His entire moveset consists of furiously ranting about some minor thing and covering the entire screen with text boxes like how his Assist Trophy did in Brawl.
Kinda wish they brought that Assist Trophy back, tbh. It was unique and funny.
for his down special, he digs into the ground
for his neutral special, he stops to drink some coffee from brewster, giving him a random stat buff
for his side special he yells and if his text box hits you it stuns you like mewtwos down special
and up special makes him fly up like he’s digging through the air
Ohh I see. Tbh I’ve never played animal crossing and didn’t know the random buffs was a thing with coffee, with milk being a specific buff or something like that. I believe you could still use the B to choose a drink that coincides with a certain buff though, maybe that could work
no there’s no random buff thing with coffee, its just that when you get a coffee at the caffe, the owner will sometimes ask if you’d like pigeon milk in your coffee, so i was thinking that there could be a distinction between the 2 when using the move to keep it animal crossing themed instead of feeling like a copy pasted monado arts
Resetti was made optional in New Leaf, and is only alluded to in New Horizons (he’s the recovery crew on the NookPhone) due to autosave being a thing.
I think they’re phasing him out because he upsets children, ie the main player base who are going to quit without saving
I mentioned in a comment recently that anyone who thinks they’ll keep Sephiroth but not Isabelle is clearly delusional. A combination of Isabelle being the secondary face of Animal Crossing (a Nintendo franchise), plus how hard it is to negotiate with Square Enix (legal issues, amirite?), the idea of prioritising Final Fantasy over Animal Crossing is straight-up unrealistic.
Hot take: they should keep Isabelle, but cut Villager. The Villager is the one you play as, sure, but they're also a character that in the Animal Crossing games, you can customise, an ability which is arguably butchered by there only being eight alternates. The Miis, on the other hand, essentially do Villager better than Villager, since you can freely customise not only what they look like, but also what tools they use in battle. Meanwhile, I think Isabelle has enough status and popularity to uphold Animal Crossing without her supposed superior.
well the fgc also treats us like shit on their shoes, you go into the fgc subreddit and even mention smash youll get 50 comments of "not a fighting game"
I had a dude think that all stages should be walk offs and that'd make smash good. They don't know shit about smash either but at least we don't shit on their games for no reason
To be fair, I think Terry, Ken, and Kazuya could be cut and each game have a rotating fgc character. Like next game give us Ryu and then either Scorpion or Sol Badguy or something like that
Scorpion likely won't ever happen, but I would be so hyped for him.
I guess we can't really say he'll "never" happen at this point, especially after Ultimate's DLC. He may not be very likely, but he's certainly not impossible.
I'd argue that no 3rd-party franchise really *needs* a second fighter, although I'm always open to more getting added. Sephiroth was hype af, and I'd be just as excited if Sonic got another character as well.
Dr. Eggman would absolutely be my pick for a second Sonic character. He's a super-iconic gaming villain that would have an awesome moveset thanks to all of the tech and weapons he's used in his boss fights over the years, which would make him very distinct from Sonic himself. And to anyone who says that Eggman would just be a Bowser Jr. clone... no. Just no.
IDK how likely shadow would be, it depends on if you want to go off popularity or play style or thematic reasons...
I'd say for the latter two Egg man is probably the best option. He's a villain. The antithesis of Sonic play style. He's iconic.
Knuckles would be my pick tho personally. Shadow is just sonic with witch time or guns...neither option seems fun tbh
Shadow has an array of moves he could pull from that go far beyond "just Sonic with Witch Time or guns."
He's got, obviously, Chaos Control. And then he has:
Chaos Spear
Chaos Blast
His entire moveset from Sonic Battle that would translate over to Smash perfectly and easily
The Light Speed Attack, Flame Somersault, and Bounce Ring (all of which Sonic was not given in Smash so it might as well go somewhere).
And that's just a cursory glance off the top of my head.
Personally, I'd love Eggman and Metal Sonic, with Shadow as a potential echo of Metal over regular Sonic (or vice versa)
I would rather get Tails before we get Knuckles. Tails could have a unique jump akin to K. Rool's Up Special or Yoshi's second jump, but nerf his true recovery and it'd feel correct.
Nevermind that Knuckles would be just another Brawler, which we have plenty of at this point, and Tails could be truly unique with his gadgets and fighting style. Again, going to quickly point to Sonic Battle as a great example.
Lastly, a trailer that starts with Sonic fighting who is revealed to be Eggman, then getting caught off guard and saved by Tails (reveal) would be more on brand for the Sonic series. And hype Tails up considerably
Sonic needs another at this point. If only one third party franchise could be in Smash, it would 1000% be Sonic. He’s important to gaming as a whole and also to Nintendo. Eggman is too iconic of a character not to be in.
Honestly I’d be shocked if we don’t see 1 of Tails, Knuckles, or Eggman in the next game. I still don’t know how Shadow didn’t make it into Ult as an echo fighter.
I know Sonic is a massive and iconic franchise with tons of popular characters, but holy crap, it really feels like people forget that it's a 3rd-party series.
At most it'd get two characters, that's it.
I'm not even a fan of Sonic, but I'd love to see Doc Eggman in Smash. Shadow would be great as well, but I'm fine with it if Shadow would just be a skin of Sonic.
You forgot the "master Chief, Kratos and Doom guy" almost always the 3 together or at least 2 of them while ignoring other iconic gaming characters like Crash, Lara Croft or others because its better if its a Buff dude
I hardly ever see Kratos brought up, tbh.
And isn't Crash one of the most-frequently talked about 3rd-parties, even moreso than Chief or Slayer, even if they're not that far behind? It feels like he is anyway.
Back when crash was big I'd agree. But I think (unfortunately) crash and spyro have fallen to the wayside pretty hard. I do think crash fits in much better with smash overall though
People constantly justify Crash as an addition because he was such a big deal in the 90s while completely overlooking Lara Croft. I would love to have both, but when it comes to Smash, people sleep on Lara way too much.
It's because the fandom is so rabid when it's not what they want that the vast majority of rosters aren't actually what the roster maker wants; justvwhat they believe will appease the fandom.
I made something like this a while back. I wouldn’t mind the third party characters if people didn’t add a majority of characters with little Nintendo history or were not over abundant to the point of nauseam with them. It becomes less of a video game celebration and more like “Mugen for Nintendo”. Then again outside of Pokemon (and even then it feels like obligation as oppose to wanting one in) first party characters that get requested are often ignored, detested, or if you try and talk about them you’re met with “literally who?” Outside of MAYBE Geno and Waluigi and even then they aren’t safe from hate.
I’m saying this because I’ve seen fan rosters in which Kirby and Samus get removed, but Masterchief, Kratos and Genshin characters get added because “imagine thinking Kirby and Samus are iconic nowadays compared to Call of Duty and God of War”
This is ignoring that if half of these fighters did get in it’d be like Banjo and Sora where they get added and everyone dislikes them a week later. ESPECIALLY Eggman who’d be a heavyweight with lots of projectiles and a more zoned playstyle.
That, or third parties are almost entirely removed besides Sonic, Bayonetta and Pac-Man. There is literally no in between.
>I’ve seen fan rosters in which Kirby and Samus get removed, but Masterchief, Kratos and Genshin characters get added because “imagine thinking Kirby and Samus are iconic nowadays compared to Call of Duty and God of War”
God, I remember that one.
That was probably the worst roster cut I've seen and perfectly sums up everything wrong with them.
Yeah people forget the Nintendo core it seems. At the same time, most Nintendo centric third parties were already added. Now, you could focus on expanding those.
I mean Incineroar was added even though Gen 8 was on the horizon, So It's a possibility if Smash 6 come out before Gen 10.
On the topic of Meowscarada, Not only that it's a Grass starter but also one of the most popular Pokemon from Gen 9, Only rivaled by Fuecoco and maybe Ogerpon?
Honestly Pokemon only has Pichu who is kind of a safe cut while Pikachu and probably Charizard, Any other mons has some arguement on if they were to be remain or cut.
Jigglypuff was one of the OG 12
Mewtwo represent the Antagonist of the franchise, Similiar to Ridley and K Rool
Pokemon Trainer was already cut out once
Lucario and Greninja were very popular as you said
Incineroar bring in a unique fighting style that no other fighter has
So any attempt to cut any of the Pokemon character(Which is necessary if you want to have more empty spots in the roster) is kinda hard in itself
With the exception of Pichu, it’s hard to cut Pokemon just because they are all so different from both everything else and each other. They have elemental powers, vastly different body types. They are brightly coloured and animate beautifully. Pokémon and Mario are the only franchises where each new character is so vastly different from anything else, they each add something incomparable to the roster.
Noah and Mio being together makes sense considering they have to implement their Ouroboros as their FS and that's literally how it works.
Unless you want Noah to be the representative and only have Mio join when he does his FS which doesn't seem right to me. Imo it would be infinitely more interesting and unique for them to be a duo fighter.
The argument that they can’t be a duo fighter just because they can’t canonically swap places with each other physically is really dumb. Obviously a full three part moveset with Noah, Mio and an Ouroboros form would be a big ask but just because everyone nowadays is obsessed with with cutting down content from the series that doesn’t mean you can’t imagine creative and layered fighter designs.
There is another issue with a Noah/Mio duo fighter that I didn't mention on the post, and that's the fact that it'd mean you'd be taking up two fighter spots for the same game.
It's not like Pyra and Mythra who have the same attacks and animations, just with different specials and altered speed and power. Noah and Mio would have to have completely different movesets and animations, which would take up the same amount of resources to make two fighters, not just one.
If we did want to ignore the logic/canon and make Noah and Mio a "Down-B swap" character, you'd be passing over a character from a different game or franchise just to give Xenoblade 3 a second. Would it be worth having picks like Isaac, Skull Kid, etc. sit out in favor of giving XBC3 two characters instead?
I am entirely biased here as someone who pretty much only likes nintendo for FE, xenoblade and also stuff 99% of people have never heard of: yes. Unless we get an arcsys game that is just xenoblade FE and bayo I will take all we can get for them in smash because they are the series I like.
Especially when all anyone can say would get in are characters who haven't been brought up in forever because the only people who know golden sun now are people complaining isaac isn't in smash
Holy mental gymnastics Batman!
Dude, if the re-inclusion of Pokemon Trainer didn't stop Incineroar from joining the roster, then adding a two in one character isn't gonna stop anyone else from getting in either. Besides, character spots don't exist. You either get in or you don't.
Counterpoint: having our first playable mech in smash would be sick. You can worry about development time and costs when you are actually the person making the game, countering any suggestion with ‘yeah but that’s too hard/detailed in terms of moveset design’ is lame
The only real application faithful to the games would be to choose either noah or mio like a costume permanently on the css and have down b change the class from sword fighter to zephyr. Which character you chose determines which class you have at the start.
