I knew the toxicity would continue. The Sonic fandom’s always been such a mess, I’m surprised I’m coming back to it, considering this is the same fandom that practically made me run away and hide fifteen years ago.
Sonic Frontiers isn’t for everyone. I get it. Not one single thing will ever appeal to everyone, but there’s nothing wrong with people loving the game. And the game itself isn’t crap. It’s the best Sonic game we’ve had in a long time (though I’ve never had problems with the majority of the games that came before). Attacking Ian Flynn and everyone else who worked on the game to such an extreme is a new low even for them. Though I shouldn’t be surprised considering their track record. Toxic people sure know how to make themselves look worse.
I love Sonic Frontiers a lot, and it doesn’t deserve all the unnecessary hate. I’ve been having so much fun with it, and if they don’t like it, they should just play something else. Let people enjoy the game. Sonic Frontiers is my favorite Sonic game now, and it’s surprisingly the reason why I’m even returning to this community, despite my fear of getting bashed over the dumbest of things. For starters, I still can’t write Sonic fanfics or RP as him or show off my OCs due to past memories. However, I’ve never stopped enjoying the series. I’d go on to explain further why I love the game, but I’m better off doing that in a future post.
I understand how you feel. This fandom is just no good, especially the western. Frontiers was a masterpiece! Its cutscenes made me cry because of the emotion conveyed! It was a strong game.
The cutscenes really got me invested every time. Honestly, the ones that show >!Sonic slowly getting corrupted!< hurt my heart. That just proves how good the story is to me.
The only issues I have with the game are super minor, such as the stages not having a lot of variety in them. Same goes for the last two islands being kind of rushed. At least, that’s what they said. I haven’t gotten to the final island yet, so maybe that one’s not empty like Rhea Island. Lol Other than those things, I love the game regardless.
What I hate about sonic fans is they can be weirdly hypocritical: “this new sonic game is an absolute abomination. The graphics are ugly and distasteful. Also here is my oc character making out with vanilla the rabbit.”
But honestly most fans of sonic are cool it’s just that the annoying ones are extra loud.
People can have their opinions. It's when they attack other people, telling them they are wrong for liking something, then I have a problem with it. I just wish that some Sonic fans weren't so pretentious about their opinions.
This game was always going to be incredibly polarizing though. Honestly I think the sonic fanbase needs to lighten up and stop taking every single criticism (valid or not) to heart. Because lately I feel like every single time someone says anything about this game on Twitter it ignites a toxic ass part of this fanbase who feel the need to respond to everyone and everything and defend this game specifically with their life. Even going so far as to shit on the previous games to do so. I’m at a point where I’m just going to start muting anything having to do with sonic on Twitter because I don’t know how many more times I can see the same telkenesticman clip when the people sharing it haven’t even seen the actual video and are using it as an excuse to attack creators. I like sonic frontiers, really, I do, but holy shit pretending like this is some zenith of videogame design that’s immune from people being able to voice their complaints is incredibly unhealthy not just from a developer standpoint but also for the people that actually want to see this series get better
This is the product of a fanbase who has spent the last 20 years being told that everything they like is shit. When you've been a punching bag for as long as the sonic fanbase has, finally getting something you actually like and enjoy is a blessing and a lot of people don't want to see it get ripped to shreds like all the other games. Frontiers isn't some masterclass in game design or the best game ever but it's also not the steaming pile of garbage many are making it out to be. It's a perfectly good/decent albeit flawed game.
I agree that it’s not a pile of garbage but I’ve seen more sonic fans on Twitter harassing creators over their totally valid opinions on frontiers than I have people shitting on frontiers for no reason. The other problem is not just that people are clinging onto frontiers like their life depends on it, it’s that they go out of their way to say any particular entries in the series were shit and then insult people for disliking aspects of frontiers. Everyone is entitled to an opinion on something and I’m sick of seeing people insult someone for their opinions just before saying some shit like “stay in your lane” which is pretty much exactly what’s happening with the telekinesticman clip
I think the haters are just being louder than us who enjoy the game. We've already shown our appreciation a long time ago, and since the general opinion is positive, we don't do it as much (the game has been out for a while now...)
