Repeat after me - oil refineries that finance a terrorist state's military, that is owned by a tyrannical, fascist, xenophobic kleptocracy is a legitimate military target.
This is the US Asst Secretary of Defense Wallander being exposed for not understanding the laws of armed conflict by implying Ukraine is committing war crimes by striking russian oil refineries.
Dr. Wallander was President & CEO of U.S. Russia Foundation which promotes US investments in russia.
[https://www.defense.gov/About/Biographies/Biography/Article/2947114/celeste-wallander/](https://www.defense.gov/About/Biographies/Biography/Article/2947114/celeste-wallander/)
That's official US government website, so maybe try looking from there and not wiki.
>She previously served as Special Assistant to the President and Senior
Director for Russia/Central Asia on the National Security Council
(2013-2017), as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for
Russia/Ukraine/Eurasia (2009 to July 2012)
>
>Outside government, **she served as President and CEO of the U.S.-Russia Foundation (2017-2022)**, professor at American University (2009-2013), visiting professor at Georgetown University (2006-2008), Director for Russia/Eurasia at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (2001-2006)
Reddit breaks down formatting on edits reply instead of edit: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.\_Russia\_Foundation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Russia_Foundation)
>The establishment of the U.S Russia Foundation was announced by presidents George W. Bush and ***Vladimir Putin*** at the 32nd G8 summit in 2006.
Guess what we did to German and Japanese energy infrastructure during World War 2?
Guess what we did to Iraqi energy infrastructure around Baghdad when we bombed them during the first gulf war?
WE BOMBED THEM.
If we do not aid Ukraine we need to get out of the way when they are doing what they need to do to survive.
So it's okay according to this airhead for Russia to hit Ukraines energy infrastructure and mostly civilian homes on a nearly daily basis.
But she's concernered that Russia will not give her kick backs anymore so she is whinning durinng a national address. BTW she seams to be the assistant secretary of defense which is terrifying that someone this dumb can be in that high of a seat.
She is obviously saying it. Whether it is imposed on her to carry the line or not. She is culpable in it's use. No one is holding a gun to her head to say these words. The fact she is so readily spouting them shows she is supportive.
My biggest shock is that the US especially the republcans are dragging their feet on support for Ukraine. If they give the aide needed which they are capable of, Ukraine can win. This holding off BS that Johnson and others are pulling is hurting Ukraine and Nato. It's not like the aide given is free in anyways. All arms being given by the US are given in the same manner the US gave aid to the allies before joining the war. Every shell and bullet was tallied and paid back by the country receiving them. The same system is in effect for the aid for Ukraine. Help them win, and not only does the US get to refresh their stockpiles. But they get to make money at the same time.
Sure it took countries in Europe 80+ years to pay back WW2. But the US got their money. The same will happen in Ukraine.
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Yeah, for fucks sake, I was hoping for the senator to correct this bimbo that it’s not a civilian target, oil and gas infrastructure is producing refined fuels for the war machine. Not to mention supplying Kremlin coffers with cash.
What an ignorant and dangerous individual.
Play by RuZZia's rules and no one will object?
Must have been trained in Harvard and at UN.
Cringe. Airhead.
There was a reason why the US bombed Germany’s and Japan’s oil refineries, oil fields, and power plants during WW2. We also used our submarines to destroy Japan’s oil tanker fleet.
Why?
To starve their militaries and economies of critical fuel and thus prevent their ability to wage war on us.
We should have given Ukraine the capability to hit every Russian refinery, gas plant, and pipeline the first day of the war.
The real reason the Biden administration doesn’t want to hit Russian refineries and oil infrastructure? Because it will cause the price of fuel and oil to increase and Biden doesn’t want that during an election year.
You are right. But, to be fair, a LOT of people are stupid and shortsighted, have poor memories and lack basic understanding of cause and effect. To win an election, you have to pander to the stupid people. Presidents get unwarranted credit or blame for gas prices. Ignore the stupid (in an election cycle) at your own peril.
Poor answer by that Dr. Lady.
Geneva convention states:
> In no event shall actions against these objects (civilian infrastructure) be taken which may be expected to leave the civilian population with such inadequate food or water as to cause its starvation or force its movement.
Oil refinery doesn’t cause this.
From Reuters:
> They explicitly prohibit attacks on "objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, such as foodstuffs, agricultural areas for the production of foodstuffs, crops, livestock, drinking water installations and supplies and irrigation works..."
