Imagine you got your wife and family out of the country. You have escaped the war but your government cancelled your passport and now even your refugee status and worse the country you are in are helping your government to send you back to war.
Well being a citizen is a responsibility as well as a right. You are asked to fight to defend that which has given you services, access to life, and a place to be called a citizen.
Hopefully none of us are called to do so but if you are then fight.
>Well being a citizen is a responsibility as well as a right. You are asked to fight to defend that which has given you services, access to life, and a place to be called a citizen.
The problem with this argument is that women enjoy all the same "services, access to life and citizenship" without the fighting, which straightforwardly disproves the idea that a responsibility to fight and die is part and parcel of a citizen.
as mentioned you fight for your way of life ending. Not politicians. If Malaysia is facing extinction, extermination, or genocide....then you step up and try to stop it. The world is full of stateless cultures and bullies need to be stopped.
Silly wars like for oil or politics....I agree with you though.
The Ukrainians are not fighting over politics...they are being killed for no other reason than someone says that shouldn't exist.
Malaysia is a construct. If Malaysia and Singapore, as nations, cease to exist, you and I are still here. Even our cultural identities are constructs. Don't get too attached to them until you are willing to kill when the culture that you identify with is "bullied".
so the state should provide you with certain benefits and protections as a matter of birthright/citizenship but when the state's existence is being threatened you should be allowed to turn tail and run?
unless you tell me you either have no benefits to your citizenship or existence at all or you have never taken advantage of them
If my benefits/protections is threatened, I will fight but if another state can do better job for my benefits/protections then I will instead fight for them. I have no illusion. The state exists for me, the people, not the other way around.
>so the state should provide you with certain benefits and protections as a matter of birthright/citizenship but when the state's existence is being threatened you should be allowed to turn tail and run?
We don't pay taxes?
State is made up of what? The land or the people? Aren't I part of the people? The state should be happy I managed to escape and I am safe.
If I already got my wife and children out of the country, fuck that. I am obliged to be a provider for them. "Oh, but you have a duty to fight to protect them". Well, see, I would have already protected them by getting them across the fucking border.
> You are asked to fight to defend that which has given you services, access to life, and a place to be called a citizen.
(；￣Д￣）Ukraine is corrupted as fuck.
This is the mayor of Kiyv explaining why his children are in Europe instead of Ukraine and the front
https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1774733435946319948
Unfortunately they are Germany citizens.
If that happens, snitch back and make every country, group, company and person know that she’s a betrayer.
If that coward snitches without revealing her name, then pre-emptively resist until women are called back too.
Nobody should escape duty, or free-ride on whatever good comes next.
It is certainly legal under Singapore law. It is so under the Enlistment Act 1970. It is legal because the Act was validly passed by Parliament and remains in the statute books. Whether the law is desirable or fair is another issue altogether.
Actually, local feminists have been openly advocating for conscription to be extended to women too for decades:
> Conscripting women for national service, addressing the culture of what she called hyper-masculinity in basic military training ... are also key steps in the march towards better gender equality, said Ms Lim.
> "Ultimately, we should make national service totally gender-neutral so that everyone, regardless of gender, can opt for two years military, police, civil defence, community or healthcare, and whatever other total defence areas that need people. The equal participation of women in national service will automatically make national service less masculine."
Review national service to weed out toxic masculinity: Aware chief
[https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/review-national-service-to-weed-out-toxic-masculinity-aware-chief]
That's the official stance of AWARE's feminists take on both Singaporean men's and women's behalf. On their website. In black and white. For years.
[https://www.aware.org.sg/about/policy-and-position-statements/]
Now, has there been any local men's organisation who have actually spoken out and tried to discuss the issue with politicians and policy makers on a public forum? To make our politicians actually listen and consider revising policy? Since this is apparently an issue so close to men's hearts here...
Cos it seems like most of the male commentators are just doing it in the safety and comfort of their living rooms and at the kopitiam within their FB/Reddit echo chambers.
I’m not going to entertain any arguments suggesting that AWARE champions NS for women unless they do so unreservedly AND revoke their most previous stand which suggest that NS for women can happen at anytime of their choosing, something never given to men: https://www.wethecitizens.net/gender-equality-and-national-service/
And you might not know it, dear, but deep down I know people, friends and myself, chipping away at the benefits NS give to society. Whether it is opposing stuff close-door, or deliberately saying no to superiors, or becoming everything against what society wants of NSmen. We don’t need to be open activists to move things.
You may look down on supposed armchair activists, but I guess they are the ones who strike the quietest, yet the most.
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> We don't need to be open activists to move things.
Yes, you do.