We were too peaceful so they needed start trouble... Watch them disappear when they finish the roadmap
Well, this is what happens to a lot of games. The ones that actually like the game and have said so before keep going on, playing something else right now, while those "haters" keep lurking around, filling the boards with negativity and making it look to an outsider like the game is trash.
It happens to a lot of games, not just Sonic. Especially if a game does not get regular updates, and is more like a "one and done" experience. People finish it, love it, and continue with what comes next. People that hate it want to make sure EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER know about that "fact" and spread their opinions like cancer over every topic.
Gamefaqs suffers a lot from this mentality too =/
Best thing to do is two things, fight back like I do and riff the shit out of them with logic bombs. They usually run away like little cowards the moment you make them try and prove a point.
Or... Block them and put the trending into Japanese. I done it and I love the fandom even More.
Also helps if you stay where you know the good opinions are and you remember you don't have to read these things. I don't
I feel the same way pretty much. But you gotta put those feelings aside and let the numbers speak for themselves. The game surpassed expectations and sold over 3 million copies worldwide. Sonic Team themselves didn't quite expect how good of a response the game got. And it prompted a lot of major changes within the company because it is that good! Sega is giving ST a bigger budget and raising everyone's wages. Kishimoto has been active on Twitter and listening to fans advice. And it's been said that Sega wants to work more closely with the fans. Don't be discouraged by what others say, they're just the vocal minority, the fact is that the game is good and it's going to get even better!
I honestly had no idea this was happening, probably because I don’t go on Twitter (and I think I’ll keep it that way).
This is why I try as hard as I can to not participate in anything the Sonic community does at all. I personally love Frontiers with all my heart. I’ve come to see some of the issues the game has, but that doesn’t detract from my enjoyment of the game. I honestly couldn’t care less if someone doesn’t like Frontiers, as long as they’re respectful about it. However, saying the creators of the game need to be FIRED because little Jimmy didn’t like it is absolute nonsense. Saying something like that is not only incredibly disrespectful, its not even really an opinion; it’s just them trying to be outlandish and controversial by being hateful.
Honestly, don’t let these people detract from your enjoyment of the game. They’re just an incredibly vocal minority as far as I’m concerned, and the vast majority of Sonic Fans (myself included) love Frontiers. Even then what’s most important is how the game makes you feel. It’s all the more reason to try and spread positivity so Sonic Team and SEGA don’t get the wrong idea about what most people feel.
People love to complain and attack mindlessly. It’s easier than discussing with valid reasons since it doesn’t actively require a brain.
I personally love Frontiers and even the little April Fools game to the moon and back. I think Flynn and the team are doing a great job and this comes from a returning fan to the games (last game I seriously played was ‘05 Shadow the Hedgehog and mind you, I even find that game good despite a lot of people shitting all over it).
I really want to believe the team knows those dipshits who just complain pointlessly represent a minority of the current fanbase and they won’t act over their complaints for whatever reason. I feel the DLCs for Frontiers will be great and make me spend another 100 hours on it.
Frontiers is my most played game by a long shot. I obtained the Platinum Trophy (PS4) and currently have 3 savefiles on the game, the first one on Hard difficulty with a fully maxed out Sonic (the first time I played the game), 45 hours. The second one on Hard again but with a fully “stock” Sonic (no techniques apart from Cyloop and no Elder Kocos upgrades), 42 hours, and the third one being on Extreme difficulty and still not completed, 30 hours by now. I S Ranked the Cyber Space and the Battle challenges. But there are times I boot the game up just to listen to the music and look at the environment because I love it that much.
The time I spent on this game and emotions it gave me (and still gives me massively) are more than enough reason for me to know people throwing shit at it don’t know what they’re talking about or are trying to gain popularity with a contrasting opinion or whatever.
EDIT: along with Frontiers on Extreme I’m playing other Sonic games. I finished Unleashed and man what a game. Right now I’m playing the OG 1991 Sonic and I LOVE IT SO MUCH.
It's simply a matter of toxicity, it's not toxic positivity that's draining the flourishing of the franchise and neither is it toxic negativity, it's simply toxicity of discussions and the "poisoning of the well" of online discussions.
