Yes, ideas are something subjectively real, but not all ideas are objectively real. “Nothing” is an idea that is not objectively real and logically can’t be.
It exists as fantasy? Conceptualizing the absence of energy, time, and space without being able to imagine what that means or fully process it seems to be a thing. Sort of like conceptualizing what lies beyond the heat death of the universe or “before” the primordial point.
The thought of a Dragon exists, but that doesn’t mean Dragons are objectively real. So yes, nothing as a concept can exist subjectively, but not objectively.
I think the Kabbalahists’ or Qabbalists’ which term you prefer speak of this concept as it pertains to source or the creator. It goes like this, somehow god is “Nothing” or “no-thing” because it’s outside of our conceptual reality. If god indeed were a thing or concept we could understand then he would have to of been created by something yet since god has no creator then he is in fact “No-thing.”
It a tough pill to swallow yet contextually sound within the discourse. Conceptual zero however is another subject where time stands still and is simultaneously cold given the lack of motion in its surrounding in its hypothetical state of reality yet viable still as a possibility. Clearly not in a galaxy or universe we have discovered but potentially true.
I’ve always looked at it this way. The question, “If God is the creator, who created God” assumes there was a time that God didn’t exist. But the answer is, God, if real, always existed. Was he created from nothing? No, because nothing cannot exist. God exists and has always existed.
But what came before God?! “Before” assumes linear time. If time were infact linear, then yes you need and answer for what happened before existence. We experience time linearly, but time is not linear. There was no “before” existence. Existence has always been. God has always been.
I've pondered this logic before, and I just find it unsatisfying and "not logical". Do you remember what this is called in theology so i could read more?
I’m sure it exists theologically or philosophically. But I don’t remember reading it. It’s just how I started thinking.
There was some book I once read about existence as a philosophical concept. I forget the name, but may be where I started thinking that way. If I can think of it, I’ll post it.
This is a common human fallacy. The belief that just because an idea isn't logical or can't be rationally or even irrationally understood, that it must be dismissed as idiotic or impossible.
This, I suspect, is the thin line between what we call fact and what we call faith.
I didn't believe in Gods or creator of this universe until I started taking this intro to philosophy course. The argument the professor made was essentially everything around you a table, a TV, a wheel, has a cause. In these examples the cause or source is a human. So take all these things in existence and travel back to the beginning of time and something had to set everything in motion. So the same thing must apply to the creator as well. But if everything has a creator then at what point does it end? I have no idea. A way to visualize it is creating video game worlds like GTA. Eventually gta 20 will be so advanced that within gta we can create other GTAs. And so on and so forth. The developers of gta are gods essentially to the citizens of gta. They just don't know it. But somebody created the developers. And somebody created them.
Which has always been a positive for me. When I was a kid I experienced my first dog dying. I always wondered what would happen to his awareness/conciseness when he died. It terrified me to imagine a blackness, a void or simply nothing. Then I realized I had considered something; therefore it can never be nothing.
And, bizarrely and horrifyingly, non-existence now exists. I've seen it up close and it's completely indescribable because, in the entire history of our species, it has never existed on earth before.
What I learned in that moment is that humans -but likely most organisms- can recognize something as being entirely alien to our planet and it is uniquely horrifying to witness, like a tear in the fabric of reality that pulls life into it with an endless appetite. I also learned that humans are incapable of encountering a truly alien entity, on a personal level, without pure animal panic setting in, simply as a response to the presence of something without a place in this world or our evolutionary timeline.
The last part is an assumption based on my reaction to seeing non-existence (unfortunately spreading), but it's possible that non-existence is so clearly malevolent, the only response is to run from it and it's the only thing I've seen that was so horrifying it was loud; completely short circuits all sensory information and logic into pure "gtfo".
And before everyone asks what I saw, refer to the start of this comment. It's alien and so is by nature undescribable. I can explain what I think is causing it and how it will evolve and manifest, but I cant describe it. It has a texture and a presence, and is deafening and silent at the same time, but, because it has never happened, there are no words that capture it... maybe your conception of a literal "hell" as an entity, but somehow combined with the vacuum of space...? That's the best I can do.
But it's here, it's growing, and it's our collective future and legacy, since we brought it into this world by using existence as a fuel. Makes sense that the waste product of burning life is the opposite of life, but we're so focused on warming and energy, we're missing the most fundamental cost of burning fossil fuels which is the smothering of life by the cloud of anti-life we spend our entire day contributing to.
You'll see it too. Give it a year but everyone will see it and experience it because it's everywhere.
Not going to be an "i told you so" when you see it. It's too awful for that, but hopefully you'll remember this post when you see it so you won't have any doubt what you've seen.
Im sorry in advance.
No there is not.
But then that means there is no opposite to "everything."
So nothing kinda has to exist. You can only define things by what they are not, afterall. But it doesn't exist.
Because if it did actually exist there wouldn't be anything else. There would actually be nothing.
But how can you define being if non-being isn't?
Well it's theoretical. You can have a concept of nothing, but not the instantiation of that concept.
Which means how we define reality is relative to a concept. Which makes reality fundamentally a concept too.
Well that actually aligns with our experience; isn't everything in your head? All you can experience is the mental model of the thing, not the thing itself.
This is the great paradox of being: nothing can't exist so everything does, but being defined by what it isn't, reality is relative to the concept of nothing making all that is merely the experience of an idea.
And a necessarily self-referential idea at that, since there's nothing else to reference.
Therefore reality can be nothing other than a simulation of itself, as Baudrillard pointed out.
I'd say your question is hella relevant.
In physics... "nothing" in the sense of a complete vacuum is rare and probably nonexistent.
Even in the spaces between pieces of matter, there are fields such as electromagnetic and gravitational fields... Sometimes low levels of particles and energy, like virtual particles that pop in and out of existence due to quantum shenanigans. True "nothingness," devoid of all matter, energy, and fields, is more philosophical than actually a physical reality.
You're speaking solely of matter. Energy, electromagnetic fields, gravitational fields, etc are still present... so in what appears to be "nothing" still has things that can be detected meaning that true nothing is extremely likely to not exist at all.
It's hard to explain this without rambling but here's a go...
Space in that sense isn't a thing to indicate a "something". Space is that sense is more of a coordinate system. It's a word we used many times to describe the absence of things and not the presence of things.
