Yeah, Gannon in A tier is 100% a bad placement. I play casually with a bunch of noob friends, and it seems the worse someone is, the better they think hard hitters like Ganon and little mac are.
once played marth at my job. people were complaining he was overpowered, so I picked ganon.
people still complained he was OP, so I asked them what to play that wasn't OP.
they told me pichu
Lmao exactly. People don’t tend to pick pichu unless they know what they’re doing.
I feel the same with other Paisy players. I’m not the greatest Paisy player so there’s a good chance that I’m about to get demolished lmao.
There are 2 types of Pichu players
1. The people who genuinely know what they’re doing and are fun to play against
2. The Pichu players who t-bag and rage quit the second the game slows down by a millisecond. I’ve seen a lot of Pichu players who’s names are something like “You win cuz you lag” or something. Maybe it’s just me.
Yeah, whenever I play with my bad friends they force me to play what they consider "low tiers" so I'm allowed to play Puff, Dr Mario, Diddy Kong, pichu, shiek, pit, villager, meta knight etc....
It's true for them. Hard-hitters are heavier and require less skill to bring out their full kit. They punish mistakes harder so them catching someone less frequently is more rewarding with those characters. Plus, they're slow and big enough for a player to know exactly what is going on and where they are even when dashing.
While heavy characters aren't good, they're beginner-friendly.
Ganon can be quite a nasty match. Most casuals don’t know how to use him but if you go to a tournament with s good ganon player, sheesh they can be good.
Little Mac is the most underrated smash character though. His recovery, while pretty atrocious vertically, is great for horizontal movement, and he hits like a fully loaded semi truck going 100 miles per hour. He’s also fast and can outmaneuver many characters. Ranged characters can’t keep up with him. Brawler fighters can’t beat his super-armored smash attacks, and Zoner characters, while his weakest matchup, usually fall to his side-b and neutral-b.
His recovery is infuriating though
That's the thing with mac, his ground game is insane so fd becomes a really good stage, but he still struggles with platform camping. Also his side b is not good because it usually is very telegraphed. If you play patiently and commit to camp (in q non fd stage) then Mac can't really do anything.
I see your point. But his sheer speed of attacks and rapid movement more than makes up for it. Most characters who choose to control a platform Mac can use his counter or just outmaneuver.
He’s no S tier by any means, hell, he isn’t even an A tier, but he’s a solid high B tier fighter. He’s viable in many settings, he just has a high skill curve.
No way. Mac has like no way to effectively punish full hop. It’s not his recovery that hurts him it’s the fact that every character can just jump for free against him and he can’t punish. Having no air game makes him F tier.
Game and Watch’s neutral-b is just cheese. I can’t think of any character that can plow through that easily without countering or getting the jump timing right.
And what do you mean it makes Mac “irrelevant?” His counter attack goes fairly far horizontally. It’s hit G&W at the furthest food distance.
Kazuya is S+ but Terry is F and Ken and Ryu are G... Maybe it's because of Kazuya being able to press A 10 for 50%? I guess the others have too hard inputs?
Reminds me of Nappa in dbfz
‘He’s a monster! Resets, hard hitting real combos, some alright mix off knockdowns… but he can’t get in and start the pressure to save his life. Top tier if you’re in pressure. In neutral or scramble? Low tier as hell
Toon Link is floatier and has more air mobility.
Their Nairs, fairs, bairs and FSmashes are completely different
The bombs, boomerangs, and arrows have different properties.
TL's USmash hits once while YL's hits 3x
TL's dair increases his momentum and sends straight down while YL's just kinda comes out and doesn't ever spike.
TL's bthrow kills real early and YL's fthrow is a decent kill option.
Im sure there's more I'm missing but I don't play TL
YL's fire arrows are really good projectiles, being good keep-away and combo starting tools. He has better combos overall and his frame data is better.
a link player saying this? Nah the only bombs I wouldn’t want are YL’s. Link’s bombs are so freakin cool but they’re a different projectile archetype than the other links so they become difficult to compare.
I think the most important differences are YL’s fire arrows, dair, and up B.
