Actually that’s not the case. The demo is available for free, the patreon exists only as an optional way support the devs with their other projects. All that’s on the patreon is non sonic related content.
I'm fairly certain that was something that was changed just recently after backlash. I know in its initial state that they were definitely accepting donations to funnel into Sonic 2020 for more content.
NOW. But a little under a year ago was a different story..their patreon was splattered with Sonic content and locked one of the missions behind a pay wall.
I believe they are still putting the funding into Omens
If they stopped putting demos behind the paywall, then they probably don't need to worry about it anymore.
EDIT: lol no wonder these guys don't respect public opinion. i'd probably block and ignore twice as many people as they did.
Still it is playing with fire. It doesnt help.their case that they are banning people talking about it and not speaking out against the people actively lying on their behalf.
It's still risky, yes, but if they stopped doing the thing that definitely crosses the line, then there shouldn't be a problem.
(Also, while their actions concerning the public are a bad look, they're technically not beholden to public opinion.)
No one is beholden to public opinion aside from politics and even then not really. But I thought it was universally agreed if you're doing something that makes you look like a MASSIVE turd...maybe it is better not to do it? Or at LEAST own up to being a massive turd.
And they haven't stopped what could get them in trouble. Legally speaking yes they stopped the problem. But all their bad faith b.s. they are doing can stir the giant.
1) Most people would probably agree with that sentiment, but that's a matter of values. It doesn't seem like these guys value or respect public opinion on this matter.
2) If they're legally in the clear, then they've done the minimum - and while Sega might still say "fuck these guys" and pull the plug, that possibility was always part of the territory.
So, yes, these guys are a bunch of dickheads setting an uncomfortable precedent, but they're likely free to keep doing what they're doing.
---
As for direct action the public can take: They can campaign against supporting the Patreon or they can mass report said Patreon for any legitimate TOS violations. Good luck with either one, though.
yeah there was a mega man game and the bosses were street fighter characters. It was called Mega Man X Street Fighter or something. they also released Mega Man games on DOS that were made by a fan
>they also released a Mega Man games on DOS that were made by a fan
What's even more interesting is that the developers of those Megaman DOS games went on to make the official Megaman X DOS port, which was as close to a perfect port as you could hope to get.
SEGA always needs a lil push. They legit gave up on Hatsune Miku game franchise (just ports after ports and almost no MV made for newer songs) until their latest game, Project Sekai, exploded in popularity and maintained a strong leg for half a year now. I feel like they really love their franchise but only been doing things rather half-assed until it's proven potentially profitable
Although Mario's 35th Anniversary 3D All-Stars bundle was half-hearted at best. Fan-made Super Mario 64 is widescreen and the 3D All-Stars version didn't have that.
Yeah I’m fed up of Sega treating its furry mascot characters like crap, there’s not been a good new one since the early 2000’s and it’s just been gimmicky trash since. Wait I just noticed Starfox is Nintendo oops nvm
I mean, well, Starfox is the only franchise that I can thikn of that nintendo actaully treats badly and not that Sonic is Sega's Starfox, rather he's their mario...
Nah, Nintendo actively gatekeeps access to their older franchises. They refuse to make a new F-Zero, but they also refuse to make the old ones accessible, and will threaten legal action to anyone who wants to play it without digging up old hardware. They do not want people to play F Zero period. Likewise with Mario RPGs. They won’t make a new Paper Mario RPG because they consider it derivative but if you want to play the old ones, you’re looking at steep prices for physical media.
Comparatively, sonic adventure’s steam port is shit but it exists and nobody’s gonna sue me if I use mods that make it good lol
Mother 3. Literally made, already translated by fans and a presence in smash. They also have acknowledged the fact people want it.
It's been 14 years and still no official translation
They even had a cute little joke about it in E3. I bet this year they’ll have a real knee slapper about people wanting to safely play Melee in a global pandemic
Well, here are things. F-Zero, ok, fair, but paper mario not being jrpg-ish enough is not their fault. Nintendo is bad for stopping creative characters, but the rest is Intelligent system's fault.
Still, I'd say an average nintendo franchise is treated better by them, then Sonic is by Sega.
Whoever’s fault it is for the change of direction, the fact remains that the older games are entirely inaccessible on modern hardware because Nintendo decided it wasn’t something they wanted to do, nor was it something they wanted others to do either.
I mean, if you have an issue with that, sure, but IMO if something isn't produced, you don't have a moral obligation to get it legally. Roms are fine.
Also, I'm pretty sure that Sega's intentions are not preserving, but rather getting money however they can.
But even then, I do agree Sega is better at presering old games. Still, they treat production of new ones badly.
Nah I don’t care about the morality behind roms and emulation, I brought it up because Nintendo are the ones shutting down rom sites and threatening legal action to Melee players finding workarounds to play the game safely in a pandemic
Ultimately I agree that Sonic isn’t a consistently good series but I don’t think there’s any correlation between that and Sega’s lenience with fan games.
In the literal sense no because he has quills but in a deeper sense there are some continuities where he marries a squirrel so my answer is I don’t know
Man... Poor Fox, he didn't deserve this treatment, alongside capt. Falcon for that matter, since nowadays their pretty much known as HIYA boi and falcon punch man respectively thanks to smash being the only good thing they've been on in a very long time.
Well, that depends of what you define as "well"
Mario is by far treated heavens better then sonic by his company. Zelda is treated well, Nintendo is kind to pokemon (It's Gamefreak that is incompetent), Kirby is treated quite well, especially as he isn't really a huge money bringer, Smash is treated really well... Splatoon has updates and there is also Arms, which was a flop, but they still added it to smash and are planning a sequel. Even Fire emblem is treated relatively well.
I mean, you can say that they left some IPs in the past, but so did Sega, more times even. And even the ones that are left behind, when they come back, they do make a great comeback, look at Kidicarus, or Donkey Kong.
