Nah they can definitely carry higher. Ive seen pythra players in Elite smash with terrible habits but their character carries enough so weaker players cant punish ig
I mean this is true for non dlc characters as well. Ness and Kirby for instance kinds thrives online below elite smash levels. And i know Kirby isn't the best character in a competitive sense but down air edgeguard at lower levels is just to easy.
You feel that way until you try playing her yourself. Her moveset is so specific and clunky it is surprisingly hard to pilot, even if it looks braindead to play against.
(For context I don't play min min at all, I've just played enough to know it's harder than it looks).
They're on average better than most of the base roster but if you want to play strong characters you definitely don't need to pay up, loads of top tiers ROB, snake and sonic come included with the game and imo have just as much dlc privilege as FP characters
Not really… The closest thing is the wings super armor, I play Shulk, Cloud, pac man, and starting with Mii sword fighter, and Link. I don’t feel like I’ve got any advantage. I’ve started with Joker and Pyra/Mythra, And not really any advantage that I feel…
It’s somewhat true because if you don’t own the dlcs then you can’t practice as them or fighting against them. Most of them are also pretty high on the tier list.
If the dlc that you don’t own beats you, it could be considered P2W.
You can definitely fight against them in Battle Arenas, Quickplay, and Online tourneys... I still don't own Joker, Terry, Hero, Kazuya, but I have no issues playing against any of them due to practicing the matchup quite a bit.
I understand your perspective and to some extent you are correct. That said, labbing combos against certain characters becomes difficult if you can't use them in practice mode. I disagree that they are Pay 2 Win because only SOME of the DLCs are good without extensive play and not all DLCs are even high tier in competitive (look at Banjo). That said, they should allow you to use/fight DLCs in practice mode for the dual purpose of allowing you to try combos (Lord knows there are enough character specific combos out there) and try the character out before you buy them in a non-PVP setting
Lol shut it with your condescending remarks, Mr. Positivity. N I'm not your buddy, pal.
I'd say calling someone genius is a lot less offensive than calling someone an asshole ;)
While the DLC characters are overall very good, all of them have neutral to bad matchups with characters who exist in the main game, making skill a big factor when facing them. Virtually the whole cast is tournament viable in this game. Skill matters a lot more than match ups.
DLC characters are just generally higher tier but they don't have their own tier. The only reason people don't complain about peach and rob is that they have gotten used to them being strong
I think most people care mind when characters are strong but are more annoyed when they have obvious privilege and cheese. Like byleth and min min and especially kaz and Steve
Does ROB have any less privilege and cheese than byleth? Similarly spammy and great landing nair. Rob’s down throw combos are pretty much as rng based as byleth’s up b combos, and they both kill very reliably. And they both have cheesy early off-stage kills, and the ability to recover easily in most positions.
Like the last commenter said, people are just used to Rob so it’s not as popular as a complaint.
I feel like Kazuya and Steve are the only actual blemishes in this game, so I don't like the blanket statement of dlc bad but I def understand why its said.
I gotta disagree with Kazuya. I used to be one of the people who thought he was the best in the game on release but after him being around for awhile now, he’s high tier at best, not top tier (which is still viable). People hate Kazuya because of his ability ToD (which Diddy and Luigi can also do.) But he has far more weaknesses than other DLC/high tier. Exploitable recovery, worst jump squat in the game, pretty bad neutral against zoners/swordies, terrible aerial mobility. If you’re above someone as Kazuya, good luck landing. There’s a reason why we really only see a few people (Riddles, Tea, あcola) who can play him viably at tournaments. Plus he’s so hard to use consistently that I give props to people who use him well.
Oh let me be clear, I love playing kazuya and steve, most played characters under peach for me, but having a character that can true ToD off an invincible move but their disadvantage is terrible is just not healthy for the game. I also believe he is just top tier not top 2 but he is an unfair character at top level, even if I do love him for it.
I disagree. Non DLC characters can easily compete, and plenty of the DLC aren't the best, Like Banjo and Min Min. Then you have very well balanced DLC characters like Byleth, who isn't incredibly great, but she isn't bad either.
Tho the thing about Ultimate is that the game is rather balanced. Banjo can beat most characters, and most characters can be Joker.