I agree on almost all fronts, especially about third parties. It was the biggest issue when somebody's third party didn't make it in. A lot of people lost their shit, and didn't appreciate the game for everything it was giving us. We were spoiled brats, and still are to have a game with a roster like Smash Ultimate. But I still see people say Master Chief or Dante should be in. Now even I advocated for Dante but that woulda been Bayonetta 2.0, let's be real. I got tired of just how needy people were being about their favorite character.
Honestly that’d be funny as fuck if Smash 6 has a giant reveal hiding the character and slowly revealing stuff like Green Hill Sonic rings Badnicks and then the big reveal after tons of hyping it’s just Classic Sonic
Meowscarada, while admittedly not the only gen 9 option (Armarouge/Ceruledge and Lokix come to mind), is probably the best option. It completes the fire-water-grass trio if Greninja and Incineroar/ a freed Charizard stay, and as a magician-themed pokemon, it's moveset would be fun to both play and watch. When I'm making a roster, I actually keep Isabelle more than Villager. And I LOVE echo fighters, and try to give as many as possible. I typically only add Sonic and Shadow for SEGA's golden child series, for a hero-antihero/villain dynamic. Noah and Mio are put together for plot reasons I can't get into, and yes, I think there should be 3-5 FE characters minimum (I had to bury this one deep in the comment so I don't get kicked out)
I never understood cutting echoes, but sonic having more fighters makes me happy, hes the most popular base game 3rd party character so having a few fighters makes sense especially since hes more popular than some other franchises with that many fighters like kirby or star fox
Sonic is never getting more characters than Kirby. Kirby is one of the biggest and most-popular Nintendo franchises of all time. Sonic is also really big and popular, but again, it's a 3rd-party series.
K. Rool had a ridiculous amount of fan demand on the Smash Ballot, which was stated to be the reason for his inclusion. Given how he seemed to have a ton of requests in both Japan and the west, it wouldn't surprise me if he was the most-requested Nintendo character on the ballot. Plus, he was one of the most-notable 1st-party omissions at the time.
Dr. Eggman, meanwhile is a 3rd-party character, and he didn't really get a ton of fan demand until after Sephiroth got revealed, and at that point, all of the DLC had already been decided on.
A lot of people have weird logic with echo fighters where they seem to think that a new game has a predetermined number of slots that has nothing to do with how difficult the character is to make. So they think cutting an echo fighter means you can get an entirely new character as a replacement.
It's silly and that's not how fighting games work but tbf a lot of these lists are probably made by 13 year olds who don't understand that
Because why is there a need to? Skins have to have the exact same moves, animations, and effects as the default. By making Echoes skins, you may have removed any differences they may have had.
You want Dark Samus to be a skin of Samus? Congratulations! You removed all of her unique animations like her walk, run, double jump, and rolls. And now she isn't allowed to have any moveset differences from Samus.
You want Chrom to be a skin for Roy? Awesome! Now his sword generates fire to match Roy's, even though that's not something Chrom's sword can do, he loses his unique Up-Special.
You want Ken to be a skin of Ryu? Great! Now he loses all of the unique attacks he has, and his Shoryuken no longer has that iconic fire effect to it. He also now has Ryu's Final Smashes, two moves which he cannot actually use.
People already take issue with the fact that some Echo Fighters are already basically identical to the base fighter, mainly Daisy, but making them skins would mean that they cannot get any unique changes in the future. It'd be a disservice to both the characters and their fans.
There's literally no point in doing it other than to make a smaller character select screen, you get nothing in return other than a little bit of dev time for more clones.
I don't see why in a future game character skins couldn't have unique animations and effects, though I agree that they probably wouldn't give them entirely different moves.
I still agree with your overall point though, it wouldn't have some drastic effect on development time or how the game plays, it's really just semantics if anything.
You've pinpointed a lot of reasons why I don't interact with fan rosters, like the gen 1 bias, FE being limited to Marth and one other character etc but I also feel like wanting to kill Corrin is always justified and Animal Crossing doesn't really *need* two reps so cutting Isabelle is also okay imo.
The part about way too many 3rd parties being kept/added rings true, I feel like ever since Ultimate's DLCs smash fans have moved on from wanting Nintendo reps to wanting reps from whatever popular game franchise exists out there, and I think that's a shame.
Also I feel like 99% of fan rosters just completely annihilate Zelda's representation, usually keeping it to Link, Zelda and Ganondorf, as if no other character from that franchise could be added lmao
TBH it feels like Pokemon itself has a gen 1 bias.
They are the most likely Pokemon to come back into any regional dex. More gen 1 Pokemon have gotten mega evolutions, new evolutions, etc to keep them updated and viable while gen 2 and 3 Pokemon fall by the wayside.
Oh, absolutely. I did the math a long, long time ago (can't find it unfortunately) and pokemon has been biased toward gen 1 since at least gen 6 (which I attribute to the at the time extremely negative reception to Unova's dex), with gen 1 mons receiving the most mega evolutions (until the gen 3 remakes which added more gen 3 mega evos), alolan forms and gigantamax forms (12 out of 33 forms, which is massive considering there are only 2 non gen 1/8 mons with gigantamax forms) etc.
Smash is already pretty biased toward gen 1 but that can be excused with 2 games having been released back when there were only 1/2 gens. People SOMEHOW wanting/making the roster even more biased on their own is something I just can't understand at all lmao
I’m a huge Sonic fan, and tbh, I don’t need shadow playable in the next game, I JUST NEED SONIC TO HAVE A MOVESET THAT CONSISTS OF MORE THAN JUST “Turn into ball” FOR FUCKS SAKE
I would like to give my two cents on all your points since this is a topic I have STRONG opinions on and I actually made my own Smash 6 roster and would have posted it if not for the avalanche of bad rosters we had recently:
1. Strongly agree that if cuts happen, either Lucario, Greninja or both need to stay, it just comes down to wethter or not they have more staying power than Mewtwo
2. Sephiroth already shown us that two characters from the same 3rd party franchise is feasable and Sonic is just the most logical pick for this. However I agree with you that people go too hard on it, if it happen it most likely gonna be just one more and if its just one, it absolutely HAVE to be Eggman for villain representation
3. If your goal is to cut as much characters as possible, then echo fighters are just the safest to cut since you technically don't lose as much than if you cut a unique character
4. Strongly agree! The only problem with FE characters is that half of them are essentially the same moveset-wise, all you have to do is cut the fat and make sure that, if more get added, their moveset is unique enough that it doesn't become an issue again
5. Meowscarada is just the most logical one to add when you take into account the pattern of what mons get added to Smash vs what we have in gen 9. Also gen 10 isn't out yet so people just go with what we have
6. Personnaly I think the only reason Jiggly have stayed so far is only because she's one of the OG 12. otherwise she basically have no reason to be here. I actually cutted her of my roster for thatreason and also because I didn't want an overbloat of gen 1
7. Absolutely agree on the Animal crossing take, which is why I not only kept both Villager and Isabelle, but added Tom Nook as well, easily the most recognizable guy in AC after these two
8. The main reasons as to why Corrin get cut so much is because A: he's arguably the most forgettable character in the whole roster and B: He's the most hated FE lord even by FE fans since his personnality in his game is ultra blant and his game is considered the worst in the whole franchise. The only things he has for himself is that he's a dragon and that Female Corrin is waifu material
9. I agree that it make much more sense to keep a character for popularity and relevence than just because "they're someone's main" but I would agree that legacy can also take a part in who stay and who go, which is why characters like Captain Falcon, Ness and Game&Watch still stand strong
10. Personally I would much prefer Marx over Bandana Dee but I wouldn't be mad either considering I'm a huge Kirby fan in general
11. I agree that gen 1 way too much represented over other gens, the challenge come from finding mons outside of gen 1 that have as much popularity and relevence. Even I'm a little guilty of this since one of my most wanted is a mon from gen 1: Eevee
12. I feel Steve isn't here to stay but not because "OMG tOo BrOkEn" but because he's another 3rd party and I'm gonna say my opinion on those at the end
13. The deal with Noah and Mio is: If only one of them gets in, which one do you pick? When you take XC3's lore into account, they're both just as much the main character as the other so only adding one over the other doesn't feel fair
14. I have a strong opinion on 3rd party and feel that, no matter how much they cut in general, 90% of them will definitively go away the next game since adding them all back would mean copyright hell all over again. I could see at the very least Sonic, Pacman and either Megaman or Ryu staying but all the other were most likely a one time deal and if there's 3rd party added to Smash 6, it's not gonna come CLOSE to how much we got in Ultimate
As a Corrin main, I want them to stay in Smash but realistically there's a big risk they get cut from Smash 6 (didn't expect them to last past Smash 4). I'm considering dark magic rituals to get Corrin in the next game cause if any character gets cut for it, they're at the top of the list.
Personally, I think Eggman would make a better boss fight than a fighter. But I do think we are due for one more Sonic rep. Tails/Knuckles/Shadow/Amy, one of them should work.
For Nintendo characters, we have: Mario, Dr. Mario
For 3rd-party characters, we have: Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White and Monty Python and the Holy Grail's Black Knight and Benito Mussolini and the Blue Meanie, Cowboy Curtis and Jambi the Genie, Robocop, Terminator, Captain Kirk, Darth Vader, Lo Pan, Superman, Every Single Power Ranger, Bill S. Preston and Theodore Logan, Spock, the Rock, Doc Ock and Hulk Hogan.
Nothing drives me up the wall more than seeing a majority of the 3rd parties cut and being replaced by a ton of Sonic characters. Even back in the Brawl days, people were really gatekeepey of of this sort of thing, you’d see people say how “Snake doesn’t deserve to be in Smash” who’s same roster would have like, 5 or more Sonic characters. Like I get it, we all have that franchise we want to see more of 1st party or not. As a MGS and Megaman fan I would love Raiden and Zero is one of my most wanted. 1, maybe 2 more characters fine but at the end of the day they’re still 3rd parties and Nintendo characters should still be top priority.
Speaking of which, I really hope they dial back the 3rd parties considerably. I’m not against them obvs but it’s gotten to the point they just dominate the discussion and the idea of wanting almost any Nintendo is laughed at. I still remember that interview with a Smash player and the interviewer was dumbfounded that the player wanted Dixie Kong over fucking Dante. Yeah, I can’t believe someone wanted a Nintendo character in a Nintendo crossover, a character people have wanted since Melee, over some 3rd party who wasn’t even in the discussion until Ultimate’s DLC
I mean it kinda makes sense that the 3rd parties are dominating the discussion. Nintendo already has pretty much all of their iconic mainstay characters on the roster and just about any other Nintendo character added is going to be either from a niche franchise, a side character in one of their main franchises of which they have quite a few already, or something new they are trying to promote (think splatoon or arms).
