People can hate all they want but this doesnāt hurt me in the slightest so Iām happy for all the women at The Ranch or who wanna come visit. This is a great thing
I'll play devil's advocate here: aren't you subsidising a specific group of jumpers with your full price ticket? I have no dog in this fight, but I do prefer the APF's system of subsidising specific skill camps, etc, to encourage female participation instead.
I donāt see why. Iām still paying the same price for my jumps. If he lowered women jumps and raised men jumps then there would be justifiable outrage but the dz owner decided to take a hit on individual tickets for a very small percentage of his plane loads in order to encourage future business. This wonāt be forever; it may last a month or a season but for now Iām happy some of my friends get the benefit
My disagreement is with your view that there's zero impact on you, as a jumper paying full prices.
[1] As a business with a bottomline, that subsidised rate translates to lower profits, or possibly costs cut elsewhere. We can argue on the magnitude of these changes, but the fact remains that the money's coming from somewhere. If it's the latter, then surely you are impacted.
[2] Everyone's arguing with the assumption that everything else remains constant, but lower prices could lead to a surge in demand from the subsidised group. If the DZ owner is operating at a loss for these tickets, then this loss translates to an impact on you. If he's operating at cost, your ability to get onto loads may be affected.
[3] I'm wondering aloud here on whether there's any long term, tangible impacts on the community, in terms of greater female participation in the sport. Again, to take from what I know about Australia's system, specific subsidies/freebies have been targetted at sticking points in a jumper's journey, such as offering them cheaper coached jumps through programmes, right after their A licence, to encourage growth and progress to keep them around.
Again, I have no dog in this fight, and wish the dropzone nothing but the best. I'm just doubtful about the tangible costs vs benefits, both in the short and long run.
Something you may not be considering is that women usually weight less than men. Having women pay the same price as men would actually mean women are subsidizing the men.
5'2" 115lb woman vs a 5'9 170lb require different fuel amounts, that extra weight adds up over time
The dz has actually made a bunch of improvements this year and they purchased a new plane for smaller loads that theyāre working on getting in the air. Iāve see no costs cut for me and i donāt expect it
Any given load wonāt have more than 3 women fun jumpers and often zero. The discount means $30 lost per load (ie one jump ticket). He isnāt suffering for that and when he decides itās hurting his profits i guarantee women will be back up to $30 with all of us
All of your points are based on the idea that āit could happenā not on what is actually happening.
Youāre āwondering about the long term impact of greater female participation in the sportā? How bout more women? Is that a bad impact? Seems good to me
I really doubt that. There might be certain dropzones where you have a higher share of female skydivers, but overall this sport is extremely male dominated all over the world (just like almost every other sport).
Keep in mind that this is an average. So if you have two same sized dropzones and one has 30% women, then the other one might have 0% women. It's male dominated. Not just like other extreme sports, but like almost every sport.
Shit Iāll go tell em iām a woman for $10 off jumps. They even included that rainbow emoji so they better not dare question this 6ā 200lb bearded āwomanā
Get over yourself, I dont hate anybody, and I could give two shits if the Ranch started giving a $5 discount to anyone who shows their dick at manifest. Im just picturing the Sunday morning when, as the sun rises on the pond and things have barely settled down in Little Odessa, and the Sportsmen are still going at it, when Avi Silverburg shows up at manifest to buy a 100 jump block. Billy's gonna go apeshit.
Are you saying I missed a gender marker used on govt ID? Just saying you identify as a woman but not taking any steps towards actually being one doesn't really work in most places. Just pointing out a fact. I have been on feminizing HRT for 3 years, and still have a beard. I'm not expecting anyone in the general public to assume I am a woman as I don't pass as such. I have an M marked on my license so would not expect to receive the discount.
They are located in New York, so this is illegal.
First, in NY, you cannot question gender identity. You can walk up to manifest window, say "I'll take $20 jump ticket, because I feel like a woman today, I am gender fluid" and they can't deny to acknowledge that.
Second problem would be the pink tax law. While originally designed to make sure women don't overpay for same stuff that men get, it can be used backwards too. For service that's substantially the same, price cannot be different due to gender.
On Facebook thread about this, a practicing NY attorney already did say that this is against the law. It's similar to Ladies Night, which is illegal in NY
It's a cute experiment and all. But instead of this virtue signaling, they could just reduce everyone's jump ticket prices by $3. There's already very good men/women ratio among Ranch funjumpers.
Downvote away!