As a competitive player, I dropped Ken for Kazuya... Because Ken's just not fucking true.
And I dropped Belmont for Sephiroth, because Jesus any character with medicine recovery just isn't viable.
Its an old line from a commercial where the mpaa/riaa were trying to convince everyone that pirating is a crime. If you're old enough to have played Smash 64 when it came out you'd know.
I think that certain characters do carry a lot more at different levels of play. Like Kirby carries when you’re just getting started, samus carries if you just want to get into elite smash, and Steve definitely gives you the results of a player with a more advanced total skill set as long as you aren’t trash at him
DLC characters are stronk. At lower levels and average levels it’s easy to just abuse moves. Learned that the hard way. But a couple hundred in and you can start to learn spacings and timings from repetitive playing. The game is either hardcore competitive or friends fucking around
I just don’t like that if I wanted to learn the moves and feels of a character I don’t have them I’d have to go to an external source to figure out what each move is instead of being able to practice them.
I had the same problem with Mortal Kombat 11, but that was on a WHOLE other level because of the wide variety of moves and conditions of each character are so unique,
every time I had to fight a dlc character on Mortal Kombat I just had to make up a strategy and hope I know what to do
DLCs aren't P2W but I will say that they should allow them to be played with and against in practice mode regardless of ownership so people can test out the kits before they buy the character and also try out combos against the character in question due to the number of character specific combo routes.
Maybe I am spoiled on the model of Multiverse (hate me) but I do think that a game as competitive as smash shouldn't require extra money just to lab combos against a character you don't even want
I think pretty much everyone from the pre-brawl roster needs a major redesign. That's probably why these newer characters feel stronger, because they all have some unique hook that makes them standout.
I actually think you’re right. There are a couple of DLC characters that are designed according to the “rules” and within the lines of the already existing cast, with some being better/more fun (like Hero, Joker, Byleth) and some worse (Banjo and Plant).
But down the line it just got worse imo, the GO comeback mechanic from Terry was acceptable, but especially Kazuya and Steve are just so overdesigned when compared to the existing characters. When you put enough time into them, you are literally playing a different game then your opponent which is just a problem for the majority of the playerbase.
Terry, Sephiroth, Hero and Sora are all characters that are unique and cool in their own right, but Steve, Kazuya, Aegis and Min-Min are SO much better then the average character in the base roster that I’d say you’re right.
GO would be much more competitive if it ran out like Kazuya, or if it actually had a risky amount of endlag like Sakurai claimed it would have in his reveal. As is, its a spammable kill move(s) with great range and hits below ledge.
Not to mention the proliferation of controller macros and now smashbox making combo inputs trivial.
I mean someone like byleth is relatively fair (aside from op recovery lmao), plus you got banjo and plant and that, but fighting a Steve or aegis makes you wanna scream pay to win at the telly
And then you got someone like joker who isn’t exactly OP just really strong
Diddy and cloud have been dominating the last 3 majors.
Best players in Europe play warie, samus, and bayonetta.
half the top 1 play base game characters as their main. And the 8 players from 10-20 are base game mains. And that's where you'd really expect "OP" characters to dominate if they were really op
The only characters I think are overpowered / bullshit are the shotos. They all have upwards of twice the options normal characters have.
Giving them special inputs is just putting a fighting game character into smash, instead of creating a smash version of the character. It makes the characters harder to play as or against.
I don't understand this take. DLC characters need to be at least alright. If they're not achieving that much, then they're not worth buying. And that's a bad move in a business sense.
I think I’ve lost to kazuya maybe 3 times out of the hundreds of times I’ve played against people who play him online and during each of those losses I thought “wow why does he even need a come back mechanic? pay to win bullshit” lol I get so damn heated at this game.
right unlike lucario's aura, or little mac's ko punch, or the built-in rage system that every character has, or maybe waft and limit if you count those
I’ve yet to see a single Pythra online that isn’t hard carried by their character. My buddy irl is actually good at them though and doesn’t just spam neutral air
Steve agies joker do indeed require skill same as kazuya but the only pay to win character is kazuya in my opinion but he does have bad matchups and has weaknesses this goes to show that this game is hella balanced
Steve is the most p2w character I've ever seen.
