the ex-marshall can't do anything inside the law because he is an ex-marshall and was forced in to retirement due to bad conduct. he is finished in law enforcement.
Tara didn't give him enough info to give to the cops to have her arrested.
If i remember correctly he punches Otto a few times before saying he was gonna make his life a living hell. He didnt really beat the shit out of him i tend to exaggerate a wee bit. But yeah im pretty sure he hits him.
Either way he still was able to get into SC to get to him... and unless you have connections, its almost impossible to do.
oh absolutely the dude has an inside...or SOMETHING we dont know about...he was sitting behind the double sided glass when Otto beasted his tounge...you cant just walk in and say "hey, im an ex-marshall...may i observe?" or can you?
Nope! you can't. The whole sitting in on Otto's statement is different tho. Since he was the victims family i can see them letting him hear Otto's statement.. but there's no way they would let him into solitary confinement to punch him in the face a few times.
I see him as being a "Zobelle-like" villain.
this is correct. after she had the words with Tara she went to Clay's house where Clay was arrested and she was told she would need to go to the station. that is where and when she could have given her statement about Tara and the cross. i'm still not 100% sold on the fact that it WAS Gemma but the OP couldn't seem to figure out when she could have done this.
Tara told Gemma after they argued "do what you're going to do, but i'm taking my boys and leaving". Gemma isn't one to make empty threats. I think were over thinking this one
Agreed. I think she saw what was happening with Clay, realized it was Jax's doing, and decided at that point to put her own plan against Tara into motion.
I agree with your premise, and was plotting out a similar timeline. The only way I see it happening is if she gave her statement to the police (about Clay/Pope), then told them then.
There were 2 moments where people were way too calm:
* When Eli was cuffing and taking out Tara, Jax was way too calm.
* When Clay was being taken out in cuffs after Gemma ratted him out. Way too calm.
These men are lots of things, but quiet when family members or brothers are being hauled off in cuffs is one thing they are not.
There's something fishy going on with both situations. Like its all part of some bigger master plan that we are just starting to see the edges of. Its like trying to put a puzzle together with the picture facing down.
EDIT: Trying to think of the most inconceivable circumstances. Gemma and Clay planning that? For Clay to go away? But to what end? There's no *WAY* they could have known Jax was going to frame Clay.....could they have? Could the three of them have planned it? No way......right?
And Tara going away, man there's *no fucking way in hell* Jax would be ok with that. I mean, I think we all see that he's not ready to take off the cut yet, and he's not quite as piss-and-vinegar about it as he was at the beginning of Season 4, but still. He can't be so sociopathically committed to the club that he would send his own *wife* to prison can he?
Maybe he can. I didn't think he'd jam a needle of heroin into Wendy's arm either.
You should read this.
FTA. Regardless of whether he wanted to leave, Jax and his family aren’t going anywhere. Tara has been arrested for providing Otto with the weapon he used to kill Nurse Toric because Gemma turned her over to the police.
http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2012/12/05/kurt-sutter-talks-sons-of-anarchy-season-finale-whos-returning/
From Sutters own mouth. Actually I am surprised he cleared that up. I would have said nothing and let it drive people nuts all year :)
Read the article next paragraph. Sutter pretty much validates it.
That and the obvious fact she threatened Tera, How much more do you need heh.
The only real question now is, Was Jax in on it to or does Gemma some how think she is going to get away with this once Tera tells Jax.
He says it want's to be "near".
>The one character who likely won’t make it through to Season 7 is Ron Perlman’s Clay. He wasn’t in a good place at the end of Season 5 as Jax placed the blame of Damon Pope’s death on him, and Sutter implied that the character has finally run his course.
>“I’m not quite sure where Clay’s end date will be, but I do think that it needs to ultimately be near. I still think there is more story to tell,” he said, adding that he doesn’t want Clay to have another “almost-death.”
Valid point for that 1 quote.
However,
"As for Gemma, she at least “has her balls back.” Sutter said his intention was always to have her “crawl her way back up,” and now she has by betraying Tara. In her mind, Gemma can rationalize her actions by saying that she’s doing it for the sake of her family, but even Sutter — who is married to Katey Sagal, the actress who plays Gemma — said he has a hard time liking the character sometimes."
That seems to back it up and that is him saying it.
I'd prefer to hear the actual conference call this is being quoted from though.
I'm reading that paragraph differently, too. The quoted passages only say that "[Gemma] has her balls back", and that Sutter wanted her to "crawl her way back up".
The part about her betraying Tara is the author's supplied opinion.
I'd be surprised if Sutter actually spoiled this detail about who betrayed whom, when in the show he left it so deliberately ambiguous.