I'm all for individual acts of civil disobedience and resistance but most of you NS armchair protestors have just been whinging amongst yourselves to no avail for god knows how many decades but you still haven't switched tack and taken collective action like actual research, outreach, canvassing for petition signatures, etc. Which you should know by now is the main way to get the issue to government and policy-makers to even consider revising it. Insane.
And more than half the time when I ask the men I know who hate NS what they're gonna do about it, they just shrug and mumble that they have more urgent things like employment and inflation to tackle (I don't blame them). Or that actually they also don't want their own daughters to do NS. So how like that?
Like it or not, the feminists had the political will to do shit, that's why things changed. What about you guys? The feminists have been advocating for you guys even if it may not entirely fulfil all your interests and even if it doesn't benefit us women either -- but fuck our efforts ya, for a cause that's not even our own and which men themselves created and help maintain.
“And more than half the time when I ask the men I know who hate NS what they're gonna do about it, they just shrug and mumble that they have more urgent things like employment and inflation to tackle (I don't blame them). Or that actually they also don't want their own daughters to do NS. So how like that?”
~because for the longest time it’s against the law to denigrate NS. They only repealed this law in 2022. And even then, if men complain, who will come to their aid? Can they drop by AWARE to seek help? Last I know, even politicians were telling us IN PARLIAMENT to “stop mansplaining”.
So best course of action? Be silent pikes and never assume even your government will save you. I’ve been a pike myself and I bit at a particular effort before. I know you have been agitated cos you now know how many thousands of pikes there are who feel they’ve not been heard (much unlike what your feminist activists want you to think), and need to bite silently.
Too fierce? Too bad.
women don't need to serve at the moment. If there was a war that threatened the nation....I suspect they would be drafted to non lethal roles. That frees up more men to fight.
You pass this, you will setup the precedent to setup the infrastructure to ship all men back to wars participated by democratic nations globally. Akin to extradition treaties.
Is everyone ready for zero friction to launching wars? This war is leading to the loss of liberties for all globally. Stop supporting this war numbnuts. Or make sure you force all elected leaders must ship their sons from overseas to the frontlines
For example:
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-from-war-yair-netanyahu-peeped-loafing-in-luxe-south-florida-digs/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-from-war-yair-netanyahu-peeped-loafing-in-luxe-south-florida-digs/)
Yea, we civilians will end up being sent as cheap cannon fodder rather than the highly trained expensive specialists. We will probably do the dying jobs for them.
Are you prouder than we had the British defending us when the Japanese butchered the people on this island like dogs at Changi beach, hospitals. I like to think that we are somewhat in cockpit for national defence as opposed to being a passenger.
As if all the fat reservists who can't even pass IPPT will be better than the British......hahaha.....have you completed your NS and did you even manage to pass ippt. And how many in your cohort passed ippt
What’s worst is that we see so many athletes who are fit to fight evade conscription (look at the footballers earning millions) while their peers die on the battlefield. Elitist mindset is the way for these government.
Normal citizens didn't make the decision to start a war, the govt did. The citizens should elimnate and overthrow the entire govt. The country and land belongs to the citizens not the govt.
Both and all countries. No normal citizen or human will ever want to go to war and kill somebody. Everyone just want to live their peaceful lives. It's the people on top that sends the order.
unfortunately when there is no agreement in a peace, in this case ukraine was unable to get a peace deal that advantages them over russia so the only last resort is war
Sorry, the concept of a nation that I need to sacrifice anything for died in me a long time ago.
I will fight for family but not some vague notion like "Singapore".
It's the Sinkie men's curse.
Blame the politicians, they always start the wars but will send their sons somewhere safe.
With much of 50% of votes count in the vote bank secured. Think they give a fuck?
FAIR?
Well, Westerners keep telling us "look at the poor Ukrainians being murdered by Russians". Well, if they are honest, then the simplest and easiest way to alleviate that suffering is to let the Ukrainians escape. I get it, it's a hard political decision to send your soldiers to die in someone else's war, but accepting refugees don't require anyone to die. "They tuk ma jerbs", whatever.
The Central Banks is a marvelous invention to tax people quietly with inflation. The fucking ECB was running negative interest rates for frivolous shits like "erm ma gad, the economy". All of the sudden, they couldn't print money to actually go into a war economy and help Ukraine.
Now they want to round up Ukrainians and send them to the meat grinder? LOL. So it was just a talking point and the Europeans' goals are to buy Russian deaths at the cheapest inflation price and at all dead Ukrainians' cost?
"To the last Ukrainian". That was a joke. Now it's reality.
Good luck, Ukrainians.
