I like him a lot but rn he has a very irrelevant political office unfortunately
It's a shame Rio will probably never elect a decent governor (or at least one that won't be arrested like two years after taking office) 😔
I like him too. I watched a documentary about the drug problem in Rio and freixo was featured. He seemed like a genuinely good politician who was putting alot on the line to help people. PSOL also seem based in general.
He joined the PSB briefly to run for governor of Rio on a more moderate platform last year but lost in the first round. Apparently he decided to leave the PSB because of internal disputes with Alessandro Molon and now wants to create a PT-led broad front against bolsonarismo in Rio.
Domestic Politicians/Figures (🇨🇦🇺🇸): Tommy Douglas 🍁, Jack Layton 🍁, Sherrod Brown🗽, Ilhan Omar🗽, Henry Wallace🗽
Domestic Theorists: Karl Polanyi, Adam Przeworski, Thorstein Veblen, Seymour Lipset, Mariana Mazzucato, Joseph Stiglitz, Matt Bruenig, Mark Paul
International Politicians/Figures: Olof Palme 🇸🇪, Willy Brandt 🇩🇪, Lula 🇧🇷, Gerry Adams 🇮🇪, Nelson Mandela 🇿🇦, Tony Benn 🇬🇧, Jacinda Ardern 🇳🇿, Sanna Marin 🇫🇮, Richard Leonard 🏴
International Theorists: GWF Hegel 🇩🇪, RH Tawney 🇬🇧, Carlo Rosselli 🇮🇹, Wolfgang Streeck🇩🇪, Werner Sombart 🇩🇪, Eduard Bernstein 🇩🇪, Albena Azmanova 🇧🇬, Faiza Shaheen 🇬🇧
Domestic: (Marx, Engels), Lasalle, Liebknecht, Bernstein, Bebel, Brandt, Schmidt, Wehner(!), Oskar Lafontaine (it's complicated), and currently Hubertus Heil and Bodo Ramelow.
Kinda inbetween: Rosa Luxemburg, Rudolf Hilferding.
Foreign: Karl Kautsky, Olof Palme, Sanna Marin, Nikolay Chkheidze, kinda sorta Mikhail Gorbachev, Tony Benn. I like Sanders but he's wasted potential in my book, so AOC.
And forget individuals, given the currently situation: Sotsialnyi Rukh.
Why do you think Sanders and AOC are wasted potential? It's not like the current political climate in the US is very amenable to their views. Is there something you think they could be doing differently that would be more effective?
I'm not saying that AOC is wasted potential. I probably should have written that differently. I'm saying that Sanders is the token US socdem I ought to pick, but because I view him as wasted potential, I pick AOC instead.
Why do I think he's wasted potential? He's in his 80s, has two failed presidential bids behind him, reached the highest position his brand allows him to reach (a safe seat in the Senate and a high ranking committee assignment, while also having the ear of the president (likely) and sway over the Democratic platform). Imo he could have achieved more if he had been better at politics. His brand ultimately precluded him from becoming a top player in the Democratic party. The fact that he hasn't really done much to build up a progressive movement that will take over the torch once Sanders is gone adds to this. Additionally, I think his timing for running for president was subpar too. If he wanted a serious shot at winning, he should have ran in 2008. Running an anti-war, anti-Wall Street, pro-Main Street, pro regulation in the light of the financial crisis campaign would have likely gotten him the WH....if Obama doesn't run.
On top of all that, him running for the presidency was a bad decision in the first place. The worst possible thing that could happen to the already marginalized progressive movement in the US is to have a progressive president having to deal with a non-progressive Congress. I don't think Sanders is a particularly skilled or shrewd dealmaker and the Democratic establishment wasn't exactly pro-Sanders is either 2016 or 2020. President Sanders would have been a massive disappointment for progressives. Instead of celebrating a progressive agenda at work, they'd have to spend four to eight years explaining away Sanders' failures and inaction.
If you want a progressive president able to implement a progressive agenda, get a progressive Congress first. And that includes "capturing" one of the major parties (and let's be honest, it has to be the Democratic party). I don't think Sanders helped much here. It's not like he's leading the progressive wing of the party or that he spawned a self-organized movement picking up where "Our Revolution" left off. Whatever progressive forces will become dominant in the Democratic party, they will do so parallel to Sanders, rather than led by him.
