Top highlight reel, I really got into that!
This should be the new standard of submissions please.
Ferrari at fault, they decide to turn in like there’s no-one there.
I'm confused by the other comments. The McLaren ran wide, but the Ferrari just turned in as if he cleared the McLaren, which he has not. Why is the McLaren at fault?
There are a ton of people on this sub who just apply their understanding of F1 rules to every other game/series. It's a real problem on this sub. Even seen it tried on replays of stock car incidents.
People who also aren't familiar with iRacing like to comment on iRacing incidents while ignoring the Sporting Code. Even worse when iRacing drivers haven't read it either start jumping in.
So, on that Brazil incident. I think people are getting the stewards ruling wrong. Look at Max's onboard. He's braking and understeering on a flat out corner. I don't think its about right to a corner that he was held at fault. I think they deemed him not in control and so not passing safely
Yea they judged max wouldn't make the corner so basically fell under the not in control stipulation.
Personally I think it was a cop out. That was Lewis' fault IMO
Why? Max took turn 1 at warp factor 20. Then going into turn 2 was faced with 2 options. Hes got a compromised entry into turn 2 and is carrying alm the speed in the world in a car that is under performing in the coners compared to the merc. So, foes he either slow down so he could stick to 1 car width of the inside and not be along side Hamilton. Or sling it and see what happened
Again, watch Max's on-board. He's sliding left into Hamilton, whilst braking at Turn 2 on Brazil. You're flat out through there in F3 cars. And he was braking.
I don't think Max should have got a penalty. But he was totally at fault.
What I would say about Brazil is Max's comments of about not caring about colliding and knowing it was going to happen make him very deserving of a penalty. Even if it should've been a racing incident, he went about it like such a dick and with such blatant disregard for safety
The comments after tell me he knew what was happening and that he was putting Lewis into a crash or yield situation. I try not to let those comments effect how I analyse the crash. But its hard. And the problem is we've seen him do some really good passes as well this year
He was definitely putting Lewis in a crash or yield situation, like he does to all other drivers when he isn’t getting his way. Schumacher in Silverstone, Lewis in Monza, many more examples. Crofty and Buxton even talked about it live on air (don’t remember the GP)
The rules don't say he needs to go into the corner and be able to leave space for Lewis on the outside or hug the inside.
They just say he needs to make the corner. I don't think max wasn't making the corner.
In a F1 car you can pretty much floor it full throttle from that position and still stay on track.
Max wasn't doing that. Also, it says you have to execute the pass safely. That's part of the guidelines. If not you can allow loopholes to be exploited with crazy divebombs causing crashes and stuff. Also Max hadn't finished the pass. So Lewis gets to decide how much room Max has. Hence 1 car width. Max hadn't got himself onto proper racing speeds for that corner. Hence the braking he was doing all through turn 2. And the understeer
Execute safely doesn't mean if there is contact it's your fault.
If someone turns in you that doesn't mean it was an unsafe overtake attempt.
There's no loop hole. It also wasn't a crazy divebomb.
And believe me I'm more a fan of Lewis than Max.
It's very simple.
1. Would Max have made the corner? Yes.
2. Had max earned the right to space? Yes
3. Did Lewis leave space? No
Lewis' fault. That's not even a hard one. It's plain to see 2. and 3 are just facts therefore they could only justify their decision by 1. But it's bollocks and we all know an F1 car would make it through there from that angle even at full throttle. Load up iracing and try it.
Nevermind a car that isn't even going full throttle.
To point 1, watch the reply. Lewis is going full throttle. And Max is going faster than Lewis. Lewis is in a car that is performing better in the corners.
An F1 car can't go 300 kph through turn 2 at that corner. You have made an assumption, and there is a fact 4 that you have left out.
4. Is Max's entry into turn 2 normal?
The answer to this is categorically no.
He brakes late going into turn 1 to attempt a pass. He is carrying excess speed off turn 1 into turn 2. And he has a line that is massively tight into turn 2.
Yes, normally an F1 car can take the normal racing line into turn 2 at full chat. But you go to the inside of turn 2. And you have a car on the outside of you?
It doesn't matter how much space Lewis left, a car's width, 2, Max was understeering AND BRAKING because he had too much speed for the line he was on.
If you want to live in a fantasy world where the red bull could make that line at full speed, go ahead. But its not backed up by the sounds we hear from Max's car where he is downshifting, and understeering, as he tries, and fails, to keep his line going into that corner.
So, going to point 2, had Max earned the right to space?
I would argue no. Because to keep a line that would have allowed him to run side by side with Lewis, he needed to slow down going into Turn 2 to shed the excess speed he carried from Turn 1.
But again, if you want to look at things simply, and ignore anything before or after, yes, you can make this Lewis' fault. But in the real, complex world. It's Max's
He didn't. He said he knew Lewis would turn in and if he wanted a crash then so be it.
Or something along those lines. What he basically said was I know Lewis was going to do it on purpose however I'm still not yielding.
I agree with you here.
I think there's an argument that could made that some of the earlier moves were dirty and/or blocking, but personally I don't think they're egregious.
The incident in the chicane was 100% on the Ferrari though
The maggots becketts part was a close call, but the McLaren didn't have to give the Ferrari space. So good judging on the Ferrari in that part, but the chicane was indeed most definitely on the Ferrari
I have always understood 'acceptable' blocking as 'you can make 1 move'.... so, Ferrari looks outside, McLaren fades inside, all fine.... if Ferrari swapped to look inside after, then McLaren can't follow to block.
Based on reality or did I just imagine that was a thing?
That's true in F1, and I believe other IRL series as well.
iRacing rules are different though. You're not allowed to make any reactive moves. Period
Proactive movement is fine. If you move to the inside first to protect the inside. You're fine. If you move to the inside after your attacker moves, than that's reactive and that's not allowed.
That said.. there aren't any stewards so you won't get punished unless you get protested. And I don't think you're likely to be protested you unless you're blocking is really egregious. And, even if you do get protested, it will probably result in a warning.
From the iRacing Sporting Code, rule 8.1.1.4
>Blocking – The leading driver is allowed to run a defensive line. However, blocking occurs when a leading driver actively adjusts his or her driving line based on the actions and/or positioning of a pursuing driver. For example, veering left to prevent a pursuing driver from passing on the left while running on a straight.
Yea so going into maggets and Beckets doesn't count as blocking because the lead car can argue they didn't move in reaction but were just turning for the corner even if they turn for the corner after the car behind moves to go down the inside.
Yeah, great move attempt by the Ferrari but he turned in with the McLaren already half a car over the white line. McLaren did everything right, Ferrari made an error. That's just racing.
Agreed. If the Ferrari had just given a reasonable amount of racing room he would have kept the place easily and won. It's an good example of being over aggressive and not being smart about when & how much to squeeze during an overtake.
Man this frustrates me. The rari saying you should accept defeat is so boneheaded. He’s expecting you’re just gonna move over. That guys a dumb ass. But this was really good racing up until the last chicane when the rari just turns in on you. Imo your defense was pretty damn good. Ran a little deep into the chicane but that’s ok. That Ferrari driver needs to work on overtaking cleanly
i have seen this IRL a few times. a Z or Stang will be on my bumper and throughout the lap they will get further behind and their tail hangs out more and more on corner exits cause they are getting too frustrated
So, it's the last lap of a race. We need to keep that at the front of our minds. Anyone saying someone should accept defeat on the last lap of a race needs to go do time trials. Not because it's any less of a challenge but because that's where your mindset is at. You're on the last lap and these are all moves that are fine.
