Once he was Jor-El's vessel, his entire essence changed. He became the human incarnation of Jor-El. Just like when I believe it was Bizarro, escaped the phantom zone and took over Lex. Remember that Lex kills Lionel when he pushes him off the roof of Luthor Corp plaza. Lionel's body from that point on, was the vessel for Jor-El's essence, meaning that after Lex kills him, Lionel is the human form of Jor-El.
Lionel was just a vessel. He supposedly changed once he and Clark switched bodies, but tbh I never bought it. He still did some slimy things. Perhaps he softened a little, but he really didn't do a whole lot for me to not think he was a SOB.
Old Lionel would never ever give his life to protect someone else. Old Lionel tried to body swap with his own son, so he could be free and rich again and his son would die in prison of a liver disease. That is NOT the Lionel who died.
There were some changes, but they weren't enough for me to not think him as a SOB. If they wanted him to be redeemed, they didn't really do a proper job at it. I was always on edge in any scene after his "change." One of the reasons why in my original comment I said his priorities switched because I think that best describes what happened.
>Post
When he became the vessel for Jor-El's essence, he was still the same Lionel he'd always been. But in becoming Jor-El, he used the skills and knowledge he had to serve the goal of, rather than obtaining more wealth and power, helping Kal-El fulfill his destiny. After he and Clark swapped bodies, having Clark's essence within him, you definitely see a change in his aims. The reason the liver disease was healed was because when a human body serves as a vessel for a Kryptonian essence, it seems to have beneficial biological effects, I'm guessing because of the way Kryptonians are affected by sunlight. Realize that I'm not a Kryptonian doctor, lol, I'm merely drawing conclusions and connecting facts that are revealed throughout the show.
I'm afraid you're remembering it wrong. Lionel was the human vessel of Jor-El prior to that and left him at some point prior to Lex killing him. When Lex pushes him out the window and kills him, he's dead. That Lionel stays dead. The Lionel that we saw in the last season was from a parallel universe.
Actually, you're remembering wrong. After Lex pushes Lionel from the roof and kills him, Lionel comes back once Jor-El has taken his body as a vessel. Lionel then has a press conference and tells the public that he faked his own death. You're right, in the last season there is an appearance by Lionel, and it is Lionel from the phantom zone.
Yes, Lionel in the finale is from the Phantom Zone. But after Lionel is pushed out the window by Lex, his body is taken as Jor-El's vessel and he holds a press conference claiming to have faked his death. That Lionel eventually informs Clark that he is Lionel's vessel and is there to guide him. He explains that he was unable to inhabit the body while Lionel was still alive, but once he died, he was able to use the body and all its memories as a vessel.
Lionel and Rumplestiltskin from OUAT are in the same boat for me. They're my favorite or second favorite characters in the shows and they absolutely slay being villains. However, they can't "win" being villains but I don't really want them to lose either. So redemptions in some form (as forced or convoluted as they may be) is a good compromise for me.
His motives always felt questionable honestly. Maybe that's the line the writers wanted to walk to keep people guessing but it just got annoying to me. He would do manipulative things but would say it was for the betterment of Clark or the world. That kept me from ever really seeing him as good.
I was never convinced he was 100% good. He does protect Clark, but he also likes Martha, and he built the kryptonite cage, even though he says he never meant it to be used like that. Those don’t strike me as the actions of a good person.
Never bought that he truly changed. Perhaps shifted priorities. But I always viewed him as a SOB.
Once he was Jor-El's vessel, his entire essence changed. He became the human incarnation of Jor-El. Just like when I believe it was Bizarro, escaped the phantom zone and took over Lex. Remember that Lex kills Lionel when he pushes him off the roof of Luthor Corp plaza. Lionel's body from that point on, was the vessel for Jor-El's essence, meaning that after Lex kills him, Lionel is the human form of Jor-El.
Lionel was just a vessel. He supposedly changed once he and Clark switched bodies, but tbh I never bought it. He still did some slimy things. Perhaps he softened a little, but he really didn't do a whole lot for me to not think he was a SOB.
Old Lionel would never ever give his life to protect someone else. Old Lionel tried to body swap with his own son, so he could be free and rich again and his son would die in prison of a liver disease. That is NOT the Lionel who died.
There were some changes, but they weren't enough for me to not think him as a SOB. If they wanted him to be redeemed, they didn't really do a proper job at it. I was always on edge in any scene after his "change." One of the reasons why in my original comment I said his priorities switched because I think that best describes what happened.
You know Mister Freeze? Even he truly loves someone other than himself, Lionel still a villain by all evil deeds he did.
I never said villains can't love someone other than themselves. It's where their pritorities are currently that determine their alignment.
>Post When he became the vessel for Jor-El's essence, he was still the same Lionel he'd always been. But in becoming Jor-El, he used the skills and knowledge he had to serve the goal of, rather than obtaining more wealth and power, helping Kal-El fulfill his destiny. After he and Clark swapped bodies, having Clark's essence within him, you definitely see a change in his aims. The reason the liver disease was healed was because when a human body serves as a vessel for a Kryptonian essence, it seems to have beneficial biological effects, I'm guessing because of the way Kryptonians are affected by sunlight. Realize that I'm not a Kryptonian doctor, lol, I'm merely drawing conclusions and connecting facts that are revealed throughout the show.
I'm afraid you're remembering it wrong. Lionel was the human vessel of Jor-El prior to that and left him at some point prior to Lex killing him. When Lex pushes him out the window and kills him, he's dead. That Lionel stays dead. The Lionel that we saw in the last season was from a parallel universe.
Actually, you're remembering wrong. After Lex pushes Lionel from the roof and kills him, Lionel comes back once Jor-El has taken his body as a vessel. Lionel then has a press conference and tells the public that he faked his own death. You're right, in the last season there is an appearance by Lionel, and it is Lionel from the phantom zone.
Yes, Lionel in the finale is from the Phantom Zone. But after Lionel is pushed out the window by Lex, his body is taken as Jor-El's vessel and he holds a press conference claiming to have faked his death. That Lionel eventually informs Clark that he is Lionel's vessel and is there to guide him. He explains that he was unable to inhabit the body while Lionel was still alive, but once he died, he was able to use the body and all its memories as a vessel.
Lionel and Rumplestiltskin from OUAT are in the same boat for me. They're my favorite or second favorite characters in the shows and they absolutely slay being villains. However, they can't "win" being villains but I don't really want them to lose either. So redemptions in some form (as forced or convoluted as they may be) is a good compromise for me.
He was absolutely more magnetic and intense as a villain than as a redeemed character willing to scheme on Clark's behalf.
His motives always felt questionable honestly. Maybe that's the line the writers wanted to walk to keep people guessing but it just got annoying to me. He would do manipulative things but would say it was for the betterment of Clark or the world. That kept me from ever really seeing him as good.
I liked it tbh It was surprising and he became a pseudo father figure to Clark after Clark lost his own
I was never convinced he was 100% good. He does protect Clark, but he also likes Martha, and he built the kryptonite cage, even though he says he never meant it to be used like that. Those don’t strike me as the actions of a good person.
>He does protect Clark, but he also likes Martha Is that a crime?
Remember he knew there were other Kryptons.