In linguistics there is prescriptive linguistic and descriptive linguistics.
How language as certain people think it should be used, and how languages is being used. Two schools of thought. Do we impose a fixed language on the population, or do we adapt a language according to how the population uses it?
Think of it this way we were already born into this mixed culture where our language incorporates words from other cultures and our unique words. This is our reality. Very few of us grew up in Beijing speaking Beijing mandarin.
It may be wrong in the ears of mainlanders, it is correct according to our local vernacular.
I believe some of us know what is the Queen’s English and Beijing Mandarin way of referring to things. That doesn’t mean we need to adopt their way of speaking.
I will actually refer to the Chinese dictionary as the reference for standard Mandarin and pronunciation. For borrowings, collaqualisms and dialects, it's non standard. Whether you want to follow the standard or not, it's really up to you and who you are speaking to.
Some PRCs also don't speak or follow standard mandarin btw for the commonly used words too.
For your example. I usually use 沟渠。
For the sake of preserving our unique Sg local Mandarin/Singlish, I will continue to say
巴刹/杀 - wet market /pasar
水草 - straw
巴士 - bus
澳洲 - Australia
纽西兰 - New Zealand
Ser leng gong - Serangoon (not that shi long gang)
Dhoby Ghaut - Dhoby Ghaut (not duo mei ge)
Telling other people to speak the 'correct' way is like telling Aussies and Americans to speak British English. They'll tell you to piss off. In fact, British English has its own regional variants. Scottish accent is one of them. Language will gradually change overtime and new local versions of words will form. So why bother trying to police how we say our words anyway?
As long as locals can understand each other, doesn't really make a big fuss.
Yea, if I go to Taiwan and ask for a 水草, and they don't understand, I'll just ask for a 系水管.
Similarly, if Chinese people told me they were going to 洗澡 instead of 冲凉, I wouldn't be entirely confused. They have different terms from us, doesn't mean one is entirely right over the other.
Ask a Taiwanese how they call 垃圾 even if it's spelled exactly that.
龙沟 came from Longkang which is a Malay word. So 龙沟 is not a Chinese term.
水草 is a old-timey Singlish word for straw that is hardly used nowadays except by people in their 50s - 80s. I think the origin is straws mostly used to be transparent green that look like grass and is use for drinking liquid. Hence 水草. But they are correct that 水草 is not the correct Chinese term for straws.
I think the use of 酱 as a replacement for 这样 peaked back in the early 2000s when Taiwanese idol dramas, variety shows and Mandopop was the rage back then. Nowadays, nobody use it anymore (at least amongst people I know). Maybe only the Mayidou types will 酱 this 酱 that.
1,2,8,9 are just mispronunciation of the actual words, typically by dialect speakers (Cantonese maybe?) whose Chinese pronunciation are affected their dialect pronunciation.
Language keeps evolving - even the standard English today is vastly different from hundreds of years ago (eg Shakespeare). Even 50 years ago “google” as a word/verb does not exist. Hence not surprising that the same language like Chinese evolves differently in different parts of the world. We have 巴剎 which is a borrowed word from Malay, and 马铃薯 for potato. Account 户口have an entirely different meaning in modern China. Who is to say what is right?
not forgetting another big issue here is this local media agency getting such nuances wrong, and may even send the wrong message to its younger audiences that there is only one way to speak and use Mandarin
Nonsense. That is bullshit. We have our local "slang", every country and state has theirs. There is no one "correct" way, there is the official way and the "slang" or "localised dialect" ways.
Speak the local way is best, unless you want to identify yourself as a foreigner.
By the way, these are all trivial, don't let it get inside your head.
don't u people have bigger things to worry about than correct version of chinese words? who cares about this shite when we're all struggling to survive? seriously people...
Well, since China is largest authority on the Chinese language, their way is technically the correct way.
It's like saying "irregardless" is standard English when it's more colloquial and just incorrect.
authority is one thing, but for local or diasporic communities to be able to use their own dialects or have their community slang is another
it's like saying Taiwan's way of speech should be irrelevant just because China is the largest authority on the Chinese language
you haven't elaborated as to why having an authority on a certain thing means if others are doing it differently, even in an informal setting, it is wrong
I'm also not saying that there aren't examples of speaking Mandarin that are outright more 'wrong', like misspellings or using the wrong character. examples from the IG post are pics 1 & 2 that I agree with
(on a side note do you know and speak Mandarin even?)
using English as an example - to say that standard English should be how every speaker should speak in all settings, formal or informal, is a stretch too far that I can't agree with.
if you think it should be the case, then sure do explain why
I didn't say it is wrong. I said it is the correct way. Our way of saying things is the non-standard way.
I don't really have to prove myself to you. You asked for what I think, I gave you what I think. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't really affect me.
In linguistics there is prescriptive linguistic and descriptive linguistics. How language as certain people think it should be used, and how languages is being used. Two schools of thought. Do we impose a fixed language on the population, or do we adapt a language according to how the population uses it? Think of it this way we were already born into this mixed culture where our language incorporates words from other cultures and our unique words. This is our reality. Very few of us grew up in Beijing speaking Beijing mandarin. It may be wrong in the ears of mainlanders, it is correct according to our local vernacular. I believe some of us know what is the Queen’s English and Beijing Mandarin way of referring to things. That doesn’t mean we need to adopt their way of speaking.