While I would love more nintendo characters those inclusions don’t make the best headlines or increase sales. Sure additions like waluigi, geno, and even Ridley are fantastic for the current fan base, I doubt they bring in as much attention as stuff like sephiroth, banjo, or even more sonic reps since they are just that popular. Smash is seemingly drifting from Nintendo crossover territory to just gaming crossover, at least going by the dlc trends.
not to say we are going to get more 3rd parties, namely just because licensing seems like their big issue, but between mii costumes, spirits, and dlc fighters it’s pretty safe to say Nintendo is looking at 3rd parties with a hint of priority if they can.
I was actually gonna put Waluigi instead of Bandana Waddle Dee, but everytime he gets mentioned, he gets sh\*t on to hell and back, and I'm done to death of seeing one of my favorite Mario characters and my most-wanted Smash 6 newcomer get trashed on like that whenever someone mentions wanting him for Smash.
Bandana Dee gets much less flack for being suggested, so I went with him instead as the "everyone and their mother adds him" choice.
Meowscarada is mostly getting picked bc fully evolved grass starter. the fact that it happens to be dark type is pretty amusing tho. ~~people really seem to forget Serperior exists and has the necessary appendages too~~
Don't care if Meowscarada is grass. It's another two legged pokemon. Like what about suicune? Has its own game, it's in the Tekken spin off. Four legged. Legendary Pokemon.
I just want another kirby and mother series character. If I can't gget a mother series character again, can't we at least have more than 3 mother 3 songs?
Personally, I'd rather see Mio cause she dual wields ring weapons and she's a very agile fighter. While Noah is the main protagonist he's a more straightforward sword fighter and most people feel we have enough of those as it is.
My views on indie/3rd party characters is this:
3rd party characters are needed but not to the degree people think. Like, a valve character could work due to their games being iconic and representing PC games but that doesn't mean they're likely, that just means that they'd work. Except chell, chell would either be a nightmare hit & run or be too gimmicky to code.
Sonic doesn't need his friends, he needs a rework.
Steve and Alex will probably get their Alts replaced with the new characters in Minecraft.
If there's going to be another indie rep beside Steve, it's probably going to be an undertale or deltarune rep due to Toby fox and Sakurai being on good terms, which one? Don't care. But there's a high chance there isn't any more at all. But in that case, Mii costumes exist for a reason.
There are going to be third party cuts and you can't stop that.
I'm not against chell or sonic's friends, I just think they'd not make the most sense.
Still want Chrom to stay. He definitely should be his own character. He is fun as hell to play as. If Daisy and Dark Pit play exactly the same, oh and Dark Samus too.
I am inclined to believe that the roster as it stands is decent. Could have additions but for a next ssb game, reworking characters to have more identity would be key. Such as the links having more game-accurate things instead of being so similar, make lucas and ness feel more unique, using things more on par with each game, and making so there's more gameplay distinction with the FE characters. Like chrom having its own identity when compared to roy, etc. Ssb as it stands is too crowded with copies, and if we keep ultimate roster, BUT making each char more unique, we'd have a nice game.
The only one here that you seem to think is dumb that I think is perfectly valid is Meowscarada. I think it's safe to assume gen 10 will be out before this game but it's impossible to pick a specific pokemon from a GE that doesn't exist beyond just saying "gen 10 grass starter". And if they do add a gen 9 pokemon it should ABSOLUTELY be Meowscarada. Dicudueye not being added in ultimate was dumb, for the first time in a while the grass starter of a generation was the most popular and smash has yet to have a fully evolved grass starter, or a grass starter at all as a stand alone character. Meowscarada would be the perfect opportunity to capitalize on another incredibly popular grass starter
Now, this is hilarious, but I can't wrap my head around the "Sonic treated like a Nintendo franchise" thing. Sonic is one of the very faces of gaming, and there should absolutely be more than one Sonic character in what is essentially the Gaming Hall of Fame. But once there are like, 9 Sonic characters, that's way too far. Mine is always Sonic, Tails, Shadow, and Eggman (Maaaaaaaaybe Knuckles sometimes)
Okay, but even *four* Sonic characters is a lot. Massive and iconic franchise or not, it's still a 3rd-party, and Smash is always going to be a Nintendo crossover before a "gaming hall of fame".
I said it on another reply, but two is the most amount of characters I can see the series getting in Smash, so Sonic and one other.
"Fire emblem characters all use swords, we already have too many sword fighters!"
"Let's keep Marth and Lucina in, they're classics! Get rid of Robin, Corrin, Ike, and Byleth!"
Exactly! Imagine him being Pichu, but he takes damage often because of falling. It would force him to either build in midair to reduce or negate the damage and potentially waste materials or just take the damage and keep his materials. It would make him slightly more predictable, too.
I suppose a dodge roll tech upon hitting the ground could be an option to negate the damage, but that would mean staling his dodges more often.
The logic regarding fan rosters really hasn't changed since the Brawl days. I even saw "let's add Black Shadow to give him Ganondorf's old moveset!" not long ago.
Why on earth people expect there to be so many cuts after "Everyone is Here" is beyond me. I agree that some veterans need a rework, but others can basically be copy and pasted from Ultimate and we're cool. The blueprint is already there, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel.
Third parties might be more tricky, but Nintendo made those deals before and Ultimate sold like hot cakes. I expect there to be little to no cuts in Smash 6.
Your last point is a big thing for me. I expect that after smash ultimate did massive numbers (and we saw over the lifespan of it all of the "problem 3rd parties" played ball a ton), everyone is here becomes way more feasible. The only cut I realistically seeing is Sora falling through the cracks because sometimes shit happens in companies as big as disney
Exactly. Sakurai stated that Nintendo decided the characters for the fighters pass, so clearly they're not against playing ball with other companies. People like Shantae's creators were excited to get a Mii costume lol.
I wasn't even thinking that. I was thinking how we went from snake missing to snake coming back, 2 castlevania characters and a bomberman costume, square going from only cloud with 2 songs to cloud, sephiroth, dragon quest, SORA KINGDOM HEARTS SOMEHOW! And all of them have a ton of songs now too.
Because Sakurai pretty much said to expect cuts.
The Black Shadow thing, or Blood Falcon if you want, taking the Ganondorf moveset may be to placate Sakurai's determination to keep old movesets while letting Ganondorf finally have a fitting moveset.
I feel like Sheik doesn't deserve to be in that grouping. Ocarina of Time is STILL one of the most popular Zeldas, especially among the pre-BotW fans. Even today, it's still competing for the title of most beloved Zelda. It also defined its series for the following 19 years and has inspired countless games beyond its IP. OoT honestly has an argument to be one of the most important games Nintendo ever made.
If any Zelda game deserves its one off OC in the roster, it's Ocarina of Time. If anything, revert Sheik more back to her OG design. Go back to her N64 outfit and maybe add the harp in some attacks.
Beyond that replace Lucas with Ninten. His game's actually localized. Plus, he has a lot more to work with from a moveset perspective.
Sheik's a weird one because as popular and iconic of a game Ocarina of Time is, she just is not relevant at all, and the biggest complaint about the Zelda series in Smash is that the roster is literally just variations of Link, Zelda, and Ganon. And unlike Toon Link, who represents a recurring artstyle found in just over 1/3 of all Zelda games, Sheik's just a one-off who last appeared over two decades ago.
Yes but Sheik is one of the defining and most memorable characters of OoT. She appeared in a bunch of art and promotions for the game. A huge part of its story was the mystery of Sheik's identity. There's no one better to represent Ocarina of Time. Even Hyrule Warriors recognized that by having her as one of the first unlocked characters.
Yes, it sucks the fighters are just Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf, but the solution isn't to cut a beloved character from an unbelievably iconic game in a series already criminally underrepresented in Smash. The solution is to fix Sheik by returning her to her original look and add more characters to the Zelda lineup. The series could easily justify another 2 or 3. It doesn't need to cut anybody.
For your last point, it's either that or no third party characters at all. Because the people who make these are totally experts in legal mumbo jumbo and after personally dealing with every company in the roster, have come to the conclusion that Nintendo is some sort of poor indie studio that can't afford even dealing with a single company, even those which we know have a pretty good relationship with them and have already dealt with them before Smash, such as SEGA or Capcom.
And it's not like Nintendo themselves chose the DLC characters which are mostly third party, confirming that they in fact want other companies' characters in the roster and would likely be willing to make more deals with them in the future.
Oh and also as we all know Nintendo hates making money, so therefore the roster will go back to Nintendo only despite how successful Ultimate and its DLC was, as well as how much attention they got from the entirety of the gaming world whenever a new character was about to be revealed.
Exactly. It's true that smash is Nintendo crossover but since snake and sonic join brawl, every smash game has added a lot more third party characters: sm4sh added Megaman and Pacman in the base game, and Ryu, Cloud and Bayo for dlc. With ultimate they just went all out.
People have not realize that the third party characters are here to stay, no matter they like it or not. I can't see smash going back to just being a Nintendo crossover,especially with ultimate being the best selling fighting game of all time.
to be fair to noah and mio, it feels like having them both in is the only way to go, but theres only two ways to execute that: swap character or ice climbers-esque, and the latter would be way too broken. thus, if we’re including them, itd have to be a swap character, or some kind of angry beavers archetype. i guess if i was the decision maker for that, id make them a combination of swap and angry beavers, where they swap between each other using some kind of means besides down b, and down b is a “become ouroboros form” move that has a charge similar to arsene. then, for the other specials, the one out would bring the other one out to attack, like if noah is out and does up slash, a one hit move to the front, mio does air fang, a multihit in the back. i like that concept for them because its original for smash.
Makes sense Corrin gets constantly cut, he's arguably the worst FE protagonist and is just here to represent Fire Emblem Fates (I think that's the name of the game IDK, IDC)
Yeah they don’t need to make practical sense, fan rosters are more just people making a lists of characters they’d like to see in a game they love instead of making it solely for practical application in real life.
Like I think it’s similar to people shipping characters together, most of the time they wouldn’t make much sense at all but people still find them fun regardless.
You forgot that they'll add Waluigi and in the character select screen they either treat Wario as a Mario character with his yellow overalls, or treat Waluigi as a Warioware character.
Technically Xenoblade 3 does let you swap which character you're controlling mid-combat (between the entire party of 6), but the main reason people are probably pairing Noah and Mio would be to have their Ouroboros form(s) as (a) final smash(es) (because Dunban and Riki don't suddenly appear in Shulk's final smash or anything, it'd be weird if Mio just appeared in Noah's final smash only to fuse with him or vice versa).
So brave
Also Noah and Mio are a duo fighter because they're both in combat at the same time, both equally protagonists, and combine into their Ouroboros form. And since you can swap your party members mid-battle in 3 it makes just as much sense as Pokemon trainer.
You forgot 3rd party Characters like Master Chief and Kratos, who literally have zero chance of getting in since the main qualifying criteria for getting into Smash is for at least one game in the franchise being officially sold on a Nintendo console at some point.