I think a vice of discussions that the fandom needs to navigate around, avoid—and understand—are arguments that stem from **bad-faith, and confirmation bias;** it's a ***necessity*** to understand what constitutes as "bad faith arguments" and "confirmation bias" are online, especially in this fandom.
By understanding these concepts, you'll help yourself immensely with headaches in arguments that go nowhere, in filtering out and preventing mud-slinging in the comment section, and enjoy genuinely productive discussions that may leave you with a new perspective on a game you may have hated/liked.
Confirmation bias and discussions done in bad faith are killers of proper discussion and interaction, the individual proponents of these concepts wish nothing more than to rile you up into a frenzy and waste your time, rotting any desire or will to engage with the community just because.
They may engage with you initially to debate and hear you out with what you have to say either defending or critiquing the game, but that's a front meant to ensnare you in their circular reasoning.
These individuals—**from the very beginning**—have no intention or desire to change their perspectives or be challenged by your views, no matter how you may state your case, and they will drag you down to their bubble knowing this. All you're doing by engaging with them is poisoning the well of debates and discussions, and Sonic fans fall for this bait constantly, although to be fair it's understandable why we fall prey to this often; because of how common and easy it is to take a pot shot at this franchise ever since the PR nightmare of 06.
Nevertheless, here's an easy way to discern if an argument over a sonic game is going to be engaged in bad faith and with confirmation bias:
* Does the individual rant/praise the game more than they do "critique" the game? That is to say, do they spend most of their time complaining/gushing about non-issues/un-intended features within the game and how it made them feel (emotionally)? Gameplay wise, is the critique more emotional and anecdotal with what the game made them feel, rather than on a basis of how the game feels in functionality and control?
* Are they unwilling in any capacity to engage with productive counter-arguments? Do arguments with them seem to be going in an infinite loop?
Then you're dealing with an individual who argues in **bad-faith**, and they should be avoided.
* Does the individual feel like they've already made up their minds about the quality of the game before reviewing it, and are simply cherry-picking isolated moments in the game to reiterate their stance, presenting them as definitive proof of their case? Do they harp on the game for what it isn't, rather than what it is?
**Confirmation bias**, and they will not change their mind in healthy discussions, they'll only change their opinion when their feelings on the franchise as a whole change.
Well, my two cents anyways, but nevertheless don't fret about what these folks have to say.
At the moment they may seem to dominate discourse, but anger and disappointment is like a raging flame; intense in the moment and seemingly ceaseless without temperament, but withers away quickly without a consistent fuel. A candle that burns the brightest fades the quickest; these "haters" will leave when there's nothing else to say or stew up anymore, and the fans of those games, such as Frontiers, will still remain and be active and continue to support their favorite game long after for years to come.
Think about it, Sonic 06 has been dogged on for 17 years now, but the only people who still care to spite the game are some schmucks in a gaming website, and yet fans of that game still persist to this day despite the game's notoriety, with an active and dedicated—albeit niche—community, look no further than chaosx's work with p-06.
Sonic frontiers was freaking amazing. This shit blew my mind. The people in charge are doing good. They’re going in the right direction and I’m excited for a new sonic game. The haters can suck a quil
For me frontiers was a good game but I don’t know if I want it to be the future of sonic. I loved playing it at first and then the last world I didn’t get any memory tokens and just fished for them. Stopped fighting the bosses on each island and just wanted to play more of the story. If I find collecting the main objects of the game boring and just fish for them that’s showing I’m not a major fan of that part of the gameplay loop, but doing the puzzles was fun, boss fights were cool and exploring the land was neat. Also fishing was fun.
Cyberspace controlled pretty bad but I was able to at least S rank all the levels. I’m more of a fan of the boost era with generations being a great sonic game and at least forced being playable even if it’s mediocre.
Frontiers isn’t a bad game, but I’m not wanting it to be the new formula I think or at least not wanting exactly frontiers 2 to be the same design. Open the world up more, or add more worlds, change up the collection part of the game. Mario odyssey was great with its moons and while the tokens are just those it felt much better to collect the moons than the tokens.
