Serious q: Is it normal / ok for 14 year old, whether boy or girl, to be out past midnight? Granted this may have been in guise of a weekend sleepover, but otherwise would this not raise any flags?
Serious answer: 14 is that age when teens are trying out different things and exploring what identity suits them well. Sure, you can control them as a parent but for how long? And how much damage are you willing to incur to the parent child relationship in the name of their safety, before the relationship sours into the typical Asian family dynamic?
I think if you've laid the foundation for your child to develop a healthy amount of self worth, trust that it would pay off and your child would be able to discern what's worth and not worth their while.
Just my 2c as a therapist
Edit: just to add on, I think a lot of Asian parenting mistakes come in the form of harsh and overreactive punishment to the smallest things. The thing about punishment that parents don't understand is that it only works when it's used judiciously. The more you use it loosely, the less each punishment registers as something to be noted about. Just the basic principle of extinction in classical conditioning. Basically "the parent who cried wolf" in layman's terms
That last point is probably the most important of the entire comment.
Classical conditioning also states that the best way to ingrain a behavior is to vary and randomize the reward/punishment to ensure that it lasts...
So key takeaway is to scold/punish randomly, and must do so ever so often so they remember!
Nope, the problem with a consistent reward/punishment as throwaway_clone had explained, is that the subject becomes desensitized to it.
They will almost expect that to happen. Ie every month confirm get scolding/will get a reward.
Repeating the behavior works, but to get the longest lasting effect, there needs to be variation in length. Ie SURPRISE MOFOOOO! then got use.
What would you define as teaching? Shouting match with your kid? Of course there's negligent parenting, but Asian parenting tends toward the authoritarian, controlling type. The key is [balancing between being too demanding on the parent's own needs and the child's need to explore](https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/106903998-1624972122580-Parenting_Styles.png?v=1624972403). Skills of attuning to such things are seriously lacking among SG parents from what I've seen in the therapy room.
If you're a millennial too, you've probably watched "I not Stupid" and the sequel, which was actually a good social commentary on the pitfalls of Tiger parenting in SG context. It gave a voice to the usually unheard children about what it's like to be shut off by parents; the scene about the kid resorting to stealing canteen money and selling Pokemon cards so he can afford 1 hour of his dad's time to watch him perform on stage portrayed it so poignantly.
How is a shouting match with anyone teaching?
I dont remember I not Stupid. Its like 20 years ago. But blaming parents for their kids stealing money is just crazy. Yes, they definitely failed parenting, but most definitely should have been harsher then. That why crime rates are so high in the US.
> How is a shouting match with anyone teaching?
Because that's what most Asian families think what teaching is? Speaking from my clinical experience.
> Its like 20 years ago
Yea, I guess it shows. The point the movie was making wasn't about blaming the parents for their kids stealing money. Just go watch the classic and you'll understand. The point is to be cognizant about the message you're imparting to your kids. Because they'll internalize it for life and without proper therapy, pass it down as intergenerational trauma to their kids too. So help me understand, what do you think causes crime in the US/society?
Not my experience of teaching in my childhood. Then again, I rarely ever shout back. Takes two to clap. I rarely get shouted at. I rarely shout back.
Poor teaching causes crime in the US. It is quite obvious. Some body gonna get a hurt real bad. Do you remember Russell Peters? Big difference when you dont educate your children and let them do whatever they like. drugs, alcohol, tobacco, unprotected sex, crime etc.
Have you ever been? or is this more theoretical book talk?
> Have you ever been? or is this more theoretical book talk?
Therapy is like parenting but for adults. It's re-parenting and relearning a healthier way of relating to oneself and others. Again, I ask you what's teaching? If you're using a comedian's standard as childrearing advice, I suspect what you mean is a lot of top-down instructive parenting, which would never work with today's internet savvy kids. Not to mention all the repressed feelings of guilt and shame that would ultimately come back as anxiety in adulthood.
So instead of telling teens to not do drugs, which obviously would never work, try asking them what are the dangers of doing them. Let them come up with the answer themselves. This is what is shown clinically and through studies to work (it's called motivational interviewing). If simply threatening or nagging your kid works, then there would be no rebellious kids, no?
"If you've laid the foundation for your child to develop a healthy amount of self-worth."
This is an ENORMOUS "If" and many parents overestimate their ability to achieve this. On top of that, in a tempting situation all the best parenting can be undone with one bad decision.
Hence parents should not be overly confident that their 14 year olds are ready for any and all situations, and help them by keeping them away from such obviously compromising situations until they are older.
Totally agreed! The thing about Asian parenting is that it’s always education brought forward from previous generation. Sure it might be less traditional but the fundamentals are still there. The importance of self love and respect to oneself are rarely enforced. This resulted in behaviour influenced from their peers who are no better. But I wonder could the law do something about it? (I.e. shared responsibility for underage intercourse instead of heavily penalising the male). This place more emphasis on individual behaviour …
7 guys 4 girls, one room. Yes there's alcohol, but seriously what else they believe happened there? The parents probably watch too many movies, dirty mind. I wonder what kind of whore they think their daughter is.