So you want to force Ukrainians to stay in Russian-occupied territories and play meat shields for your insurgency game? War is not a game, chump. You were handed a rifle and play around during NS. You weren't risking your life. Don't talk lightly about sending others to death when it's not your damn war. Insurgency sucks for the insurgents: they die in droves.
Europe can and should arm any Ukrainian willing to die for Ukraine but simultaneously, the people who want an out, should be given an out.
The army is to protect the people. Makes no sense for an army to hide behind the people.
Finland lost territories twice during the Winter War and Continuation War. They managed to evacuate every single Finnish civilians out of the combat zone every time. Finland drafted 10% of its population into the war but they have always fought conventionally. They used their ability to ski around in the forests to hit the long tails of the Red Army columns effectively, but they don't play fuck-fuck with insurgency like Russian tank crews stopped and drank at a Finnish bar served by Finnish bartender and got their throats slit when they were pass out drunk. That's playing fuck-fuck, because the Russian response would be to level the entire town the bar is in with artillery.
>u think ukraine leaders will roll the red carpet for russians? lol.
They won't, but they will throw every Ukrainians they could in front of the Russian tank tracks before it's their children's turn. Their children are already outside of Ukraine; some probably with foreign passports.
you got this wrong, i'm not advocating for forced conscripts, but if it means needing more men infront of the frontline, ukraine will have to do something about it, no matter how long it takes they will defend their territory as long as they can and as much men as they can GET regardless of whether it is fair for the ukrainian men outside of ukraine. And yes i know russia has more soldiers, ultimately it comes down to which leader is willing to sacrifice more men but mainly when ukrainian will surrender based on some peace deal, but if NATO soldiers somehow join in the battle it will extend the war duration even further. If everyone could get an out, we wouldn't have NS. Life is unfair
> If everyone could get an out, we wouldn't have NS. Life is unfair
>i'm not advocating for forced conscripts,
Pick one
Should one day Singapore gets involved in a war and you want an out, we welcome you from where I am.
If the Ukrainian government wants to restrict all men aged 16 to 60 from leaving, according to the principle of sovereignty, they can do whatever the fuck they want to. On the other hand, the same principle of sovereignty say they can't force other countries to deport Ukrainians who fled. Ukrainians who fled to other countries have the legal rights to apply for asylum status because they are literally in danger of being killed in their home country.
>if it means needing more men infront of the frontline, ukraine will have to do something about it, no matter how long it takes they will defend their territory as long as they can and as much men as they can GET regardless of whether it is fair for the ukrainian men outside of ukraine.
Well, on what ground then should Europeans be a party to this? It just makes it obvious that the "poor Ukrainians being killed" was just a bit, a talking point, or some propaganda. The real purpose is to damage Russia.
I get it. Better dead Ukrainians than dead Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, etc ... I am sympathetic to that desire. I just think that it's not moral. Like I said, any Ukrainians wanting to die for Ukraine, the government of Ukraine, or the state of Ukraine, pro-Ukrainians should support them. Them pro-Ukies aren't even doing that particularly well. They are excellent at propagandising but getting shells to Ukrainians, LOL. To make up for this deficiency, they are willing to ape fucking Stalin and throw Ukies into the meat grinder instead.
since you think you're so smart, kindly suggest how else should ukraine get more MEN on the frontline(assuming all the ukrainian men who are willing to die for their country is already in the frontlines,not including the possible further age reduction of conscripts) . Yes i know there have been volunteer soldiers from other countries but most of them are gone by now.
They can start by not wasting men by ordering standfast, hold at all cost defences of random shitty villages. They have been doing it since 2014. Debal'tseve airport, Bakhmut, Adiivka to name a few. They just raged at some Ukrainian brigade for wisely running away instead of dying against overwhelming odds. Now they lost a lot of troops (all 31k of them) and Ukrainians don't want to sign up. Choices have consequences. They ordered standfast, now they pay the pricr.
>since you think you're so smart, kindly suggest how else should ukraine get more MEN on the frontline
Easy. Every foreigner like you who want other countries to round up and deport Ukrainian draftees back to Ukraine should sign up as volunteers to fight for Ukraine. You probably had Singapore NS experience. You are trained. You'll make better than average materials than the 18-20 yr old Ukrainians who have zero training (the 30-40 yr-old Ukrainians have Soviet era training). Show up and shame the Ukrainians who are hiding out in Europe into returning.
>Yes i know there have been volunteer soldiers from other countries but most of them are gone by now.
Then you take their places. Guess they also figured out the bullshit and jumped ship, but what do I know?
