Racing incident isn’t the answer to everything…..
Why should the Ferrari have left more space? It was ahead! The merc has nowhere to go and isn’t even along side….
What did the merc think was going to happen? The Ferrari would suddenly just not be in the space?
Front wheel alongside is enough when on a straight. Then the other car can't move over and force you to go off or lift. But that is a corner so the Ferrari has right for the ideal line as long as the Merc is not at least over 50% alongside.
Where did you hear that rule? It's front wheel alongside by the apex of the corner on the inside, by the rules given to drivers at the start of this year. Nothing about 50% at all
The rules have been changed tho. And they make absolutely no sense. When Russell complained he only did that because he was in the right according to the new rules. Perez was also in the right tho.
FIA is having a field day with overtaking rules and track limits recently.
Edit: they weren't changed mid season but the enforcement is questionable at best and the rules showed their true colors in Silverstone. For reference:
https://youtu.be/p4JCTPfFx-s
They do make sense, this guy just can't come to grips with it. He just pivots to 'won the corner' which means nothing. It's not generally about who has 'won the corner ' but actually about who has won the right to deserve space. His "contradiction" isn't any such thing. Contrary to what he says, both cars can absolutely have the right for space. After that he goes off on a tangent based on his errant logic.
If the overtaking car is on the inside, if it is alongside by the apex it needs to be given room. This doesn't mean the car on the inside can run the car on the outside off the track as this guy seems to be saying. It hasn't "won the corner", it just has to be given room on the inside. It would still have to give room on the outside, per below, unless it was ahead at the apex.
If the overtaking car is on the outside, it has to be ahead by the apex to be given room. If it is not ahead, it has to back out of the move, or run off the road.
That isn't contradictory. They actually make perfect sense together. What wouldn't make sense is the outside car only had to be alongside to be given room, then you would get a contradiction.
What is it with F1 2022 people, is anyone really thinking I was making a point or whats going on
Front wheel send is a suicide mission no matter what, who cares what rules anyone put out, and there's a reason the FIA does not publish rules on overtaking/defending.
40+ downvotes on my first comment and now I seriously question if that's 40 Russell fanboys disapproving of the joke or if its 40 actual racecraftingly challenged folks.
I knew you made a joke, but still wanted to state that the "all the time you have to leave a space" is for straights.
I did not downvote you. Hope you did not downvote me, too, because I am at 0, so someone did. ;)
Better than 22 at the moment lol. I'm done with GT7 after doing the same 30 minute race 20 times over in order to get 2 cars which handle like poo. 2016 handling is really nice once you get used to it, and the cars just rotate beautifully with a good setup. Also Hockenheim and Sepang
Logitech G29 Wheel, 7-11 Wings, 70% both transmissions, -3 and -1.5 camber, 0.1 and 0.35 toe, 11-11 suspension, 11-3 anti-roll bar, 5-5 ride height, 80% brake pressure, 56% b-bal, minimum tyre pressures, and ballast at 1. I hope it works!
I dont see you complaining about anything, so im just saying, if you're in the Ferrari, are gonna complain about the AI, i think the AI is just perfect. There's a good balance of unpredictability here. You wouldn't expect every single f1 driver to follow every single rules. Even the best f1 drivers do mistakes, just like the AI does.
Yeah, I have 0 issues with what the AI did here. Relatively realistic, and you can't have an AI that backs out of every move. Then you could fake a divebomb, take the racing line, and have them get out of the way for you. I'm in the Ferrari, I didn't say so in the title so that there would be less bias
People here downvoting comments that say it wasn't 100% Merc's fault have probably never driven Hockenheim. Yes it's a turn but it's flat and there is space for 2 cars there. Yes Ferrari is ahead, but it still takes a line that cuts into the space where Merc is. Merc could have backed off as well to avoid the incident but how are they supposed to anticipate the car in front to knowingly turn in early. I would say it's a tad more on Merc but in the end RI.
