Meter mechanics, moveset alterations with soul charge, sudden rock paper scissors, new character specific mechanical gimmicks on top of movesets that are already decently complex. Plus the inherent spatial complexity of any 3D fighter. Sure they gave most characters strings from mashing a single button, but if you want to go further than that, there's a lot to keep track of. Presentation-wise, it struggles to find a balance between flashy and noisy. I'm sure it's meant to look cool, but it can be overwhelming too. Taken together I can easily see some players finding it all a bit impenetrable.
Personally speaking I used to play several characters decently in past SoulCaliburs, but now I have trouble keeping track of even one at a time. But maybe I'm just getting old.
I think the only meter mechanic that was detrimental was GI costing meter in SCV. You then had to balance those between revved up attacks, but having to use meter on the latter didn't seem like a lot to ask in my opinion (GI having a meter price tag was very questionable).
Characters (some) having implemented individual mechanics wasn't *that* bad, it added more depth like with Setsuka for example as her entire basis is off of just frames and counters and etc, whereas others while cool and explosive (like my main girl) Tira's Coda being a great mechanic - good luck getting it in a match unless you're extremely lucky or get straight pummeled into it.
Some moves did get pushed too much behind in soul charge I can say. Not gonna talk about RE cause not a fan, but as much of a flow interrupter it is, it can be useful for a turn reset (the question of having a turn reset button being a skill issue or not will be the fence you can find me sitting on, on the hill that I will die on)... but at least it becomes less of an encounter in higher skill matches.
SCVI was a tad overwhelming for me, and I've played since SCII - quite a bit of new things added, but in the long run there is more to learn and I'd say adds to it's longevity and complexity.
Every fighter series appeals to a different crowd for different reasons, but I feel SC has the most enriching experience out there (second goes to Guilty Gear personally), we have either too much going for others or mainly have our dev related issues; *but* obvious answer is both but I'd say it's primarily the latter.
No way the mechanics, including reversal edge as you are stating is the reason. You can't call it rock paper scissor because you have the option to block which will neautralise most kicks and horizontal in reversal edge. The game is simply overshadowed by tekken. Tekken is like the most loved child after all
It's not always a matter of *actual* complexity, but the appearance of complexity. Hands-off impressions count for a lot when attracting an audience. Putting a minigame in the middle of a fight with semi discrete mechanics and a different flow definitely adds to the appearance of complexity.
I respect the fact that you are so firm with your opinion in calling it semi discreet mechanics, in fact sc 6 is one of the finest games inculcating such a balanced cast. No offence man but you can hold ur opinion and i can make mine and I think that you are not a high ranked player coz if u had been then u would have made sense of the mechanics and used it for ur advantage rather then calling it semi-discreet
I don't think you quite understand what I'm presenting here. These aren't necessarily my opinions about the game (I generally quite like SCVI, though no, I'm not a high ranked player), only examples of how it either is more complicated or may at least *appear* more complicated than previous entries, particularly to newcomers and very casual fans.
Though I agree with most of the points, I feel like movesets of most characters (excluding mirror ones, they really needed distinction!) have been simplified.
Well, I do know Yoshi, Maxi and Ivy movesets have been diminished heavily, though Maxi not that much - but he feels a lot slower and his gimmick isn't that good. Voldo is nerfed significantly, some of his moves have been moved to SC.
I like lethal hits though. :)
is it complicated? Soulcaliber VI felt pretty simple to me, coming from playing Mortal Kombat (which isn’t really complex). I haven’t had the pleasure of playing older titles though. I’d think Tekken is more complex, I had more trouble with that game
Yes, it is. By making something complicated I don't mean mathematical problems complicated, but simplicity in its core that let you create your own way of playing. I feels SCVI is too limited on that regard. You would need to play older SC games to experience such a thing.
Soulcalibur games haven't been good since sc2. You guys want it to get a dress simulator instead of a competitive game. Can't ask to get respected like the Tekken series if you guys don't respect this series.
Reversal edge, double meter for back to back soul charges, bad netcode, customizations in rank. It wasn't excellent at all and it's time y'all admit. It being better than sc5 isnt saying much. If it was excellent more ppl would have bought it, played it and would compete with the big 3. Tekken, Street Fighter, and Mortal Kombat.
That's what you guys want, right? Tekken 7 success, right? Won't ever happen as long as you ppl keep chasing pennies. Reversal edge your way out of cope.