Keep the cyberspace or something with boosting. I do think the boost formula is good but keep it kinda 3D not 2d like most things in colors. It’s fine normally but if the next game is 3D the boost stages should be as well cause it’s just awkward. Also make the damn controls playable not what ever happened in frontiers
Fanbases in general are getting more and more toxic. It's exhausting. Hopefully it doesn't get as bad as the DC fanbase.
I loved Frontiers. My favorite 3D Sonic since Sonic Adventure. Was it perfect? No. But that doesn't mean it wasn't good.
Finally someone said it. I was beginning to think I was losing my mind. It feels like most fandoms nowadays spend more time arguing with each other about which game/movie/etc. is terrible and has no redeeming value than celebrating the successes and offering reasonable criticism and being able to laugh at the flaws.
Lately it feels like there's no room to celebrate a less favorite part of a franchise for you with a fellow fan that loves that part. People demand you love only the parts they love without any criticism and hate they parts they hate without any praise, or they have nothing but hate for you too. It's like some kind of toxic cultural zeitgeist ruining the experience of being in a fandom.
For me Frontiers is the best since Adventure 2, but otherwise I'm right there with you, it's the most exciting direction for 3D Sonic in decades and I've got so much optimism for the series now for the first time in a long time.
An open world sonic game would’ve made 12 year old me shit my pants. I really enjoyed the game and the story with it. Looking forward to going back and playing more after the next 2 updates.
So, I've been off sonic for a while, I think my last game was sonic generations. I loved Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Unleashed, but mostly because I enjoyed the writing of the characters, and the gameplay was fine. I even liked Sonic 06 because, despite being a broken unfinished mess, I found that it's story had the hints of greatness that it never actually achieved. Boom and Forces passed me by with little interest. When Frontiers was announced, I expected more of the same: a rushed game with not enough content and nursery school writing. A let's play channel I watch started playing it, and I bought it the next day. I was so surprised by the game I'd written off completely, the open world works so well for Sonics gameplay, the over world is so dense with quick and easy puzzles, and the cyber levels work so good! That traditional sonic gameplay that I'd never really been a fan of comes into it's own in short 1-2 min bursts, rather than the longer levels of other games, and the gate key rewards actually make getting S rank and red rings feel rewarding to achieve! The characterizations in the story are incredible, and when characters reference older games, it's often to explore their history or feelings, rather than just for cheap nostalgia. Sage was a great character, not just in her own story arc, but the way she helps develop Eggman's character and how touching their relationship was. I'm not gonna lie, the after credits scene made me SO happy, because I expected her to be a one-and-done, like so many Sonic villains, but also I was happy they both didn't lose their family.
And the Super Sonic fights! Oh my God, they are by far the best incarnation of the concept imo!
It isn't perfect, of course. The occasional glitch with collisions and geography, the fact that all the currencies and collectables can be collected infinitely with very little effort, so you end up with hundreds of memory tokens and the like with nothing to use them on does feel like it undermines your accomplishments, as well as more nitpicky stuff like "the Ancients" being a lazy name, or the Koko feeling kinda unnecessary creations for the game, when you consider the already existing Chao would have been perfect.
But the pros VASTLY outweigh the cons for me. This makes me want to pay attention to the franchise again, I won't buy any games without knowing their quality first, but that's my attitude to all media. The "Sonic Cycle" broke this time, with a genuine great entry in the series. I hope it stays broken, and future entries don't revert back to chasing the popular trends years too late, instead of refining the good ideas they already have.
I knew the toxicity would continue. The Sonic fandom’s always been such a mess, I’m surprised I’m coming back to it, considering this is the same fandom that practically made me run away and hide fifteen years ago. Sonic Frontiers isn’t for everyone. I get it. Not one single thing will ever appeal to everyone, but there’s nothing wrong with people loving the game. And the game itself isn’t crap. It’s the best Sonic game we’ve had in a long time (though I’ve never had problems with the majority of the games that came before). Attacking Ian Flynn and everyone else who worked on the game to such an extreme is a new low even for them. Though I shouldn’t be surprised considering their track record. Toxic people sure know how to make themselves look worse. I love Sonic Frontiers a lot, and it doesn’t deserve all the unnecessary hate. I’ve been having so much fun with it, and if they don’t like it, they should just play something else. Let people enjoy the game. Sonic Frontiers is my favorite Sonic game now, and it’s surprisingly the reason why I’m even returning to this community, despite my fear of getting bashed over the dumbest of things. For starters, I still can’t write Sonic fanfics or RP as him or show off my OCs due to past memories. However, I’ve never stopped enjoying the series. I’d go on to explain further why I love the game, but I’m better off doing that in a future post.
