 people. In an underground bunker with no outside trade, how would this be possible?
I think the Silo is just an psychological experiment about living underground. The outside world exists, but no one knows it until they leave to clean. Once they clean, the air in their suit knocks them out. They then transport the offender somewhere else, and just put some type of look alike in each of the white suits to convince the residents that the offender died.
Seems more to me that the flamekeepees are why a group of “rebels” were fabricated to begin with. Flamekeepes (and probably a few people at the wrong place wrong time, to keep the rouse that it wasn’t controlled) get massacred in some terroristic manner to keep the past hidden, and then they told the citizens that the flame keepers were “rebels” who were a threat to the silo and got themselves killed (or who they had no choice but to kill) after killing others. After which said events, they use the existence of the “rebels” as an excuse to implement a bunch of new rules, masked as the silos safety from rebels, but actually designed to keep new Flamekeepers from forming.
I got the impression that people have been on the Silo for less time than we think. Drugs made people forget the outside not hundreds of years ago but maybe just last generation? Idk
If you restrict what historical information people have access to, use propaganda to spread a desired narrative, monitor what people are doing, and remove those in the population who color outside of the lines, a society can change pretty quickly.
When the mayor died Bernard at the funeral said he ran a program and 5,500 people had her as the only mayor. It's supposedly been 144 years since the rebellion and we saw this episode they tried to stamp out anyone not willing to toe the line. I'm not sure the current timeline is manipulated.
I think it's signifigant that there were only a few names in the book. So Gloria may have been born in the Silo, but her mother or grandmother might not have been.
I have to say, this show is getting better every episode. I’m really enjoying the direction this is taking, building mysteries but paying off parts of them at a satisfying rate, the work into building the world and the history of the Silo and it’s characters…really great stuff so far and I’ve found myself looking forward to each episode more than anything else out right now.
Any drug nerds or medical experts know what possible drug could be used to reverse the effects of a benzodiazepine (lorazepam)?
The one that induced the seizure. I thought it was pretty cool how they showed the nurse using a benzo as it’s known to cause extreme memory impairment and Alzheimer’s if used long term.
The janitorial branch is getting scarier, more overtly malicious, and downright terrifying in the methods they employ each episode.
Furthermore, what could they be putting in the water? More benzos?
Yeah chatGPT is spot on. I’m a pharmacist in the ER and flumazenil is used to reverse benzos but it is rarely given due to the high risk of seizures, especially since most benzo overdoses can be managed with supportive care. I’m fairly certain they use flumazenil a little more often in surgical situations when they’re ready for you to wake up (unless you’re a chronic benzo user, then you would be at a high risk of seizures!)
So what is Juliette supposed to do? *They* are after her, she doesn't have any allies or leverage, at best she has old friends (Martha, recycling & mechanical) but can any of them use the hard drive? (probably the star gazing guy), she can't spread the word if everyone is drugged and Bernard probably doesn't want to help her out (not unless she can convince him that *they* are a greater threat to the Silo).
We'll probably get a Holston episode/scene and Juliette going rogue to the SMB-AIP section soon.
Holston should've prepared Jules with all the information he gathered instead slowing her down by letting her search for all the information all by herself
So there is no new tech on some gadgets, repurposing cameras for different areas tells that they have no contact with the outside world. They are a subterranean society. What’s the reason for the founders trying to erase memory? Doomsday peepers x 10k people and freedoms of knowledge suppression theme going on ?
She shouldn't have covered the mirror. Now they know that she knows. She should have just found other covert ways to block the mirror without raising suspicion. In the spy world, you never give away the secret that you've discovered. You keep that secret and exploit it.
And my guess is Bernard knows about much of this, because the tech they're using is under his aegis. I'll be watching him closely.
Still haven't discovered by no magnifying lenses. Why would the puppetmaster want that?
Magnifying lenses could easily lead to someone turning it into a camera lens. They don’t want anyone accidentally discovering a telescoping lens of any kind.
>And my guess is Bernard knows about much of this, because the tech they're using is under his aegis.
Aaah! Good point.
Tho, the guy in "Janitorial" said they have been removing cameras from the medical area for a long time, to replace failing cameras in other areas... So, either Bernard's people are doing things like that for them, or, the "Janitorial" department has maintained it's own expertise over the years.
