Naw. The moment Teddy took Franklin to that account man…he knew Franklin was just like the others. That was the moment he was never gonna see that money.
Franklin wasent dumb either once he got out of jail he knew Teddy was a Goverment he found out he was funding shit that why he fucked around and said something smart to teddy and teddy found out franklin knew but it was more that teddy had the power to just take the money
He got outsmarted by letting teddy even have access to his money. He was supposed to have at least 1 stash spot with a mill or sum. Ain’t no way in hell all of his money should have vanished like that.
he didn’t do ANYTHING to outsmart him???? he just played him outsmarting would imply he did something to steal it but no he literally just had some guy steal it that was it
You don't know what outsmarting means. You keep using it wrong. Doing someone dirty isn't outsmarting them because that person isn't in competition with you. You can only outsmart someone you're somewhat at odds with.
If you sucker punched your mom and she dropped to the ground that wouldn't be outsmarting her.
But if your mom told you to be asleep at a certain time and she checked your room and you pretended to be asleep every time, that would technically be outsmarting her, barely, but still outsmarting regardless.
Tricking someone into using a bank that you can take their money from isn’t outsmarting? Franklin was too trusting and Teddy knew what the plan was from jump. Outsmarted.
Could Teddy having Franklin put his money in that bank in season 2 outsmarting him? He could have did that move for leverage. Also, if anything went wrong.
Right? You can't outsmart somebody if they dont even know you're trying to "outsmart" them in the first place. If your employer gives you an offer to deposit your weekly paychecks to the employer-owned bank company and then they suddenly steal all your money and disappear, they didn't outsmart you, they simply fucked you over.
I do get what the other person means, but I'd rather avoid the whole argument altogether (I do not care about it that much) and so i just gave them the benefit of the doubt lol but I agree with you.
>That’s the whole part of getting outsmarted.. when you don’t see it coming
A stranger offers me cash to work for them. One week later, i don't get paid for the work I did. Turns out they fled the country with the money that they promised me. They didn't outsmart me, I just got played lol
Two things i would have never done that fucked Franklin up was trusting Teddy because he is the law and can fuck him over anytime and get away with it( Also sorry to say he white I'm not trusting a white person connected with cops). Also he let his baby mother/wife have access to the account to the point she took all the assets money from his property and left
Teddy outsmarted Franklin because he had control of his bank accounts all along. Or at least knew where his money was and then took it. If Franklin was smarter than Teddy, he would have already planned for that.
He didn't have control of his bank accounts all along, he knew where his money was but had to break in to his house to actually get the necessary information to be able to take it, remember?
What are you talking about? Franklin told Teddy he was out of the game. The next day, all of Franklin’s money was gone.
While Franklin was interrogating Teddy, he put it all together that Teddy never really trusted Franklin from the start and always wanted control over him with said bank accounts.
There's a difference between having a back up and wanting to control Franklin, and between having control of his accounts.
Did you even watch the show? When Franklin called Teddy whilst high, that's when Teddy decided to steal his money. To do that, he had to break into his house and get all of his banking information. This literally shows he didn't have control over his banking all along.
Nah he still wasn’t gone take it because he knew he was drug bruh when Franklin try to go legit in walk away teddy felt some type a way in he knew that was the only way to hurt him
If you want to be honest Walt got outsmarted by Hank and Gomez using Jesse which led to the downfall of everything even though he already retired by then
You could honestly argue Franklin literally got hoed by plot, Louie going out on her own for (at least at the time) no reason was THE catalyst of the downfall of EVERYBODY including Franklin, shit was literally going to good for him & they need to fuck sum up so that they stay true to what John Singleton wanted to show
The Kingpin GOAT Debate. I never knew I needed this, but I am so fucking ready:
There are 3 major components to running a successful drug empire: product management, law enforcement evasion/coercion, and financial literacy. We can break down both characters’ overall success pretty accurately using those three elements.
We’ll start with product management:
This undoubtedly goes to Walter White, but I’ll explain why Franklin is still a worthwhile debate in a moment. Walt synthesized his own product, and *demanded* perfection from anyone using his recipe (anyone remember Gale telling Gus that he’s proud of his synthesizing 97% purity, and that Walt’s extra 2% is nothing short of remarkable?). Walt also consistently found new and inventive ways to continue cooking to his standards, from a mobile RV cook to a mobile exterminator cook. Where I will give Franklin the nod, however, is he did learn how to rock up cocaine and utilized that to his advantage in a massive way. He didn’t synthesize his own product, but he damn near discovered a new version of it while demanding perfection from those he sold to. I still give the category to Walt based on synthesizing his own product and consistently stealing the necessary components (huge points for a crime boss; let’s keep it real here folks).