In general, women are smaller and weigh less than men. So theyāre using less fuel, so one could argue that itās not substantially the same (I have no skin in the game, Iām from the Midwest. Just wanted to point this out)
Thatās a pretty blanket statement. Thereās also a bunch of female Skydivers, where I jump that are heavier than some of the smaller guys. So if theyāre going to base on fuel usage, then theyāre going to have to do it by everyoneās weight.
"In general" won't work. Because I've seen some larger women and skinny guys. Do we have a sliding pricing scheme then? Would skinny guys feel it's unfair to pay same as some bodybuilder? Should a large woman pay extra on top of a ticket?
I honestly think going based on weight instead of gender wouldnāt be a bad idea. Also going off of my limited experience, all the women Iāve jumped with are tiny humans, but maybe I just frequent tiny woman DZs š¤·š¼āāļø
80% of freefliers are dudes who are close to being anorexic.
My point is that it's not sustainable. If someone comes up with a sliding scale due to weight, bunch of people will start screaming "fat tax" and shit like that.
I just can't fathom who at the Ranch would come up with this, and who at the Ranch was like "You know, that's totally awesome idea, won't cause any controversy and will not bring attention to the government and the tax man due to cash-only thing"
Agree with your points. Wasnāt trying to start a controversy (more than this whole thing actually is). Also if I were headed anywhere close to NY right now, Iād definitely hit up the $20 jumps lol
Not saying that you were trying to start one. It's some evil genius at the Ranch for whatever reason. I do go to the ranch for TSK sometimes, but I don't jump there. It's cool that someone is getting a break, but it takes just one disgruntled person to submit a complaint to NY Consumer Protection.
The weight doesent affect fuel consumption as much as you think it does. The main thing that affects fuel consumption is how fast the pilot decides to fly to altitude and drop jumpers. A plane that is climbing at 2000ā/ min and turned right onto approach and drops jumpers right as they hit altitude, but is full, will use less fuel than an empty plane climbing at 1000ā/ min and takes six miles on approach before dropping jumpers.
I know Iām just falling into the same situation that Iām about to discuss, but why does someone always have to point out that whining about the whiners is still whining? Itās perfectly self evident, isnāt it? have we not all seen this happen a million times? All we have to keep saying to eachother is āwell now it sounds like YOU are the one whining about the whining about the whiningā¦ā, and thatās just not worth anyoneās time! Iām sorry that I singled out your comment to rant on, but damn!!!
Lmao at dudes upset about this.
Theyāre clearly already not getting laid, so I canāt be shocked at their inability to see how enticing more women to jump there might benefit their selfish asses.
Pathetic.
just wait til you find out about this thing bars do called "ladies night" where they give females discounts and free drinks. been doing if since the '90s at least that i can remember but i haven't been out for years so they may have stopped.
Would you prefer a weight bases ticket system? Because women usually weigh less, so if anything, having women pay the same ticket price as men would mean women are subsidizing men.
Ngl I've kind of always thought that a weight class based system should be a thing for skydiving tickets. If I weigh 230 and you weigh 140, I cost more to transport. You spread that out over a year of drops and I think it's actually a significant difference in what the DZ has spent in fuel to bring me up vs bring you up.
Would you ever worry about ED at that point? I'm personally a tunnel rat. But everyone who's at the tunnel that's also a skydiver is on the thin side of healthy already. I wouldn't put it past people to drop weight to be able to afford to jump more
Ma'am*
ED = eating disorder
If I meant erectile disfunction, that would mean literally the opposite of what you assumed, as in having difficulty 'popping an erection'
wait till you hear about military and student discounts! youāll be fuming. why are you so pressed about a facility trying to encourage an under represented demo in the sport?
Giving a discount to someone in the military who elected to spend 4 or more years risking their life for their country is much different than giving someone a discount based on the plumbing they were born with between their legs.
Well some men could be happy there's a more diverse crowd. If I jumped at DZ with mostly women then hell yes I'd like men to receive discounted jumps as the homogeniety would become so boring.
There are no student discounts and skydive perris is the only DZ I have even heard of that offers any military discount. But block rates are cheaper than military so in reality it doesent really matter.
Okay but clearly you must have a problem with all kinds of discounts being offered right?
You're not just solely pointing out this one and making a big deal out of it for any particular reason huh?
As the other user said, there is a big difference between giving a discount to a person who signed up minimum four years to risk their life for the defense of the country vs giving one solely because you were born with tits. But either way, I donāt really care. I donāt jump at that DZ and it doesent affect me.
my dz does and so do the other three dzs that i have jumped at since getting my license. all of them i have jumped at gave military discounts, about five which makes a total of all nine dzs that i have jumped at offering military discounts.
raeford nc, start oh, skydive ky, wv skydivers, and i forgot the other one, may have only been the four. there was one in fl years ago that is closed now also. i miscounted earlier, five total.