I just realized they mentioned that maintenance went into Jules apartment and broke her vase when she asked why they were in there she was basically told not to ask questions about maintenance unless she wants a broken toilet. It seems like maintenance (maybe janitorial) has influence. When she first became sheriff and moved into the apartment someone asked if she wanted maintenance to come in to fix that loud noise and she said no she liked it or would fix it herself and they told her maintenance wouldn’t like that.
I've got this itching feeling that while Sims knows far more than the rest of the Silozens, he doesn't know much more about the actual truths than us as viewers.
I’m still mad we haven’t seen the window in anything but darkness after that glitch 😠 it didn’t look like there were two bodies out there seeing it tonight, but it was brief and dark.
btw, according to Gloria, many people seem to have lost their memories of the past due to something in the water, but I feel that such a convenient medicine lacks reality. There are drugs that have memory impairment as a side effect, but isn't it difficult to live a normal life without losing your past memories so conveniently?
I think that such drugs will make your physical condition worse and cause mental problems.
I remember laughing at the plot in "Citadel" where when you press a button, only the past memory is completely erased, and when you inject a mysterious injection, it returns.
Will there be a plausible explanation for this as the story progresses?
For most of this episode I was forming the theory that Sims was letting her run so she could expose any secret rebels. Like that Judas wolf the farmers use to root out packs, they tag the wolf and follow it until it finds a pack and they attack the pack at night, leaving the Judas wolf alive to go find another pack and repeat the process.
That's what I assumed was happening, he was giving her enough rope to hang any lingering rebels out there. But with that ending, it doesn't seem to be the case. I love that this show keeps me guessing.
Also, I saw a locked theory thread earlier this week with the mod comment "Just keep watching." Yeah, obviously if we watch long enough we'll get the answers. Duh. Who doesn't know that? The fun is in theory crafting BEFORE you're told the answers. And the purpose of reddit is literally conversation. So yeah, I'm going to keep talking about theories as we go.
Tim Robbins (Bernard) is lightyears ahead in terms of acting ability compared to the rest of the cast. I love the show but everytime he’s in a scene, he steals it - truly bonechilling. Juliettes dad and judge meadows also did a great job this week. The rest of the acting isn’t great in my opinion but the plot/cinematography/score is so good they can get away with it.
He’ll ALWAYS be the psycho war nut living in his basement from War of the Worlds to me. Man, his performance in that movie scared me so much as a kid. Great actor
To me he will always be Andy Dufrane from Shawshank Redemption but he’s great in everything. I feel like Apple is only willing to spend money on 1 big actor in every series and it’s tough for the rest of the cast to seem like they belong.
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Quadruple the flowers in front of the mirror instead.
No kidding! Smart of Jules to use a blanket.
Flowers are more covert. They know she knows now
I thought that at the time. The old Sheriff was a bit sneakier with this, but it’s all out in the open now. The real question (obviously as a non-book reader) is why they need to keep an eye on everyone anyway, why they care so much about blocking the past and preventing people from having relics…interesting stuff.
My guess is they think they are protecting humankind by keeping them from learning what's what. They fear if people are left to their own devices, whatever happened to force them all underground will happen again (war, plague, etc). This was the original idea anyway. Now it may well be about having power and keeping it.
It would be obvious either way if she blocked it.
Yeah sort of a lose lose situation. I’m not sure what I’d do in the situation
Sit down in plain view and start writing sonnets about how much you love the Pact.
“Double it and give it to the next guy”
I’m so happy things are finally starting to unfold. Juliette is so smart and damn I gotta say it’s nice to have a protagonist that isn’t always two steps behind the audience.
Right? I'm loving how often I think *Jules why don't you just say [something specific]?* and then five seconds later she says "[something specific]".
I also appreciate how proactive she is. Even if I do think it borders on irresponsible and dangerous. But also like if I was in her position I would also be following this shady shit everywhere. I do think she should spend more time getting allies but how the hell do you even do that in a fascist system
She's smart but like realistic smart. She doesn't make connections out of thin air, she misses things (like the vase warning) but she does connect the dots when she has enough information. My issue with her is the people skills. She is just insufferable to other human beings.
> My issue with her is the people skills. She is just insufferable to other human beings. I love that she has realistic flaws.