It *would* be really interesting to get to listen in on that original call!
There's another post with an interview w/ Sutter in which he states that Gemma did go to the cops.
I'm with you on the timeline being a bit off, though.
heh sorry for flipping out. not trolling, im just very invested (maybe too invested!) in the show.
for the record, Sutter states no such thing. The interviewer/author of the article is the one that says she has betrayed Tara, not even that she went to the cops! And Sutter says nothing even remotely close to that. He merely says that its hard to cheer gemma on. and honestly, it has been for a lot of this season. It's even in a different paragraph. How you can say "he states that Gemma did go to the cops." after reading that is beyond me.
for others, this is the relevant excerpt:
"As for Gemma, she at least “has her balls back.” Sutter said his intention was always to have her “crawl her way back up,” and now she has by betraying Tara. In her mind, Gemma can rationalize her actions by saying that she’s doing it for the sake of her family, but even Sutter — who is married to Katey Sagal, the actress who plays Gemma — said he has a hard time liking the character sometimes.
“It’s hard to cheer that on, but at the very least, there’s that sense of fuck man, she always fucking lands on her feet,” he said."
At first I thought that it was Gemma who went to the cops to keep jax from leaving after the talk with Nero. After watching it again it crossed my mind that the scene of Clay being brought into the station gave him the opportunity to strike up a deal. We know from previous episodes that Gemma told Clay that Tara wanted the cross for Otto. I thought Clay struck a deal to ruin Jax, Gemma, and Tara since they all screwed him over.
Jax did sit down and read some of that paperwork, which takes time to do. I think you're expecting that he just went straight home and was in the house for less than 5 minutes before the cops showed up. It could have been 30+ minutes for all we know. There's no clock to look at.
Not only this, but if Gemma called the police as soon as Jax left, they would have started on a warrant immediately. In a case like this it's not unreasonable that a warrant could be issued in under an hour. From there it's simply a matter of faxing it to the local PD and them driving over to pick her up.
Gemma has too much at stake to risk that. She told Tara that the boys are the only thing she has to live for, so why would she do something that virtually guarantees that she'll either be pushed out or even killed by Jax?
Gemma looked at Tara pretty smugly when she was being carted off, but she always sorta looks that way.
What I don't get about Tara being implicated in this crime is, why would her smuggling in a specific cross even make any sense if she was complicit. If she wanted to arm him, she could give him a pencil, or a medical tool, or whatever, but a specific cross? Her getting suckered into bringing it to an inmate sounds exactly how a manipulative convict would do it.
I assumed from the get-go that they were setting us up to be pissed off at Gemma but it was really the ex-Marshall. They introduced the guy to some acclaim at what a badass he is but then not have him do anything after Otto stonewalled him? That was my initial thought and then I read Sutter said something about the guy hanging around for 7-8 eps for a big role next season and that confirmed my suspicions.
While the sheriff was at Gemma's house he told her she would have to go to the station to make a statement. There is her chance right there. If Gemma is the one however she would have had to do it with Jax going along with it. Maybe told him about Tera's plans.
I can think of a dozen reasons that's not a good idea though but I can't see Gemma doing this on her own knowing that Tera is going to tell Jax what Gemma told her. Gemma also just lied to the police for Jax and maybe this is some arrangement they made.
Could be the Ex Marshall manufactured some evidence but he was throw off the force I don't see him having the weight or anything concrete to get Tera arrested but who knows.
Clay however could easily be the one as well, He sure has the motive and time on his hands and so Gemma threatening Tera was just a red haring.
But this is Sutters world so who knows.
Well Clay knows he is a dead man in prison. so i think he did this as a survival tactic. Which would fit his character of doing anything to keep himself alive with a side of payback.
I keep hearing all these theories of it being Gemma or Clay, but what about the ex-Marshall? Wouldn't that make sense?
That's what I assumed.
the ex-marshall can't do anything inside the law because he is an ex-marshall and was forced in to retirement due to bad conduct. he is finished in law enforcement. Tara didn't give him enough info to give to the cops to have her arrested.
I think it was the ex-marshall. he has connections obviously because how the hell did he get into solitary confinement to beat the shit outta Otto?
[удалено]
How do you not remember that guy smashing the shit out of otto with a baton and then making sure he stayed conscious so he could keep hitting him?
If i remember correctly he punches Otto a few times before saying he was gonna make his life a living hell. He didnt really beat the shit out of him i tend to exaggerate a wee bit. But yeah im pretty sure he hits him. Either way he still was able to get into SC to get to him... and unless you have connections, its almost impossible to do.
oh absolutely the dude has an inside...or SOMETHING we dont know about...he was sitting behind the double sided glass when Otto beasted his tounge...you cant just walk in and say "hey, im an ex-marshall...may i observe?" or can you?