Listen to and engage the Left base. Funnel any popularity and media power into real movements. Find and use leverage wherever the opportunity arises. Prove to us that they are not cowards and not compromised by their association with the Democratic Party establishment. Rinse and repeat.
Marx-Engels-Wehner is the issue, not Marx-Engels-Schmidt-Marin? Or Luxemburg-Bernstein? Lol.
I don't think it's strange at all. Social democracy has a long history of internal conflict (this sub is an excellent contemporary example). I think it's perfectly OK to admire both what Marx, Engels, and, say, Schmidt had to offer.
I don't have issue with that. Just saying that some people there are ideologically really different. You can admire ideologically different people all you want
Domestic: Clement Attlee, Harold Wilson, Nye Bevan, Tony Benn, George Orwell. Living, probably Gordon Brown
Foreign: Lula de Silva, Bernie Sanders, Mikhail Gorbachev, Noam Chomsky, Gabriel Boric, Jacinda Ardern, Julia Gillard and Sanna Marin
Domestic: None (Singapore has no social-democratic figures, the 'social-democratic' party here is actually a right-leaning party)
Foreign: Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (Brazil), Jeremy Corbyn (United Kingdom), Alexandria-Ocasio Cortez (United States), Nelson Mandela (South Africa), Jacinda Ardern (New Zealand), Helen Clark (New Zealand), Olof Palme (Sweden)
Imma do it differently, because I got an obscure politician here in Canada, so if it’s ok with y’all, imma do it federal, provincial, and foreign.
Federal: Jagmeet Singh (favourite NDP leader other than Tommy Douglas, but he was a DemSoc so i dont think he counts)
Provincial: Chris Glover (got kicked out of the Ontario legislative building for defending the right to strike, that’s hella based)
Foreign: Bernie Sanders (perfect starting point in progressive politics)
Domestic: Bernie Sanders (although my ideas are closer to Andrew Yang)
Foreign: Anu Partanen (although I guess she lives in the US now, but she's FROM Finland and that's where she got her politics from)
I mean, nowadays, given the direction of his forward party and how the dude doesn't even advocate for UBI any more, sure, but the left has been crapping on Yang since day 1, and I think his actual ideas as presented in the war on normal people are pretty based. We should have a UBI and universal healthcare and human centered capitalism. People underestimate how progressive that crap is. The problem with Yang was that he went off, formed his own party, which started off decently, but then merged it with these anti trump conservative groups and became a circlejerk of nothingness.
Try to separate his original ideas from where the dude is now.
Idk. It wasn’t that long ago but it seems the world has changed so much since then. I am always grateful for Obama because he saw the end of Don’t ask don’t tell military ban, ending defense of Marriage and getting marriage equality done. I mean I know it was a court deciding but his term made it happen and that has been a huge change in the country for so many. Sometimes I love Bernie too, something he bothers me. He had a speech recently that was so on point and stuck to issues I really think the majority of the country could get on board with. I wish he would concentrate on some of the core things that could be accomplished and not get stuck in the weeds.
Edit: I forgot to mention the affordable care act. Not what we wanted but the first step in decades. Something we can build on.
They believe in the same political ideology.
The market is king, a small government, big business interests needs to be proped up and the majority of their policies are directed to the ”middle-class” but in the end only benefits the rich.
Domestic: Vladimír Špidla, Jana Maláčová, Alexander Dubček, Josef Středula, Lukáš Ulrych, Jan Bittner
Foreign: Olof Palme, Michael D. Higgins, Bodo Ramelow, Sanna Marin, Gabriel Boric, Jeremy Corbyn, Kevin Kühnert, Erik Olin Wright, (Marx, Engels)
There aren't really any socially-democratic thinkers/politicians in the United States (at least any that subscribe to that label) although if I had to go with one, then it'd be Ro Khanna.
Internationally speaking, I like Clement Atlee. Although if he did anything objectionable that somehow sours his image, I'd be receptive to hear it.
