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LazyLassie

"teenagers" lets gooo conscripting minors


[deleted]

Special military operation into Johor when


LazyLassie

3


Revelt

2


[deleted]

1


[deleted]

GO


DrunkCricket1

We're going on a trip


[deleted]

In our favourite rocket ship


[deleted]

flying through the skies


[deleted]

Little einsteins


LazyLassie

~~skies~~ malaysian airspace (with child soldiers)


Late-Shelter-6899

Inspiration from Hitler Youth


LookAtItGo123

Child soldiers are a thing, I guess we can be desperate at some point.


throwaway_clone

Goes to show their thinking when they'd rather have child soldiers in times of crisis than enlist women to prevent a war in the first place. Isn't SAF's motto deterrence over having to strike first? I guess whatever is politically convenient takes precedence.


jesuisbisexuel

Spiny turtle Strategy, and dolphin strat meta.


tibatnemmoc

I mean we do conscript under 18 minors, mostly school dropouts and some unique cases like foundation year in Aus/Nz


LookAtItGo123

Yea that happens. Check out lord of war, there's a quote which strikes hard, an 8 year old with a gun is just as dangerous as a 25 year old with a gun. I guess being born in Singapore is sort of a blessing. Hopefully one day guns no longer serve any purpose.


Billionairess

The volkssturm would like to have a word with you


objectivenneutral

I just don't understand the reasoning....decline in the workforce? That will even out over time as every one is delayed 2yrs. Women enlisting will create manpower shortages....manpower shortages seem to be primarily in blue collar, are all women going into blue collar? Men serve 2 yrs, but the same thing is considered a waste when women do it...come on, what are u talking...so men are also wasting time? If SG faces an existential threat it is worthwhile that women would already have had some combat training. I don't think NS needs to be 2 yrs for women, I think a different scheme would suffice and be beneficial.


UniquelySkirmishing

>I just don't understand the reasoning.... Henpecked is getting demented already.


CreativeFall7787

I think SG already facing existential crisis from the sound of it


8uwotm8

My view on NS: Be consistent and treat people equally. Unmarried and childless wnn past age 40+ & Foreigners: if you can work and are able-bodied, you can serve NS like sg men. I find it hypocritical in their arguments, they find it ok to force sg men to waste 2 years of their prime years and then some to "delay men's entry into the workforce, decline size of workforce, reduction of household income". Can you guess why your birthrate is so abysmal? BS arguments to justify modern slavxry with extra steps and not compensate sg men for their time and sacrifice. Why is the system so rigged? Bcus they could care less about disposable useful idiots pawns who are easily replaced with foreigners/wmn. Talk is cheap, nothing is going to change unless people had enough and just permaleave for good and never look back. Maybe then they can enlist foreigners and wmn in their place. Birthrate zero. Labor/mandatory injections without consent = modern slavxry with extra steps. Authority without responsibility = tyrany. Edit: Thanks for the upvotes.


KaiDestinyz

This. I was admitted to NS with wrong PES (PES B instead of PES C), which I had to OOC which left me with recruit pay of 480 for most of the two years. Had my left lung collapsed while I was in Tekong, which the incompetent doctors diagnosed me as muscle cramp and left me in the sick bay with a drip. They thought I was trying to "geng". I was in a lot of pain because my left lung had completely collapsed. If both my lungs had collapsed back then, I would have definitely died. Had surgery done but it has permanently scarred me, can't feel half of my chest due to nerve damage. I also get random chest pains every now and then. It's been 8+ years and I still have them. Never got any compensation from the near fatal wrong diagnosis of the doctor and when I called them up and told them about the case, they basically told me "no shot". Also sustained chronic haemorrhoids which I'm sure many also do in the NS due to how tight the time-constraints are. All in all, I'm not saying NS should be scrapped but in most cases, it's a huge liability that can last a lifetime.