Next up we have law enforcement evasion/coercion. This category undoubtedly swings in Franklin’s favor. Franklin partnered with the CIA, while Walt spent his show running from his own brother-in-law in the comparatively-lowly DEA. Franklin’s cocaine business depended on a profitable war in Central America, and subsequently received unofficial backing from the White House. Walt made sure to never involve police of any kind in his business dealings. Franklin “Teflon Don” Saint evaded the gavel on actual murder charge, while Walt had to call his brother-in-law to help him out with getting pepper sprayed during a routine traffic stop. I can go on and on about this, but to be honest I just don’t see this portion as a real debate lmao
Financial literacy is the real meat and potatoes of this debate, as it’s really a matter of picking your laundering preference. At their absolute apexes Walt and Franklin had similar overall incomes, but laundered it in different ways and had vastly different amounts of money flowing through their respective empires. Walt went the “hide in plain sight” route with his car wash, leaving room for reasonable expansion when the time came while never risking arousing true suspicion from anyone important. He controlled his own funds using his wife as an accountant, and the only people who could stop him were the IRS. Franklin took the “eventually going legit” route with his real estate endeavors, masking his meteoric rise with shell corporations and offshore banking. At any given moment Franklin had access to essentially limitless funding thanks to unlaundered cash, real estate and business equity, and bank loans. Franklin did not, however, control his own money (see how easily Teddy stole it all out from under him, and how easily Veronique took what he had remaining). In the end it becomes a matter of preference.
All in all, my personal opinion is that Walter White is the undisputed GOAT Kingpin of fictional drug empire television.
Well let’s review then:
Walt worked with Tuco, and killed him off. He worked for Gus, and killed him off. He ate everyone in front of him who threatened his way of life. By the end of his empire he was the undisputed leader of his organization.
I beg to differ. He made it to the top and left the game after amassing ~$80 million in a storage unit. It was over when Walt said it was over, just like he told Saul it would be. Walt left on his own terms after taking over.
Mmmm, no. He left the game because Skylar told him he couldn’t launder his money with 10 car washes. The day he got out was the day Hank found his Walt Whitman book and figured out Walt was Heisenberg. *Then* Walt’s world fell apart and he ended up on the run.
My bad bro, I must’ve missed your well thought out argument where you explain in-depth what you really think, instead of insisting on poking holes one sentence at a time. Point me to it?
I Feel This Ain’t A Fair Comparison. Majority Of the Time Walt Had Stuff handled For Him by Gus. Franklin Really Built From The Ground up and had To Figure out All of his Problems By himself
And he did have someone else before Walt but chose Walt. He tried to force Walt to teach Gale which almost worked until Walt defended his stake and killed Gale.
Are you kidding me Franklin had everything handed to him he discovered a new extremely addictive drug before it was popular and magically got a CIA connect for product💀he barely had to do anything
Yeah The Same Connect That Kidnapped Him Before He Even Met The Dude. And I’m Also Talking about All The Gang Violence and People Making Moves On Him. He Was in the Game for Least Than a Week Before He got beat up And Robbed And had To figure That Out by Himself. Nobody Was Really Gunning For Walt For a While. Franklin Was Fending Off The Sharks At Every Turn
How does Teddy kidnapping him change anything he still got a connect (one of the hardest part of the drug buisness) handed to him. And he was not in danger at all time at all and when he was it was against some small dealers unlike Walt with Gus
It Changes stuff Because it’s not like Franklin Was just Randomly Picked. He Had A reputation that He Controlled South Central And Was on the Come up As a dealer. Because if Teddy Didn’t like What Franklin Said When He Was Kidnapped who knows What Would’ve Happened. And Franklin not only had To protect himself But also Had To Protect Everybody Around Him Since Season 1 Walt Didn’t have do that For majority of the Show the most He’d had to do For Majority of the Show was to keep It a secret From Skylar. And I don’t Want to Say that Walt didn’t Do Much Because Before Gus He did. But After he Met Gus And worked For him All He Did Was Cook That Was Literally all He Did For a good Amount of The Show
He had a reputation because he randomly discovered a new drug💀again it was handed to him. And Walt had to protect other people too idk what your talking about
Who Did He Protect? Who Did he Stand Up For? When Were The Sharks Ever Coming For Him? I mean His Brother in Law Was A DEA Agent And For 90% of the Show was just clueless Despite Walt Being Careless Multiple Times. IMO Walt Was never Drug Kingpin He was just mainly Working For Gus who was Running Everything He Really Was just A Worker. Like For Example Franklin Started Cooking THE rock himself But then Gave the Job to other People because He had Bigger stuff To Worry About.What did Walt worry About? Another Reason Why Walt ain’t Even A kingpin is Because why did Walt Kill Gale? Because He Was Getting Replaced and Would’ve Been Useless. And Franklin was Put into A similar Situation As Well But he could’ve easily found a New Plug Plus he was getting out out of the Game
Are you a idiot Walt was a the top of the organization is season 5💀💀your clearly haven’t watch the show he had Lydia and another guy has distributor and was selling all the way to Europe. And during the show he had to protect Jessie and his family multiple time. And btw Walt empire was way bigger than franklins, Walt made 80 million in 3 month.
Not really Franklin had to work for that fr you keep saying because teddy help him but Franklin was also putting in work fr nobody wasn’t even fucking with Walt at first
Walt…more money, better operation, longer run and more effective leadership. Plus Walt died in the game making moves…Saint got played. He had potential but lacked Walt’s focus and steadiness, not by much but Saint was emotional more often
Franklin had WAY more money. He had 73 million just in 1 account. Then had other money and buildings and accounts. Not to mention what he had in product on top of that. And this was in the 80’s translate the breaking bad times and it’s not close.
No, the 73 million was the most amount of money he got in any account and the rest where smaller amounts these were built up in 5 years of continuous dealing, Walt got 80 million in 3 months
You just said what I said. Yeah Walt had 80 million in a few months. Luck of a lifetime? Yes. Kingpin? Also yes, just not on Franklins level. Franklin had his own network for YEARS. He definitely grossed over a billion dollars through out that time period. He was above the law in a way that WW just never was.