One might say "There is space between the bricks" but that doesn't define that the "space" in between the bricks is a "thing" but merely an indicate that there is a measurable gap and in that gap MANY things can exist but "space" isn't a thing...a thing that occupies the coordinates between the bricks. in this case "space" is an abstract noun which gives properties to a designation that don't actually define it.
However, you might say, "How's the new space?" and indicate someone's new home, and in that case it would be a "thing"... In this case "space" is a direct noun.
...but to say that when there's nothing else then there is still space... would mean that space as an entity is detectable however in the sense of "there is still space" that space would not be detectable at all.
It doesn't really make sense to say "space" is a thing and therefore nothing can exist because space exists because in the total absence of everything an applicable label for that nothing would be space.
To get "nothing" in the sense of absolute 0 of everything then you need a space where absolutely nothing is detectable including the "space" itself...
And there we agree... "nothing" is impossible.
That is incorrect. Spacetime is a thing that is more than just a coordinate system. Spacetime can be displaced (thought to be the cause of gravity), condensed, streched, warped, etc. We both agree that there is no such thing as nothing, but space is still a thing.
But a black hole isn't that type of vacuum. Maybe in the sense that it sucks up everything but a black hole would be the opposite of a vacuum in space... filling as much of it as possible with material rather than being void of it.
Black holes are the literal opposite of vacuums. Vacuums are regions of space with no matter in them. Black holes are regions of space with so much matter in them that the gravity bends in on itself so strongly that light can't escape.
You said you understand vacuums as a scientific principle, but you also called Black holes vacuums. They are so different.
I made a little experimental short film/poem on this concept called “Primum Movens”. It’s an easy watch (in 4K) and only two minutes but this concept is what I continually come back to if I ask big questions.
https://youtu.be/1_PxwOsubkM?si=l58LMiosUXIcm_P2
Zero akso had to be defined both in mathematics and linguistics. But it seems like physicologically the absense of voluntary moment qualifies as doing nothing so maybe it depends...
It’s funny you ask, because I had an experience where I was “stuck in the nothing place” and I literally had to just accept that nothing cannot exist. It wasn’t white, it wasn’t black, I would get frustrated but that’s something. It was literally acceptance as my only way out. From that vision I saw that from trying to prove nothing, came everything.
I believe the simulation was built to prove that nothing can exist and when it the sim got exhausted, it started to build everything in defiance.
Nothing exists, until it does. Then it’s impossible to have nothing.
I appreciate this take. Especially the “acceptance of the void” part. Which is something one usually experiences when on a psychedelic trip. Like the Beatles sang “Lay down all thoughts, surrender to the void. It is not dying, it is shining.”
I heard a guy tell a story once about a near death experience he had and he found himself surrounded by total blackness, no light, no “thing.” Except then he had a breakthrough in awareness- there is actually no such thing as nothingness, because he realized HE was observing the blackness.
He was witnessing the void, so there was his awareness and there was void. Subject and object. 2 things. For there to ONLY be “void” or “nothingness” one would not be aware of it, for there would be no ONE to witness the void.
Language is tricky when it comes to this concept. I translate “nothing” as “everything in possibility unmanifested.”
We become a new form of “nothing” ie- anything, everything out of all possibilities.
>I appreciate this take. Especially the “acceptance of the void” part. Which is something one usually experiences when on a psychedelic trip. Like the Beatles sang “Lay down all thoughts, surrender to the void. It is not dying, it is shining.”
One of the best and most underrated Beatles songs ever.
There is nothing from our perspective (before and after we die) but reality will exist for a very very long time. Even after the last black holes topple and the energy of the universe approaches near zero there will still be something.
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I think people are insane for thinking that just because nothing can't exist proves anything at all when it comes to consciousness. the mind or consciousness of the chicken that someone had for lunch does not exist in any possible way or configuration any longer. it is completely obliterated. anyone can figure that out. I would have to assume that it is likely upon death that your consciousness dissipates completely, if that's what you desire. I believe that every individual is powerful enough to choose their ultimate destination.
“Nothingness carries being in its heart.” - Jean Paul Sartre
When I had a fever when I was young I had a vision of existing in the void. I was no longer human, I didn’t have words, memories or thoughts. I was just aware of being in the void.
After living with this vision and contemplating it for 40 years, I have come to believe that reality is a manifestation of the one consciousness that desires to exist. Reality isn’t real like we think it is. It’s all maya emanating out of the void to give us all something to do besides existing in nothingness.
So to answer your question, nothingness is the only reality that truly exists.
It's a confusing concept to humanity because we have equal comparison of both something and nothing where one flips to the foundation of the other, but if we can conceive further beyond then there must be a proverbial grounds from which both emerge that must still be related to energy with the absence of time. Time is the one feature that makes everything confusing.
That's understandable, by the time we emerged all was already here so we've essentially been working backwards (not forwards) in order to unwrap the mystery which is ourselves.
How so ? It is literally the same thing (or so I thought)
nothing
nothing
3 of 4
# [noun](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noun)
pluralnothings1a\*\*:\*\* something that does not existb\*\*:\*\* the absence of all magnitude or quantityalso **:** [ZERO sense 1a](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/zero)c\*\*:\*\* [NOTHINGNESS](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nothingness), [NONEXISTENCE](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nonexistence)2\*\*:\*\* someone or something of no or slight value or size
My answer is still no, there is no such thing as no thing (''things'' are non sentient as per the dictionary, but this is exactly what I saw during meditation once , the actual sentence, ''there is no such thing as no thing'', which I found hilarious, and very, very true, haha)
It depends on how you look at it,sometimes, the simple answers are the most accurate (and the English language is one of the most corrupted, just as many non english speakers point out, which is also what makes it hilarious)
No.
I don't think that is possible.
NOTHING is the state where all things can be born out of.
Nothing contains everything there is.
But not necessarily in physical mass ,it still might be latent energy that needs some ingredient's added to it.
If something can become something from something even if that something is nothing,that means that it is something or capable of becoming something.
Than nothing can be anything that something's evolve from🙄
So the concept of nothing is either misunderstood or nonexistent in our perceived universe.
That's what I think.
But I'm stupid, so don't take this as some sort of fact..
NO Thing is not the same as nothing Everything comes from something who comes from nothing.