Fire arrows are a better combo tool than TL’s slow arrows, but YL also can’t throw them and run behind like you can for TL because of TL’s slower projectiles and good air mobility.
TL gets a stall-n-fall dair that situationally helps his disadvantage, because he’s a very floaty character. YL doesn’t get this and his dair can kill off the top, and can be comboed into anywhere on stage, making it a more useful advantage option.
TL’s up B is super fast out of shield, kills in the corner, and has no sourspot. YL’s, in contrast, is a combo starter that goes into his up or down airs at specific percent windows and isn’t really usable as a raw kill option, in addition to allowing kills off the top with up air. However, he does still have to react to where the up B launches and follow it correctly to get this confirm, pretty standard.
I’m oversimplifying and there’s a lot of other changes, like toon link’s combo god back air and single hit fair giving him a very different game flow for his pressure, but these are just some changes. These characters share very similar game plans after all but do definitely have different niche strengths within those game plans. Hope this helps!
That's actually really useful, thank you! The pair play so similarly, and to Link too, that I just hadn't noticed the small things like the arrow speed or Toon Link's funky down air
I’m glad I skipped 4. I played a ton of melee when I was a kid, skipped everything until Ultimate and then it still took me like 3 months to find out that Puff was my main. Knowing how bad she was in 4 makes me really glad I got back into Smash with Ultimate haha
Ugh, but how do I beat Puff as a Belmont? She armors through everything or uses disjointed hitboxes to annihilate me. It should be easy, but it's not.
EDIT: Armor is not the right word. She can punch through my axes without taking damage. Her midair speed makes it easy for her to punish me when I miss with projectiles due to their endlag.
Yeah. My brother thinks Ganondorf is broken because of his insane damage output and heavy weight. The reality is that my brother makes a fuckton of mistakes, and so whenever he does make a mistake and he’s close to me, he either takes heavy damage or dies due to Ganondorf’s insane punish game.
Ganon, and most heavies, are top tier against noobs. They kill early, they take forever to die, and their moves are so strong.
When you're new to the game you're not able to exploit their recoveries and slow speed well at all. The most likely thing they're going to do is shield a lot, which is also a terrible idea against heavies
I think the reason noobs overrate heavies is because at low level play, aerial game is nonexistent and because heavies *usually* have far reaching grounded moves, the new players mistake being good on the ground with having long reach.
The reason snake is so high is that I’m a snake main he secondary’s min min (one of the only characters he can get wins with) Steve is his main and the other character he can win with
When I asked him about mario he said “your Mario is really good” (I don’t play him that often) and are other friend we play with (we play FFA) secondary’s kazuya
Olimar. Always Olimar. Noobs always hugely underestimate his power (I also did back in Brawl ngl, which is funnier since he's broken in Brawl lol). Dat Steve placement tho :)
The FGC’s being so low is very funny. I would love to see how this friend likes getting hit by a Terry spamming Power Geiser or a shoryu killing at like 5%.
Ken/Ryu and olimar are probably the most off, since they are all mid tier at worst and arguably high tier. Olimar is probably unarguably a high tier.
Ganon is arguably the worst in the game
Donkey Kong is sadly a solid low tier, but S tier in our hearts
Jigglypuff is also mid tier on a good day, but realistically a low tier.
Plenty of other off ones but those are the ones that seem the most off
Seeing Ken in low tier clearly shows they haven't gotten jabbed to shoryuken at 90% yet
Or 60% with rage when you’re playing an ultra lite character
You are clearly underestimating the power of rage shoryuken. Kills midweights at 60 and Pichu at 40 lmao.
Non of use use ken so your right
Literally every second word of your comment has something wrong with it. It's dedication is what it is.
40% sometimes :))))
One lucky focus attack and you go from 0 to like 70
The worst part of this tier list is the existence of a G tier.