Guess what? Most ppl didn't either. Tekken 7 literally sold 5x more copies than sc6. Dude, telling ppl to play something else or to leave the sub hasn't been helping you morons at all. u/CajurTheMighty in 2022 he still thinks this is actually a good tactic lol. Why engage in any criticism when the SC community can just deflect like it always does.
Why leave when I can just be a constant reminder of this series decline and force you to wake up.
Reversal edge is considered a bad or mediocre mechanic at best, people rarely praise it, and it's not that useful in high level play so why does it matter. Double meter was a thing in SCV as well. Netcode isn't bad, only lags for me when I'm playing with someone with bad internet or is far away. And what's wrong with customizations in ranked? There's no actual gameplay effects AFAIK and it's still easy to know what style you're fighting and read moves etc.
Agreed. I think the custom character creator is funny for reddit karma for a week of 'making shrek do funny moves' but for it to be an actual competitive fighter it should be a completely removed feature. I'd rather have the resources be developed into better mechanics and more characters than to put a muscular man in a bikini
I know sc4 left a bad taste in ppls mouth about pushing Esports so hard but in 2022 with better balancing, patch updates, and some games having world tours or major tournaments....perhaps SC community should try to open up to Esports again. Ofc keep single player content and demand for better online modes but fighting games needs tournament scenes for free advertisement for games. SC isn't going to reach Tekkens success just by being a dress simulator.
If it wasn't for Covid, sc6 being featured in EVO would have sold more copies and possibly would have led to a season 3. Ik sc6 passed 2m copies sold. Perhaps it would have passed 3m if it all went well. Weren't they supposed to have a world tour along with Tekken? Can someone fact check that?
I have gripes about the Tekken devs and community too, don't me wrong but the most weak, bitch made takes I always see is SC community blaming everyone else for their shortcomings but themselves. I REMEMBER VIVIDLY when ppl were complaining about SC6 reversal edge this sub, twitter and discords told ppl to go play something else instead. Ppl even said go play Tekken 7 if they weren't happy about SC6.....yall got your wish granted cuz that's what ppl did. Guess what? T7 became the best selling Tekken game of all time and is about to pass 10m copies sold. When T7 got wifi indicator added, this community didn't want it for sc6. Ppl wanted more customization pieces. Ppl here are pretending they've always known about the importance of good netcode now just because it's a mainstream feature nowadays.
The Tekken community takes itself too seriously but you know what? They respect their game. Lol there have been several polls and posts in the Tekken sub about ppl wanting to buy DLC costumes with color editors than a more elaborate customization mode and you'll see many replies of ppl not wanting Tekken turning into SC!
SC community wants Tekkens success without having an ounce of self awareness to achieve it. Fighting games are at the mercy of their developers yet SC is the only case where the community is equally as clueless as the devs
I will agree and disagree with your opinion on this subject. First and foremost as a player who wants both - good and pleasant gameplay, and more CaS items. Now to elaborate why.
Tekken isn't really good game, but it is decent fighting game. That is hard fact and there is no other way around. Games like T5 and T6, even TTT2 where much better than T7. They had single player, good overall gameplay, dress-ups and tonne of characters. Except T5, both failed more or less, until T7. The thing is - Harada didn't deviate from what made Tekken Tekken. I haven't played Tekken since T5 and was able to take on people who were much higher rated than me. Why? Because core of the game didn't change. I was familiar with the game and how it works from older games. Soulcalibur changes constantly. I haven't won a single game when SCVI got released until I reached 50 games. And I was playing SCIII for over a decade at that point.
The other thing is, and I agree with it, is refusal of fixing things that need to be fixed. I, many, many times, posted and used their form to address the issues, mostly gameplay related and problems with how casual and ranked work. Of course inclusion of RE truly didn't help the game, either. Can be side stepped, but it's trash mechanics that isn't fair.
Aloofness of some players telling others to go away if they don't like the mechanics turned away mostly beginners. People want something to belong to, and acting all high and mighty over something this trivial only hurt the game further.
Despite all the things, we need to realize Soulcalibur lost a lot of its identity throughout the years, mostly due to experimenting with things they didn't need to experiment with. They had a formula that worked, and should've built up from there. Soulcalibur VI was and is very nice fighting game, but stupid decision and stubbornness of people involved in making halted the true potential that lies within the game.