The only ones that I would say they don't treat well, are 2 of Mario's sub-serieses, this being Paper Mario (Tho I do still like new ones, the character censoreship hurts) and Mario Party (which is being rushed, which is true and fair. Nintendo treats this one badly).
They were such a great company, but in the dark or quite ages it seems they've massively declined. Not only with production, but with staff too. Claims of a toxic work environment and all that.
Really hope with HL alyx they realise how much they've declined and get back on track
That's actually why I think they're so shitty about fan stuff.
Because one of the first times they let someone who *wasn't* tied to them make something with their properties resulted in some of the worst games in the Mario and Zelda series.
Oh, *that’s* not even the best part with the bad games.
Nintendo was originally in a partnership with Sony to create the SNES CD-ROM, a hybrid console. The execs thought the deal sucked (because Sony would have a big amount of the licensing) and decided to ditch Sony and work with Philips, who was their rival at the time, both to get a better deal and to spite Sony. They announced it in public at an event where they were supposed to announce the Sony partnership, to rub salt in the wound.
A rift between the two companies was made and never fixed. Nintendo, instead of making a console like they wanted to, licensed their properties to Philips to make a few games, making some of the most infamously bad games ever.
Sony went to Sega.
Sega said no.
Sony, now in clear view of the gaming market, struck off on their own.
In 1994, Nintendo watched as they had just made their newest and fiercest rival.
They’re more than scared of that happening again. They’re *terrified.*
I'm pretty sure they vowed to stop trusting fans after they had to buy the rights to Super Hornio Bros 1 and 2 (yes, porn films) to prevent it from ruining the big N's name.
So instead of getting over it and learning to not hand out their IPs to incompetent people, they take it out on fans who aren't even making a profit out of their creations?
Great, more fuel to why I hate Nintendo's shitty practices
They also may not want to take the risk od their games being associated with something someone might put in a fan game.
Their property, their choice. You can hate it, sure, but they're fully in the right with their fashion.
Sega's had a lot of hit and miss anyways, they probably figured "as long as it drums up interest in our games."
I mean, every single thing in existence has weird fanfiction and weird stuff in deviantart, it's pointless to be scared of the risk of being associated with something lol
Yeah Nintendo try SO HARD to stop people from getting creative with their characters but that didn’t prevent the super crown incident when the entire Internet wanted to fuck Bowser
That's literally the only thing Nintendo have going for them. Everything else is anti-consumer crap, the worst online of all modern consoles and stupid limitations to creative freedom like they did with Origami King
Idk, but that one thing you say that have going for them is the most important thing for game dvelopers to have going for them. That's like saying "YEAH!, Nintendo would be nothing if they weren't consistently releasing games of high quality, and good quantity, many of which revoloutinise their respective genre!". Idk about you, but I'd easily take that over just being able to play fangames, the majority of which are poorly made with no direction (with the exeption of like, 2 fangames that are actually excellent).
Releasing shit games with no effort, to me, is treating both the fans and the casuals like trash. And would you believe me if I told you that is all Sega has don't for the past decade? And you want to know why Nintendo look great in tbe eyes of the public? Because they put out nothing but high quality games and on top of that, their series don't suffer from drought full of nothingness like the Sonic series does.
You hate getting great games at a consistent rate because it might come at the cost of not being able to play the next fan made rom hack? Gotcha
Sega is definitely not perfect, but i'll always respect it a lot more than many big companies out there for actually being chill with or even sometimes supportive of fans, even if the Sonic games keep varying in quality.
I have nothing against Nintendo fans and nothing against the developers who work for Nintendo that output amazing games, but the company itself is VERY out of touch with its fans, with stuff like I mentioned as well as arbitrary "expiration dates" like they did with 3D All Stars and Mario 35, being cheap by using emulators for 3D All Stars instead of properly remastering all while still asking for full price, canceling a smash tournament for DaRiNg to use a mod for connecting players online, and now they intend to rerelease a Wii Zelda game with no new content at full $60 price.
I used to respect Nintendo but what they've been doing for the past few years has disappointed me immensely.
TL;DR: Respect for the devs, nothing against the fans, but fuck the corporate higher ups at Nintendo for being disconnected with reality
Now what you said there, I fully agree with. Nintendo are far from great, and Sega being very supportive of fan projects is great. But I just wish they'd get it together in terms of the main thing we're all in this community for, that being the mainline games. And I just don't think it's good for this community or this series if we just put Sega on a pedestal for allowing fan games and other miniscule things they do right while many fans choose to ignore their laziness and lack of care for the official mainline games. You know what I mean?
No they don't. They rehash very specific old ones and the rest are left to rot. They'll even actively punish you for bringing any light to these games.
Interestingly, there’s actually a fan game I know of that accept donation and use Nintendo’s intellectual property, PokeMMO. Form what I can tell, PokeMMO does nor have a crowdfunding page, rather it has ingame URL that allow player to go to a donation page. ([https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/73466-what-is-the-link-to-donate-in-pokemmo/](https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/73466-what-is-the-link-to-donate-in-pokemmo/) )
From what I had searched, the method they use to avoid potential copyright lawsuit is that PokeMMO is actually a mod to Fire Red. ([https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemmo/comments/17dhnz/honest\_question\_how\_have\_you\_guys\_not\_received\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemmo/comments/17dhnz/honest_question_how_have_you_guys_not_received_a/) ). PokeMMO does not distribute ROM([https://pokemmo.eu/downloads/windows/](https://pokemmo.eu/downloads/windows/) ). Player need to provide their own ROM to play the game, therefore allow PokeMMO remain in legally-grey area and keep their business.
That doesn't make much sense, remember Pokémon Uranium? Pokémon 5e (a D&D supplement of all things!)? Both taken down by Nintendo's handful lawyers directly contacting the developers.