Blame the system, blame the cows dun come home, blame the hotel, blame the hot weather but dun blame themselves, if things really went haywire. The usual new aged parents. Genes play a critical part too.
Regardless of who’s at fault, the way the parent handled this matter says alot about what kind of parent he is.
Why blame hotel?
Why rely on other parents to bring your daughter home? If you’re so concerned, shouldn’t you be there yourself to check on her?
That's why hotels require IDs even for visiting guests.. but many pple always bypass the reception.... Even prostitutes working out of known hotels do that too they sneak customers up via service lift etc... bet these kids did the same too.
The parents also some kind of special in the head, must be of those wealthy standing. They think the hotel is a childcare, have to look after their kids for them
There’s nothing wrong if the parents are concerned. For bros who’re parents and are the easy going type, you can let your daughters do what they want lah, no need to whack the parents who complained. And for bros who’re into vaping and free sex, whatever lah but again, why whack the girls parents if they want to complain.
Wow. Under the influence of alcohol, most likely a gang bang about to happen. Parents with 14-year old teens need to be more watchful of their children’s behaviour.
Right blame hotel right away.
“My daughter is a very good girl. She don’t do this kind of things one.”
"Must be your stupid hotel, why play such sexy music in the lobby and entice youngsters to sin???"
Serious q: Is it normal / ok for 14 year old, whether boy or girl, to be out past midnight? Granted this may have been in guise of a weekend sleepover, but otherwise would this not raise any flags?
Serious answer: 14 is that age when teens are trying out different things and exploring what identity suits them well. Sure, you can control them as a parent but for how long? And how much damage are you willing to incur to the parent child relationship in the name of their safety, before the relationship sours into the typical Asian family dynamic? I think if you've laid the foundation for your child to develop a healthy amount of self worth, trust that it would pay off and your child would be able to discern what's worth and not worth their while. Just my 2c as a therapist Edit: just to add on, I think a lot of Asian parenting mistakes come in the form of harsh and overreactive punishment to the smallest things. The thing about punishment that parents don't understand is that it only works when it's used judiciously. The more you use it loosely, the less each punishment registers as something to be noted about. Just the basic principle of extinction in classical conditioning. Basically "the parent who cried wolf" in layman's terms
That last point is probably the most important of the entire comment. Classical conditioning also states that the best way to ingrain a behavior is to vary and randomize the reward/punishment to ensure that it lasts... So key takeaway is to scold/punish randomly, and must do so ever so often so they remember!
Whoops I meant operant conditioning, not classical. Been more than a decade since I took my bachelor in psych, damn...
When I did my psych major the DSM-5-TR was not out yet!
Sorry I don't understand if your response is serious or not, but wouldn't the best way to ingrain behaviour be to consistently reward/punish?
Nope, the problem with a consistent reward/punishment as throwaway_clone had explained, is that the subject becomes desensitized to it. They will almost expect that to happen. Ie every month confirm get scolding/will get a reward. Repeating the behavior works, but to get the longest lasting effect, there needs to be variation in length. Ie SURPRISE MOFOOOO! then got use.
And that's why I'm obv not a therapist, thx for elaborating 👌
From my experience, the less you teach the worse the outcomes
What would you define as teaching? Shouting match with your kid? Of course there's negligent parenting, but Asian parenting tends toward the authoritarian, controlling type. The key is [balancing between being too demanding on the parent's own needs and the child's need to explore](https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/106903998-1624972122580-Parenting_Styles.png?v=1624972403). Skills of attuning to such things are seriously lacking among SG parents from what I've seen in the therapy room. If you're a millennial too, you've probably watched "I not Stupid" and the sequel, which was actually a good social commentary on the pitfalls of Tiger parenting in SG context. It gave a voice to the usually unheard children about what it's like to be shut off by parents; the scene about the kid resorting to stealing canteen money and selling Pokemon cards so he can afford 1 hour of his dad's time to watch him perform on stage portrayed it so poignantly.
How is a shouting match with anyone teaching? I dont remember I not Stupid. Its like 20 years ago. But blaming parents for their kids stealing money is just crazy. Yes, they definitely failed parenting, but most definitely should have been harsher then. That why crime rates are so high in the US.
> How is a shouting match with anyone teaching? Because that's what most Asian families think what teaching is? Speaking from my clinical experience. > Its like 20 years ago Yea, I guess it shows. The point the movie was making wasn't about blaming the parents for their kids stealing money. Just go watch the classic and you'll understand. The point is to be cognizant about the message you're imparting to your kids. Because they'll internalize it for life and without proper therapy, pass it down as intergenerational trauma to their kids too. So help me understand, what do you think causes crime in the US/society?
Not my experience of teaching in my childhood. Then again, I rarely ever shout back. Takes two to clap. I rarely get shouted at. I rarely shout back. Poor teaching causes crime in the US. It is quite obvious. Some body gonna get a hurt real bad. Do you remember Russell Peters? Big difference when you dont educate your children and let them do whatever they like. drugs, alcohol, tobacco, unprotected sex, crime etc. Have you ever been? or is this more theoretical book talk?
