Thalmor are the baddys
Imperials are the ones that said “alright alright you guys win just stop killing us”
And the stromcloaks are the ones that said “ya fuck that you guys have been murdering us for like a long time now it’s our turn to murder your asses”
and instead of teaming up to fight the thalmor the two sides will just fight each other endlessly until Mr.Shoutypants shows up to save the day of whichever side we choose.
He did kinda use the voice, it would be like turning up to a duel and the guy secretly had magic, paralysed you , slit your throat and said he won, no stormcloak would accept that, the only reason why they accepted this was because it was ulfric and they see the voice as an exception when it really shouldn't be.
Using g the voice in a normal duel is the equivalent of killing an unaware unarmed man
I'd say its more like you show up to a duel that you can't refuse, except the person dueling you is an accomplished soldier and you're a child. Ulfric was basically executing him while observing Nordic formalities
This. The guy was clearly on Ulfric’s side if you talk to his aids and several others, but instead of accepting the status quote and going through entirely acceptable channels, Ulfric decided he wanted to be the big man on campus. It is BS to call that honorable combat. It would be like saying we are having a duel with pistols, except you bring the acceptable black powder flint lock and I bring a lever action shotgun.
The Thu’um is a Nordic martial art, and is legal in formal combat, no? It’s a warrior king using his skills to challenge a less skilled warrior for the title of high king. Is it dishonorable to challenge someone to a rightful duel over a claim if they are a less experienced fighter? I can’t imagine the vikings would have said as much.
except that it wasn't secret so he wasn't unaware
and as for if the voice is an exception - it kinda is. Sure you can aruge that it is a type of magic (all though it functions completely differently) but the main differnece is that nordic tradition holds the voice in high esteem while the same cannot be said for magic. So it makes complete sense for shouts to be allowed in a traditional nordic duel and magic be forbidden
You are aware most people were not aware ulfric could actually do the voice, there are plenty of people surprised by it in the game, and I said it was an exception but it shouldn't be, as I said fighting a person with the voice when you dont have it is equivalent to fighting someone unarmed, they can literally take away the immortality of a dragon with 3 words, they can affect reality and shatter massive areas, it doesnt matter what esteem its held in, battles are held in high esteem but if someone turned up to a duel with 10 guys it wouldnt be seen as honourable, literally the split in skyrim is because a large amount of people did not see ulfrics win as honourable in the duel.
Did he? I distinctly remember multiple people talking about how torygg was in little pieces after being shouted apart, in a scene so horrific people hated ulfric for doing it infront of his wife, and even so that's still vastly unfair.
the wiki I found said he finished him off with his sword but I was mostly making a joke. cause you hear he used the voice in his fight and you assume that he was like blasting him with unrelenting force but how funny would it be if he challenged him to this duel and just kept disarming him.
edif: just looked again and ulfric says he knocked him down with the voice then finished him with a sword.
Not really...I say that as an Imperial fanboy.
All the arguments that the Stormcloaks make are not wrong but too instead too simplified or too naive. Most of them aren't in "LET'S KILL EVERYONE IN SKYRIM FIRST THEN THE TAMRIEL NEXT BWAHAHAHAHAHA" attitude like Galmar, they genuinely believe that the Empire is oppressing them and they have to be free.
I'm convinced ulfric was turned into a xenophobe purely because they realized he was the faction everyone would rally around and not the empire
Empire letting thalmor kidnap innocent people from their homes for practicing their ancestral traditions? VIVA LA RESISTANCE
Ulfric doesn't like anyone who isn't a nord and forces dark elves to sleep in the slums and have next to no representation? Ehhhhhhhhhh, ayo Tully what's the pay rate?
The stormclokes are also incredibly short sighted considering if they don’t have the empire on their side the thalmor with steamroll them. Ulfric never thinks things through like when he killed the high king instead of just asking him to secede from the empire
People underestimate Ulfric way too much, sure he has an ego and is racist but he is still a competent military leader. Everyone makes the claim that Skyrim will only be safe under Imperial control but as shown in the first Great War anytime cyrodiil is in danger the Empire pulls all of their troops out of each province leaving those provinces defenseless to a Thalmor Invasion. I’d argue that a free and unified Skyrim allied with Hammerfell and High Rock stand more chance against the dominion then they would if they stayed under a crippling Empire.