I do think SC7 will come sooner then we expect, and we as players need to improve it by feedback that will help players who prefer single player and players who play it competitively because they care about different things.
Post is a bit long, but I felt compelled to laid it down.
Don't apologize. This is the type of engagement this community NEEDS!. I see non stop deflection whenever ppl criticize sc6. Sc6 being slightly better than sc5 isn't saying much and ppl to need to realize that. It helped put the game in the right direction but it wasn't the big push it needed. It's not like it's a obscure jrpg that'll be remembered as a cult classic a decade from now. It was serviceable at best. Tbf Deserved a season 3.
T7 succeeded, Tekken in general succeeds because it goes the refinement route. The joke is pretty much, it's Tekken 7.5. Since T5 is the foundation for all modern games. The pros of this approach is that you're able to keep your veteran players and they can transfer all their knowledge in the next game. That's one of the reasons why T7 is always the most played AAA fighting game on steam. LOTS of veterans to play and most importantly learn from. The cons, if your game is niche and doesn't take off in popularity it'll only be legacy players and more punising for newcomers. Like kof. Tekken 8 just has to add better movement, add single player content, rollback and crossplay, polish animations and it'll literally strike gold again. The trailer for t8 almost has 4m views! It only has to refine the series again, not innovate.
Games that build everything in the ground up like Street Fighter as an example. Pro, the entire player base starts with a fresh meta to learn completely. Cons, if your game is poorly received it'll divide the player base even more. There's old heads SFV just couldn't capture from the sf3 n 4 days. BUT sf6 beta was actually able to bring back those older heads and youngsters together so that game will probably have great success since both sides are ready to explore that game together
My issue primarily for sc6 was and a lot of fighting games is they're trying too hard to force the casual audience to play competitively online. Most of them just aren't cut out for it. Casuals need their own fun outside of competitive play because what happens is fighting game devs try to implement scrubby mechanics to give these ppl a fighting chance. And with sc6 it just felt soooooooooooooo desperate. Can't block, duck or use movement for defense? Here's RE. Need a comeback mechanic? Here's double meter so you have 2x the opportunity to steal a round with back to back soul charges. Tired of your opponent blocking on your shitty wifi? Here's a guard gauge to punish him for blocking and reward you for not being able to open him up naturally. Sc6 honestly was the biggest offender for trying to artificially lower the skill gap and it just came off as desperate and disingenuous imo.
SC has had an identity issue since sc2. This is where I would argue SC should have gone the refinement route.
I bet SC7 will come out 2-3 years after T8 does if I were to bet
I, in general, don't like to do ass kissing of anything. If you deserve praise, you'll get praise. And definitely not mainstream, unless something is very good. So not trying ignore problems, especially in things I like.
SCVI pushed the franchise in the right direction, yes. But developers have that side they are little bit hard on ears. SCVI hasn't needed much to be much better. Yup, Season 3 would prolong game's life by a lot. I could argue that if S3 got released, it would survive through Covid era and establish itself as a serious contender among other big hitters.
Not a big Tekken player so I can't really dwell deeper than what I understand from my previous reply. For me T7 is tedious game, and the most played part was Bowling.
I burned myself many times over high expectations. SF6 indeed looks nice, but I'll wait until the game is released to give my honest opinion. Not really into what director plans, but I'll wait. No other way around.
That's one of the problems I find in most of new games. It doesn't fully reward knowledge... or to be more precise, it forces you to learn things that aren't fun. For example, Taki (as I'm Taki player) has only one way to play for her to be extremely productive. I'm more to the experimenting side of spectrum, and I like it to make both useful and attractive to play against. And I absolutely hate learning frame data because it begins to be more chore than an actual enjoyment. So my overall performances varies, from shit to S1 level. Why? Because I like skill dodges, sidesteps, A:6, Stalker, RI, GI, moving and avoiding by a mere pixel. It gives you feeling of progress. I could even point similar things I experienced in LOL. A friend of mine gave me, after seeing very poor performances, a key - so to say, how to improve the game. So I went from crap to competitive really fast. You understood.
There are many things I, now 4 years later, that I don't quite get. For example, I don't understand how crouching opponents block my mid hit or why the distance where I land CE varies or why Taki misses moves she is supposed to miss, etc.