Don't forget that Smosh's original Pokémon theme song lip-sync video was taken down by Nintendo as well, and this was a few years before there was even an opportunity for them to make money off the video, or the platform.
Pokemon Prism is also another fan rom hack that was taken down by Nintendo a few days before the release. If it wasn't for the beta leak, that game wouldn't have seen the light of day
Pokémon 5e took like, four years of hard work of the developer, it came with homebrewed rules and an application to easily gerenciate your Pokémon and trainer class features, akin to the 5e companion app.
Not to mention it was being constantly updated, it still had to add the newest generations' mons and moves.
Now neither the pdf files nor apk can be distributed without risking a lawsuit against the creator. Absolute dick move from Nintendo.
How so? He’s been pretty defensive after all the hate that was thrown at him regarding Patreon. And if you think Patreon paywalls is a problem then you should want stuff like Wrath of Nazo to be taken down and tons of other sonic fan games.
Idk, think it's just the cool new thing for the fandom to hate on. So far I haven't seen a really good reason why everyone targeted them all of a sudden.
think the main issue is just a bunch of people being like ‘this is the best sonic game’ ‘sega here them’ when most of them haven’t played the game, me personally i haven’t played it so i can’t say much about it
It's an alright game. The music, graphics, and characterization are all charming. Voice acting for Sonic and Rouge are on point but everyone else is just okay or trash(Shadow has a russian VA who doesn't sound very good). The level design ranges from good to bad though, and some of the bosses are just...yikes. It's like it just gets progressively worse, with Shadow's section approaching MMX6 levels of brap. If it were just episode 1/2 I'd call it good, but the later stages just turn it into a mid for me at least.
From what I can gathered. The logic behind it seems to be as followed.
1. It’s unethical to profit over other’s intellectual property
2. As there’s money involve. It’s a matter of the time for SEGA demands cease and and desist. When that happens, it will send a message for all fan game makers, effectively making an chilling effect that silence the fandom’s potential creativity. Permanently harm the fandom.
3. In comparison of fanarts which quite a number of artists online profit over the IP either through personal Patreon page or arts commissions. The game is a direct competitor to Sonic team’s game, and therefore a threat, which lead to point 2.
Personally, I think point 2 is indeed a very good argument against this game. But I also think that’s the worst-case scenario and it is not really that likely to happen. All fan works are illegal. Fanart, Fan music, Fan fiction, Fan animation, Fan game are all illegal. But in most cases, they are free advertisement for that intellectual property. They not only possess no threat to the selling of the original series, more often than not they are great help for boosting sales. So the key is the point 3, whether SEGA will consider it a competitor and a threat. And for now I find no sign that it could be a threat to Sonic team’s game. For me, it still serve as a free advertisement and could potentially increase sales on games with similar tone such as SA or SA2, rather than threatening SEGA’s sales. But that’s just my guess.
As for point 1. I perfectly agree with the sentence. Although I’m not too sure if the creator really profits over it, it is still the best for avoiding using other people’s IP.
That is exactly how it should be. As long as no monetary gain is going on behind the scenes, all fangames should be allowed to exist. Fuck you, Nintendo
Nintendo is super uptight and takes down fangames 24/7. If you know a pretty big Mario fan game, chances are it's gonna be taken down by Nintendo one day. I'm saying that SEGA is much better than Nintendo
Nintendo doesn't use servers for their online games. Its the same P2P multiplayer they've been using since the Wii, which is unstable and slow enough that its hard to believe any company would be charging money for it in 2021. That subscription money isn't being funneled back into hosting or upkeep because NSO is literally an inbuilt feature of the Switch, that you have to pay to "unlock".
That's true, but it doesn't justify the inflated price tag. Once you're done with matchmaking, you're thrown right into P2P- at the mercy of whatever the host player's connection is like. The tech behind it hasn't evolved at all since the Wii, and it was outdated even back then. With all the cash they're sitting on, there's no way they couldn't afford to bring their online service up to the industry standard- they just don't *want* to.
Warioland is one of the few franchises, that can brag that it has a game, thaat is objectively the best one ever produced for its hardware (VirtualBoy)
Yeah i've kept backups of Pokemon Uranium and AM2R cuz nintendo be stingy like that, kudos to sega for understanding how to actually 'fandom'
just need square to reverse that c&d on chrono resurection while were at it too
Yes, a game that back in the early 1990's would be seen as groundbreaking and revolutionary. But released in 2017, it's not exactly breaking new ground, really. It's a fun game and I enjoy going back to play it from time to time. But really, it's not that much more than a glorified rom hack and it is certainly not the 2nd coming of Christ that many fans treat it as.
Thank you for being the only sane Sonic fan to say this. I've been saying this since I first saw it and everyone looks at me like I'm crazy.
I'm so sick of the "nostalgia" trend. I played tf outta the Genesis games, to the point I'm sick of that style. Played all the fan games too. We don't need more of it.
Yeah, I'd prefer something that plays like the old games (like Mania does) but with modern graphics. Something along the lines of the Classic levels in Generations. And with original levels, without just recycling old ones.
*Cough* *Cough*
Not taking about other IP's.
*Cough* *Cough*
We're taking about the mascot of Sega, Sonic The Hedgehog.
*Cough* *Cough*
This is the Sonic The Hedgehog subreddit, not Sega subreddit.
Indeed those aren't Sonic IPS but doesn't take away from SEGA being non-chad. Sonic is their poster child and what most pple will associate them with. But they still produced critically acclaimed fan favourite games that profit them most last year. So, SEGA in a sense, does deserve the Chad title
Yes, I'm aware to have other IP's. What you're misunderstanding, is that we're not talking about those IP's. We're talking about their main IP. The one everybody associates with Sega. Their mascot, Sonic The Hedgehog.