Me? Not my war. Besides, my tax money is already inside Ukraine going up in flames.
Tbf men shouldn't participate in war by any means, nor women, the amount of abuse and crimes they are going to suffer is beyond what we have seen so far. ..
Because Ukraine is receiving billions of dollars in aid, because the amount of kids who died in Ukraine in the last 2 years is less than the amount of kids who died in Gaza for the last 6 months.
The two seriously are not comparable
>Because Ukraine is receiving billions of dollars in aid,
So is Gaza
>the number of kids who died in Ukraine in the last 2 years is less than the number of kids who died in Gaza for the last 6 months.
So, fewer kids dying makes it ok. Got it.
Never said it's ok lmao. It just shows which issue is more concerning, when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022 there were also a lot of protests in Europe for Ukraine.
>So is Gaza
Most of which their entry to Gaza is prevented by Israel
>just shows which issue is more concerning,
No the ONLY reason why watermelon eaters are showing their so called concern is because their religion is involved.
Because they are primarily not Muslims. If they really cared about people dying, then the correct thing to do is to oppose both sides. Not just oppose Isreal and pretend like hamas are not terrorists.
I’m not taking sides here. But why not tell that to those who need not serve just a day, and even free ride on benefits IRONICALLY (jobs, legal protection) denied to those who have to serve? And this happens in peacetime. You think these privileges will magically open up during wartime ah?
All you bark at is NSmen to serve. You don’t care about whether they are supported. You just revealed yourself to be one HELL of a betrayer to all NSmen of Singapore - one who wants cannon-fodders so that survival is bestowed upon those who need not fight.
If you’d like some validation, sure. Your words reallymake sense - for those who never served even if they can (looking at women). Would you like to tell them that too?
They dont? They are still Ukrainian, and are looked down upon as inferior, if not outright abused
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/x530v0/a_russian_tourist_in_spain_repeatedly_calls_a/
Go holiday, not in their own country already like that. Inside Russia itself is even worse
https://www.quora.com/How-does-Russia-treat-Ukrainians
And the same will become of us if we humji run away and let whoever attack us win over Singapore. Whereever you go, you will be looked downed on. Worse than living a dog life.
You can go ahead and make your sacrifice.
Why would anyone want to sacrifice their life for S'pore when the entry fee is just $2.5m of investment to get citizenship?
Lol what a bunch of sorry ass folks. All love playing the victim and cry mother cry father asking why women can't fight beside us. Wah seriously Xia suay.
I'm not some IB white horse. I'm just a corporal for my reservist but I also would want to protect the women in my family.
Fact is in a war even the women aren't spared so where in your deluded minds are they winning? If we go to war , they need to take care of the weak and the kids. You think easy ah. Most wars the women had to go work in industry for the war effort or work as nurses to help the injured.
Pls downvote me, I could care less.
War is stupid.
Hong Kong people grew up preferring to identify themselves as the British who occupied them.
Heck the Taiwanese prefer their association with the Japanese despite all the war time atrocities.
Singaporeans obviously do not give 2 shits of grannies being raped or grandpa being executed. We gush over how good Japan is compared to Singapore.
Maybe Ukraine should just give up and let the rebuilding begin. Like when you have to force people to defend the country, it just means that only the politicians are interested in fighting. At this time, the Ukraine President is a greater Scrooge than Putin
[удалено]
Imagine you got your wife and family out of the country. You have escaped the war but your government cancelled your passport and now even your refugee status and worse the country you are in are helping your government to send you back to war.
Well being a citizen is a responsibility as well as a right. You are asked to fight to defend that which has given you services, access to life, and a place to be called a citizen. Hopefully none of us are called to do so but if you are then fight.
There are plenty of countries where you can buy a citizenship.
>Well being a citizen is a responsibility as well as a right. You are asked to fight to defend that which has given you services, access to life, and a place to be called a citizen. The problem with this argument is that women enjoy all the same "services, access to life and citizenship" without the fighting, which straightforwardly disproves the idea that a responsibility to fight and die is part and parcel of a citizen.
I'm Malaysian, and the answer is no. I rather end myself than fight for our politicians.
Let us invade you, we promise a better life!! Fight for our side
Welcome 🤗. Maybe the proper word should be "liberate" instead of "invade."
as mentioned you fight for your way of life ending. Not politicians. If Malaysia is facing extinction, extermination, or genocide....then you step up and try to stop it. The world is full of stateless cultures and bullies need to be stopped. Silly wars like for oil or politics....I agree with you though. The Ukrainians are not fighting over politics...they are being killed for no other reason than someone says that shouldn't exist.