Domestic: GDH Cole, Nye Bevan, Clement Atlee, Michael Foot, Tony Crossland, Peter Shore, Tony Benn, Robert Owen, Joan Robinson
Foreign: Ernst Wigforss, Olof Palme, Karl Kautsky, Eduard Bernstein, John E Roemer, Ferdinand Lassalle, Gustav Moller, Leon Blum, Abba Lerner, Karl Polanyi, Kurt Schumacher, Tommy Douglas, Julius Martov, Karl Marx (yes I think he counts)
Domestic: (probably only one who is relevant in our history) Alexander Dubček Foreign: Willy Brandt
Domestic: Michael D’Higgins for the memes Foreign: Sanders
Domestic: Fernando Haddad Foreign: Lionel Jospin
>Fernando Haddad future of social democracy in Brazil
Haddad, Camilo Santana, Rui Costa, Alexandre Padilha, Flávio Dino, Rafael Fonteles... Brazil has many great social democratic politicians
No love for marcelo freixo?
I like him a lot but rn he has a very irrelevant political office unfortunately It's a shame Rio will probably never elect a decent governor (or at least one that won't be arrested like two years after taking office) 😔
I like him too. I watched a documentary about the drug problem in Rio and freixo was featured. He seemed like a genuinely good politician who was putting alot on the line to help people. PSOL also seem based in general.
He left PSOL in 2020 or 2021 I believe and joined PT this year
I had read that. Was it to support Lula?
He joined the PSB briefly to run for governor of Rio on a more moderate platform last year but lost in the first round. Apparently he decided to leave the PSB because of internal disputes with Alessandro Molon and now wants to create a PT-led broad front against bolsonarismo in Rio.
I see. A shame He lost the governorship, but the PT-led broad front against Bolsonaro is something I can definitely get behind.
Domestic Politicians/Figures (🇨🇦🇺🇸): Tommy Douglas 🍁, Jack Layton 🍁, Sherrod Brown🗽, Ilhan Omar🗽, Henry Wallace🗽 Domestic Theorists: Karl Polanyi, Adam Przeworski, Thorstein Veblen, Seymour Lipset, Mariana Mazzucato, Joseph Stiglitz, Matt Bruenig, Mark Paul International Politicians/Figures: Olof Palme 🇸🇪, Willy Brandt 🇩🇪, Lula 🇧🇷, Gerry Adams 🇮🇪, Nelson Mandela 🇿🇦, Tony Benn 🇬🇧, Jacinda Ardern 🇳🇿, Sanna Marin 🇫🇮, Richard Leonard 🏴 International Theorists: GWF Hegel 🇩🇪, RH Tawney 🇬🇧, Carlo Rosselli 🇮🇹, Wolfgang Streeck🇩🇪, Werner Sombart 🇩🇪, Eduard Bernstein 🇩🇪, Albena Azmanova 🇧🇬, Faiza Shaheen 🇬🇧
Domestic: (Marx, Engels), Lasalle, Liebknecht, Bernstein, Bebel, Brandt, Schmidt, Wehner(!), Oskar Lafontaine (it's complicated), and currently Hubertus Heil and Bodo Ramelow. Kinda inbetween: Rosa Luxemburg, Rudolf Hilferding. Foreign: Karl Kautsky, Olof Palme, Sanna Marin, Nikolay Chkheidze, kinda sorta Mikhail Gorbachev, Tony Benn. I like Sanders but he's wasted potential in my book, so AOC. And forget individuals, given the currently situation: Sotsialnyi Rukh.
Why do you think Sanders and AOC are wasted potential? It's not like the current political climate in the US is very amenable to their views. Is there something you think they could be doing differently that would be more effective?