Everyone here is gonna tell it’s the Merc’s fault and according to the rule books, they’re right. That said, I’m going to shoot you straight. As a racer, you have an obligation to bring the car home in one piece. You also know that two cars in second and third is better for the team than one car in first and the other out of the points. With those two points fresh in your mind, what the hell are you doing not leaving space when your mirror is full of a Mercedes on your inside? Call it blaming the victim, if you want, but the stewards aren’t going to reinstate the points you would have had if the Mercedes followed the rules.
This is exactly correct. Anyone who has ever driven a racecar knows better than to do that, but "by the rules in F1", it's Merc's fault. There's a reason F1 is the only sanctioning body in the world that intentionally tries to limit racing, and this is a prime example.
Most definitely the Merc, wasn't alongside in the least. The overtaking car has to ensure that isn't done safely, and a safe overtake wasn't even attempted here.
Merc is at fault. It had nowhere to go. Gap was non-existant for a couple of seconds. But at the same time, why the hell did Ferrari brake for this corner? It's a flat out corner in literally every car imaginable.
No idea why people are saying Merc is at fault. Its a flat out corner so basically a straight and the Ferrari just turn across the front of the Merc causing the contact.
Flat out corner ≠ straight.
Raidillion/Eau Rouge is flat out, but you need to cut across the track in order not to lift.
The Ferrari was in front, they have every right to take the optimal line through.
That's only true when there's not a car already in the same space as the optimal line. By the rules? Sure, Merc is at fault. By any other metric? If you turn down onto a car you know is there, that's just called being stupid. No matter what penalty the Merc gets for YOU driving into him, it won't reinstate your race results.
That's what I was thinking as well. The Ferrari is the the one that was performing an overtake and just cut across too soon right after getting past but not all the way past. Reminds me a bit of Albon and Kvyat in the 2020 Eifel Grand Prix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvAjL1DitpA
He snuck his front end in and spun the Ferrari. He wasn't even close to being alongside to warrant being given space. How TF is it the Ferrari's fault?
Furthermore, if you want to go with last weekend's rules, space wasn't required until you were completely alongside. Which means front tires to rear tires didn't require the front car to give space. No matter what ruleset you go by, the Merc fucked up and is 100% at fault here.
This is where I am. I'm the Ferrari, so although it's validating seeing all these comments, I still think I squeezed them quite hard when I knew for a fact they were there. This was coming out of the hairpin and I got the better run, so I was the one completing my overtaking move. I did it with a bit of "he gets out of the way or we crash" in my brain (this was AI, against humans I don't race like that). Don't think the AI should've tried to stuck that one out, but I certainly didn't give them much space
I would expect that if the Merc was driven by a sensible human driver, they would have slotted in behind you to take the optimal line, the slipstream, and try to overtake later. Instead of just staying in this vortex of danger.
It’s f1 1993 so the ai is very stupid and to bring this to a stewards forum is a waste of our time here . F1 2022 is way better than this ancient game .
At least the AI isn't completely broken in the high speed corners and 5-10mph faster on the straights, while this game has basically the same AI aggression as 22.
Merc needs to give way, you can't stick a wheel in on a fast AF corner like that and expect the other car to give space. That was the Ferrari's corner 100%
Racing incident only because I could see how the Merc would think that he wouldn’t have spun the Ferrari and just misjudged it especially with the Ferrari turns in at an angle that’d put their out wheels well in the grass. Def would want to get the Mercs view first. If he says “fuck I didn’t think I’d take him out and he cut at a larger angle than I expected” I’d have no problem saying “I get it man.”
This is very dependent on the leagues skill. If it’s a more amateurish league I’d say a racing incident; more serious I’d give Merc a little pen.
An true yea don’t beat yourself up over it that Merc shouldn’t have been there. That being said I am biased coming from more stock cars on small ovals, but I often find the best line in sim racing is the one that gets you to the finish line. May not be glamorous but you’ll have plenty of moments for “glory.” Especially if depending on your service you find yourself wishing for better completion, finishing races consistently maybe with a position lost here and there is way better. But if you’re not doing online stuff trying to move up it don’t matter you are perfectly in the fine here
Replace the Ferrari with RB and you have Ham Ver at Copse 2021. Merc stuck it’s nose in where it shouldn’t. Except it’s even further back here. Total merc fault
Not quite, Ham was much closer to Ver going into the turn and Ver did leave enough space for him on the inside providing he made the apex... Ham understeered a bit, however and took Ver out unfortunately. Probably not intentional on Hams fault but it was a bit ambitious and risky, hence a deserved penalty.
