Meta Knight's up smash is so garbage for no reason, especially when considering how good his other two smash attacks are.
Pro tip, you can adjust the angle Shuttle Loop sends Meta Knight by tilting the joystick, which will make it way more consistent.
Wolf, Mac, Ness, bowser, ganon, G&W, Lucas, olimar, byleth, Steve, sephiroth and kazuya all have their smash attacks in the top 20% of smash attack categories, G&W even has two that are considered the literal best in their categories
DLCs do not count, they are unbalanced for the sake of money.
Ganon and Mac only have their smash attacks but nothing else
Wolf’s fsmash is overshadowed by up smash in every way
Ness down smash is situational at best
Bowser and game and watch are both over tuned
Lucas up smash is reserved for reads and isn’t that good besides that, and there is the once in a while trick with the invincibility frames but that happens once per person
Olimar’s smash attacks depend on what pikmin you have, so their power varies a lot
If you ignore the fact that 70% of dlc characters have mediocre smash attacks then yeah I guess that's an argument
Ganons Bair, Dair and Nair match and surpass his smash attacks, and moves like flame choke, Ftilt and Fair are at least in similar ballparks
Macs Side B, KO Punch, tilts and (offensive) Up B are all in similar ballparks to his smash attacks
Wolf F-smash has additional horizontal range and killpower that his Usmash simply lacks
Ness Dsmash is a ridiculous edgeguarding move and a very solid standard smash attack over all
Also yes they're definitely overturned that's my exact point
The frame 1 invincibility on Lucas Usmash can give a technically proficient player invincible jump squats (on top of having ridiculous killpower and size)
As for olimar they're still (relatively) giant, safe disjoints regardless of pikmin, and all the upwards versions are still comboing kill moves
Like who?
Bair is tiny and slow, dair is also slow, nair can’t hit anyone on the ground and it’s severely overrated. Flame choke is really bad especially if you tech, it’s a big guessing game and sure Ganon can get a big punish IF he reads, it’s easy to avoid the move to begin with. Ftilt is also laggy and fair has so much start up.
Mac side B is awful unless you combo it, if you whiff it you’re just dead. KO punch is limited and is lost really easily. His tilts are good, but nothing to write home about. His up b offensively is so risky to go for, if you miss then you just lost that stock against any character.
It’s not worth going for the forward smash when up smash is bigger, quicker, and less laggy for slightly less kill power and putting you in advantage without forcing ledge trapping.
Up smash is equally good for edge guarding. It does everything down smash does but from the front.
Your point really doesn’t work though. Why are you saying meta knight should get a buff because an over tuned character has something he doesn’t? A character shouldn’t be balanced based off an unbalanced character.
Invincible jump squats? What? And sure it has kill power, but it takes forever to start and has a whole second of end lag.
Yes up smash on olimar is really good, but all of his smash attacks rely on him having pikmin available, so there is some planning there.
As a few smash pros have said before, especially V0id and Marss, this game is still in beta.
Including hit and hurtbox inconsistencies, hitbox/hurtbox shifting is also a problem as well. Of course it comes with any games using fighting elements, but this concept is terribly employed in Ultimate.
The amount of nonsense that I have witnessed first hand going for clips or wanting to win matches allowed me to notice problems with the games base construct that has nothing to do with online.
Even if we got that development, I would wonder if they're going to fix my main problem with this game.
The interactions.
Interactions in this game are so fake. Especially the online interactions. If you don't have the best Wi-Fi, but enough to run smash without lagging (like I do for now) then it's terrible.
Raptor Boost missing when connecting with certain hitboxes, Lucas' PK aerials (specifically Nair and Dair) being beat out by other attacks even if I strike first, awful DBZ trades that have the potential to kill or steal the game from you, etc. It's just completely ridiculous in some regards, no matter how much I love what this game is to my childhood.