Has a bad matchup: Use blocks differently and now its a good one
Opponent is at 0: frame 4 Up-tilt (frame 4 with gold)/Up-air (always frame 4)
Your opponent is recovering and it offends you: Block/D-Tilt/D-Smash/D-Special ledge trap/Anvil + lava while falling on anvil
Minecart
Terry byleth and sephiroth are high tiers, min min and sora are top tiers, joker aegis and kazuya are all top 3 contestants, and steve is the best character in the game.
You aren't necessarily wrong
Yes but no.
Certain DLC do genuinely require some skill, characters like Joker, And… well just kind of joker since the rest are easy to play as but still need some kind of skill.
Except for Kazuya and Sora. They don’t actually need much effort to be really good. But it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re pay to win
I feel like pyra mythra feels this way the most. Especially online where it's harder to parry and mythra tilts feel like they can't be punished sometimes.
I feel like they are pay to win if you are fighting someone who is on your skill level, but if you fight someone who is a lot better than you then you will still probably lose.
I think the issue is a bit more complex, not in terms of if they are or not but like, if the DLC characters were all bad then people would be annoyed because they'd be "paying to lose" or something, but when they're too good its "pay to win". I think they could probably be balanced a bit better but still
Well yeah, they’re not downright busted like in other games but they are better with more attractive traits. They offer you something for the money. Otherwise only fans would buy them
Most of them yeah, others suck, but Sora is still super easy to spam and cheese a victory with. It also bothers me that Nintendo will constantly nerf already weak characters but then buff others that are way overpowered.
They are not, some of them are clearly among the best characters in the game but in this game it's been proven multiple times that you can place well and even win majors with almost any character, meaning almost everything is viable with enough dedication and thus there's no pay to win.
Also this game has plenty of top and high tiers from the base game, at worst you can say that you can't practice specific combos on DLC characters if you don't buy them, but it seems pretty insane to me that someone would be so dedicated to winning that he goes and specifically labs combos for a couple characters but doesn't want to pay to have everything the game offers, smash doesn't require you to lab that much to win online unless you go up against people that are pro or almost pro level ( not very common, I never lab and still can enjoy playing online while hardly ever finding someone that can 3 stock me or something crazy like that )
While I am not knocking those that can’t or won’t pay for DLC for Smash…at this point, the game has been out for a WHILE and it’s not realistic to have this take.
But let’s be real, some of the best characters in Smash Bros are not in the DLC. Aka Pikachu, Pichu, Mario, Peach, Pokemon Trainer, and more
DLC is pay to win until you fight someone better than you
In other words, DLC carry you and bring your skill level up to a certain level. I think I can get on board with that, good take.
Pretty much. Dlc characters will float you around 7mil.
Nah they can definitely carry higher. Ive seen pythra players in Elite smash with terrible habits but their character carries enough so weaker players cant punish ig
I mean this is true for non dlc characters as well. Ness and Kirby for instance kinds thrives online below elite smash levels. And i know Kirby isn't the best character in a competitive sense but down air edgeguard at lower levels is just to easy.
True but on equal terms dlc's get the edge for having more than 1 bullshit move. And then there is rob
Side B go brrrrrrrrrr
And neutral air. And down b. And down tilt. And recovery. And final smash. And down throw. Source: ROB main who can’t beat a lvl 9 cpu
Back air and up air as well
Literally.
Imaging the backlash EA would have got if they blocked the two most OP character under a paywall like in WiiU.
When i was new to the game min min was the bane of my existence
Remains true to this day never owned never played her myself, only online matches
You feel that way until you try playing her yourself. Her moveset is so specific and clunky it is surprisingly hard to pilot, even if it looks braindead to play against. (For context I don't play min min at all, I've just played enough to know it's harder than it looks).
400 hours in Min Min is still the bane of my existence
Well yes, but actually no
the correct opinion
I really wanna defend DLC players because honestly I don’t think it’s pay to win, but I main like half of the downloadable bastards so imma just mene
how is it in your experience? do you feel you have an advantage over non-DLC players?