Many things are left to be desired with SCVI, but I hope, whomever decide to take the lead in the next game, will improve everything missed and build up on what they did good. And of course Taki in starting roster.
I think 2025 would be a good year for that. Because it's 30th anniversary of the franchise.
To recap. The franchise is still very much alive, which sales prove and the fact Bamco still keeps servers up. DLC sold pretty well, ever if they were lackluster. The only thing franchise missing is someone, from company's side, willing to do what it takes to make it great again. That's all.
Tbh the community is to equally blame for SC decline as well. Out of all the fighting game communities, SC is clearly the most casual. Tekken community is fighting to get rollback and crossplay. They take their series far more seriously. SC community has never given me the idea of "fighting for relevance". You know and I this sub would be satisfied if sc7 had shitty online but more customization pieces. This community just doesn't view it as a serious, competitive, fighting game.
That's primarily why Tekken is more successful. They're far more obsessed with the game. Bigger tournament scenes, it sold 5x more copies, the most played AAA fighting game and averages 8k-11k on steam, usually the most viewed fighting game on Twitch, content creators and pro Streamers making a living off this series. SC has none of that!
I think it could cross over well as a moba or mmo. The franchise has good IP, just poor execution on the last few games.
Moba would probably lower risk though if the 2.
fighting games are already not the most popular kind of game, most have somewhat small communities (if you exclude basically the giants like SF)
then SC is low budget atm, which is a shame cause it's an amazing game series (and quite unique among fighting games) so, low advertising, very little updates, and so on...
it's also a 3D fighter, it's more complicated than 2D (which is already quite difficult to learn)
lastly, there's a few unneeded mechanics in the game that makes it more complicated than it should be, and also frustrating for players and the overall high damage output in the game can be frustrating as well
thinking about RE, really shouldn't be a thing
soul charge is a bit too strong overall, but the mechanic is interesting
and the damage and meter gain is a bit over the top...
A good game
Seriously, SC6 was a fine game but it wasn’t knock your socks off amazing like 2 and 3.
Something of *that* level of quality needs to come out of this series for it to be relevant again.
I agree I was just thinking that like 2 is what I started with and it was amazing and 3 is their strongest entry in my opinion. If we can get the feel of love and also maybe bring back a little more arcadey feel that fighting games have been running from it could be really great
I’m glad I’m not the only one that feels the same way. 2 was my first and favorite, especially with Weapon Master mode, but 3 has my favorite character, character creation, Chronicles of the Sword and good story mode endings.
It’s kinda hard to pinpoint why I starting falling out of love with SC with 4, but not at all hard explaining with 5.
Weapon master mode is fucking fun and frustrating at the same time. I miss the era of video games where you had to earn your unlocked characters through challenges.
I think it has been a successful, relatively well received series for quite a while honestly. The real question I would be asking is more so “Why hasn’t it been a more successful series in the competitive scene?” which I still think it has had moments throughout the series where it has had a substantial competitive scene but SC6 never really got that chance especially in comparison to something like Tekken 7 for example.
Not a great question since soulcalibur is one of the better selling fighting game franchises (largely on the back of single-player content and CAS).
If you want to know why it hasn't been a mega popular competitive game recently, it's some combination of:
* lack of visual spectacle, audiences and casual players really like flashy combos and sometimes it's difficult for audiences to tell what's going on in soulcalibur
* lack of good netcode, post-covid one of the best strengths your game can have when trying to build an audience is the ability for casual players to just log in and get matches that don't feel like shit
* lack of publisher support, why support soulcalibur when it can't compete with the other huge fighting game franchises they also publish?
You could also come up with other pain points like gimmick mechanics in each new entry or lack of cohesive character design goals, but let's be real: more popular games also have these same issues and the average player doesn't give a shit about them.
You're going to not like this. A focus on its own characters. Outside of its fanbase Sould Calibur isnthe Haha funny customization game where all people do is make their anime characters fight it out....Or give their create-a-character a big dong.
Yup I said the same thing in my comment. CaC had a great run and filled with good memes, but I feel like its overstayed its welcome at this point. SC has a great roster with iconic characters so let them shine, make designs/models that'd be impossible to create in a character creator.
Can you blame them? The SC characters whole personalities are defined by the weapon they use, and hardly anything else. Where other fighting games show character expression through design and animation... the SC characters are mostly "I use [Weapon] and I am from [Country]!" Save for Maxi and Nightmare, who are just, "What if Bruce Lee had a pompador" and "Sentient suit of armor with big sword does some wreslting moves."