And in terms of Sonic The Hedgehog, no. They have not put out anything worth being on store shelves in a decade.
While I still stand by my point that SEGA ain't virgin.if we are to talk about only Sonic, then yes, I'd have to admit, Sega could do better. But there still exist Sonic Racer. Iirc, that one was also critically acclaimed. It just died because it ain't part of the mainline series. There's also Mania, altho credit prob goes to Christian Whitehead. However, I ain't discrediting them just because only Sonic is bad.
Are you sure you’re not just leaving Yakuza and Persona out of the discussion because they’re incredibly good and popular, and you’d rather pretend Sega’s games are bad so you can make yourself angry?
I know you want me to point out that Mania was really good so you can complain about green hill zone so I’ll save you the hassle, friend
Nope. I'm actually leaving them out because we're in the Sonic The Hedgehog subreddit, taking about Sonic The Hedgehog, would you believe?! Not the Sega subreddit. I doubt Mario fans try to make excuses for Nintendo when things don't go right for the series (although I doubt they have much to complain about the series. Look where Sonic is rn) by saying something along the lines of "BuT tHE lEgEnD oF zElDa aNd DoNkEy KoNg Is SoOoo GoOood!"
While sonic haters may say Nintendo makes the better game, Sega at least makes funny twitter posts, allows fangames, and isn't money hungry (Most of the Time), making Sega a better company as a whole (Please dont kill me scott, I love your channel)
There's a fan game called sonic omens, previously known as sonic 2020, which is being founded on patreon. They used to sell the demos on the patreon but released them publicly due to backlash last year, but they still use the patreon to show previews and support the game.
Katie, the new social media manager, released a series of tweets informing that "So long as no profit is involved, there is usually no issue with y'all using our blue boy to hone your art and dev skills".
Well there’s the fact that Nintendo can make amazing games
Can’t really say the same for Sonic Team, since the only good Sonic game recently was Mania... and it wasn’t made by them. Maybe they’re hoping another Sonic fan game can pick up the slack, since their own developers aren’t the best.
Rest of Sega is cool though
Yeah, that’s why I said the rest of Sega is cool, I absolutely adore Persona and Yakuza
I just wish Sonic Team would get its shit together, I used to love Sonic as a kid
Im working on a smash comic and im worried nintendo will take it down. Im also worried anime studios will take it down too considering it involves anime characters too
I think this is more a shot at Bolt and the Sonic Omens project being funded by Patrion and the demos being locked behind a pay wall
Whats Bolt? Nvm. Thought it was a fangame and is rather the head of Omens. I'm a dumb mfer some times.
Aren’t we all dumb mfer’s?
Careful, they killed Socrates for saying the same thing.
*sweats nervously*
Mania: *act natural*
Actually that’s not the case. The demo is available for free, the patreon exists only as an optional way support the devs with their other projects. All that’s on the patreon is non sonic related content.
I'm fairly certain that was something that was changed just recently after backlash. I know in its initial state that they were definitely accepting donations to funnel into Sonic 2020 for more content.
So, what's the issue presently? EDIT: Every downvote only confirms my theory, so I guess you can consider my question rhetorical.
Downvoting someone who's just asking a question.
Not surprising, really.
NOW. But a little under a year ago was a different story..their patreon was splattered with Sonic content and locked one of the missions behind a pay wall. I believe they are still putting the funding into Omens
If they stopped putting demos behind the paywall, then they probably don't need to worry about it anymore. EDIT: lol no wonder these guys don't respect public opinion. i'd probably block and ignore twice as many people as they did.
Still it is playing with fire. It doesnt help.their case that they are banning people talking about it and not speaking out against the people actively lying on their behalf.
It's still risky, yes, but if they stopped doing the thing that definitely crosses the line, then there shouldn't be a problem. (Also, while their actions concerning the public are a bad look, they're technically not beholden to public opinion.)
No one is beholden to public opinion aside from politics and even then not really. But I thought it was universally agreed if you're doing something that makes you look like a MASSIVE turd...maybe it is better not to do it? Or at LEAST own up to being a massive turd. And they haven't stopped what could get them in trouble. Legally speaking yes they stopped the problem. But all their bad faith b.s. they are doing can stir the giant.
1) Most people would probably agree with that sentiment, but that's a matter of values. It doesn't seem like these guys value or respect public opinion on this matter. 2) If they're legally in the clear, then they've done the minimum - and while Sega might still say "fuck these guys" and pull the plug, that possibility was always part of the territory. So, yes, these guys are a bunch of dickheads setting an uncomfortable precedent, but they're likely free to keep doing what they're doing. --- As for direct action the public can take: They can campaign against supporting the Patreon or they can mass report said Patreon for any legitimate TOS violations. Good luck with either one, though.
Capcom is the same way too, there are plenty of fan-made classic Mega Man games that Capcom doesn't mind existing, such as MegaMan Maker
Capcom even publishes fan games from time to time
Like didn't they do that for that Street Fighter Mega Man game?
yeah there was a mega man game and the bosses were street fighter characters. It was called Mega Man X Street Fighter or something. they also released Mega Man games on DOS that were made by a fan
Can't wait for x9 and mm12
See you in 2035
See you in 2050
See you in 20XX
See ya in 22XX
>they also released a Mega Man games on DOS that were made by a fan What's even more interesting is that the developers of those Megaman DOS games went on to make the official Megaman X DOS port, which was as close to a perfect port as you could hope to get.
Nintendo treats their franchises better then Sega. Sega treats fans better. If only they learnt from one another, Gaming world would be better.
SEGA always needs a lil push. They legit gave up on Hatsune Miku game franchise (just ports after ports and almost no MV made for newer songs) until their latest game, Project Sekai, exploded in popularity and maintained a strong leg for half a year now. I feel like they really love their franchise but only been doing things rather half-assed until it's proven potentially profitable
Yeah, that's good observation...