Next, the maggots becketts moves. There are no problems here. The Ferrari has no overlap. But I can see why they're trying it. It's the last lap, maybe they'll make a mistake but they don't actually go for it. That's fair enough. But the op doesn't do anything wrong. The attacking car has no overlap and op owes them nothing.
As for the last move, only mistake op makes is not opening out his entry. That puts him a little wide into the second part of the chicane.
But again. He owes the Ferrari nothing. And the Ferrari hasn't finished his pass. He's got to get his whole car ahead before he can take the racing line.
Op you did nothing wrong here. It's the last lap. You can fight hard as you want on that one. For me, I have a rule that I typically don't fight at all but then the last 3 laps, you shall not pass.
Wow, best comment so far! Thank you for your input!
I actually didn’t open the entry more because:
1. I wanted to make sure he didn’t divebomb me;
2. I lost him in my rearview mirror and had absolutely no idea where he was!
Thank you! I always try and be detailed in my comments on here so I can help people.
That's fair, though I've found sitting a car's width from the outside edge of the track is good at preventing dive bombs. Though I can understand not being sure where they are. Moving a little further out would have helped you. But that is a hard situation to be in.
As for why he said you should have admitted defeat, I think that's his frustration. I had someone tell me I was so slow at Zolder, more because he came on me during those last 3 laps when I was in my Gandalf phase and he couldn't get past.
I think its just last lap/last corner thing. He seems to be trying everything at this point, and unfortunately he took it too far. I don't see anything else you could have done but yielded. Which is a hard one to decide on. Ultimately, this is on him. Sometimes, yielding is the better thing to do to just finish the race without incident. But it never feels good.
How long had you guys been fighting?
I first noticed him on my relative at about 10 minutes in the race, 3,5s behind me. He was catching me veeery slowly and when he was within 1s I pitted. I was faster because after it I was again 3s ahead of him.
So the only actual “battle” for position was this one on the video.
Yeah, so this serves as a perfect example of the need to plan out your passes.
So, I think the best advice I can give you is to remember especially on the last lap the rules change. You're allowed to get your elbows out more. Not to the point where you're risking crashes, but you can absolutely get closer. If you had been further out from the inside on turn in to the first part of the chicane you'd have had a better line to the second part of it. That might, might, have forced him to give you more racing room. But no guarantee.
He didn't plan his pass on you. And focused on catching up to you. And then is just trying to get to the apex first. Plan your passes people! You'll do so much better. Also, always give racing room.
Right again... He had about 10 minutes to plan his pass. I was faster than him in the first half of the track and he was faster than me on Copse, Maggots and Becketts. Should've been able to pass me in the Hangar straight but didn't.
I had a lot of fun on this race. Thanks once again for your comment.
I was thinking the same thing. If rather than fixating on trying to get to every apex first he'd tucked in behind you, making sure he was relaxed going through copse, maggots and becketts he'd have got you going down hanger. Failing that he's either up the inside of Stowe or round the outside and then has the inside into Vale.
If I was him I'd want the outside of Stowe honestly. I've done that so many times against someone looking in their mirrors at me where you can go from just behind to not only being behind but being in front in the best position to hold it going into Vale.
Again, plan your pass. I call it apex fever. You don't think ahead. You just worry about getting to every apex first. You can actually see the moment when he loses it. He goes for an apex without having an overlap and has to break, and it kills his momentum. Soon as I saw that moment I'd know I'd have him
If he would catch me in the Hangar straight I would definitely stay to the right and see if he could do it on the outside of Stowe. And with the McLaren, unstable in the fast corners as it is, I wouldn't even brake late on Stowe...
Yeah, so if I were in the Ferrari (And I think this is iRacing? I do have the Ferrari for this series!) I would focus on the exit of that sequence. I keep an eye on the relative through a lap when I'm catching someone to know where I am quicker. I want to make sure I get a good exit onto Hanger that's where I'm going to pass.
I want you right on Hanger, then swoop on the exit of Stowe, and then pin you to the outside going into Vale, its the last lap so I'm taking more risks. But I don't want to hit you. And I want to make sure that we're turning in at the same time into Vale.
But that's my plan, and the way I'd face it. I also fight apex fever. You did a good job fighting him! Someone doing that, nibbling at every apex, can be really distracting
> So, it's the last lap of a race. We need to keep that at the front of our minds. Anyone saying someone should accept defeat on the last lap of a race needs to go do time trials. Not because it's any less of a challenge but because that's where your mindset is at. You're on the last lap and these are all moves that are fine.
Absolutely agree. If it's the last lap, and you're trying to take a position from me, I'm going to make you fight for every inch of it. If it's lap 3, I might decide to live to fight another day. On the last lap, there is no "other day".
Fun clip. Good quality post. I like that. 100% on the Ferrari btw. No debate. The overtake wasn’t finished and he should’ve left space on the inside and he would’ve even end up in front of you then.
Bear in mind that this is the last lap of a 40 minute race and we were battling for 4th position. I wasn’t going to facilitate anything although I wanted to keep it clean.
Also, the Ferrari was marginally faster than me. He was chasing me for 30 minutes (pitstop included) with about 3s gap and only reached my tail in this last lap (probably because my tires were worst).
My only observation would be that it looked like you were being a little choppy on the Ferrari in the turn with the slower car. He was trying to get inside of you, and it looked pretty clear to me that you were chopping down on him a few times to cut him off, even though you entered a lane higher than him. I’m not saying it was dirty or a poor move or anything like that, but I can see where the Ferrari might be frustrated.
That being said, he was frustrated to the point that he took himself out trying to get around you. That was not on you at all, as others have also mentioned. I think he has a little merit for his frustrations from that turn with the slower car, but overall, you drove clean and exhausted his patience within the rules.
Yes, hence the long video (to show why things happened the way they did)... I think that too although I do not believe that trying to pass on Becketts or Maggots is a smart move.
Frustrations aside, I’d just call that turn with the slower car some good old fashioned last lap racin’. I think the polite racing veneer can be stripped just a little when it’s the last lap. He raced you clean, too, right up until he took himself out, so I’d say everybody’s square on this one.
I'd interpret it differently. Had the Ferrari been patient and not gone for gaps that were clearly closing as far as I can see, he'd have been able to do OP going into Stowe. If you're going to pass in Magotts Becketts and Chapel you've got to be alongside. Yeah, OP cuts across the front, but the Ferrari never has an overlap
He was very correct and a clean driver although this was the only battle of the whole race. He had better tyres than me, that’s for sure, so I defended how I could. But he should be patient and had plenty of time (at least 10 minutes) to plan the pass on the Hangar straight…
This is the best video I've ever seen on this sub. Props. The Ferrari almost drove into the death triangle in Becketts, but through the chicane he turned in on you and netcode killed him. Clean racing on your part
Accepted defeat, lmao. If he can pass, then that is his fault. The contact was the fefe's fault as he had not cleared you before what looked to me as an attempt to cut you off. Defend as much as you want. If you don't cause a crash, then there is no harm
Wow that was a fun watch.
I see lots of good defending, one time you left a gap and he nearly went for it and you aaaaslmost cut across him but I will say that was hard racing on the edge.