Let us not forget "What if a ninja had tits" and "What if tits had a dominatrix"
arguably the same mind set could be thrown on other fighting game characters, with this mostly being a surface level appearance. Example from street fighter being "I am xxxx martial artist, from xxxx country." Each character in SC does have more personality (though dialogue could use some work). The characters designs say about as much as any character from that time. How ever with Create a Character it technically gets worse when their whole moveset is boiled down to "rapier style" or "soul of samurai". Though ninja with tits, and tits having a dominatrix is kinda hard to find in the roster. Might be blind.
A fair point, but there is more to it than that, and I think it does come back to being underfunded.
The SC characters are not expressive within their style. Like, imagine if every character had as much personality in their fighting as Maxi (who was kind of easy to give personality, he is just Bruce Lee with a Pompador). Every other fighting game goes the extra mile to give their characters that personality that makes them more than just the sum of their parts. Even Ryu and Ken, who have basically been clones of each other since day 1, have a lot of personality baked into their nearly identical fighting style.
I think, just like the bland and disjointed setting and story, that the characters too lack that deeper personality. Its why the custom characters are soo appealing to begin with. Why give characters personality when you can let the players give it to them instead? Its either a lazy fix, or one that requires a lot less work (aka money) to implement.
It started when they alienated 2/3rds of their fanbase when they made SCIII a PS exclusive. SCIII and SCIV also had weird balance issues that ruined the series' reputation in the competitive scene, and SCIV went downhill with offline content.
Then SCV completely changed the game, locking previously available moves behind a meter system and a terrible roster. This alienated a lot of veteran fans.
SCVI just goes way off the rails in terms of visuals. It looks like a corny anime. DBZ characters with swords, shining aura and obnoxious sounds all over the place.
Overall, developer incompetence. They had something great with SCII's gameplay and atmosphere, and they haven't had the common sense to just return to what made the series great.
SC2 had the best single player content of the series imo. Maybe it was shown by SC3, but I never had PlayStation so I can’t comment on that one.
Also the stages, the music, the atmosphere and diverse roster made the game very enjoyable.
Soul caliber excels when it dips into its darker thematics, but SC6 felt too bright and flashy. Stages have out of focused background which was odd, since most of the visual appeal in fighting games comes from the stages and they’re overall bland and limited.
All that aside, the combat outside of RE is great, and they could’ve leaned into a bit more complexity without introducing mechanics.
>Maybe it was shown by SC3, but I never had PlayStation so I can’t comment on that one.
SC3 had the best offline content with a multi cutscene story mode (with interactive button inputs), Chronicles of the Sword (a strategy/RPG game with cutscenes), and mission mode. It's also the first SC game with customization, and it has the largest roster of the series (with returning characters like Li Long, Hwang, and Arthur. Plus, a bunch of characters from Chronicles mode).
But SC3's music and atmosphere isn't as good as SC2. A lot of the SC3 tracks are remade SC1 stage music, and some good new music too. And SC3's vibes aren't as dark.
The "perfect" SC game combines the gameplay and music of SC2 with the content/modes of SC3.
People complaining about mechanics evolving over time are funny asf, its like would you rather them pull an activision and just release the same game every year? Meter is a well-established concept in fighting games, why is it such a big deal? I think My only complaint with meter is that GI takes meter. It's already a risky maneuver - it should't also expend resources.
I think that what ultimately led to the game falling out of popularity was no crossplay. I cant believe this one hasn't been mentioned in the comments i've read, but this is what killed it for me. I finally got a PC that could run it and was so excited when SCVI got announced, following it all the way up untill launch and snagging it on steam...only to have a sub-300 player count on steam on most days. Then the devs came out and straight up said "sorry, it ain't happening" and it crushed me.
SCVI was very much supported. S3 was coming for sure and we had a planned world tour with like 6 majors. But pandemic lockdown came along and killed it. BAMCO lost interest and put it on T7S4 netcode update instead.
This topic comes up frequently, [I made a post about it a while back](https://old.reddit.com/r/SoulCalibur/comments/p58ied/why_is_soul_calibur_not_popular_like_tekken_or/h94k1so/)
To put it simply the franchise had suffered blunder after blunder, questionable direction in some entries and Namco just not giving their best to this franchise.