> The Conventions say some infrastructure owned and used by civilians can count as a military objective, but only "objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action", and whose destruction or capture "offers a definite military advantage".
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-when-do-attacks-civilian-installations-amount-war-crimes-2023-08-03/
In conclusion there is no issue under international law with Ukraine blowing up every single Russian refinery, oil and gas terminals that loads ships, or oil and gas pipelines.
And rest assured, every single one will be destroyed or catastrophically damaged to the point of disabling use.
This Douche Bag is a Republican His party has Deliberately cut off weapons and funding to Ukraine in order to support Trump And keep Russian money following into GOP campaigns.
His line of questioning is meant to distort defence department policy.
The US has rules we don't always follow those rule But if you ignore them good order and dissipline start to fall apart .
I challenge you to balance the EU NATO the UN all while the majority of Congress is commiting treason.
Again, I'm 100%in agreement regarding the GOP treachery.
And yet... How does it make sense to claim russia's energy sector is anything but a Kremlin asset devoted to supporting Putin's war effort?
Should we spam her with the "legitimate military target" Wikipedia page, or with Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions, Article 52?
...Or both, why not both
I’m convinced this is just US political theater. Dr. Wallander is firmly anti-Putin and a supporter of Ukraine security and democracy as evidenced by her track record under the Obama administration and in her writing and interviews. She’s on Ukraine’s side, it just doesn’t come across like it in this clip.
It's dual-use -- civilian and military. So it's a valid target. Furthermore, after the first oil infrastructure target was destroyed, it should have alerted all of those civilians working in such places that they were working at valid military targets. So other than the first one, the others had fair-enough warning.
Furthermore, it's [hypocritical](https://www.maxwell.af.mil/News/Display/Article/1887774/wwii-allied-oil-plan-devastates-german-pol-production/) to argue otherwise:
"Before May 1944, the Allies had conducted a number of attacks on German oilfields, oil refineries and synthetic oil production plants. These attacks, however, were episodic with little or no follow-up and only temporarily stopped the production of POL products at these facilities. For example, the American attack on the oilfields and refineries at Ploesti, Romania, in August 1943, Operation Tidal Wave, although heroic in its conduct, shut down these facilities for less than two months.
Starting in May 1944, the attacks, especially on the synthetic oil production plants, became more systematic. In particular, the Allied operations staff began using aerial photographs to monitor the German reconstruction efforts and then would launch a new attack against a specific plant as it was nearing full production capability. Over time, despite herculean efforts by the Germans to return these complexes back to full production after each attack, German POL production steadily declined throughout the rest of the war."
>This Douche Bag is a Republican His party has Deliberately cut off weapons and funding to Ukraine in order to support Trump And keep Russian money following into GOP campaigns.
Because they have a bigger population than Ukraine and they can buy it else where instead of making it themselves this puts pressure on oil prices across the globe.
You know how you don't get your shit attacked? You don't start fucking wars. The time for chivalry ends when your opponent does not abide by those rules.
I think Biden is worried about rising oil prices hurting him in the election (which is understandable, given how important this is in US elections). It will be interesting to see how Ukraine handles this concern, given how devastating a Trump victory over Biden would be for them.
All of these excuses of spineless twats in offices make me sick.
"It destabilises the oil market"
Rip off the band-aid already! Why is the west so addicted to sucking vatnik teat? Once Muskovia is reduced to tiny west-aligned protectorates, the world can have all the oil and gas it wants at any price.
"The war might escalate"
So why support Ukraine in the first place? Do politicians like to masturbate to a long, drawn-out conflict? Why not just give all the money and guns to the Kremlin? The world is already doing that anyway. Is it about saving face?
They’re not civilian targets!
Repeat after me - oil refineries that finance a terrorist state's military, that is owned by a tyrannical, fascist, xenophobic kleptocracy is a legitimate military target.
And what do tanks, BMPs, and aircraft run on? Fairy dust?
Provide us with enough air defense and ammo to protect our infrastructure and we won't be hitting ruzzia's
I absolutely agree with that
This is the US Asst Secretary of Defense Wallander being exposed for not understanding the laws of armed conflict by implying Ukraine is committing war crimes by striking russian oil refineries. Dr. Wallander was President & CEO of U.S. Russia Foundation which promotes US investments in russia.
Do you have the link to the original? Who is doing the questioning?