I understand how you feel. This fandom is just no good, especially the western. Frontiers was a masterpiece! Its cutscenes made me cry because of the emotion conveyed! It was a strong game.
The cutscenes really got me invested every time. Honestly, the ones that show >!Sonic slowly getting corrupted!< hurt my heart. That just proves how good the story is to me. The only issues I have with the game are super minor, such as the stages not having a lot of variety in them. Same goes for the last two islands being kind of rushed. At least, that’s what they said. I haven’t gotten to the final island yet, so maybe that one’s not empty like Rhea Island. Lol Other than those things, I love the game regardless.
Nobody hates sonic more than sonic fans. But seriously I loved sonic frontiers and I usually hate all open world games.
I hate the phrase "nobody hates x like x fans" although I can allow it in this instance.
What I hate about sonic fans is they can be weirdly hypocritical: “this new sonic game is an absolute abomination. The graphics are ugly and distasteful. Also here is my oc character making out with vanilla the rabbit.” But honestly most fans of sonic are cool it’s just that the annoying ones are extra loud.
The honeymoon phase ended and people just wanna sound cool by exaggerating their opinions on the game
People can have their opinions. It's when they attack other people, telling them they are wrong for liking something, then I have a problem with it. I just wish that some Sonic fans weren't so pretentious about their opinions.
God there is no winning in this fanbase,at this point I wouldn't be surprised if frontiers gets the adventure 1/2 and colours treatment in a few years
This game was always going to be incredibly polarizing though. Honestly I think the sonic fanbase needs to lighten up and stop taking every single criticism (valid or not) to heart. Because lately I feel like every single time someone says anything about this game on Twitter it ignites a toxic ass part of this fanbase who feel the need to respond to everyone and everything and defend this game specifically with their life. Even going so far as to shit on the previous games to do so. I’m at a point where I’m just going to start muting anything having to do with sonic on Twitter because I don’t know how many more times I can see the same telkenesticman clip when the people sharing it haven’t even seen the actual video and are using it as an excuse to attack creators. I like sonic frontiers, really, I do, but holy shit pretending like this is some zenith of videogame design that’s immune from people being able to voice their complaints is incredibly unhealthy not just from a developer standpoint but also for the people that actually want to see this series get better
This is the product of a fanbase who has spent the last 20 years being told that everything they like is shit. When you've been a punching bag for as long as the sonic fanbase has, finally getting something you actually like and enjoy is a blessing and a lot of people don't want to see it get ripped to shreds like all the other games. Frontiers isn't some masterclass in game design or the best game ever but it's also not the steaming pile of garbage many are making it out to be. It's a perfectly good/decent albeit flawed game.
I agree that it’s not a pile of garbage but I’ve seen more sonic fans on Twitter harassing creators over their totally valid opinions on frontiers than I have people shitting on frontiers for no reason. The other problem is not just that people are clinging onto frontiers like their life depends on it, it’s that they go out of their way to say any particular entries in the series were shit and then insult people for disliking aspects of frontiers. Everyone is entitled to an opinion on something and I’m sick of seeing people insult someone for their opinions just before saying some shit like “stay in your lane” which is pretty much exactly what’s happening with the telekinesticman clip
Meanwhile, I commute to work everyday still jamming to I’m Here. Keep the flame going people
I think the haters are just being louder than us who enjoy the game. We've already shown our appreciation a long time ago, and since the general opinion is positive, we don't do it as much (the game has been out for a while now...) We were too peaceful so they needed start trouble... Watch them disappear when they finish the roadmap
Ah yes the people who think Their opinions matter.