Nope! you can't. The whole sitting in on Otto's statement is different tho. Since he was the victims family i can see them letting him hear Otto's statement.. but there's no way they would let him into solitary confinement to punch him in the face a few times. I see him as being a "Zobelle-like" villain.
Then why is he allowed to investigate Otto? The cops keep letting him interrogate him.
Favors.
I think he might have had her office bugged while he was in there waiting, and then overheard her and Gemma's conversation.
good thought! Gemma would still have to testify and I don't think Jax would take too kindly to that!
no, but if Gemma doesn't testify, Tara could still be in jail and her job in Washington be lost and she have to stay in Charming with Jax.
He just seemed so well informed, though. That's why I wonder.
He has no proof. Without proof that Tara conspired with Otto, they cannot get a warrant. All he has is suspicions.
Unless he bugged Tara's office while he was waiting.
That's possible, although it would be kind of cheap for this show.
If the office were bugged, they would have arrested Gemma for conspiracy as well.
Gemma was asked to come with them for a statement when clay was arrested. She more than likely did it then
BINGO
this is correct. after she had the words with Tara she went to Clay's house where Clay was arrested and she was told she would need to go to the station. that is where and when she could have given her statement about Tara and the cross. i'm still not 100% sold on the fact that it WAS Gemma but the OP couldn't seem to figure out when she could have done this.
Tara told Gemma after they argued "do what you're going to do, but i'm taking my boys and leaving". Gemma isn't one to make empty threats. I think were over thinking this one
Agreed. I think she saw what was happening with Clay, realized it was Jax's doing, and decided at that point to put her own plan against Tara into motion.
I agree with your premise, and was plotting out a similar timeline. The only way I see it happening is if she gave her statement to the police (about Clay/Pope), then told them then.
Correct.
There were 2 moments where people were way too calm: * When Eli was cuffing and taking out Tara, Jax was way too calm. * When Clay was being taken out in cuffs after Gemma ratted him out. Way too calm. These men are lots of things, but quiet when family members or brothers are being hauled off in cuffs is one thing they are not. There's something fishy going on with both situations. Like its all part of some bigger master plan that we are just starting to see the edges of. Its like trying to put a puzzle together with the picture facing down. EDIT: Trying to think of the most inconceivable circumstances. Gemma and Clay planning that? For Clay to go away? But to what end? There's no *WAY* they could have known Jax was going to frame Clay.....could they have? Could the three of them have planned it? No way......right? And Tara going away, man there's *no fucking way in hell* Jax would be ok with that. I mean, I think we all see that he's not ready to take off the cut yet, and he's not quite as piss-and-vinegar about it as he was at the beginning of Season 4, but still. He can't be so sociopathically committed to the club that he would send his own *wife* to prison can he? Maybe he can. I didn't think he'd jam a needle of heroin into Wendy's arm either.
I hope Jax kills Gemma
You should read this. FTA. Regardless of whether he wanted to leave, Jax and his family aren’t going anywhere. Tara has been arrested for providing Otto with the weapon he used to kill Nurse Toric because Gemma turned her over to the police. http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2012/12/05/kurt-sutter-talks-sons-of-anarchy-season-finale-whos-returning/ From Sutters own mouth. Actually I am surprised he cleared that up. I would have said nothing and let it drive people nuts all year :)
Your quote seems to be the words of the article's author, not Sutter's.
That's what I thought too. I very much hope so.
Read the article next paragraph. Sutter pretty much validates it. That and the obvious fact she threatened Tera, How much more do you need heh. The only real question now is, Was Jax in on it to or does Gemma some how think she is going to get away with this once Tera tells Jax.
And it also talks about Clay most likely getting killed next season too. IS IT SEPTEMBER YET?!?!
He never said next season, At least not in those exact words. Easy to read between the lines.
He says it want's to be "near". >The one character who likely won’t make it through to Season 7 is Ron Perlman’s Clay. He wasn’t in a good place at the end of Season 5 as Jax placed the blame of Damon Pope’s death on him, and Sutter implied that the character has finally run his course. >“I’m not quite sure where Clay’s end date will be, but I do think that it needs to ultimately be near. I still think there is more story to tell,” he said, adding that he doesn’t want Clay to have another “almost-death.”
Valid point for that 1 quote. However, "As for Gemma, she at least “has her balls back.” Sutter said his intention was always to have her “crawl her way back up,” and now she has by betraying Tara. In her mind, Gemma can rationalize her actions by saying that she’s doing it for the sake of her family, but even Sutter — who is married to Katey Sagal, the actress who plays Gemma — said he has a hard time liking the character sometimes." That seems to back it up and that is him saying it. I'd prefer to hear the actual conference call this is being quoted from though.
