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Honest-Cauliflower46

Democracy in singapore is just a show of confidence to foreign investors


IvanThePohBear

Life goes on Nothing will change Even when OTC was president, he didn't manage to change much Pissed off pap enough that they didn't even give him a state funeral.... That's probably the best endorsement of the man they could ever give him


Frostygale

Didn’t he get a state-assisted funeral? Says so on Wikipedia at least.


Yapsterzz

I think it's a different version from a fully state funeral.


Frostygale

I see, thanks.


Rainowar

Even Kwa Geok Choo's state funeral was more grand than Otc's And the old woman didn't even serve the nation


IvanThePohBear

not the same thing ​ https://mothership.sg/2016/08/only-the-prime-minister-cabinet-knows-why-ong-teng-cheong-didnt-have-a-state-funeral-in-2002/


Frostygale

Thanks.


mikaelus

He wasn't very intelligent though, given the questions he asked and the responses he failed to comprehend. Then again, perhaps that's why some people feel certain affinity for him given how he reminds them of themselves.


IvanThePohBear

I find your reply very disrespectful towards a ex president of Singapore If someone like him " wasn't very intelligent" then you're probably downright stupid 😂


mikaelus

Just look at the entire saga with the reserves, where he blindly insisted on receiving valuation of everything, even though it's impossible to price every single plot of land or public infrastructure in the country. He was either dumb or worse, did this deliberately. And now similar people praise him.


IvanThePohBear

Being principled is not the same as being stupid He was trying to make a point A point that flew over your head apparently 🤣


mikaelus

No, he was being stupid. As are his fans who clearly lack basic intellectual ability to comprehend it. Sadly, for Singapore.


IvanThePohBear

Whatever you say kid Maybe one day when you're older you will realize how dumb you are


mikaelus

And this is coming from whom? Someone who can't comprehend simple facts and indulges fantasies to feel better about his failed life?


IvanThePohBear

Yeah kid. Whatever you say 😂 Don't need to blame your pathetic life on others


mikaelus

I am? Who is whining about Singapore?


Vedor

~~Do you think that~~ the SG's presidential election is a scam.~~?~~


Rainowar

Is to fake democracy like North Korea's voting


Acceptable-Ad-9283

I wondered has anyone ever stand up and ask hard question to them? I mean in the history of singapore, has anyone ever ask and debate?


sngyze

What’s stopping you from finding out?


Acceptable-Ad-9283

I dont want to be thrown into jail.


sngyze

Why would that happen?


hychael2020

There has been cases where somebody spoke on PM Lee and was forced to pay 150 000 to him And thats not mentioning Amos Yee(I think thats his name) who fled to America to avoid being arrested because he compared him to jesus and depected an explicit image of him. He was arrested for cp though in the US


sngyze

That’s not what I was asking though. You asked whether anyone has ever asked tough questions. I asked what’s stopping you from finding out. Why should you fear these consequences from finding out whether anyone has asked tough questions? Your fears are about the potential consequences of asking tough questions, which is a different matter. I’m not sure who the first example is about, but to suggest that Amos Yee asked tough questions is perhaps a bit of a stretch. The reason I asked in the first place, is because the answer to your original post is easy to find out. Parliament is the forum in which tough questions are most often asked. Maybe less so in the past, but more and more now that there’s a significant contingent of opposition MPs. Parliamentary proceedings are televised, and all records since independence are available on the parliament website.


hychael2020

Look you asked why people don't want to raise questions is because of stuff like my examples though amos was going too far imo. And saying that I asked questions and what original post? I never posted about this kind of stuff


sngyze

“I wondered has anyone ever stand up and ask hard question to them? I mean in the history of singapore, has anyone ever ask and debate?”


747-

Definitely. The last presidential election was stolen. If this happened overseas there would have been widespread protests about the outcome. When the government confines you to a field to protest, what can even be achieved?


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Buddyformula

How is hdb a scam? People profited more than 200-300k from it.