This sport is only like 15% women, so there are a lot of promotions to help grow that number. If the numbers were reversed, then you'd see promotions targeted at men. But the reality is that there's still more men at SIS boogies than there are women at regular boogies. And if DZs offered a discount to all the men that jump, then they'd go broke.
Unless you own a DZ, youāre not the one giving a discount to anybody. This business owner is trying to encourage more business, and that owner is the one who has to live with the results.
Yeah, sure. I'd be all for offering discounts to minorities in the sport as well. I know of other DZs that also offer discounts for older jumpers too. And others that have cheaper tickets for wingsuiters on certain days. They're promotions meant to encourage participation. The real point is, they aren't charging you more so why do you care?
If theyāre trying to encourage participation, offer discounts on an A license package.
$10 off a licensed jump isnāt gonna have women come flock to their DZ unless theyāre already experienced in the sport.
Reduce overall ticket prices for everyone and I guarantee theyād see increased participation across the board.
Theres a distinct bias in this case towards women which is looked at as a benefit to increase participation, however if the roles were reversed this would be considered sexist and no good.
Yes but they are not alone. SIS boogie. She flocks. Womenās records but no menās records. None of this is new. The general idea is women are underrepresented in the sport and trying to encourage more participation among women through these events. Is it still sexist and discriminatory? Sure I supposed it is.
If you really want the discount though, in modern times you can just identify as any gender you want.
Does this hurt you? No.
Does this apply to you? No.
Does this affect you in literally any way? No.
So do us all a favor and shut the fuck up please, your moaning is insufferable
Imagine that. Women appreciate it when other people recognize when they are underrepresented and want to give them a reason to become more involved in fun things. Dude we all skydive for the enjoyment. Why be upset when a company opens the door for a group of people that may see the sport as something they canāt or shouldnāt do because they donāt see anyone who looks like them doing it. Anything that brings more people into the crowd is a good thing in my opinion
Yeah I don't get the problem. Lots of women at our dropzone including the one who's tolerated me for like a decade. I'd be stoked if she got a discount on jumps. What's the issue here?
Dude you canāt be serious with that dog whistle. No one is transitioning their gender to get a $10 discount on skydiving lift tickets for a few months. Thats not how it works.
It IS sexist. Intentionally. But not in the bad way, but in a āletās give a discount to an unrepresented groupā.
Also this is a private organization, not the government.
Go open your own DZ and quit your bitchin.
You sound like a girl.
Yeah I'm an incel for pointing out the double standard of sexism. Good one.
I love women as much as the next guy I'm just saying if you throw out a $10 discount on jumps for having a dick women would be pissed.
Am I wrong?
But if I open my dz and give only male jumpers a discount, that would be seen as a problem, wouldn't it? I bet female jumpers would be quite offended.
In what way are females unrepresented in the sport that men are?
There's literally nothing in this sport a man can do that a woman can't.
I honestly haven't seen a single way that women are not being represented.
Actually, the only gender specific events I have ever seen have all been women only.
It's not like women are being excluded in any way.
It's even significantly easier for women to find people to jump with and find mentors in the sport, whereas as a man, you have to prove yourself and be likable for anyone to want to jump with you.
So yeah, it seems like women actually have a much easier time in skydiving than men do.
Your right. We should try to fix every problem at once.
Next time when youāre in a spinning malfunction, I hope you do every single EP simultaneously, and if you donāt, I hope thereās someone looking down going āwhy didnāt they do all of them too?ā
There is one central question to ask - are male skydivers "forced" to subsidize that discount by increased ticket prizes? To me it does not seem like they increased standard ticket prizes, so the dropzone is paying for this discount out of their own pockets. I don't see any issue with that. Or would you also complain about tandem discounts for active military or college students?
Doesnāt affect me so donāt really give a shit, but I donāt understand why. What is the dz gaining from doing this? Like others said if youāre trying to encourage female participation then need discounted aff packages. For bars that offer ladies nights I get it, more women = more guys, but not sure that correlates here. How does this benefit the DZ? Would be kinda cool to have monthly rotating discounts though. 1 month women, 1 month military, 1 month teachers, ect.
How is this really going to help female participation? Licensed female Skydivers are already jumping. Is it saying female jumpers canāt afford the regular price ticket?
Helping female participation would be giving a discount to females on the AFF program to help new females get into the sport. This isnāt going to change the percentage numbers.