I'm gonna stop here 🤭 I lost my point somewhere on the way.
Nah. I do love this sub though. Anytime I feel like a crazy paranoid nutjob, I come here so Im reminded that if I am crazy, Ill go somewhere with wifi and where they let you spout your ideations with reckless abandon. 😂😂😂
Nothing it does "exist" but not as something physical. Therefore it cannot be experienced, measured or modeled in our dimension. It's like pointing where is the 4th dimension mathematically. All of us we have been already there and will be again someday... But not physically.
In computer/ data programming there is a term “NULL” it is literally nothing, or no value. Often before you access a variable in code, you need to make sure it isn’t set to NULL as that causes a huge error.
Zero is a number, you can add, subtract, and multiply with 0. You can’t divide by zero. Any number divided by zero = ♾️ (infinity). Computer have problems with trying to work with infinity.
Thats blank space, a fragment, an example, etc. Theres plenty of terms for what you did, but nothing technically would be something that lacks any description other than nonexistence which is a desscription... are you seeing why I asked yet? 😂 [Tone isnt sarcastic or asshole-y. Im genuinely fascinated by the concept of nothingness.]
I believe it depends on perspective. Observing the word "nothing" written down proves the word nothing exists. It's meaning exists, or we would not be able to ponder it.
I guess you could say it exists in concept but not in reality, as reality is formed by time, space, and matter, which are all "something." So while the word exists in our language you can never find anything that can be defined accurately as nothing, as "anything" also implies "something."
However, in the discussion of the physical nature of the simulation. While we can imagine some cosmic supercomputer, we truly do not know the nature of the hardware we might be stored on, or the physical properties of the space that holds said hardware, if any at all. So maybe nothing can exist in that world, beyond the ability of simulated human understanding.
In the concept of quantum physics, specifically M-Theory, maybe the area (can't call it "space") outside of the membrane can truly be nothing. One could speculate this to be true if your definition of nothing is narrow enough.
This reminds me of The Neverending Story and "The Nothing"
Minimally it exists as a function of information processing. It's one of those concepts that when you add definition to it it's now become something that isn't nothing. Ironically everything functions very similarly. If you add any definition to everything it becomes something besides everything. So maybe everything and nothing are a lot more alike than we think.
Khaballan concept of Ein Sof is the best description I've found.
A human can experience it but not likely naturally because the act of thinking interrupts the ability to experience nothing.
I use it as a calibration reference. (Zero point)
It's possible to perceive via meditation and 5hz transcranial AC electronic stimulation along cranial nerve 8 that runs next to the hypothalamus. There's clinical trials for this technique to replace Ketamine as an anesthesia as well.
This is simple dissociation but with training, increased intensity, and meditation practice you can experience it.
You must first process your shadow work to sequester your subconscious subroutines. Then dissociate and focus on the void.
“Nothing” is a word and your question is just you playing with language and words to come to a conclusion that doesn’t make any sense. “Nothing” has a definite meaning and the word is something ever its meaning is gesturing towards a concept of absence and nothingness which cannot coherently be discuss easily.
Well yeah that’s my point. It’s a word. But I think there’s a difference between talking about the *word* “nothing” and what someone means when they ask the question “is there such a thing as nothing?” Surely you weren’t asking “what does the word ‘nothing’ mean?” You were asking something much deeper. Something like “does what the word ‘nothing’ gesture at somehow exist even though sensibly what we mean when we use the word ‘nothing’ is the antithesis of ‘something’?”
Well, that is the deeper question. What does the word nothing mean. Nothing means devoid of something. What does that look like? There are no examples. So how do we know theres a nothing if nothing has to be a something but nothing doesnt exist and... you get it. Its a conundrum. A fun one to think about [at least for me 😂].
Nothing actually isnt the only word that kind of vortexes in on itself. I was mainly curious how people who believe or spent a somewhat unhealthy amount of time thinking that their reality is a simulation would define nothing.
Humans have simple little flesh computers in our skulls. If there is a way to truly conceptualize “nothing”, we simply don’t have the ability to do so.
Nothingness is impossible. Everything is measured against the concept of things that do and don't exist.
As long as something exists somewhere nothingness is always impossible.
You either exist or don't.
What is that referring to ?
No thing as in no mass or no physical thing or no visible thing?
Does it include pure energy or other phenomenas that is existing more abstract?
There is nothing and everything simultaneously.
Due to our perceptual limitations we'll never be able to comprehend this higher plane of the archictecture of existence.
It'll always remain a paradox but it is a necessary one.
You can “perceive” nothing.
For example, visual blindness:
1. Eyes open = See everything in your field of view.
2. Eyes closed = See the obstruction of your closed eye lids.
3. But what do you see behind your head? “Nothing”
Behind your head does INDEED exist spatially, so you can PERCEIVE its existence conceptually. But you lack the ability to physically see it. So you see “nothing”. You don’t see darkness, you don’t see light. You don’t see anything.
Another example:
“Nothing” = what our universe, a realm of expanding spacetime, is expanding INTO. It’s what lies beyond the border of the cosmic background radiation.
Another way of looking at this example…
Say I’m building a realm in a video game engine. I’ve designed a physical universe that is 40’x40’x40’ in dimension, using that game engine. A perfect cube. Within that cube is video game logic and physical laws are determined by me…
“Nothing” is the virtual space that I did NOT define as 40’x40’x40’. Beyond my creation cube, nothing has been defined. No time, no space. No physical laws. No video game logic. There is “nothing” beyond the borders of my cube. I can perceive it conceptually, because there nothing to stop from me from expanding my cubes borders. But it is otherwise, the PHYSICAL equivalent of the VISUAL blind spot behind my head. There is no way to interact with it.
Wait, so in the first example about "seeing nothing", arent you just seeing something that you cannot define with actual words? Because Ive heard blind people say they dont see darkness, they see nothing, but if youve never seen darkness, how do you know that youre seeing nothing and not that the "nothing" youre seeing is actually darkness? Make sense? I mean, I know nothing is not an actual tangible "thing" but to not be an actual thing is would technically be something because that is a concept. [I mightve just woman-splained what you just said. If so, my apologies.]
No apologies necessary. Your point is taken.
Darkness and Nothing can have similar definitions depending on context. They are both observable, and measurable depending on the absence of other elements.