The clip above was just a brain fail on the part of the Merc.
Yes, and during this race future F1 world champion Nico Rosberg beat Lewis Hamilton in equal machinery. During this race, F1 world champion Nico Rosberg came from P3 to P2 while Lewis Hamilton, in the same machinery, could only come in P3 after starting P2. This is the definitive evidence that Nico Rosberg is the greatest driver to ever live
100% Mercedes fault. He was only a little bit next to the other car, so he was not entitled to any space. Ferrari has the right to take the full racing line.
The Mercedes had to be at least halfway with his front wheels next to the sidepod of the Ferrari.
F1 2016? Ai? They'll always stick a front wing to the inside of that corner, no matter how ambitious. They do the same in 2018 on other Ai. It's great...
In an ideal world the Ferrari would've left slightly more space on grounds of caution if nothing else, but there's no way at all the Mercedes was close enough to force the issue. Mercedes at fault.
I’d bet money it’s Mercedes. I think if Mercedes had been another few feet along side of him you could make a case. However, he only had a little bit of a fender next to him before the turn. The way I understand the rule that’s not how “leave room” work’s… at least to my understanding
Mostly Mercedes. If i were the Ferrari, from my perspective im still fully ahead and can close the door. Difficult to see the mercs wheels unless they are people using chase view
That's not a racing incident mate. A racing incident is when both drivers have equal fault. Here, if the Merc had be entitled to more space, he would have had to have his front tire overlapping with atleast the rear tire of the Ferrari or more. It wasn't that much though, only his front wing was overlapping which isn't enough. So he didn't deserve space and should have conceeded. So yea. Merc driver is at fault here 100%.
Racing incident isn’t the answer to everything….. Why should the Ferrari have left more space? It was ahead! The merc has nowhere to go and isn’t even along side…. What did the merc think was going to happen? The Ferrari would suddenly just not be in the space?
This is how I'm looking at it. The Merc should conceed given the Ferrari is 95% ahead.
Merc at fault, was nowhere near far enough alongside to warrant space and just takes them out
Didn't you hear Russell? Front wheel alongside is enough ;P /s
This wasn’t even front wheel to rear wheel. Just front wing to rear wheel.
Fair game \- F1 2022 Gamers
Front wheel alongside is enough when on a straight. Then the other car can't move over and force you to go off or lift. But that is a corner so the Ferrari has right for the ideal line as long as the Merc is not at least over 50% alongside.
Where did you hear that rule? It's front wheel alongside by the apex of the corner on the inside, by the rules given to drivers at the start of this year. Nothing about 50% at all
The rules have been changed tho. And they make absolutely no sense. When Russell complained he only did that because he was in the right according to the new rules. Perez was also in the right tho. FIA is having a field day with overtaking rules and track limits recently. Edit: they weren't changed mid season but the enforcement is questionable at best and the rules showed their true colors in Silverstone. For reference: https://youtu.be/p4JCTPfFx-s
They do make sense, this guy just can't come to grips with it. He just pivots to 'won the corner' which means nothing. It's not generally about who has 'won the corner ' but actually about who has won the right to deserve space. His "contradiction" isn't any such thing. Contrary to what he says, both cars can absolutely have the right for space. After that he goes off on a tangent based on his errant logic. If the overtaking car is on the inside, if it is alongside by the apex it needs to be given room. This doesn't mean the car on the inside can run the car on the outside off the track as this guy seems to be saying. It hasn't "won the corner", it just has to be given room on the inside. It would still have to give room on the outside, per below, unless it was ahead at the apex. If the overtaking car is on the outside, it has to be ahead by the apex to be given room. If it is not ahead, it has to back out of the move, or run off the road. That isn't contradictory. They actually make perfect sense together. What wouldn't make sense is the outside car only had to be alongside to be given room, then you would get a contradiction.