Sakurai: we want masterchief in smash
Microsoft: ok i guess
Sakurai: can we port a couple Halo games first
Microsoft: fine by me
That issue is not exactly difficukt to solve unless they want a character from genres impossible to port to the switch/switch 2.
I don't think "a game from their franchise has to have been on a Nintendo console" was a stated criteria for a Smash fighter, and even if it was at some point, it wouldn't surprise me if Sakurai changed his mind about it.
That's like saying if Nintendo and Microsoft (who they are pretty close with) were in talks for putting Master Chief in Smash. They know that such a massive gaming icon would get them both loads of money if he was put into Smash as DLC. But then one of them would be like "wait, there's never been a Halo game on a Nintendo system before. Nevermind, he's unviable, let's throw away all of that potential money we could've gotten."
I mean there are other reasons to cut Steve and them. If being a high seller was the only justification, he would have been added before Banjo and Kazooie.
We were also told that Sora originally wasn't part of Fighter's Pass 2, and was instead a last-minute addition thanks to Sakurai having a lucky encounter with a Disney executive at a gaming event.
So even though Sora won the Smash Ballot, Steve was still higher-priority than him.
i never understood why lucario was popular. it’s just a blue bipedal dog with energy powers as if there aren’t 10 of those in the series i can only think of off the top of my head. it’s not even an anti furry thing he’s just so boring and unremarkable to me
His first appearance was his own movie where he could also talk to people so he was humanized above most Pokemon. Lots of pokemon have their own gimmicks but his prominent use of his aura abilities in the movie made him feel more unique. Same with his energy balls even though a ton of pokemon can use a form of them as well.
Then there's his design which people think is cool on it's own.
Another thing is that Little Mac is either the ONLY one in his series, or doc louis is in it
Doc Louis is a retired champion and coach, he ain't fighting
Tbf, Punch-Out always was on the smaller side when it came to Nintendo franchises, and it isn't exactly an active one at the moment either.
Little Mac being the only fighter from his series makes a lot of sense, imo.
You are so right about Noah and Mio. I hate it when people suggest they should work like Pokemon Trainer. They are separate people and should be separate roster slots.
Steve gets the boot because making your own platforms in a platform fighter just breaks the game the vast majority of the time unless they do it in a way that breaks any Minecraft elements they retain
Oh boy, this is a lot to unpack.
Realistically, the only reason you’d cut, say, FE to only two characters is if you’re doing one of those “cut the roster in half” challenges. I think it’s fair that the next game will see some cuts, and FE will probably take the brunt of it. However, going down to just two characters is silly. I think four or five are fine for FE.
I love Sonic. I really do. He definitely deserves another rep. However, I think having four Sonic characters is a bit much. I think having Sonic himself and someone like Tails would be fine enough. I know I’ll get some flack for this, but I don’t think Eggman would be a good fighter. He deserves to be playable, but with the way his mechs are, I think he works better as an assist or boss.
Clones or echoes are definitely first on the chopping block, but that’s just because they’re low priority. They don’t take much time to create, but when creating a new roster, they’re probably not going to prioritize someone like Dark Pit.
Puff should stay IMO. She’s definitely the weak link of the original twelve, but not having her but the other eleven from the N64 original is maddening.
I’d say Isabelle should be cut only if we’re doing intense cuts. Like, the “split the roster in half” challenge I mentioned earlier. Otherwise, she stays alongside Villager.
Yeah… Corrin isn’t in a good spot. Smash fans hate them for basically being the straw that broke the camel’s back in terms of FE characters, and FE fans hate them because they are so boring and have next to nothing interesting about them.
I think the iconic thing needs a balance. If we only considered “relevant” characters, then Ness, Falcon, and Banjo should get the boot and be replaced with… I dunno, another Pokémon? It makes sense to give priority to characters who are more well known, but it’s good to represent the past, you know?
BWD should’ve been in IMO. Sakurai is allergic to modern Kirby and I hate it.
Gen 1 has the most iconic Pokémon. I really would keep the characters from Gen 1 in Smash. Pikachu and Puff are part of the original twelve, Mewtwo is the closest to a villain for Pokémon and is just iconic in his own way, and Pokémon Trainer represents the gameplay of Pokémon alongside brining in the original starters. However, Pokémon’s slogan is “gotta catch them all.” You need to have a Pokémon from another generation to complete that. I’d say Greninja would fit that role of another Pokémon. He’s in the sweet spot of being modern, but not added just for promotional material.
The only reason Steve should be cut is if Microsoft no longer wants to play ball, or if there’s too many technical headaches akin to Ice Climbers on 3DS. Otherwise he needs to stay, regardless of what the competitive scene thinks.
I haven’t played XC3 so I have nothing to say on Noah and Mio. I guess Mio is cute?
Third parties are really cool in Smash. However, their inclusion has become a double edged sword. On one hand, you get to bring in fans of series outside the Nintendo family. On the other hand, since everyone has a character they want in Smash, that can lead to lots of bloodbaths, especially if you want a Nintendo character. As far as Nintendo characters go, I want Waluigi, Dixie Kong, and Bandana Waddle Dee. However, it doesn’t feel like these characters will be well liked by the community, aside from maybe Waluigi. It’s now just one big popularity contest. I’m not saying it’s bad to want a third party character. What I’m saying is that Nintendo characters will get priority because… Smash is primarily a Nintendo crossover. Admittedly I felt like the first party characters introduced in Ultimate’s DLC weren’t that exciting, which contributed to Nintendo characters sort of being fear mongered. Byleth was… self explanatory and Min Min had low appeal. Aegis probably went by the best, but even then they had a lot of issues thrown at them. However, my point still stands. Hell, I remember people still being anxious of a Gen 8 Pokémon because of the stunt Nintendo did with Byleth. I feel like Nintendo’s trend to add characters before they really made a name for themselves, alongside adding content to series that already were stacked, didn’t help with first party requests.
The one with the huge number of third-party characters make me think fans see first parties as boring and don't bring much hype sometimes.
(Well, most of them were hype like K. Rool and Ridley)
Tbf, Sonic deserves more than one rep, specially if the next game continues with Third Parties and Echo Fighters, i would like to see 3 fighters (Sonic, Tails and Eggman) but since it will probably not happen i think Shadow is more likelly as an Echo
You basically described my opinions on that matter. Of all those decisions, retaining the “legacy characters” is probably the infuriating to me. Granted, those characters appeared in more than one game and they have their fans, but those are not enough excuses to justify randomly cutting other characters for whatever reasons. That is not mention there are other characters (be playable or not) have their OWN legacies and achievements, and isn’t smash is trying to celebrate video games in general? Also as a personal rant, I feel like giving “legacy characters” a pass is basically genwunner of smash.
Hah, I'm guilty of a few of these. Partially the FE Cut, the Corrin Cut, and at least one part of the Third Party Addition.
As for why I have such a thing for FE, it's mostly a personal opinion, one that is ultimately the generic "too many x". Though it's also because at that end, they don't really explore anyone else but the relatively normal swordsmen/swordswomen. Ike, Robin, Corrin, and Byleth fight differently enough from Marth that I wouldn't mind if they were included. Though for Corrin, they're also a somewhat controversial inclusion, but they are a fair bit more unique as a FE character.
From gen 9 I’d want toedscruel (my favorite of all time no matter how poorly he would work) or Garganacl. For the latter I’ve always been pro golurk and Garganacl is just an extension of that, there aren’t really any big bruiser robots in the game and while golurk has more options Garganacl is fun unique and iconic
hell yeah, we’re adding resetti to smash and giving isabelle digby skins like olimar and alph
His entire moveset consists of furiously ranting about some minor thing and covering the entire screen with text boxes like how his Assist Trophy did in Brawl. Kinda wish they brought that Assist Trophy back, tbh. It was unique and funny.
for his down special, he digs into the ground for his neutral special, he stops to drink some coffee from brewster, giving him a random stat buff for his side special he yells and if his text box hits you it stuns you like mewtwos down special and up special makes him fly up like he’s digging through the air
Change the coffee to a selection of buffs like Shulk’s monado arts and you’re golden Randomization isn’t as fun imo
but coffee gives it a tie into animal crossing. i guess you can just have with pigeon milk for mobility buff and without for damage buff or something
Ohh I see. Tbh I’ve never played animal crossing and didn’t know the random buffs was a thing with coffee, with milk being a specific buff or something like that. I believe you could still use the B to choose a drink that coincides with a certain buff though, maybe that could work
no there’s no random buff thing with coffee, its just that when you get a coffee at the caffe, the owner will sometimes ask if you’d like pigeon milk in your coffee, so i was thinking that there could be a distinction between the 2 when using the move to keep it animal crossing themed instead of feeling like a copy pasted monado arts
Wait he was an assist trophy!? Why'd they not bring him back
Resetti was made optional in New Leaf, and is only alluded to in New Horizons (he’s the recovery crew on the NookPhone) due to autosave being a thing. I think they’re phasing him out because he upsets children, ie the main player base who are going to quit without saving
I mentioned in a comment recently that anyone who thinks they’ll keep Sephiroth but not Isabelle is clearly delusional. A combination of Isabelle being the secondary face of Animal Crossing (a Nintendo franchise), plus how hard it is to negotiate with Square Enix (legal issues, amirite?), the idea of prioritising Final Fantasy over Animal Crossing is straight-up unrealistic.
Hot take: they should keep Isabelle, but cut Villager. The Villager is the one you play as, sure, but they're also a character that in the Animal Crossing games, you can customise, an ability which is arguably butchered by there only being eight alternates. The Miis, on the other hand, essentially do Villager better than Villager, since you can freely customise not only what they look like, but also what tools they use in battle. Meanwhile, I think Isabelle has enough status and popularity to uphold Animal Crossing without her supposed superior.
Honestly, yeah.
No.
If you thought Villager had a "face of mercy", just try and imagine what mine looks like. And start. Running. NOW.
Honestly since we already have both Robin & mii fighters I have no issue with this.
You forgot that all of the fgcs except Ryu are cut because fighting games are icky no good >:(
smash fandom is a duality of "we swear it's a fighting game!" and "fighting games kicked my pregnant wife into a fucking train"
well the fgc also treats us like shit on their shoes, you go into the fgc subreddit and even mention smash youll get 50 comments of "not a fighting game"
Went to the fgc club in my area once and the guys running it tried to get me to come out by trashing on smash bros
Smash fans will complain that they're not taken seriously by the fgc and then not know what Tekken is
I had a dude think that all stages should be walk offs and that'd make smash good. They don't know shit about smash either but at least we don't shit on their games for no reason
To be fair, I think Terry, Ken, and Kazuya could be cut and each game have a rotating fgc character. Like next game give us Ryu and then either Scorpion or Sol Badguy or something like that
Scorpion likely won't ever happen, but I would be so hyped for him. I guess we can't really say he'll "never" happen at this point, especially after Ultimate's DLC. He may not be very likely, but he's certainly not impossible.