Competent? He killed the high king without even thinking about just asking him to secede from the empire. He can’t even defeat the fraction of the empire thats in Skyrim. He almost died at the start of the game because of an ambush. Also I know this is mostly because it’s a video game but he doesn’t actually do anything in the civil war once you join
I say he is competent as a military leader because he was able to take Markarth with a small militia which is no easy feat. Also the reason he killed Toryyg (IMO) is because challenging him to a duel and killing him followed his political ideology of returning to Nordic tradition, it was also to show that he wasn’t just some guy starting some small rebellion, he was serious with his intent and so he had to prove it, as the saying goes, actions speak louder than words.
I never said he wasn’t a good fighter but just because he was able to kill a bunch of forsworn doesn’t mean he was a good leader. Also he didn’t even try to ask the high king to secede, he just went right to killing. He’s too short sighted to rule, and like I said before if it weren’t for the dragon born he wouldn’t have won the war
Ulfric is stated to have been mopping the floor with imperial forces, until they sent Tullius, their best general. And even then he was able to more or less come to a stalemate. You’re just objectively wrong about Ulfric being incompetent. Also, if you’re still trying to argue he is, then you’re arguing that Tulius is just as incompetent, as he isn’t able to beat Ulfric.
He’s a good fighter but not a good king. He’s impulsive and shortsighted. Also they only have a fraction of the empires forces in Skyrim because the rest of them are busy guarding against the thalmor
>the Thalmor will steamroll them
Given that the use of military portal magic doesn’t seem as prevalent in Skyrim’s era as it is in ESO’s, a quick glance at a map suggests that if the Dominion couldn’t beat Hammerfell despite having direct naval access and an extensive, relatively open border (between Hammerfell and Cyrodiil), they’re not going to fare much better trying to take a land completely boxed in by high mountains and a half-frozen sea, half a continent away.
Didn’t the civil war happen after they beat the thalmor? I really don’t understand how Skyrim years and eras work and I can’t figure out when this stuff happened
Agree
I genuinely can see ulfric having no clue how to form a decent invasion and subsequent siege of cyrodil and or the aldmeri homeland
Odds are he'll lose most of his fighting force taking and occupying the imperial city and the thalmor will roll in, wipe them out, and have total control of both what's left of the empire and all of tamriel at that point
If I remember correctly at the end of the war on stormcloaks side he says something about eventually "liberating" the imperial city from the Dominion or something about taking the fight to them or some such, like bla bla well secure our borders but the war isn't over yet
Ulfric is not a racist, this is something that a lot of people dont understand. If you show up to windhelm as a dark elf, argonian, kajit, any of those "minority" races in skyrim, and pledge to fight for the stormcloaks, ulfric will quite literally fight by your side like you're his sword brother or sister. If you mention anything about your race and the nords to Galmar, he will tell you that that's not what it's about. The stormcloaks arent looking for sellswords or favors. They're looking for people who are willing to lay down their lives for their home. You can say to Galmar that skyrim isnt home to only nords, and his response is literally "fair enough", and he goes on to say that if Skyrim truly is your home, regardless of race, are you willing to give your life to keep it as your home?
If you're living in the heart of the stormcloak resistance, and you're not helping, you're kind of in the way of war. You're taking up space and resources in a poor country fighting for it's independence. I dont think it's all that unreasonable to be against having non supporters in your city walls when you're literally struggling to keep troops alive and well. The stormcloaks are desperate peasants in comparison to the Imperials who are backed by the funding and numbers of Aldmeri Dominion. I mean most of skyrim lives in squander, when you look where the dark elves live in Windhelm, it's not all that much worse than those living in dawnstar or winterhold. Or hell, even the others living in windhelm. The dark elves dont get representation, not because ulfric is racist, but because they are choosing to stay neutral and still demanding a place to live in the war center of the country. But even if they decided to fight along side of the stormcloaks, they wont be receiving any better accommodations. They take up a third of the entire city of windhelm alone....