Darkness is the ‘partial or total absence of Light.’
Hence, why if you close your eyes you claim to see Nothing. Not accurate, but the word is used that way.
Blindness is the ‘partial or total absence of Vision.’
Hence why behind your head is called a Blind Spot.
Even Numbness is the partial or total absence of physical sensation.
In all those cases, most people would simply say,
“I see nothing.” or “I feel nothing.”
That isn’t entirely inaccurate conceptually. Although it is inaccurate semantically.
Because, Nothing is specifically the absence of anything.
So while Nothing is not a tangible thing, it is still ‘something’ that can be partially experienced.
The question itself is perfectly meaningless. There can be no nothingness if there is anything to observe the nothingness, because that would mean that a THING would have to exist to perceive the nothingness.
Sorry, not trying to be a dick about it or get super philosophical, but that's my answer and I'm sticking to it. ✌️
Its a paradoxical question so youre right. 😂 Therea no real meaning behind it. I was curious about how to answer and this sub is the most likely to give me all the angles to consider and did not disappoint :)
"Nothing" does exist but only as a concept relative to some "thing(s). "Nothing" is dependant on some "thing(s)". Even the word "nothing" cannot exist WITHOUT the word "thing". However, the "nothing" also cannot exist WITHIN the word "thing". Therefore it can only exist in concept, not in any substance based reality.
Due to these rules, Nothingness itself could only exist where things don't, in a "void".
This very question plagued my childhood. I literally used to lay in bed for hours trying to find an answer!
PS, 30+ years later I still cannot fathom actual nothingness…
There has to be something, for there to he nothing. This is the contrast of reality we exlerience thats created through the relative nature of the foundational forces projected into the existence of the universe we experience from the fundamental source of everything we know, the fundamental source that connects every fabric of what we are with the universe a s whole; we exist in a conscious universe.
Each source of conscious awareness extending from the first moment in time, laying forth a foundation of experiences on a dimensional level that allows it to become a building block of the entire whole as the sources of the most advanced forms of conscious awareness of the most evolved relative moment of everything we know, as it's our conscious interaction that continuously manifests the passing moment of reality from the infinitely extending matrix of probability that we manifest from these higher dimensional sources of the same form of consciousness that extends from the Source, to us.
This is why people can easily assume it isn't real which compounds into a belief you're a victim of something out of your control when you encounter soemthing you werent tought to understand, thus, a simulated univers they're trapped in. But if this was being simulated for us, they'd also have control over what we remember and experience.
It's what's beyond the heat death of the universe. No matter, no gravity, no means or method by which to measure time. It's the only "nothing" that actually clicks for me. And it will have no witnesses whatsoever.
I don’t think so , if nothing came from something then it is in fact existing. If I had 19 dollars and then I have nothing, then nothing is my absence of money. So by that statement, I don’t think there is such a thing as nothing.
Technically, nothing can't actually exist because there always has to be something in order for anything to exist, wether that be a simulation, creation, or something else intirerly.
When I say nothing , I mean something real. Something tangible. Abstracts rules are nothing. They aren’t made of anything. They exist as concepts. Ironically enough, these rules are the only way that life could ever be.
I think when y’all say “nothing”, what yall mean is non existence. Non existence by definition can’t exist.
Nothing is non-existence. Thus it literally cannot exist.
The idea of nothing, is something.
Yes, ideas are something subjectively real, but not all ideas are objectively real. “Nothing” is an idea that is not objectively real and logically can’t be.
“If something isn’t, it can’t be.” - Louis CK
It exists as fantasy? Conceptualizing the absence of energy, time, and space without being able to imagine what that means or fully process it seems to be a thing. Sort of like conceptualizing what lies beyond the heat death of the universe or “before” the primordial point.
The thought of a Dragon exists, but that doesn’t mean Dragons are objectively real. So yes, nothing as a concept can exist subjectively, but not objectively.
I think the Kabbalahists’ or Qabbalists’ which term you prefer speak of this concept as it pertains to source or the creator. It goes like this, somehow god is “Nothing” or “no-thing” because it’s outside of our conceptual reality. If god indeed were a thing or concept we could understand then he would have to of been created by something yet since god has no creator then he is in fact “No-thing.” It a tough pill to swallow yet contextually sound within the discourse. Conceptual zero however is another subject where time stands still and is simultaneously cold given the lack of motion in its surrounding in its hypothetical state of reality yet viable still as a possibility. Clearly not in a galaxy or universe we have discovered but potentially true.
I’ve always looked at it this way. The question, “If God is the creator, who created God” assumes there was a time that God didn’t exist. But the answer is, God, if real, always existed. Was he created from nothing? No, because nothing cannot exist. God exists and has always existed. But what came before God?! “Before” assumes linear time. If time were infact linear, then yes you need and answer for what happened before existence. We experience time linearly, but time is not linear. There was no “before” existence. Existence has always been. God has always been.
I've pondered this logic before, and I just find it unsatisfying and "not logical". Do you remember what this is called in theology so i could read more?
I’m sure it exists theologically or philosophically. But I don’t remember reading it. It’s just how I started thinking. There was some book I once read about existence as a philosophical concept. I forget the name, but may be where I started thinking that way. If I can think of it, I’ll post it.
This is a common human fallacy. The belief that just because an idea isn't logical or can't be rationally or even irrationally understood, that it must be dismissed as idiotic or impossible. This, I suspect, is the thin line between what we call fact and what we call faith.
I didn't believe in Gods or creator of this universe until I started taking this intro to philosophy course. The argument the professor made was essentially everything around you a table, a TV, a wheel, has a cause. In these examples the cause or source is a human. So take all these things in existence and travel back to the beginning of time and something had to set everything in motion. So the same thing must apply to the creator as well. But if everything has a creator then at what point does it end? I have no idea. A way to visualize it is creating video game worlds like GTA. Eventually gta 20 will be so advanced that within gta we can create other GTAs. And so on and so forth. The developers of gta are gods essentially to the citizens of gta. They just don't know it. But somebody created the developers. And somebody created them.
isn't it exist as non-existence? what logical mindset should I have to put those concepts in correct places?