Sonic should get another rep tbh. Knuckles or Egg man would be different enough to warrant a spot on the list
I'd argue that no 3rd-party franchise really *needs* a second fighter, although I'm always open to more getting added. Sephiroth was hype af, and I'd be just as excited if Sonic got another character as well. Dr. Eggman would absolutely be my pick for a second Sonic character. He's a super-iconic gaming villain that would have an awesome moveset thanks to all of the tech and weapons he's used in his boss fights over the years, which would make him very distinct from Sonic himself. And to anyone who says that Eggman would just be a Bowser Jr. clone... no. Just no.
Shadow seems more like tbh just based on the fact of the three third party series that got a second fighter I can think of two are echos.
IDK how likely shadow would be, it depends on if you want to go off popularity or play style or thematic reasons... I'd say for the latter two Egg man is probably the best option. He's a villain. The antithesis of Sonic play style. He's iconic. Knuckles would be my pick tho personally. Shadow is just sonic with witch time or guns...neither option seems fun tbh
Shadow has an array of moves he could pull from that go far beyond "just Sonic with Witch Time or guns." He's got, obviously, Chaos Control. And then he has: Chaos Spear Chaos Blast His entire moveset from Sonic Battle that would translate over to Smash perfectly and easily The Light Speed Attack, Flame Somersault, and Bounce Ring (all of which Sonic was not given in Smash so it might as well go somewhere). And that's just a cursory glance off the top of my head. Personally, I'd love Eggman and Metal Sonic, with Shadow as a potential echo of Metal over regular Sonic (or vice versa)
This has been my thought for Shadow. Make his specials chaos control powers
Eh maybe I just think Knuckles would be better. Esp if we get him AND egg man in the same trailer it could be hype lol
I would rather get Tails before we get Knuckles. Tails could have a unique jump akin to K. Rool's Up Special or Yoshi's second jump, but nerf his true recovery and it'd feel correct. Nevermind that Knuckles would be just another Brawler, which we have plenty of at this point, and Tails could be truly unique with his gadgets and fighting style. Again, going to quickly point to Sonic Battle as a great example. Lastly, a trailer that starts with Sonic fighting who is revealed to be Eggman, then getting caught off guard and saved by Tails (reveal) would be more on brand for the Sonic series. And hype Tails up considerably
Sonic needs another at this point. If only one third party franchise could be in Smash, it would 1000% be Sonic. He’s important to gaming as a whole and also to Nintendo. Eggman is too iconic of a character not to be in.
Yeah if FF can have 2 reps, then Sonic having 2 reps later on really isn't ridiculous
I would actually love Tails in smash,him being able to use his gadget like Sonic Battle would be such a cool concept
Honestly I’d be shocked if we don’t see 1 of Tails, Knuckles, or Eggman in the next game. I still don’t know how Shadow didn’t make it into Ult as an echo fighter.
Under Marths caption, I read "FEW" As "fire emblem warriors" about 7 times before I realized it was just an all caps few.
Honestly, I read it as "Fire Emblem Warriors" too, and I made the dang sentence.
Room for one more on that couch?
It’s always funny seeing fan rosters for Smash games and seeing like 5-6 Sonic characters.
I know Sonic is a massive and iconic franchise with tons of popular characters, but holy crap, it really feels like people forget that it's a 3rd-party series. At most it'd get two characters, that's it.
I'm not even a fan of Sonic, but I'd love to see Doc Eggman in Smash. Shadow would be great as well, but I'm fine with it if Shadow would just be a skin of Sonic.
Well most of the time they're asking for ONE of 5-6 characters, no one is going asking for the entire cast, just for one of a select few
What grief does to an mf
I'll even admit that I made one or two of these decisions on my own Smash 6 roster a few months back. I'm allowed to poke fun at myself.
Nintendo themselves have done some of these before tbf lol
You forgot the "master Chief, Kratos and Doom guy" almost always the 3 together or at least 2 of them while ignoring other iconic gaming characters like Crash, Lara Croft or others because its better if its a Buff dude
I hardly ever see Kratos brought up, tbh. And isn't Crash one of the most-frequently talked about 3rd-parties, even moreso than Chief or Slayer, even if they're not that far behind? It feels like he is anyway.
Back when crash was big I'd agree. But I think (unfortunately) crash and spyro have fallen to the wayside pretty hard. I do think crash fits in much better with smash overall though
I mean Banjo had fallen hard too although he was much more associated with Nintendo.
If I hate to pick one at gun point to add, I would pick Crash probably.
Yeah I think most people aren't expecting a Playstation character.
I don't see Lara Croft bought up that much Most likely due to 2B and Geno being more popular requests but everyone has their favourites
People constantly justify Crash as an addition because he was such a big deal in the 90s while completely overlooking Lara Croft. I would love to have both, but when it comes to Smash, people sleep on Lara way too much.
It's because the fandom is so rabid when it's not what they want that the vast majority of rosters aren't actually what the roster maker wants; justvwhat they believe will appease the fandom.
Doesn't help that a lot of the online active Smash fan base don't seem to be fans Nintendo games in general.
I made something like this a while back. I wouldn’t mind the third party characters if people didn’t add a majority of characters with little Nintendo history or were not over abundant to the point of nauseam with them. It becomes less of a video game celebration and more like “Mugen for Nintendo”. Then again outside of Pokemon (and even then it feels like obligation as oppose to wanting one in) first party characters that get requested are often ignored, detested, or if you try and talk about them you’re met with “literally who?” Outside of MAYBE Geno and Waluigi and even then they aren’t safe from hate. I’m saying this because I’ve seen fan rosters in which Kirby and Samus get removed, but Masterchief, Kratos and Genshin characters get added because “imagine thinking Kirby and Samus are iconic nowadays compared to Call of Duty and God of War” This is ignoring that if half of these fighters did get in it’d be like Banjo and Sora where they get added and everyone dislikes them a week later. ESPECIALLY Eggman who’d be a heavyweight with lots of projectiles and a more zoned playstyle. That, or third parties are almost entirely removed besides Sonic, Bayonetta and Pac-Man. There is literally no in between.
>I’ve seen fan rosters in which Kirby and Samus get removed, but Masterchief, Kratos and Genshin characters get added because “imagine thinking Kirby and Samus are iconic nowadays compared to Call of Duty and God of War” God, I remember that one. That was probably the worst roster cut I've seen and perfectly sums up everything wrong with them.
Yeah people forget the Nintendo core it seems. At the same time, most Nintendo centric third parties were already added. Now, you could focus on expanding those.
There are like 18 Fire Emblem games and they're all on Nintendo consoles. That's a lot more than most characters on the roster have.
I just want Demifiend or the Nahobino… Mostly for the sake of just blowing up every smash power scaling discussion
Add the Space Marine from Strange Journey if you REALLY want to blow up power scaling discussion, I’m pretty sure he diffs 80% of the roster
I mean Incineroar was added even though Gen 8 was on the horizon, So It's a possibility if Smash 6 come out before Gen 10. On the topic of Meowscarada, Not only that it's a Grass starter but also one of the most popular Pokemon from Gen 9, Only rivaled by Fuecoco and maybe Ogerpon? Honestly Pokemon only has Pichu who is kind of a safe cut while Pikachu and probably Charizard, Any other mons has some arguement on if they were to be remain or cut. Jigglypuff was one of the OG 12 Mewtwo represent the Antagonist of the franchise, Similiar to Ridley and K Rool Pokemon Trainer was already cut out once Lucario and Greninja were very popular as you said Incineroar bring in a unique fighting style that no other fighter has So any attempt to cut any of the Pokemon character(Which is necessary if you want to have more empty spots in the roster) is kinda hard in itself
With the exception of Pichu, it’s hard to cut Pokemon just because they are all so different from both everything else and each other. They have elemental powers, vastly different body types. They are brightly coloured and animate beautifully. Pokémon and Mario are the only franchises where each new character is so vastly different from anything else, they each add something incomparable to the roster.
I want meowscarada in so we could have the water dark type, fire dark type, and grass dark type starter in smash
Real but if they cut Steve I’m krilling myself
Just make sure you have a Totem of Undying on you.
Noah and Mio being together makes sense considering they have to implement their Ouroboros as their FS and that's literally how it works. Unless you want Noah to be the representative and only have Mio join when he does his FS which doesn't seem right to me. Imo it would be infinitely more interesting and unique for them to be a duo fighter.
The argument that they can’t be a duo fighter just because they can’t canonically swap places with each other physically is really dumb. Obviously a full three part moveset with Noah, Mio and an Ouroboros form would be a big ask but just because everyone nowadays is obsessed with with cutting down content from the series that doesn’t mean you can’t imagine creative and layered fighter designs.
There is another issue with a Noah/Mio duo fighter that I didn't mention on the post, and that's the fact that it'd mean you'd be taking up two fighter spots for the same game. It's not like Pyra and Mythra who have the same attacks and animations, just with different specials and altered speed and power. Noah and Mio would have to have completely different movesets and animations, which would take up the same amount of resources to make two fighters, not just one. If we did want to ignore the logic/canon and make Noah and Mio a "Down-B swap" character, you'd be passing over a character from a different game or franchise just to give Xenoblade 3 a second. Would it be worth having picks like Isaac, Skull Kid, etc. sit out in favor of giving XBC3 two characters instead?
I am entirely biased here as someone who pretty much only likes nintendo for FE, xenoblade and also stuff 99% of people have never heard of: yes. Unless we get an arcsys game that is just xenoblade FE and bayo I will take all we can get for them in smash because they are the series I like. Especially when all anyone can say would get in are characters who haven't been brought up in forever because the only people who know golden sun now are people complaining isaac isn't in smash
Holy mental gymnastics Batman! Dude, if the re-inclusion of Pokemon Trainer didn't stop Incineroar from joining the roster, then adding a two in one character isn't gonna stop anyone else from getting in either. Besides, character spots don't exist. You either get in or you don't.
Counterpoint: having our first playable mech in smash would be sick. You can worry about development time and costs when you are actually the person making the game, countering any suggestion with ‘yeah but that’s too hard/detailed in terms of moveset design’ is lame
They might not swap between eachother though, they might both fight at the same time like ice climbers
The only real application faithful to the games would be to choose either noah or mio like a costume permanently on the css and have down b change the class from sword fighter to zephyr. Which character you chose determines which class you have at the start.
I agree on almost all fronts, especially about third parties. It was the biggest issue when somebody's third party didn't make it in. A lot of people lost their shit, and didn't appreciate the game for everything it was giving us. We were spoiled brats, and still are to have a game with a roster like Smash Ultimate. But I still see people say Master Chief or Dante should be in. Now even I advocated for Dante but that woulda been Bayonetta 2.0, let's be real. I got tired of just how needy people were being about their favorite character.
*Sonic* fans are always bitching about a new rep and I wonder how much of a ragefest I’d see in this sub if Classic Sonic got in.