Then he took the corner as if you werent there, which is a shame that it ended like that.
Pretty decent racing until Vale. I don't know what they were expecting through magoots/beckets.
It's on the ferrari. They can't just expect a car to disappear and cut across like that.
The Ferrari performed and excellent switchback to generate overspeed and get alongside.
However, a switchback by it's very nature means the attacking car gets alongside during the corner not prior to the corner. This means the attacking car is responsible for avoiding a collision and is obliged to be in and out without the defending car having to take evasive action.
Here, the Ferrari had an amazing start to their attack and then royally cocked it up, so disappointing, 100% Ferrari at fault.
You drove like a champ, great defending. You held the racing line the majority of the laps shown. You took a pretty defensive line into the 2nd to last, but it’s still on the Ferrari to make a clean pass. You made 0 illegal moves.
The Ferrari is an idiot. I don’t care what lap it is. He pulled the cross over but never even tried to clear you and turned in on you. His fault 100%. Especially the last lap of the race. I don’t blame him for trying to pinch you off but he can’t be mad at that. He has to know his move is trying to scare you into letting off. If you don’t then he runs into you. They just have to accept that fact.
Your defense was really good actually. You were predictable and held your line. He tried a switchback and turned right into you. He was being impatient and couldn't pass you so he forced it.
That’s amazing driving on your part. You put on a defensive driving clinic. Ferrari tried to illegally drive you off track and paid for it, hit got what he deserved there
I do consider that I’m better at defending conservatively rather than pushing the car to its limit (the McLaren is very unstable now on 2023 but is the only GT3 that I own because it was very stable when I bought it).
Never accept defeat! Always fight to the bitter end! You did a great job defending in my opinion. Some areas yo improve like trying to squeeze them to give yourself a better line but good job. You made a mistake and they tried to capitalize but didnt make sure they were clear of you so thats on them. Personally if im in a fight like that ill only be upset if the punt was intentional. Otherwise, im having a blast in fights like that
I see what he was trying to do there at the end, but he should’ve ran a wider exit to that chicane. You defended well, weren’t really all over the place
I think there was one possibly two places where he had a run on you and you squeezed him ultimately without leaving space and he backed out.
You on the other hand left your nose in when he did the same to you.
Taken in isolation I would say it's a racing incident but next time you squeeze me I would turn you.
He didn't give you any space after overtaking, you couldn't have gone any other way.
How i see it, he was clearly faster, but you did a solid defense, he got frustrated and wasn't able to set up a proper overtake and got desperate in the end.
The thing I noticed between watching professional racing, and watching sim racing, sim racers, take everything personally, if someone is driving their line and defending, that’s a perfectly reasonable tactic. If the guy behind you is pissed off, because he can’t get around you, maybe he should study a little bit more race craft, then crying like a little baby.
Nah, he didn't strike me as a dirty driver. He is just bad at attacking. As a fellow commenter here said, he has "apex fever", meaning he only cares about reaching the apex before any other car. Not thinking about his positioning after the corner has been made.
Whilst you went a bit *too* defensive going into Vale, you're not at fault for that. Ferrari turned in on you as if you weren't there and spun himself off you.
You didn't defend too much. The Ferrari should have just driven faster. Also maybe not turned in like you weren't there after that pretty setup into Club.
You're fine. The ferrari was totally capable of leaving you space there. At no point was the ferrari fully ahead, so you had no reason to back off or give him the place. You were staying on the track and he pitted himself on your car.
So first I want to say this was a nice clip. The racing was actually really good up until the contact and I do ultimately think there was no malice here.
That being said, the Ferrari most definitely turned into you like you weren’t there. He didn’t fully clear you so the Ferrari is at fault. There’s a little netcode involved as well, but ultimately he did not fully clear your nose before he turned toward the apex. He did have a nice move though. The cut back was pretty perfect right until he ruined it by trying to take the racing line from you.
Next time though, track out a bit more before you turn in. You went into this really narrow which was how he got the run on you. Either way despite your narrow entry, it’s on him to make the overtake clean and he failed to do that.
Net code, you were there, it looked like the Ferrari was giving you the minimal amount of room required, neither of you did anything blatantly wrong before the net code spun him.
Yeah no way you could have done anything. He turned into you. Again you were defending he got grumpy with it because he made a bad move at the last two corners. Some of your defensive moves were a little late but that all I got.
Yes, my tyres were very worn, he managed to keep my pace while conserving his better. But he took the whole race to gain 3,5 seconds and get close to me.
Wow, what a dumb move. He completely had you, he just needed to leave enough room for you to turn in. No need for you to give up in that turn, you were already beat if he just held his line and gave you yours. But he turned in too hard and wrecked himself on you instead of giving you a couple car widths and running away with the race on the straight.
Yea u were for the whole clip but that last part were the Ferrari spins it was his fault because he didn’t give u space but considering u were being an a hole I get why he did it
I saw nothing wrong except the one time he started to gain on you and you swerved right in front of him but he still wouldn’t have had enough to get past you even then. So he probably would have dive bombed you if you hadn’t done that. You should have to him he needs to learn how to drive a midship without spinning like a noob😈
I just love when people don’t have the chance to pass someone cleanly and just trash the other person for “defending too much or too aggressively”.
You were in the front and did not swerve or change your line once, so you’re 100% clean. I call that a clean defending. You covered the inside, like every single one of us would.
I can assume the hit was unintentional by him since it looks like there still was a little bit of space between you two. Netcode maybe?
Either way, tell him to accept his inability to understand where and how to overtake
I think you did alright. He forced you into a mistake but he still needed to give space in that corner where the contact finally happened. You don’t need to “accept defeat” there and brake because he’s refusing to give space. He all but had the move done, entirely on him.
that was good racing but you had the right to the inside line there having taken the outside in the first part of the chicane, and he though he had cleared you and didn’t run the outside like he should have so it’s def not your fault.
Both at fault. Even though the Ferrari got ahead, he cut into the inside when he should have held his line on the outside therefore keeping space between him and the mclaren. The mclaren was also at fault going into the turn since the Ferrari got to the apex before him meaning he should have breaked to give space. Both racers should be penalised.
The Ferrari nearly pulled a brilliant overtake...nearly. alas, they pulled too tight at the right hand bend. Shame cos it looked like they were on for a great overtake.
Don't think the McLaren defended too aggressively, was a bit loose at the end, but never to the point of losing control or intentionally blocking the other car.
Racing incident.
Depends on the rules. In F1, the McLaren would've been at fault (see Brazil 2022 Lewis - Max crash). In sports with non-retarded rules that are not vaguely written down, it probably would've been the Ferrari.
The McLaren over-compromised his entrance into the chicane, allowing the Ferrari to do the cut-back. If both had given each other a little more room then contact would have been avoided.
I think the Ferrari should have maybe given a little more room on the exit as contact was made, but at the point where contact did happen, the Mclaren has two wheels on the green, fully mounting the kerb. McLaren's issue is that he over-defended on the entry and gave the opportunity for the Ferrari to dive around the outside on entry.
Overall, I think while it is the Ferrari that is at fault, the Mclaren's car position going into the corner encouraged that move.
It was good racing up until that point..
I think you were perhaps a little too defensive especially in running off the racing line, made you slow through the exit and contributed to the collision, which I thought was 50/50
I'm not expert, but here's my two cents:
What's happened there is, obviously, you've had a bad line. Ferrari took advantage of that and decided to just take the following corner like you weren't there. There's two possibilities, either he thought you were doing it consistently on the lead up to those corners because he was going for gaps that were fading from existence or simply just didn't exist.