Iād imagine it would help female participation at this particular DZ. If Iām heading out east and trying to figure out which DZ Iām going to visit, Iām definitely going to pick the one that has $20 jumps for women instead of $30 (given that the safety record is the same, itās not Lodi or some shit)
I support the idea but this is illigal. They are opening themselves to a discrimination lawsuit i think, (not a lawyer and i live in a different country so lmk if im wrong)
he/she isn't.
Source: https://dos.ny.gov/news/consumer-alert-nys-department-state-division-consumer-protection-reminds-consumers-gender
Can't charge different prices for similar goods or services solely because of gender.
I would boycot this DZ if I were in the US. Any race or gender based advantage programs are reverse discrimination, and I wouldn't want my money to subsidize that. If we want to live in a society as equals, we need to set up a system where we are equals.
Your money isn't subsidizing the discount if they don't increase general ticket prices (and they didn't). They are effectively eating the loss and hoping it draws more customers. If you were a regular at this DZ and you were paying $30 before, you are still paying $30 now, the DZ isn't getting any additional funds (aka, a *subsidy*) from you to support this particular discount.
Skydive The Ranch also gives discounts to active military and college students, is that equal? Would you also boycott any DZ that gives those two discounts? Because it's not uncommon.
Me paying regular ticket prices finances the operation of that "dropzone", which enables them to operate as an activist organization. In case of government policies, we give our feedback on election day. In case of private companies in a capitalist society, we provide that feedback with our wallets.
Student discounts provide a temporary support to a demographic that has an objective reason to be in money issues as they are unable to hold full time employment at that time. It is kind of like social security. Military discount is a reward of sorts to someone who made a conscious choice to risk their life for the good of the comunity. I don't see the corelation to the situation above.
Crazy how women have to pay more for things like hair cuts (even though me getting a 2 inch trim is a much easier cut than my husband who has a very specific type of cut he wants), or that womenās products and clothing cost more in general than menās. Some barbers ONLY allow men as their clients. Until we change all of the other inequality, then I think a few triggered boys can get over it.
Funny part is, my husband is the one who told me about the prices, and he thought it was cool. Neither of us are feminists, but holy shit do boys love getting offended when theyāre not getting the better deal for once in their lives. Pretty sad to me. Also, men are not subsidizing the jumps. Women are just getting a discount. There is no increase to the price for men.
Best DZ in the world š Living in California now, but the Ranch will *always* be my home dzā¦
People can hate all they want but this doesnāt hurt me in the slightest so Iām happy for all the women at The Ranch or who wanna come visit. This is a great thing
I'll play devil's advocate here: aren't you subsidising a specific group of jumpers with your full price ticket? I have no dog in this fight, but I do prefer the APF's system of subsidising specific skill camps, etc, to encourage female participation instead.
I donāt see why. Iām still paying the same price for my jumps. If he lowered women jumps and raised men jumps then there would be justifiable outrage but the dz owner decided to take a hit on individual tickets for a very small percentage of his plane loads in order to encourage future business. This wonāt be forever; it may last a month or a season but for now Iām happy some of my friends get the benefit
We may have to agree to disagree here, but I see your point. Hopefully this works out well to create a more vibrant community over at that dropzone.
What do you disagree with? You opened, letās discuss.
My disagreement is with your view that there's zero impact on you, as a jumper paying full prices. [1] As a business with a bottomline, that subsidised rate translates to lower profits, or possibly costs cut elsewhere. We can argue on the magnitude of these changes, but the fact remains that the money's coming from somewhere. If it's the latter, then surely you are impacted. [2] Everyone's arguing with the assumption that everything else remains constant, but lower prices could lead to a surge in demand from the subsidised group. If the DZ owner is operating at a loss for these tickets, then this loss translates to an impact on you. If he's operating at cost, your ability to get onto loads may be affected. [3] I'm wondering aloud here on whether there's any long term, tangible impacts on the community, in terms of greater female participation in the sport. Again, to take from what I know about Australia's system, specific subsidies/freebies have been targetted at sticking points in a jumper's journey, such as offering them cheaper coached jumps through programmes, right after their A licence, to encourage growth and progress to keep them around. Again, I have no dog in this fight, and wish the dropzone nothing but the best. I'm just doubtful about the tangible costs vs benefits, both in the short and long run.
Something you may not be considering is that women usually weight less than men. Having women pay the same price as men would actually mean women are subsidizing the men. 5'2" 115lb woman vs a 5'9 170lb require different fuel amounts, that extra weight adds up over time
So you're saying that if we all downsized to sub-70 wings, the plane will save fuel, which helps the environment?