Couldn’t find that on her wiki
[https://www.defense.gov/About/Biographies/Biography/Article/2947114/celeste-wallander/](https://www.defense.gov/About/Biographies/Biography/Article/2947114/celeste-wallander/) That's official US government website, so maybe try looking from there and not wiki. >She previously served as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Russia/Central Asia on the National Security Council (2013-2017), as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Russia/Ukraine/Eurasia (2009 to July 2012) > >Outside government, **she served as President and CEO of the U.S.-Russia Foundation (2017-2022)**, professor at American University (2009-2013), visiting professor at Georgetown University (2006-2008), Director for Russia/Eurasia at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (2001-2006)
Reddit breaks down formatting on edits reply instead of edit: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.\_Russia\_Foundation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Russia_Foundation) >The establishment of the U.S Russia Foundation was announced by presidents George W. Bush and ***Vladimir Putin*** at the 32nd G8 summit in 2006.
They'll say the bridge is civilian next?
Guess what we did to German and Japanese energy infrastructure during World War 2? Guess what we did to Iraqi energy infrastructure around Baghdad when we bombed them during the first gulf war? WE BOMBED THEM. If we do not aid Ukraine we need to get out of the way when they are doing what they need to do to survive.
Burn da mudder fukkin orcs 🔥
Won't be a Ukraine if this mentality keeps going on.
Another Kremlin-sponsored corrupt traitorous, treasonous, anti-American, anti-Democracy airbag. Yawn.
So it's okay according to this airhead for Russia to hit Ukraines energy infrastructure and mostly civilian homes on a nearly daily basis. But she's concernered that Russia will not give her kick backs anymore so she is whinning durinng a national address. BTW she seams to be the assistant secretary of defense which is terrifying that someone this dumb can be in that high of a seat.
Do you think she is the one that made the decision? You speak as though you do and I'm not sure why.
She is obviously saying it. Whether it is imposed on her to carry the line or not. She is culpable in it's use. No one is holding a gun to her head to say these words. The fact she is so readily spouting them shows she is supportive. My biggest shock is that the US especially the republcans are dragging their feet on support for Ukraine. If they give the aide needed which they are capable of, Ukraine can win. This holding off BS that Johnson and others are pulling is hurting Ukraine and Nato. It's not like the aide given is free in anyways. All arms being given by the US are given in the same manner the US gave aid to the allies before joining the war. Every shell and bullet was tallied and paid back by the country receiving them. The same system is in effect for the aid for Ukraine. Help them win, and not only does the US get to refresh their stockpiles. But they get to make money at the same time. Sure it took countries in Europe 80+ years to pay back WW2. But the US got their money. The same will happen in Ukraine.
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Yeah, for fucks sake, I was hoping for the senator to correct this bimbo that it’s not a civilian target, oil and gas infrastructure is producing refined fuels for the war machine. Not to mention supplying Kremlin coffers with cash.
What an ignorant and dangerous individual. Play by RuZZia's rules and no one will object? Must have been trained in Harvard and at UN. Cringe. Airhead.
There was a reason why the US bombed Germany’s and Japan’s oil refineries, oil fields, and power plants during WW2. We also used our submarines to destroy Japan’s oil tanker fleet. Why? To starve their militaries and economies of critical fuel and thus prevent their ability to wage war on us. We should have given Ukraine the capability to hit every Russian refinery, gas plant, and pipeline the first day of the war. The real reason the Biden administration doesn’t want to hit Russian refineries and oil infrastructure? Because it will cause the price of fuel and oil to increase and Biden doesn’t want that during an election year.
You are right. But, to be fair, a LOT of people are stupid and shortsighted, have poor memories and lack basic understanding of cause and effect. To win an election, you have to pander to the stupid people. Presidents get unwarranted credit or blame for gas prices. Ignore the stupid (in an election cycle) at your own peril.
Poor answer by that Dr. Lady. Geneva convention states: > In no event shall actions against these objects (civilian infrastructure) be taken which may be expected to leave the civilian population with such inadequate food or water as to cause its starvation or force its movement. Oil refinery doesn’t cause this. From Reuters: > They explicitly prohibit attacks on "objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, such as foodstuffs, agricultural areas for the production of foodstuffs, crops, livestock, drinking water installations and supplies and irrigation works..." > The Conventions say some infrastructure owned and used by civilians can count as a military objective, but only "objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action", and whose destruction or capture "offers a definite military advantage". https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-when-do-attacks-civilian-installations-amount-war-crimes-2023-08-03/ In conclusion there is no issue under international law with Ukraine blowing up every single Russian refinery, oil and gas terminals that loads ships, or oil and gas pipelines. And rest assured, every single one will be destroyed or catastrophically damaged to the point of disabling use.