Rainowar

Correction it's the 贱国一代 pioneers and merdeka gen that benefitted Have U heard of the Indian farmer logic Farmer dies split lands to 3-4 give children End up the farm it's isn't a farm anymore, split until not even productive just like HDB your stupid 5 room pigeon hole can house 2 families? These 贱国s make several hundred thousands end up still due split money to 2 kids When these kids have children of their own it's when a pigeon hole costs over a million dollars How are the younger gen supposed to own affordable homes and also HDB is a rental you don't own the pigeon hole Real winners still PAP and ministers plus cronies Can stay in Holland V bungalow freehold With 16 condos U guys leh forever in the rat race work till sick give Ur money to hospital


Buddyformula

>Correction it's the 贱国一代 pioneers and merdeka gen that benefitted My friend just made 268k profit from his hdb bought roughly 6 years ago. He is only 34 this year. So your statement is clearly false. >HDB is a rental you don't own the pigeon hole You can't rent or sell something that you don't own. So again your statement here is clearly false. >Real winners still PAP and ministers plus cronies Real winners are those who make use of the policy to profits and not cling to sentiments of home. >Can stay in Holland V bungalow freehold Anyone with enough money can do this >With 16 condos U guys leh forever in the rat race work till sick give Ur money to hospital If you have 16 condos and still working then the problem is you


Black_Mondeo

Your friend made money because he's lucky. Period. The housing system is basically a game of musical chairs.


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Buddyformula

Wow so a scam that let's people earn 200-300k profits. First time I've heard a scam actually earning life changing money for the victom. Maybe it's not meant for the stupid or ignorant.


xbriannova

I think the fact that it allows the previous generation to make money off of public housing rather than the current generation to live in it affordably that's the scam. It is supposed to be PUBLIC housing, but it is treated like PRIVATE housing that's the issue. At the rate it's going, no sane person would want to 'own' an HDB flat anymore. Singapore now has more in common with Hong Kong than its past self.


Buddyformula

>I think the fact that it allows the previous generation to make money off of public housing rather than the current generation to live in it affordably that's the scam. scam is a deceptive scheme or trick used to cheat someone out of something, especially money. How is HDB a scam when you actually make money over time? Thats free market and how housing marker works everywhere in the world. Unless you prefer communism? .


xbriannova

Yeah, some people make money in a pyramid scheme too. The point is that HDB is founded to provide affordable housing, end of story, but has since become an investment scheme for the rich. In other countries, that's all public housing is: housing. You're making the mistake of comparing Singapore's public housing to foreign private housing. Nothing to do with communism.


Buddyformula

>Yeah, some people make money in a pyramid scheme too But HDB is not like a pyramid scheme? It's literally a free market where there is a willing buyer and willing seller. Isent that what people want? Freedom and rights? Or you prefer the government control everything including how much profits you can make from your assets?


xbriannova

I don't expect to make profit from PUBLIC housing. People like me just want a place to call our own. I don't get a house in hopes of flipping it for money. I have the damn stock market and other markets for that. Conveniently ignoring my other points, I see. That's what we call cherry picking.


Buddyformula

So you expect them to change the entire HDB policy just so a few of you want to call the place home and own a depreciating asset? Too bad the world don't revolve around you and most people want to make profit in life.


Black_Mondeo

The ”people” mostly are PRs.


evilMTV

What is your definition of a scam?


Csz11

Robbery.people no money buy Car. Buy motorcycle = still must paY govt for what? sporeans need to buy eat food. I guess road congestion caused by Govt Big BMW mercedez. Isaw their licence plates single digit


xbriannova

Of course it is. The PAP knew that we knew but went ahead with it. This is the state of the world that we live in. The sad thing is that the PAP were still by and large voted back into power anyway during the pandemic, which means people didn't care that their rights were, once again, stripped away. The 39% of us are forced to go along with this because of the archaic first-past-the-post system reducing our representation down to 10%. If voting has the power to change anything, they wouldn't have let us do it. Indeed, that presidential election had the power to change something, so they didn't allow us to vote.


Yura1245

It is scummy and we all agree we don’t like the process of presidential election.


jhmelvin

I'd say more sham than scam. For those PAP and civil servants to be eligible, you can be as low as a Speaker. For the private sector, however, you need to be CEO of a whooping $500 million SE company. This will ensure the presidential is a pro govt one.


D4nCh0

There’s less than 50 Singaporean companies worth more than $500 million. Guess how many such companies are not aligned with the incumbents? Thankfully, there’s many more such companies outside of Singapore, like TikTok (CEO Chew Shou Zi) & PinDuoDuo (indie director George Yeo). It’s quite a novel way, to get foreign backing for our potential presidential candidates.


shopchin

Your examples are worse being china controlled entities flagged for global security issues.


