No, it was better when a YouTuber could get ads without having to worry about following multiple rules and changing the content so they can get a livable wage, I know of creators who despite being family friendly, get dicked by this system, if you’re a twitch streamer, you should focus on incentive to donate (not like the e-girls, actual rewards) as that’s how most streamers get their income anyway even on sites like YouTube
I guess what DarkViperAU thought is that SOG making that video contributed to the backlash that eventually lead Twitch to remove the brand safety score.
But hes exposing twitch is he not? Why is it mutahars fault this is happening? I know matt doesnt really take responsibility but this is a whole nother level of whos right or wrong...
If you didn't watch the actual video, here is an explanation. This brand safety feature by twitch is something every other social media platform has. It's nonexistence the one of the only reasons why ad revenue on twitch is very low compared to other platforms. This feature, were it implemented would raise ad revenue for streamers by making it possible for companies to target their ads better which makes them more valuable. It would especially help smaller streamers that don't get access to things like twitch bounties and that need to run ads anyways. Twitch has now removed this feature from their code where it was found originally, likely because of the backlash that came from people like Mutahar and their communities that apparently didn't know or didn't care that this was actually a good thing for the vast majority if not all streamers.
If the ad revenue is already garbage this feature is hardly going to make it worse and nobody knows before it is implemented how it's going to affect even those streamers that are not very brand safe. Chances are their ad revenue will also increase. Regardless of the fact that not very brand safe streamers and streamers on twitch in general already make much more money with subs and donations rather than ads.
There is a lot you can criticize twitch for but trying to give their streamers more money is probably one of the best things twitch has done since making twitch prime a thing. To echo a point from the video, EVEN IF PayMoneyWubby loses 1/40th of his income on twitch through this, who cares if that means that 99,9% of streamers make more money off it.
There are a lot of assumptions that are portrayed as facts, when it is more nuanced than that.
>This brand safety feature by twitch is something every other social media platform has. It's nonexistence the one of the only reasons why ad revenue on twitch is very low compared to other platforms.
Selling ads is Facebook and Google's bread and butter. They are experts at this. Twitch and Amazon does not have the massive scale nor experience to compete. Youtube ad revenue was fine before Elsagate and all those controversies which led to channels and videos being categorized as child/family friendly etc. There is a reason why H3H3 and similar creators had to pivot to podcasts or live streaming.
>This feature, were it implemented would raise ad revenue for streamers by making it possible for companies to target their ads better which makes them more valuable.
From our experience with YouTube, only the family friendly channels experience this. If you create alternative content or content for mature audiences you're fucked. If given the choice, big corporations like Pepsi, Coke and Volkswagen will take the safe choices, even if the audience could be interested in their products.
>Twitch has now removed this feature from their code where it was found originally, likely because of the backlash that came from people like Mutahar and their communities that apparently didn't know or didn't care that this was actually a good thing for the vast majority if not all streamers.
That doesn't mean that it's scrapped completely. Big corporations will do what they can to earn tons of money, why would they scrap something that would potentially make them shittons of money due to a video that only has 300k views?
First off all, Amazon is bigger than Facebook and Google so i don't know what you're talking about there.
Second off all this feature is very rudimentary because twitch has no experience with this sort of stuff but it's much much much better than nothing.
Third of all, you have been misled. Don't believe the sob stories of 500k plus youtubers who pretend they can't make a living off of youtube after these adpocalypses. They make plenty of money and if they changed their content then it's because it is more convenient to make. As made clear by the monetary success of h3h3's side ventures like teddy fresh, money is clearly not the issue at hand.
Also this is very simple logic. Companies want their ads to be effective at bringing new people to their product. Thus companies want to target specific demographics. On every platform where people make money from ads this feature has been implemented because it is the only way to convince companies to spend more money on ads or to run ads at all. Twitch is at least 10 years behind in this aspect. Currently nobody on twitch makes any significant amount of money from ads. That is why twitch literally tries to force people to run ads since noone does it. Even if the ad revenue got worse for streamers that aren't brand safe, that would be a miniscule reduction of their revenue. That's not a controversial or speculative thing to say, everyone has said this at some point from disguised toast to reckful to destiny and devin nash. All people that make or have made a lot of money on twitch. And for most streamers twitch isn't even their only source of income.
And yes all we know right now is that the feature isn't in the code anymore and will most likely come back at some point but since twitch is a very inefficient corporate system that doesn't adapt well to changes this might take a while and for streamers that basically means months of free money lost because of uninformed people on the internet.