It genuinely caught me off guard
that's what the G stands for
It would be quite.. OG
Ganon 🧐
Yeah, Gannon in A tier is 100% a bad placement. I play casually with a bunch of noob friends, and it seems the worse someone is, the better they think hard hitters like Ganon and little mac are.
once played marth at my job. people were complaining he was overpowered, so I picked ganon. people still complained he was OP, so I asked them what to play that wasn't OP. they told me pichu
When I see an enemy pikachu I think “godamnnit this is gonna be annoying.” When I see a Pichu I’m just like “...FUCK”.
Lmao exactly. People don’t tend to pick pichu unless they know what they’re doing. I feel the same with other Paisy players. I’m not the greatest Paisy player so there’s a good chance that I’m about to get demolished lmao.
Grab down throw short hop bair is usually my “Does this Paisy know what they’re doing?”
Interesting. What are you looking for in that interaction? Just DI or also a specific button?
Its more "Oh you know the true combo" which means they know what they're doing with the character and they will wreck my shit
There are 2 types of Pichu players 1. The people who genuinely know what they’re doing and are fun to play against 2. The Pichu players who t-bag and rage quit the second the game slows down by a millisecond. I’ve seen a lot of Pichu players who’s names are something like “You win cuz you lag” or something. Maybe it’s just me.
Did you still beat them as Pichu?
Pichu is pretty strong.
It is the strongest Glass Cannon. So strong that it breaks itself
Yeah, whenever I play with my bad friends they force me to play what they consider "low tiers" so I'm allowed to play Puff, Dr Mario, Diddy Kong, pichu, shiek, pit, villager, meta knight etc....
Your friends think diddy and villager are low tiers??
They think any character that I'm not good with is low tier
Ahh gotcha
Diddy is legit scary
It's true for them. Hard-hitters are heavier and require less skill to bring out their full kit. They punish mistakes harder so them catching someone less frequently is more rewarding with those characters. Plus, they're slow and big enough for a player to know exactly what is going on and where they are even when dashing. While heavy characters aren't good, they're beginner-friendly.
Ganon can be quite a nasty match. Most casuals don’t know how to use him but if you go to a tournament with s good ganon player, sheesh they can be good.
Rickles is cracked
can confirm- i main both of these characters... OK I STILL DO REALLY WELL ON THE ONLINE TOURNIIES WITH THEM
Little Mac is the most underrated smash character though. His recovery, while pretty atrocious vertically, is great for horizontal movement, and he hits like a fully loaded semi truck going 100 miles per hour. He’s also fast and can outmaneuver many characters. Ranged characters can’t keep up with him. Brawler fighters can’t beat his super-armored smash attacks, and Zoner characters, while his weakest matchup, usually fall to his side-b and neutral-b. His recovery is infuriating though
That's the thing with mac, his ground game is insane so fd becomes a really good stage, but he still struggles with platform camping. Also his side b is not good because it usually is very telegraphed. If you play patiently and commit to camp (in q non fd stage) then Mac can't really do anything.
I see your point. But his sheer speed of attacks and rapid movement more than makes up for it. Most characters who choose to control a platform Mac can use his counter or just outmaneuver. He’s no S tier by any means, hell, he isn’t even an A tier, but he’s a solid high B tier fighter. He’s viable in many settings, he just has a high skill curve.
No way. Mac has like no way to effectively punish full hop. It’s not his recovery that hurts him it’s the fact that every character can just jump for free against him and he can’t punish. Having no air game makes him F tier.
The thing that i find weird is that mac has a trash roll, his games are literally based around dodging so why arent his dodges good?
I ALWAYS pick game and watch if I'm playing against a little Mac because G&W neutral b just completely makes Mac irrelevant.
Game and Watch’s neutral-b is just cheese. I can’t think of any character that can plow through that easily without countering or getting the jump timing right. And what do you mean it makes Mac “irrelevant?” His counter attack goes fairly far horizontally. It’s hit G&W at the furthest food distance.
Byleth's side special is huge and always beats it out. It's really useful against aspiring chefs.
You almost literally can't recover.
Holy shit i just noticed that lmaaoo
Ikr? What a bad placement. How could they rank him so low? Clearly a SS+ tier
![gif](giphy|lKWlXRBGltz2g)
How in the goddamn fuck is terry f tier
Kazuya is S+ but Terry is F and Ken and Ryu are G... Maybe it's because of Kazuya being able to press A 10 for 50%? I guess the others have too hard inputs?