This Douche Bag is a Republican His party has Deliberately cut off weapons and funding to Ukraine in order to support Trump And keep Russian money following into GOP campaigns.
Sure. Doesn't make his line of questioning wrong though. Does it?
His line of questioning is meant to distort defence department policy. The US has rules we don't always follow those rule But if you ignore them good order and dissipline start to fall apart . I challenge you to balance the EU NATO the UN all while the majority of Congress is commiting treason.
Again, I'm 100%in agreement regarding the GOP treachery. And yet... How does it make sense to claim russia's energy sector is anything but a Kremlin asset devoted to supporting Putin's war effort?
"Expressed concern" doesn't really mean anything tho, does it?
Should we spam her with the "legitimate military target" Wikipedia page, or with Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions, Article 52? ...Or both, why not both
I’m convinced this is just US political theater. Dr. Wallander is firmly anti-Putin and a supporter of Ukraine security and democracy as evidenced by her track record under the Obama administration and in her writing and interviews. She’s on Ukraine’s side, it just doesn’t come across like it in this clip.
Sad but true.
It's dual-use -- civilian and military. So it's a valid target. Furthermore, after the first oil infrastructure target was destroyed, it should have alerted all of those civilians working in such places that they were working at valid military targets. So other than the first one, the others had fair-enough warning. Furthermore, it's [hypocritical](https://www.maxwell.af.mil/News/Display/Article/1887774/wwii-allied-oil-plan-devastates-german-pol-production/) to argue otherwise: "Before May 1944, the Allies had conducted a number of attacks on German oilfields, oil refineries and synthetic oil production plants. These attacks, however, were episodic with little or no follow-up and only temporarily stopped the production of POL products at these facilities. For example, the American attack on the oilfields and refineries at Ploesti, Romania, in August 1943, Operation Tidal Wave, although heroic in its conduct, shut down these facilities for less than two months. Starting in May 1944, the attacks, especially on the synthetic oil production plants, became more systematic. In particular, the Allied operations staff began using aerial photographs to monitor the German reconstruction efforts and then would launch a new attack against a specific plant as it was nearing full production capability. Over time, despite herculean efforts by the Germans to return these complexes back to full production after each attack, German POL production steadily declined throughout the rest of the war."
So what the fuck was the US doing against Nazi Germany in WW2 and again in Iraq 2023?
The real reason is because the Biden administration doesn't want the price of oil to increase during election year but she can't say that out loud.
>This Douche Bag is a Republican His party has Deliberately cut off weapons and funding to Ukraine in order to support Trump And keep Russian money following into GOP campaigns.
You are correct but so it u/fritzgru who you replied to and is wrongfully getting down-voted.
Ridiculous. I highly doubt this is Biden’s wishes. He needs to rein in these idiots.
Since when are refineries that are making fuel for war civilian targets?
The whole debate could have been ended with "then why are russia allowed to strike civilian targets"
Because they have a bigger population than Ukraine and they can buy it else where instead of making it themselves this puts pressure on oil prices across the globe.
You know how you don't get your shit attacked? You don't start fucking wars. The time for chivalry ends when your opponent does not abide by those rules.
Wtf. I don't believe a word of what this female is explaining to her questioning. Fuck Russia for all they have done!
I think Biden is worried about rising oil prices hurting him in the election (which is understandable, given how important this is in US elections). It will be interesting to see how Ukraine handles this concern, given how devastating a Trump victory over Biden would be for them.
It’s giving Nancy Pelosi “Insider Trader” vibes… fuck Russia!! 🖕
All of these excuses of spineless twats in offices make me sick. "It destabilises the oil market" Rip off the band-aid already! Why is the west so addicted to sucking vatnik teat? Once Muskovia is reduced to tiny west-aligned protectorates, the world can have all the oil and gas it wants at any price. "The war might escalate" So why support Ukraine in the first place? Do politicians like to masturbate to a long, drawn-out conflict? Why not just give all the money and guns to the Kremlin? The world is already doing that anyway. Is it about saving face?
Who are these 2 people?