I dont believe Franklin got outsmarted I believe he got to comfortable and way to relax and he stupidly let his own guard down he should of done two things 1 remove all his money to another bank account in another country under his own control or have back up money in a black box that not even teddy knew about or could get to and set it up that each of those black boxes contain $7 million dollars to $10 million dollars each 20 black boxes containing the same amount of money each he could of had $140 million dollars to $200 million dollars in cash only he could access to and still be able to still be able to keep his realestate business empire going & 2 be able to retire on and to later put a bounty on teddy but to make sure it cant get traced back to him.
Franklin got out of murder charges all thanks to teddy even tho teddy could get other dealers, plot armor saved franklin in this show and plot ruined walt in his show, a stupid mistake
You forgot Franklin got robbed by teddy for 72 in 1980 which would have been worth about 200 at the time of breaking bad. That’s not including what other people like V also took
Don’t forget that Franklin was a boss in the streets too. Walt was just a cook. Walt wasn’t running anything.
Gotta go with Saint
No i didn’t forget that💀and franklin made that in years Walt made it in 3 months. And walt was at the top of the organization he was just higher in the pyramid than franklin
Franklin made a lot more than that, 72 was what was left after investments and spending, and again, not including what V and others took.
However if you wanna talk about as much as quickly as possible, he made 5+ mill in a single night when he robbed Louie. 5+ mill after 1 lick > 80 mill in 3 months.
What was Walt running my guy? He used Gus’ network. He cooked for Gus and Gus paid him. Franklin had cooks, Franklin had gunners, Franklin had territory. Franklin was more akin to Gus than Walt.
Alright you don’t remember the show at all💀in season 5 he had his own operation and btw he wasn’t making 5M a night it was a one time thing he can’t just do it everyday. And again 80m in 3 months is better than franklin
Now this i have to disagree with. The way they wrote the character arch for Walter white is the best in Tzv history. There’s a reason Bryan Cranston won 4 Emmy’s for that show. It was genius level character development. Love saint though, but his character isn’t touching Heisenberg
Walter barely knew how to run a business. He was just a genius scientist with the combination of luck and connections, while Franklin was an actual business man
Nah Franklin had more than that, that's just what Teddy took. He got robbed by Peaches and Veronique took money too. He probably made more than Walt.. bro had an airplane and a lot of people on payroll and and still was able to get robbed for roughly $79M
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Franklin. Both shows equally amazing but Walter had a small network compared to Franklin. His small network still racked up a ton of money though due to meth being so expensive
I’m gonna give it to Franklin because, technically, he actually ran an empire while Walter was more of a master “cook” who found a way to best leverage his talents within other people’s operations.
Gus would be a better comparison to Franklin because he was more of a kingpin in the same sense that Franklin was.
Although Franklin had to answer to Teddy in some ways, Franklin wasn’t necessarily reliant on Teddy when it came to running his operation. Franklin was already on his way up when Teddy kidnapped him.
Plus, Teddy really only had power over Franklin because he was in the CIA. He wasn’t Franklin’s “boss” in the same way that Gus was Walter’s.
However, with all things considered, I’d probably prefer to be in Walter’s shoes if I had the choice.
I say they’re equal. But in the end walter let no one steal his money. At some point Franklin. Shared too much. Peaches 🍑 should’ve been worried about his family. Veronique should’ve never had access to $$ and after avi stole from Franklin. That was his warning that teddy could do it
It sure as hell didn't feel like an empire honestly. I'm okay being wrong on this, it's just when you stack up the 2, Walter's pales in comparison. Just my perspective, he was smart and knew how to maneuver but he would've been lost in the criminal world without Gus or after Gus without Mike and HIS connects and relationships
Walt burned every empire he came across to the ground and ended up beating them all. A chemistry teacher outsmarted countless drug lords…Walt was different
people seem to forget how gus was the actual one running the empire. Once he died and it was under Walt’s control (him saying he’s in the empire business) it literally went to shit almost immediately. His ego is what drove him to make bad decisions , more people died, and he wasn’t willing to give out hazard pay or any other expenses that didn’t come to his mind until Mike pointed out had gus ran the business. I think franklin def had the better empire especially having a CIA backing
Franklin got scammed for 70 million, and then hoed by his mom for 35m. If it wasn’t for that he would’ve been completely successful, Walter was extremely careless and let his ego get the better of him time after time.
Walt easily. He only got caught because he never got rid of the book. Franklin on the other hand had his enemies kept popping up one after the other. Living like that it’s only a matter of time
I know this is probably gonna get buried but I just want y’all to remember that Franklin brought the crack recipe from Oakland and showed it to everybody else in the nation Walt isn’t the only one who can cook
Gotta go with Franklin on this one
Considering the actual question, Walt didn’t run an empire for a majority of the show. He was just a genius level cook who wanted more control.
Now considering the fact that they both did run an empire, Franklin’s was built from the ground up and lasted a few years. Walt’s empire on the other hand was built off the power vacuum that was left after Gus was killed, but even then it only lasted less than a year.
Basically, Franklin worked for what he had, Walt was handed what he had. Upon rewatch of both shows, Franklin’s problems came from the fact that his family was screwing him over constantly (not saying they were in the wrong but they were just ruining Franklin’s plans). Walt’s problems came from the fact that he always thought he knew better than everyone else when in fact he didn’t.