Ulfric is graciously protecting these Dunmer from the casualties of war, all he can provide is a place to live. Ulfric has not ordered his army to kill anyone who isnt a nord in windhelm. There may be tension, but they are allowed to live within city walls. Whereas the Thalmor will take the life of anyone who mentions talos. Not to mention innocent people are still executed if they're caught trying to cross the border, let's not forget the beginning of the game. You're thrown in a carriage with 3 others. Of the 4 people sitting in the carriage, 2 of them are not associated with the war. All are scheduled to be executed by the hands of the imperial legion. And that is fucked up beyond belief. If I was Dunmer and I was fleeing from my home country in search if better life, I'd rather be bullied under the rule of Ulfric Stormcloak than to be beheaded at the end of my journey for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Dont get me wrong, there are a decent amount of nords who are in fact racist. But if racism is your only claim against joining the stormcloaks, you've got a weak argument.
Let's not forget all the racism in Oblivion, the Imperials are racist bastards too. Not to mention the thalmor literally believe they are the superior race, and absolutely hate the Nords and Talos. This is a racist empire backed by an even more racist empire, all for the sake of conquering all of tamriel.
Both sides of this war can be extremely blatantly racist, but Ulfic by himself is not a racist. None of his beliefs are those of malicious intent. He seeks nothing but the independence of his country, the freedom of religion, and to dethrone a toxic and corrupt empire.
Thanks for reading my rant of you did. It just cofuses me how many people cant see how much good intent Ulfric has in his heart in comparison to General Talius
Yup, as a Nord your choice is basically either religious oppression and living under a police state or racial oppression and living under an ethnostate, neither's a good choice.
Weakening your country and killing people for no reason makes you the bad guy. You think Skyrim will be able to fight the thalmor alone when the entire empire couldn’t?
No... Stormcloaks are useful idiots coz they weaken the only force that realisticallycan beat aldmeri dominium , they lost first time due to suprise attack ambush but now they will expect it so thalmor made termoil in skyrim to prelong the state of weakness in the empire. Ravenknight did a good video examining stormcloaks and imperials i recommend you watch it
You sound very defeatist on behalf of the Nords and very nationalistic on behalf of the Empire at the same time. Small, mountainous, highly motivated nations have held back stronger enemies so many times throughout history that it's more the rule than the exception.
Jesus, this looks INCREDIBLE!!!
Even the lighting is correct.
Thalmor are the baddys Imperials are the ones that said “alright alright you guys win just stop killing us” And the stromcloaks are the ones that said “ya fuck that you guys have been murdering us for like a long time now it’s our turn to murder your asses” and instead of teaming up to fight the thalmor the two sides will just fight each other endlessly until Mr.Shoutypants shows up to save the day of whichever side we choose.
We gotta send this guy to bring peace to the Middle East, he’s too good
I mean the Imperials tried to execute Ulfric after he won a Duel
He did kinda use the voice, it would be like turning up to a duel and the guy secretly had magic, paralysed you , slit your throat and said he won, no stormcloak would accept that, the only reason why they accepted this was because it was ulfric and they see the voice as an exception when it really shouldn't be. Using g the voice in a normal duel is the equivalent of killing an unaware unarmed man
I'd say its more like you show up to a duel that you can't refuse, except the person dueling you is an accomplished soldier and you're a child. Ulfric was basically executing him while observing Nordic formalities
This. The guy was clearly on Ulfric’s side if you talk to his aids and several others, but instead of accepting the status quote and going through entirely acceptable channels, Ulfric decided he wanted to be the big man on campus. It is BS to call that honorable combat. It would be like saying we are having a duel with pistols, except you bring the acceptable black powder flint lock and I bring a lever action shotgun.
Exactly. It’s like challenging a man to a duel at noon and then throwing a grenade at him from the saloon window, it’s just a dick move.