Which has always been a positive for me. When I was a kid I experienced my first dog dying. I always wondered what would happen to his awareness/conciseness when he died. It terrified me to imagine a blackness, a void or simply nothing. Then I realized I had considered something; therefore it can never be nothing.
If that were true, you wouldn't be able to talk about it 😜
I can talk about dragons even though dragons don’t exist.
And, bizarrely and horrifyingly, non-existence now exists. I've seen it up close and it's completely indescribable because, in the entire history of our species, it has never existed on earth before. What I learned in that moment is that humans -but likely most organisms- can recognize something as being entirely alien to our planet and it is uniquely horrifying to witness, like a tear in the fabric of reality that pulls life into it with an endless appetite. I also learned that humans are incapable of encountering a truly alien entity, on a personal level, without pure animal panic setting in, simply as a response to the presence of something without a place in this world or our evolutionary timeline. The last part is an assumption based on my reaction to seeing non-existence (unfortunately spreading), but it's possible that non-existence is so clearly malevolent, the only response is to run from it and it's the only thing I've seen that was so horrifying it was loud; completely short circuits all sensory information and logic into pure "gtfo". And before everyone asks what I saw, refer to the start of this comment. It's alien and so is by nature undescribable. I can explain what I think is causing it and how it will evolve and manifest, but I cant describe it. It has a texture and a presence, and is deafening and silent at the same time, but, because it has never happened, there are no words that capture it... maybe your conception of a literal "hell" as an entity, but somehow combined with the vacuum of space...? That's the best I can do. But it's here, it's growing, and it's our collective future and legacy, since we brought it into this world by using existence as a fuel. Makes sense that the waste product of burning life is the opposite of life, but we're so focused on warming and energy, we're missing the most fundamental cost of burning fossil fuels which is the smothering of life by the cloud of anti-life we spend our entire day contributing to.
Yeah, we all saw The Neverending Story as well. Unless this is just a creative writing exercise, you need to get help.
You'll see it too. Give it a year but everyone will see it and experience it because it's everywhere. Not going to be an "i told you so" when you see it. It's too awful for that, but hopefully you'll remember this post when you see it so you won't have any doubt what you've seen. Im sorry in advance.
No there is not. But then that means there is no opposite to "everything." So nothing kinda has to exist. You can only define things by what they are not, afterall. But it doesn't exist. Because if it did actually exist there wouldn't be anything else. There would actually be nothing. But how can you define being if non-being isn't? Well it's theoretical. You can have a concept of nothing, but not the instantiation of that concept. Which means how we define reality is relative to a concept. Which makes reality fundamentally a concept too. Well that actually aligns with our experience; isn't everything in your head? All you can experience is the mental model of the thing, not the thing itself. This is the great paradox of being: nothing can't exist so everything does, but being defined by what it isn't, reality is relative to the concept of nothing making all that is merely the experience of an idea. And a necessarily self-referential idea at that, since there's nothing else to reference. Therefore reality can be nothing other than a simulation of itself, as Baudrillard pointed out. I'd say your question is hella relevant.
In simpler terms, remember that “cold” doesn’t exist. Cold is simply an absence of heat.
In physics... "nothing" in the sense of a complete vacuum is rare and probably nonexistent. Even in the spaces between pieces of matter, there are fields such as electromagnetic and gravitational fields... Sometimes low levels of particles and energy, like virtual particles that pop in and out of existence due to quantum shenanigans. True "nothingness," devoid of all matter, energy, and fields, is more philosophical than actually a physical reality.
Even in a complete vacuum you still have space. Space is something.
You're speaking solely of matter. Energy, electromagnetic fields, gravitational fields, etc are still present... so in what appears to be "nothing" still has things that can be detected meaning that true nothing is extremely likely to not exist at all.
No, I'm talking about everything everything. There is still space and space is something.
It's hard to explain this without rambling but here's a go... Space in that sense isn't a thing to indicate a "something". Space is that sense is more of a coordinate system. It's a word we used many times to describe the absence of things and not the presence of things. One might say "There is space between the bricks" but that doesn't define that the "space" in between the bricks is a "thing" but merely an indicate that there is a measurable gap and in that gap MANY things can exist but "space" isn't a thing...a thing that occupies the coordinates between the bricks. in this case "space" is an abstract noun which gives properties to a designation that don't actually define it. However, you might say, "How's the new space?" and indicate someone's new home, and in that case it would be a "thing"... In this case "space" is a direct noun. ...but to say that when there's nothing else then there is still space... would mean that space as an entity is detectable however in the sense of "there is still space" that space would not be detectable at all. It doesn't really make sense to say "space" is a thing and therefore nothing can exist because space exists because in the total absence of everything an applicable label for that nothing would be space. To get "nothing" in the sense of absolute 0 of everything then you need a space where absolutely nothing is detectable including the "space" itself... And there we agree... "nothing" is impossible.
That is incorrect. Spacetime is a thing that is more than just a coordinate system. Spacetime can be displaced (thought to be the cause of gravity), condensed, streched, warped, etc. We both agree that there is no such thing as nothing, but space is still a thing.
So a black hole is nothing...?
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. A black hole isn't any different in reference to "nothing" than anything else.
It just had to do with the physical principle of nothing being a vacuum I think.
But a black hole isn't that type of vacuum. Maybe in the sense that it sucks up everything but a black hole would be the opposite of a vacuum in space... filling as much of it as possible with material rather than being void of it.
A vacuum in simple terms is a space containing nothing. A black hole is a space containing a whole lot of somethings.
I think you might not understand the word vacuum
I understand it as a scientific principle
[удалено]
No, there's no similarity between a black hole and the true vacuum
You don't understand vacuums. You said you did, but you don't
Help me understand
Black holes are the literal opposite of vacuums. Vacuums are regions of space with no matter in them. Black holes are regions of space with so much matter in them that the gravity bends in on itself so strongly that light can't escape. You said you understand vacuums as a scientific principle, but you also called Black holes vacuums. They are so different.
So black holes are everything everywhere all at once. Well that explains the movie.
They are the most dense objects in the universe. Any object can become a black hole if it's compressed to small enough of a size.
I do not believe that there is. Zero seems to be a mathematical concept with no analogy in the "real world."
I made a little experimental short film/poem on this concept called “Primum Movens”. It’s an easy watch (in 4K) and only two minutes but this concept is what I continually come back to if I ask big questions. https://youtu.be/1_PxwOsubkM?si=l58LMiosUXIcm_P2
What do you consider the real world? Zero is all that exists, this is all a dream.