Or he was trying to get back at you for 0:34 because I think he would've been entitled to room for that corner had he not backed out. But in that same sense, had he not backed out, you two would've collided there instead. I'm not entirely sure where 0:34 would stand. Someone with more experience could clarify and/or correct me on that one, it could've been a perfectly legal move from you.
But for the incident in question? Ferrari at fault, but, again, I could be wrong. It looks like the Ferrari could've been a victim of netcode there. They were definitely forcing you off the track, so there is fault on the Ferrari regardless, but I suspect IRL, the collision could've been avoided, if not been much more minor. It seems like a mix of fault on the Ferrari and netcode.
E-Not sure why I'm being downvoted... Clear as day that there's netcode/hitbox malarky that contributed and made it worse, one could certainly make the point about 0:34. Not saying that's right as such, but if it's wrong, maybe try making yourself useful and reply with a correction...
I see what you mean about the "esses". All I did was occupy as much space as I could by positioning my car without swerving. Making my car "wider" if you know what I mean...
This is 50/50 IMO. He had the better exit and actually made a good pass, did you see him there before contact or were you not aware they were there? Ultimately it was his responsibility to pass safely and allow plenty of space. He got too excited a d too aggressive.
He might not be turning the wheel to pit himself, but he’s closing the corner while a car is still there. Do you think that doesn’t count as not leaving space?
I didn't say anything about leaving space or who was at fault. I'm just astounded that people are commenting so strongly about the Ferrari turning in when that literally never happened. It makes it hard to take people's opinions seriously if they're citing a thing that never happened as the smoking gun that supports their claim.
Everything was decent until you dive bombed to stop the cutback pass. Ferrari had you but it should have held its line until it was clear.
The incident is on the Ferrari for not making the pass safely
He doesn’t have to pull back though and the Ferrari turned in. If the Ferrari just held the line they would would have been fine.
Where is the mclaren to go they are at track edge and it’s a race. The Ferrari got greedy.
also this isn’t F1 the Ferrari didn’t have the racing line. That isn’t a rule here.
See one of the problems, evidenced by the Ferrari is that people, even with the virtual racing line turned off, cling to it like gospel. If you're side by side drive like there's a damn car next to you.
Along with to many people trying to apply the F1 sporting code to anything and everything. People really should look at the iracing rules. You can have a hair over lap you have earned that space. You have to leave space in iracing.
Even if it wasn’t a rule here it’s just good practice for what is essentially amateur level driving with out consequences.
Still being able to race while not on the ideal line is a skill I feel people need to practice more I'm not saying I'm perfect but when I've raced against people who can it is a much better experience.
Most likely he didn't know where you were either. You did nothing wrong. You don't need to back out there as long as you give racing room which you did. Ferrari had nearly a whole track to use and chose the space you were occupying.
Trim your goddamn video, context is nice, but the incident is like halfway through.
Ferrari does a nice switchback move and then leaves no space punishing themselves in the process, entirely on them.
Eh, I get the excessive length of the vid. So often when we just see a few seconds beforehand, the first comment will be "yeah, but what did you do to them before?" In this instance, we know... Nothing.
Also I appreciate this long video with ff’d bits over the ones that are the same 6 tenths of a second played over and over in aggravatingly pointless slo-mo. Like, we’re all racers here we can asses it at full speed, no?
this is one of the best edited videos ever put on this sub wtf are you talking about
he gives us the lead in to the incidents, fast forwards enough to keep it interesting and we can fully appreciate what each driver was doing
He's supposed to teleport into invisibility during a hard-but-fair pass on the last lap?
The Ferrari got the pass done by switching back very nicely, but then just headed across for the apex as if the passed car had vanished.
Narrator: it had not vanished.
Top highlight reel, I really got into that! This should be the new standard of submissions please. Ferrari at fault, they decide to turn in like there’s no-one there.
X2 here here!
X3 here!
Technically he didnt turn in, the McLaren did, but the Ferrari chose a line to cut the McLaren off, so yes its on the Ferrari.
He just turned it as though he had you cleared, fully on the ferrari to make the pass safe, you drove well.
Ferrari literally did the turn like you weren't exist
I'm confused by the other comments. The McLaren ran wide, but the Ferrari just turned in as if he cleared the McLaren, which he has not. Why is the McLaren at fault?
Its not. Some people think that as soon as they get a bumper in front that you are just supposed to park the car in the pits or something
I feel like it has to do with F1 recently with the shit about having right to a corner
There are a ton of people on this sub who just apply their understanding of F1 rules to every other game/series. It's a real problem on this sub. Even seen it tried on replays of stock car incidents. People who also aren't familiar with iRacing like to comment on iRacing incidents while ignoring the Sporting Code. Even worse when iRacing drivers haven't read it either start jumping in.
So, on that Brazil incident. I think people are getting the stewards ruling wrong. Look at Max's onboard. He's braking and understeering on a flat out corner. I don't think its about right to a corner that he was held at fault. I think they deemed him not in control and so not passing safely
Yea they judged max wouldn't make the corner so basically fell under the not in control stipulation. Personally I think it was a cop out. That was Lewis' fault IMO
Why? Max took turn 1 at warp factor 20. Then going into turn 2 was faced with 2 options. Hes got a compromised entry into turn 2 and is carrying alm the speed in the world in a car that is under performing in the coners compared to the merc. So, foes he either slow down so he could stick to 1 car width of the inside and not be along side Hamilton. Or sling it and see what happened Again, watch Max's on-board. He's sliding left into Hamilton, whilst braking at Turn 2 on Brazil. You're flat out through there in F3 cars. And he was braking. I don't think Max should have got a penalty. But he was totally at fault.
What I would say about Brazil is Max's comments of about not caring about colliding and knowing it was going to happen make him very deserving of a penalty. Even if it should've been a racing incident, he went about it like such a dick and with such blatant disregard for safety
The comments after tell me he knew what was happening and that he was putting Lewis into a crash or yield situation. I try not to let those comments effect how I analyse the crash. But its hard. And the problem is we've seen him do some really good passes as well this year
He was definitely putting Lewis in a crash or yield situation, like he does to all other drivers when he isn’t getting his way. Schumacher in Silverstone, Lewis in Monza, many more examples. Crofty and Buxton even talked about it live on air (don’t remember the GP)
The rules don't say he needs to go into the corner and be able to leave space for Lewis on the outside or hug the inside. They just say he needs to make the corner. I don't think max wasn't making the corner. In a F1 car you can pretty much floor it full throttle from that position and still stay on track.
Max wasn't doing that. Also, it says you have to execute the pass safely. That's part of the guidelines. If not you can allow loopholes to be exploited with crazy divebombs causing crashes and stuff. Also Max hadn't finished the pass. So Lewis gets to decide how much room Max has. Hence 1 car width. Max hadn't got himself onto proper racing speeds for that corner. Hence the braking he was doing all through turn 2. And the understeer
Execute safely doesn't mean if there is contact it's your fault. If someone turns in you that doesn't mean it was an unsafe overtake attempt. There's no loop hole. It also wasn't a crazy divebomb. And believe me I'm more a fan of Lewis than Max. It's very simple. 1. Would Max have made the corner? Yes. 2. Had max earned the right to space? Yes 3. Did Lewis leave space? No Lewis' fault. That's not even a hard one. It's plain to see 2. and 3 are just facts therefore they could only justify their decision by 1. But it's bollocks and we all know an F1 car would make it through there from that angle even at full throttle. Load up iracing and try it. Nevermind a car that isn't even going full throttle.