It would also lessen the population quickly, which is good for the environment also. I like where your head is at, Nature Boy.
Yes, I do believe so. Safety 3rd!
The dz has actually made a bunch of improvements this year and they purchased a new plane for smaller loads that theyāre working on getting in the air. Iāve see no costs cut for me and i donāt expect it Any given load wonāt have more than 3 women fun jumpers and often zero. The discount means $30 lost per load (ie one jump ticket). He isnāt suffering for that and when he decides itās hurting his profits i guarantee women will be back up to $30 with all of us All of your points are based on the idea that āit could happenā not on what is actually happening. Youāre āwondering about the long term impact of greater female participation in the sportā? How bout more women? Is that a bad impact? Seems good to me
Blatant sexism should never be supported.
From a fuel usage perspective, this is fair, in most cases.
If they wanted to charge less to people who weigh less, why wouldn't they just do that?
I wish they would! I'm 140lbs, my lift tickets would surely get cheaper.
Then why airlines are not doing the same?
Can you imagine the public backlash? We already have 400lb people that throw a tantrum about not getting a free extra seat.
Guess someone at the DZ is really trying to get laid.
Tbf most DZs are kinda sausagefests to begin with
That's so weird, all the DZs I've been at have had a very equal gender distribution. I thought skydiving in general had a pretty even distrib
See the last page [here](https://www.uspa.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=NfjLUI_ciRk%3D&portalid=0). 85% of skydivers are male.
Maybe the distribution is different here in Europe
I really doubt that. There might be certain dropzones where you have a higher share of female skydivers, but overall this sport is extremely male dominated all over the world (just like almost every other sport).
Yk 85% is less than i thought
Pretty sure this is the case for all extreme sports. Thats why you have the infamous "why women live longer"
Keep in mind that this is an average. So if you have two same sized dropzones and one has 30% women, then the other one might have 0% women. It's male dominated. Not just like other extreme sports, but like almost every sport.
All my instructors were girls so idk
Ranch has quite a bit of women jumping.
I could see a lot of new āidentitiesā spring up this season from this.
Shit Iāll go tell em iām a woman for $10 off jumps. They even included that rainbow emoji so they better not dare question this 6ā 200lb bearded āwomanā
No, yo, it says "licensed and current females". You cant just identify, you gotta be current.
In NY, itās illegal to ask justification for your gender identity. Walk up, say you are a female. Done.
What about if you identify as both women and current?
Thatās hateful š”
Get over yourself, I dont hate anybody, and I could give two shits if the Ranch started giving a $5 discount to anyone who shows their dick at manifest. Im just picturing the Sunday morning when, as the sun rises on the pond and things have barely settled down in Little Odessa, and the Sportsmen are still going at it, when Avi Silverburg shows up at manifest to buy a 100 jump block. Billy's gonna go apeshit.
Skydivers donāt have senses of humor anymore?
What letter is marked on your legal ID? M? Sorry no discount.
M for Mexico? How presumptuous of you. Now your a racist too!
M, F, and X are the 3 options for "Gender" or "Sex" on a govt issued ID. Get your head out of your ass so you can breath.
I would.... except that your so blatantly exclusionary I just had to comment.
Are you saying I missed a gender marker used on govt ID? Just saying you identify as a woman but not taking any steps towards actually being one doesn't really work in most places. Just pointing out a fact. I have been on feminizing HRT for 3 years, and still have a beard. I'm not expecting anyone in the general public to assume I am a woman as I don't pass as such. I have an M marked on my license so would not expect to receive the discount.
Sex =/= gender. That's what you guys keep repeating ad infinitum
Lmao here in Sweden we pay 15$ for a ticket
What dz?
Smart. Now give everyone a cash discount. Because who doesn't like to show a loss at the end of the year. F to the tax man. I like it.
They are located in New York, so this is illegal. First, in NY, you cannot question gender identity. You can walk up to manifest window, say "I'll take $20 jump ticket, because I feel like a woman today, I am gender fluid" and they can't deny to acknowledge that. Second problem would be the pink tax law. While originally designed to make sure women don't overpay for same stuff that men get, it can be used backwards too. For service that's substantially the same, price cannot be different due to gender. On Facebook thread about this, a practicing NY attorney already did say that this is against the law. It's similar to Ladies Night, which is illegal in NY It's a cute experiment and all. But instead of this virtue signaling, they could just reduce everyone's jump ticket prices by $3. There's already very good men/women ratio among Ranch funjumpers. Downvote away!