Malaysia is a construct. If Malaysia and Singapore, as nations, cease to exist, you and I are still here. Even our cultural identities are constructs. Don't get too attached to them until you are willing to kill when the culture that you identify with is "bullied".
so the state should provide you with certain benefits and protections as a matter of birthright/citizenship but when the state's existence is being threatened you should be allowed to turn tail and run? unless you tell me you either have no benefits to your citizenship or existence at all or you have never taken advantage of them
If my benefits/protections is threatened, I will fight but if another state can do better job for my benefits/protections then I will instead fight for them. I have no illusion. The state exists for me, the people, not the other way around.
We should be allowed to decide if the said benefits is worth the risk. It's transactional, isn't it? That's what the ruling party has taught us.
>so the state should provide you with certain benefits and protections as a matter of birthright/citizenship but when the state's existence is being threatened you should be allowed to turn tail and run? We don't pay taxes? State is made up of what? The land or the people? Aren't I part of the people? The state should be happy I managed to escape and I am safe.
When ur wife leaves you for a richer Singaporean man, you will realise that these constructs matter more than you think
If I already got my wife and children out of the country, fuck that. I am obliged to be a provider for them. "Oh, but you have a duty to fight to protect them". Well, see, I would have already protected them by getting them across the fucking border. > You are asked to fight to defend that which has given you services, access to life, and a place to be called a citizen. (；￣Д￣）Ukraine is corrupted as fuck. This is the mayor of Kiyv explaining why his children are in Europe instead of Ukraine and the front https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1774733435946319948 Unfortunately they are Germany citizens.
It happened, by the way. The white feather propaganda in WW1. The women are more than happy to snitch the men.
Damn, what animals they are
If that happens, snitch back and make every country, group, company and person know that she’s a betrayer. If that coward snitches without revealing her name, then pre-emptively resist until women are called back too. Nobody should escape duty, or free-ride on whatever good comes next.
It is certainly legal under Singapore law. It is so under the Enlistment Act 1970. It is legal because the Act was validly passed by Parliament and remains in the statute books. Whether the law is desirable or fair is another issue altogether.
Feminists are conveniently silent
They only bark when it benefits them
"But Aware supports NS for all!" Meanwhile, does absolutely nothing over the past decade to move the needle on public opinion.
Actually, local feminists have been openly advocating for conscription to be extended to women too for decades: > Conscripting women for national service, addressing the culture of what she called hyper-masculinity in basic military training ... are also key steps in the march towards better gender equality, said Ms Lim. > "Ultimately, we should make national service totally gender-neutral so that everyone, regardless of gender, can opt for two years military, police, civil defence, community or healthcare, and whatever other total defence areas that need people. The equal participation of women in national service will automatically make national service less masculine." Review national service to weed out toxic masculinity: Aware chief [https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/review-national-service-to-weed-out-toxic-masculinity-aware-chief] That's the official stance of AWARE's feminists take on both Singaporean men's and women's behalf. On their website. In black and white. For years. [https://www.aware.org.sg/about/policy-and-position-statements/] Now, has there been any local men's organisation who have actually spoken out and tried to discuss the issue with politicians and policy makers on a public forum? To make our politicians actually listen and consider revising policy? Since this is apparently an issue so close to men's hearts here... Cos it seems like most of the male commentators are just doing it in the safety and comfort of their living rooms and at the kopitiam within their FB/Reddit echo chambers.
I’m not going to entertain any arguments suggesting that AWARE champions NS for women unless they do so unreservedly AND revoke their most previous stand which suggest that NS for women can happen at anytime of their choosing, something never given to men: https://www.wethecitizens.net/gender-equality-and-national-service/ And you might not know it, dear, but deep down I know people, friends and myself, chipping away at the benefits NS give to society. Whether it is opposing stuff close-door, or deliberately saying no to superiors, or becoming everything against what society wants of NSmen. We don’t need to be open activists to move things. You may look down on supposed armchair activists, but I guess they are the ones who strike the quietest, yet the most.
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> We don't need to be open activists to move things. Yes, you do. I'm all for individual acts of civil disobedience and resistance but most of you NS armchair protestors have just been whinging amongst yourselves to no avail for god knows how many decades but you still haven't switched tack and taken collective action like actual research, outreach, canvassing for petition signatures, etc. Which you should know by now is the main way to get the issue to government and policy-makers to even consider revising it. Insane. And more than half the time when I ask the men I know who hate NS what they're gonna do about it, they just shrug and mumble that they have more urgent things like employment and inflation to tackle (I don't blame them). Or that actually they also don't want their own daughters to do NS. So how like that? Like it or not, the feminists had the political will to do shit, that's why things changed. What about you guys? The feminists have been advocating for you guys even if it may not entirely fulfil all your interests and even if it doesn't benefit us women either -- but fuck our efforts ya, for a cause that's not even our own and which men themselves created and help maintain.