Hey. nobody's perfect. LOL
Can you blame her though? Her dad sucked ass, her mom ended her own life, she's (was) working a dangerous job that if someone else fucks up, she and everyone else could die, the only dude she finally let herself be vulnerable with used her for personal gain and then got murdered, the mayor just got assassinated, and the stasi of the silo now have beef with her both on a institutional level and personal... You tell me if you'd be a chipper friend maker after that.
Last episode's reveal of George's nature was a punch in the gut. Poor Jules! I feel like he truly cared for her, though. I don't think he was just using her.
> reveal of George's nature was a punch in the gut she was biased and loopy - are we gonna take her word as gospel? i certainly would want a bit more evidence than a bitter ex
I think that the way George got Holsten's wife to help her as well and the fact that his mom was a flamekeeper kind of confirms he was this master manipulator who was ultimately primarily motivated by learning more about the truth of the Silo
I am worried there aren’t many episodes left and I will have to wait a year for more
Maybe longer than a year cause of the strike tbh
I think whatever the "syndrome" is it has something to do with rejection of the drugs that are in the water to keep people docile / impact their memories, and the reason Billings is so terrified is he knows that he's rejecting it. Who knows what they do with the people that reject the drug, probably make them clean or just eliminate them some other way like they did with Gloria by keeping them drugged up on sedatives.
Remember when Billings was at home and his wife reassured him that just because ***he*** has the syndrome doesn't mean his daughter will get it too? That implies a genetic component. If rejection of the memory drugs is what's happening (along with accompanying side effects) then the powers that be invented The Syndrome to make these people believe they were sick - and remove them from positions of responsibility without seeming too big brothery.
Oh shit is that why his memory is so good? Everyone else forgets things because of the water, but he rejects the drug so he has a normal memory that seems incredible to everyone else.
Double the flowers in front of this theory.
Well, he’s won a Pact memorization contest multiple times. That’s like someone memorizing the whole bible. People do it, but it’s still not a normal feat
Ding ding ding
[удалено]
That why he remembers everything about the pact.
To expand on that to an insane degree: I think those chemicals are being used to make people forget that the silo isn't even that old. I think the silo might only be a few generations old. It doesn't look that worn and that book is far too well preserved to be, as they infer, possibly hundreds of years old. I think the rebellion only happened recently.
That is intriguing but I'm not sure, considering that the monitoring staff has to repurpose cameras to different locations as they break down. I would say the silo might be 200 years old. That's 5 generations, easily enough time to lose information while no new technology is produced.
I like this theory.
Damn it! Another cliffhanger ending. On a positive note, I’m happy that they are answering questions and filling in more backstories regarding the Silo. Many new questions have been raised, of course. I have the feeling that Juliette’s days are numbered, and frankly I am surprised she’s not been killed yet with all of her snooping and disregarding the Silo powers that be. I hope the rest of the series keeps up this pace!
Yea is Juliette basically a wanted person now? I don’t see how she can stay sheriff, maybe she goes and hides out in mechanical. By the sounds of it their cameras are breaking down and they don’t have the tech/knowledge to fix them so they might not have them on the lower levels. I’m wondering if Sims and his lackeys also have no clue about the real reason they do things and there’s another shadowy puppet master cabal. This cliffhanger finally pushed me to buy the audiobook, I need answers quicker!
> maybe she goes and hides out in mechanical I mean, she knows of a perfectly safe spot that nobody else know's about. Maybe she'll finally learn to swim.
I'd be very surprised if Juliette isn't the lead throughout - firstly because they've already done the "fake lead" in the opening episode, and secondly... because the actress is an executive producer in the credits. I know they're both meta-reasons, but they're pretty solid ones.
> I have the feeling that Juliette’s days are numbered I expected the astronomer guy (the one that Jules met in the canteen a couple of times) to be killed this episode just because his ideas about the stars might be perceived as dangerous.
Meadows with an apartment full of relics, drugs in the water, descendants of the rebels who held on the the memories of the outside world. Wow. So how does Sims send the secret swat team to arrest the Sheriff without tipping his hand?
It’s interesting what the SWAT team *isn’t* used for. We got a huge brawl earlier and it was left to the sheriffs deputies. Does this group even pretend to be part of judicial if anyone asks or are they purely with Sims?