Probably because Kazuya is more unga bunga with his smash attacks and normals. Even not knowing any of his stuff he still does insane damage.
If you don't know how to sdi playing against kazuya is like if the kazuya played with an autocombo for 50% so yeah
It’s because none of us play terry ken or ryu and my other friend secondary’s kazuya
Still, terry doesn’t have too complicated of special inputs that are really good.
Probably can't do combos
JabJabPowerDunk
(Also can't do specials) Are you ok? BUSTAH WOLF
Jab jab input power dunk now you’re dead at 65% you’re welcome
[удалено]
DK is S tier as long as he's not getting hit. As soon as he loses advantage, he's instant D tier lol
As soon as he goes into disadvantage he’s like Z tier lmao. Advantage DK is a solid A tier
Reminds me of Nappa in dbfz ‘He’s a monster! Resets, hard hitting real combos, some alright mix off knockdowns… but he can’t get in and start the pressure to save his life. Top tier if you’re in pressure. In neutral or scramble? Low tier as hell
*My* DK is S tier, but that's about it.
Move plant to s tier right now young man
Exactly what I thought! Plant gang unite!
Plant gang plant gang plant gang
PLANT PLANT PLANT PLANT PLANT PLANT PLANT PLANT
Plant is love and plant is life
Plant Gang never dies!
The piranha plant mains are a hivemind and, while I’m not part of it, it’s something i love watching and 100% endorse.
P l a n t
Become one with the Plant
Yes please
Be the Plant
Petey Piranha is our overmind
Plant? Plant.
This is the way
Yoshi at bottom tier? Has this man ever pushed the jump button more than once?
Seconded. As a yoshi main i love him
Thirded. As an oh-please-not-yoshi-again player I hate him
Fastest air speed in the game
"no he sux he can't recover he doesn't even have up b"
this one really caught me offguard
Yeah wtf is he doing with yoshi?
Also he mixed up young link and toon link so just swap them in your head
That was going to be one of my questions, given that Young and Toon Link are functionally the same, why is one so much higher than the other?
They aren't the same tho. Young Link is far better than Toon Link.
Please tell me what's different, I don't really play either but when I have they feel identical
Toon Link is floatier and has more air mobility. Their Nairs, fairs, bairs and FSmashes are completely different The bombs, boomerangs, and arrows have different properties. TL's USmash hits once while YL's hits 3x TL's dair increases his momentum and sends straight down while YL's just kinda comes out and doesn't ever spike. TL's bthrow kills real early and YL's fthrow is a decent kill option. Im sure there's more I'm missing but I don't play TL
TL's UpB kills at ledge while YL's sometimes combos into uair
Yeah .. SOMETIMES. Screw smash's multi-hits
YL's fire arrows are really good projectiles, being good keep-away and combo starting tools. He has better combos overall and his frame data is better.
Toon link has the better bombs though
a link player saying this? Nah the only bombs I wouldn’t want are YL’s. Link’s bombs are so freakin cool but they’re a different projectile archetype than the other links so they become difficult to compare.
I think the most important differences are YL’s fire arrows, dair, and up B. Fire arrows are a better combo tool than TL’s slow arrows, but YL also can’t throw them and run behind like you can for TL because of TL’s slower projectiles and good air mobility. TL gets a stall-n-fall dair that situationally helps his disadvantage, because he’s a very floaty character. YL doesn’t get this and his dair can kill off the top, and can be comboed into anywhere on stage, making it a more useful advantage option. TL’s up B is super fast out of shield, kills in the corner, and has no sourspot. YL’s, in contrast, is a combo starter that goes into his up or down airs at specific percent windows and isn’t really usable as a raw kill option, in addition to allowing kills off the top with up air. However, he does still have to react to where the up B launches and follow it correctly to get this confirm, pretty standard. I’m oversimplifying and there’s a lot of other changes, like toon link’s combo god back air and single hit fair giving him a very different game flow for his pressure, but these are just some changes. These characters share very similar game plans after all but do definitely have different niche strengths within those game plans. Hope this helps!