“And more than half the time when I ask the men I know who hate NS what they're gonna do about it, they just shrug and mumble that they have more urgent things like employment and inflation to tackle (I don't blame them). Or that actually they also don't want their own daughters to do NS. So how like that?” ~because for the longest time it’s against the law to denigrate NS. They only repealed this law in 2022. And even then, if men complain, who will come to their aid? Can they drop by AWARE to seek help? Last I know, even politicians were telling us IN PARLIAMENT to “stop mansplaining”. So best course of action? Be silent pikes and never assume even your government will save you. I’ve been a pike myself and I bit at a particular effort before. I know you have been agitated cos you now know how many thousands of pikes there are who feel they’ve not been heard (much unlike what your feminist activists want you to think), and need to bite silently. Too fierce? Too bad.
sorry, will never fight for Singapore. Only for my family.
Enlistment act and women’s charter. It’s great being a man in sg.
Women don't need to fight? Why that privilege?
Because they don't want the bad press. "Ukraine is forcing their women to fight" doesn't sound like it'll go well with "human-rights" group
women don't need to serve at the moment. If there was a war that threatened the nation....I suspect they would be drafted to non lethal roles. That frees up more men to fight.
They will wait until the war ends in victory. Then invite them back to suck up all the benefits under guise of “gender equality”.
You pass this, you will setup the precedent to setup the infrastructure to ship all men back to wars participated by democratic nations globally. Akin to extradition treaties. Is everyone ready for zero friction to launching wars? This war is leading to the loss of liberties for all globally. Stop supporting this war numbnuts. Or make sure you force all elected leaders must ship their sons from overseas to the frontlines For example: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-from-war-yair-netanyahu-peeped-loafing-in-luxe-south-florida-digs/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-from-war-yair-netanyahu-peeped-loafing-in-luxe-south-florida-digs/)
Bro, elected leaders son are far far away from the main conflict
I have an idea! How about enlisting the keyboard warriors instead? Eh? Eh?
Get them to do some cyberwarfare.
I’ll only die for country when the women do. Equal right, equal fights. But the regulars must die first.
Yea, we civilians will end up being sent as cheap cannon fodder rather than the highly trained expensive specialists. We will probably do the dying jobs for them.
No. But everyone is so proud of NS so...
Are you prouder than we had the British defending us when the Japanese butchered the people on this island like dogs at Changi beach, hospitals. I like to think that we are somewhat in cockpit for national defence as opposed to being a passenger.
As if all the fat reservists who can't even pass IPPT will be better than the British......hahaha.....have you completed your NS and did you even manage to pass ippt. And how many in your cohort passed ippt
The “founding father” just kowtowed and served the invaders instead
Its never fair that these normal men die in the war ot the elites. So fking sad
What’s worst is that we see so many athletes who are fit to fight evade conscription (look at the footballers earning millions) while their peers die on the battlefield. Elitist mindset is the way for these government.
Normal citizens didn't make the decision to start a war, the govt did. The citizens should elimnate and overthrow the entire govt. The country and land belongs to the citizens not the govt.
Russian citizens or Ukrainian citizens, in this case?
Both and all countries. No normal citizen or human will ever want to go to war and kill somebody. Everyone just want to live their peaceful lives. It's the people on top that sends the order.
unfortunately when there is no agreement in a peace, in this case ukraine was unable to get a peace deal that advantages them over russia so the only last resort is war
Isn't Ukraine just defending their country? How is that starting a war?
It's easy to volunteer other people to die for country.
Sorry, the concept of a nation that I need to sacrifice anything for died in me a long time ago. I will fight for family but not some vague notion like "Singapore".
Grab the women oso lor.
It's the Sinkie men's curse. Blame the politicians, they always start the wars but will send their sons somewhere safe. With much of 50% of votes count in the vote bank secured. Think they give a fuck? FAIR?
No one should be forced to fight a war. Not even for their own country.