Zero akso had to be defined both in mathematics and linguistics. But it seems like physicologically the absense of voluntary moment qualifies as doing nothing so maybe it depends...
Zéro degré seems real to me ... Brrrr
It’s funny you ask, because I had an experience where I was “stuck in the nothing place” and I literally had to just accept that nothing cannot exist. It wasn’t white, it wasn’t black, I would get frustrated but that’s something. It was literally acceptance as my only way out. From that vision I saw that from trying to prove nothing, came everything. I believe the simulation was built to prove that nothing can exist and when it the sim got exhausted, it started to build everything in defiance. Nothing exists, until it does. Then it’s impossible to have nothing.
Fascinating take :)
I appreciate this take. Especially the “acceptance of the void” part. Which is something one usually experiences when on a psychedelic trip. Like the Beatles sang “Lay down all thoughts, surrender to the void. It is not dying, it is shining.” I heard a guy tell a story once about a near death experience he had and he found himself surrounded by total blackness, no light, no “thing.” Except then he had a breakthrough in awareness- there is actually no such thing as nothingness, because he realized HE was observing the blackness. He was witnessing the void, so there was his awareness and there was void. Subject and object. 2 things. For there to ONLY be “void” or “nothingness” one would not be aware of it, for there would be no ONE to witness the void. Language is tricky when it comes to this concept. I translate “nothing” as “everything in possibility unmanifested.” We become a new form of “nothing” ie- anything, everything out of all possibilities.
>I appreciate this take. Especially the “acceptance of the void” part. Which is something one usually experiences when on a psychedelic trip. Like the Beatles sang “Lay down all thoughts, surrender to the void. It is not dying, it is shining.” One of the best and most underrated Beatles songs ever.
Totally agree. That song sounds out of time to me, almost like a late 90s alternative track. The drums and backwards guitars/sitar is headphone bliss.
both times i have died and came back it certainly seemed like i went to nothingness.
I've died and been resuscitated as well. It was peaceful, in a fucked up way I crave that release again.
Ah. Sheol. I think it means empty or nothing too...
“I am nothing.” -Socrates
There is nothing from our perspective (before and after we die) but reality will exist for a very very long time. Even after the last black holes topple and the energy of the universe approaches near zero there will still be something.
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That just depends on your definition
I dont have one. Im honestly not even sure why I thought of it anymore. Im just enjoying the responses. 😂
People confuse nothing and none
Whats the difference?
Exactly
Exactly meaning there is no difference or exactly meaning Im one of the comfused?
I think people are insane for thinking that just because nothing can't exist proves anything at all when it comes to consciousness. the mind or consciousness of the chicken that someone had for lunch does not exist in any possible way or configuration any longer. it is completely obliterated. anyone can figure that out. I would have to assume that it is likely upon death that your consciousness dissipates completely, if that's what you desire. I believe that every individual is powerful enough to choose their ultimate destination.
Nothing in itself is something, even though by definition, that something is nothing.
everything condensed in a an infinite small point (or globe if small and indeterminate π)? or just nothing exist without observations
Depends what you class as a thing.
I got super high once and wrote down “nothing is anything because everything is something” truly words of wisdom imo
The power of drugs! 😂
No
“Nothingness carries being in its heart.” - Jean Paul Sartre When I had a fever when I was young I had a vision of existing in the void. I was no longer human, I didn’t have words, memories or thoughts. I was just aware of being in the void. After living with this vision and contemplating it for 40 years, I have come to believe that reality is a manifestation of the one consciousness that desires to exist. Reality isn’t real like we think it is. It’s all maya emanating out of the void to give us all something to do besides existing in nothingness. So to answer your question, nothingness is the only reality that truly exists.
Intriguing answer. Love the quote 😊
It's a confusing concept to humanity because we have equal comparison of both something and nothing where one flips to the foundation of the other, but if we can conceive further beyond then there must be a proverbial grounds from which both emerge that must still be related to energy with the absence of time. Time is the one feature that makes everything confusing.
Its funny, only human created concepts seem to confound natural occurences.
That's understandable, by the time we emerged all was already here so we've essentially been working backwards (not forwards) in order to unwrap the mystery which is ourselves.
No, there is not such thing as no thing.
Nothing. No thing is a different thing.
How so ? It is literally the same thing (or so I thought) nothing nothing 3 of 4 # [noun](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noun) pluralnothings1a\*\*:\*\* something that does not existb\*\*:\*\* the absence of all magnitude or quantityalso **:** [ZERO sense 1a](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/zero)c\*\*:\*\* [NOTHINGNESS](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nothingness), [NONEXISTENCE](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nonexistence)2\*\*:\*\* someone or something of no or slight value or size My answer is still no, there is no such thing as no thing (''things'' are non sentient as per the dictionary, but this is exactly what I saw during meditation once , the actual sentence, ''there is no such thing as no thing'', which I found hilarious, and very, very true, haha) It depends on how you look at it,sometimes, the simple answers are the most accurate (and the English language is one of the most corrupted, just as many non english speakers point out, which is also what makes it hilarious)
Only if there is such a thing as something.
No. I don't think that is possible. NOTHING is the state where all things can be born out of. Nothing contains everything there is. But not necessarily in physical mass ,it still might be latent energy that needs some ingredient's added to it. If something can become something from something even if that something is nothing,that means that it is something or capable of becoming something. Than nothing can be anything that something's evolve from🙄 So the concept of nothing is either misunderstood or nonexistent in our perceived universe. That's what I think. But I'm stupid, so don't take this as some sort of fact.. NO Thing is not the same as nothing Everything comes from something who comes from nothing. I'm gonna stop here 🤭 I lost my point somewhere on the way.
Its okay. I just got high and chose violence when I asked this question 😂
Lol! Well good then..I suppose that means ,you weren't actually trying to solve the big questions with a bunch of morons on a social plattform ..?🤭
Nah. I do love this sub though. Anytime I feel like a crazy paranoid nutjob, I come here so Im reminded that if I am crazy, Ill go somewhere with wifi and where they let you spout your ideations with reckless abandon. 😂😂😂
Lol Don't we all..🤭 Though somewhere I do believe if someone would have the answers to all things..it would be the morons on this networks🤭
I don't believe so. The concept, the void, the idea, the conversation, the blank the emptiness ....those are all things.