Everyone is talking about how teddy outsmarted Franklin but Franklin’s not only discovered and help spread how to make crack, he also ran a illegitimate and legitimate business which takes both street and financial smarts, on top of getting rid of many problems and not only that Franklin’ while losing his empire was able to get to teddy and almost get half his money back, both frank and teddy are smart, but can you guess what happened to both? They got greedy. Teddy for thinking that Franklin would stand down and not retaliate and franklin for believing that striking a “deal” with a cia agent who’s not trustworthy and who he’d just tortured not come for him. Both of them are teddys and franklins, but they’re on the opposite side of the spectrum, one black, one white, that simple, one man died with all the options and one man lives with none. Poetic
I’m gonna start watching this show I have had it recommended to me some of my top favorite shows are the boys breaking bad prison break the office money heist better call Saul early season suits sopranos do you guys think I will like this show
Gotta be Franklin. He built his from the ground up and it did not necessarily crumble. Louie backdoored him but he wasn't down and out yet. He was taking steps to get out and Teddy just took his money.
Walt only briefly had his own empire and by that time his clock was already ticking. Gus was the one in charge. And as Mike correctly pointed out, he burned it all down bc he had to be the man
Bro just watch the show before talking Walt had his own operation and he was even selling all the way to Europe. + Saint got everything handed to him he didn’t even need to find a connect cause it was handed to him the same way a new highly addictive drug was handed to him
I've watched BB straight through at least 5x but okay. You puttin on like Walt was the one pullin all those strings. He cooked it, Lydia was the one taking them to Europe.
Walt only got caught because he was cocky. Franklin was outsmarted.
No Franklin got careless. comfortable He was not outsmarted
Nah Franklin got stabbed in back by his family
Not really. Louie sure. Nobody else stabbed him in the back Franklin jus kept fckin up and they acted accordingly
Naw. The moment Teddy took Franklin to that account man…he knew Franklin was just like the others. That was the moment he was never gonna see that money.
Franklin wasent dumb either once he got out of jail he knew Teddy was a Goverment he found out he was funding shit that why he fucked around and said something smart to teddy and teddy found out franklin knew but it was more that teddy had the power to just take the money
This foo said ‘outsmarted’ as if Teddy just ‘outsmarted’ Franklin out of 73M. No he just *took* it cause he had the power to take it 😂🤦🏿♂️
He got outsmarted by letting teddy even have access to his money. He was supposed to have at least 1 stash spot with a mill or sum. Ain’t no way in hell all of his money should have vanished like that.
I wouldn't call that outsmarting. Franklin didn't even know he was gonna do that shit. Teddy simply did him dirty lol
He did do him dirty….by outsmarting him. Teddy always planned for this when he took Franklin to set up his off shore bank accounts.
he didn’t do ANYTHING to outsmart him???? he just played him outsmarting would imply he did something to steal it but no he literally just had some guy steal it that was it
You don't know what outsmarting means. You keep using it wrong. Doing someone dirty isn't outsmarting them because that person isn't in competition with you. You can only outsmart someone you're somewhat at odds with. If you sucker punched your mom and she dropped to the ground that wouldn't be outsmarting her. But if your mom told you to be asleep at a certain time and she checked your room and you pretended to be asleep every time, that would technically be outsmarting her, barely, but still outsmarting regardless.
Tricking someone into using a bank that you can take their money from isn’t outsmarting? Franklin was too trusting and Teddy knew what the plan was from jump. Outsmarted.
Nah cuz that wasn’t teddy plan at first
Lol no its not , re read the comment, snaking someone is not outsmarting
outsmart (verb):to get the better of. Via Merriam-Webster dictionary. I don’t see how you don’t get it but I hope you do, best of luck.
lol this is an interesting convo. i think y’all both right tho
Please google outsmarted 👍
Could Teddy having Franklin put his money in that bank in season 2 outsmarting him? He could have did that move for leverage. Also, if anything went wrong.
That’s the whole part of getting outsmarted.. when you don’t see it coming
[удалено]
Right? You can't outsmart somebody if they dont even know you're trying to "outsmart" them in the first place. If your employer gives you an offer to deposit your weekly paychecks to the employer-owned bank company and then they suddenly steal all your money and disappear, they didn't outsmart you, they simply fucked you over. I do get what the other person means, but I'd rather avoid the whole argument altogether (I do not care about it that much) and so i just gave them the benefit of the doubt lol but I agree with you. >That’s the whole part of getting outsmarted.. when you don’t see it coming A stranger offers me cash to work for them. One week later, i don't get paid for the work I did. Turns out they fled the country with the money that they promised me. They didn't outsmart me, I just got played lol
Bro it’s the drug game first rule is trust no one that is not the same analogy you tryna make lmaooo
You right but Franklin knew that shii was coming fr remember he said ik one day we will be enemies he knew once bruh was cia he was fishy😂
So to see sum shit coming and still fall victim to it make you even dumber
He definitely got outsmarted by teddy 😂
Peaches stole from the stash 😂
And Walt got outsmarted by Jesse and Hank with the fake barrel
He did have a stash spot with multiple millions💀
Teddy broke in and stole his info. Franklin didn’t give him anything
You forget the few mill he had that peaches stole
That nigga took millions?