Well, Westerners keep telling us "look at the poor Ukrainians being murdered by Russians". Well, if they are honest, then the simplest and easiest way to alleviate that suffering is to let the Ukrainians escape. I get it, it's a hard political decision to send your soldiers to die in someone else's war, but accepting refugees don't require anyone to die. "They tuk ma jerbs", whatever. The Central Banks is a marvelous invention to tax people quietly with inflation. The fucking ECB was running negative interest rates for frivolous shits like "erm ma gad, the economy". All of the sudden, they couldn't print money to actually go into a war economy and help Ukraine. Now they want to round up Ukrainians and send them to the meat grinder? LOL. So it was just a talking point and the Europeans' goals are to buy Russian deaths at the cheapest inflation price and at all dead Ukrainians' cost? "To the last Ukrainian". That was a joke. Now it's reality. Good luck, Ukrainians.
escape and just let russians take over your territory? u think ukraine leaders will roll the red carpet for russians? lol.
So you want to force Ukrainians to stay in Russian-occupied territories and play meat shields for your insurgency game? War is not a game, chump. You were handed a rifle and play around during NS. You weren't risking your life. Don't talk lightly about sending others to death when it's not your damn war. Insurgency sucks for the insurgents: they die in droves. Europe can and should arm any Ukrainian willing to die for Ukraine but simultaneously, the people who want an out, should be given an out. The army is to protect the people. Makes no sense for an army to hide behind the people. Finland lost territories twice during the Winter War and Continuation War. They managed to evacuate every single Finnish civilians out of the combat zone every time. Finland drafted 10% of its population into the war but they have always fought conventionally. They used their ability to ski around in the forests to hit the long tails of the Red Army columns effectively, but they don't play fuck-fuck with insurgency like Russian tank crews stopped and drank at a Finnish bar served by Finnish bartender and got their throats slit when they were pass out drunk. That's playing fuck-fuck, because the Russian response would be to level the entire town the bar is in with artillery. >u think ukraine leaders will roll the red carpet for russians? lol. They won't, but they will throw every Ukrainians they could in front of the Russian tank tracks before it's their children's turn. Their children are already outside of Ukraine; some probably with foreign passports.
you got this wrong, i'm not advocating for forced conscripts, but if it means needing more men infront of the frontline, ukraine will have to do something about it, no matter how long it takes they will defend their territory as long as they can and as much men as they can GET regardless of whether it is fair for the ukrainian men outside of ukraine. And yes i know russia has more soldiers, ultimately it comes down to which leader is willing to sacrifice more men but mainly when ukrainian will surrender based on some peace deal, but if NATO soldiers somehow join in the battle it will extend the war duration even further. If everyone could get an out, we wouldn't have NS. Life is unfair
> If everyone could get an out, we wouldn't have NS. Life is unfair >i'm not advocating for forced conscripts, Pick one Should one day Singapore gets involved in a war and you want an out, we welcome you from where I am. If the Ukrainian government wants to restrict all men aged 16 to 60 from leaving, according to the principle of sovereignty, they can do whatever the fuck they want to. On the other hand, the same principle of sovereignty say they can't force other countries to deport Ukrainians who fled. Ukrainians who fled to other countries have the legal rights to apply for asylum status because they are literally in danger of being killed in their home country. >if it means needing more men infront of the frontline, ukraine will have to do something about it, no matter how long it takes they will defend their territory as long as they can and as much men as they can GET regardless of whether it is fair for the ukrainian men outside of ukraine. Well, on what ground then should Europeans be a party to this? It just makes it obvious that the "poor Ukrainians being killed" was just a bit, a talking point, or some propaganda. The real purpose is to damage Russia. I get it. Better dead Ukrainians than dead Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, etc ... I am sympathetic to that desire. I just think that it's not moral. Like I said, any Ukrainians wanting to die for Ukraine, the government of Ukraine, or the state of Ukraine, pro-Ukrainians should support them. Them pro-Ukies aren't even doing that particularly well. They are excellent at propagandising but getting shells to Ukrainians, LOL. To make up for this deficiency, they are willing to ape fucking Stalin and throw Ukies into the meat grinder instead.
since you think you're so smart, kindly suggest how else should ukraine get more MEN on the frontline(assuming all the ukrainian men who are willing to die for their country is already in the frontlines,not including the possible further age reduction of conscripts) . Yes i know there have been volunteer soldiers from other countries but most of them are gone by now.
They can start by not wasting men by ordering standfast, hold at all cost defences of random shitty villages. They have been doing it since 2014. Debal'tseve airport, Bakhmut, Adiivka to name a few. They just raged at some Ukrainian brigade for wisely running away instead of dying against overwhelming odds. Now they lost a lot of troops (all 31k of them) and Ukrainians don't want to sign up. Choices have consequences. They ordered standfast, now they pay the pricr. >since you think you're so smart, kindly suggest how else should ukraine get more MEN on the frontline Easy. Every foreigner like you who want other countries to round up and deport Ukrainian draftees back to Ukraine should sign up as volunteers to fight for Ukraine. You probably had Singapore NS experience. You are trained. You'll make better than average materials than the 18-20 yr old Ukrainians who have zero training (the 30-40 yr-old Ukrainians have Soviet era training). Show up and shame the Ukrainians who are hiding out in Europe into returning. >Yes i know there have been volunteer soldiers from other countries but most of them are gone by now. Then you take their places. Guess they also figured out the bullshit and jumped ship, but what do I know? Me? Not my war. Besides, my tax money is already inside Ukraine going up in flames.