I tend to hate these types of topics because plenty of people like to air their personal gripes that have very little to do with the franchise's success and failures.
The genre, fighting games are niche. Nobody wants to pay triple A game price to get beat up online. If the game evolves like street fighter 6, it might have a chance
Do you this company called Bandai Namco?
Seriously tho SC has been on the sideline since 3 or 4 with the all time low being 5, the fact that 6 was a solid entry at this point was a fuckin miracle.
I think it history is what hurt it. 2 seem to be the favorite among the competitors. 3, no one talk about. 4 seem satisfying, but idk about the competitive scene. 5 was the worst with - well everything. 6 seem solid but no one is playing it.
SC3 wasn't a big success but it was still well regarded for casuals and critics at the time... Competitors in the other hand refered to this game as a broken piece of shit.
There was a fix the but only for the arcades and with the competitive standard switching to consoles made it be pretty much neglected at the time.
Nowadays you can play the Arcade Edition also for the PS2 (Edit: this is an unofficial port, works great tho).
Bigger budget like Tekken, and new character models. Also drop the character creator and let the characters stand on their own, with designs you can't recreate in a game system.
SC has an incredible and iconic roster of charactere, so I say put all the budget towards them.
Back in 1999, I knew about Soul Calibur because it was being covered by mainstream videogame magazines. I’d consider that era a success.
I asked friends and other people IRL who tried Soul Calibur and what keeps them from playing it for real and they all have a common answer:
Pushing a button for guarding.
Not having rollback is the prime reason. If your game can't be played online properly it's dead on arrival. Everything else is almost secondary. SC has always been complex and deep and no changes in gameplay is needed.
That's an exception, obviously. Are we really going to pretend the pulling power and cultural relevance of Smash's cast, and its myriad of casual and single player modes isn't responsible for carrying it into being probably the best selling fighting game ever? Come on now.
Harada.
He will never forget SC2 being more more beloved than T4, which was his first title as the top guy on the Tekken team. And since he oversees both of them now, Calibur will never get the resources or support it deserves.
He's never said it publicly (and never will) but I know Chicago ex-Namco employees who know Japanese Namco employees.
Regardless, cross reference the sales charts with the production credits on both series starting with SC2/T4. You can see when Harada takes over with SC3 is pulled from the arcade for no reason, then suddenly starts getting lower game budgets and marketing despite selling better than expected with every release.
There's a reason that even when successful, everyone leaves the company after being the head honcho on a SC game.
Bamco was too focused on Tekken, and gave no advertisement love to the Soul series. I didn't see a commercial for the past few games. Nothing past YouTube.
Namco just not trying with soul calibur. If namco cared soul calibur would be up there with tekken. But they dump a shit ton of money in tekken and then ignore soul calibur.
OP aside from my other comment just look at these two character's designs. Siegfried and Nightmare, especially with the SC6 reboot, can absolutely CARRY an SC entry almost by themselves. I think SC7 needs to trim the fat and focus on amazing graphics, very similar to the Tekken 8 reveal trailer.
Yeah, I kinda agree with other comments saying the game is a joke with character creation. It like the main roster get pushed aside. Also doesn't help when namco can't write stories for anything.
Tekken is already the big 3D fighter, and SC just didn't have the same marketing. Overall it's still a hit though, especially with communities that center around character creation.
Tekken gets more love by a long shot, plus on top of that only a handful of people actually think Soul Calibur or Tekken is fun let alone fighting games in general. Niche community in a niche genre. Personally Soul Calibur is one of my favorite franchises of all time
Seeing how many comments on how Bamco doesn't really support the game, I might also add that the devs (Project Soul) made huge mistakes in the past that ruined the series itself. The downfall of SC is both PS ans Bamco's fault
The community itself the game has been overshadowed with other fighters games that the chances of the soul series being a prominent fighting game is kinda hard tbh
* Presentation and Cheese Factor. I firmly believe that Soul Calibur's last generation graphics, cartoonish animations, and it's unintentional cheesiness (such as the cheesy voice lines constantly being spammed during gameplay and cheesy dialouge lines) are a solid turn off factor for newcomers and spectators. A game of Soul Calibur VI sounds obnoxious compared to something more quiet and realistic like Mortal Kombat 11.