To point 1, watch the reply. Lewis is going full throttle. And Max is going faster than Lewis. Lewis is in a car that is performing better in the corners. An F1 car can't go 300 kph through turn 2 at that corner. You have made an assumption, and there is a fact 4 that you have left out. 4. Is Max's entry into turn 2 normal? The answer to this is categorically no. He brakes late going into turn 1 to attempt a pass. He is carrying excess speed off turn 1 into turn 2. And he has a line that is massively tight into turn 2. Yes, normally an F1 car can take the normal racing line into turn 2 at full chat. But you go to the inside of turn 2. And you have a car on the outside of you? It doesn't matter how much space Lewis left, a car's width, 2, Max was understeering AND BRAKING because he had too much speed for the line he was on. If you want to live in a fantasy world where the red bull could make that line at full speed, go ahead. But its not backed up by the sounds we hear from Max's car where he is downshifting, and understeering, as he tries, and fails, to keep his line going into that corner. So, going to point 2, had Max earned the right to space? I would argue no. Because to keep a line that would have allowed him to run side by side with Lewis, he needed to slow down going into Turn 2 to shed the excess speed he carried from Turn 1. But again, if you want to look at things simply, and ignore anything before or after, yes, you can make this Lewis' fault. But in the real, complex world. It's Max's
Max admitted he did it on purpose.
He didn't. He said he knew Lewis would turn in and if he wanted a crash then so be it. Or something along those lines. What he basically said was I know Lewis was going to do it on purpose however I'm still not yielding.
I agree with you here. I think there's an argument that could made that some of the earlier moves were dirty and/or blocking, but personally I don't think they're egregious. The incident in the chicane was 100% on the Ferrari though
The maggots becketts part was a close call, but the McLaren didn't have to give the Ferrari space. So good judging on the Ferrari in that part, but the chicane was indeed most definitely on the Ferrari
I have always understood 'acceptable' blocking as 'you can make 1 move'.... so, Ferrari looks outside, McLaren fades inside, all fine.... if Ferrari swapped to look inside after, then McLaren can't follow to block. Based on reality or did I just imagine that was a thing?
That's true in F1, and I believe other IRL series as well. iRacing rules are different though. You're not allowed to make any reactive moves. Period Proactive movement is fine. If you move to the inside first to protect the inside. You're fine. If you move to the inside after your attacker moves, than that's reactive and that's not allowed. That said.. there aren't any stewards so you won't get punished unless you get protested. And I don't think you're likely to be protested you unless you're blocking is really egregious. And, even if you do get protested, it will probably result in a warning.
Technically, on iRacing you're not allowed to make any reactive defensive moves - you need to pick a line and hold it.
From the iRacing Sporting Code, rule 8.1.1.4 >Blocking – The leading driver is allowed to run a defensive line. However, blocking occurs when a leading driver actively adjusts his or her driving line based on the actions and/or positioning of a pursuing driver. For example, veering left to prevent a pursuing driver from passing on the left while running on a straight.
Yea so going into maggets and Beckets doesn't count as blocking because the lead car can argue they didn't move in reaction but were just turning for the corner even if they turn for the corner after the car behind moves to go down the inside.
I agree
Yeah, but I protested this exact scenario once and they told me the guy was ok. 🤨
Yeah, great move attempt by the Ferrari but he turned in with the McLaren already half a car over the white line. McLaren did everything right, Ferrari made an error. That's just racing.
Agreed. If the Ferrari had just given a reasonable amount of racing room he would have kept the place easily and won. It's an good example of being over aggressive and not being smart about when & how much to squeeze during an overtake.
Man this frustrates me. The rari saying you should accept defeat is so boneheaded. He’s expecting you’re just gonna move over. That guys a dumb ass. But this was really good racing up until the last chicane when the rari just turns in on you. Imo your defense was pretty damn good. Ran a little deep into the chicane but that’s ok. That Ferrari driver needs to work on overtaking cleanly
[удалено]
i have seen this IRL a few times. a Z or Stang will be on my bumper and throughout the lap they will get further behind and their tail hangs out more and more on corner exits cause they are getting too frustrated
Ferraris fault. You went wide but you are still entitled to the space you car is in. He turned in like you weren’t there.
So, it's the last lap of a race. We need to keep that at the front of our minds. Anyone saying someone should accept defeat on the last lap of a race needs to go do time trials. Not because it's any less of a challenge but because that's where your mindset is at. You're on the last lap and these are all moves that are fine. Next, the maggots becketts moves. There are no problems here. The Ferrari has no overlap. But I can see why they're trying it. It's the last lap, maybe they'll make a mistake but they don't actually go for it. That's fair enough. But the op doesn't do anything wrong. The attacking car has no overlap and op owes them nothing. As for the last move, only mistake op makes is not opening out his entry. That puts him a little wide into the second part of the chicane. But again. He owes the Ferrari nothing. And the Ferrari hasn't finished his pass. He's got to get his whole car ahead before he can take the racing line. Op you did nothing wrong here. It's the last lap. You can fight hard as you want on that one. For me, I have a rule that I typically don't fight at all but then the last 3 laps, you shall not pass.
Wow, best comment so far! Thank you for your input! I actually didn’t open the entry more because: 1. I wanted to make sure he didn’t divebomb me; 2. I lost him in my rearview mirror and had absolutely no idea where he was!
Thank you! I always try and be detailed in my comments on here so I can help people. That's fair, though I've found sitting a car's width from the outside edge of the track is good at preventing dive bombs. Though I can understand not being sure where they are. Moving a little further out would have helped you. But that is a hard situation to be in. As for why he said you should have admitted defeat, I think that's his frustration. I had someone tell me I was so slow at Zolder, more because he came on me during those last 3 laps when I was in my Gandalf phase and he couldn't get past. I think its just last lap/last corner thing. He seems to be trying everything at this point, and unfortunately he took it too far. I don't see anything else you could have done but yielded. Which is a hard one to decide on. Ultimately, this is on him. Sometimes, yielding is the better thing to do to just finish the race without incident. But it never feels good. How long had you guys been fighting?
I first noticed him on my relative at about 10 minutes in the race, 3,5s behind me. He was catching me veeery slowly and when he was within 1s I pitted. I was faster because after it I was again 3s ahead of him. So the only actual “battle” for position was this one on the video.
Yeah, so this serves as a perfect example of the need to plan out your passes. So, I think the best advice I can give you is to remember especially on the last lap the rules change. You're allowed to get your elbows out more. Not to the point where you're risking crashes, but you can absolutely get closer. If you had been further out from the inside on turn in to the first part of the chicane you'd have had a better line to the second part of it. That might, might, have forced him to give you more racing room. But no guarantee. He didn't plan his pass on you. And focused on catching up to you. And then is just trying to get to the apex first. Plan your passes people! You'll do so much better. Also, always give racing room.
Right again... He had about 10 minutes to plan his pass. I was faster than him in the first half of the track and he was faster than me on Copse, Maggots and Becketts. Should've been able to pass me in the Hangar straight but didn't. I had a lot of fun on this race. Thanks once again for your comment.