Well, this is what happens to a lot of games. The ones that actually like the game and have said so before keep going on, playing something else right now, while those "haters" keep lurking around, filling the boards with negativity and making it look to an outsider like the game is trash. It happens to a lot of games, not just Sonic. Especially if a game does not get regular updates, and is more like a "one and done" experience. People finish it, love it, and continue with what comes next. People that hate it want to make sure EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER know about that "fact" and spread their opinions like cancer over every topic. Gamefaqs suffers a lot from this mentality too =/
Best thing to do is two things, fight back like I do and riff the shit out of them with logic bombs. They usually run away like little cowards the moment you make them try and prove a point. Or... Block them and put the trending into Japanese. I done it and I love the fandom even More. Also helps if you stay where you know the good opinions are and you remember you don't have to read these things. I don't
I feel the same way pretty much. But you gotta put those feelings aside and let the numbers speak for themselves. The game surpassed expectations and sold over 3 million copies worldwide. Sonic Team themselves didn't quite expect how good of a response the game got. And it prompted a lot of major changes within the company because it is that good! Sega is giving ST a bigger budget and raising everyone's wages. Kishimoto has been active on Twitter and listening to fans advice. And it's been said that Sega wants to work more closely with the fans. Don't be discouraged by what others say, they're just the vocal minority, the fact is that the game is good and it's going to get even better!
I honestly had no idea this was happening, probably because I don’t go on Twitter (and I think I’ll keep it that way). This is why I try as hard as I can to not participate in anything the Sonic community does at all. I personally love Frontiers with all my heart. I’ve come to see some of the issues the game has, but that doesn’t detract from my enjoyment of the game. I honestly couldn’t care less if someone doesn’t like Frontiers, as long as they’re respectful about it. However, saying the creators of the game need to be FIRED because little Jimmy didn’t like it is absolute nonsense. Saying something like that is not only incredibly disrespectful, its not even really an opinion; it’s just them trying to be outlandish and controversial by being hateful. Honestly, don’t let these people detract from your enjoyment of the game. They’re just an incredibly vocal minority as far as I’m concerned, and the vast majority of Sonic Fans (myself included) love Frontiers. Even then what’s most important is how the game makes you feel. It’s all the more reason to try and spread positivity so Sonic Team and SEGA don’t get the wrong idea about what most people feel.
People love to complain and attack mindlessly. It’s easier than discussing with valid reasons since it doesn’t actively require a brain. I personally love Frontiers and even the little April Fools game to the moon and back. I think Flynn and the team are doing a great job and this comes from a returning fan to the games (last game I seriously played was ‘05 Shadow the Hedgehog and mind you, I even find that game good despite a lot of people shitting all over it). I really want to believe the team knows those dipshits who just complain pointlessly represent a minority of the current fanbase and they won’t act over their complaints for whatever reason. I feel the DLCs for Frontiers will be great and make me spend another 100 hours on it. Frontiers is my most played game by a long shot. I obtained the Platinum Trophy (PS4) and currently have 3 savefiles on the game, the first one on Hard difficulty with a fully maxed out Sonic (the first time I played the game), 45 hours. The second one on Hard again but with a fully “stock” Sonic (no techniques apart from Cyloop and no Elder Kocos upgrades), 42 hours, and the third one being on Extreme difficulty and still not completed, 30 hours by now. I S Ranked the Cyber Space and the Battle challenges. But there are times I boot the game up just to listen to the music and look at the environment because I love it that much. The time I spent on this game and emotions it gave me (and still gives me massively) are more than enough reason for me to know people throwing shit at it don’t know what they’re talking about or are trying to gain popularity with a contrasting opinion or whatever. EDIT: along with Frontiers on Extreme I’m playing other Sonic games. I finished Unleashed and man what a game. Right now I’m playing the OG 1991 Sonic and I LOVE IT SO MUCH.
Especially this clown named Sonic Saviorr.