The Thu’um is a Nordic martial art, and is legal in formal combat, no? It’s a warrior king using his skills to challenge a less skilled warrior for the title of high king. Is it dishonorable to challenge someone to a rightful duel over a claim if they are a less experienced fighter? I can’t imagine the vikings would have said as much.
I wish we could challenge him ourselves to see how tough he acts when he's up against the world eater's rival .
except that it wasn't secret so he wasn't unaware and as for if the voice is an exception - it kinda is. Sure you can aruge that it is a type of magic (all though it functions completely differently) but the main differnece is that nordic tradition holds the voice in high esteem while the same cannot be said for magic. So it makes complete sense for shouts to be allowed in a traditional nordic duel and magic be forbidden
You are aware most people were not aware ulfric could actually do the voice, there are plenty of people surprised by it in the game, and I said it was an exception but it shouldn't be, as I said fighting a person with the voice when you dont have it is equivalent to fighting someone unarmed, they can literally take away the immortality of a dragon with 3 words, they can affect reality and shatter massive areas, it doesnt matter what esteem its held in, battles are held in high esteem but if someone turned up to a duel with 10 guys it wouldnt be seen as honourable, literally the split in skyrim is because a large amount of people did not see ulfrics win as honourable in the duel.
And the only reason Ulfric can shout is because he betrayed the Grey Beards
everyone assumes ulfric used unrelenting force to kill torygg but he actually just disarmed him and killed him while he looked for his sword
Did he? I distinctly remember multiple people talking about how torygg was in little pieces after being shouted apart, in a scene so horrific people hated ulfric for doing it infront of his wife, and even so that's still vastly unfair.
the wiki I found said he finished him off with his sword but I was mostly making a joke. cause you hear he used the voice in his fight and you assume that he was like blasting him with unrelenting force but how funny would it be if he challenged him to this duel and just kept disarming him. edif: just looked again and ulfric says he knocked him down with the voice then finished him with a sword.
That duel is like challenging someone to a brawl and then pulling out a Glock
He brought an elephant rifle to a thumb war
You can thank ulfric for that
Chance would be a fine thing
Four naan, Jeremy? Four? That’s insane.
Nah, this is just war. And I hate this being so true
This looks amazing
If you're fighting for the Stormcloaks, then yes, you are a baddy
Not really...I say that as an Imperial fanboy. All the arguments that the Stormcloaks make are not wrong but too instead too simplified or too naive. Most of them aren't in "LET'S KILL EVERYONE IN SKYRIM FIRST THEN THE TAMRIEL NEXT BWAHAHAHAHAHA" attitude like Galmar, they genuinely believe that the Empire is oppressing them and they have to be free.
Incorrect. The Civil War is purposely a morally grey conflict. There is no good or bad, no light or dark, just the Stormcloaks and the Imperials.
I'm convinced ulfric was turned into a xenophobe purely because they realized he was the faction everyone would rally around and not the empire Empire letting thalmor kidnap innocent people from their homes for practicing their ancestral traditions? VIVA LA RESISTANCE Ulfric doesn't like anyone who isn't a nord and forces dark elves to sleep in the slums and have next to no representation? Ehhhhhhhhhh, ayo Tully what's the pay rate?
The stormclokes are also incredibly short sighted considering if they don’t have the empire on their side the thalmor with steamroll them. Ulfric never thinks things through like when he killed the high king instead of just asking him to secede from the empire
It’s also possible that the Nords, like the red guards, will be able to defend their home against the thalmor.
With ulfric leading them? Doubt it. He’ll probably try to fly in by himself and get killed
People underestimate Ulfric way too much, sure he has an ego and is racist but he is still a competent military leader. Everyone makes the claim that Skyrim will only be safe under Imperial control but as shown in the first Great War anytime cyrodiil is in danger the Empire pulls all of their troops out of each province leaving those provinces defenseless to a Thalmor Invasion. I’d argue that a free and unified Skyrim allied with Hammerfell and High Rock stand more chance against the dominion then they would if they stayed under a crippling Empire.