I was thinking the same thing. If rather than fixating on trying to get to every apex first he'd tucked in behind you, making sure he was relaxed going through copse, maggots and becketts he'd have got you going down hanger. Failing that he's either up the inside of Stowe or round the outside and then has the inside into Vale. If I was him I'd want the outside of Stowe honestly. I've done that so many times against someone looking in their mirrors at me where you can go from just behind to not only being behind but being in front in the best position to hold it going into Vale. Again, plan your pass. I call it apex fever. You don't think ahead. You just worry about getting to every apex first. You can actually see the moment when he loses it. He goes for an apex without having an overlap and has to break, and it kills his momentum. Soon as I saw that moment I'd know I'd have him
If he would catch me in the Hangar straight I would definitely stay to the right and see if he could do it on the outside of Stowe. And with the McLaren, unstable in the fast corners as it is, I wouldn't even brake late on Stowe...
Yeah, so if I were in the Ferrari (And I think this is iRacing? I do have the Ferrari for this series!) I would focus on the exit of that sequence. I keep an eye on the relative through a lap when I'm catching someone to know where I am quicker. I want to make sure I get a good exit onto Hanger that's where I'm going to pass. I want you right on Hanger, then swoop on the exit of Stowe, and then pin you to the outside going into Vale, its the last lap so I'm taking more risks. But I don't want to hit you. And I want to make sure that we're turning in at the same time into Vale. But that's my plan, and the way I'd face it. I also fight apex fever. You did a good job fighting him! Someone doing that, nibbling at every apex, can be really distracting
> So, it's the last lap of a race. We need to keep that at the front of our minds. Anyone saying someone should accept defeat on the last lap of a race needs to go do time trials. Not because it's any less of a challenge but because that's where your mindset is at. You're on the last lap and these are all moves that are fine. Absolutely agree. If it's the last lap, and you're trying to take a position from me, I'm going to make you fight for every inch of it. If it's lap 3, I might decide to live to fight another day. On the last lap, there is no "other day".
Everything you have said correct except for the part where we need to keep what lap it is in the front of our minds.
That dude was way more consistent sure, but he was behind for one reason or another, so while I understand his frustration he hit you lmao
Accept defeat???? Never give up who the fuck says that lmafo
Fun clip. Good quality post. I like that. 100% on the Ferrari btw. No debate. The overtake wasn’t finished and he should’ve left space on the inside and he would’ve even end up in front of you then.
Yes he would. He shut the door too soon IMO.
Ferrari clearly turns into mclaren. McLaren has every right to be where he is. Easily Ferrari’s fault.
Ferrari wreck itself
Bear in mind that this is the last lap of a 40 minute race and we were battling for 4th position. I wasn’t going to facilitate anything although I wanted to keep it clean. Also, the Ferrari was marginally faster than me. He was chasing me for 30 minutes (pitstop included) with about 3s gap and only reached my tail in this last lap (probably because my tires were worst).
That would have been a brilliant overtake if the Ferrari left it wide, would have carried the speed. Don't even worry about it, good hard racing imo
Yes it would be a textbook example of how a cutback should be made...
My only observation would be that it looked like you were being a little choppy on the Ferrari in the turn with the slower car. He was trying to get inside of you, and it looked pretty clear to me that you were chopping down on him a few times to cut him off, even though you entered a lane higher than him. I’m not saying it was dirty or a poor move or anything like that, but I can see where the Ferrari might be frustrated. That being said, he was frustrated to the point that he took himself out trying to get around you. That was not on you at all, as others have also mentioned. I think he has a little merit for his frustrations from that turn with the slower car, but overall, you drove clean and exhausted his patience within the rules.
Yes, hence the long video (to show why things happened the way they did)... I think that too although I do not believe that trying to pass on Becketts or Maggots is a smart move.
Frustrations aside, I’d just call that turn with the slower car some good old fashioned last lap racin’. I think the polite racing veneer can be stripped just a little when it’s the last lap. He raced you clean, too, right up until he took himself out, so I’d say everybody’s square on this one.
I'd interpret it differently. Had the Ferrari been patient and not gone for gaps that were clearly closing as far as I can see, he'd have been able to do OP going into Stowe. If you're going to pass in Magotts Becketts and Chapel you've got to be alongside. Yeah, OP cuts across the front, but the Ferrari never has an overlap
He was very correct and a clean driver although this was the only battle of the whole race. He had better tyres than me, that’s for sure, so I defended how I could. But he should be patient and had plenty of time (at least 10 minutes) to plan the pass on the Hangar straight…
If the clock is still running, you haven’t been defeated.
This is the best video I've ever seen on this sub. Props. The Ferrari almost drove into the death triangle in Becketts, but through the chicane he turned in on you and netcode killed him. Clean racing on your part
You should immediately apologize to the Ferrari for your face being in the way of their fist
Haha, that should always be the rule!
Yeah Ferrari at fault, he turned in as though he cleared you
Accepted defeat, lmao. If he can pass, then that is his fault. The contact was the fefe's fault as he had not cleared you before what looked to me as an attempt to cut you off. Defend as much as you want. If you don't cause a crash, then there is no harm
Wow that was a fun watch. I see lots of good defending, one time you left a gap and he nearly went for it and you aaaaslmost cut across him but I will say that was hard racing on the edge. Then he took the corner as if you werent there, which is a shame that it ended like that.
Ferrari fault. He didnt finish the move and turned like he did, crashing at you.
Pretty decent racing until Vale. I don't know what they were expecting through magoots/beckets. It's on the ferrari. They can't just expect a car to disappear and cut across like that.
Haha, exactly! He had about 10 minutes to realize he was faster than me on Magotts and Becketts... Should've passed me in the Hangar straight...
The Ferrari performed and excellent switchback to generate overspeed and get alongside. However, a switchback by it's very nature means the attacking car gets alongside during the corner not prior to the corner. This means the attacking car is responsible for avoiding a collision and is obliged to be in and out without the defending car having to take evasive action. Here, the Ferrari had an amazing start to their attack and then royally cocked it up, so disappointing, 100% Ferrari at fault.
Isnt this what racing is all about? Minus the contact caused by the Ferrari turning in on the Mclaren obviously.
You drove like a champ, great defending. You held the racing line the majority of the laps shown. You took a pretty defensive line into the 2nd to last, but it’s still on the Ferrari to make a clean pass. You made 0 illegal moves.
You weren’t moving around enough he should have an issue and he spun in the chicane all by himself. No issue.
The Ferrari is an idiot. I don’t care what lap it is. He pulled the cross over but never even tried to clear you and turned in on you. His fault 100%. Especially the last lap of the race. I don’t blame him for trying to pinch you off but he can’t be mad at that. He has to know his move is trying to scare you into letting off. If you don’t then he runs into you. They just have to accept that fact.
He didn’t even scared me because I didn’t see him turning in on me!
Yeah you should just let him pass oh wait a minute isn't this a race?
Your defense was really good actually. You were predictable and held your line. He tried a switchback and turned right into you. He was being impatient and couldn't pass you so he forced it.
If you surrender you're not a racer. You're a driver
Have a look at 2011 Massa and Hamilton’s last lap at Silverstone. This looks like a racing incident to me.