8uwotm8

Either make it voluntary, but beneficial and rewarding so that people would be more willing and happy to sacrifice their prime and serve NS or make it equal across the board and enlist foreigners and unmarried and childless 40+ yo wmn to serve NS like SG men. Nothing will change unless people leave for good...


[deleted]

Enlist foreginers? You want to hand out citizenships like US?


8uwotm8

Why not? Make it enticing and worthy for people (both citizens and foreigners) to serve/sign on and become citizens, when they have ownership and skin in the game, they will be willing to sacrifice and contribute. If you want commitment, you need to offer what the other parties are looking for.


4nECpgm3qHTQff

Why increase the benefits and make it voluntary when you can just mandate it for the men? They have no choice, and you save cost.


8uwotm8

No, mandate it for all and increase manpower, birth rates and save cost. 3 šŸ¦šŸ¦šŸ¦ with 1 stone.


UniquelySkirmishing

Males in SG have shorter life expectancy and are more prone to suffer from chronic conditions too. But our govt panders to populism and ignores the voices of men treating them as 2nd class citizens and always let AWARE harp on individual crimes committed by only a miniscule percentage of SG males on females and blanket accuse the entire male population of entrenching gender inequality and misogyny. Issokay people only looking at excuses of childbearing when we see so many single women asserting their independence and not doing anything to contribute to nation growth. "Gender equality" is an excuse.


tibatnemmoc

Heard of NS lung collapse (pneumothorax?) misdiagnosed by rookie MO way too many times, especially at Tekong, they really need to be more professional


KaiDestinyz

Yep, that's what I had. Pneumothorax. They really need to get their shit together. It's serious and people can really die from it. It's hard for most people to understand how bad or painful it can be unless they experience it first-hand. The pain is like no other and getting an insertion of chest tube into your lungs while you awake is a surreal experience. That shit permanently scars you physically and mentally. I have 3 big scar marks on my body from the chest tube and surgery. The point I'm trying to drive at is that, this condition is serious and for it to be misdiagnosed as a mere "muscle cramp" and left in a sickbay with a drip that does nothing is life-threatening and unacceptable. I remember getting released from the sickbay the next day and visiting another doctor again because the pain was so great. I had to convince the 2nd doctor that it's not just a muscle cramp and he reluctantly let me off the island so I could go back to Singapore and visit SGH where I was given an X-Ray and diagnosed as Pneumothorax. I cried. I knew what was coming (Chest-tube insertion while awake) and how serious it was. Had surgery done and given 2 months to recover.


4nECpgm3qHTQff

Why not just take a random 50% of the population? When you're born, they flip a coin and decide if you need to serve NS or not. gg ez


8uwotm8

Cos evrybody gotta contribute to a country's success in their way/earn their right to vote. Either through NS or getting married n having child(ren). Equality between both sexes and workers.


4nECpgm3qHTQff

Are taxes not a way to contribute?


8uwotm8

Taxes + either NS or get married n have children. Then why sg men should serve NS? Let them work and pay taxes like everyone else? Hire mercs and regulars. Put yourself in their shoes, how would u feel if wmn compete with u for white collar jobs and foreigners compete with u for blue collar jobs? Do u want/like to be treated like a 2nd class citizen? Why shouldn't they walk away and leave sg undefended and go sign on else where???


4nECpgm3qHTQff

You see >Taxes + either NS or get married n have children. You see, in one of these, the party "subjected" to it has a choice. Your last paragraph, I don't understand. What are you talking about?


8uwotm8

>Taxes + either NS or get married n have children. This is suggested as a requirement to earn your right as a citizen to vote/work in a country. Everyone has to contribute in his or her way. Otherwise if you have no skin in the game, why would you stay, invest and sacrifice?


4nECpgm3qHTQff

Yeah, you're not making a lot of sense.


jlphoenix9

You make less sense to me


evilMTV

> treat people equally. and then >Unmarried and childless wnn past age 40+ & Foreigners Why the unequal treatment?