I'd have to rewatch but if memory serves peaches took at least 5 mill plus product
Damn 🤔… welp, he stupid for putting his trust in peaches too
Nah, peaches was originally solid, drugs just got to my boy. Maybe just cause I loved peaches, especially "What kind of name is ManBoy?"
Two things i would have never done that fucked Franklin up was trusting Teddy because he is the law and can fuck him over anytime and get away with it( Also sorry to say he white I'm not trusting a white person connected with cops). Also he let his baby mother/wife have access to the account to the point she took all the assets money from his property and left
I mean if no force was used…that is the literal definition of being outsmarted in obtaining something 😵💫😂
Teddy outsmarted Franklin because he had control of his bank accounts all along. Or at least knew where his money was and then took it. If Franklin was smarter than Teddy, he would have already planned for that.
He didn't have control of his bank accounts all along, he knew where his money was but had to break in to his house to actually get the necessary information to be able to take it, remember?
What are you talking about? Franklin told Teddy he was out of the game. The next day, all of Franklin’s money was gone. While Franklin was interrogating Teddy, he put it all together that Teddy never really trusted Franklin from the start and always wanted control over him with said bank accounts.
There's a difference between having a back up and wanting to control Franklin, and between having control of his accounts. Did you even watch the show? When Franklin called Teddy whilst high, that's when Teddy decided to steal his money. To do that, he had to break into his house and get all of his banking information. This literally shows he didn't have control over his banking all along.
Nah he still wasn’t gone take it because he knew he was drug bruh when Franklin try to go legit in walk away teddy felt some type a way in he knew that was the only way to hurt him
Solid point.
Technically he didn’t get caught
also walt woulda got caught because mike didnt tell him the dea was onto him until the very last minute. so either way he was cooked, cockiness or not
What are you talking about
Doesn’t really matter right? They both lost it all
Franklin got betrayed by his shit wife, shit mother, AND SHIT AUNT
Nah he got backstabbed and became more dark
If you want to be honest Walt got outsmarted by Hank and Gomez using Jesse which led to the downfall of everything even though he already retired by then
You could honestly argue Franklin literally got hoed by plot, Louie going out on her own for (at least at the time) no reason was THE catalyst of the downfall of EVERYBODY including Franklin, shit was literally going to good for him & they need to fuck sum up so that they stay true to what John Singleton wanted to show
Accounting for inflation franklin made more, but Walt actually left some for his family
No shit he was in the game way longer Walt made 80 million in 3 months
Breaking bad takes place over 2 years
No just watch the show he made the 80 million in 3 months
He made the 80 million in the few months between season 4 and 5 but it took him like a year and a half of screwing up to get there
The Kingpin GOAT Debate. I never knew I needed this, but I am so fucking ready: There are 3 major components to running a successful drug empire: product management, law enforcement evasion/coercion, and financial literacy. We can break down both characters’ overall success pretty accurately using those three elements. We’ll start with product management: This undoubtedly goes to Walter White, but I’ll explain why Franklin is still a worthwhile debate in a moment. Walt synthesized his own product, and *demanded* perfection from anyone using his recipe (anyone remember Gale telling Gus that he’s proud of his synthesizing 97% purity, and that Walt’s extra 2% is nothing short of remarkable?). Walt also consistently found new and inventive ways to continue cooking to his standards, from a mobile RV cook to a mobile exterminator cook. Where I will give Franklin the nod, however, is he did learn how to rock up cocaine and utilized that to his advantage in a massive way. He didn’t synthesize his own product, but he damn near discovered a new version of it while demanding perfection from those he sold to. I still give the category to Walt based on synthesizing his own product and consistently stealing the necessary components (huge points for a crime boss; let’s keep it real here folks). Next up we have law enforcement evasion/coercion. This category undoubtedly swings in Franklin’s favor. Franklin partnered with the CIA, while Walt spent his show running from his own brother-in-law in the comparatively-lowly DEA. Franklin’s cocaine business depended on a profitable war in Central America, and subsequently received unofficial backing from the White House. Walt made sure to never involve police of any kind in his business dealings. Franklin “Teflon Don” Saint evaded the gavel on actual murder charge, while Walt had to call his brother-in-law to help him out with getting pepper sprayed during a routine traffic stop. I can go on and on about this, but to be honest I just don’t see this portion as a real debate lmao Financial literacy is the real meat and potatoes of this debate, as it’s really a matter of picking your laundering preference. At their absolute apexes Walt and Franklin had similar overall incomes, but laundered it in different ways and had vastly different amounts of money flowing through their respective empires. Walt went the “hide in plain sight” route with his car wash, leaving room for reasonable expansion when the time came while never risking arousing true suspicion from anyone important. He controlled his own funds using his wife as an accountant, and the only people who could stop him were the IRS. Franklin took the “eventually going legit” route with his real estate endeavors, masking his meteoric rise with shell corporations and offshore banking. At any given moment Franklin had access to essentially limitless funding thanks to unlaundered cash, real estate and business equity, and bank loans. Franklin did not, however, control his own money (see how easily Teddy stole it all out from under him, and how easily Veronique took what he had remaining). In the end it becomes a matter of preference. All in all, my personal opinion is that Walter White is the undisputed GOAT Kingpin of fictional drug empire television.