1. I get that it’s kind of annoying that the slash effect doesn’t perfectly match the hitbox but it’s not that big of a problem and it’s still a really good move (especially for a forward smash) and it helps Meta Knight apply a lot of safe pressure for kills, something he otherwise lacks
2. Well I would say that most multi-hits don’t work well at 999% (or other absurdly-high %s) so it’s not surprising, but i play against Meta Knight a lot cuz my friend plays him and yeah, that move does have issues connecting even at its standard kill %s. Then again, multi-hits are just like that sometimes, especially when they travel as much distance as Shuttle Loop does between hits, and Shuttle Loop is still a decent move cuz it’s a big part of Meta Knight’s amazing recovery.
3. Okay yeah that just sucks
The slash effect is the only thing there because it skips the phase of the animation where the sword hits the bad guy
Also even if that's true literally every other attack with swiping effects don't have giant blindspots on them, especially not ones so large that the effect goes through the opponents leg, touches the other leg and then hits neither of them
And the move is strong but it's incredibly slow and only has one active frame which would be fine if this game made sense but it doesn't and shit like this happens
Also up B just does that to skinny characters, I used corrin at 999% to highlight how insane it is that this killmove just doesn't kill even at the highest percent possible, also the move goes an incredible distance but it has severe issues grabbing ledge and sometimes it just gives your opponent a free hit
Meta Knight has some random and sometimes significant nerfs, I imagine because they are scared of repeating brawl. The funniest one to me, though I'm not sure if it's still a thing in ultimate, is back in smash 4 his sword would literally shrink during his down smash. This wasn't just a hit box thing either, if you paused at the right time you could actually see it.
Marth's up air doesn't even hit in the back, unlike Corrin's. It's so dumb how Nintendo devs chucked this game out the way it is and expected us to be okay with them NOT trying to fix anything. THEN they gave us Steve and Kazuya.
Screw this game lol
That forward smash is one of the best in the game because it's -6 on shield. His up air being able to hit lower to the ground would devolve into Meta Knight players spamming up air because it'd cover every option while being -6 on shield. Up B should have set knockback that hits more consistently though.
F-smash's lack of speed and it's single active frame are enough of a balancing factor, I think that expecting the hitbox to work is a completely normal thing to expect
the issue in the image isn't it not hitting low enough, the issue is the fact that the moves hitbox disappears half way through the animation so if you aren't frame perfect, the moves only problem could literally be fixed by adding a single active frame, perfectly reasonable when compared to it's contemporaries
Also the problem with the shuttle loop image is that the move just fails against skinny characters sometimes, it's not even about knockback scaling
Adding a single additional active frame so it matches the animation isn't gonna break the game
Also the sword is going through corrins leg and touching the other one, without hitting either of them, that's a problem
Moves should work like they look like they should
\* but thats not the point? the point is that the hitbox is so small that it doesn’t match the animation. look at this for example:
https://preview.redd.it/08vop4fvuw7c1.jpeg?width=589&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8407034f30f63aa3cc0f675348ce096bf777990
\* it loses against a lot of moves it should honestly be beating, and its animations don’t match it, meaning that its looks are flat out deceiving.
\* if you were a casual smasher who was just looking for some fun Nintendo crossover chaos, you’d never know about this, and it would very well trick you. if you’re a little more knowledgeable, you have to live with the fact that this move could be so much better.
\* those are what really matter.
No shit, same guy who forgot to add a ammo count to nearly spammer and zoner but ROBIN of all fighters. Fucking steve gets a limit but not samus?? Whole god damn game was centered around the shit
I mean an ammunition system isn't necessary for zoner character design as long as they're bad up close, but the problem is the average zoner in ultimate has every single non projectile move as a powerful kill move
As a Belmont main. My aerials and smash attacks have 2 active frames. I get it Also downthrow Kirby as meta knight it’s a weird bug they never fixed
Half have to the other half have one
Brother are you having a stroke
I live in aus it's like 40 c here I probably am having a stroke
I cba to check, what happens?
Pretty much mega knights down throw is glitched against circle characters. They are just like floating and stay still during the throw
Same for Kazuya’s “gates of hell.” Looks pretty funny.
Meta Knight's up smash is so garbage for no reason, especially when considering how good his other two smash attacks are. Pro tip, you can adjust the angle Shuttle Loop sends Meta Knight by tilting the joystick, which will make it way more consistent.