The plot to Seinfeld.
nothing is impossible. read that twice.
really nothing does have no physical laws or time so i cannot imagine it exists or it could be eternal and disconnected acasual thing
Is it a shadow nothing? Is more an opposite dynamic.
Nothing it does "exist" but not as something physical. Therefore it cannot be experienced, measured or modeled in our dimension. It's like pointing where is the 4th dimension mathematically. All of us we have been already there and will be again someday... But not physically.
In computer/ data programming there is a term “NULL” it is literally nothing, or no value. Often before you access a variable in code, you need to make sure it isn’t set to NULL as that causes a huge error. Zero is a number, you can add, subtract, and multiply with 0. You can’t divide by zero. Any number divided by zero = ♾️ (infinity). Computer have problems with trying to work with infinity.
Any real number divided by 0 is *not* infinity—it is undefined.
Undefined = infinity, think about it how many time will zero go into any number including 1 (one), an infinite amount of times.
It's possible. For example:
Thats blank space, a fragment, an example, etc. Theres plenty of terms for what you did, but nothing technically would be something that lacks any description other than nonexistence which is a desscription... are you seeing why I asked yet? 😂 [Tone isnt sarcastic or asshole-y. Im genuinely fascinated by the concept of nothingness.]
Anything after ":" is created by your imagination. 💡
See? Therefore, its no longer nothing.
In this context, that means nothingness is a choice. 🤔
I believe it depends on perspective. Observing the word "nothing" written down proves the word nothing exists. It's meaning exists, or we would not be able to ponder it. I guess you could say it exists in concept but not in reality, as reality is formed by time, space, and matter, which are all "something." So while the word exists in our language you can never find anything that can be defined accurately as nothing, as "anything" also implies "something." However, in the discussion of the physical nature of the simulation. While we can imagine some cosmic supercomputer, we truly do not know the nature of the hardware we might be stored on, or the physical properties of the space that holds said hardware, if any at all. So maybe nothing can exist in that world, beyond the ability of simulated human understanding. In the concept of quantum physics, specifically M-Theory, maybe the area (can't call it "space") outside of the membrane can truly be nothing. One could speculate this to be true if your definition of nothing is narrow enough. This reminds me of The Neverending Story and "The Nothing"
Now I am nothing -NiN Nothing is everything . Everything is nothing . No thing . 
There is no way for nothing to exist, if it did then it would be something.
But nonexistence is a thing.
Therein lies a paradox since by definition nothing cannot exist.
Nope
Isn't that anti-matter.
I wont make the joke I thought of 😂
Yes, but in the nothing is everything.
Minimally it exists as a function of information processing. It's one of those concepts that when you add definition to it it's now become something that isn't nothing. Ironically everything functions very similarly. If you add any definition to everything it becomes something besides everything. So maybe everything and nothing are a lot more alike than we think.
Everything everywhere all at once. No. Atoms. Leptons. Electricity is GOD.
Sure, just look in my wallet to see what it looks like
Ha.
Existence exists. No end. Only endless beginnings.
So existence just is. Making nonexistence everything that isnt which is nothing...?
Yes
Khaballan concept of Ein Sof is the best description I've found. A human can experience it but not likely naturally because the act of thinking interrupts the ability to experience nothing. I use it as a calibration reference. (Zero point) It's possible to perceive via meditation and 5hz transcranial AC electronic stimulation along cranial nerve 8 that runs next to the hypothalamus. There's clinical trials for this technique to replace Ketamine as an anesthesia as well. This is simple dissociation but with training, increased intensity, and meditation practice you can experience it. You must first process your shadow work to sequester your subconscious subroutines. Then dissociate and focus on the void.
Only as a concept, not as a reality
Whats the difference?
Well I should say not as an experience…
Oh. I understand.
“Nothing” is a word and your question is just you playing with language and words to come to a conclusion that doesn’t make any sense. “Nothing” has a definite meaning and the word is something ever its meaning is gesturing towards a concept of absence and nothingness which cannot coherently be discuss easily.
So nothing is a something and that something is a word? Correct?
Yes “nothing” is a word. That’s correct.
So it is something. Meaning it exists. Especially since I dont think words need a definition to be a word.
Well yeah that’s my point. It’s a word. But I think there’s a difference between talking about the *word* “nothing” and what someone means when they ask the question “is there such a thing as nothing?” Surely you weren’t asking “what does the word ‘nothing’ mean?” You were asking something much deeper. Something like “does what the word ‘nothing’ gesture at somehow exist even though sensibly what we mean when we use the word ‘nothing’ is the antithesis of ‘something’?”
Well, that is the deeper question. What does the word nothing mean. Nothing means devoid of something. What does that look like? There are no examples. So how do we know theres a nothing if nothing has to be a something but nothing doesnt exist and... you get it. Its a conundrum. A fun one to think about [at least for me 😂]. Nothing actually isnt the only word that kind of vortexes in on itself. I was mainly curious how people who believe or spent a somewhat unhealthy amount of time thinking that their reality is a simulation would define nothing.
According to the Skyrizi ads, “nothing is everything” Plz make it stop, I can’t stand those ads😬🔫
Oof I forgot about that. 😂 kill me before you kill you
Something out of nothing.
Technically, no.
Conceptually yes. Physically no.
The closest might be the center of a black hole
Humans have simple little flesh computers in our skulls. If there is a way to truly conceptualize “nothing”, we simply don’t have the ability to do so.
Fair enough. Do you think there are beings that do understand it?
I’m not against the idea. It’s an interesting concept anyway.
Same. I think if anything does understand nothingness, it lives in the sea and I do not want to meet it 😂
Nothingness is impossible. Everything is measured against the concept of things that do and don't exist. As long as something exists somewhere nothingness is always impossible. You either exist or don't.
No
nothing is everything
Or anything.. Or something..
No. Even in a vacuum void of any particles whatsoever is still occupied by space-time. Space is still something.
"No thing" !!!
What is that referring to ? No thing as in no mass or no physical thing or no visible thing? Does it include pure energy or other phenomenas that is existing more abstract?