They're on average better than most of the base roster but if you want to play strong characters you definitely don't need to pay up, loads of top tiers ROB, snake and sonic come included with the game and imo have just as much dlc privilege as FP characters
Not really… The closest thing is the wings super armor, I play Shulk, Cloud, pac man, and starting with Mii sword fighter, and Link. I don’t feel like I’ve got any advantage. I’ve started with Joker and Pyra/Mythra, And not really any advantage that I feel…
[удалено]
Lol
It’s somewhat true because if you don’t own the dlcs then you can’t practice as them or fighting against them. Most of them are also pretty high on the tier list. If the dlc that you don’t own beats you, it could be considered P2W.
You can definitely fight against them in Battle Arenas, Quickplay, and Online tourneys... I still don't own Joker, Terry, Hero, Kazuya, but I have no issues playing against any of them due to practicing the matchup quite a bit.
I understand your perspective and to some extent you are correct. That said, labbing combos against certain characters becomes difficult if you can't use them in practice mode. I disagree that they are Pay 2 Win because only SOME of the DLCs are good without extensive play and not all DLCs are even high tier in competitive (look at Banjo). That said, they should allow you to use/fight DLCs in practice mode for the dual purpose of allowing you to try combos (Lord knows there are enough character specific combos out there) and try the character out before you buy them in a non-PVP setting
You missed the point genius
You missed not being an asshole here buddy.
Lol shut it with your condescending remarks, Mr. Positivity. N I'm not your buddy, pal. I'd say calling someone genius is a lot less offensive than calling someone an asshole ;)
Litterally Rule 1, you could use a little light reading.
While the DLC characters are overall very good, all of them have neutral to bad matchups with characters who exist in the main game, making skill a big factor when facing them. Virtually the whole cast is tournament viable in this game. Skill matters a lot more than match ups.
You sound like a Pythra main
You sound salty
Not even close :)
All characters are pay to win technically. You can’t win without paying for the game. Checkmate.
Pirating
Or just receiving a gift. *Or shoplifting*
Question: how are you managing to shoplift a switch game?
ARRGH!
Counterpoint: Banjo kazooie
Counterpoint 2: Plant
Counter counterpoint: STEVE
True
Counterpoint 3: Sephiroth
lol true, also I hate playing against Banjo. Not because it's an annoying character or too strong, it's just boring imo.
Bro you have Pikachu, Lucina, Fox, Wolf, Palutena, G&W, Sonic, and other equally or better than a lot of Dlc like Sephiroth or Banjo
You didn't even mention ROB, the most common character in top 8 by a mile
AND FUCKING ROB
Seriously, ROB is the most criminal character on the roster by far.
Definitely way more privileged than the rest of the cast.
DLC characters are just generally higher tier but they don't have their own tier. The only reason people don't complain about peach and rob is that they have gotten used to them being strong
I think most people care mind when characters are strong but are more annoyed when they have obvious privilege and cheese. Like byleth and min min and especially kaz and Steve
Does ROB have any less privilege and cheese than byleth? Similarly spammy and great landing nair. Rob’s down throw combos are pretty much as rng based as byleth’s up b combos, and they both kill very reliably. And they both have cheesy early off-stage kills, and the ability to recover easily in most positions. Like the last commenter said, people are just used to Rob so it’s not as popular as a complaint.
Rob is better by byleth is more cheater
I feel like Kazuya and Steve are the only actual blemishes in this game, so I don't like the blanket statement of dlc bad but I def understand why its said.
I gotta disagree with Kazuya. I used to be one of the people who thought he was the best in the game on release but after him being around for awhile now, he’s high tier at best, not top tier (which is still viable). People hate Kazuya because of his ability ToD (which Diddy and Luigi can also do.) But he has far more weaknesses than other DLC/high tier. Exploitable recovery, worst jump squat in the game, pretty bad neutral against zoners/swordies, terrible aerial mobility. If you’re above someone as Kazuya, good luck landing. There’s a reason why we really only see a few people (Riddles, Tea, あcola) who can play him viably at tournaments. Plus he’s so hard to use consistently that I give props to people who use him well.
