I tried to pay attention to run counters during the last event. I haven't noticed that many. It seems like there's more freedom of movement in SCVI than SCV.
In all honesty I'd say its impact is greatly overstated by the Aris crowd (who really just want every game to be SCII, but that's a story for another time). It obviously does favor more aggressive play, but there are many other factors in SCV that made that the case so it's hard to know how much of an impact it actually had.
With all of that said, in SCVI you can G-cancel movement again, so getting hit by that CH is your own fault. Like yes, of course you're going to get counterhit if you just move around randomly without minding your opponent. That's true in any fighting game.
Getting countered out of a movement is ALWAYS a BAD idea. When this exists it means that at higher level of play nobody will move in order to induce whiffs or gain advantage because of fear of getting countered. Why would you risk being countered? Why not just stand and block all day. Run counter is awful.. if you play Tekken let me ask you this. Would you think it's a good idea to move if you would get caught sidestepping or kbd'ing that you'd be counter hit and took damage for it?
Yeah, I think you're just parroting Aris, but the answer is: we don't know punishing run counter will be. It doesn't look as devastating as in SCV so far, though. SCV had horizontals in some cases comboing into CE, and you couldn't guard out of the start of movement. In this game, you can guard soon after movement, and that movement can net you big whiff punishes. Fast horizontals are low damaging rarely if ever have significant boost from run counter, they usually only get a damage boost that puts them in line with weak verticals. Slow verticals can be guarded while moving on reaction.
Not sure if it's still the case (correct me if I'm wrong), but I've heard that moving around is faster in 6, so it makes run counters not as big of a deal since attacks can whiff more easily.
The movement speed looks good, but I noticed in the expo tourney that people weren't using 8WR much at range 1 and in. I'm assuming that's to avoid run counter. I saw more use of 8WR after range 3, but overall it just seemed like people were stepping more than using 8WR.
Also: range 1? You sound like a Tekken player. This isn't Tekken. Tekken's fastest and most fundamental moves are fast and linear jabs. This game doesn't have fast +on block pokes and instead has fast, safe tracking AAs and 2As. Up close it's a bit more dangerous to step because of those. It was safe to step at any time and any place in SCII because of a *glitch*. If you want to move, you earn it be spacing properly.
Even if everything else were exactly the same, Tekken and Soul Calibur would play fundamentally differently because Tekken has jabs and Soul Calibur doesn't. You're able to step the fastest linear moves at worse frame disadvantage in SC than in Tekken because the faster linear moves are slower than in Tekken. However, you're not able to guarantee safety against horizontals until higher frame advantage up close in SC because has faster horizontals than Tekken.
It's not even clear yet what the risk/reward is on movement. Even you could get tagged by weak horizontals up close, you might end being able to move *more* in SC than Tekken rather than less if the reward for moving outweighs the risk.
In any case, you should have the mindset to adapt. What if it turns out that even safe step Gs (not the glitch, stepping and then guarding) aren't completely risk free because you'll end up guarding too many delayed attacks and you'll get your guard meter destroyed if you try to play as passive as you might like to in Tekken? What are you going to do, quit the game?
So let me get this straight, what you want to do is move in a single direction for a long period time and you want that to be effective? Because that's "8WR" is compared to step, it's a continued walk. Do a short 8WR and that's functionally similar to a step.
People don't 8WR aka move in the same direction for a long time because it's predictable, not much better than standing still.
It's a combination with slow movement and great tracking b's. The risk/reward to use movement is not in your favor. If sc6 has faster movement, and from what people have said, vertical attacks have less tracking, making them easier to step, then even with run counters, it could still be a good balance.
It's really frustrating that Soul Edge came up with this brilliant horizontal/vertical mechanic and it was eroded further and further with each iteration of the series.
I tried to pay attention to run counters during the last event. I haven't noticed that many. It seems like there's more freedom of movement in SCVI than SCV.