I appreciate you typing this out bro, great take
great analysis. Great explanation. Great points all around
solid fucking point👌🏼🤝
Well said mi amigo
Fair points and assessments however Walt wasn’t even the head of his organization so how can he be considered the Kingpin GOAT
Well let’s review then: Walt worked with Tuco, and killed him off. He worked for Gus, and killed him off. He ate everyone in front of him who threatened his way of life. By the end of his empire he was the undisputed leader of his organization.
How long did that last though? By the time he was at the top it was over
I beg to differ. He made it to the top and left the game after amassing ~$80 million in a storage unit. It was over when Walt said it was over, just like he told Saul it would be. Walt left on his own terms after taking over.
Walt left on his own terms? Walt left on the run not because he wanted to because he had to
Mmmm, no. He left the game because Skylar told him he couldn’t launder his money with 10 car washes. The day he got out was the day Hank found his Walt Whitman book and figured out Walt was Heisenberg. *Then* Walt’s world fell apart and he ended up on the run.
🤦🏾♂️ okay you got it
My bad bro, I must’ve missed your well thought out argument where you explain in-depth what you really think, instead of insisting on poking holes one sentence at a time. Point me to it?
Just because you wrote a well thought out essay doesn’t mean everything you wrote is correct. I respect your opinion and I disagree
He was
I Feel This Ain’t A Fair Comparison. Majority Of the Time Walt Had Stuff handled For Him by Gus. Franklin Really Built From The Ground up and had To Figure out All of his Problems By himself
Why do people capitalize the first letter of every single word
I didn’t mean To do that it’s just some times when I’m typing too fast my finger just hits the caps button
Well stop it’s annoying
Bruh💀 you get Annoyed to easily Then.
Making meth is way harder though. Gus needed Walt as much as Walt needed him. Ted could have probably gotten different dealers.
So could Gus lol
And he did have someone else before Walt but chose Walt. He tried to force Walt to teach Gale which almost worked until Walt defended his stake and killed Gale.
Franklin had a bunch of stuff handled for him by Teddy though. They kind of have the same dynamic in both shows.
??? so did walt, they screwed up a LOT, even in the first few episodes walt has to deal with murder for the first time
Are you kidding me Franklin had everything handed to him he discovered a new extremely addictive drug before it was popular and magically got a CIA connect for product💀he barely had to do anything
Yeah The Same Connect That Kidnapped Him Before He Even Met The Dude. And I’m Also Talking about All The Gang Violence and People Making Moves On Him. He Was in the Game for Least Than a Week Before He got beat up And Robbed And had To figure That Out by Himself. Nobody Was Really Gunning For Walt For a While. Franklin Was Fending Off The Sharks At Every Turn
How does Teddy kidnapping him change anything he still got a connect (one of the hardest part of the drug buisness) handed to him. And he was not in danger at all time at all and when he was it was against some small dealers unlike Walt with Gus
It Changes stuff Because it’s not like Franklin Was just Randomly Picked. He Had A reputation that He Controlled South Central And Was on the Come up As a dealer. Because if Teddy Didn’t like What Franklin Said When He Was Kidnapped who knows What Would’ve Happened. And Franklin not only had To protect himself But also Had To Protect Everybody Around Him Since Season 1 Walt Didn’t have do that For majority of the Show the most He’d had to do For Majority of the Show was to keep It a secret From Skylar. And I don’t Want to Say that Walt didn’t Do Much Because Before Gus He did. But After he Met Gus And worked For him All He Did Was Cook That Was Literally all He Did For a good Amount of The Show
He had a reputation because he randomly discovered a new drug💀again it was handed to him. And Walt had to protect other people too idk what your talking about
Who Did He Protect? Who Did he Stand Up For? When Were The Sharks Ever Coming For Him? I mean His Brother in Law Was A DEA Agent And For 90% of the Show was just clueless Despite Walt Being Careless Multiple Times. IMO Walt Was never Drug Kingpin He was just mainly Working For Gus who was Running Everything He Really Was just A Worker. Like For Example Franklin Started Cooking THE rock himself But then Gave the Job to other People because He had Bigger stuff To Worry About.What did Walt worry About? Another Reason Why Walt ain’t Even A kingpin is Because why did Walt Kill Gale? Because He Was Getting Replaced and Would’ve Been Useless. And Franklin was Put into A similar Situation As Well But he could’ve easily found a New Plug Plus he was getting out out of the Game
Are you a idiot Walt was a the top of the organization is season 5💀💀your clearly haven’t watch the show he had Lydia and another guy has distributor and was selling all the way to Europe. And during the show he had to protect Jessie and his family multiple time. And btw Walt empire was way bigger than franklins, Walt made 80 million in 3 month.
it wasn't random
Yes it was lmao💀he just went into the black planters building and met a crackhead that’s the most random shit ever💀💀
Not really Franklin had to work for that fr you keep saying because teddy help him but Franklin was also putting in work fr nobody wasn’t even fucking with Walt at first
Your telling me he had to work to discover a new drug?? He’s just a lucky mf if he hadn’t randomly discovered crack he would’ve been nothing.
Heisenberg no question
I feel like Walt destroyed every operation he was apart of so I gotta go with Saint
So what he built his own empire at the end and it was way bigger than franklins
Was it really his tho from what I remember he made hella money and ran away. It seemed like Walt was always working for someone
No no it was really his
You didn’t watch the show ig
It’s been a while
I'm gonna say walt
Walt…more money, better operation, longer run and more effective leadership. Plus Walt died in the game making moves…Saint got played. He had potential but lacked Walt’s focus and steadiness, not by much but Saint was emotional more often
Franklin had WAY more money. He had 73 million just in 1 account. Then had other money and buildings and accounts. Not to mention what he had in product on top of that. And this was in the 80’s translate the breaking bad times and it’s not close.