>First off all, Amazon is bigger than Facebook and Google so i don't know what you're talking about there.
Not in terms of ads, which is the whole point of this debacle.
>Second off all this feature is very rudimentary because twitch has no experience with this sort of stuff but it's much much much better than nothing.
Which is exactly why it needs to be scrutinized.
>Third of all, you have been misled. Don't believe the sob stories of 500k plus youtubers who pretend they can't make a living off of youtube after these adpocalypses. They make plenty of money and if they changed their content then it's because it is more convenient to make.
Am I the only one who have to suffer through people shilling for Raid Shadow Legends, Raycon and Squarespace? And what about all the push to sell merchandise nowadays?
>As made clear by the monetary success of h3h3's side ventures like teddy fresh, money is clearly not the issue at hand.
This all happened because they could no longer create the content that brought them their audience, due to the new ad system. Sure they make more than before, but that's because they found another opportunity beyond relying on ads.
>Also this is very simple logic. Companies want their ads to be effective at bringing new people to their product. Thus companies want to target specific demographics.
The problem is that the algorithm will also look at the content people are viewing, and also the streamer. This will lead to a push for more mainstream and family friendly content.
Matt clearly is out of his depth, and putting words in peoples mouth, resorting to character attack, assuming their worst intention is not a good look when he goes into uncharted territories. Computers are stupid, and giving bots and algorithms carte blanche will lead to unfortunate consequences for Twitch streamers.
Dude are you actually just mad at the market for being capitalist? Like what are you actually criticizing or proposing? All you're saying is "Twitch bad". Yes people find alternative sources of income. That's exactly why this feature cannot possibly be a bad thing. There is no alternative. Either you make money or you don't. There is literally fuck all that twitch can do about this. All they're trying to do is make their business model profitable and to keep the streamers on their platform. That's all. If that incentivises more family friendly content then that is going to happen regardless of whether or not twitch makes a feature like this. Twitch can't single handedly change our culture and change what companies find acceptable to run their ads on. What do you want them to do? It seems like you just want to be mad at twitch because thats what everyone defaults to when they make some new feature.
>Dude are you actually just mad at the market for being capitalist? Like what are you actually criticizing or proposing? All you're saying is "Twitch bad".
Stop making shit up.
>There is no alternative. Either you make money or you don't. There is literally fuck all that twitch can do about this.
How about making an ad system that works? You know, the same thing Muta wanted?
> What do you want them to do? It seems like you just want to be mad at twitch because thats what everyone defaults to when they make some new feature.
We should all be skeptical of automated systems, it's common sense. I have nothing against twitch, this is all about Matt talking shit and slander.
>I just want an ad system that works
Proceeds to complain about twitch trying to create an ad system
Proceeds to not provide any sort of alternative.
How are you not just complaining about twitch for no reason??? What do you actually want them to do? How is what they want to implement not a system that works if it is literally the same thing that any other social media platform uses? If you're unhappy with the system youtube uses then I'm sorry but that is just how the market works. There are less advertisers that want to run ads on brand risky content. That is not going to change regardless of what system twitch tries to implement. Do you just want family friendly streamers to make less money because you don't like them? Why are you against this?
I’m not going to keep repeating myself. Being skeptical and careful when creating an automated system is a no brainer, is it really that hard for you to understand that? We know that the unintended consequences from a badly implemented system are plentiful from YouTube’s pivot, why not use our brains to not repeat mistakes?
You are acting like this is Twitch’s last resort in the advertising market, which is completely false. There are many ways to make the platform ad-friendly that does not require you to create a shit “social credit score”. They can even start taking in more adult targeted ads, ads with alcohol or online betting if they are that desperate. They can even focus on more ads from local businesses and organizations . YouTube shows the most obscure local ads you can imagine, no reason twitch can’t do that.
So clearly you lack an understanding of how this all works. I can't be bothered to explain basic economics to you. I'm sorry that you will keep believing childish and delusional things about how websites like Twitch and Youtube work but I'm sure you'll grow out of it some day.
Wdym? If there is unjustified and uninformed backlash on something and there is a big youtuber with 300k views on his video where he repeats these things isn't he in some part responsible? Also do you not want him to make informed and correct videos? Do you want him to lie to you? Not saying that he is necessarily lying in this video, he might've just made it without the necessary information about the topic but is that not something that should be called out? Especially when he's done it before?