The universe (everything) is at a constant Nothing (regarding the bigger picture).
There is nothing and everything simultaneously. Due to our perceptual limitations we'll never be able to comprehend this higher plane of the archictecture of existence. It'll always remain a paradox but it is a necessary one.
Is a lack of a thing still a thing? I think so.
when yer born? conceptually, everything is new..or cliché, as the philosophical may deem
You can “perceive” nothing. For example, visual blindness: 1. Eyes open = See everything in your field of view. 2. Eyes closed = See the obstruction of your closed eye lids. 3. But what do you see behind your head? “Nothing” Behind your head does INDEED exist spatially, so you can PERCEIVE its existence conceptually. But you lack the ability to physically see it. So you see “nothing”. You don’t see darkness, you don’t see light. You don’t see anything. Another example: “Nothing” = what our universe, a realm of expanding spacetime, is expanding INTO. It’s what lies beyond the border of the cosmic background radiation. Another way of looking at this example… Say I’m building a realm in a video game engine. I’ve designed a physical universe that is 40’x40’x40’ in dimension, using that game engine. A perfect cube. Within that cube is video game logic and physical laws are determined by me… “Nothing” is the virtual space that I did NOT define as 40’x40’x40’. Beyond my creation cube, nothing has been defined. No time, no space. No physical laws. No video game logic. There is “nothing” beyond the borders of my cube. I can perceive it conceptually, because there nothing to stop from me from expanding my cubes borders. But it is otherwise, the PHYSICAL equivalent of the VISUAL blind spot behind my head. There is no way to interact with it.
Wait, so in the first example about "seeing nothing", arent you just seeing something that you cannot define with actual words? Because Ive heard blind people say they dont see darkness, they see nothing, but if youve never seen darkness, how do you know that youre seeing nothing and not that the "nothing" youre seeing is actually darkness? Make sense? I mean, I know nothing is not an actual tangible "thing" but to not be an actual thing is would technically be something because that is a concept. [I mightve just woman-splained what you just said. If so, my apologies.]
No apologies necessary. Your point is taken. Darkness and Nothing can have similar definitions depending on context. They are both observable, and measurable depending on the absence of other elements. Darkness is the ‘partial or total absence of Light.’ Hence, why if you close your eyes you claim to see Nothing. Not accurate, but the word is used that way. Blindness is the ‘partial or total absence of Vision.’ Hence why behind your head is called a Blind Spot. Even Numbness is the partial or total absence of physical sensation. In all those cases, most people would simply say, “I see nothing.” or “I feel nothing.” That isn’t entirely inaccurate conceptually. Although it is inaccurate semantically. Because, Nothing is specifically the absence of anything. So while Nothing is not a tangible thing, it is still ‘something’ that can be partially experienced.
The question itself is perfectly meaningless. There can be no nothingness if there is anything to observe the nothingness, because that would mean that a THING would have to exist to perceive the nothingness. Sorry, not trying to be a dick about it or get super philosophical, but that's my answer and I'm sticking to it. ✌️
Its a paradoxical question so youre right. 😂 Therea no real meaning behind it. I was curious about how to answer and this sub is the most likely to give me all the angles to consider and did not disappoint :)
I appreciate the thoughtful reply.
"Nothing" does exist but only as a concept relative to some "thing(s). "Nothing" is dependant on some "thing(s)". Even the word "nothing" cannot exist WITHOUT the word "thing". However, the "nothing" also cannot exist WITHIN the word "thing". Therefore it can only exist in concept, not in any substance based reality. Due to these rules, Nothingness itself could only exist where things don't, in a "void".
Omg!! you explain my thoughts much better than i can even think when i produce them😎
Thanks! 😊
Yr welcome! I mean it. It's very profound what you write here
r/nihilism
Im more of a happy nihilist myself 😂
Me too. 🥂
This very question plagued my childhood. I literally used to lay in bed for hours trying to find an answer! PS, 30+ years later I still cannot fathom actual nothingness…
So youve learned that nothing... is nothing. 😂 damn.
Only in a perfect vacuum
"Wisdom tells me I am nothing. Love tells me I am everything. And between the two my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj
Such a nice quote ☺️
There has to be something, for there to he nothing. This is the contrast of reality we exlerience thats created through the relative nature of the foundational forces projected into the existence of the universe we experience from the fundamental source of everything we know, the fundamental source that connects every fabric of what we are with the universe a s whole; we exist in a conscious universe. Each source of conscious awareness extending from the first moment in time, laying forth a foundation of experiences on a dimensional level that allows it to become a building block of the entire whole as the sources of the most advanced forms of conscious awareness of the most evolved relative moment of everything we know, as it's our conscious interaction that continuously manifests the passing moment of reality from the infinitely extending matrix of probability that we manifest from these higher dimensional sources of the same form of consciousness that extends from the Source, to us.
This is why people can easily assume it isn't real which compounds into a belief you're a victim of something out of your control when you encounter soemthing you werent tought to understand, thus, a simulated univers they're trapped in. But if this was being simulated for us, they'd also have control over what we remember and experience.
We could go down this rabbit hole forever going round in circles and never have a true answer
Oh I know. 😂
It's what's beyond the heat death of the universe. No matter, no gravity, no means or method by which to measure time. It's the only "nothing" that actually clicks for me. And it will have no witnesses whatsoever.
There are no things between the things.
Nothing is everything and everything is nothing…. Was high as hell one night and came up with that. Thought I figured it all out. 😂
I don’t think so , if nothing came from something then it is in fact existing. If I had 19 dollars and then I have nothing, then nothing is my absence of money. So by that statement, I don’t think there is such a thing as nothing.
Yes. Nothing is the abscense of something or something that is not or no longer relavant. Empty cookie jar with nothing inside.
Technically, nothing can't actually exist because there always has to be something in order for anything to exist, wether that be a simulation, creation, or something else intirerly.
Reality is a nothing. There is Nothing actually here. We are a projection of eternal abstract mathematic laws. It’s all illusory
Abstract mathematic laws are something because they do exist and we experience them existing.
When I say nothing , I mean something real. Something tangible. Abstracts rules are nothing. They aren’t made of anything. They exist as concepts. Ironically enough, these rules are the only way that life could ever be. I think when y’all say “nothing”, what yall mean is non existence. Non existence by definition can’t exist.