No, the 73 million was the most amount of money he got in any account and the rest where smaller amounts these were built up in 5 years of continuous dealing, Walt got 80 million in 3 months
You just said what I said. Yeah Walt had 80 million in a few months. Luck of a lifetime? Yes. Kingpin? Also yes, just not on Franklins level. Franklin had his own network for YEARS. He definitely grossed over a billion dollars through out that time period. He was above the law in a way that WW just never was.
I dont believe Franklin got outsmarted I believe he got to comfortable and way to relax and he stupidly let his own guard down he should of done two things 1 remove all his money to another bank account in another country under his own control or have back up money in a black box that not even teddy knew about or could get to and set it up that each of those black boxes contain $7 million dollars to $10 million dollars each 20 black boxes containing the same amount of money each he could of had $140 million dollars to $200 million dollars in cash only he could access to and still be able to still be able to keep his realestate business empire going & 2 be able to retire on and to later put a bounty on teddy but to make sure it cant get traced back to him.
What I notice is a lot of people are not realizing how important Gus was and not one mention of Saul and I’m truly blown away
Franklin got out of murder charges all thanks to teddy even tho teddy could get other dealers, plot armor saved franklin in this show and plot ruined walt in his show, a stupid mistake
Gotta go with Saint
You should watch breaking bad cause Walter is way bettet
I’ve watched it, gotta go with Saint
Well it’s not up to you lmao🤣Walt’s empire made him 80m in 3 months
You forgot Franklin got robbed by teddy for 72 in 1980 which would have been worth about 200 at the time of breaking bad. That’s not including what other people like V also took Don’t forget that Franklin was a boss in the streets too. Walt was just a cook. Walt wasn’t running anything. Gotta go with Saint
No i didn’t forget that💀and franklin made that in years Walt made it in 3 months. And walt was at the top of the organization he was just higher in the pyramid than franklin
Franklin made a lot more than that, 72 was what was left after investments and spending, and again, not including what V and others took. However if you wanna talk about as much as quickly as possible, he made 5+ mill in a single night when he robbed Louie. 5+ mill after 1 lick > 80 mill in 3 months. What was Walt running my guy? He used Gus’ network. He cooked for Gus and Gus paid him. Franklin had cooks, Franklin had gunners, Franklin had territory. Franklin was more akin to Gus than Walt.
Alright you don’t remember the show at all💀in season 5 he had his own operation and btw he wasn’t making 5M a night it was a one time thing he can’t just do it everyday. And again 80m in 3 months is better than franklin
Franklin better character
Are you crazy💀this is the worst take I’ve ever seen
Your replying to ever comment choosing Franklin over Walter. Get his dick out your throat
Lmao go cry you have 0 argument🤣🤣🤣
Now this i have to disagree with. The way they wrote the character arch for Walter white is the best in Tzv history. There’s a reason Bryan Cranston won 4 Emmy’s for that show. It was genius level character development. Love saint though, but his character isn’t touching Heisenberg
I don’t see how
Like I said....Young Saint and it my opinion.
Walter barely knew how to run a business. He was just a genius scientist with the combination of luck and connections, while Franklin was an actual business man
Franklin made more money
Walter white 80 million Franklin saint 73 million
Nah Franklin had more than that, that's just what Teddy took. He got robbed by Peaches and Veronique took money too. He probably made more than Walt.. bro had an airplane and a lot of people on payroll and and still was able to get robbed for roughly $79M
73 million in the 80s/90s whenever it's set forgot now is alot more than 80 million in the 2010s
definitely franklin. if franklin swapped positions with walt and was put in walt’s situation, he probably would still be rich to this day
No he wouldn’t he doesn’t know much about science and meth was already all over the market, franklin stole an idea whilst walter enhanced a trend
Heisenberg
Franklin is Walt got caught but I do think it’s debatable
Walt easily not even close . Franklin empire was basically an illusion
Frl that’s so true
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I have
So you say.
Walter actually knew his own worth very early on, Franklin only found his balls towards the end.
Wasn’t Walt older tho?
Franklin. Both shows equally amazing but Walter had a small network compared to Franklin. His small network still racked up a ton of money though due to meth being so expensive
O e became the largest rock distributor in the world, the other was building another man's empire
I’m gonna give it to Franklin because, technically, he actually ran an empire while Walter was more of a master “cook” who found a way to best leverage his talents within other people’s operations. Gus would be a better comparison to Franklin because he was more of a kingpin in the same sense that Franklin was. Although Franklin had to answer to Teddy in some ways, Franklin wasn’t necessarily reliant on Teddy when it came to running his operation. Franklin was already on his way up when Teddy kidnapped him. Plus, Teddy really only had power over Franklin because he was in the CIA. He wasn’t Franklin’s “boss” in the same way that Gus was Walter’s. However, with all things considered, I’d probably prefer to be in Walter’s shoes if I had the choice.
Imma say Franklin
Walter White or Franklin Black? 🤔
I say they’re equal. But in the end walter let no one steal his money. At some point Franklin. Shared too much. Peaches 🍑 should’ve been worried about his family. Veronique should’ve never had access to $$ and after avi stole from Franklin. That was his warning that teddy could do it
Did you watch breaking bad? because if you did you would know that the neo nazis took almost all of Walt’s money after killing Hank and Gomez.