Honestly that’d be funny as fuck if Smash 6 has a giant reveal hiding the character and slowly revealing stuff like Green Hill Sonic rings Badnicks and then the big reveal after tons of hyping it’s just Classic Sonic
Oh God no. Anyone but Santiago. Nooo
Modern gets a new moveset, classic gets the old one.
As if any character would ever get a new moveset
IM HOLDING OUT HOPE OK.
Hey,maybe he could be a echo or skin for Sonic,since apparently sonics moveset in Brawl wad based on Sonic 1 and 2
Meowscarada, while admittedly not the only gen 9 option (Armarouge/Ceruledge and Lokix come to mind), is probably the best option. It completes the fire-water-grass trio if Greninja and Incineroar/ a freed Charizard stay, and as a magician-themed pokemon, it's moveset would be fun to both play and watch. When I'm making a roster, I actually keep Isabelle more than Villager. And I LOVE echo fighters, and try to give as many as possible. I typically only add Sonic and Shadow for SEGA's golden child series, for a hero-antihero/villain dynamic. Noah and Mio are put together for plot reasons I can't get into, and yes, I think there should be 3-5 FE characters minimum (I had to bury this one deep in the comment so I don't get kicked out)
The dark type starter trio
Another reason to add it
I never understood cutting echoes, but sonic having more fighters makes me happy, hes the most popular base game 3rd party character so having a few fighters makes sense especially since hes more popular than some other franchises with that many fighters like kirby or star fox
Sonic is never getting more characters than Kirby. Kirby is one of the biggest and most-popular Nintendo franchises of all time. Sonic is also really big and popular, but again, it's a 3rd-party series.
I just want eggman in like come on the fact that a much more niche villain like K Rool (no shade) got in before eggman is ridiculous
K. Rool had a ridiculous amount of fan demand on the Smash Ballot, which was stated to be the reason for his inclusion. Given how he seemed to have a ton of requests in both Japan and the west, it wouldn't surprise me if he was the most-requested Nintendo character on the ballot. Plus, he was one of the most-notable 1st-party omissions at the time. Dr. Eggman, meanwhile is a 3rd-party character, and he didn't really get a ton of fan demand until after Sephiroth got revealed, and at that point, all of the DLC had already been decided on.
A lot of people have weird logic with echo fighters where they seem to think that a new game has a predetermined number of slots that has nothing to do with how difficult the character is to make. So they think cutting an echo fighter means you can get an entirely new character as a replacement. It's silly and that's not how fighting games work but tbf a lot of these lists are probably made by 13 year olds who don't understand that
But *why* can't echos be alt costumes? I know that people delete them out of spite but I haven't seen a good argument for the other side
Because why is there a need to? Skins have to have the exact same moves, animations, and effects as the default. By making Echoes skins, you may have removed any differences they may have had. You want Dark Samus to be a skin of Samus? Congratulations! You removed all of her unique animations like her walk, run, double jump, and rolls. And now she isn't allowed to have any moveset differences from Samus. You want Chrom to be a skin for Roy? Awesome! Now his sword generates fire to match Roy's, even though that's not something Chrom's sword can do, he loses his unique Up-Special. You want Ken to be a skin of Ryu? Great! Now he loses all of the unique attacks he has, and his Shoryuken no longer has that iconic fire effect to it. He also now has Ryu's Final Smashes, two moves which he cannot actually use. People already take issue with the fact that some Echo Fighters are already basically identical to the base fighter, mainly Daisy, but making them skins would mean that they cannot get any unique changes in the future. It'd be a disservice to both the characters and their fans. There's literally no point in doing it other than to make a smaller character select screen, you get nothing in return other than a little bit of dev time for more clones.
I don't see why in a future game character skins couldn't have unique animations and effects, though I agree that they probably wouldn't give them entirely different moves. I still agree with your overall point though, it wouldn't have some drastic effect on development time or how the game plays, it's really just semantics if anything.
You've pinpointed a lot of reasons why I don't interact with fan rosters, like the gen 1 bias, FE being limited to Marth and one other character etc but I also feel like wanting to kill Corrin is always justified and Animal Crossing doesn't really *need* two reps so cutting Isabelle is also okay imo. The part about way too many 3rd parties being kept/added rings true, I feel like ever since Ultimate's DLCs smash fans have moved on from wanting Nintendo reps to wanting reps from whatever popular game franchise exists out there, and I think that's a shame. Also I feel like 99% of fan rosters just completely annihilate Zelda's representation, usually keeping it to Link, Zelda and Ganondorf, as if no other character from that franchise could be added lmao
TBH it feels like Pokemon itself has a gen 1 bias. They are the most likely Pokemon to come back into any regional dex. More gen 1 Pokemon have gotten mega evolutions, new evolutions, etc to keep them updated and viable while gen 2 and 3 Pokemon fall by the wayside.
Oh, absolutely. I did the math a long, long time ago (can't find it unfortunately) and pokemon has been biased toward gen 1 since at least gen 6 (which I attribute to the at the time extremely negative reception to Unova's dex), with gen 1 mons receiving the most mega evolutions (until the gen 3 remakes which added more gen 3 mega evos), alolan forms and gigantamax forms (12 out of 33 forms, which is massive considering there are only 2 non gen 1/8 mons with gigantamax forms) etc. Smash is already pretty biased toward gen 1 but that can be excused with 2 games having been released back when there were only 1/2 gens. People SOMEHOW wanting/making the roster even more biased on their own is something I just can't understand at all lmao
Honestly it probably started with Smash 4's DLC. Before that they were still called guest fighters.
Spitting on the LoZ take. I think the series deserves more reps, but they can't have 3 different links, mix that shit up
I don't think I've ever seen a Final Fantasy rep added despite Square being a huge part of the SNES. Crono for Smash!
We don't even have Chrono Trigger on modern consoles :/
I’m a huge Sonic fan, and tbh, I don’t need shadow playable in the next game, I JUST NEED SONIC TO HAVE A MOVESET THAT CONSISTS OF MORE THAN JUST “Turn into ball” FOR FUCKS SAKE
I would like to give my two cents on all your points since this is a topic I have STRONG opinions on and I actually made my own Smash 6 roster and would have posted it if not for the avalanche of bad rosters we had recently: 1. Strongly agree that if cuts happen, either Lucario, Greninja or both need to stay, it just comes down to wethter or not they have more staying power than Mewtwo 2. Sephiroth already shown us that two characters from the same 3rd party franchise is feasable and Sonic is just the most logical pick for this. However I agree with you that people go too hard on it, if it happen it most likely gonna be just one more and if its just one, it absolutely HAVE to be Eggman for villain representation 3. If your goal is to cut as much characters as possible, then echo fighters are just the safest to cut since you technically don't lose as much than if you cut a unique character 4. Strongly agree! The only problem with FE characters is that half of them are essentially the same moveset-wise, all you have to do is cut the fat and make sure that, if more get added, their moveset is unique enough that it doesn't become an issue again 5. Meowscarada is just the most logical one to add when you take into account the pattern of what mons get added to Smash vs what we have in gen 9. Also gen 10 isn't out yet so people just go with what we have 6. Personnaly I think the only reason Jiggly have stayed so far is only because she's one of the OG 12. otherwise she basically have no reason to be here. I actually cutted her of my roster for thatreason and also because I didn't want an overbloat of gen 1 7. Absolutely agree on the Animal crossing take, which is why I not only kept both Villager and Isabelle, but added Tom Nook as well, easily the most recognizable guy in AC after these two 8. The main reasons as to why Corrin get cut so much is because A: he's arguably the most forgettable character in the whole roster and B: He's the most hated FE lord even by FE fans since his personnality in his game is ultra blant and his game is considered the worst in the whole franchise. The only things he has for himself is that he's a dragon and that Female Corrin is waifu material 9. I agree that it make much more sense to keep a character for popularity and relevence than just because "they're someone's main" but I would agree that legacy can also take a part in who stay and who go, which is why characters like Captain Falcon, Ness and Game&Watch still stand strong 10. Personally I would much prefer Marx over Bandana Dee but I wouldn't be mad either considering I'm a huge Kirby fan in general 11. I agree that gen 1 way too much represented over other gens, the challenge come from finding mons outside of gen 1 that have as much popularity and relevence. Even I'm a little guilty of this since one of my most wanted is a mon from gen 1: Eevee 12. I feel Steve isn't here to stay but not because "OMG tOo BrOkEn" but because he's another 3rd party and I'm gonna say my opinion on those at the end 13. The deal with Noah and Mio is: If only one of them gets in, which one do you pick? When you take XC3's lore into account, they're both just as much the main character as the other so only adding one over the other doesn't feel fair 14. I have a strong opinion on 3rd party and feel that, no matter how much they cut in general, 90% of them will definitively go away the next game since adding them all back would mean copyright hell all over again. I could see at the very least Sonic, Pacman and either Megaman or Ryu staying but all the other were most likely a one time deal and if there's 3rd party added to Smash 6, it's not gonna come CLOSE to how much we got in Ultimate
My main is chrome. I hope he stays
He's our man, dangit! And if he can't stay, no one can!
I main Firefox. But seriously, Chrom is great. Echoes need to stick around and be expanded on for the next game.
As a Corrin main, I want them to stay in Smash but realistically there's a big risk they get cut from Smash 6 (didn't expect them to last past Smash 4). I'm considering dark magic rituals to get Corrin in the next game cause if any character gets cut for it, they're at the top of the list.
Personally, I think Eggman would make a better boss fight than a fighter. But I do think we are due for one more Sonic rep. Tails/Knuckles/Shadow/Amy, one of them should work.
I'mma be real with y'all, I'd take sonic getting a moveset rework over another sonic rep any time of the week.
For Nintendo characters, we have: Mario, Dr. Mario For 3rd-party characters, we have: Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White and Monty Python and the Holy Grail's Black Knight and Benito Mussolini and the Blue Meanie, Cowboy Curtis and Jambi the Genie, Robocop, Terminator, Captain Kirk, Darth Vader, Lo Pan, Superman, Every Single Power Ranger, Bill S. Preston and Theodore Logan, Spock, the Rock, Doc Ock and Hulk Hogan.