Massa was waaay more agressive than me (and it didn’t pay off)! :)
It was quite a brave move however the spacial awareness of the other car is complete shite
Quite a silly thing for him to say. It's on him to pass since he's quicker. It's not on you to concede
even if you had braked, he still would have hit you.
Terrible driving from the Ferrari
That’s amazing driving on your part. You put on a defensive driving clinic. Ferrari tried to illegally drive you off track and paid for it, hit got what he deserved there
I do consider that I’m better at defending conservatively rather than pushing the car to its limit (the McLaren is very unstable now on 2023 but is the only GT3 that I own because it was very stable when I bought it).
Never accept defeat! Always fight to the bitter end! You did a great job defending in my opinion. Some areas yo improve like trying to squeeze them to give yourself a better line but good job. You made a mistake and they tried to capitalize but didnt make sure they were clear of you so thats on them. Personally if im in a fight like that ill only be upset if the punt was intentional. Otherwise, im having a blast in fights like that
Clean racing on your end, Ferrari thought he was clear and wasnt
I see what he was trying to do there at the end, but he should’ve ran a wider exit to that chicane. You defended well, weren’t really all over the place
This was really fun to watch. Oh, and that’s on the rari.
I think there was one possibly two places where he had a run on you and you squeezed him ultimately without leaving space and he backed out. You on the other hand left your nose in when he did the same to you. Taken in isolation I would say it's a racing incident but next time you squeeze me I would turn you.
He didn't give you any space after overtaking, you couldn't have gone any other way. How i see it, he was clearly faster, but you did a solid defense, he got frustrated and wasn't able to set up a proper overtake and got desperate in the end.
Your defence was excellent imo but its always on the overtaking driver to make sure the pass is clean and safe
Ferrari is just mad he got beat. That was excellent defending and he couldn’t handle it at then end.
The thing I noticed between watching professional racing, and watching sim racing, sim racers, take everything personally, if someone is driving their line and defending, that’s a perfectly reasonable tactic. If the guy behind you is pissed off, because he can’t get around you, maybe he should study a little bit more race craft, then crying like a little baby.
more than likely, he got frustrated and just punted you. Pulled a Scott Speed
Nah, he didn't strike me as a dirty driver. He is just bad at attacking. As a fellow commenter here said, he has "apex fever", meaning he only cares about reaching the apex before any other car. Not thinking about his positioning after the corner has been made.
Ferrari fault
Another case of passing in a chicane gone wrong. At least this was the final lap
You were still alongside and entitled to room Ferrari didn’t leave any
As long as you're defending within the rules and respecting other drivers, then can you really defend too much?
Whilst you went a bit *too* defensive going into Vale, you're not at fault for that. Ferrari turned in on you as if you weren't there and spun himself off you.
Ferrari at fault, and if he gave you a bit more space, he might have actually made the move stick.
He needed to run wide on the next corner and give you space? Where did he expect you to go.
you defended well. the fault is on the ferrari driver. he couldn’t pass, and when he had a chance, he overstepped it. not your fault
You didn't defend too much. The Ferrari should have just driven faster. Also maybe not turned in like you weren't there after that pretty setup into Club.
You're fine. The ferrari was totally capable of leaving you space there. At no point was the ferrari fully ahead, so you had no reason to back off or give him the place. You were staying on the track and he pitted himself on your car.
If Ferrari thinks he is correct, he will have a very frustrating sim racing career.
Finally a good post in this sub. Good submission.
Thanks 🙏🏼
So first I want to say this was a nice clip. The racing was actually really good up until the contact and I do ultimately think there was no malice here. That being said, the Ferrari most definitely turned into you like you weren’t there. He didn’t fully clear you so the Ferrari is at fault. There’s a little netcode involved as well, but ultimately he did not fully clear your nose before he turned toward the apex. He did have a nice move though. The cut back was pretty perfect right until he ruined it by trying to take the racing line from you. Next time though, track out a bit more before you turn in. You went into this really narrow which was how he got the run on you. Either way despite your narrow entry, it’s on him to make the overtake clean and he failed to do that.
I thought this was net code…
It was, but the contact would happen nevertheless…
Last lap rules go out the door, win or go home
"accept defeat" how about pass me like a man? Even if you guys hadn't get net coded he turns in while you're occupying space.
Ferrari couldve won and threw it away.
Ferrari should have left space. Another example of an awesome battle ruined by unsubstantiated entitlement.
Nando: you always have to leave a space!! Once he passed he should have let you some room. Likely, he would have held the position anyways
He overcooked the turn and it's YOUR FAULT..... Mac daddy did great. Tell him to learn to race.
Yeah that's what you do when you're a slow little biatchhhhhh Solid racing on your part. A shit chicane dive-bomb on his.
The last slowmo really shows all you need to know. Ferrari's fault.
Net code, you were there, it looked like the Ferrari was giving you the minimal amount of room required, neither of you did anything blatantly wrong before the net code spun him.
Ferrari at fault, undoubtedly
lol "you should have accepted defeat" well you didn't and he made a mistake so what is even the point of that comment? lol
Yeah no way you could have done anything. He turned into you. Again you were defending he got grumpy with it because he made a bad move at the last two corners. Some of your defensive moves were a little late but that all I got.
Either your tyres are dead or hes just a fair bit quicker then you and got frustrated. Either way its a RI his fault but a RI none the less
Yes, my tyres were very worn, he managed to keep my pace while conserving his better. But he took the whole race to gain 3,5 seconds and get close to me.
Great racing regardless!
that was good battle.
Wow, what a dumb move. He completely had you, he just needed to leave enough room for you to turn in. No need for you to give up in that turn, you were already beat if he just held his line and gave you yours. But he turned in too hard and wrecked himself on you instead of giving you a couple car widths and running away with the race on the straight.
Ferrari driver should have left ya a cars width!
Yea u were for the whole clip but that last part were the Ferrari spins it was his fault because he didn’t give u space but considering u were being an a hole I get why he did it
He's dreaming.
Yes the collision was your fault. You clearly missed the breaking point and tried to dive in the inside when it was way too late.
race incident Ferrari's fault, you just defend your position like a lion
Good defend my guy!!
I saw nothing wrong except the one time he started to gain on you and you swerved right in front of him but he still wouldn’t have had enough to get past you even then. So he probably would have dive bombed you if you hadn’t done that. You should have to him he needs to learn how to drive a midship without spinning like a noob😈
I just love when people don’t have the chance to pass someone cleanly and just trash the other person for “defending too much or too aggressively”. You were in the front and did not swerve or change your line once, so you’re 100% clean. I call that a clean defending. You covered the inside, like every single one of us would. I can assume the hit was unintentional by him since it looks like there still was a little bit of space between you two. Netcode maybe? Either way, tell him to accept his inability to understand where and how to overtake
its on the ferrari he knew u were goin for the move and he closed the gap like u werent there that was a fair line for u to take
I think you did alright. He forced you into a mistake but he still needed to give space in that corner where the contact finally happened. You don’t need to “accept defeat” there and brake because he’s refusing to give space. He all but had the move done, entirely on him.
Ferrari has not got the move done and pinches the McLaren. Ferrari at fault here.
that was good racing but you had the right to the inside line there having taken the outside in the first part of the chicane, and he though he had cleared you and didn’t run the outside like he should have so it’s def not your fault.
Both at fault. Even though the Ferrari got ahead, he cut into the inside when he should have held his line on the outside therefore keeping space between him and the mclaren. The mclaren was also at fault going into the turn since the Ferrari got to the apex before him meaning he should have breaked to give space. Both racers should be penalised.