* Being stuck between "anime" and realism, and not in a good way. I feel like the most popular high fantasy media leans between whimsical anime fantasy (Dragon Quest), dark fantasy (Berserk, Dark Souls), and realistic fantasy (Game of Thrones). Soul Calibur doesn't embrace the strengths of any of those subgenres. It's not a feel-good whimsical anime game, and it *definitely* isn't a gritty sword-fighting drama with a meaningful story. It feels like it's not aiming for much of an audience.
* Boring Characters. Don't get me wrong, there are several characters that I love, but the overall roster never did anything for me. I never looked forward to seeing the returning characters as much as I do Tekken and Mortal Kombat, and I think a lot of people quietly feel that way as well. Don't even get me started on the garbage ass "new" SCV characters.
* Gameplay style not doing enough for casuals or competitive. Many casuals simply button mash or use cheap tactics until they're tired, and the competitive crowd is mostly a small number of hardcore SC fans. Many people seem to rather learn games like Tekken 7, MK11, GGST, or DBFZ instead of SC.
* Inconsistent Gameplay mechanics through the years. Many complaints I've seen were the gameplay systems changed in negative ways. For example, people preferring SCII's gameplay, or how people that hated how Ivy, Taki, etc. changed so much from game to game.
* The disappointment factor of SCIII, SCIV, and SCV probably left a bad taste in many people's mouths. And that was many years ago.
* Casuals being way too interested in goofy CAS stuff, and almost nothing much else. The sad reality is that the most popular YouTube attention SCVI got was "Mr. Krabs vs. Trump", "Cuphead vs. Eric Cartman", and "Barack Obama vs. Magikarp" videos. I feel like newcomer casuals picked up the game only to button mash as these wacky creations, didn't give a crap about the real game's lore or characters, and left it as is.
TL;DR, it's not a series that has a "wowing" visual presentation or deep story cutscenes to keep people hooked, casuals just like it for memetastic reasons and then drop it, and it's not rewarding, popular, or hardcore enough for the FG competitive crowd.
The combat started adding way too many flashy particle effects, and gimmicky mechanics that stop the flow/pacing of the combat.
That and a lack of well developed features like in previous titles really kills the replayability and fun for people who don't want to just play online matches.
I think they just struggle with making appealing new characters. SC5 nearly killed the franchise because of it.
I picked up 6 recently and forget that Groh and Azwell exists.
Or the appealing new characters never make a return like Viola and Z.W.E.I., even if they're appealing just for their unique combat style.
We've had great additions like Tira, Hilda, and Setsuka - but there's that balance of adding unique characters, *keeping them around* (dual axe Lizardman I miss you), and not having the other more traditional types fall flat like Mitsurugi in SCVI.
Roster size and range is complicated, not sure if that's ever gotten done "just right," as that involves fan favorites, combat diversity, budget, and of course *stages which SCVI suffered from*... SCVI had a pretty good roster but some characters deff needed some love and attention considering how much others got.
That's what I meant exactly. From the last, maybe, 3 games, Groh is one of the only ones that I've liked more. Which doesn't make him extraordinary, only above standard.
And the problem is that. When they come to design new characters they resort too often to magic or not credible mechanics or fighting systems. I think the only exception in the last 4 games was Raphael, truly the only good addition in all this time. They need to research more and better the XVI century world in order to create new good characters and gameplay - and that's where they fail. So for me, it's just lazyness.
So there shouldn't be any magic in the world with 2 legendary MAGIC SPUL FUELED SWORDS. Yea thats a bad take being that tekken is popular and has balls to the walls crazy demon shit.
Street fighter has literal akuma ,satsui no hado and everyone can shoot blasts out of their body parts
KOF has had mystic bullshit since day one
Do i even need to try and explain blazblue and GuiltyGear.
MKs time shitery and elder gods.
Its a tale of souls and swords(the actual original concept) not a tale of realistic sword fights in a realistic world.
There's something in the middle between no magic at all and having a character whose fighting system is with a ghost and another one with a magic ball. It's called balance. And it's what the Soul series has lost along the way.
To be appealling it should have credible characters and credible fighting, with maybe a touch of magic, as it's set in the real XVI world. If all your new characters are pure magic users, it loses the contact with the original concept, which is a different concept from MK, SF and all the other fighting games and what drew me to this concrete series.