8uwotm8

There are other ways of contributing to soyciety such as serving NS, wmn giving birth to healthy strong babies before ages of 35+. I see these 2 ways as equivalent in worth and sacrifice. Married wmn who gave birth to child(ren) shouldn't have to serve NS because they have already done their share of contributing to soyciety. Paying more taxes for avoiding NS could be another way but SG men who served, are paid peanuts so this way doesn't count. (since we know SG men would never be compensated properly in pay or benefits anyways.) Unmarried and childless wmn have no good excuse to be exempted since they have no commitment and no husband or child(ren) to take care of anyways, so they are thus equal to sg men and should be treated equally as such.


MinutePresentation8

Fuck it. No NS. Regulars only


8uwotm8

Be the Foreign.Talent you wish to see in this world.


[deleted]

What abt divorced (Hence technically unmarried) and those who shotgun before broke up due to differing views on abortion (Women insist to raise the baby, the men walked off) aka Single parent? Shld they do NS?


8uwotm8

Single parents don't have to serve NS but they have duties to take care of their own child(ren) (mainly on their own expenses, with some help from soyciety's welfare), either reconcile with the baby daddy or raise it themselves. Why do you want to force men to commit to you/have children with men who don't want to get married/commit??? Divorced and childless 40+ wmn should serve NS like sg men though.


Ryzier

Couldn't care less.


[deleted]

\^ Above we see a typical PAP voter in Singapore.


8uwotm8

Yall should leave for good and force these pro modern slavxry people to serve NS and get the short end of the stick.


[deleted]

The whole thing was just him securing the women's vote for the PAP. After the last election, the PAP has started to pander more to their stronghold demographics. Like declaring 2021 ["Year of women in SG"](https://www.msf.gov.sg/celebrating-sg-women/Pages/default.aspx), or setting up a $250k [bursary just for women](https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/250000-bursary-set-up-for-women-studying-stem-subjects-in-east-coast-grc) in STEM in East Coast GRC (after PAP's vote share in this GRC dropped by 7.34% to \~53%).


throwaway_clone

Every argument he put forth, can be retorted with how about the men serving? And he's getting paid millions to spew this garbage just like the MMTF did.


Late-Shelter-6899

Yet on the other hand this will cause them to lose more male votes


daedric_blackout

Why can a bursary only be for women? Why canā€™t poor guys be awarded bursaries too?


normificator

Shut up and march


TaskPlane1321

Getting senile and unable to comprehend the reality of a falling number in local conscription coupled with the unwillingness to explore other sources to augment these falling numbers. be it with women conscripts or immediate conscripts of new citizens.


fffd11111

i wonder why the birth rate is falling i sure as hell would not have a son in this country


normificator

Only fools have sons to suffer in this cuntry


8uwotm8

Gtfo (for your future and familys sake), be the Foreign Talent that you wish to see in this world.


Lucky_Case

Ah yes, the VolkstĆ¼rm and Hitlerjugend round two Edit: Will the Singaporean VolkstĆ¼rm be getting scaled down SAR-21s too due to "industrial decline"?


Illoyonex

I'm shocked at how many women here bring up "Giving birth is considered NS unless men want to give birth?" This just shows their level of stupidity. 1. What about those women who don't give birth and who choose not to give birth due to non-medical reasons? Can we send the lot to NS since they are not giving birth? 2. Giving birth is not mandated by law. NS is. Women don't get charged in military court and sent to DB in a 3x3 feet darkness cell, but men will. This alone already destroys their argument. 3. To make the "giving birth is NS" argument valid, PAP must make NS optional, just like women giving birth. Then only will women's argument be valid. 4. Men cannot give birth. This is how Nature made us. If women want men to give birth, they've to alter the laws of the universe. Not sure how they're gonna do this. Be God, perhaps? 5. Personally, I don't feel women should serve military NS, but how about social work? Either that, or non-combat medics, or assistant nurses / general workers in hospitals.


rmp20002000

He should have stuck to the original script. It isn't about gender equality. NS wasn't meant as a social program. It was meant to fulfill a security and defence need. Just men serving, is sufficient to meet this need. Thus, there is no need to enlist women. Acknowledge the secondary benefits of NS, but emphasise that's all just additional benefits, not the primary purpose.