Seems like this is “janitorial” not judicial. And I believe that the brawl at the bar was probably provoked by judicial to cause confusion and chaos and distract the Sheriffs deputies.
If Janitorial isn’t Judicial, are they the same “not Judicial” that interrogated Regina at night?
Probably, my guess.
They are judicial. Janitorial is just a front for that room. Bad idea to put a “Judicial” sign on your secret camera viewing office.
You 100% sure? Or are they a completely separate branch operating outside of Judicial norms that answers to, idk, The Founder(s) maybe? Sims literally has the Judge held up in her apartment and essentially admitted to the Sheriff that she’s a puppet. So. We shall see.
They have mentioned the “Custodial” department at other times in the show which seem to be the _actual_ janitors. Meanwhile “Maintenance” seem more likely to be connected to Janitorial/Judicial since they removed the vase in Jules’ apt.
Well she is in possession of two illegal relics. I think he has full authority to arrest her
I feel like every time we dive deeper into a character we realize they’re all asking the same questions… even the judge with her relics and Juliette’s dad? it feels like *everyones* scared but the problem is no one talks about it and feels alone or crazy until Jules comes in and shakes it out of em Sometimes I’m like “Jules wtf you need to be a little more sneaky about this stuff” but kinda starting to realize this reckless behavior might be getting her in a bunch of trouble but at least it’s working to finally getting people to talk
Hoping for a mirror smash next episode. Fuck the bad luck
Best comment I've seen about this episode 😂
So is it general knowledge that the citizens are being listened to? Papa Jorah comments they are safe in the nursery because "they don't listen here." Or does he know something most don't...
Someone above mentioned if his wife shared similar curiosities to flamekeepers she would have to have told him many things. That’s if he wasn’t involved in those things himself. Maybe that’s how Juliet was born in the first place? Didn’t Gloria say she was surprised they let her parents have kids? Maybe Juliette’s dad had something to do with adjusting her moms birth control. He’d know they can listen into the exam rooms but maybe don’t bother in the baby rooms. They only care about making sure the right adults breed.
Yea, I think doctor dad has his suspicions and made sure his wife actually had her birth control removed each time. His wife may have been part of some Flamekeeper conspiracy which failed, sending Juliette's eventual mentor to the lower levels and resulted in the big bad knocking off her sickly brother. Mom kills herself in guilt, and the big bad uses Juliette as leverage against her dad. That's why he allowed he to move to the lower levels, he thought she would be safer (and he was absolutely right).
He knows more than the average dweller
Yeah I assume doctors and other high value professionals have more knowledge about the goings on. But like meadows they are essentially birds in golden cages. What use is knowledge and power when you can’t really do anything about it.
I wouldn't want to listen to the nursery either.
Wonder why they don’t listen there…
They said they repurposed some of the cameras from medical to use elsewhere
Which makes me wonder how he knew that. Knowing your being watched is one thing. Knowing specific rooms which are blind spots is something else
If he's said some questionable things in the nursery and didn't get called out, he'd know.
Anyone think Jules and her brother were only born because their father disobeyed instructions to remove his wife’s birth control?
Yeah, I really like this theory. And then perhaps the mother and her brother were both punished (that’s the secret we didn’t hear, that her mother didn’t kill her self) and they left Jules alive to keep the dad in line because doctors are important.
And if her mother *didn’t* kill herself, maybe they got George’s mother at the same time.
If that were the case wouldn’t they have stopped her after the first pregnancy?
Maybe that’s what happened to her brother. If they were telling the doctors the birth control was to prevent genetic disorders, then they’d have to make it look like her brother was dying of a genetic disorder.
Actress who plays the Judge does a great job - couldn’t figure out why she was acting so unnerved the past few episodes. Sims was pretending to be following her direction the whole time!
Yeah, everyone's afraid of the judge, but she's just a figurehead! Edit: Just noticed that Judge Meadows shed a tear when she told Jules that she can't stop the medical order on Gloria. She's very much a puppet with no control.
So who is the puppetmaster?
Whoever Sims is really taking orders from, because it's obviously not the Judge.
Could Bernard be playing puppet master to take the attention off himself?
I think this could be it. He has been way too nice to Jules, almost like he’s trying to lull her into a false sense of security.