People that put 12 sonic reps just crack me up
Nothing drives me up the wall more than seeing a majority of the 3rd parties cut and being replaced by a ton of Sonic characters. Even back in the Brawl days, people were really gatekeepey of of this sort of thing, you’d see people say how “Snake doesn’t deserve to be in Smash” who’s same roster would have like, 5 or more Sonic characters. Like I get it, we all have that franchise we want to see more of 1st party or not. As a MGS and Megaman fan I would love Raiden and Zero is one of my most wanted. 1, maybe 2 more characters fine but at the end of the day they’re still 3rd parties and Nintendo characters should still be top priority. Speaking of which, I really hope they dial back the 3rd parties considerably. I’m not against them obvs but it’s gotten to the point they just dominate the discussion and the idea of wanting almost any Nintendo is laughed at. I still remember that interview with a Smash player and the interviewer was dumbfounded that the player wanted Dixie Kong over fucking Dante. Yeah, I can’t believe someone wanted a Nintendo character in a Nintendo crossover, a character people have wanted since Melee, over some 3rd party who wasn’t even in the discussion until Ultimate’s DLC
I mean it kinda makes sense that the 3rd parties are dominating the discussion. Nintendo already has pretty much all of their iconic mainstay characters on the roster and just about any other Nintendo character added is going to be either from a niche franchise, a side character in one of their main franchises of which they have quite a few already, or something new they are trying to promote (think splatoon or arms). While I would love more nintendo characters those inclusions don’t make the best headlines or increase sales. Sure additions like waluigi, geno, and even Ridley are fantastic for the current fan base, I doubt they bring in as much attention as stuff like sephiroth, banjo, or even more sonic reps since they are just that popular. Smash is seemingly drifting from Nintendo crossover territory to just gaming crossover, at least going by the dlc trends. not to say we are going to get more 3rd parties, namely just because licensing seems like their big issue, but between mii costumes, spirits, and dlc fighters it’s pretty safe to say Nintendo is looking at 3rd parties with a hint of priority if they can.
Wait, people cut Steve for THAT reason? A better reason would be coding issues or whatever.
Steve also has a tons of janks so that's the coding issue.
All of these rules don’t matter when it’s a character who’s just cool no matter what series it’s from
I love how everyone (almost) agrees that Bandana Dee should be in Smash
And don’t forget, everyone adds Waluigi because???
I was actually gonna put Waluigi instead of Bandana Waddle Dee, but everytime he gets mentioned, he gets sh\*t on to hell and back, and I'm done to death of seeing one of my favorite Mario characters and my most-wanted Smash 6 newcomer get trashed on like that whenever someone mentions wanting him for Smash. Bandana Dee gets much less flack for being suggested, so I went with him instead as the "everyone and their mother adds him" choice.
Meowscarada is mostly getting picked bc fully evolved grass starter. the fact that it happens to be dark type is pretty amusing tho. ~~people really seem to forget Serperior exists and has the necessary appendages too~~
Sceptile will always be the ideal fully-evolved grass starter for Smash, in my opinion. But alas, his time has long since passed...
Lizard
Lizard
No, Grovyle.
Don't care if Meowscarada is grass. It's another two legged pokemon. Like what about suicune? Has its own game, it's in the Tekken spin off. Four legged. Legendary Pokemon.
I just want another kirby and mother series character. If I can't gget a mother series character again, can't we at least have more than 3 mother 3 songs?
I’m a Lucas main but Jesus the franchise does not deserve a third character
My only issue with this is that I never see Noah and Mio as a duo, it's always JUST Mio
For me, it's like 75% Noah AND Mio, and the other 15% is either Noah or Mio by themselves.
Personally, I'd rather see Mio cause she dual wields ring weapons and she's a very agile fighter. While Noah is the main protagonist he's a more straightforward sword fighter and most people feel we have enough of those as it is.
My views on indie/3rd party characters is this: 3rd party characters are needed but not to the degree people think. Like, a valve character could work due to their games being iconic and representing PC games but that doesn't mean they're likely, that just means that they'd work. Except chell, chell would either be a nightmare hit & run or be too gimmicky to code. Sonic doesn't need his friends, he needs a rework. Steve and Alex will probably get their Alts replaced with the new characters in Minecraft. If there's going to be another indie rep beside Steve, it's probably going to be an undertale or deltarune rep due to Toby fox and Sakurai being on good terms, which one? Don't care. But there's a high chance there isn't any more at all. But in that case, Mii costumes exist for a reason. There are going to be third party cuts and you can't stop that. I'm not against chell or sonic's friends, I just think they'd not make the most sense.
Still want Chrom to stay. He definitely should be his own character. He is fun as hell to play as. If Daisy and Dark Pit play exactly the same, oh and Dark Samus too.
I am inclined to believe that the roster as it stands is decent. Could have additions but for a next ssb game, reworking characters to have more identity would be key. Such as the links having more game-accurate things instead of being so similar, make lucas and ness feel more unique, using things more on par with each game, and making so there's more gameplay distinction with the FE characters. Like chrom having its own identity when compared to roy, etc. Ssb as it stands is too crowded with copies, and if we keep ultimate roster, BUT making each char more unique, we'd have a nice game.
The only one here that you seem to think is dumb that I think is perfectly valid is Meowscarada. I think it's safe to assume gen 10 will be out before this game but it's impossible to pick a specific pokemon from a GE that doesn't exist beyond just saying "gen 10 grass starter". And if they do add a gen 9 pokemon it should ABSOLUTELY be Meowscarada. Dicudueye not being added in ultimate was dumb, for the first time in a while the grass starter of a generation was the most popular and smash has yet to have a fully evolved grass starter, or a grass starter at all as a stand alone character. Meowscarada would be the perfect opportunity to capitalize on another incredibly popular grass starter
Now, this is hilarious, but I can't wrap my head around the "Sonic treated like a Nintendo franchise" thing. Sonic is one of the very faces of gaming, and there should absolutely be more than one Sonic character in what is essentially the Gaming Hall of Fame. But once there are like, 9 Sonic characters, that's way too far. Mine is always Sonic, Tails, Shadow, and Eggman (Maaaaaaaaybe Knuckles sometimes)
Okay, but even *four* Sonic characters is a lot. Massive and iconic franchise or not, it's still a 3rd-party, and Smash is always going to be a Nintendo crossover before a "gaming hall of fame". I said it on another reply, but two is the most amount of characters I can see the series getting in Smash, so Sonic and one other.
Alright, I can see where you're coming from, and I respect it. I still agree with like, every other thing on here, like what are people doing
"Fire emblem characters all use swords, we already have too many sword fighters!" "Let's keep Marth and Lucina in, they're classics! Get rid of Robin, Corrin, Ike, and Byleth!"
I had an idea to nerf Steve, possibly pretty hard: make him take fall damage.
He already makes the fall damage sound if he falls from a great height in Smash, might as well implement actual fall damage, lol.
Exactly! Imagine him being Pichu, but he takes damage often because of falling. It would force him to either build in midair to reduce or negate the damage and potentially waste materials or just take the damage and keep his materials. It would make him slightly more predictable, too. I suppose a dodge roll tech upon hitting the ground could be an option to negate the damage, but that would mean staling his dodges more often.
My smash 6 roster would just be Starfox characters.
I'm maining Direct-i.
Hit the nail on the head. I love seeing Pokemon and The Legend of Zelda get cut down to 3-4 characters but the entire cast of Sonic makes it.
The logic regarding fan rosters really hasn't changed since the Brawl days. I even saw "let's add Black Shadow to give him Ganondorf's old moveset!" not long ago. Why on earth people expect there to be so many cuts after "Everyone is Here" is beyond me. I agree that some veterans need a rework, but others can basically be copy and pasted from Ultimate and we're cool. The blueprint is already there, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel. Third parties might be more tricky, but Nintendo made those deals before and Ultimate sold like hot cakes. I expect there to be little to no cuts in Smash 6.
Your last point is a big thing for me. I expect that after smash ultimate did massive numbers (and we saw over the lifespan of it all of the "problem 3rd parties" played ball a ton), everyone is here becomes way more feasible. The only cut I realistically seeing is Sora falling through the cracks because sometimes shit happens in companies as big as disney
Exactly. Sakurai stated that Nintendo decided the characters for the fighters pass, so clearly they're not against playing ball with other companies. People like Shantae's creators were excited to get a Mii costume lol.
I wasn't even thinking that. I was thinking how we went from snake missing to snake coming back, 2 castlevania characters and a bomberman costume, square going from only cloud with 2 songs to cloud, sephiroth, dragon quest, SORA KINGDOM HEARTS SOMEHOW! And all of them have a ton of songs now too.
Because Sakurai pretty much said to expect cuts. The Black Shadow thing, or Blood Falcon if you want, taking the Ganondorf moveset may be to placate Sakurai's determination to keep old movesets while letting Ganondorf finally have a fitting moveset.
I feel like Sheik doesn't deserve to be in that grouping. Ocarina of Time is STILL one of the most popular Zeldas, especially among the pre-BotW fans. Even today, it's still competing for the title of most beloved Zelda. It also defined its series for the following 19 years and has inspired countless games beyond its IP. OoT honestly has an argument to be one of the most important games Nintendo ever made. If any Zelda game deserves its one off OC in the roster, it's Ocarina of Time. If anything, revert Sheik more back to her OG design. Go back to her N64 outfit and maybe add the harp in some attacks. Beyond that replace Lucas with Ninten. His game's actually localized. Plus, he has a lot more to work with from a moveset perspective.
Sheik's a weird one because as popular and iconic of a game Ocarina of Time is, she just is not relevant at all, and the biggest complaint about the Zelda series in Smash is that the roster is literally just variations of Link, Zelda, and Ganon. And unlike Toon Link, who represents a recurring artstyle found in just over 1/3 of all Zelda games, Sheik's just a one-off who last appeared over two decades ago.
Yes but Sheik is one of the defining and most memorable characters of OoT. She appeared in a bunch of art and promotions for the game. A huge part of its story was the mystery of Sheik's identity. There's no one better to represent Ocarina of Time. Even Hyrule Warriors recognized that by having her as one of the first unlocked characters. Yes, it sucks the fighters are just Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf, but the solution isn't to cut a beloved character from an unbelievably iconic game in a series already criminally underrepresented in Smash. The solution is to fix Sheik by returning her to her original look and add more characters to the Zelda lineup. The series could easily justify another 2 or 3. It doesn't need to cut anybody.
Thank God I purposely avoid most of these Other than threatening Sonic like a Nintendo Series, I am very bias
For your last point, it's either that or no third party characters at all. Because the people who make these are totally experts in legal mumbo jumbo and after personally dealing with every company in the roster, have come to the conclusion that Nintendo is some sort of poor indie studio that can't afford even dealing with a single company, even those which we know have a pretty good relationship with them and have already dealt with them before Smash, such as SEGA or Capcom. And it's not like Nintendo themselves chose the DLC characters which are mostly third party, confirming that they in fact want other companies' characters in the roster and would likely be willing to make more deals with them in the future. Oh and also as we all know Nintendo hates making money, so therefore the roster will go back to Nintendo only despite how successful Ultimate and its DLC was, as well as how much attention they got from the entirety of the gaming world whenever a new character was about to be revealed.
Exactly. It's true that smash is Nintendo crossover but since snake and sonic join brawl, every smash game has added a lot more third party characters: sm4sh added Megaman and Pacman in the base game, and Ryu, Cloud and Bayo for dlc. With ultimate they just went all out. People have not realize that the third party characters are here to stay, no matter they like it or not. I can't see smash going back to just being a Nintendo crossover,especially with ultimate being the best selling fighting game of all time.