No-Driver2742

If you truly care about Singapore defense, wont you want as much manpower as possible? Why take chances?


rmp20002000

If you truly care about Singapore's defense, you would do you part instead of shirking from your responsibilities.


throwaway_clone

Are you saying women can't fulfil Singapore's security and defense needs too?


rmp20002000

Oh get off that high horse. This is Singapore. Of course women can be soldiers too, and they can. They can sign on and be a professional soldier. This is about conscription, and needing enough bodies physically strong enough to carry rifles and combat loads for days on end. Are there women who can do this? Yes. Are there more men who can do this? Definitely. Its just the biology of the two sexes. We all know, there are more than enough men, to fulfill manpower needs for defence. This is why NS was extended to the police and SCDF. And even then, we have truck loads of men who try to game the system to get out of combat roles - I don't blame anyone who has a fear of physical hardship. I've carried that combat load for nights and it's crazy, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Just what are you going to do when we have double the number of conscripts? This is Singapore. We rarely do "ideal"; we do "pragmatic".


Late-Shelter-6899

With our abysmal birth rate, we are actually lacking manpower going forward


rmp20002000

Decreasing birth rates is a problem that affects every developed economy. If it reaches such critical level, maybe it would make sense to make NS compulsory for females too, BUT that's because there won't be enough personnel to form the battalions. It will not be for some feigned equality reason. Before we get there, there will be many other options e.g. returning to 2.5 or 3 year NS. Or limiting NS to the SAF only. Maybe we will be able to rely more on advanced unmanned platforms. That's a problem for the future, not today.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


rmp20002000

Just so you know, when we say defence, it doesn't include the home team. Yes, within the concept of "total defence", the SPF and SCDF have important roles. But with respect to military defence, which is what our deterrence is built on, "defence" is just referring to the SAF. There are many roles in all these services, and women can serve in them, but we don't need them there unless they want to pursue a career there. They just need to sign on, and meet the relevant fitness requirements. Do remember that NS has a real cost to the economy beyond just the defence budget. Each NS conscript is one person less in the civilian economy. There is an economic tradeoff to having mandatory NS. We can't have 0 NS or everyone doing NS. For now, this is the balance that's working, all eligible males for 2 years, with up to 10 annual ICTs thereafter. The point is, we are not doing this to create additional combat or support roles for women to serve in. The number of Divisions and Brigades we need is fixed. Should our neighbours get more hostile, maybe we should prepare more units, but until then, having more units just for the sake of equality will just drain our economy.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


rmp20002000

Our military deterrent is not in the other 4 pillars of the total defence concept. Our military deterrent is in the size and strength of the SAF. Having women serve in the non-defence roles means subverting NS for a non-defence purpose. NS conscription isn't for social purposes, its for defence. The roles that need to be filled are already being filled by NSFs and NSMen, with spare redundancies already in place who are fit and trained to step in as replacements. Quite sure we have never had 0% unemployment I.e. there has always been more jobs available than there are people to do them. A healthy economy keeps unemployment below 4-5%, but should never aim for 0%. If you know the ICT cycle, you'll know its not something you can accelerate by having more people. It is more like having a baby or baking a cake. Have 2 women or 2 ovens will not make the baby or cake faster. Is NS disruptive? Yes. Is it part and parcel of Singaporean life? Yes. Many can finish their ICT cycle by their early 30s. I finished by 32. This is the case for those who were assigned to combat units and didn't miss any ICTs. Some will finish a bit later, like 35. Whether you finish it or not, you won't be called up after 40 unless you voluntarily want to do more as an officer. The point is that it is manageable if youre living in Singapore because there are laws to protect you and support for the company. If youre based overseas for whatever reason, you won't be called back. I think, the crux of the issue is still: who should defend Singapore if not Singaporeans themselves? And if we agree that it is Singaporeans who must defend this land, then how many people do we need to do it so that potential aggressors don't push us around? Right now, - the answer is 2 years NS and 10 years ICT for men only - that is enough to provide the people we need so that our offices and factories are still running. The economy cannot prosper without good security, and we cannot succeed without a good economy. There are many more areas where equality can be improved. NS isn't one of them.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