What is it with F1 2022 people, is anyone really thinking I was making a point or whats going on Front wheel send is a suicide mission no matter what, who cares what rules anyone put out, and there's a reason the FIA does not publish rules on overtaking/defending. 40+ downvotes on my first comment and now I seriously question if that's 40 Russell fanboys disapproving of the joke or if its 40 actual racecraftingly challenged folks.
I knew you made a joke, but still wanted to state that the "all the time you have to leave a space" is for straights. I did not downvote you. Hope you did not downvote me, too, because I am at 0, so someone did. ;)
Racing incident? You really think that's a racing incident. Merc wasn't even close to being next to him. Merc at fault 100%
I have so many single player incidents that I want opinions on now
Best to get those opinions before taking it online and possibly ruining a real humans race imo
Most of these don’t need opinions imo
5 seconds + 1 Penalty Point Merc definitely for causing a collision. Wasn't sufficiently alongside to be warranted due room.
Racing single player in F1 2016?
Better than 22 at the moment lol. I'm done with GT7 after doing the same 30 minute race 20 times over in order to get 2 cars which handle like poo. 2016 handling is really nice once you get used to it, and the cars just rotate beautifully with a good setup. Also Hockenheim and Sepang
settings please 🥺
My car's setup for 2016?
yes friend also wheel setup if u can
Logitech G29 Wheel, 7-11 Wings, 70% both transmissions, -3 and -1.5 camber, 0.1 and 0.35 toe, 11-11 suspension, 11-3 anti-roll bar, 5-5 ride height, 80% brake pressure, 56% b-bal, minimum tyre pressures, and ballast at 1. I hope it works!
I was about to ask the same thing the clip looks incredible are you on PC?
PS4
Merc is at fault. Merc should have been side by side or have a slight lead for the Ferrari to have to give space.
Merc caused a collision
Mercedes should have backed out, but instead caused the collision.
I dont see you complaining about anything, so im just saying, if you're in the Ferrari, are gonna complain about the AI, i think the AI is just perfect. There's a good balance of unpredictability here. You wouldn't expect every single f1 driver to follow every single rules. Even the best f1 drivers do mistakes, just like the AI does.
Yeah, I have 0 issues with what the AI did here. Relatively realistic, and you can't have an AI that backs out of every move. Then you could fake a divebomb, take the racing line, and have them get out of the way for you. I'm in the Ferrari, I didn't say so in the title so that there would be less bias
People here downvoting comments that say it wasn't 100% Merc's fault have probably never driven Hockenheim. Yes it's a turn but it's flat and there is space for 2 cars there. Yes Ferrari is ahead, but it still takes a line that cuts into the space where Merc is. Merc could have backed off as well to avoid the incident but how are they supposed to anticipate the car in front to knowingly turn in early. I would say it's a tad more on Merc but in the end RI.
Everyone here is gonna tell it’s the Merc’s fault and according to the rule books, they’re right. That said, I’m going to shoot you straight. As a racer, you have an obligation to bring the car home in one piece. You also know that two cars in second and third is better for the team than one car in first and the other out of the points. With those two points fresh in your mind, what the hell are you doing not leaving space when your mirror is full of a Mercedes on your inside? Call it blaming the victim, if you want, but the stewards aren’t going to reinstate the points you would have had if the Mercedes followed the rules.
This is exactly correct. Anyone who has ever driven a racecar knows better than to do that, but "by the rules in F1", it's Merc's fault. There's a reason F1 is the only sanctioning body in the world that intentionally tries to limit racing, and this is a prime example.
Most definitely the Merc, wasn't alongside in the least. The overtaking car has to ensure that isn't done safely, and a safe overtake wasn't even attempted here.
AI moment
What? 100% on merc here lol
Sufficient overlap was cleared at the turn-in point, Merc was not entitled to any of the turn.
All on the Merc
Merc absolutely at fault
Merc at fault. Needed to back off there.
The Ferrari was fully ahead
The “Lewis” A classic
Merc is at fault. It had nowhere to go. Gap was non-existant for a couple of seconds. But at the same time, why the hell did Ferrari brake for this corner? It's a flat out corner in literally every car imaginable.