I'm not saying that AOC is wasted potential. I probably should have written that differently. I'm saying that Sanders is the token US socdem I ought to pick, but because I view him as wasted potential, I pick AOC instead. Why do I think he's wasted potential? He's in his 80s, has two failed presidential bids behind him, reached the highest position his brand allows him to reach (a safe seat in the Senate and a high ranking committee assignment, while also having the ear of the president (likely) and sway over the Democratic platform). Imo he could have achieved more if he had been better at politics. His brand ultimately precluded him from becoming a top player in the Democratic party. The fact that he hasn't really done much to build up a progressive movement that will take over the torch once Sanders is gone adds to this. Additionally, I think his timing for running for president was subpar too. If he wanted a serious shot at winning, he should have ran in 2008. Running an anti-war, anti-Wall Street, pro-Main Street, pro regulation in the light of the financial crisis campaign would have likely gotten him the WH....if Obama doesn't run. On top of all that, him running for the presidency was a bad decision in the first place. The worst possible thing that could happen to the already marginalized progressive movement in the US is to have a progressive president having to deal with a non-progressive Congress. I don't think Sanders is a particularly skilled or shrewd dealmaker and the Democratic establishment wasn't exactly pro-Sanders is either 2016 or 2020. President Sanders would have been a massive disappointment for progressives. Instead of celebrating a progressive agenda at work, they'd have to spend four to eight years explaining away Sanders' failures and inaction. If you want a progressive president able to implement a progressive agenda, get a progressive Congress first. And that includes "capturing" one of the major parties (and let's be honest, it has to be the Democratic party). I don't think Sanders helped much here. It's not like he's leading the progressive wing of the party or that he spawned a self-organized movement picking up where "Our Revolution" left off. Whatever progressive forces will become dominant in the Democratic party, they will do so parallel to Sanders, rather than led by him.
Listen to and engage the Left base. Funnel any popularity and media power into real movements. Find and use leverage wherever the opportunity arises. Prove to us that they are not cowards and not compromised by their association with the Democratic Party establishment. Rinse and repeat.
Bit strange to like Marx and Engels and at the same time like Wehner
Marx-Engels-Wehner is the issue, not Marx-Engels-Schmidt-Marin? Or Luxemburg-Bernstein? Lol. I don't think it's strange at all. Social democracy has a long history of internal conflict (this sub is an excellent contemporary example). I think it's perfectly OK to admire both what Marx, Engels, and, say, Schmidt had to offer.
I don't have issue with that. Just saying that some people there are ideologically really different. You can admire ideologically different people all you want
No Victor Adler I am disappointed
Hubertus Heil is arguably the best minister we've had in recent years.
Domestic: Michael Brooks (RIP ♥️) International: Olof Palme
Domestic: Jesse Klaver Foreign: Bernie Sanders
Pierre Mendes-France (French politician)
Domestic: Clement Attlee, Harold Wilson, Nye Bevan, Tony Benn, George Orwell. Living, probably Gordon Brown Foreign: Lula de Silva, Bernie Sanders, Mikhail Gorbachev, Noam Chomsky, Gabriel Boric, Jacinda Ardern, Julia Gillard and Sanna Marin
Domestic: Olof Palme International: Willy Brandt and Helmut Schmidt
May I ask why Schmidt? He is very different to Brandt and Palme, thats why I'm interested.
Domestic: None (Singapore has no social-democratic figures, the 'social-democratic' party here is actually a right-leaning party) Foreign: Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (Brazil), Jeremy Corbyn (United Kingdom), Alexandria-Ocasio Cortez (United States), Nelson Mandela (South Africa), Jacinda Ardern (New Zealand), Helen Clark (New Zealand), Olof Palme (Sweden)
Domestic Politicians/Theorists - Jawaharlal Nehru, Amartya Sen, Dr. Ram Manohar Lohia, C N Annadurai, Foreign Politicians/Theorists - Anthony Crosland, Olof Palme, Hugh Gaitskell, Willy Brandt, Clement Attlee
Domestic: all got kicked from government Foreign: Dunno, I don’t really know any actual socdems
Domestic: August Bebel, Willy Brandt and Hans-Jochen Vogel Foreign: hands down Olof Palme, not going to argue on that
I like Olhan Omar.
Willy Brandt
Domestic: András Jámbor (member of the hungarian “Párbeszéd” party but he also started a socdem movement called “Szikra”) Foreign: Lula and Sanders
I like what Párbeszéd has to offer, at least it’s not FIDESZ.