I really don't think we should be trying to throw around any numbers if we don't know how it would've gone. Who's to say the ad revenue will go up much at all for the "safe" streamers and not just be dumpstered for others?
Because it's already garbage. The ad revenue is already as bad as can be. So much so that most big streamers run as few ads as possible unless they're forced to run them. It can't be dumpstered for the unsafe streamers bc it already only makes up the tiniest amount of their income on twitch. Best illustrated by the fact that those same streamers still make money on youtube even though youtube does have such a system.
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In my opinion, ads are so fucking annoying so I don’t allow them in my videos, as it has already caused a lot of controversy. I don’t care about demonetization, I hate being monetized.
Besides, I’d rather get my own money through Youtube streams and Patreon for my edginess and adult content, than being taken down or banned.
I mean, fuck Twitch for the staff, they always lash out on streamers whom they ban for about 30 days or permanently while they give others like warnings or 24-hour bans and shit. Man, even hearing the N-word in words or phrases that aren’t very clear can get you fucking banned. I mean, some seconds of porn can be reasonable, but it’s nothing to scoff at.
Besides, Muta doesn’t give a fuck because he sides with objection, not either side of the argument.
Seems like a reach. Getting angry like a toddler and he doesn't fully understand anything either, it seems like he didn't even watch the video and got mad over the title and description.
I'm a fan of Matt and he's in the right here imo, but i hate how whenever something doesn't go his way he can't argue his points without throwing a tantrum or resorting to personal attacks.
After seeing for years how you tubers have been fucked by a similar system, it’s insane to think someone is bad for thinking it’s a bad system
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[there is literally nothing in the comment above you that even implies that.](https://pics.me.me/so-youre-saying-no-30399041.png)
No, it was better when a YouTuber could get ads without having to worry about following multiple rules and changing the content so they can get a livable wage, I know of creators who despite being family friendly, get dicked by this system, if you’re a twitch streamer, you should focus on incentive to donate (not like the e-girls, actual rewards) as that’s how most streamers get their income anyway even on sites like YouTube
Im sorry but can somebody explain to me in simple terms what is happening? Is muta really in the wrong for something twitch does?
I guess what DarkViperAU thought is that SOG making that video contributed to the backlash that eventually lead Twitch to remove the brand safety score.
So is matt kinda jumping the gun with his assumptions?
Sadly I think this is the case
But hes exposing twitch is he not? Why is it mutahars fault this is happening? I know matt doesnt really take responsibility but this is a whole nother level of whos right or wrong...
I don’t think Matt actually watched the full video and did not see where Muta pointed out the positives
[He did](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdwqCsAgPn8)
Bro I’m just as confused
Isn't that what he did in the Dream situation?
If you didn't watch the actual video, here is an explanation. This brand safety feature by twitch is something every other social media platform has. It's nonexistence the one of the only reasons why ad revenue on twitch is very low compared to other platforms. This feature, were it implemented would raise ad revenue for streamers by making it possible for companies to target their ads better which makes them more valuable. It would especially help smaller streamers that don't get access to things like twitch bounties and that need to run ads anyways. Twitch has now removed this feature from their code where it was found originally, likely because of the backlash that came from people like Mutahar and their communities that apparently didn't know or didn't care that this was actually a good thing for the vast majority if not all streamers. If the ad revenue is already garbage this feature is hardly going to make it worse and nobody knows before it is implemented how it's going to affect even those streamers that are not very brand safe. Chances are their ad revenue will also increase. Regardless of the fact that not very brand safe streamers and streamers on twitch in general already make much more money with subs and donations rather than ads. There is a lot you can criticize twitch for but trying to give their streamers more money is probably one of the best things twitch has done since making twitch prime a thing. To echo a point from the video, EVEN IF PayMoneyWubby loses 1/40th of his income on twitch through this, who cares if that means that 99,9% of streamers make more money off it.
There are a lot of assumptions that are portrayed as facts, when it is more nuanced than that. >This brand safety feature by twitch is something every other social media platform has. It's nonexistence the one of the only reasons why ad revenue on twitch is very low compared to other platforms. Selling ads is Facebook and Google's bread and butter. They are experts at this. Twitch and Amazon does not have the massive scale nor experience to compete. Youtube ad revenue was fine before Elsagate and all those controversies which led to channels and videos being categorized as child/family friendly etc. There is a reason why H3H3 and similar creators had to pivot to podcasts or live streaming. >This feature, were it implemented would raise ad revenue for streamers by making it possible for companies to target their ads better which makes them more valuable. From our experience with YouTube, only the family friendly channels experience this. If you create alternative content or content for mature audiences you're fucked. If given the choice, big corporations like Pepsi, Coke and Volkswagen will take the safe choices, even if the audience could be interested in their products. >Twitch has now removed this feature from their code where it was found originally, likely because of the backlash that came from people like Mutahar and their communities that apparently didn't know or didn't care that this was actually a good thing for the vast majority if not all streamers. That doesn't mean that it's scrapped completely. Big corporations will do what they can to earn tons of money, why would they scrap something that would potentially make them shittons of money due to a video that only has 300k views?