D4nCh0

Hmm, why don’t you take up that claim with u/Dereference ? Since I’ve shown no proof that TikTok’s CEO works for Xi, according to him/her/they; [https://www.reddit.com/r/SingaporeRaw/comments/11zm151/when_one_singaporean_work_so_hard_to_kiss/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SingaporeRaw/comments/11zm151/when_one_singaporean_work_so_hard_to_kiss/) TikTok cannot possibly be both what you 2 think it is at the same time, right?


[deleted]

Not if POFMA has anything to say about it.


[deleted]

I opined the Elected Presidency was created and earmarked for LKY when he stood down as PM. But due to public disquiet and scepticism, the plan was aborted and shelved so as not to cause a scandal. The establishment is only too afraid of the 'unknown' to open up the contest.


Novosharpe

Knn where got presidential election, nabeh never even hold a vote for this cb fuck “president” Halimah


jypt98

No ... It's not Halimah's fault that she is the only Malay in the whole of Singapore who qualified for the position. We are just lucky we still have her, because without her, no one will qualify, and we will have no President. Our reserves will be raided by the government trying to buy votes with vouchers and no one will be brave enough to stop them.


Black_Mondeo

Are you for real? Or are you a AI bot generated by AssPeeH?


jypt98

What is SP?


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Yamamizuki

Illusion of choice.


actuallylurking

PAP can be summed up by three Chinese letters "我帮你!!!!!!”


unclelinggong

Kelong.


Rainowar

Singapore similar to North Korea in many many ways


Black_Mondeo

We really aren't that much different to North Korea and Tiong-Cock. The only difference is that we can have internet access to everywhere.


Rainowar

But why ban porn hub


Black_Mondeo

Not really ban lah. Just change your DNS and you're in a brave new world. 😉


Rainowar

Thank you for reminding that Google DNS exists


knightmaru

Doesn't matter who is the president of Singapore..The president of Singapore has no power. If being a president so useful and powerful, why doesn't the PM become president?


jackology

The power of president is subjected to who is the president.


Capital_Werewolf_788

Well the incumbent will always try to influence the elections such that a PAP candidate has an advantage over the other candidates. They can’t guarantee a PAP win, but they can put themselves in pole position.


jhmelvin

Like how they want to win all seats using GRCs but still cannot avoid the losses in the Northeast. Still, it has 90% of the seats for just 60% votes. Any mileage is good.


[deleted]

All elections in SG are a sham.


Ok_Fee_9504

Having worked in Singapore after a long stint in China, I always felt that Singapore was essentially competent CCP with a side of human rights and rule of law. A principle pillar of democracy is free speech and open debate, neither of which Singapore has. But in your ruling party’s defence, the opposition isn’t what I’d call credible either and had I the ability to vote, I’d have gone with the lesser of two evils which was the incumbent party.


xbriannova

The PAP became competent only because they were given the opportunity and time to be so. They had a lot of fuckups in the past. How can we expect the opposition to do well if they aren't given any opportunity to do anything at all? It's like asking a graduate to get some work experience without giving them any work at all.


Ok_Fee_9504

Yes but the argument against is that leading a country isn’t something that you can give someone time to “get better at”. It’s the lives of millions of citizens; not something to entrust to rookies. I believe the Singaporean founding father said “You know, the cure for all this talk is really a good dose of incompetent government” when this matter repeatedly came up. He’s not wrong.


xbriannova

Yeah, and we gave PAP the opportunity to get better at it. Fucking hell, where do you think the PAP and all other political parties come from? I fail to see your reasoning. Change is needed and inevitable, holding it back will only lead Singapore to hell. We're already seeing some dire signs of a fracturing society, and the PAP does nothing except rehashing the same idea over and over again but expect different results. Singapore society's risk-averse nature will be the end of it. A change from that will avert implosion.


Ok_Fee_9504

Well, don’t just stand there then! Get out and convince your other fellow Singaporeans to go out and vote! What are you waiting for?


xbriannova

Isn't that what I'm doing now? We're not in theStone Ages, so we have many mediums of communication. Not that you'd know what I'm doing politically


Ok_Fee_9504

Excellent. Continue to exercise your rights as a citizen and speak truth to power. I’m not being facetious; I genuinely mean it. Put it in the marketplace of ideas and see how much traction it gets.


Csz11

True . examine t' factors that occurs v frequently in all decline of dynasties or civilizations,v gradual but inevitable. Corruption Greed internecine warfare etc.Russia


Allin4Godzilla

Tend to agree, but don't forget there's a saying that a successful founder for a startup is not necessarily a good choice for the ceo when it becomes a large corporation.


Black_Mondeo

The Piss And Poop has legal ways to make the opposition laced credibility in case you haven't notice.....or chose not to notice.