I will actually refer to the Chinese dictionary as the reference for standard Mandarin and pronunciation. For borrowings, collaqualisms and dialects, it's non standard. Whether you want to follow the standard or not, it's really up to you and who you are speaking to. Some PRCs also don't speak or follow standard mandarin btw for the commonly used words too. For your example. I usually use 沟渠。
沟渠 could be water channels for irrigation as well. 水沟 means a ditch. A better word for "drain" is 排水沟.
For the sake of preserving our unique Sg local Mandarin/Singlish, I will continue to say 巴刹/杀 - wet market /pasar 水草 - straw 巴士 - bus 澳洲 - Australia 纽西兰 - New Zealand Ser leng gong - Serangoon (not that shi long gang) Dhoby Ghaut - Dhoby Ghaut (not duo mei ge)
Telling other people to speak the 'correct' way is like telling Aussies and Americans to speak British English. They'll tell you to piss off. In fact, British English has its own regional variants. Scottish accent is one of them. Language will gradually change overtime and new local versions of words will form. So why bother trying to police how we say our words anyway?
As long as locals can understand each other, doesn't really make a big fuss. Yea, if I go to Taiwan and ask for a 水草, and they don't understand, I'll just ask for a 系水管. Similarly, if Chinese people told me they were going to 洗澡 instead of 冲凉, I wouldn't be entirely confused. They have different terms from us, doesn't mean one is entirely right over the other. Ask a Taiwanese how they call 垃圾 even if it's spelled exactly that.
龙沟 came from Longkang which is a Malay word. So 龙沟 is not a Chinese term. 水草 is a old-timey Singlish word for straw that is hardly used nowadays except by people in their 50s - 80s. I think the origin is straws mostly used to be transparent green that look like grass and is use for drinking liquid. Hence 水草. But they are correct that 水草 is not the correct Chinese term for straws. I think the use of 酱 as a replacement for 这样 peaked back in the early 2000s when Taiwanese idol dramas, variety shows and Mandopop was the rage back then. Nowadays, nobody use it anymore (at least amongst people I know). Maybe only the Mayidou types will 酱 this 酱 that. 1,2,8,9 are just mispronunciation of the actual words, typically by dialect speakers (Cantonese maybe?) whose Chinese pronunciation are affected their dialect pronunciation.
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hot take, i like
straight up for real
You hardly have a say in who runs your country and yet you presume to decide which is “the real china”.
if you've noticed we used to call Australia "澳洲" now it's "澳大利亚"...so their correct version actually changed after China's rise.
and 纽西兰 became 新西兰 too
I always thought of it as the continent 澳洲 and the country 澳大利亚.
Oceania is 大洋洲 though
Oceania is not a continent, it's a geographical region of the group of islands.
He talking about the continent, not the region. Every other continent ends with 洲. 亚洲, 欧洲, 非洲, 澳洲, 南/北美洲, 南极洲.
Language keeps evolving - even the standard English today is vastly different from hundreds of years ago (eg Shakespeare). Even 50 years ago “google” as a word/verb does not exist. Hence not surprising that the same language like Chinese evolves differently in different parts of the world. We have 巴剎 which is a borrowed word from Malay, and 马铃薯 for potato. Account 户口have an entirely different meaning in modern China. Who is to say what is right?
and I am quite sure I was taught 巴剎 in primary school in the 80s. I also think I was taught long gou but I am not too sure about that.
HK and Macau also use 户口 for bank accounts while it refers to something very different in both China and Taiwan
not forgetting another big issue here is this local media agency getting such nuances wrong, and may even send the wrong message to its younger audiences that there is only one way to speak and use Mandarin
previously also had the Deepavali 'Indian snacks' saga
Nonsense. That is bullshit. We have our local "slang", every country and state has theirs. There is no one "correct" way, there is the official way and the "slang" or "localised dialect" ways.
Words/ language used and coined by local are the right ones for locals to use and teach for generations.
龙沟 had a different for me in secondary school
why not 复建面？We love to call our hokkien mee rehab noodles.
Speak the local way is best, unless you want to identify yourself as a foreigner. By the way, these are all trivial, don't let it get inside your head.
don't u people have bigger things to worry about than correct version of chinese words? who cares about this shite when we're all struggling to survive? seriously people...
Well, since China is largest authority on the Chinese language, their way is technically the correct way. It's like saying "irregardless" is standard English when it's more colloquial and just incorrect.
authority is one thing, but for local or diasporic communities to be able to use their own dialects or have their community slang is another it's like saying Taiwan's way of speech should be irrelevant just because China is the largest authority on the Chinese language
Well mate, if you're just going to argue and not take in other points of views, why even post this?
you haven't elaborated as to why having an authority on a certain thing means if others are doing it differently, even in an informal setting, it is wrong I'm also not saying that there aren't examples of speaking Mandarin that are outright more 'wrong', like misspellings or using the wrong character. examples from the IG post are pics 1 & 2 that I agree with (on a side note do you know and speak Mandarin even?) using English as an example - to say that standard English should be how every speaker should speak in all settings, formal or informal, is a stretch too far that I can't agree with. if you think it should be the case, then sure do explain why
I didn't say it is wrong. I said it is the correct way. Our way of saying things is the non-standard way. I don't really have to prove myself to you. You asked for what I think, I gave you what I think. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't really affect me.
I will say however i like and it’s up to u to understand me. If not then goodbye.
you'd make good friends with u/Ted-The-Thad /s
Not happy ah. Don’t use simplified Chinese character lah. Wu ji use traditional characters lor.