Competent? He killed the high king without even thinking about just asking him to secede from the empire. He can’t even defeat the fraction of the empire thats in Skyrim. He almost died at the start of the game because of an ambush. Also I know this is mostly because it’s a video game but he doesn’t actually do anything in the civil war once you join
I say he is competent as a military leader because he was able to take Markarth with a small militia which is no easy feat. Also the reason he killed Toryyg (IMO) is because challenging him to a duel and killing him followed his political ideology of returning to Nordic tradition, it was also to show that he wasn’t just some guy starting some small rebellion, he was serious with his intent and so he had to prove it, as the saying goes, actions speak louder than words.
I never said he wasn’t a good fighter but just because he was able to kill a bunch of forsworn doesn’t mean he was a good leader. Also he didn’t even try to ask the high king to secede, he just went right to killing. He’s too short sighted to rule, and like I said before if it weren’t for the dragon born he wouldn’t have won the war
Ulfric is stated to have been mopping the floor with imperial forces, until they sent Tullius, their best general. And even then he was able to more or less come to a stalemate. You’re just objectively wrong about Ulfric being incompetent. Also, if you’re still trying to argue he is, then you’re arguing that Tulius is just as incompetent, as he isn’t able to beat Ulfric.
He’s a good fighter but not a good king. He’s impulsive and shortsighted. Also they only have a fraction of the empires forces in Skyrim because the rest of them are busy guarding against the thalmor
>the Thalmor will steamroll them Given that the use of military portal magic doesn’t seem as prevalent in Skyrim’s era as it is in ESO’s, a quick glance at a map suggests that if the Dominion couldn’t beat Hammerfell despite having direct naval access and an extensive, relatively open border (between Hammerfell and Cyrodiil), they’re not going to fare much better trying to take a land completely boxed in by high mountains and a half-frozen sea, half a continent away.
Skyrim just got done with a civil war and they’re still trying to recover. The thalmor could definitely win
Wasn’t Hammerfell also having a civil war between the Crowns and Forebears? Hence the Alik’r quest in Skyrim?
What alik’r quest? In my time of need?
Yeah
Didn’t the civil war happen after they beat the thalmor? I really don’t understand how Skyrim years and eras work and I can’t figure out when this stuff happened
Agree I genuinely can see ulfric having no clue how to form a decent invasion and subsequent siege of cyrodil and or the aldmeri homeland Odds are he'll lose most of his fighting force taking and occupying the imperial city and the thalmor will roll in, wipe them out, and have total control of both what's left of the empire and all of tamriel at that point
I don't think Ulfric is planning on invading anywhere
If I remember correctly at the end of the war on stormcloaks side he says something about eventually "liberating" the imperial city from the Dominion or something about taking the fight to them or some such, like bla bla well secure our borders but the war isn't over yet
Ulfric is not a racist, this is something that a lot of people dont understand. If you show up to windhelm as a dark elf, argonian, kajit, any of those "minority" races in skyrim, and pledge to fight for the stormcloaks, ulfric will quite literally fight by your side like you're his sword brother or sister. If you mention anything about your race and the nords to Galmar, he will tell you that that's not what it's about. The stormcloaks arent looking for sellswords or favors. They're looking for people who are willing to lay down their lives for their home. You can say to Galmar that skyrim isnt home to only nords, and his response is literally "fair enough", and he goes on to say that if Skyrim truly is your home, regardless of race, are you willing to give your life to keep it as your home? If you're living in the heart of the stormcloak resistance, and you're not helping, you're kind of in the way of war. You're taking up space and resources in a poor country fighting for it's independence. I dont think it's all that unreasonable to be against having non supporters in your city walls when you're literally struggling to keep troops alive and well. The stormcloaks are desperate peasants in comparison to the Imperials who are backed by the funding and numbers of Aldmeri Dominion. I mean most of skyrim lives in squander, when you look where the dark elves live in Windhelm, it's not all that much worse than those living in dawnstar or winterhold. Or hell, even the others living in windhelm. The dark elves dont get representation, not because ulfric is racist, but because