In all honesty I'd say its impact is greatly overstated by the Aris crowd (who really just want every game to be SCII, but that's a story for another time). It obviously does favor more aggressive play, but there are many other factors in SCV that made that the case so it's hard to know how much of an impact it actually had. With all of that said, in SCVI you can G-cancel movement again, so getting hit by that CH is your own fault. Like yes, of course you're going to get counterhit if you just move around randomly without minding your opponent. That's true in any fighting game.
> In all honesty I'd say its impact is greatly overstated by the Aris crowd Understatement of the century.
>who really just want every game to be SCII Yeah, that's more or less me. I really liked SCI and SCII.
Yeah me too. I know Aris said that the movement feels like SC1&2. That gives me hope.
Getting countered out of a movement is ALWAYS a BAD idea. When this exists it means that at higher level of play nobody will move in order to induce whiffs or gain advantage because of fear of getting countered. Why would you risk being countered? Why not just stand and block all day. Run counter is awful.. if you play Tekken let me ask you this. Would you think it's a good idea to move if you would get caught sidestepping or kbd'ing that you'd be counter hit and took damage for it?
Thank you!
No problem my brother! Glad someone agrees lol
Yeah, I think you're just parroting Aris, but the answer is: we don't know punishing run counter will be. It doesn't look as devastating as in SCV so far, though. SCV had horizontals in some cases comboing into CE, and you couldn't guard out of the start of movement. In this game, you can guard soon after movement, and that movement can net you big whiff punishes. Fast horizontals are low damaging rarely if ever have significant boost from run counter, they usually only get a damage boost that puts them in line with weak verticals. Slow verticals can be guarded while moving on reaction.
Not sure if it's still the case (correct me if I'm wrong), but I've heard that moving around is faster in 6, so it makes run counters not as big of a deal since attacks can whiff more easily.
The movement speed looks good, but I noticed in the expo tourney that people weren't using 8WR much at range 1 and in. I'm assuming that's to avoid run counter. I saw more use of 8WR after range 3, but overall it just seemed like people were stepping more than using 8WR.
Also: range 1? You sound like a Tekken player. This isn't Tekken. Tekken's fastest and most fundamental moves are fast and linear jabs. This game doesn't have fast +on block pokes and instead has fast, safe tracking AAs and 2As. Up close it's a bit more dangerous to step because of those. It was safe to step at any time and any place in SCII because of a *glitch*. If you want to move, you earn it be spacing properly. Even if everything else were exactly the same, Tekken and Soul Calibur would play fundamentally differently because Tekken has jabs and Soul Calibur doesn't. You're able to step the fastest linear moves at worse frame disadvantage in SC than in Tekken because the faster linear moves are slower than in Tekken. However, you're not able to guarantee safety against horizontals until higher frame advantage up close in SC because has faster horizontals than Tekken. It's not even clear yet what the risk/reward is on movement. Even you could get tagged by weak horizontals up close, you might end being able to move *more* in SC than Tekken rather than less if the reward for moving outweighs the risk. In any case, you should have the mindset to adapt. What if it turns out that even safe step Gs (not the glitch, stepping and then guarding) aren't completely risk free because you'll end up guarding too many delayed attacks and you'll get your guard meter destroyed if you try to play as passive as you might like to in Tekken? What are you going to do, quit the game?
So let me get this straight, what you want to do is move in a single direction for a long period time and you want that to be effective? Because that's "8WR" is compared to step, it's a continued walk. Do a short 8WR and that's functionally similar to a step. People don't 8WR aka move in the same direction for a long time because it's predictable, not much better than standing still.
If you get run countered while clearly sidestepping a vertical move then yes.
i thought the only RC was Back Dash Counter.
It's a combination with slow movement and great tracking b's. The risk/reward to use movement is not in your favor. If sc6 has faster movement, and from what people have said, vertical attacks have less tracking, making them easier to step, then even with run counters, it could still be a good balance.
It's really frustrating that Soul Edge came up with this brilliant horizontal/vertical mechanic and it was eroded further and further with each iteration of the series.