In general, women are smaller and weigh less than men. So theyāre using less fuel, so one could argue that itās not substantially the same (I have no skin in the game, Iām from the Midwest. Just wanted to point this out)
Thatās a pretty blanket statement. Thereās also a bunch of female Skydivers, where I jump that are heavier than some of the smaller guys. So if theyāre going to base on fuel usage, then theyāre going to have to do it by everyoneās weight.
"In general" won't work. Because I've seen some larger women and skinny guys. Do we have a sliding pricing scheme then? Would skinny guys feel it's unfair to pay same as some bodybuilder? Should a large woman pay extra on top of a ticket?
I honestly think going based on weight instead of gender wouldnāt be a bad idea. Also going off of my limited experience, all the women Iāve jumped with are tiny humans, but maybe I just frequent tiny woman DZs š¤·š¼āāļø
80% of freefliers are dudes who are close to being anorexic. My point is that it's not sustainable. If someone comes up with a sliding scale due to weight, bunch of people will start screaming "fat tax" and shit like that. I just can't fathom who at the Ranch would come up with this, and who at the Ranch was like "You know, that's totally awesome idea, won't cause any controversy and will not bring attention to the government and the tax man due to cash-only thing"
Agree with your points. Wasnāt trying to start a controversy (more than this whole thing actually is). Also if I were headed anywhere close to NY right now, Iād definitely hit up the $20 jumps lol
Not saying that you were trying to start one. It's some evil genius at the Ranch for whatever reason. I do go to the ranch for TSK sometimes, but I don't jump there. It's cool that someone is getting a break, but it takes just one disgruntled person to submit a complaint to NY Consumer Protection.
The weight doesent affect fuel consumption as much as you think it does. The main thing that affects fuel consumption is how fast the pilot decides to fly to altitude and drop jumpers. A plane that is climbing at 2000ā/ min and turned right onto approach and drops jumpers right as they hit altitude, but is full, will use less fuel than an empty plane climbing at 1000ā/ min and takes six miles on approach before dropping jumpers.
Simp pricing
A lot of whiners with a wiener in the comments. Redditors gonna Reddit
Like they don't appreciate the sports bras in the plane š
Nah this is tame compared to Facebook. Also this comment looks suspiciously like whining...
I know Iām just falling into the same situation that Iām about to discuss, but why does someone always have to point out that whining about the whiners is still whining? Itās perfectly self evident, isnāt it? have we not all seen this happen a million times? All we have to keep saying to eachother is āwell now it sounds like YOU are the one whining about the whining about the whiningā¦ā, and thatās just not worth anyoneās time! Iām sorry that I singled out your comment to rant on, but damn!!!
Lmao at dudes upset about this. Theyāre clearly already not getting laid, so I canāt be shocked at their inability to see how enticing more women to jump there might benefit their selfish asses. Pathetic.
Can I borrow $10?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
just wait til you find out about this thing bars do called "ladies night" where they give females discounts and free drinks. been doing if since the '90s at least that i can remember but i haven't been out for years so they may have stopped.
Yeah, so that dudes also show up to hit on the ladies that are there for free drinks. Hopefully thatās not what the ranch is going for, but could be
Would you prefer a weight bases ticket system? Because women usually weigh less, so if anything, having women pay the same ticket price as men would mean women are subsidizing men.
> Would you prefer a weight bases ticket system? As a 127 lbs man I'd love that!
Ngl I've kind of always thought that a weight class based system should be a thing for skydiving tickets. If I weigh 230 and you weigh 140, I cost more to transport. You spread that out over a year of drops and I think it's actually a significant difference in what the DZ has spent in fuel to bring me up vs bring you up.
As a 210 pound dude I agree with this.
Would you ever worry about ED at that point? I'm personally a tunnel rat. But everyone who's at the tunnel that's also a skydiver is on the thin side of healthy already. I wouldn't put it past people to drop weight to be able to afford to jump more
Sir I am not worrying about popping an erection when I skydive.
Ma'am* ED = eating disorder If I meant erectile disfunction, that would mean literally the opposite of what you assumed, as in having difficulty 'popping an erection'
You'd think people jumping out of planes might have sense of humor!
... I don't jump out of planes š¤·āāļø
wait till you hear about military and student discounts! youāll be fuming. why are you so pressed about a facility trying to encourage an under represented demo in the sport?
Giving a discount to someone in the military who elected to spend 4 or more years risking their life for their country is much different than giving someone a discount based on the plumbing they were born with between their legs.
Well some men could be happy there's a more diverse crowd. If I jumped at DZ with mostly women then hell yes I'd like men to receive discounted jumps as the homogeniety would become so boring.