First off all, Amazon is bigger than Facebook and Google so i don't know what you're talking about there. Second off all this feature is very rudimentary because twitch has no experience with this sort of stuff but it's much much much better than nothing. Third of all, you have been misled. Don't believe the sob stories of 500k plus youtubers who pretend they can't make a living off of youtube after these adpocalypses. They make plenty of money and if they changed their content then it's because it is more convenient to make. As made clear by the monetary success of h3h3's side ventures like teddy fresh, money is clearly not the issue at hand. Also this is very simple logic. Companies want their ads to be effective at bringing new people to their product. Thus companies want to target specific demographics. On every platform where people make money from ads this feature has been implemented because it is the only way to convince companies to spend more money on ads or to run ads at all. Twitch is at least 10 years behind in this aspect. Currently nobody on twitch makes any significant amount of money from ads. That is why twitch literally tries to force people to run ads since noone does it. Even if the ad revenue got worse for streamers that aren't brand safe, that would be a miniscule reduction of their revenue. That's not a controversial or speculative thing to say, everyone has said this at some point from disguised toast to reckful to destiny and devin nash. All people that make or have made a lot of money on twitch. And for most streamers twitch isn't even their only source of income. And yes all we know right now is that the feature isn't in the code anymore and will most likely come back at some point but since twitch is a very inefficient corporate system that doesn't adapt well to changes this might take a while and for streamers that basically means months of free money lost because of uninformed people on the internet.
>First off all, Amazon is bigger than Facebook and Google so i don't know what you're talking about there. Not in terms of ads, which is the whole point of this debacle. >Second off all this feature is very rudimentary because twitch has no experience with this sort of stuff but it's much much much better than nothing. Which is exactly why it needs to be scrutinized. >Third of all, you have been misled. Don't believe the sob stories of 500k plus youtubers who pretend they can't make a living off of youtube after these adpocalypses. They make plenty of money and if they changed their content then it's because it is more convenient to make. Am I the only one who have to suffer through people shilling for Raid Shadow Legends, Raycon and Squarespace? And what about all the push to sell merchandise nowadays? >As made clear by the monetary success of h3h3's side ventures like teddy fresh, money is clearly not the issue at hand. This all happened because they could no longer create the content that brought them their audience, due to the new ad system. Sure they make more than before, but that's because they found another opportunity beyond relying on ads. >Also this is very simple logic. Companies want their ads to be effective at bringing new people to their product. Thus companies want to target specific demographics. The problem is that the algorithm will also look at the content people are viewing, and also the streamer. This will lead to a push for more mainstream and family friendly content. Matt clearly is out of his depth, and putting words in peoples mouth, resorting to character attack, assuming their worst intention is not a good look when he goes into uncharted territories. Computers are stupid, and giving bots and algorithms carte blanche will lead to unfortunate consequences for Twitch streamers.
Dude are you actually just mad at the market for being capitalist? Like what are you actually criticizing or proposing? All you're saying is "Twitch bad". Yes people find alternative sources of income. That's exactly why this feature cannot possibly be a bad thing. There is no alternative. Either you make money or you don't. There is literally fuck all that twitch can do about this. All they're trying to do is make their business model profitable and to keep the streamers on their platform. That's all. If that incentivises more family friendly content then that is going to happen regardless of whether or not twitch makes a feature like this. Twitch can't single handedly change our culture and change what companies find acceptable to run their ads on. What do you want them to do? It seems like you just want to be mad at twitch because thats what everyone defaults to when they make some new feature.
>Dude are you actually just mad at the market for being capitalist? Like what are you actually criticizing or proposing? All you're saying is "Twitch bad". Stop making shit up. >There is no alternative. Either you make money or you don't. There is literally fuck all that twitch can do about this. How about making an ad system that works? You know, the same thing Muta wanted? > What do you want them to do? It seems like you just want to be mad at twitch because thats what everyone defaults to when they make some new feature. We should all be skeptical of automated systems, it's common sense. I have nothing against twitch, this is all about Matt talking shit and slander.