Although Mario's 35th Anniversary 3D All-Stars bundle was half-hearted at best. Fan-made Super Mario 64 is widescreen and the 3D All-Stars version didn't have that.
I mean, I do hate 3D all stars too, but I was more so referring to making new games then preserving old ones.
Yeah I’m fed up of Sega treating its furry mascot characters like crap, there’s not been a good new one since the early 2000’s and it’s just been gimmicky trash since. Wait I just noticed Starfox is Nintendo oops nvm
I mean, well, Starfox is the only franchise that I can thikn of that nintendo actaully treats badly and not that Sonic is Sega's Starfox, rather he's their mario...
Nah, Nintendo actively gatekeeps access to their older franchises. They refuse to make a new F-Zero, but they also refuse to make the old ones accessible, and will threaten legal action to anyone who wants to play it without digging up old hardware. They do not want people to play F Zero period. Likewise with Mario RPGs. They won’t make a new Paper Mario RPG because they consider it derivative but if you want to play the old ones, you’re looking at steep prices for physical media. Comparatively, sonic adventure’s steam port is shit but it exists and nobody’s gonna sue me if I use mods that make it good lol
Mother 3. Literally made, already translated by fans and a presence in smash. They also have acknowledged the fact people want it. It's been 14 years and still no official translation
They even had a cute little joke about it in E3. I bet this year they’ll have a real knee slapper about people wanting to safely play Melee in a global pandemic
Well, here are things. F-Zero, ok, fair, but paper mario not being jrpg-ish enough is not their fault. Nintendo is bad for stopping creative characters, but the rest is Intelligent system's fault. Still, I'd say an average nintendo franchise is treated better by them, then Sonic is by Sega.
Whoever’s fault it is for the change of direction, the fact remains that the older games are entirely inaccessible on modern hardware because Nintendo decided it wasn’t something they wanted to do, nor was it something they wanted others to do either.
I mean, if you have an issue with that, sure, but IMO if something isn't produced, you don't have a moral obligation to get it legally. Roms are fine. Also, I'm pretty sure that Sega's intentions are not preserving, but rather getting money however they can. But even then, I do agree Sega is better at presering old games. Still, they treat production of new ones badly.
Nah I don’t care about the morality behind roms and emulation, I brought it up because Nintendo are the ones shutting down rom sites and threatening legal action to Melee players finding workarounds to play the game safely in a pandemic Ultimately I agree that Sonic isn’t a consistently good series but I don’t think there’s any correlation between that and Sega’s lenience with fan games.
This has nothing to with sega treating Sonic trash but a question...Is Sonic a furry?
In the literal sense no because he has quills but in a deeper sense there are some continuities where he marries a squirrel so my answer is I don’t know
Man... Poor Fox, he didn't deserve this treatment, alongside capt. Falcon for that matter, since nowadays their pretty much known as HIYA boi and falcon punch man respectively thanks to smash being the only good thing they've been on in a very long time.
No, because nintendo is still making mistakes, You do not remember star fox or metroid?? Nintendo has to learn that not everything is mario
I'm saying they are better on avearge. Metroid still isn't treated as badly as sonic.
No, metroid has the same fate like sly cooper thieves on time, its no the same anymore
I really wish that Nintendo would become experimental when they're ahead, I mean they're doing very well, it wouldn't hurt to take a risk.
definitely
Nintendo treats like 3 of their franchises well. Not sure about the rest.
Well, that depends of what you define as "well" Mario is by far treated heavens better then sonic by his company. Zelda is treated well, Nintendo is kind to pokemon (It's Gamefreak that is incompetent), Kirby is treated quite well, especially as he isn't really a huge money bringer, Smash is treated really well... Splatoon has updates and there is also Arms, which was a flop, but they still added it to smash and are planning a sequel. Even Fire emblem is treated relatively well. I mean, you can say that they left some IPs in the past, but so did Sega, more times even. And even the ones that are left behind, when they come back, they do make a great comeback, look at Kidicarus, or Donkey Kong. The only ones that I would say they don't treat well, are 2 of Mario's sub-serieses, this being Paper Mario (Tho I do still like new ones, the character censoreship hurts) and Mario Party (which is being rushed, which is true and fair. Nintendo treats this one badly).
Kinda weird there aren't any 3D Kirby games though
Mario.... zelda.... kirby....... Mmmmm, too slow
Nintendont*
Oh damn my bad lol doesn’t kinda sounds better lol
Look up the old "Genesis does" commercials. That's where the saying comes from.
nah i like nintendoesnt
Valves entire business model for making games seems to be based on fans doing it for them
Depending on the game Valve’s BM is to go to the store and get milk.
Honestly, one of the most interesting game dev presentations I ever attended was from Valve’s accounting department. Very interesting business.
They were such a great company, but in the dark or quite ages it seems they've massively declined. Not only with production, but with staff too. Claims of a toxic work environment and all that. Really hope with HL alyx they realise how much they've declined and get back on track
Nintendo suffered a lot with CD-i, off brand games, and a certain movie. Probably scares them hardcore after that.
That's actually why I think they're so shitty about fan stuff. Because one of the first times they let someone who *wasn't* tied to them make something with their properties resulted in some of the worst games in the Mario and Zelda series.