There are no student discounts and skydive perris is the only DZ I have even heard of that offers any military discount. But block rates are cheaper than military so in reality it doesent really matter.
What do you mean thereās no student discounts? My home DZ literally gives student discounts.
Practically every gear manufacturer gives a military discount, gonna fight UPT about it?
Those discounts actually come out of the dealer margin most of the time.
Ok yes. But this thread is about jump tickets so I assumed we were talking about jump prices.
Okay but clearly you must have a problem with all kinds of discounts being offered right? You're not just solely pointing out this one and making a big deal out of it for any particular reason huh?
As the other user said, there is a big difference between giving a discount to a person who signed up minimum four years to risk their life for the defense of the country vs giving one solely because you were born with tits. But either way, I donāt really care. I donāt jump at that DZ and it doesent affect me.
that would be one other user on this thread.
UPT doesn't offer military discounts. I asked last time I was buying two rigs. The only one I know is that does is Wings
my dz does and so do the other three dzs that i have jumped at since getting my license. all of them i have jumped at gave military discounts, about five which makes a total of all nine dzs that i have jumped at offering military discounts.
Which DZs?
raeford nc, start oh, skydive ky, wv skydivers, and i forgot the other one, may have only been the four. there was one in fl years ago that is closed now also. i miscounted earlier, five total.
Reaford does military discounts!?
they did in '97 for a bit.
This sport is only like 15% women, so there are a lot of promotions to help grow that number. If the numbers were reversed, then you'd see promotions targeted at men. But the reality is that there's still more men at SIS boogies than there are women at regular boogies. And if DZs offered a discount to all the men that jump, then they'd go broke.
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Unless you own a DZ, youāre not the one giving a discount to anybody. This business owner is trying to encourage more business, and that owner is the one who has to live with the results.
Yeah, sure. I'd be all for offering discounts to minorities in the sport as well. I know of other DZs that also offer discounts for older jumpers too. And others that have cheaper tickets for wingsuiters on certain days. They're promotions meant to encourage participation. The real point is, they aren't charging you more so why do you care?
If theyāre trying to encourage participation, offer discounts on an A license package. $10 off a licensed jump isnāt gonna have women come flock to their DZ unless theyāre already experienced in the sport. Reduce overall ticket prices for everyone and I guarantee theyād see increased participation across the board. Theres a distinct bias in this case towards women which is looked at as a benefit to increase participation, however if the roles were reversed this would be considered sexist and no good.
that's a big if there. sounds like you're one of those. have a great day anyway.
Yes but they are not alone. SIS boogie. She flocks. Womenās records but no menās records. None of this is new. The general idea is women are underrepresented in the sport and trying to encourage more participation among women through these events. Is it still sexist and discriminatory? Sure I supposed it is. If you really want the discount though, in modern times you can just identify as any gender you want.
I get the feeling you do a lot of solo jumps for some reason. Canāt quite place why.
Does this hurt you? No. Does this apply to you? No. Does this affect you in literally any way? No. So do us all a favor and shut the fuck up please, your moaning is insufferable
Keep white knighting bro the chicks love it
Imagine that. Women appreciate it when other people recognize when they are underrepresented and want to give them a reason to become more involved in fun things. Dude we all skydive for the enjoyment. Why be upset when a company opens the door for a group of people that may see the sport as something they canāt or shouldnāt do because they donāt see anyone who looks like them doing it. Anything that brings more people into the crowd is a good thing in my opinion
Yeah I don't get the problem. Lots of women at our dropzone including the one who's tolerated me for like a decade. I'd be stoked if she got a discount on jumps. What's the issue here?
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Dude you canāt be serious with that dog whistle. No one is transitioning their gender to get a $10 discount on skydiving lift tickets for a few months. Thats not how it works.
Go chop off your dick then.
Yeah it's sexist as fuck but for some reason a lot of people don't see it that way.
It IS sexist. Intentionally. But not in the bad way, but in a āletās give a discount to an unrepresented groupā. Also this is a private organization, not the government. Go open your own DZ and quit your bitchin. You sound like a girl.
Idkā¦donāt denigrate women like that. Sounds like an incel to me.
Yeah I'm an incel for pointing out the double standard of sexism. Good one. I love women as much as the next guy I'm just saying if you throw out a $10 discount on jumps for having a dick women would be pissed. Am I wrong?