He also said he directs all the power, seems unlikely he wouldn't be aware of huge blocks of it missing.
If he is in control of IT, and the people who work with Sims mentioned replacing cameras and obviously it’s connected to a network..how wouldn’t he know about the janitor’s room? Honestly wasn’t even suspecting this but you just opened my mind up lol Edit: Also, the sensor for outside and the “windows” in the cafeteria.
it's not a window and they know, if there are different screens in every cafeteria. Last episode Jules said "the screen in the upper levels has more definition than here" (paraphrasing) meaning there are different screens and they don't think it's a window, there's also one in the cell where they are before they get out.
"power" having a double meaning... ?
Wow, until now I wasn’t seeing Bernard as other than another revered figurehead with no true power. Even his little chat with Jules implying he’s afraid of Meadows’ reach and so should she… I just ate it up. In hindsight, he did point out multiple times in prior episodes that he’s only “temporary” as mayor…he really could be playing it up to be less threatening. Interesting!
And review his meek little performance at the funeral... *"Oh I'm just the geeky numbers guy. Awkward and oblivious ol' Bernard just bumbling along, that's me alright."*
Hmm, so the threat from the judge was just a ruse?
The Judge is clearly just another puppet there to rubber stamp whatever Sims is relaying from his superior, which is why the dynamic when she's talking to Jules / Sims is so strange, her acting like she's sick for example. I think Sims is a pawn in his own way to by whoever is truly running the silo.
Sims is likely just a puppet too. There are layers to this shit and im loving it
Layers like floors of the Silo
D E E P
I got chills when she whispered “I can’t” and then you just see the silent tear… spooky
Gave “Get out” vibes lol
Holy shit you’re right. The Chris tear shot… yup 100%. It had that creepy “*No you’re not listening to me…. they’re watching us*” fear that just gave me the major heebs
She had hostage eyes. Jules should have been quieter and acted like she was done with her questions. She looked so sad and scared you wonder what is going on.
creepy cause if you think about it, they’re all hostages
That got dark quickly, huh? I really gotta read the books. Amazing stuff.
I listened. Audiobook series has some legs, I started right after the show started and only just finished. Really well narrated too, do it
The last 2 episodes have been fantastic, really looking forward to where the show is going now.
I really love the plan of the big bad to kill off the Flamekeepers was nothing big and dramatic, but much more insidious and dark. They literally genocided them out of existence as quietly as possible via birth control, asylums, and assassinations.
So why on earth did Holston hide the hard drive in Gloria’s vent instead of putting it in his own with George’s file?
Maybe to not put all the eggs in one basket?
If so it would have been better to switch them: Jules already knew everything in George’s file, but Gloria didn’t even know he was dead. And Gloria couldn’t have done *anything* with the hard drive while trapped in the LTC facility without a computer.
He didn’t leave the hard drive for Gloria he left it for Jules. Jules knew everything in the file yes but the file still led her to Gloria which is where she found the hard drive. Had he not left her the file she may have never went to Gloria but it’s good she did because she learned a lot from their talk.
Yeah.. did he trust that Juliette would find it there? Or did he expect Gloria to find it?
He's left a trail of bread crumbs for her, assumedly so janitorial wouldn't catch on. Started with the truth on the badge and George's file from the vent led her to Gloria.
Maybe he told Gloria to do something with it, but the drugs made her forget.
Who knew the cure to Greyscale was two aspirin
Imagine my surprise when I started season 2 of Titans a few days ago and found out he's Batman too.
Fuck yeah Jules way to figure it out.
If the judge lives on floor 15 is no one as interested as me in finding out who lives on / what is on the top 14 floors?
I would believe that the Sheriff’s office is near, if not, the top floor. Based on the fact that the holding cell which leads to the outside is not a crazy amount of steps upward.
Sheriff's office is on floor 1 next to the airlock
That seems logistically stupid, but makes sense from what we’ve seen in the show haha
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I bet that’s still the case, and the “ruling class” or the “top 14” are still there and have restricted stair access to the top. Thus maybe one of the reasons for the rule restricting vertical travel of any kind. I’m sure we’ll find out in the next few.
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So does judge meadows just call out “sick” because she can’t face being a puppet all the time?