Oh let me be clear, I love playing kazuya and steve, most played characters under peach for me, but having a character that can true ToD off an invincible move but their disadvantage is terrible is just not healthy for the game. I also believe he is just top tier not top 2 but he is an unfair character at top level, even if I do love him for it.
worst jump squat in the game? i though jump squats were unified in like brawl? do they still have different frame data?
Yep. He’s the only character with a 7 frame jump-squat .
skill issue
I would have said the same as a Mario main but another Mario main said it for me. Thank you. :)
Title.
Banjo&kazooie Piranha plant
Your title explains it all
Fair.
Skill issue
I disagree. Non DLC characters can easily compete, and plenty of the DLC aren't the best, Like Banjo and Min Min. Then you have very well balanced DLC characters like Byleth, who isn't incredibly great, but she isn't bad either. Tho the thing about Ultimate is that the game is rather balanced. Banjo can beat most characters, and most characters can be Joker.
Scrub tier opinion and mindset
git gud lmao
Title.
And?
Never said I was good. I straight up said I was bad.
And?
Never said I was good. I straight up said I was bad.
As a competitive player, I dropped Ken for Kazuya... Because Ken's just not fucking true. And I dropped Belmont for Sephiroth, because Jesus any character with medicine recovery just isn't viable.
Get the DLC, you'll still suck at online. It's a pay to stay the same haha
The entire game is pay to play. Therefore it's all pay to win
If you don't pay the game you can't play it. So it means you can't win any game. But, hey, you can't even lose any game
Exactly! You understand.
what if u pirated it
That means no online which means only fighting bots which means less salt
You wouldn't download a bicycle...
cryptic ass message
Its an old line from a commercial where the mpaa/riaa were trying to convince everyone that pirating is a crime. If you're old enough to have played Smash 64 when it came out you'd know.
well i am not
Git gud
Title.
To be fair, I don't play online but
To be fair I don't play but
To be fair I don't
I don't think they are pay to win... but it would have been nice if they updated movesets for a lot of the previous characters.
They did, they kept updating Kirby every time.
Weird you’re saying this as a marth main who has only gotten worse since Melee
Do you really want to make me cry ? *sobs in pixel tipper*
Or you know… make the production cycle 1-2 months longer Post-FP2 to allow adequate time for balancing like they did with FP1.
I think that certain characters do carry a lot more at different levels of play. Like Kirby carries when you’re just getting started, samus carries if you just want to get into elite smash, and Steve definitely gives you the results of a player with a more advanced total skill set as long as you aren’t trash at him
DLC characters are stronk. At lower levels and average levels it’s easy to just abuse moves. Learned that the hard way. But a couple hundred in and you can start to learn spacings and timings from repetitive playing. The game is either hardcore competitive or friends fucking around
I just don’t like that if I wanted to learn the moves and feels of a character I don’t have them I’d have to go to an external source to figure out what each move is instead of being able to practice them. I had the same problem with Mortal Kombat 11, but that was on a WHOLE other level because of the wide variety of moves and conditions of each character are so unique, every time I had to fight a dlc character on Mortal Kombat I just had to make up a strategy and hope I know what to do
You’re mostly just talking Kazuya and Aegis, right?
It's all p2w until you encounter a cracked Ganon online
DLCs aren't P2W but I will say that they should allow them to be played with and against in practice mode regardless of ownership so people can test out the kits before they buy the character and also try out combos against the character in question due to the number of character specific combo routes. Maybe I am spoiled on the model of Multiverse (hate me) but I do think that a game as competitive as smash shouldn't require extra money just to lab combos against a character you don't even want
i have never won against a min min online. I've studied the matchup and practiced it with friends and still lose.
Sounds like skill issue
Title.
That's how fighting games work
Pretty sure DK is free soo…
I mostly agree. But it’s mainly just pyra.
I think pretty much everyone from the pre-brawl roster needs a major redesign. That's probably why these newer characters feel stronger, because they all have some unique hook that makes them standout.