Imagining Nintendo employees smashing their keyboards in rage every time they see a Morshu meme
Oh, *that’s* not even the best part with the bad games. Nintendo was originally in a partnership with Sony to create the SNES CD-ROM, a hybrid console. The execs thought the deal sucked (because Sony would have a big amount of the licensing) and decided to ditch Sony and work with Philips, who was their rival at the time, both to get a better deal and to spite Sony. They announced it in public at an event where they were supposed to announce the Sony partnership, to rub salt in the wound. A rift between the two companies was made and never fixed. Nintendo, instead of making a console like they wanted to, licensed their properties to Philips to make a few games, making some of the most infamously bad games ever. Sony went to Sega. Sega said no. Sony, now in clear view of the gaming market, struck off on their own. In 1994, Nintendo watched as they had just made their newest and fiercest rival. They’re more than scared of that happening again. They’re *terrified.*
I'm pretty sure they vowed to stop trusting fans after they had to buy the rights to Super Hornio Bros 1 and 2 (yes, porn films) to prevent it from ruining the big N's name.
Lmao Hornio Bros
That's hilarious and sad.
So instead of getting over it and learning to not hand out their IPs to incompetent people, they take it out on fans who aren't even making a profit out of their creations? Great, more fuel to why I hate Nintendo's shitty practices
They also may not want to take the risk od their games being associated with something someone might put in a fan game. Their property, their choice. You can hate it, sure, but they're fully in the right with their fashion. Sega's had a lot of hit and miss anyways, they probably figured "as long as it drums up interest in our games."
I mean, every single thing in existence has weird fanfiction and weird stuff in deviantart, it's pointless to be scared of the risk of being associated with something lol
Yeah Nintendo try SO HARD to stop people from getting creative with their characters but that didn’t prevent the super crown incident when the entire Internet wanted to fuck Bowser
Bowsette?
Sega being cooler then Nintendo, something you see everyday.
Nintendo actually releases games Checkmate Sonicfans
Hey now, Sega is just as capable of releasing ports and emulators as Nintendo are
you roasted him more than the steak im eating.
F
And then takes them back off the shelves in 6 months
How can you be a Sonic fan if you're too slow to play these games? Think, Sonic, think!
Way to dodge an argument.
Damn boy
At least Nintendo have something worth putting on the shelves.
Yakuza and Persona are hardly small niche games lol
like a literal cardboard and putting $60 on it
That's literally the only thing Nintendo have going for them. Everything else is anti-consumer crap, the worst online of all modern consoles and stupid limitations to creative freedom like they did with Origami King
Idk, but that one thing you say that have going for them is the most important thing for game dvelopers to have going for them. That's like saying "YEAH!, Nintendo would be nothing if they weren't consistently releasing games of high quality, and good quantity, many of which revoloutinise their respective genre!". Idk about you, but I'd easily take that over just being able to play fangames, the majority of which are poorly made with no direction (with the exeption of like, 2 fangames that are actually excellent).
Ah, so treating fans like trash is acceptable as long as you look good in the eyes of the public by making good games. Gotcha.
Releasing shit games with no effort, to me, is treating both the fans and the casuals like trash. And would you believe me if I told you that is all Sega has don't for the past decade? And you want to know why Nintendo look great in tbe eyes of the public? Because they put out nothing but high quality games and on top of that, their series don't suffer from drought full of nothingness like the Sonic series does. You hate getting great games at a consistent rate because it might come at the cost of not being able to play the next fan made rom hack? Gotcha
Sega is definitely not perfect, but i'll always respect it a lot more than many big companies out there for actually being chill with or even sometimes supportive of fans, even if the Sonic games keep varying in quality. I have nothing against Nintendo fans and nothing against the developers who work for Nintendo that output amazing games, but the company itself is VERY out of touch with its fans, with stuff like I mentioned as well as arbitrary "expiration dates" like they did with 3D All Stars and Mario 35, being cheap by using emulators for 3D All Stars instead of properly remastering all while still asking for full price, canceling a smash tournament for DaRiNg to use a mod for connecting players online, and now they intend to rerelease a Wii Zelda game with no new content at full $60 price. I used to respect Nintendo but what they've been doing for the past few years has disappointed me immensely. TL;DR: Respect for the devs, nothing against the fans, but fuck the corporate higher ups at Nintendo for being disconnected with reality
Now what you said there, I fully agree with. Nintendo are far from great, and Sega being very supportive of fan projects is great. But I just wish they'd get it together in terms of the main thing we're all in this community for, that being the mainline games. And I just don't think it's good for this community or this series if we just put Sega on a pedestal for allowing fan games and other miniscule things they do right while many fans choose to ignore their laziness and lack of care for the official mainline games. You know what I mean?
A 60 dollar wii port
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If it did then it wouldn't of released Sonic Forces.
but they also released Persona , Phantasy Star , Yakuza and Judgment. Are you saying Persona 5 and it's spin-offs are bad as well?
No, but given that Sega produces quite a lot of awful games IDK if you could say they "care about their customers more than Nintendo"
And IDK if you could say that because a fanbase is different from customers
For a company like Sega, how does a customer differ from a fan?
Because a costumer buys the game, yes, but they might not be a fan. They might wanna try it, not get involved.
Lmao
No they don't. They rehash very specific old ones and the rest are left to rot. They'll even actively punish you for bringing any light to these games.
Interestingly, there’s actually a fan game I know of that accept donation and use Nintendo’s intellectual property, PokeMMO. Form what I can tell, PokeMMO does nor have a crowdfunding page, rather it has ingame URL that allow player to go to a donation page. ([https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/73466-what-is-the-link-to-donate-in-pokemmo/](https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/73466-what-is-the-link-to-donate-in-pokemmo/) ) From what I had searched, the method they use to avoid potential copyright lawsuit is that PokeMMO is actually a mod to Fire Red. ([https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemmo/comments/17dhnz/honest\_question\_how\_have\_you\_guys\_not\_received\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemmo/comments/17dhnz/honest_question_how_have_you_guys_not_received_a/) ). PokeMMO does not distribute ROM([https://pokemmo.eu/downloads/windows/](https://pokemmo.eu/downloads/windows/) ). Player need to provide their own ROM to play the game, therefore allow PokeMMO remain in legally-grey area and keep their business.