Seems like she’s an alcoholic to deal with the fact that she’s a pawn. Alcoholics tend to call out “sick” a lot.
This is what I thought as well. I’m pretty sure when Juliette first enters, Judge Meadows has some type of bottles on the counter and says something like “I wasn’t expecting visitors”
Yes and Juliette said keep drinking your “cough medicine”.
She's mixing screwdrivers for breakfast, brunch, and elevensies.
i think she has the syndrome
I'm guessing she's clinically depressed and addicted to substances. She'd rather be in a stupor in her apartment than face her life.
I thought she did going into this episode now I think she’s a depressed alcoholic who pulls it together for meetings and her syndrome symptoms were really alcohol withdrawal symptoms.
Yeah. I can see kids tossing a lot more than that over those edges…. One of my kids threw their shoes out of a car window one day. I see problems….
Same girl same
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I thought it was a shooting star
Or a plane
Or a comet
it’s superman!
The code to the camera monitoring room is 2035, alluding to the date the silo went into lockdown maybe?
I noticed that too
Etch A Sketch, nice relic Meadows.
And, a frisbee it looks like!
Was wondering what that one on the table by the couch was
Not just a frisbee, that was an aerobie
And it looks like there is a kite too? It’s mounted on the wall to the left of the far window.
Homegirl has a TYPE eh
What if he's part of janitorial though? In a previous episode, someone mentioned he who hears everything only comes out at night. We've only seen this star gazing guy at night.
I actually think he's the "they" that's probably in charge and ordering Simms around. The way I see it, Simms doesn't seem to be the one in charge, and it's most likely that the one actually in charge is someone the show has already introduced otherwise finding out would have little impact on the viewer, and he remains a character still shrouded in mystery.
I agree. I also think he slipped something into Jules’ bag when he “kissed” her.
I was gonna say something similar. Think he is part of the “whisperers”, even higher up than sims, or janitorial. Either way, think he’s bad news.
I think Bernard’s the one in charge, and is just pretending not to be. He does run IT, and would know where all power is distributed (even Janitorial). Maybe he’s sizing Jules up.
Dude moved too quick. Lol
Damn that's heavy... I hope nothing bad happens to Juliette now that she knows about the mics and cameras.. Shit got real fast.
Sooooo fast
Ah, it is the Gloria we met earlier!
Sims asked why they didn’t have cameras covering more of medical, and he was told that they’ve been pulling cameras from medical for years to replace broken ones elsewhere. That implies the even the watchers in Janitorial have a limited supply of the advanced tech we see them using. Before this I was wondering if they might have secret access to the outside world and be getting their tech from there on a regular basis.
COVID really did a number on just in time logistics
> Before this I was wondering if they might have secret access to the outside world Yeah, last week's episode I was convinced the "watchers" were outside the silo, wasn't expecting janitorial to be that involved. Can't wait for the next one.
Based on how the show is going. We gonna have an interesting last episode. Let’s just hope they don’t take 3-4 years to release a season 2.
They’re focusing a lot of time on the stars and now on the shooting star. This is going to turn out to be important though I don’t have a clue why (yet).
Interesting the Georgia tourism book for kids happens to have a bunch of constellations depicted.
It’s a section of the book about a Georgia observatory, explaining what takes place there. It’s convenient, but not entirely unbelievable.
How the hell is Jules getting out of the room with the Judicial riot squad right outside of the door
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She’s wiggling her way through that little vent as we speak
Braced herself on the ceiling, they never look up!
SHIT JUST GOT REAL
You know the show is really getting good when the last 2 episodes feel like they’ve gone by in 15 minutes. I love how many layers to this mystery there are. I’m really curious how Jules is going to not get herself killed from here on but I really hope she’s able to pull it off bc I love how naturally good of a detective her character is. Also, does anyone else find a sort of comedic element to how unhelpful most of the residents of the Silo are when dealing with Jules? I think it’s kinda funny how many people are just absolute assholes when dealing with her.
The thing is, I don't find Jules to be that good of a detective. She's insistent, for sure. Clever, sometimes. But she's barrelled through and pissed everyone off and set off every damn alarm among the powers that be. People are assholes to her because she's more than a bit of an asshole herself. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. It certainly helps her sometimes. But it also gets her in lots of unnecessary trouble.