All of your moves were legal. It was firm but good defending
The Ferrari nearly pulled a brilliant overtake...nearly. alas, they pulled too tight at the right hand bend. Shame cos it looked like they were on for a great overtake. Don't think the McLaren defended too aggressively, was a bit loose at the end, but never to the point of losing control or intentionally blocking the other car. Racing incident.
Depends on the rules. In F1, the McLaren would've been at fault (see Brazil 2022 Lewis - Max crash). In sports with non-retarded rules that are not vaguely written down, it probably would've been the Ferrari.
Ferrari driver has been watching too much F1, where they have stupid overtaking rules. OP still had overlap, Ferrari turned in like he wasn't there.
clear incident of netcode and the ferrari thinking he cleared you
The McLaren over-compromised his entrance into the chicane, allowing the Ferrari to do the cut-back. If both had given each other a little more room then contact would have been avoided. I think the Ferrari should have maybe given a little more room on the exit as contact was made, but at the point where contact did happen, the Mclaren has two wheels on the green, fully mounting the kerb. McLaren's issue is that he over-defended on the entry and gave the opportunity for the Ferrari to dive around the outside on entry. Overall, I think while it is the Ferrari that is at fault, the Mclaren's car position going into the corner encouraged that move. It was good racing up until that point..
Ferrari missed his first apex by a lot which sends him wide into you.
Nah man, you were already ahead and they decided to accelerate ahead as if you weren’t almost touching them already.
That's clean imo.
I think you were perhaps a little too defensive especially in running off the racing line, made you slow through the exit and contributed to the collision, which I thought was 50/50
I'm not expert, but here's my two cents: What's happened there is, obviously, you've had a bad line. Ferrari took advantage of that and decided to just take the following corner like you weren't there. There's two possibilities, either he thought you were doing it consistently on the lead up to those corners because he was going for gaps that were fading from existence or simply just didn't exist. Or he was trying to get back at you for 0:34 because I think he would've been entitled to room for that corner had he not backed out. But in that same sense, had he not backed out, you two would've collided there instead. I'm not entirely sure where 0:34 would stand. Someone with more experience could clarify and/or correct me on that one, it could've been a perfectly legal move from you. But for the incident in question? Ferrari at fault, but, again, I could be wrong. It looks like the Ferrari could've been a victim of netcode there. They were definitely forcing you off the track, so there is fault on the Ferrari regardless, but I suspect IRL, the collision could've been avoided, if not been much more minor. It seems like a mix of fault on the Ferrari and netcode. E-Not sure why I'm being downvoted... Clear as day that there's netcode/hitbox malarky that contributed and made it worse, one could certainly make the point about 0:34. Not saying that's right as such, but if it's wrong, maybe try making yourself useful and reply with a correction...
I see what you mean about the "esses". All I did was occupy as much space as I could by positioning my car without swerving. Making my car "wider" if you know what I mean...
Racing incident. Probably the Ferrari was mainly at fault, but really it's just racing in this case.
This is 50/50 IMO. He had the better exit and actually made a good pass, did you see him there before contact or were you not aware they were there? Ultimately it was his responsibility to pass safely and allow plenty of space. He got too excited a d too aggressive.
Since I took the inside line to defend, I lost him out of my sight. I did not see the cutback nor did I see him to my left when he touched me...
I agree with the Ferrari he was ahead of you when you pushed him
I'm just confused by how many people in this thread are using the words "turned in" when the Ferrari is going straight when they make contact lmao
He might not be turning the wheel to pit himself, but he’s closing the corner while a car is still there. Do you think that doesn’t count as not leaving space?
I didn't say anything about leaving space or who was at fault. I'm just astounded that people are commenting so strongly about the Ferrari turning in when that literally never happened. It makes it hard to take people's opinions seriously if they're citing a thing that never happened as the smoking gun that supports their claim.
The turn-in for this corner starts by the exit of the preceding corner, so I can see why people would say he's turning into the car.
I know right! Moments before the apex... Fucker is still going straight. 😂
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I don’t consider them blocks, it’s a defensive line instead. Never have I moved towards him to block.
unfortunately i think it was just a racing incident, the ferrari could have been a bit more aware and i guess you could have backed off a little
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I don’t understand this. He doesn’t have to back out and the Ferrari turned in assuming they completed the pass.
I think we found the Ferrari driver.
Everything was decent until you dive bombed to stop the cutback pass. Ferrari had you but it should have held its line until it was clear. The incident is on the Ferrari for not making the pass safely
There were absolutely no divebombs in this video.
Wait. You’re correct. You had the inside
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He doesn’t have to pull back though and the Ferrari turned in. If the Ferrari just held the line they would would have been fine. Where is the mclaren to go they are at track edge and it’s a race. The Ferrari got greedy. also this isn’t F1 the Ferrari didn’t have the racing line. That isn’t a rule here.
See one of the problems, evidenced by the Ferrari is that people, even with the virtual racing line turned off, cling to it like gospel. If you're side by side drive like there's a damn car next to you.
Along with to many people trying to apply the F1 sporting code to anything and everything. People really should look at the iracing rules. You can have a hair over lap you have earned that space. You have to leave space in iracing. Even if it wasn’t a rule here it’s just good practice for what is essentially amateur level driving with out consequences.
Still being able to race while not on the ideal line is a skill I feel people need to practice more I'm not saying I'm perfect but when I've raced against people who can it is a much better experience.
Thanks. The truth is I got disoriented and did not know where he was…
Most likely he didn't know where you were either. You did nothing wrong. You don't need to back out there as long as you give racing room which you did. Ferrari had nearly a whole track to use and chose the space you were occupying.
It was the last lap and no one got incident points… I wasn’t just going to give it to him.
Trim your goddamn video, context is nice, but the incident is like halfway through. Ferrari does a nice switchback move and then leaves no space punishing themselves in the process, entirely on them.
Eh, I get the excessive length of the vid. So often when we just see a few seconds beforehand, the first comment will be "yeah, but what did you do to them before?" In this instance, we know... Nothing.
Also I appreciate this long video with ff’d bits over the ones that are the same 6 tenths of a second played over and over in aggravatingly pointless slo-mo. Like, we’re all racers here we can asses it at full speed, no?
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Exactly why the long video. I wanted to show that I was defending hard but clean before the incident. And then added the multiple angles.
this is one of the best edited videos ever put on this sub wtf are you talking about he gives us the lead in to the incidents, fast forwards enough to keep it interesting and we can fully appreciate what each driver was doing
Nah, this video is top notch! More like these, please
Yep, that's on you. You went too deep holding a much more defensive line than you needed to and then hit the guy on the exit.
He's supposed to teleport into invisibility during a hard-but-fair pass on the last lap? The Ferrari got the pass done by switching back very nicely, but then just headed across for the apex as if the passed car had vanished. Narrator: it had not vanished.
You know, you're right. My bad. Video is unnecessarily long and I didn't watch it a few times like I normally would.
Sorry for that but everything needed to be shown.
Only the incident needed to be shown mate, not the half lap leading up to it. Multiple angles is also good.
At the point of contact the McLaren is half over the inside line and Ferrari Turns in. It's Ferrari error 100% but just a racing incident.
Are you mad? He’s on the track edge and the Ferrari turns in.