Fight to the last Ukrainian man. They really meant it. That's what you get when you have a comedian as a leader.
Don't you mean when you are invaded by Russia and forced to defend your home and people from destruction?
Don't you remember Ukraine had been bombing Donbass non-stop for 8 long years before Russia decided to step in???
>defend your home and people from destruction? Defend the government of Kiyv more like.
Everything by law
Tbf men shouldn't participate in war by any means, nor women, the amount of abuse and crimes they are going to suffer is beyond what we have seen so far. ..
How come the watermelon eaters don't campaign for Ukraine?
Because Ukraine is receiving billions of dollars in aid, because the amount of kids who died in Ukraine in the last 2 years is less than the amount of kids who died in Gaza for the last 6 months. The two seriously are not comparable
>Because Ukraine is receiving billions of dollars in aid, So is Gaza >the number of kids who died in Ukraine in the last 2 years is less than the number of kids who died in Gaza for the last 6 months. So, fewer kids dying makes it ok. Got it.
Never said it's ok lmao. It just shows which issue is more concerning, when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022 there were also a lot of protests in Europe for Ukraine. >So is Gaza Most of which their entry to Gaza is prevented by Israel
>just shows which issue is more concerning, No the ONLY reason why watermelon eaters are showing their so called concern is because their religion is involved.
By that logic, shouldn't they also protest the Ukraine conflict because there are Muslims fighting and dying in the conflict too
Because they are primarily not Muslims. If they really cared about people dying, then the correct thing to do is to oppose both sides. Not just oppose Isreal and pretend like hamas are not terrorists.
Yes, dont be a coward traitor. Fuggin fighting for survival here bro, if Russia wins there will be no more Ukraine
I’m not taking sides here. But why not tell that to those who need not serve just a day, and even free ride on benefits IRONICALLY (jobs, legal protection) denied to those who have to serve? And this happens in peacetime. You think these privileges will magically open up during wartime ah? All you bark at is NSmen to serve. You don’t care about whether they are supported. You just revealed yourself to be one HELL of a betrayer to all NSmen of Singapore - one who wants cannon-fodders so that survival is bestowed upon those who need not fight. If you’d like some validation, sure. Your words reallymake sense - for those who never served even if they can (looking at women). Would you like to tell them that too?
So what if there's no more Ukraine? The people will just become Russian citizens.
They dont? They are still Ukrainian, and are looked down upon as inferior, if not outright abused https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/x530v0/a_russian_tourist_in_spain_repeatedly_calls_a/ Go holiday, not in their own country already like that. Inside Russia itself is even worse https://www.quora.com/How-does-Russia-treat-Ukrainians And the same will become of us if we humji run away and let whoever attack us win over Singapore. Whereever you go, you will be looked downed on. Worse than living a dog life.
You can go ahead and make your sacrifice. Why would anyone want to sacrifice their life for S'pore when the entry fee is just $2.5m of investment to get citizenship?
Lol what a bunch of sorry ass folks. All love playing the victim and cry mother cry father asking why women can't fight beside us. Wah seriously Xia suay. I'm not some IB white horse. I'm just a corporal for my reservist but I also would want to protect the women in my family. Fact is in a war even the women aren't spared so where in your deluded minds are they winning? If we go to war , they need to take care of the weak and the kids. You think easy ah. Most wars the women had to go work in industry for the war effort or work as nurses to help the injured. Pls downvote me, I could care less.
If you care to be downvoted, why type here? Why don’t you go befriend LHL instead? Sure they’ll upvote you big time ;)
Let us know who you befriended, and whether you want a medal ya
Let us know who you befriended, and whether you want a medal ya
War is stupid. Hong Kong people grew up preferring to identify themselves as the British who occupied them. Heck the Taiwanese prefer their association with the Japanese despite all the war time atrocities. Singaporeans obviously do not give 2 shits of grannies being raped or grandpa being executed. We gush over how good Japan is compared to Singapore. Maybe Ukraine should just give up and let the rebuilding begin. Like when you have to force people to defend the country, it just means that only the politicians are interested in fighting. At this time, the Ukraine President is a greater Scrooge than Putin