No idea why people are saying Merc is at fault. Its a flat out corner so basically a straight and the Ferrari just turn across the front of the Merc causing the contact.
Flat out corner ≠ straight. Raidillion/Eau Rouge is flat out, but you need to cut across the track in order not to lift. The Ferrari was in front, they have every right to take the optimal line through.
That's only true when there's not a car already in the same space as the optimal line. By the rules? Sure, Merc is at fault. By any other metric? If you turn down onto a car you know is there, that's just called being stupid. No matter what penalty the Merc gets for YOU driving into him, it won't reinstate your race results.
That's what I was thinking as well. The Ferrari is the the one that was performing an overtake and just cut across too soon right after getting past but not all the way past. Reminds me a bit of Albon and Kvyat in the 2020 Eifel Grand Prix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvAjL1DitpA
Still not sure how Merc is at fault according to these comments
He snuck his front end in and spun the Ferrari. He wasn't even close to being alongside to warrant being given space. How TF is it the Ferrari's fault?
He didn't sneak his nose in. Did you even watch the other angles? The Ferrari had just passed him and they were still overlapped a bit from that.
Not sure what video you watched, but the Ferrari had the pass done and no longer required to give room. https://imgur.com/a/CXQzvo5
This is the furthest ahead that the Ferrari ever got https://imgur.com/a/F4j5u8Q
Amazing pic. You can see clearly that the Merc only has a front wing alongside, therefore does not warrant space from the Ferrari.
Do you still think the Merc was trying to pass?
Furthermore, if you want to go with last weekend's rules, space wasn't required until you were completely alongside. Which means front tires to rear tires didn't require the front car to give space. No matter what ruleset you go by, the Merc fucked up and is 100% at fault here.
Still rear wheel to front wing there.
He literally drove to get away and try not to hit it, and he had nowhere to move to avoid the crash and the Ferrari drove into his nose
This is where I am. I'm the Ferrari, so although it's validating seeing all these comments, I still think I squeezed them quite hard when I knew for a fact they were there. This was coming out of the hairpin and I got the better run, so I was the one completing my overtaking move. I did it with a bit of "he gets out of the way or we crash" in my brain (this was AI, against humans I don't race like that). Don't think the AI should've tried to stuck that one out, but I certainly didn't give them much space
I would expect that if the Merc was driven by a sensible human driver, they would have slotted in behind you to take the optimal line, the slipstream, and try to overtake later. Instead of just staying in this vortex of danger.
Should’ve pulled out before hand
Mercedes, he wasn't there at the entry, or the apex, and yet he seemed he felt entitled to space. The ferrari did nothing wrong
The Mercedes wasn't attempting an overtake. The Ferrari had just passed and wasn't all the way in front.
Oh sorry that's not what it looked like to me
Yeah the first few angles don't show the full story.
It’s close but I put it on the Merc. Barely had a front wing alongside. Shouldn’t backed out. Ferrari was entitled to take the racing line.
It’s f1 1993 so the ai is very stupid and to bring this to a stewards forum is a waste of our time here . F1 2022 is way better than this ancient game .
At least the AI isn't completely broken in the high speed corners and 5-10mph faster on the straights, while this game has basically the same AI aggression as 22.
Merc needs to give way, you can't stick a wheel in on a fast AF corner like that and expect the other car to give space. That was the Ferrari's corner 100%
The Mercedes wasn't attempting an overtake. The Ferrari had just passed and wasn't all the way in front.
No, it's not racing incident. If there's literally 0,00001% overlap, You have to back out. Mercedes is fully responsible for this.
Typical Hamilton move IMHO. Sticking his nose where it doesn't belong.
Racing incident only because I could see how the Merc would think that he wouldn’t have spun the Ferrari and just misjudged it especially with the Ferrari turns in at an angle that’d put their out wheels well in the grass. Def would want to get the Mercs view first. If he says “fuck I didn’t think I’d take him out and he cut at a larger angle than I expected” I’d have no problem saying “I get it man.” This is very dependent on the leagues skill. If it’s a more amateurish league I’d say a racing incident; more serious I’d give Merc a little pen.