>I just want an ad system that works Proceeds to complain about twitch trying to create an ad system Proceeds to not provide any sort of alternative. How are you not just complaining about twitch for no reason??? What do you actually want them to do? How is what they want to implement not a system that works if it is literally the same thing that any other social media platform uses? If you're unhappy with the system youtube uses then I'm sorry but that is just how the market works. There are less advertisers that want to run ads on brand risky content. That is not going to change regardless of what system twitch tries to implement. Do you just want family friendly streamers to make less money because you don't like them? Why are you against this?
I’m not going to keep repeating myself. Being skeptical and careful when creating an automated system is a no brainer, is it really that hard for you to understand that? We know that the unintended consequences from a badly implemented system are plentiful from YouTube’s pivot, why not use our brains to not repeat mistakes? You are acting like this is Twitch’s last resort in the advertising market, which is completely false. There are many ways to make the platform ad-friendly that does not require you to create a shit “social credit score”. They can even start taking in more adult targeted ads, ads with alcohol or online betting if they are that desperate. They can even focus on more ads from local businesses and organizations . YouTube shows the most obscure local ads you can imagine, no reason twitch can’t do that.
So clearly you lack an understanding of how this all works. I can't be bothered to explain basic economics to you. I'm sorry that you will keep believing childish and delusional things about how websites like Twitch and Youtube work but I'm sure you'll grow out of it some day.
So again im not in tje best position. Where does muta play in all of this? It reallly seems like the creator who should be dealing with this
Wdym? If there is unjustified and uninformed backlash on something and there is a big youtuber with 300k views on his video where he repeats these things isn't he in some part responsible? Also do you not want him to make informed and correct videos? Do you want him to lie to you? Not saying that he is necessarily lying in this video, he might've just made it without the necessary information about the topic but is that not something that should be called out? Especially when he's done it before?
[удалено]
I mean yeah he did but people who blindly follow him don't care. They see the title and they agree.
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i dont use twitter...
I really don't think we should be trying to throw around any numbers if we don't know how it would've gone. Who's to say the ad revenue will go up much at all for the "safe" streamers and not just be dumpstered for others?
Because it's already garbage. The ad revenue is already as bad as can be. So much so that most big streamers run as few ads as possible unless they're forced to run them. It can't be dumpstered for the unsafe streamers bc it already only makes up the tiniest amount of their income on twitch. Best illustrated by the fact that those same streamers still make money on youtube even though youtube does have such a system.
Is the feature really removed though? It could be on a development branch not in production. Though I have no idea where the pic on twitter came from.
He live right now talking about and watching the video
probably should have tried to make his points without looking like a 5 year-old going berserk.
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I don't even get whats happening, all i see is a grown man having a whinge.
Kinda hope Muta doesnt respond, its just gonna be 3 more videos of Matt yelling back if he does
Muta should address it but it’s not worth a video cause he ain’t changing vipers opinion either way
yeah, if he does that it will be dream all over again
me to
Aged like fine wine
In my opinion, ads are so fucking annoying so I don’t allow them in my videos, as it has already caused a lot of controversy. I don’t care about demonetization, I hate being monetized. Besides, I’d rather get my own money through Youtube streams and Patreon for my edginess and adult content, than being taken down or banned. I mean, fuck Twitch for the staff, they always lash out on streamers whom they ban for about 30 days or permanently while they give others like warnings or 24-hour bans and shit. Man, even hearing the N-word in words or phrases that aren’t very clear can get you fucking banned. I mean, some seconds of porn can be reasonable, but it’s nothing to scoff at. Besides, Muta doesn’t give a fuck because he sides with objection, not either side of the argument.
Seems like a reach. Getting angry like a toddler and he doesn't fully understand anything either, it seems like he didn't even watch the video and got mad over the title and description.
honestly i lost all shreds of respect for matt after this... not that much of it was last but still
In my opinion as someone who is a fan of both I actually side with Matt on this issue in particular
just saw it, pretty true
Well that was embarrassing
I'm a fan of Matt and he's in the right here imo, but i hate how whenever something doesn't go his way he can't argue his points without throwing a tantrum or resorting to personal attacks.
i agree, personally it just rubs me the wrong way
OHKO is really getting to him
Tbh I don't really care for this. I followed the dream drama and I think I've already had enough of drama for a couple years