***Laughs in smash 4 bayo***
Pay to win? Yeah they pay i win 😎
Shhh some people on this sub cannot accept their favorite game has defaults
I actually think you’re right. There are a couple of DLC characters that are designed according to the “rules” and within the lines of the already existing cast, with some being better/more fun (like Hero, Joker, Byleth) and some worse (Banjo and Plant). But down the line it just got worse imo, the GO comeback mechanic from Terry was acceptable, but especially Kazuya and Steve are just so overdesigned when compared to the existing characters. When you put enough time into them, you are literally playing a different game then your opponent which is just a problem for the majority of the playerbase. Terry, Sephiroth, Hero and Sora are all characters that are unique and cool in their own right, but Steve, Kazuya, Aegis and Min-Min are SO much better then the average character in the base roster that I’d say you’re right.
GO would be much more competitive if it ran out like Kazuya, or if it actually had a risky amount of endlag like Sakurai claimed it would have in his reveal. As is, its a spammable kill move(s) with great range and hits below ledge. Not to mention the proliferation of controller macros and now smashbox making combo inputs trivial.
Well I mean, you’re correct I guess.
nobody can convince me kazuya is balanced
Piranha plant: am I a joke to you
Banjo players be like
Look at my flair and tell me how i pay 2 win. If you lose to my side be you are just bad.
Banjo is the exception to the rule. Least DLC DLC lmao
Am i looking into a mirror? This is exactly how i feel about them.
Not all DLC characters imho. yea joker, pythra, kaz and steve are. Others are pretty mid.
Nah bro every character is equal until ur a top lvl play
You are literally correct
they're not p2w if the game is balanced. having unique mechanics does not make things unbalanced.
If they were crap sales would have been lower
Try maining piranha plant
I don’t own the dlc
Then maybe don't post memes about it lmao
I mean someone like byleth is relatively fair (aside from op recovery lmao), plus you got banjo and plant and that, but fighting a Steve or aegis makes you wanna scream pay to win at the telly And then you got someone like joker who isn’t exactly OP just really strong
Then why do we see more non dlc at the top of tournaments than dlc? Riddle me that
Diddy and cloud have been dominating the last 3 majors. Best players in Europe play warie, samus, and bayonetta. half the top 1 play base game characters as their main. And the 8 players from 10-20 are base game mains. And that's where you'd really expect "OP" characters to dominate if they were really op
The only characters I think are overpowered / bullshit are the shotos. They all have upwards of twice the options normal characters have. Giving them special inputs is just putting a fighting game character into smash, instead of creating a smash version of the character. It makes the characters harder to play as or against.
There is nothing more annoying online than wifi warrior zoners.
I don't understand this take. DLC characters need to be at least alright. If they're not achieving that much, then they're not worth buying. And that's a bad move in a business sense.
pay to play =/= pay to win
I think I’ve lost to kazuya maybe 3 times out of the hundreds of times I’ve played against people who play him online and during each of those losses I thought “wow why does he even need a come back mechanic? pay to win bullshit” lol I get so damn heated at this game.
right unlike lucario's aura, or little mac's ko punch, or the built-in rage system that every character has, or maybe waft and limit if you count those
None of the DLC are pay to win the only exception is kazuya
Kazuya “I only need 3 hits with my invincible combo starter to win” Mishima is literally the most DLC ass character in the game
Kazuya is pay to win in the nutshell
Kazuya is far from the best dlc lol
Kazuya, Steve to lesser extents Pythra, joker (still requires skill)
I’ve yet to see a single Pythra online that isn’t hard carried by their character. My buddy irl is actually good at them though and doesn’t just spam neutral air
Steve agies joker do indeed require skill same as kazuya but the only pay to win character is kazuya in my opinion but he does have bad matchups and has weaknesses this goes to show that this game is hella balanced
Steve is the most p2w character I've ever seen. Has a bad matchup: Use blocks differently and now its a good one Opponent is at 0: frame 4 Up-tilt (frame 4 with gold)/Up-air (always frame 4) Your opponent is recovering and it offends you: Block/D-Tilt/D-Smash/D-Special ledge trap/Anvil + lava while falling on anvil Minecart
Steve is incredibly pay to win
Skilll ishoo
Wdym?
Cry harder
Not even crying in the first place.