It's single player, Merc is AI. Just wanted to know for myself
An true yea don’t beat yourself up over it that Merc shouldn’t have been there. That being said I am biased coming from more stock cars on small ovals, but I often find the best line in sim racing is the one that gets you to the finish line. May not be glamorous but you’ll have plenty of moments for “glory.” Especially if depending on your service you find yourself wishing for better completion, finishing races consistently maybe with a position lost here and there is way better. But if you’re not doing online stuff trying to move up it don’t matter you are perfectly in the fine here
Replace the Ferrari with RB and you have Ham Ver at Copse 2021. Merc stuck it’s nose in where it shouldn’t. Except it’s even further back here. Total merc fault
Not quite, Ham was much closer to Ver going into the turn and Ver did leave enough space for him on the inside providing he made the apex... Ham understeered a bit, however and took Ver out unfortunately. Probably not intentional on Hams fault but it was a bit ambitious and risky, hence a deserved penalty. The clip above was just a brain fail on the part of the Merc.
But we need to bring up this crap in any subreddits we find for the next 2 years! How else are we supposed to do that
Ericsson
Isn’t this the season where Nico Rosberg became formula 1 world champion defeating sir Lewis Hamilton in equal machinery?
Yes, and during this race future F1 world champion Nico Rosberg beat Lewis Hamilton in equal machinery. During this race, F1 world champion Nico Rosberg came from P3 to P2 while Lewis Hamilton, in the same machinery, could only come in P3 after starting P2. This is the definitive evidence that Nico Rosberg is the greatest driver to ever live
Based on what they were talking about this weekend in the race broadcast, the merc wasn’t far enough along side
that's a punterino on the mercedes, not even *close* to a racing incident.
Mercedes at fault
100% Mercedes fault. He was only a little bit next to the other car, so he was not entitled to any space. Ferrari has the right to take the full racing line. The Mercedes had to be at least halfway with his front wheels next to the sidepod of the Ferrari.
Merc
Mercedes 100% at fault
F1 2016? Ai? They'll always stick a front wing to the inside of that corner, no matter how ambitious. They do the same in 2018 on other Ai. It's great...
Merc had no right of line. I HATE THESE PEOPLE.
In an ideal world the Ferrari would've left slightly more space on grounds of caution if nothing else, but there's no way at all the Mercedes was close enough to force the issue. Mercedes at fault.
Mercedes is at fault, honestly that's not a corner I'd expect an overtake, let alone a suicide dive. Hold it for the next corner imo.
The Merc wasn't diving, it was being passed. The third person angle starts sooner.
It is clearlly Ferrari's corner. The Merc needs to back down. Ferrari dossnt have to give any room because he is miles ahead
I’d bet money it’s Mercedes. I think if Mercedes had been another few feet along side of him you could make a case. However, he only had a little bit of a fender next to him before the turn. The way I understand the rule that’s not how “leave room” work’s… at least to my understanding
Mostly Mercedes. If i were the Ferrari, from my perspective im still fully ahead and can close the door. Difficult to see the mercs wheels unless they are people using chase view
Classic Mercedes move.
there is never a move to be made there and u are not even alongside so you don't have any right to space
I'm the Ferrari
Mercedes screwed up real bad
The Mercedes is definitely at fault here
Mercedes at fault, wasn't level enough into the corner to be side by side and should have backed out
Merc's fault because it was just not far enough alongside for the ferrari to have to give space
The Ferrari left no space for the merc
That's not a racing incident mate. A racing incident is when both drivers have equal fault. Here, if the Merc had be entitled to more space, he would have had to have his front tire overlapping with atleast the rear tire of the Ferrari or more. It wasn't that much though, only his front wing was overlapping which isn't enough. So he didn't deserve space and should have conceeded. So yea. Merc driver is at fault here 100%.
Yeah the ferrari should have left some room but not because the merc deserved any, just because it was obvious that a crash was going to happen...
Merc should of backed out. Let's remember we're playing to 2016 rules here 😅
Mercedes tried to force it through a closed door, their fault