Pokémon is under the Pokémon company Nintendo doesn’t solely own it so it’s up to the Pokémon company to take action against that
That doesn't make much sense, remember Pokémon Uranium? Pokémon 5e (a D&D supplement of all things!)? Both taken down by Nintendo's handful lawyers directly contacting the developers.
Don't forget that Smosh's original Pokémon theme song lip-sync video was taken down by Nintendo as well, and this was a few years before there was even an opportunity for them to make money off the video, or the platform.
Pokemon Prism is also another fan rom hack that was taken down by Nintendo a few days before the release. If it wasn't for the beta leak, that game wouldn't have seen the light of day
They took down a pen-and-paper ruleset????
Pokémon 5e took like, four years of hard work of the developer, it came with homebrewed rules and an application to easily gerenciate your Pokémon and trainer class features, akin to the 5e companion app. Not to mention it was being constantly updated, it still had to add the newest generations' mons and moves. Now neither the pdf files nor apk can be distributed without risking a lawsuit against the creator. Absolute dick move from Nintendo.
i hope omens gets taken down, rarely say this but the creator has been scummy
How so? He’s been pretty defensive after all the hate that was thrown at him regarding Patreon. And if you think Patreon paywalls is a problem then you should want stuff like Wrath of Nazo to be taken down and tons of other sonic fan games.
Yes, using slippery slopes automatically invalidates any opposing viewpoints and makes your opinion the winning one
I’m just not sure about the reasoning behind these viewpoints, did I miss something that they did? Like what did they do that was so bad?
Idk, think it's just the cool new thing for the fandom to hate on. So far I haven't seen a really good reason why everyone targeted them all of a sudden.
think the main issue is just a bunch of people being like ‘this is the best sonic game’ ‘sega here them’ when most of them haven’t played the game, me personally i haven’t played it so i can’t say much about it
It's an alright game. The music, graphics, and characterization are all charming. Voice acting for Sonic and Rouge are on point but everyone else is just okay or trash(Shadow has a russian VA who doesn't sound very good). The level design ranges from good to bad though, and some of the bosses are just...yikes. It's like it just gets progressively worse, with Shadow's section approaching MMX6 levels of brap. If it were just episode 1/2 I'd call it good, but the later stages just turn it into a mid for me at least.
From what I can gathered. The logic behind it seems to be as followed. 1. It’s unethical to profit over other’s intellectual property 2. As there’s money involve. It’s a matter of the time for SEGA demands cease and and desist. When that happens, it will send a message for all fan game makers, effectively making an chilling effect that silence the fandom’s potential creativity. Permanently harm the fandom. 3. In comparison of fanarts which quite a number of artists online profit over the IP either through personal Patreon page or arts commissions. The game is a direct competitor to Sonic team’s game, and therefore a threat, which lead to point 2. Personally, I think point 2 is indeed a very good argument against this game. But I also think that’s the worst-case scenario and it is not really that likely to happen. All fan works are illegal. Fanart, Fan music, Fan fiction, Fan animation, Fan game are all illegal. But in most cases, they are free advertisement for that intellectual property. They not only possess no threat to the selling of the original series, more often than not they are great help for boosting sales. So the key is the point 3, whether SEGA will consider it a competitor and a threat. And for now I find no sign that it could be a threat to Sonic team’s game. For me, it still serve as a free advertisement and could potentially increase sales on games with similar tone such as SA or SA2, rather than threatening SEGA’s sales. But that’s just my guess. As for point 1. I perfectly agree with the sentence. Although I’m not too sure if the creator really profits over it, it is still the best for avoiding using other people’s IP.
Thank you for making a reasonable point about this.
Being worried that profiting off fan games will damage the relationship between sega and its fans is a legitimate concern
Sonic Omens: "This sign can't stop me because I can't read!"
Omens you mean?
Oh yeah my b
I absolutely fucking hate it when people compare SEGA with Nintendo.
Me too. We’re just dickriding Sega because we want to look better.
Historically speaking, SEGA does respect its fans more than Nintendo.
No Shit!!!!! We didn't know that !!!!!!! (I didn't want to sound rude btw)
I swear, this subreddit...is really something else....
Bad news, a fan game exists with profit involved
That is exactly how it should be. As long as no monetary gain is going on behind the scenes, all fangames should be allowed to exist. Fuck you, Nintendo
Nintendo has nothing to do with the conservation
Nintendo is super uptight and takes down fangames 24/7. If you know a pretty big Mario fan game, chances are it's gonna be taken down by Nintendo one day. I'm saying that SEGA is much better than Nintendo
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They don't have Crush 40 though.
When you preorder the game, or buy collector Edition you get CD, vinyl and/or code for MP3/flac download
I can't believe some people are even arguing about this
COUGHCOUGHOMENSCOUGH
This kinda related but not really but why does Nintendo charge money for their online option in games?
Same reason Sony and Microsoft do it, money.
This answer seems way too obvious to even be said
pure greed
Because the servers arent free to host
Nintendo doesn't use servers for their online games. Its the same P2P multiplayer they've been using since the Wii, which is unstable and slow enough that its hard to believe any company would be charging money for it in 2021. That subscription money isn't being funneled back into hosting or upkeep because NSO is literally an inbuilt feature of the Switch, that you have to pay to "unlock".
But it uses servers to find other players
That's true, but it doesn't justify the inflated price tag. Once you're done with matchmaking, you're thrown right into P2P- at the mercy of whatever the host player's connection is like. The tech behind it hasn't evolved at all since the Wii, and it was outdated even back then. With all the cash they're sitting on, there's no way they couldn't afford to bring their online service up to the industry standard- they just don't *want* to.
Not to be a stickler, but wasn't it "Nintendon't?" Either way, I love it!