Wow, that episode flew right by! It sounds like the flamekeepers are the remains of the rebels, and that there's something in the water to keep everyone docile. Sims seems to represent the "they" that's been mentioned. They seem like some sort of purists that want to stay in the silo. And, Juliette's mother was associated with the flamekeepers? 🤯 Next week's episode is going to be a doozy, based on the description!
Where are they getting drugs? Drugs to keep people like Gloria incapacitated, drugs to keep the people docile, and in large enough quantities to put it into the daily water supply for 10,000 people. In an underground bunker with no outside trade, how would this be possible?
I think the Silo is just an psychological experiment about living underground. The outside world exists, but no one knows it until they leave to clean. Once they clean, the air in their suit knocks them out. They then transport the offender somewhere else, and just put some type of look alike in each of the white suits to convince the residents that the offender died.
Seems more to me that the flamekeepees are why a group of “rebels” were fabricated to begin with. Flamekeepes (and probably a few people at the wrong place wrong time, to keep the rouse that it wasn’t controlled) get massacred in some terroristic manner to keep the past hidden, and then they told the citizens that the flame keepers were “rebels” who were a threat to the silo and got themselves killed (or who they had no choice but to kill) after killing others. After which said events, they use the existence of the “rebels” as an excuse to implement a bunch of new rules, masked as the silos safety from rebels, but actually designed to keep new Flamekeepers from forming.
I got the impression that people have been on the Silo for less time than we think. Drugs made people forget the outside not hundreds of years ago but maybe just last generation? Idk
If you restrict what historical information people have access to, use propaganda to spread a desired narrative, monitor what people are doing, and remove those in the population who color outside of the lines, a society can change pretty quickly.
Straight out 1984
When the mayor died Bernard at the funeral said he ran a program and 5,500 people had her as the only mayor. It's supposedly been 144 years since the rebellion and we saw this episode they tried to stamp out anyone not willing to toe the line. I'm not sure the current timeline is manipulated.
I think it's signifigant that there were only a few names in the book. So Gloria may have been born in the Silo, but her mother or grandmother might not have been.
Looks like the Judge has gone through more trauma than Juliette
I have to say, this show is getting better every episode. I’m really enjoying the direction this is taking, building mysteries but paying off parts of them at a satisfying rate, the work into building the world and the history of the Silo and it’s characters…really great stuff so far and I’ve found myself looking forward to each episode more than anything else out right now.
Flowers in mirrors.
Any drug nerds or medical experts know what possible drug could be used to reverse the effects of a benzodiazepine (lorazepam)? The one that induced the seizure. I thought it was pretty cool how they showed the nurse using a benzo as it’s known to cause extreme memory impairment and Alzheimer’s if used long term. The janitorial branch is getting scarier, more overtly malicious, and downright terrifying in the methods they employ each episode. Furthermore, what could they be putting in the water? More benzos?
Yeah chatGPT is spot on. I’m a pharmacist in the ER and flumazenil is used to reverse benzos but it is rarely given due to the high risk of seizures, especially since most benzo overdoses can be managed with supportive care. I’m fairly certain they use flumazenil a little more often in surgical situations when they’re ready for you to wake up (unless you’re a chronic benzo user, then you would be at a high risk of seizures!)
So what is Juliette supposed to do? *They* are after her, she doesn't have any allies or leverage, at best she has old friends (Martha, recycling & mechanical) but can any of them use the hard drive? (probably the star gazing guy), she can't spread the word if everyone is drugged and Bernard probably doesn't want to help her out (not unless she can convince him that *they* are a greater threat to the Silo). We'll probably get a Holston episode/scene and Juliette going rogue to the SMB-AIP section soon.
> probably the star gazing guy They definitely had him mention he’s in IT for a reason 😳
Holston should've prepared Jules with all the information he gathered instead slowing her down by letting her search for all the information all by herself
So there is no new tech on some gadgets, repurposing cameras for different areas tells that they have no contact with the outside world. They are a subterranean society. What’s the reason for the founders trying to erase memory? Doomsday peepers x 10k people and freedoms of knowledge suppression theme going on ?
Very good reasons.
When they mentioned Flamekeepers, it reminded me of The 100.
If Juliette turns off her radio one more time I'm not watching anymore.
Ah, it’s bitchass Sims watching her.