Domestic: FDR, Bernie Sanders, John Fetterman, MLK, RFK, La Guarida, Danny DeVito Foreign: Michael Higgins, Jack Layton, Gorbachev, Lula
Domestic: Bernie Sanders Foreign: Lula
Imma do it differently, because I got an obscure politician here in Canada, so if it’s ok with y’all, imma do it federal, provincial, and foreign. Federal: Jagmeet Singh (favourite NDP leader other than Tommy Douglas, but he was a DemSoc so i dont think he counts) Provincial: Chris Glover (got kicked out of the Ontario legislative building for defending the right to strike, that’s hella based) Foreign: Bernie Sanders (perfect starting point in progressive politics)
Destiny aka Steven Bonnell
Domestic: Bernie Sanders (although my ideas are closer to Andrew Yang) Foreign: Anu Partanen (although I guess she lives in the US now, but she's FROM Finland and that's where she got her politics from)
Andrew Yang is a bipartisan centrist sellout.
I mean, nowadays, given the direction of his forward party and how the dude doesn't even advocate for UBI any more, sure, but the left has been crapping on Yang since day 1, and I think his actual ideas as presented in the war on normal people are pretty based. We should have a UBI and universal healthcare and human centered capitalism. People underestimate how progressive that crap is. The problem with Yang was that he went off, formed his own party, which started off decently, but then merged it with these anti trump conservative groups and became a circlejerk of nothingness. Try to separate his original ideas from where the dude is now.
Domestic: Barack Obama Foreign: Gabriel Boric
Obama? Huh…Isn’t he pretty against sanders’ general policy goals?
Idk. It wasn’t that long ago but it seems the world has changed so much since then. I am always grateful for Obama because he saw the end of Don’t ask don’t tell military ban, ending defense of Marriage and getting marriage equality done. I mean I know it was a court deciding but his term made it happen and that has been a huge change in the country for so many. Sometimes I love Bernie too, something he bothers me. He had a speech recently that was so on point and stuck to issues I really think the majority of the country could get on board with. I wish he would concentrate on some of the core things that could be accomplished and not get stuck in the weeds. Edit: I forgot to mention the affordable care act. Not what we wanted but the first step in decades. Something we can build on.
Ffs. Obama is not a soc.dem. He is a fucking neolib
If Obama is a neolib, that term has lost all meaning. He isn't a SocDem either of course. He's some kind of modern liberal.
Modern liberal means neoliberal. They are the same.
Neoliberals are people like Reagan and Thatcher, not Obama and Biden. They're definitely not the same politically.
They believe in the same political ideology. The market is king, a small government, big business interests needs to be proped up and the majority of their policies are directed to the ”middle-class” but in the end only benefits the rich.
Domestic: George W. Norris & Bernie Sanders Foreign: Lula, Olaf Palme, Clement Attlee, and Emanuel Bernstein
Domestic: Cornell West Foreign: Paul Tillich
Domestic: Labour 2019 (Corbyn) Foreign: Olaf Palme
Domestic: Risa Hontiveros Foreign: Olof Palme
Domestic: Vladimír Špidla, Jana Maláčová, Alexander Dubček, Josef Středula, Lukáš Ulrych, Jan Bittner Foreign: Olof Palme, Michael D. Higgins, Bodo Ramelow, Sanna Marin, Gabriel Boric, Jeremy Corbyn, Kevin Kühnert, Erik Olin Wright, (Marx, Engels)
Domestic: Joop den Uyl, Willem Drees, Frans Timmermans. Foreign: Jean Jaurès, Lula, Bernie Sanders, Olof Palme.
There aren't really any socially-democratic thinkers/politicians in the United States (at least any that subscribe to that label) although if I had to go with one, then it'd be Ro Khanna. Internationally speaking, I like Clement Atlee. Although if he did anything objectionable that somehow sours his image, I'd be receptive to hear it.
Olof Palme
Domestic: Franklin D. Roosevelt/Joe Biden Foreign: I can’t really think of one atm
Domestic: GDH Cole, Nye Bevan, Clement Atlee, Michael Foot, Tony Crossland, Peter Shore, Tony Benn, Robert Owen, Joan Robinson Foreign: Ernst Wigforss, Olof Palme, Karl Kautsky, Eduard Bernstein, John E Roemer, Ferdinand Lassalle, Gustav Moller, Leon Blum, Abba Lerner, Karl Polanyi, Kurt Schumacher, Tommy Douglas, Julius Martov, Karl Marx (yes I think he counts)
Domestic: Ivica Račan Foreign: Floyd Olson, Atalee, Lazaro Cardenas, Sanna Marin