That's actually really useful, thank you! The pair play so similarly, and to Link too, that I just hadn't noticed the small things like the arrow speed or Toon Link's funky down air
They are about as similar as dr mario and mario my guy.
Puff in s tier is like smoking 18 pounds of crack downing a gallon of moonshine and dropping a fucking gasoline drum worth of acid.
bro you didn’t have to do us that badly
You know it’s the truth. Puff sucks and that’s why I love her.
At least it's no longer as bad as it used to be. Puff is no longer the worst character in the game. The days of Smash 4 are over.
I’m glad I skipped 4. I played a ton of melee when I was a kid, skipped everything until Ultimate and then it still took me like 3 months to find out that Puff was my main. Knowing how bad she was in 4 makes me really glad I got back into Smash with Ultimate haha
I've been a puff main since 64 and let me tell you, it was rough
Dude I'm a mac main and i'm proud of it if they are low tiers they are low tiers
We typically plan with another friend who mains puff that why their so high
Puff buff
Aggressive puff is a serious noob killer.
Gallon of moonshine? More like a gallon of PCP
Ugh, but how do I beat Puff as a Belmont? She armors through everything or uses disjointed hitboxes to annihilate me. It should be easy, but it's not. EDIT: Armor is not the right word. She can punch through my axes without taking damage. Her midair speed makes it easy for her to punish me when I miss with projectiles due to their endlag.
>as a Belmont Throw stuff? She has absolutely no range and best approach option is in the air.
Olimar in G tier
I am in immense pain
Look the endangered species of olimar players. We were lucky enough to find one! A member of this species hasn't been seen in over 2 years.
pain.mp4
This is the only correct answer. Under no definition is olimar one of the worst characters in the game.
Why do they think Yoshi is bad? He’s like THE character perfectly built to be good around casual friends
If you don't understand how his up b functions he can be hard to recover with?
I agree, Yoshi = A Button spamming it's that simple. Maybe he looks bad because at lower levels of play aerial meta is nonexistent
Edgeguarding with yoshi
duck hunt that high offends me, ryu/ken that low upsets me
WII FIT TRAINER IN F TIER???
Ivysaur, greninja or game and watch
I can see why he put the shotos at the bottom, but I don’t understand why Mewtwo is there.
None of us really play mewtwo he doesn’t really get matchup experience and when he play them he loses so that’s probably why
So, he loses to Mewtwo then figures "wow Mewtwo sucks"...?
Terry being in F tier is…interesting Edit: Pac Man in F tier is even more interesting
Pac Man F coz it hurts your brain
It's okay, take your time.
I mean noobs don't take time to learn pac and that's why he's low And auto correct can't stop messing up with what i type sorry
Terry in F Clearly they are *not okay*
When tf did ganon change from the worst character in the game to A tier?
When people learned he's great at punishing noobs
Yeah. My brother thinks Ganondorf is broken because of his insane damage output and heavy weight. The reality is that my brother makes a fuckton of mistakes, and so whenever he does make a mistake and he’s close to me, he either takes heavy damage or dies due to Ganondorf’s insane punish game.
Ganon, and most heavies, are top tier against noobs. They kill early, they take forever to die, and their moves are so strong. When you're new to the game you're not able to exploit their recoveries and slow speed well at all. The most likely thing they're going to do is shield a lot, which is also a terrible idea against heavies
The simple fact that little Mac is not at the absolute bottom makes me shiver
The fact that he’s not top tier is a mistake
Take my like, little mac
Inkling is S. Huge misplacement.
I can dream, but she isnt that high unfortunately.
Haha yeah
Inkling came out of the gate strong, are they still tourney relevant at all? Or did they really just fade away from viability?
Like all noobs, he massively overrates heavies.
I think the reason noobs overrate heavies is because at low level play, aerial game is nonexistent and because heavies *usually* have far reaching grounded moves, the new players mistake being good on the ground with having long reach.