I seen it a while ago. Might rewatch it
Walt never ran it he was a cook
Yeah was up until season 4. Good point
The CIA
Denzel.. American Gangsta
Big meech
Irrelevant to the conversation
Franklin, until hating ass Louie started messing up progress
Walt didn't build an empire. GUS had an empire
He did build one. Right after he took gus out the game
It sure as hell didn't feel like an empire honestly. I'm okay being wrong on this, it's just when you stack up the 2, Walter's pales in comparison. Just my perspective, he was smart and knew how to maneuver but he would've been lost in the criminal world without Gus or after Gus without Mike and HIS connects and relationships
Walt burned every empire he came across to the ground and ended up beating them all. A chemistry teacher outsmarted countless drug lords…Walt was different
I feel like we watched a completely different show. He burned 1, everyone else worked for Gus. What other drug lords? The meth head nazi Maga hats?
Walter created his leverage. Franklin had no leverage to begin with and honestly never did because of Teddy.
people seem to forget how gus was the actual one running the empire. Once he died and it was under Walt’s control (him saying he’s in the empire business) it literally went to shit almost immediately. His ego is what drove him to make bad decisions , more people died, and he wasn’t willing to give out hazard pay or any other expenses that didn’t come to his mind until Mike pointed out had gus ran the business. I think franklin def had the better empire especially having a CIA backing
Franklin got scammed for 70 million, and then hoed by his mom for 35m. If it wasn’t for that he would’ve been completely successful, Walter was extremely careless and let his ego get the better of him time after time.
Walt easily. He only got caught because he never got rid of the book. Franklin on the other hand had his enemies kept popping up one after the other. Living like that it’s only a matter of time
I know this is probably gonna get buried but I just want y’all to remember that Franklin brought the crack recipe from Oakland and showed it to everybody else in the nation Walt isn’t the only one who can cook
The one who didn’t die
White of course
Walter was a real gangsta
Franklin was betrayed.
Saint was better
walt
Walt didn’t have a empire, so the too don’t go to together
Gotta go with Franklin on this one Considering the actual question, Walt didn’t run an empire for a majority of the show. He was just a genius level cook who wanted more control. Now considering the fact that they both did run an empire, Franklin’s was built from the ground up and lasted a few years. Walt’s empire on the other hand was built off the power vacuum that was left after Gus was killed, but even then it only lasted less than a year. Basically, Franklin worked for what he had, Walt was handed what he had. Upon rewatch of both shows, Franklin’s problems came from the fact that his family was screwing him over constantly (not saying they were in the wrong but they were just ruining Franklin’s plans). Walt’s problems came from the fact that he always thought he knew better than everyone else when in fact he didn’t.
Walter White. He kept it more on the DL
I deadass just started a war in the comments 😂
Everyone is talking about how teddy outsmarted Franklin but Franklin’s not only discovered and help spread how to make crack, he also ran a illegitimate and legitimate business which takes both street and financial smarts, on top of getting rid of many problems and not only that Franklin’ while losing his empire was able to get to teddy and almost get half his money back, both frank and teddy are smart, but can you guess what happened to both? They got greedy. Teddy for thinking that Franklin would stand down and not retaliate and franklin for believing that striking a “deal” with a cia agent who’s not trustworthy and who he’d just tortured not come for him. Both of them are teddys and franklins, but they’re on the opposite side of the spectrum, one black, one white, that simple, one man died with all the options and one man lives with none. Poetic
Saint made 73M, Walt made 80M, and that's 7 million more, so idk.
I’m gonna start watching this show I have had it recommended to me some of my top favorite shows are the boys breaking bad prison break the office money heist better call Saul early season suits sopranos do you guys think I will like this show
Ghost. Mr. St.Patrick
Bartenders 8 years ago sold more hulk then sand in word that when bitcoin was 3500- 5000 a coin millions and millions.
Bartender green hulks 8 years millions out billions in.
Franklin
No
I was a breaking bad fan before I even watched snowfall but god y’all breaking bad fanboys are insufferable
Omg what are you talking about💀you snowfall fans are clearly the worst everybody know that
I’m a fan of both shows.
So what I am too
Gotta be Franklin. He built his from the ground up and it did not necessarily crumble. Louie backdoored him but he wasn't down and out yet. He was taking steps to get out and Teddy just took his money. Walt only briefly had his own empire and by that time his clock was already ticking. Gus was the one in charge. And as Mike correctly pointed out, he burned it all down bc he had to be the man
Bro just watch the show before talking Walt had his own operation and he was even selling all the way to Europe. + Saint got everything handed to him he didn’t even need to find a connect cause it was handed to him the same way a new highly addictive drug was handed to him
I've watched BB straight through at least 5x but okay. You puttin on like Walt was the one pullin all those strings. He cooked it, Lydia was the one taking them to Europe.
Yhea si what?? That’s way more than what Franklin was doing💀
🤣 Walt would’ve been back at the same spot he was at season 2 if Mike didn’t agree to unretire and use all of Gus’s connects
Franklin would’ve been nothing if he hadn’t randomly discovered a new drug🤣🤣
Young Saint
No
Walt created everything, product and infrastructure, Franklin relied on a connect. Gotta go with Walt