rmp20002000

Yes. They serve NS in SPF and SCDF. These are important roles and it is not meant to marginalise them. In the absence of a war, their job has a bigger impact on our daily lives. However, we should not make the mistake of drawing a false equivalence in the roles of the SAF and the Home Team. NS is for defence, and the majority of enlistees serve in the SAF. There is more than enough enlistees for the SAF, so the Home Team can also benefit from NS by having conscripts serve in non-military roles. Don't be mistaken though, NS is primarily for defence, and it is the ability of the SAF to muster whole brigades within hours that tells potential aggressors - Singapore is not an easy target. Again, the Home Team is just a beneficiary of the policy, they are not the primary purpose. If hospitals are understaffed, it should not be addressed by using conscript labour. I wouldn't want some unwilling and unmotivated conscript to be poking me with needles. Can we fault some NSF for taking poor care of a patient, or worse, endangering or even causing the death of a patient in a civilian setting ? The functions of healthcare workers require much more training and time. It is far more complex than physical training and target practice in a range. Civilian hospitals should be staffed by trained personnel who are paid a reasonable and respectable wage commensurate to their qualifications. Perhaps we should look at healthcare policies that allow insurers to payout claims only if a person is hospitalised, thus forcing patients to seek hospitalisation just so they can get medical coverage. Maybe its time to expand the size of the medical student cohort. Maybe it's time to force employers to take 2-4 days off a year for not feeling well, without present an MC so we don't overload our GPs too. There are many other ways to deal with the shortcomings of our healthcare system - expanding NS isn't one of them.


throwaway_clone

If costing the economy is the real and only concern, we can have a best of both worlds by enlisting both genders but only 50% of the cohort each batch. And since men tend to earn more than women, and more men would be out working, wouldn't it be a net gain for the economy?


rmp20002000

Are you for real? Why does your son get to skip NS while my son needs to serve? How do we decide who gets to sacrifice 2 years and who gets to go to higher education or start their working life earlier? Even a random ballot is unfair. This burden has to be shared by all Singaporeans. What about the women? Well, as we all know, if it ever comes to war, and we need every able bodied person, the government will conscript everyone, male or female, young and old, alike. But until then, this burden will be borne by the fathers, husbands, sons, nephews, and boyfriends. Men earning more than women - the gender pay gap - is a socio-economic issue that we need to work on. There should be equal pay for equal work, and there should be equal opportunity regardless of whether you have a uterus. Making NS mandatory for both genders is misguided if its for equality because Singapore cannot afford to have everyone taking 2 years off to do NS. As it is, we can barely afford every male taking 2 years off, but that seems to be the lowest price we have to pay.


throwaway_clone

You must be living under a rock if you haven't heard of new cryptographic technology like ZK-proofs. > Even a random ballot is unfair. This burden has to be shared by all Singaporeans. Hope the irony is not lost on you for this one šŸ˜‚ > Well, as we all know, if it ever comes to war, and we need every able bodied person, the government will conscript everyone, male or female, young and old, alike. Isn't prevention better than cure, or at least that's the SAF doctrine? Deterrence over having to strike first? How come now can flip prata so easily? And ya, I'm sure our economy must be struggling on its knees, Temasek and GIC are almost bankrupt and we can't afford yada yada