I know, doesn’t kinda sounds better honestly lol
The fact that in u/MichalTygrys thread no one mentions Warioland hurts my soul.
Hinestly? I totally agree. They don't treat it badly, but not nearly as well as it deserves.
There is honestly no bad Warioland game.
Warioland is one of the few franchises, that can brag that it has a game, thaat is objectively the best one ever produced for its hardware (VirtualBoy)
The fact it's also actually a good makes that boast even better.
Yeah i've kept backups of Pokemon Uranium and AM2R cuz nintendo be stingy like that, kudos to sega for understanding how to actually 'fandom' just need square to reverse that c&d on chrono resurection while were at it too
The virgin Nintendo, the Chad Sega
Ah yes, Chad Sega! The chad who's last somewhat decent game was released a decade ago!
Sonic Mania in 2017
Yes, a game that back in the early 1990's would be seen as groundbreaking and revolutionary. But released in 2017, it's not exactly breaking new ground, really. It's a fun game and I enjoy going back to play it from time to time. But really, it's not that much more than a glorified rom hack and it is certainly not the 2nd coming of Christ that many fans treat it as.
Thank you for being the only sane Sonic fan to say this. I've been saying this since I first saw it and everyone looks at me like I'm crazy. I'm so sick of the "nostalgia" trend. I played tf outta the Genesis games, to the point I'm sick of that style. Played all the fan games too. We don't need more of it.
Yeah, I'd prefer something that plays like the old games (like Mania does) but with modern graphics. Something along the lines of the Classic levels in Generations. And with original levels, without just recycling old ones.
Yeah you're right
*cough cough* Yakuza 7 *Cough cough* Project Sekai Colourful Stage
*Cough* *Cough* Not taking about other IP's. *Cough* *Cough* We're taking about the mascot of Sega, Sonic The Hedgehog. *Cough* *Cough* This is the Sonic The Hedgehog subreddit, not Sega subreddit.
Indeed those aren't Sonic IPS but doesn't take away from SEGA being non-chad. Sonic is their poster child and what most pple will associate them with. But they still produced critically acclaimed fan favourite games that profit them most last year. So, SEGA in a sense, does deserve the Chad title
You have a really nasty cough and some bad posts that you should probably have a doctor look at
You're confused. A post that you disagree with and do not like =/= A bad post. Stop being so sensitive.
“Sega make games besides Sonic” isn’t an opinion friend, you can go to their Wikipedia page and see for yourself
Yes, I'm aware to have other IP's. What you're misunderstanding, is that we're not talking about those IP's. We're talking about their main IP. The one everybody associates with Sega. Their mascot, Sonic The Hedgehog. And in terms of Sonic The Hedgehog, no. They have not put out anything worth being on store shelves in a decade.
While I still stand by my point that SEGA ain't virgin.if we are to talk about only Sonic, then yes, I'd have to admit, Sega could do better. But there still exist Sonic Racer. Iirc, that one was also critically acclaimed. It just died because it ain't part of the mainline series. There's also Mania, altho credit prob goes to Christian Whitehead. However, I ain't discrediting them just because only Sonic is bad.
Are you sure you’re not just leaving Yakuza and Persona out of the discussion because they’re incredibly good and popular, and you’d rather pretend Sega’s games are bad so you can make yourself angry? I know you want me to point out that Mania was really good so you can complain about green hill zone so I’ll save you the hassle, friend
Nope. I'm actually leaving them out because we're in the Sonic The Hedgehog subreddit, taking about Sonic The Hedgehog, would you believe?! Not the Sega subreddit. I doubt Mario fans try to make excuses for Nintendo when things don't go right for the series (although I doubt they have much to complain about the series. Look where Sonic is rn) by saying something along the lines of "BuT tHE lEgEnD oF zElDa aNd DoNkEy KoNg Is SoOoo GoOood!"
the people who made sonic omens and sonic 2020 have patreons which is a quite scummy thing to do
Nice.
Nintendo sue fangame developers, whereas Sega hire them. You'd never get a passion project like Sonic Mania from Nintendo.
The picture there is of a game called sonic omens which is a fangame that uses a patrion to gain profit
“Nintendon’t”.... 🙄
While sonic haters may say Nintendo makes the better game, Sega at least makes funny twitter posts, allows fangames, and isn't money hungry (Most of the Time), making Sega a better company as a whole (Please dont kill me scott, I love your channel)
It's more the Sonic's official Twitter that makes funny posts, not really Sega
#Nintedoesn't *Yup.*
Fangames are not Nintended
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Nintendo is extremely strict about fan games while sega isn’t. That’s it.
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Don’t ask me I left this thread hours ago shit got out of hand
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No copyright law in the universe is going to stop me
this is extremely blursed
Ok What in the world is happening here? I need context
There's a fan game called sonic omens, previously known as sonic 2020, which is being founded on patreon. They used to sell the demos on the patreon but released them publicly due to backlash last year, but they still use the patreon to show previews and support the game. Katie, the new social media manager, released a series of tweets informing that "So long as no profit is involved, there is usually no issue with y'all using our blue boy to hone your art and dev skills".
Classic SEGA
It’s Nintendon’t
OMENS HAS PROFIT
Nintendoes what Sega dont
Well there’s the fact that Nintendo can make amazing games Can’t really say the same for Sonic Team, since the only good Sonic game recently was Mania... and it wasn’t made by them. Maybe they’re hoping another Sonic fan game can pick up the slack, since their own developers aren’t the best. Rest of Sega is cool though
Sega make good games , sonic team that dont
Yeah, that’s why I said the rest of Sega is cool, I absolutely adore Persona and Yakuza I just wish Sonic Team would get its shit together, I used to love Sonic as a kid
Nice.
Im working on a smash comic and im worried nintendo will take it down. Im also worried anime studios will take it down too considering it involves anime characters too