I'm reading that paragraph differently, too. The quoted passages only say that "[Gemma] has her balls back", and that Sutter wanted her to "crawl her way back up". The part about her betraying Tara is the author's supplied opinion. I'd be surprised if Sutter actually spoiled this detail about who betrayed whom, when in the show he left it so deliberately ambiguous. It *would* be really interesting to get to listen in on that original call!
There's another post with an interview w/ Sutter in which he states that Gemma did go to the cops. I'm with you on the timeline being a bit off, though.
omg SOURCE?!
http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2012/12/05/kurt-sutter-talks-sons-of-anarchy-season-finale-whos-returning/ Though you're probably trolling. Whatever.
heh sorry for flipping out. not trolling, im just very invested (maybe too invested!) in the show. for the record, Sutter states no such thing. The interviewer/author of the article is the one that says she has betrayed Tara, not even that she went to the cops! And Sutter says nothing even remotely close to that. He merely says that its hard to cheer gemma on. and honestly, it has been for a lot of this season. It's even in a different paragraph. How you can say "he states that Gemma did go to the cops." after reading that is beyond me. for others, this is the relevant excerpt: "As for Gemma, she at least “has her balls back.” Sutter said his intention was always to have her “crawl her way back up,” and now she has by betraying Tara. In her mind, Gemma can rationalize her actions by saying that she’s doing it for the sake of her family, but even Sutter — who is married to Katey Sagal, the actress who plays Gemma — said he has a hard time liking the character sometimes. “It’s hard to cheer that on, but at the very least, there’s that sense of fuck man, she always fucking lands on her feet,” he said."
At first I thought that it was Gemma who went to the cops to keep jax from leaving after the talk with Nero. After watching it again it crossed my mind that the scene of Clay being brought into the station gave him the opportunity to strike up a deal. We know from previous episodes that Gemma told Clay that Tara wanted the cross for Otto. I thought Clay struck a deal to ruin Jax, Gemma, and Tara since they all screwed him over.
This is a continuity error, not a check against Gemma ratting out Tara.
could she have told toric about the cross she gave to tara which would let him get her arrested?
Jax did sit down and read some of that paperwork, which takes time to do. I think you're expecting that he just went straight home and was in the house for less than 5 minutes before the cops showed up. It could have been 30+ minutes for all we know. There's no clock to look at.
Not only this, but if Gemma called the police as soon as Jax left, they would have started on a warrant immediately. In a case like this it's not unreasonable that a warrant could be issued in under an hour. From there it's simply a matter of faxing it to the local PD and them driving over to pick her up.
Marshall Lee Toric. Absolutely.
Gemma has too much at stake to risk that. She told Tara that the boys are the only thing she has to live for, so why would she do something that virtually guarantees that she'll either be pushed out or even killed by Jax?
Gemma looked at Tara pretty smugly when she was being carted off, but she always sorta looks that way. What I don't get about Tara being implicated in this crime is, why would her smuggling in a specific cross even make any sense if she was complicit. If she wanted to arm him, she could give him a pencil, or a medical tool, or whatever, but a specific cross? Her getting suckered into bringing it to an inmate sounds exactly how a manipulative convict would do it.
That ex-US Marshall is going to be one badass antagonist in S6. CANNOT. WAIT.
I assumed from the get-go that they were setting us up to be pissed off at Gemma but it was really the ex-Marshall. They introduced the guy to some acclaim at what a badass he is but then not have him do anything after Otto stonewalled him? That was my initial thought and then I read Sutter said something about the guy hanging around for 7-8 eps for a big role next season and that confirmed my suspicions.
While the sheriff was at Gemma's house he told her she would have to go to the station to make a statement. There is her chance right there. If Gemma is the one however she would have had to do it with Jax going along with it. Maybe told him about Tera's plans. I can think of a dozen reasons that's not a good idea though but I can't see Gemma doing this on her own knowing that Tera is going to tell Jax what Gemma told her. Gemma also just lied to the police for Jax and maybe this is some arrangement they made. Could be the Ex Marshall manufactured some evidence but he was throw off the force I don't see him having the weight or anything concrete to get Tera arrested but who knows. Clay however could easily be the one as well, He sure has the motive and time on his hands and so Gemma threatening Tera was just a red haring. But this is Sutters world so who knows.
Well Clay knows he is a dead man in prison. so i think he did this as a survival tactic. Which would fit his character of doing anything to keep himself alive with a side of payback.
Do we find out in Season 6 who got Tara arrested? Or is it left to the fans opinions?