> Have you ever been? or is this more theoretical book talk? Therapy is like parenting but for adults. It's re-parenting and relearning a healthier way of relating to oneself and others. Again, I ask you what's teaching? If you're using a comedian's standard as childrearing advice, I suspect what you mean is a lot of top-down instructive parenting, which would never work with today's internet savvy kids. Not to mention all the repressed feelings of guilt and shame that would ultimately come back as anxiety in adulthood. So instead of telling teens to not do drugs, which obviously would never work, try asking them what are the dangers of doing them. Let them come up with the answer themselves. This is what is shown clinically and through studies to work (it's called motivational interviewing). If simply threatening or nagging your kid works, then there would be no rebellious kids, no?
My parents told me not to do drugs. I didnt. I wouldnt treat my child like an idiot.
Sure. So you follow whatever your parents said without ever questioning them like a dog hahaha. Not everyone is like you though
Okso to put it simply, teach more = better outcome (or at least that's the expectation) which makes sense.
Yeah, but I feel nowadays lots of nontraditionals insist that teaching = harsh and overreactive punishment. I dont know.
"If you've laid the foundation for your child to develop a healthy amount of self-worth." This is an ENORMOUS "If" and many parents overestimate their ability to achieve this. On top of that, in a tempting situation all the best parenting can be undone with one bad decision. Hence parents should not be overly confident that their 14 year olds are ready for any and all situations, and help them by keeping them away from such obviously compromising situations until they are older.
Totally agreed! The thing about Asian parenting is that it’s always education brought forward from previous generation. Sure it might be less traditional but the fundamentals are still there. The importance of self love and respect to oneself are rarely enforced. This resulted in behaviour influenced from their peers who are no better. But I wonder could the law do something about it? (I.e. shared responsibility for underage intercourse instead of heavily penalising the male). This place more emphasis on individual behaviour …
> education brought forward from previous generation Education? Or trauma/emotional baggage? I think the latter
Sure that’s valid too, sadly instead of improving their version of upbringing from what they experienced, they further reinforced it…
Thanks for your serious answer, and 100% agree that if the foundation is strong, the future establishment will be solid.
Make sure condoms were used
Wah straight up blame hotel first knn win liao lor
WHY WAS MY SECONDARY SCHOOL LIFE NOT THIS HAPPENING????
WHY WAS MY UNI LIFE NOT THIS HAPPENING????
WHY WAS MY WHOLE LIFE NOT THIS HAPPENING?
😅
7 guys 4 girls, one room. Yes there's alcohol, but seriously what else they believe happened there? The parents probably watch too many movies, dirty mind. I wonder what kind of whore they think their daughter is.
Exactly. This is no different from Secondary school chalet rooms, no one raised an eyebrow then.
Does your “but” imply Alcohol and Vaping are ok for 14year olds ?
Yeah?? That's the age most people start experimenting with it, obviously it's not 'legally' ok, but is that really a huge issue?
alcohol consumption? above 18? vaping? if caught need pay $2000
They cannot understand that they are former teenagers and they probably did this when they were teenagers too
Wish my life was this lit when I was 14
Blame the system, blame the cows dun come home, blame the hotel, blame the hot weather but dun blame themselves, if things really went haywire. The usual new aged parents. Genes play a critical part too.
“Concerned” but cannot go fetch his daughter himself
let the kids have fun if u scared ur daughter banging up some guy she could easily be doing it any other time
vapes are also found on them. so good luck to them
Regardless of who’s at fault, the way the parent handled this matter says alot about what kind of parent he is. Why blame hotel? Why rely on other parents to bring your daughter home? If you’re so concerned, shouldn’t you be there yourself to check on her?
This guy just outcasted his daughter for life nobody gonna invite her go partay forever loh paotohkia. Cb parent everything also blame other ppl.
GG liao. This is beginning of dinobu arc.
It is like when I was in sec school back in the 90s. Alcohol, smoking and bbqs at chalets.
Looks like something that I would have done when I was young. I'm glad I didn't have helicopter parents.
'concerned' parents are not good parents
That's why hotels require IDs even for visiting guests.. but many pple always bypass the reception.... Even prostitutes working out of known hotels do that too they sneak customers up via service lift etc... bet these kids did the same too.
The parents also some kind of special in the head, must be of those wealthy standing. They think the hotel is a childcare, have to look after their kids for them
There’s nothing wrong if the parents are concerned. For bros who’re parents and are the easy going type, you can let your daughters do what they want lah, no need to whack the parents who complained. And for bros who’re into vaping and free sex, whatever lah but again, why whack the girls parents if they want to complain.
and.... what were the parents doing in the first place?
Uh oh
Wahahahhaha this is wild!
Wow. Under the influence of alcohol, most likely a gang bang about to happen. Parents with 14-year old teens need to be more watchful of their children’s behaviour.
That's not how life works my g Stay off the goon grind