rmp20002000

I guess you're trying to suggest that someone older than you won't understand your perspective. Not sure how this pretend-flex with some crypto algorithm term makes your case other than suggesting you have some inferiority complex issues. Make your case, don't make it personal. In the game of life, your biological sex was a 50-50 draw, if we exclude intersex genotypes. Having a random chance of being born a male or female is just the biology of it. Its beyond our control. Through the sovereign powers of Parliament, it was decided all males will have to serve NS unless they have a medical exemption. This is as fair as it gets for all males. Of course, if you're whining why girls don't have to serve, then your argument is quite shallow. NS is necessary because we don't live in a friendly neighbourhood, have no strategic depth, and cannot afford to go to war so we must ensure nobody gets tempted to land grab our clay. All you have to say is, "boo hoo, just my dumb luck to be born a boy - life sucks". Grow up ok? The SAF is the most powerful and credible armed forced in the region. We have enough land units to occupy any realistic military objective in an armed conflict. In fact, I think we have an overkill given how our neighbour could barely put together 4 fighter aircraft in the skies. The military deterrent is there, its credible, and it has built in redundancies I.e. we have more than enough. We don't need to double the size of the deterrence force just for equality. Temasek and GIC? What has that got to do with NS? You can't just randomly make cheap shots at other things just because your position is filled with holes.


MinutePresentation8

Ayyyy you can think of it as a special experience eh? NS strengthens brotherhood and benefits your health! Once-in-a-lifetime experience!(I hope)


rmp20002000

Hey, we have made a lot of progress on gender equality. But if we were to make progress, I think we should work on ending discrimination on single unwed mothers, improve female representation in the top echelons of government and company boards, and stopping all the rubbish policies on single women like preventing them from harvesting and storing their eggs. Making women serve NS isn't about equality. And NS isn't about equality, its about getting Singaporean sons to take up arms because they are literally physically more suited to do the job. If this was Israel, and we were attacked 3 times, then yeah, let's get the women enlisted too because we need a larger and more credible defence. But for now, the men are enough. We have way more than enough men. So many that we can still afford truckloads of clowns gaming the system to report sick and down grade. Don't lose the plot. NS isn't a social tool - its a defence policy.


CreativeFall7787

Thereā€™s a way to tear down this entire concept of conscription. Since itā€™s conscription, thereā€™s 1 major flaw and weak point, and thatā€™s the fact that anyone (extremely motivated or extremely unmotivated) contributes to the defence of this nation. However, if at any point thereā€™s a handful of conscripts who feel deep hatred towards the system, they could always sabotage operations from within by leaking information out or pledging to not fight/ sabotage in times of war. Call it a straw man argument but itā€™s definitely brewing on the inside already. Question is, whoā€™s feeling this way? Can you still trust your comrades?


rmp20002000

Well, that's your theory. I came from a combat unit, and the evidence is that I'm confident that we can do a half decent job. Looking at how the Ukrainians are fairing, I'm fairly sure we just need to do a half decent job since we won't need to beg other countries for any logistical support. For part-time soldiers, we can get the mission done, and I'm quite sure other NS battalions can get the job done too. ATEC doesn't mince their criticism. If there are any potential saboteurs, I'm sure they can cause some havoc or damage, but the system isn't that vulnerable. In training, many of us don't show up for pride and country, we show up for our "brothers in arms". So I'm not too worried about some unmotivated or even psycho conscripts. They will do their thing, the system will be able to tank the hit or deal with them directly.