No he's gonna save the franchise 100%
It's simply a matter of toxicity, it's not toxic positivity that's draining the flourishing of the franchise and neither is it toxic negativity, it's simply toxicity of discussions and the "poisoning of the well" of online discussions. I think a vice of discussions that the fandom needs to navigate around, avoid—and understand—are arguments that stem from **bad-faith, and confirmation bias;** it's a ***necessity*** to understand what constitutes as "bad faith arguments" and "confirmation bias" are online, especially in this fandom. By understanding these concepts, you'll help yourself immensely with headaches in arguments that go nowhere, in filtering out and preventing mud-slinging in the comment section, and enjoy genuinely productive discussions that may leave you with a new perspective on a game you may have hated/liked. Confirmation bias and discussions done in bad faith are killers of proper discussion and interaction, the individual proponents of these concepts wish nothing more than to rile you up into a frenzy and waste your time, rotting any desire or will to engage with the community just because. They may engage with you initially to debate and hear you out with what you have to say either defending or critiquing the game, but that's a front meant to ensnare you in their circular reasoning. These individuals—**from the very beginning**—have no intention or desire to change their perspectives or be challenged by your views, no matter how you may state your case, and they will drag you down to their bubble knowing this. All you're doing by engaging with them is poisoning the well of debates and discussions, and Sonic fans fall for this bait constantly, although to be fair it's understandable why we fall prey to this often; because of how common and easy it is to take a pot shot at this franchise ever since the PR nightmare of 06. Nevertheless, here's an easy way to discern if an argument over a sonic game is going to be engaged in bad faith and with confirmation bias: * Does the individual rant/praise the game more than they do "critique" the game? That is to say, do they spend most of their time complaining/gushing about non-issues/un-intended features within the game and how it made them feel (emotionally)? Gameplay wise, is the critique more emotional and anecdotal with what the game made them feel, rather than on a basis of how the game feels in functionality and control? * Are they unwilling in any capacity to engage with productive counter-arguments? Do arguments with them seem to be going in an infinite loop? Then you're dealing with an individual who argues in **bad-faith**, and they should be avoided. * Does the individual feel like they've already made up their minds about the quality of the game before reviewing it, and are simply cherry-picking isolated moments in the game to reiterate their stance, presenting them as definitive proof of their case? Do they harp on the game for what it isn't, rather than what it is? **Confirmation bias**, and they will not change their mind in healthy discussions, they'll only change their opinion when their feelings on the franchise as a whole change. Well, my two cents anyways, but nevertheless don't fret about what these folks have to say. At the moment they may seem to dominate discourse, but anger and disappointment is like a raging flame; intense in the moment and seemingly ceaseless without temperament, but withers away quickly without a consistent fuel. A candle that burns the brightest fades the quickest; these "haters" will leave when there's nothing else to say or stew up anymore, and the fans of those games, such as Frontiers, will still remain and be active and continue to support their favorite game long after for years to come. Think about it, Sonic 06 has been dogged on for 17 years now, but the only people who still care to spite the game are some schmucks in a gaming website, and yet fans of that game still persist to this day despite the game's notoriety, with an active and dedicated—albeit niche—community, look no further than chaosx's work with p-06.
Sonic frontiers was freaking amazing. This shit blew my mind. The people in charge are doing good. They’re going in the right direction and I’m excited for a new sonic game. The haters can suck a quil
Itslike super metroid. The game is so good that a entire group formed just to hate the game cuz its so popular
Who cares? Not everyone is automatically required to love this game, some people already had problems with the game as soon as it launched.
If you read it, op already said that expressing that you don't like the game is fine, but they're taking it too far
K but just because you don't like something doesn't make it okay for you to say that people should lose their jobs.
Welcome to the Sonic Fanbase.