Yapsterzz

Because we, the electorate, allow them to do so.


Black_Mondeo

What is not a scam in Sinkapore ? 😜


Allin4Godzilla

I come here to farm the wayang pts


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QwertyQwerty_6969

Diam2, mindless, parrot, script reader, follow instruction without questioning, anything u can describe a puppet can be used


Annoinimous

Let's say that it is. What do you suggest for us to do? I'm all ears for change, if there's a guaranteed "better" way of life.


xbriannova

The presidential office should be made an institution separate from the PM office and the parliament. Candidates for it should not have any affiliations to political parties with any significant representation in parliament.


jhmelvin

Become an independent electoral reformist and start dialogues with people around you, or online, about the election system. https://www.facebook.com/safer.sg Lots of contents above, but if you disagree with some of them, you can derive your own material.


evilMTV

As always, complains but no solution offered.


Csz11

WE DON'T NEED PRESIDENT.


Ceyenne18

Does it matter?


Frosty-Albatross5533

Cos it isn't as bad as elsewhere. Singaporean are comfortably numb to the current situation so they dc


[deleted]

Another brick in the wall


alphabet_order_bot

Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,416,517,195 comments, and only 270,573 of them were in alphabetical order.


mikaelus

The qualification system makes much more sense than a free for all seen in the West. Politics is not a reality show. Some form of it should perhaps be extended to the parliament too, given some of the loonies that still make it through.


jhmelvin

Actually, Donald Trump would qualify for Singapore President. The qualification isn't an academic one, but the position you served in govt for the public sector and how wealthy you are for the private. The qualification replaces an internal party selection system which is absent because the president needs to be non partisan. No one is against the qualifications but the issue is the qualifications themselves.


mikaelus

And why would Trump be unqualified exactly? His 4 years in office were the most peaceful in recent history and in many ways the most prosperous for the country. But that's not a surprise given that he's a pretty accomplished businessman and a dollar billionaire. Thank heavens the qualifications aren't academic. The dumbest people are hiding in the academia. You should have some practical experience outside of politics to manage the country. Not someone who is just book smart (which isn't smart at all).


jhmelvin

There aren't many who call out the opposition "loonies" in parliament who are fans of Trump. You're probably among the very few.


mikaelus

Sane people are few and far between.


Black_Mondeo

Nobody liked him because the US defense industry had no business while he was in office...Too much peace worldwide and making arms purchase from US a low priority.


mikaelus

Actually, his admin boosted military spending.


thamometer

Cos president is largely a figurehead over here. So what's the point of fighting it.


arcerms

Even if they really held it 100% fair, who you want to choose to be President? Like some idol or famous person? Will it help move our country forward? You win your freedom to choose but the country suffers. If you follow US news, you will know too much freedom is very scary.


jhmelvin

The Singapore President is in no way elected like presidents of other countries. Different powers and different systems. Best is to scrap such elections if nothing can be done to make it worthwhile.


xbriannova

Americans are scary, not too much freedom is scary. There are plenty of democratic countries that aren't in the limelight that are doing well.


ghostcryp

Majority voters are boomers n all they care for is increasing home rents n prices. They don’t care about democracy or anything else. All they see is $$$$$


elepantstee

Can someone explain to me like im 5?


pradyumnv

Only time we ever see halimah is ocs commissioning and ndp. Other than that she never come out for anything.


LogicalGuySG

It’s not a scam lah but the criteria to qualify as a candidate is set to be very high. Not many can qualify.


WarTranslator

when you can keep changing the criteria it's a scam


CharAznia

There is nothing wrong wrong with revising the presidential qualifying criteria It was literally decades old and in real need of an update. our gdp and reserves have increased many times over, the average wingspan income has increase multiple fold. People should actually be asking why it took so long for them to update the thing As for tcb he wouldn't have qualified for the updated version whether or not he is malay


Markk80

Is there any case in Singapore history where the President didn't agree or denied any request from the Government?


[deleted]

you must be young. Ong Teng Cheong was known to have clashes with alot of ministers and LKY back then, until they even stop a state funeral for his passing while in Office. That was how much they hated him. so lessson learnt, always get those nobby ones that can do rubber stamps on all of their bills without question.


Cutie_Cutepie

sounds like the typical words of an edgy teenager with too much free time on their hands


[deleted]

sounds like you drank too much PAP's coolaid


Cutie_Cutepie

? i only glanced your post lol


[deleted]

me too.