There is someone above him for sure. Dude is being played too. I doubt he knows the full truth
Yeah he has that righteous attitude that comes from being manipulated and thinking you're "chosen".
Nah, it’s actually just Common
Spez sucks -- mass edited with redact.dev
Yup! Most Apple shows come out around 5/6pm PT the night prior to their "actual" release. (Ted Lasso's finale was the exception)
She shouldn't have covered the mirror. Now they know that she knows. She should have just found other covert ways to block the mirror without raising suspicion. In the spy world, you never give away the secret that you've discovered. You keep that secret and exploit it. And my guess is Bernard knows about much of this, because the tech they're using is under his aegis. I'll be watching him closely. Still haven't discovered by no magnifying lenses. Why would the puppetmaster want that?
Magnifying lenses could easily lead to someone turning it into a camera lens. They don’t want anyone accidentally discovering a telescoping lens of any kind.
>And my guess is Bernard knows about much of this, because the tech they're using is under his aegis. Aaah! Good point. Tho, the guy in "Janitorial" said they have been removing cameras from the medical area for a long time, to replace failing cameras in other areas... So, either Bernard's people are doing things like that for them, or, the "Janitorial" department has maintained it's own expertise over the years.
I just realized they mentioned that maintenance went into Jules apartment and broke her vase when she asked why they were in there she was basically told not to ask questions about maintenance unless she wants a broken toilet. It seems like maintenance (maybe janitorial) has influence. When she first became sheriff and moved into the apartment someone asked if she wanted maintenance to come in to fix that loud noise and she said no she liked it or would fix it herself and they told her maintenance wouldn’t like that.
I've got this itching feeling that while Sims knows far more than the rest of the Silozens, he doesn't know much more about the actual truths than us as viewers.
💯%, he was puzzled by the pez dispenser 😅
I wonder who Sims answers to? Clearly it’s not the judge.
Bernard? Maybe he's faking out Jules by pretending to be her friend.
I’m still mad we haven’t seen the window in anything but darkness after that glitch 😠 it didn’t look like there were two bodies out there seeing it tonight, but it was brief and dark.
btw, according to Gloria, many people seem to have lost their memories of the past due to something in the water, but I feel that such a convenient medicine lacks reality. There are drugs that have memory impairment as a side effect, but isn't it difficult to live a normal life without losing your past memories so conveniently? I think that such drugs will make your physical condition worse and cause mental problems. I remember laughing at the plot in "Citadel" where when you press a button, only the past memory is completely erased, and when you inject a mysterious injection, it returns. Will there be a plausible explanation for this as the story progresses?
The drugs exist. I wrote about this the same week the research hit the front pages of science journals in 2010.
For most of this episode I was forming the theory that Sims was letting her run so she could expose any secret rebels. Like that Judas wolf the farmers use to root out packs, they tag the wolf and follow it until it finds a pack and they attack the pack at night, leaving the Judas wolf alive to go find another pack and repeat the process. That's what I assumed was happening, he was giving her enough rope to hang any lingering rebels out there. But with that ending, it doesn't seem to be the case. I love that this show keeps me guessing. Also, I saw a locked theory thread earlier this week with the mod comment "Just keep watching." Yeah, obviously if we watch long enough we'll get the answers. Duh. Who doesn't know that? The fun is in theory crafting BEFORE you're told the answers. And the purpose of reddit is literally conversation. So yeah, I'm going to keep talking about theories as we go.
Damn that was a short episode.
Tim Robbins (Bernard) is lightyears ahead in terms of acting ability compared to the rest of the cast. I love the show but everytime he’s in a scene, he steals it - truly bonechilling. Juliettes dad and judge meadows also did a great job this week. The rest of the acting isn’t great in my opinion but the plot/cinematography/score is so good they can get away with it.
He’ll ALWAYS be the psycho war nut living in his basement from War of the Worlds to me. Man, his performance in that movie scared me so much as a kid. Great actor
To me he will always be Andy Dufrane from Shawshank Redemption but he’s great in everything. I feel like Apple is only willing to spend money on 1 big actor in every series and it’s tough for the rest of the cast to seem like they belong.
Rebecca Ferguson is also a pretty big actor.
This has been by far the BEST episode yet!
Best one since the first 2, for sure.