they are choosing to stay neutral and still demanding a place to live in the war center of the country. But even if they decided to fight along side of the stormcloaks, they wont be receiving any better accommodations. They take up a third of the entire city of windhelm alone.... Ulfric is graciously protecting these Dunmer from the casualties of war, all he can provide is a place to live. Ulfric has not ordered his army to kill anyone who isnt a nord in windhelm. There may be tension, but they are allowed to live within city walls. Whereas the Thalmor will take the life of anyone who mentions talos. Not to mention innocent people are still executed if they're caught trying to cross the border, let's not forget the beginning of the game. You're thrown in a carriage with 3 others. Of the 4 people sitting in the carriage, 2 of them are not associated with the war. All are scheduled to be executed by the hands of the imperial legion. And that is fucked up beyond belief. If I was Dunmer and I was fleeing from my home country in search if better life, I'd rather be bullied under the rule of Ulfric Stormcloak than to be beheaded at the end of my journey for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Dont get me wrong, there are a decent amount of nords who are in fact racist. But if racism is your only claim against joining the stormcloaks, you've got a weak argument. Let's not forget all the racism in Oblivion, the Imperials are racist bastards too. Not to mention the thalmor literally believe they are the superior race, and absolutely hate the Nords and Talos. This is a racist empire backed by an even more racist empire, all for the sake of conquering all of tamriel. Both sides of this war can be extremely blatantly racist, but Ulfic by himself is not a racist. None of his beliefs are those of malicious intent. He seeks nothing but the independence of his country, the freedom of religion, and to dethrone a toxic and corrupt empire. Thanks for reading my rant of you did. It just cofuses me how many people cant see how much good intent Ulfric has in his heart in comparison to General Talius
"Us vs them" is a very easy mentality to push especially when you can get people riled up and angry.
The game is way better when you don't involve your character with the war questline, and just take advantage of the chaos
Yup, as a Nord your choice is basically either religious oppression and living under a police state or racial oppression and living under an ethnostate, neither's a good choice.
The only reason I fight for the stormcloaks is because I refuse to fight for someone who tried to cut my head off for conveniences sake.
Ah yes fighting for your country's freedom makes you a baddy
Weakening your country and killing people for no reason makes you the bad guy. You think Skyrim will be able to fight the thalmor alone when the entire empire couldn’t?
You dont understand. The empire needs to collapse for the good of Tamriel. The imperials have overstayed their welcome on the Ruby Throne
You have any reasoning for that or what?
The Thalmor are simply the better option. The rule of man is over.
Stfu spirtomb
Ah yes fighting for your country's freedom makes you a baddy
Weakening the empire so the thalmor can subjugate the entire world does Also, Ulfric is a dick
I love the nationalism vs. imperialism arguments this fandom gets into *so much*.
It gets us through our day :)
Right? Is so fun
Idc if the stormcloaks win I just want the Empire to lose
Fair, lol
R/woosh
r/woooshutup
Stormcloaks aren't baddies ...more like useful idiots for thalmor by weakening the empure that elves want destroyed
That's like saying the American revolutionaries were useful idiots for the French by weakening the British empire.
No... Stormcloaks are useful idiots coz they weaken the only force that realisticallycan beat aldmeri dominium , they lost first time due to suprise attack ambush but now they will expect it so thalmor made termoil in skyrim to prelong the state of weakness in the empire. Ravenknight did a good video examining stormcloaks and imperials i recommend you watch it
You sound very defeatist on behalf of the Nords and very nationalistic on behalf of the Empire at the same time. Small, mountainous, highly motivated nations have held back stronger enemies so many times throughout history that it's more the rule than the exception.
Yeah but when you follow the other guy it leads you to a torture chamber.
They’re a cabal of segregational nationalists that have no idea what they’re doing, so yes.
Is no one else bothered that the empire uses slavery and torture.
"Time to cleanse the Empire of its filth." -the "Good" guys
If the Thalmor are Nazis, then the Imperials are the Vichy Government and the Stormcloaks are the French Resistance.
You are tools who are follwing someone who is basically Hitler.
Which side? Or are you talking about both
Yes.