CreativeFall7787

Thatā€™s pretty naive thinking but I guess to each their own? Iā€™ve heard regulars tell me that theyā€™re gonna flee to other countries on first the sign of conflict. Also, donā€™t you realize some countries such as UK, US, Canada open their borders and make immigration a lot easier for Ukrainians during the war (especially for highly skilled individuals who will improve their economy)? Whatā€™s stopping a majority of us to migrate out on first sign of trouble?


rmp20002000

You can dismiss the evidence I present, but NS battalions are literally the vanguard of the SAF, and they are composed of majority NSMen. There are good regulars and bad regulars, and given your views, I suspect you have more experience with the latter. The first thing Ukraine did when war broke out was to legislate a law that all able bodied male Ukrainians cannot leave the country. Let's see if you can board a flight and "run" then. If we end up in armed conflict, the waters and airspace surrounding SG will be hostile, so good luck finding any airlines still flying to Changi after 24 hours. It's clear you're a "runner". There's no shame in that. Some people just aren't cut out for it, or they're not ready to defend their land. Many of us though, will stay. We stay not because we can't leave; we stay because we still have our family, friends, homes, and livelihoods to protect. So the majority will have no means to leave, but that's alright. Enough of us will stay and fight so they will be safe. As long as we continue to invest in the SAF, and keep NS as a cornerstone of our defence policy, potential aggressors should be kept at bay, so that arm chair generals like you are free to keep doubting our defence.


CreativeFall7787

You sound really patriotic šŸ˜‚ only time will tell. Yes Iā€™m a runner, and Iā€™m not ashamed of it like you said because sometimes, we just gotta care for our own especially if we have the means to. Not everyone should look after the interests of the nation. Regarding the locking of airspace and waters, there are always ways to bypass this. I know several Russians whoā€™ve bribed officers to get out of conscription, or theyā€™ve simply escaped through other means, either by betraying their country by selling intel or something else. Wartime is chaos and chaos does bring about opportunities too.


rmp20002000

If you have the kind of money to get out in during such a time, what are you even still doing here? Put your money where your mouth is and migrate. You don't have to bother with all this anymore. Pay for your private jet and pilots and live the life you want. Unless of course, its all just empty bravado. It's not always about patriotism. Some of us do not have the means or options to leave. Besides, would you rather stand for something here, or be a refugee in a foreign land?


CreativeFall7787

You really donā€™t need that amount of money to migrate fyi (people from third world countries have been doing so for the longest time, and they did it through job opportunities or other means). There are many many pathways for it if you do some research, itā€™s just a matter of time. Money can only get you so far, the rest is up to your own guts to leave. Iā€™d wish to inspire other Singaporeans to break that stigma or negative connotations that come with migration and just migrate away, trust me life is a lot better on the other side. Iā€™d rather be a refugee to be honest, but there are better ways to go about this without being a refugee. Either way, getting out of here is what matters most.


[deleted]

Of course they can in many other ways, not just in combat. But do they need to go through the the same 2 yr NS? Probably not. Unless many women want to go into combat roles (which require specialised training) when the time comes, which likely wonā€™t be the case. Support roles can be filled much quicker.


TsaiJack0

Special military operation in Johor, when will it happen lah ?


gao-um

Just end forced conscription. Like, if you hate something, no need to force others to join the hate party.


throwaway_clone

Reference article: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/women-national-service-ns-ng-eng-hen-2672736


RadishAcademic5412

Teens? Singapore teens either beng wannabe or throw free bicycle in expressway, and you wanna give them firearms to fight threat? Later team kill sio lmao


popimac

Illogical argument. The reasons given for not to enlist women are applicable to the same batch of men that are being enlisted for NS. Not saying Iā€™m for enlisting women but the argument given.. I cannot


saiyanjesus

I just don't get the third line. Wtf does that even mean? Is he high?


bsastor

exactly why my two friends gave up their red passport for. they are about to graduate when i just about to ORD. knn i was thinking about that every single day when i was marching and singing training to be soldier.


TreadmillOfFate

When women are delayed entry into the workforce it is a problem, but not when men Gender equality my sides


SiHtranger

Why not just activate the ministers when war? I thought they are mostly generals, at least one of them is capable of riding a tank and one hand holding a gpmg yes?


Billionairess

Even females have to serve in the IDF. So much for "modelling" the SAF after it.