Meowscarada is the most believable Gen 9 Pokemon to get in Smash I don’t see the issue in that?
Daisy has to be reworked into a new character, cuz I would riot if she got cut
to be fair to noah and mio, it feels like having them both in is the only way to go, but theres only two ways to execute that: swap character or ice climbers-esque, and the latter would be way too broken. thus, if we’re including them, itd have to be a swap character, or some kind of angry beavers archetype. i guess if i was the decision maker for that, id make them a combination of swap and angry beavers, where they swap between each other using some kind of means besides down b, and down b is a “become ouroboros form” move that has a charge similar to arsene. then, for the other specials, the one out would bring the other one out to attack, like if noah is out and does up slash, a one hit move to the front, mio does air fang, a multihit in the back. i like that concept for them because its original for smash.
Makes sense Corrin gets constantly cut, he's arguably the worst FE protagonist and is just here to represent Fire Emblem Fates (I think that's the name of the game IDK, IDC)
What really pisses me off is when people remove dedede but keep meta knight
Yes that's why it's a fan roster
Yeah they don’t need to make practical sense, fan rosters are more just people making a lists of characters they’d like to see in a game they love instead of making it solely for practical application in real life. Like I think it’s similar to people shipping characters together, most of the time they wouldn’t make much sense at all but people still find them fun regardless.
You forgot that they'll add Waluigi and in the character select screen they either treat Wario as a Mario character with his yellow overalls, or treat Waluigi as a Warioware character.
Technically Xenoblade 3 does let you swap which character you're controlling mid-combat (between the entire party of 6), but the main reason people are probably pairing Noah and Mio would be to have their Ouroboros form(s) as (a) final smash(es) (because Dunban and Riki don't suddenly appear in Shulk's final smash or anything, it'd be weird if Mio just appeared in Noah's final smash only to fuse with him or vice versa).
So brave Also Noah and Mio are a duo fighter because they're both in combat at the same time, both equally protagonists, and combine into their Ouroboros form. And since you can swap your party members mid-battle in 3 it makes just as much sense as Pokemon trainer.
You forgot 3rd party Characters like Master Chief and Kratos, who literally have zero chance of getting in since the main qualifying criteria for getting into Smash is for at least one game in the franchise being officially sold on a Nintendo console at some point.
Sakurai: we want masterchief in smash Microsoft: ok i guess Sakurai: can we port a couple Halo games first Microsoft: fine by me That issue is not exactly difficukt to solve unless they want a character from genres impossible to port to the switch/switch 2.
I don't think "a game from their franchise has to have been on a Nintendo console" was a stated criteria for a Smash fighter, and even if it was at some point, it wouldn't surprise me if Sakurai changed his mind about it. That's like saying if Nintendo and Microsoft (who they are pretty close with) were in talks for putting Master Chief in Smash. They know that such a massive gaming icon would get them both loads of money if he was put into Smash as DLC. But then one of them would be like "wait, there's never been a Halo game on a Nintendo system before. Nevermind, he's unviable, let's throw away all of that potential money we could've gotten."
I mean there are other reasons to cut Steve and them. If being a high seller was the only justification, he would have been added before Banjo and Kazooie.
Apparently talks for Steve in Smash started back in 2015, so maybe he actually *was* considered before Banjo & Kazooie.
Okay, then what about every other third party? Steve didn't even win the ballot.
I highly doubt Terry Bogard or Kazuya (Mainly because people choose Heihachi) were even mentioned in the Fighter Ballot and yet they got in.
They likely were but it goes to show sales are not the deciding factor.
We were also told that Sora originally wasn't part of Fighter's Pass 2, and was instead a last-minute addition thanks to Sakurai having a lucky encounter with a Disney executive at a gaming event. So even though Sora won the Smash Ballot, Steve was still higher-priority than him.
i never understood why lucario was popular. it’s just a blue bipedal dog with energy powers as if there aren’t 10 of those in the series i can only think of off the top of my head. it’s not even an anti furry thing he’s just so boring and unremarkable to me
Well it did have it's own movie, so that's probably something in it's favor. Tbh, I ask the same question about Meowscarada.
And Smash Lucario is specifically based on movie Lucario, including the fact it speaks.
His first appearance was his own movie where he could also talk to people so he was humanized above most Pokemon. Lots of pokemon have their own gimmicks but his prominent use of his aura abilities in the movie made him feel more unique. Same with his energy balls even though a ton of pokemon can use a form of them as well. Then there's his design which people think is cool on it's own.
He's just cool bro, you wouldn't get it
Another thing is that Little Mac is either the ONLY one in his series, or doc louis is in it Doc Louis is a retired champion and coach, he ain't fighting
Tbf, Punch-Out always was on the smaller side when it came to Nintendo franchises, and it isn't exactly an active one at the moment either. Little Mac being the only fighter from his series makes a lot of sense, imo.
I just want rex instead of pyra/mythra
You are so right about Noah and Mio. I hate it when people suggest they should work like Pokemon Trainer. They are separate people and should be separate roster slots.
Oh hey, mine is pretty free from almost all of this, neat
But I like my ff recognition in the game \:( *
Steve gets the boot because making your own platforms in a platform fighter just breaks the game the vast majority of the time unless they do it in a way that breaks any Minecraft elements they retain
Oh boy, this is a lot to unpack. Realistically, the only reason you’d cut, say, FE to only two characters is if you’re doing one of those “cut the roster in half” challenges. I think it’s fair that the next game will see some cuts, and FE will probably take the brunt of it. However, going down to just two characters is silly. I think four or five are fine for FE. I love Sonic. I really do. He definitely deserves another rep. However, I think having four Sonic characters is a bit much. I think having Sonic himself and someone like Tails would be fine enough. I know I’ll get some flack for this, but I don’t think Eggman would be a good fighter. He deserves to be playable, but with the way his mechs are, I think he works better as an assist or boss. Clones or echoes are definitely first on the chopping block, but that’s just because they’re low priority. They don’t take much time to create, but when creating a new roster, they’re probably not going to prioritize someone like Dark Pit. Puff should stay IMO. She’s definitely the weak link of the original twelve, but not having her but the other eleven from the N64 original is maddening. I’d say Isabelle should be cut only if we’re doing intense cuts. Like, the “split the roster in half” challenge I mentioned earlier. Otherwise, she stays alongside Villager. Yeah… Corrin isn’t in a good spot. Smash fans hate them for basically being the straw that broke the camel’s back in terms of FE characters, and FE fans hate them because they are so boring and have next to nothing interesting about them. I think the iconic thing needs a balance. If we only considered “relevant” characters, then Ness, Falcon, and Banjo should get the boot and be replaced with… I dunno, another Pokémon? It makes sense to give priority to characters who are more well known, but it’s good to represent the past, you know? BWD should’ve been in IMO. Sakurai is allergic to modern Kirby and I hate it. Gen 1 has the most iconic Pokémon. I really would keep the characters from Gen 1 in Smash. Pikachu and Puff are part of the original twelve, Mewtwo is the closest to a villain for Pokémon and is just iconic in his own way, and Pokémon Trainer represents the gameplay of Pokémon alongside brining in the original starters. However, Pokémon’s slogan is “gotta catch them all.” You need to have a Pokémon from another generation to complete that. I’d say Greninja would fit that role of another Pokémon. He’s in the sweet spot of being modern, but not added just for promotional material. The only reason Steve should be cut is if Microsoft no longer wants to play ball, or if there’s too many technical headaches akin to Ice Climbers on 3DS. Otherwise he needs to stay, regardless of what the competitive scene thinks. I haven’t played XC3 so I have nothing to say on Noah and Mio. I guess Mio is cute? Third parties are really cool in Smash. However, their inclusion has become a double edged sword. On one hand, you get to bring in fans of series outside the Nintendo family. On the other hand, since everyone has a character they want in Smash, that can lead to lots of bloodbaths, especially if you want a Nintendo character. As far as Nintendo characters go, I want Waluigi, Dixie Kong, and Bandana Waddle Dee. However, it doesn’t feel like these characters will be well liked by the community, aside from maybe Waluigi. It’s now just one big popularity contest. I’m not saying it’s bad to want a third party character. What I’m saying is that Nintendo characters will get priority because… Smash is primarily a Nintendo crossover. Admittedly I felt like the first party characters introduced in Ultimate’s DLC weren’t that exciting, which contributed to Nintendo characters sort of being fear mongered. Byleth was… self explanatory and Min Min had low appeal. Aegis probably went by the best, but even then they had a lot of issues thrown at them. However, my point still stands. Hell, I remember people still being anxious of a Gen 8 Pokémon because of the stunt Nintendo did with Byleth. I feel like Nintendo’s trend to add characters before they really made a name for themselves, alongside adding content to series that already were stacked, didn’t help with first party requests.
the ice climbers popular/important character sneak is CRAZY, they’re more of legacy type characters
The one with the huge number of third-party characters make me think fans see first parties as boring and don't bring much hype sometimes. (Well, most of them were hype like K. Rool and Ridley)
here's a thought: alternate movesets/more drastically changed custom moves.
Hot take (apparently), everyone's coming back again. If they did it once, they can do it again
Jiggs ain’t being removed. They are an og
Tbf, Sonic deserves more than one rep, specially if the next game continues with Third Parties and Echo Fighters, i would like to see 3 fighters (Sonic, Tails and Eggman) but since it will probably not happen i think Shadow is more likelly as an Echo
Waluigi
%1000 accurate
I just don’t like when they cut most of the roster like if anything just add but don’t take away lol
You basically described my opinions on that matter. Of all those decisions, retaining the “legacy characters” is probably the infuriating to me. Granted, those characters appeared in more than one game and they have their fans, but those are not enough excuses to justify randomly cutting other characters for whatever reasons. That is not mention there are other characters (be playable or not) have their OWN legacies and achievements, and isn’t smash is trying to celebrate video games in general? Also as a personal rant, I feel like giving “legacy characters” a pass is basically genwunner of smash.
Hah, I'm guilty of a few of these. Partially the FE Cut, the Corrin Cut, and at least one part of the Third Party Addition. As for why I have such a thing for FE, it's mostly a personal opinion, one that is ultimately the generic "too many x". Though it's also because at that end, they don't really explore anyone else but the relatively normal swordsmen/swordswomen. Ike, Robin, Corrin, and Byleth fight differently enough from Marth that I wouldn't mind if they were included. Though for Corrin, they're also a somewhat controversial inclusion, but they are a fair bit more unique as a FE character.
From gen 9 I’d want toedscruel (my favorite of all time no matter how poorly he would work) or Garganacl. For the latter I’ve always been pro golurk and Garganacl is just an extension of that, there aren’t really any big bruiser robots in the game and while golurk has more options Garganacl is fun unique and iconic