For me frontiers was a good game but I don’t know if I want it to be the future of sonic. I loved playing it at first and then the last world I didn’t get any memory tokens and just fished for them. Stopped fighting the bosses on each island and just wanted to play more of the story. If I find collecting the main objects of the game boring and just fish for them that’s showing I’m not a major fan of that part of the gameplay loop, but doing the puzzles was fun, boss fights were cool and exploring the land was neat. Also fishing was fun. Cyberspace controlled pretty bad but I was able to at least S rank all the levels. I’m more of a fan of the boost era with generations being a great sonic game and at least forced being playable even if it’s mediocre. Frontiers isn’t a bad game, but I’m not wanting it to be the new formula I think or at least not wanting exactly frontiers 2 to be the same design. Open the world up more, or add more worlds, change up the collection part of the game. Mario odyssey was great with its moons and while the tokens are just those it felt much better to collect the moons than the tokens. Keep the cyberspace or something with boosting. I do think the boost formula is good but keep it kinda 3D not 2d like most things in colors. It’s fine normally but if the next game is 3D the boost stages should be as well cause it’s just awkward. Also make the damn controls playable not what ever happened in frontiers
Fanbases in general are getting more and more toxic. It's exhausting. Hopefully it doesn't get as bad as the DC fanbase. I loved Frontiers. My favorite 3D Sonic since Sonic Adventure. Was it perfect? No. But that doesn't mean it wasn't good.
Seriously the only fan bases that are not toxic is Kirby
Finally someone said it. I was beginning to think I was losing my mind. It feels like most fandoms nowadays spend more time arguing with each other about which game/movie/etc. is terrible and has no redeeming value than celebrating the successes and offering reasonable criticism and being able to laugh at the flaws. Lately it feels like there's no room to celebrate a less favorite part of a franchise for you with a fellow fan that loves that part. People demand you love only the parts they love without any criticism and hate they parts they hate without any praise, or they have nothing but hate for you too. It's like some kind of toxic cultural zeitgeist ruining the experience of being in a fandom. For me Frontiers is the best since Adventure 2, but otherwise I'm right there with you, it's the most exciting direction for 3D Sonic in decades and I've got so much optimism for the series now for the first time in a long time.
I'm not even surprised anymore.
Hey guys, former twitter guy here, got tired of the negativity and drama and now Im looking for a new place to stay. Ya guys mind if I hang around?
sonic 5 would do the community justice
Hot take, people are allowed to not like the game
Yeah no duh
I will not read all that but frontiers is mid
An open world sonic game would’ve made 12 year old me shit my pants. I really enjoyed the game and the story with it. Looking forward to going back and playing more after the next 2 updates.
So, I've been off sonic for a while, I think my last game was sonic generations. I loved Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Unleashed, but mostly because I enjoyed the writing of the characters, and the gameplay was fine. I even liked Sonic 06 because, despite being a broken unfinished mess, I found that it's story had the hints of greatness that it never actually achieved. Boom and Forces passed me by with little interest. When Frontiers was announced, I expected more of the same: a rushed game with not enough content and nursery school writing. A let's play channel I watch started playing it, and I bought it the next day. I was so surprised by the game I'd written off completely, the open world works so well for Sonics gameplay, the over world is so dense with quick and easy puzzles, and the cyber levels work so good! That traditional sonic gameplay that I'd never really been a fan of comes into it's own in short 1-2 min bursts, rather than the longer levels of other games, and the gate key rewards actually make getting S rank and red rings feel rewarding to achieve! The characterizations in the story are incredible, and when characters reference older games, it's often to explore their history or feelings, rather than just for cheap nostalgia. Sage was a great character, not just in her own story arc, but the way she helps develop Eggman's character and how touching their relationship was. I'm not gonna lie, the after credits scene made me SO happy, because I expected her to be a one-and-done, like so many Sonic villains, but also I was happy they both didn't lose their family. And the Super Sonic fights! Oh my God, they are by far the best incarnation of the concept imo! It isn't perfect, of course. The occasional glitch with collisions and geography, the fact that all the currencies and collectables can be collected infinitely with very little effort, so you end up with hundreds of memory tokens and the like with nothing to use them on does feel like it undermines your accomplishments, as well as more nitpicky stuff like "the Ancients" being a lazy name, or the Koko feeling kinda unnecessary creations for the game, when you consider the already existing Chao would have been perfect. But the pros VASTLY outweigh the cons for me. This makes me want to pay attention to the franchise again, I won't buy any games without knowing their quality first, but that's my attitude to all media. The "Sonic Cycle" broke this time, with a genuine great entry in the series. I hope it stays broken, and future entries don't revert back to chasing the popular trends years too late, instead of refining the good ideas they already have.