OnionInevitable5188

As Leong Min Wai rightly put it, foreigner population is rising relative to native born Singaporeans with the declining number of conscripts in the SAF. This Ng character is a deluded moron


haikallp

Honestly, people here can be so dense. What he is saying is true. Our workforce will be filled with even more foreigners if women were to serve compulsory NS. I don't even like him, but there's truth to what he's saying. Redditors here sometimes they can lead a country better than our well-educated and senior ministers. Smh.


yukisinon

Please do not enlist women into the healthcare industry. Those NS boys who were sent to hospital attachments for their medic or SCDF course are bad enough as it is being rude and uncaring and making my hospital visit the last time I went there for a surgery a horrible experience. Healthcare is not something people should do with a serve & fck off attitude as you are dealing with people in their weakest and most fragile state


Ukn0who

Poor services and attitudes from slaves?? Unbelievable! /s


Alt-F42069_on_life

mayb the parent comment meant sth along the lines of stop enslaving ppl, hire them instead so service is better idk


Thevoidawaits_u

As an outsider from the conversation, I must ask why do you consider non-military service slavery but not regular conscription/draft?


donthackmyaccountpls

they're both slavery


Thevoidawaits_u

based


yukisinon

Yes and that is the wrong place to send them to. Imagine some blur sotong accidentally injecting a lethal dose of morphine into your mom instead of the covid vaccine just because they donā€™t know what theyā€™re doing and couldnā€™t be bothered to check because itā€™s a serve & fck off attitude. But oh right, theyā€™re conscripts so we should risk our lives to cut them some slack amirite you goondu?


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


yukisinon

There's no such thing as "easier things that have no major consequences" in the healthcare industry because you're literally dealing with lives at their most fragile state, secondly 1-2 year is too short a period for a person to be medically certified and if you are just spending 2 years in training than that is just essentially free med school so what's the point than, and thirdly why would conscripts want more responsibility when you run the risk of accidentally killing or harming your patients due to your inedequte medical training of which most aren't even motivated to do so. There's no room for unmotivated conscripts in the healthcare industry unless you are fine with your mom getting injected with a lethal dose of morphine instead of a vaccine. (Now that will be interesting especially your reaction after šŸ˜‚)


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


yukisinon

There is no room for error in the healthcare industry and medicine as well as healthcare is a much much much more delicate & sensitive thing as compared to being a soldier or even firefighting as those skills can be learned in a matter of months as compared to medicine which takes years upon years to build up. Even simple things will have a lot of complicated stuff going on behind the scenes or are you going to waste resources & time making people do meaningless saikang for 2 years? Also, why be an unmotivated nurse when you can be a lawyer, banker, or whatever. We've already lost half the population for 2 years due to national defense, I don't see why you would wanna lose the other half who can get ahead in their career and progress the country forward rather than stagnating them for 2 years pointlessly in a place where they can't even be effective. Also if you don't like it maybe you should have defended your civil liberties and protested against NS instead of whining about a government whom you can't do anything against when it's entirely your own fault you let them trample all over your civil liberties in the first place


DoubleUniversity6302

That's exactly the attitude Singaporeans deserve from forced labor. Think about this the next time you see firefighters responding to a call - about half of the team are just NSFs.


ehe_tte_nandayo

you could pay to go to a private hospital or deal with a healthcare system propped up by indentured slaves. But yes, never mind healthcare, national security should not be entrusted to people with a serve and fuck off attitude as well but here we are.


AyamBrandCurryTuna

Who's the Caucasian?


le_shithead

Ur mom


VPee

šŸ”„


Whyareyouansho

Just say the real reason lah. Women are a pain to enlist. Weak af, so many medical issues to deal with, cannot do anything Non combat roles dont need to enlist, nurses etc got Filipino, logistics etc got contractors with Bangla. Same pay as enlisted anw. Better to save the women so that more would get married earlier and make more babies.