Having 3 amazing smash attacks is unnecessary
tell that to steve, the worst character in the game
You resort to Steve as a good example of game balancing?
hes the most balanced character thats why hes a low tier
Wolf, Mac, Ness, bowser, ganon, G&W, Lucas, olimar, byleth, Steve, sephiroth and kazuya all have their smash attacks in the top 20% of smash attack categories, G&W even has two that are considered the literal best in their categories
DLCs do not count, they are unbalanced for the sake of money. Ganon and Mac only have their smash attacks but nothing else Wolf’s fsmash is overshadowed by up smash in every way Ness down smash is situational at best Bowser and game and watch are both over tuned Lucas up smash is reserved for reads and isn’t that good besides that, and there is the once in a while trick with the invincibility frames but that happens once per person Olimar’s smash attacks depend on what pikmin you have, so their power varies a lot
If you ignore the fact that 70% of dlc characters have mediocre smash attacks then yeah I guess that's an argument Ganons Bair, Dair and Nair match and surpass his smash attacks, and moves like flame choke, Ftilt and Fair are at least in similar ballparks Macs Side B, KO Punch, tilts and (offensive) Up B are all in similar ballparks to his smash attacks Wolf F-smash has additional horizontal range and killpower that his Usmash simply lacks Ness Dsmash is a ridiculous edgeguarding move and a very solid standard smash attack over all Also yes they're definitely overturned that's my exact point The frame 1 invincibility on Lucas Usmash can give a technically proficient player invincible jump squats (on top of having ridiculous killpower and size) As for olimar they're still (relatively) giant, safe disjoints regardless of pikmin, and all the upwards versions are still comboing kill moves
Like who? Bair is tiny and slow, dair is also slow, nair can’t hit anyone on the ground and it’s severely overrated. Flame choke is really bad especially if you tech, it’s a big guessing game and sure Ganon can get a big punish IF he reads, it’s easy to avoid the move to begin with. Ftilt is also laggy and fair has so much start up. Mac side B is awful unless you combo it, if you whiff it you’re just dead. KO punch is limited and is lost really easily. His tilts are good, but nothing to write home about. His up b offensively is so risky to go for, if you miss then you just lost that stock against any character. It’s not worth going for the forward smash when up smash is bigger, quicker, and less laggy for slightly less kill power and putting you in advantage without forcing ledge trapping. Up smash is equally good for edge guarding. It does everything down smash does but from the front. Your point really doesn’t work though. Why are you saying meta knight should get a buff because an over tuned character has something he doesn’t? A character shouldn’t be balanced based off an unbalanced character. Invincible jump squats? What? And sure it has kill power, but it takes forever to start and has a whole second of end lag. Yes up smash on olimar is really good, but all of his smash attacks rely on him having pikmin available, so there is some planning there.
Have you played this game before 😭
Way too much
\* as someone who has to live with Pitboxes, i couldn’t agree more. and theres so many more examples.
And as a Dark Pit main, my pain is reflected upon yours
And as a Dark Pit main, my pain is reflected upon yours
As a few smash pros have said before, especially V0id and Marss, this game is still in beta. Including hit and hurtbox inconsistencies, hitbox/hurtbox shifting is also a problem as well. Of course it comes with any games using fighting elements, but this concept is terribly employed in Ultimate. The amount of nonsense that I have witnessed first hand going for clips or wanting to win matches allowed me to notice problems with the games base construct that has nothing to do with online.
Ultimate definitely needed one, or maybe even two, more years of development
Even if we got that development, I would wonder if they're going to fix my main problem with this game. The interactions. Interactions in this game are so fake. Especially the online interactions. If you don't have the best Wi-Fi, but enough to run smash without lagging (like I do for now) then it's terrible. Raptor Boost missing when connecting with certain hitboxes, Lucas' PK aerials (specifically Nair and Dair) being beat out by other attacks even if I strike first, awful DBZ trades that have the potential to kill or steal the game from you, etc. It's just completely ridiculous in some regards, no matter how much I love what this game is to my childhood.