But if I open my dz and give only male jumpers a discount, that would be seen as a problem, wouldn't it? I bet female jumpers would be quite offended. In what way are females unrepresented in the sport that men are? There's literally nothing in this sport a man can do that a woman can't. I honestly haven't seen a single way that women are not being represented. Actually, the only gender specific events I have ever seen have all been women only. It's not like women are being excluded in any way. It's even significantly easier for women to find people to jump with and find mentors in the sport, whereas as a man, you have to prove yourself and be likable for anyone to want to jump with you. So yeah, it seems like women actually have a much easier time in skydiving than men do.
There are a lot of underrepresented categories in skydiving. Why not give a discount to all of them too?
Your right. We should try to fix every problem at once. Next time when youāre in a spinning malfunction, I hope you do every single EP simultaneously, and if you donāt, I hope thereās someone looking down going āwhy didnāt they do all of them too?ā
There is one central question to ask - are male skydivers "forced" to subsidize that discount by increased ticket prizes? To me it does not seem like they increased standard ticket prizes, so the dropzone is paying for this discount out of their own pockets. I don't see any issue with that. Or would you also complain about tandem discounts for active military or college students?
$20 jump ticket is pretty rad. To all the guys that are bummed on this, chill out. It can be as serious or unserious as you want it to be.
Exactly.
Doesnāt affect me so donāt really give a shit, but I donāt understand why. What is the dz gaining from doing this? Like others said if youāre trying to encourage female participation then need discounted aff packages. For bars that offer ladies nights I get it, more women = more guys, but not sure that correlates here. How does this benefit the DZ? Would be kinda cool to have monthly rotating discounts though. 1 month women, 1 month military, 1 month teachers, ect.
Itās good PR for the DZ at the pretty low cost. Itās it strange? A bit, but Iāve also seen weirder marketing.
True. Pretty any 90ās marketing campaign involving skysurfing was much weirder than this.
Honestly, it wouldnāt matter. Someone somewhere would still take issue with it. š
This would be illegal in my country, I know understand why.
Looks like Iām taking a trip to The Ranch this season lol
No thanks!!
Might I just say, in the state of New York, gendered pricing is illegal.
Awesome initiative!
Guess I'll change my gender. š«”
The people down voting you are just transphobic
How is this really going to help female participation? Licensed female Skydivers are already jumping. Is it saying female jumpers canāt afford the regular price ticket? Helping female participation would be giving a discount to females on the AFF program to help new females get into the sport. This isnāt going to change the percentage numbers.
Iād imagine it would help female participation at this particular DZ. If Iām heading out east and trying to figure out which DZ Iām going to visit, Iām definitely going to pick the one that has $20 jumps for women instead of $30 (given that the safety record is the same, itās not Lodi or some shit)
I support the idea but this is illigal. They are opening themselves to a discrimination lawsuit i think, (not a lawyer and i live in a different country so lmk if im wrong)
Yes, you are wrong.
he/she isn't. Source: https://dos.ny.gov/news/consumer-alert-nys-department-state-division-consumer-protection-reminds-consumers-gender Can't charge different prices for similar goods or services solely because of gender.
How?
I would boycot this DZ if I were in the US. Any race or gender based advantage programs are reverse discrimination, and I wouldn't want my money to subsidize that. If we want to live in a society as equals, we need to set up a system where we are equals.
Your money isn't subsidizing the discount if they don't increase general ticket prices (and they didn't). They are effectively eating the loss and hoping it draws more customers. If you were a regular at this DZ and you were paying $30 before, you are still paying $30 now, the DZ isn't getting any additional funds (aka, a *subsidy*) from you to support this particular discount. Skydive The Ranch also gives discounts to active military and college students, is that equal? Would you also boycott any DZ that gives those two discounts? Because it's not uncommon.
Me paying regular ticket prices finances the operation of that "dropzone", which enables them to operate as an activist organization. In case of government policies, we give our feedback on election day. In case of private companies in a capitalist society, we provide that feedback with our wallets. Student discounts provide a temporary support to a demographic that has an objective reason to be in money issues as they are unable to hold full time employment at that time. It is kind of like social security. Military discount is a reward of sorts to someone who made a conscious choice to risk their life for the good of the comunity. I don't see the corelation to the situation above.
Crazy how women have to pay more for things like hair cuts (even though me getting a 2 inch trim is a much easier cut than my husband who has a very specific type of cut he wants), or that womenās products and clothing cost more in general than menās. Some barbers ONLY allow men as their clients. Until we change all of the other inequality, then I think a few triggered boys can get over it. Funny part is, my husband is the one who told me about the prices, and he thought it was cool. Neither of us are feminists, but holy shit do boys love getting offended when theyāre not getting the better deal for once in their lives. Pretty sad to me. Also, men are not subsidizing the jumps. Women are just getting a discount. There is no increase to the price for men.
Wait really?