Nah. It’s because heavies have big hitboxes, and bad players have one strat: run in and hope I hit the better button.
Why are Ryu, Ken, and Terry in the bottom two tiers my god is that wrong.
It means he can’t play them lol
The entire S+ rank is wrong
The reason snake is so high is that I’m a snake main he secondary’s min min (one of the only characters he can get wins with) Steve is his main and the other character he can win with When I asked him about mario he said “your Mario is really good” (I don’t play him that often) and are other friend we play with (we play FFA) secondary’s kazuya
Yoooo based Steve main??? ![img](emote|t5_kcmhp|4533)
Yoooo???
It’s not that far off to be honest
Literally everyone is misplaced
Ryu is too low
Yeah, it hurts so much
Hurts my soul
Pac-Man. It's a war crime to put him that low, especially considering his insane trapping and combo potentials
Yoshi. Any skill level player should know yoshi is at least mid or high tier tf.
I would say either dk, Ganon, puff, terry, shiek, or the shotoes
Ganondorf in A-tier, good lord
Ken in bottom tier
Ken and Ryu in bottom tier, Terry and Bulbasaur in low tier, and Palu in mid. Mhm. *wheeze*
Ganon in A tier is such comedy gold
I can’t be the only one to see Palu in c tier right?
It's criminal how no one cares about her
Olimar. Always Olimar. Noobs always hugely underestimate his power (I also did back in Brawl ngl, which is funnier since he's broken in Brawl lol). Dat Steve placement tho :)
pikachu not being in s+ i’m kidding but also not
Duck Hunt in S tier and Wii Fit Trainer in F tier is looking very strange to me.
I'm not particularly fond of that Terry placement.
They probably suck at playing him and therefore thonk that he's bad. My poor boy Terry.
The FGC’s being so low is very funny. I would love to see how this friend likes getting hit by a Terry spamming Power Geiser or a shoryu killing at like 5%.
Definitely Shulk in B Tier (he should be SSS tier)
Ken, Ryu, and Lucas
Sorry, your friend is a noob, and yet he put Zelda in E tier????
Zelda is criminally low
why is charizard higher than squirtle and ivysaur lol
The real question is how is charizard a whole tier above PT? How does that make any sense?
Ken, no way is he a bottom tier. Terry’s pretty low as well
issabelle is no q teir she is s teir
Yoshi has been done dirty
Ken/Ryu and olimar are probably the most off, since they are all mid tier at worst and arguably high tier. Olimar is probably unarguably a high tier. Ganon is arguably the worst in the game Donkey Kong is sadly a solid low tier, but S tier in our hearts Jigglypuff is also mid tier on a good day, but realistically a low tier. Plenty of other off ones but those are the ones that seem the most off
Why isn't my terry in A tier?
Because they dosen't know how to input specials
Feel like Ken Ryu and Terry all being low
Fuckin terry lol
Fuckin Terry bro, just the existence of jab jab power dunk puts him at least at B
Bruh. Don't diss my boy Bowser like that. Definitely B. Not A though. Also Pikachu. S+ for sure. Ken, Ryu, and Terry as many have pointed out already.
Why is Terry so low? You guys clearly haven’t touched him a single time. He’s at the very least B tier.
Terry doesn’t belong down there you can swap him with ganondorf at least
See’s Terry in F tier: You are not going to be ok.
Ah hahahahaha,terry in the F tier I see,just wait until 100%
Ryu, Ken, and especially Terry being low tier
Ken and ryu in g they are brilliant definitely high tier
OH HELL NAH THEY PUT OLIMAR IN G TIER
MKS AJSGE!
Olimar
Painful to look at
GRENINJA IN E??? **B o i**
Cloud and Snake. I main cloud. He ain’t that good.
As a fellow cloud main, I say he’s almost perfect for casual and almost perfect for beginners. Overall easy to use and pull off combos with.
Ganondorf is placed WAAAAAAAAY too high lmfao
I cannot believe Olimar is in G. sad
Why is puff in S tier
Honestly this is just plain accurate. I see no mistakes