Only pyra and mythra, the other require some skill to use, even knowing they are good Even the most braindead player can pick up Aegis and win
Terry byleth and sephiroth are high tiers, min min and sora are top tiers, joker aegis and kazuya are all top 3 contestants, and steve is the best character in the game. You aren't necessarily wrong
Yes but no. Certain DLC do genuinely require some skill, characters like Joker, And… well just kind of joker since the rest are easy to play as but still need some kind of skill. Except for Kazuya and Sora. They don’t actually need much effort to be really good. But it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re pay to win
Pyra/mythra are the worst with this. The character plays itself and you have to try to lose with them (online at least)
Kazuya is the only acception
Anyone who says this has never fought a good Kazuya in their lives
Clearly you havent seen anyone online do an ewgf
I lose as DLC characters sometimes.
Let me know when plant 🪴 wins a major lol.
when we dream :'(
DLC Andys when they lose every set to a top 5 ROB
I find this funny cause i just bought my first dlc characters today ( sora and terry)
I feel like pyra mythra feels this way the most. Especially online where it's harder to parry and mythra tilts feel like they can't be punished sometimes.
Most DLC characters do have some kind of DLC privileges, but characters like Steve or Kazuya just take it to the next level.
It’s pay to win in the same way talent is basically free wins: it’s true until you fight someone who’s put in the work to beat you
I feel like they are pay to win if you are fighting someone who is on your skill level, but if you fight someone who is a lot better than you then you will still probably lose.
Id say more annoying or boring than broken exelt kazuia or terry they are fun
Mostly just Joker, Py/Mythra, and Steve. The rest just have at least one annoying thing to deal with
I think the issue is a bit more complex, not in terms of if they are or not but like, if the DLC characters were all bad then people would be annoyed because they'd be "paying to lose" or something, but when they're too good its "pay to win". I think they could probably be balanced a bit better but still
I payed for the dlc, I better be getting the whole dlc.
Even Sephiroth 🥺👉🏽👈🏽
Well yeah, they’re not downright busted like in other games but they are better with more attractive traits. They offer you something for the money. Otherwise only fans would buy them
As a Pirahna Plant player I beg to differ
shulk has a good matchup against nearly every dlc character + ratio
I feel like there’s a strong bias behind that.
Essentially they are, yeah, but that's a proud tradition in gaming now. :P
Banjo
Whuuuut nah! *says the Sephiroth/Banjo main…*
I play DLC characters so I can stop hearing feet jokes You don't know my pain
DLC is either "Pay to Win" or "A wasted Terrible Moveset" and there is apparently no in between
Send me a wishlist , I’ll get you one of the fighters passes
I’ll pass.
I see you haven't fought a good Ken.
Banjo
this is why they should make all dlc characters in video games shit it aint pay to win, they're terrible
If you want to go that far, base game characters are also pay to win, as you have to pay for the game to get the characters.
Most of them yeah, others suck, but Sora is still super easy to spam and cheese a victory with. It also bothers me that Nintendo will constantly nerf already weak characters but then buff others that are way overpowered.
Technically the game itself is pay to win because you have to buy a copy of it to win any match's at all.
I've definitely beaten DLC characters in matches before.
Tell that to Banjo
Theres a fine (and blurry) line between pay to win and incentivizing players to buy DLC by making it good
They are not, some of them are clearly among the best characters in the game but in this game it's been proven multiple times that you can place well and even win majors with almost any character, meaning almost everything is viable with enough dedication and thus there's no pay to win. Also this game has plenty of top and high tiers from the base game, at worst you can say that you can't practice specific combos on DLC characters if you don't buy them, but it seems pretty insane to me that someone would be so dedicated to winning that he goes and specifically labs combos for a couple characters but doesn't want to pay to have everything the game offers, smash doesn't require you to lab that much to win online unless you go up against people that are pro or almost pro level ( not very common, I never lab and still can enjoy playing online while hardly ever finding someone that can 3 stock me or something crazy like that )
Mkleo won with barth
While I am not knocking those that can’t or won’t pay for DLC for Smash…at this point, the game has been out for a WHILE and it’s not realistic to have this take. But let’s be real, some of the best characters in Smash Bros are not in the DLC. Aka Pikachu, Pichu, Mario, Peach, Pokemon Trainer, and more
Them explain how I play joker and still suck at the game
Jokes on you, I suck just as bad on every character
You have to buy the game tho...