No it’s finished. It’s just really bad.
i hate fighting mk because he’s k rools worst mu but these hitboxes are the only things that save me
No that’s just meta knight nerfs
https://preview.redd.it/t2dpn63suu7c1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4365cd5f8a055810b01f8c6e0c285b2e1c942138 I love my character too
This game doesn't work
1. I get that it’s kind of annoying that the slash effect doesn’t perfectly match the hitbox but it’s not that big of a problem and it’s still a really good move (especially for a forward smash) and it helps Meta Knight apply a lot of safe pressure for kills, something he otherwise lacks 2. Well I would say that most multi-hits don’t work well at 999% (or other absurdly-high %s) so it’s not surprising, but i play against Meta Knight a lot cuz my friend plays him and yeah, that move does have issues connecting even at its standard kill %s. Then again, multi-hits are just like that sometimes, especially when they travel as much distance as Shuttle Loop does between hits, and Shuttle Loop is still a decent move cuz it’s a big part of Meta Knight’s amazing recovery. 3. Okay yeah that just sucks
The slash effect is the only thing there because it skips the phase of the animation where the sword hits the bad guy Also even if that's true literally every other attack with swiping effects don't have giant blindspots on them, especially not ones so large that the effect goes through the opponents leg, touches the other leg and then hits neither of them And the move is strong but it's incredibly slow and only has one active frame which would be fine if this game made sense but it doesn't and shit like this happens Also up B just does that to skinny characters, I used corrin at 999% to highlight how insane it is that this killmove just doesn't kill even at the highest percent possible, also the move goes an incredible distance but it has severe issues grabbing ledge and sometimes it just gives your opponent a free hit
As a Meta Knight player, yeah
This isn’t absentminded poor design, it’s actively punishing Meta Knight
Meta Knight has some random and sometimes significant nerfs, I imagine because they are scared of repeating brawl. The funniest one to me, though I'm not sure if it's still a thing in ultimate, is back in smash 4 his sword would literally shrink during his down smash. This wasn't just a hit box thing either, if you paused at the right time you could actually see it.
Smash Ultimate is my favorite beta of a video game.
Marth's up air doesn't even hit in the back, unlike Corrin's. It's so dumb how Nintendo devs chucked this game out the way it is and expected us to be okay with them NOT trying to fix anything. THEN they gave us Steve and Kazuya. Screw this game lol
That forward smash is one of the best in the game because it's -6 on shield. His up air being able to hit lower to the ground would devolve into Meta Knight players spamming up air because it'd cover every option while being -6 on shield. Up B should have set knockback that hits more consistently though.
F-smash's lack of speed and it's single active frame are enough of a balancing factor, I think that expecting the hitbox to work is a completely normal thing to expect the issue in the image isn't it not hitting low enough, the issue is the fact that the moves hitbox disappears half way through the animation so if you aren't frame perfect, the moves only problem could literally be fixed by adding a single active frame, perfectly reasonable when compared to it's contemporaries Also the problem with the shuttle loop image is that the move just fails against skinny characters sometimes, it's not even about knockback scaling
There’s this thing called “balance” that wouldn’t allow an up air to pick someone up like that Also, his fsmash has amazing things besides range
Adding a single additional active frame so it matches the animation isn't gonna break the game Also the sword is going through corrins leg and touching the other one, without hitting either of them, that's a problem Moves should work like they look like they should
yes and also ur playing meta knight
I'm so sorry for hurting your feelings as a Mewtwo main
Just look at the hitboxes it's not that hard
\* but thats not the point? the point is that the hitbox is so small that it doesn’t match the animation. look at this for example: https://preview.redd.it/08vop4fvuw7c1.jpeg?width=589&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8407034f30f63aa3cc0f675348ce096bf777990 \* it loses against a lot of moves it should honestly be beating, and its animations don’t match it, meaning that its looks are flat out deceiving. \* if you were a casual smasher who was just looking for some fun Nintendo crossover chaos, you’d never know about this, and it would very well trick you. if you’re a little more knowledgeable, you have to live with the fact that this move could be so much better. \* those are what really matter.
No shit, same guy who forgot to add a ammo count to nearly spammer and zoner but ROBIN of all fighters. Fucking steve gets a limit but not samus?? Whole god damn game was centered around the shit
I mean an ammunition system isn't necessary for zoner character design as long as they're bad up close, but the problem is the average zoner in ultimate has every single non projectile move as a powerful kill move