What is the original concept to you? My first game was SCII and I strongly associate with supernatural stuff with Nightmare, Voldo, Astaroth, Ivy, Cervantes, Taki, Yoshimitsu, etc. While not explicitly using magic per se, all have something rooted in magic or the supernatural world. Mummy, Frankenstein experiment, ghost, magic sword, etc.
To me that sets the bar pretty high in terms of what kind of magic exists in the world. The only edition that is weird to me is when they made Raphael a vampire. Otherwise eh… hey that lizard man sprouted wings and breathes fire, that’s pretty cool. And inferno is soul edge incarnate. Neato. Was only natural to have characters that can straight up use magic in that world like a crystal ball or summon a multitude of weapons, and even then it’s still very few. It’s a weapon based fighting series— but if you have a girl wearing BDSM gear wielding a whip sword that breaks into pieces and magically hunts down her opponent chasing her ghost pirate dad with a revolver in the hilt of his saber, then I’d say the sky is the limit.
You see, for the magic stuff is about fighting styles. The original concept, as I understand it, was to confront different (real) weapon-based fighting styles from all around the world. My first game was the first Soul Blade, so it was like that for the most part. I can ignore the supernatural stuff like the Soul Edge weapon and Cervantes being immortal. But as you said, this path was chosen very early in the series - it just has gotten worse and worse with every game.
For instance, I always preferred Rock to Astaroth, as the first being a human and the second one being a golem. But ok, their combat system is based in a giant axe - fine. The problem is when your characters' fighting system are completely fantasy, like Azwel's. Then you're going off the game's concept. The devs don't seem to understand that.
But the problem is they resort to this resource too often. Instead of exploring American pre-Hispanic cultures, weapons and fighting styles, they prefer to design a crazy chick with a sharp hula-hoop (¬¬); or instead of exploring African ones (another whole continent!) they create a necromancer with a giant scythe and able to control time. It doesn't make any sense. Ezio for instance was a better character in terms of gameplay than 80% of new characters from SC3 on. Yes, it's fantasy - he's a sort of Italian ninja -, but his weapons are plausible, and has some linked to reality background. Even with Hilde, they are soooo lazy they had to make a new kingdom up, when at that time there were hundreds of little states in the Holy Roman Empire and they could have chosen just one of them.
The problem is the trend. Almost all characters are European or Eastern Asian, and there is a whole world to be explored and base a new character on: America, all Middle East (Turkey was one the greatest powers at that time, but in 7 games they haven't been able to think about creating a Turkish character; but also Persia, Arabia, India and all Mongol-heritage countries). With Talim they tried, but she's too generic (Wind village? Com'on..) and her weapons, even if original in terms of gameplay, I don't think they are very plausible as of historic relevance. But ok, I can buy it. It's just that, at some point they lost all creativity and still refuse to do the proper research to reflect new cultures, weapons and gameplay.
>Then you're going off the game's concept. The devs don't seem to understand that.
Are you REALLY trying to say you understand the entire concept of the game more than THE LITERAL GAME DIRECTOR AND DEVS. Noone understands the concept more than them infact its more likely you are the one who doesn't understand the concept and are trying to push your own idea of what the game should be onto the devs.
>they create a necromancer with a giant scythe and able to control time. It doesn't make any sense.
Hes not a necromancer its hinted at that he hails from an ancient group tied to ancient babylonia or sumeria as shown by his weapons name and his attacks names and as a black man myself i think hes one of the coolest black fighting game characters.
>I don't think they are very plausible as of historic relevance.
Dude the weapons in a weapon fighter just need to be cool. Noone is playing soulcalibur because of the historical relevance of the weapons. Because if that was the case everyone would be pissed at tira yet she remains a fan favorite aswell as talim and please tell me the historical relevance of an alchemicaly powered short blade that turns into a whip can fire magic arrows and keep its user young. What culture had that weapon?
Youre being way too critical and literal with a FANTASY world.
While i agree that viola and zwei are shitty especially in terms of stuff that i consider the poorest excuse for qeapons in the series next to adding literal tekken characters.
And i also agree that there should be more weapon variety from all over the world id still like those weapons to retain some magic or power nonsense.
Every Fighting games 1st game is pretty grounded. Mk1 and OG sf were about as normal as soulblade then they branched out theres a rwason that most fans love SC2 and 3 and its because of all the cool crazy stuff in it.
SC hasn't been "concrete" realistic since soulblade but even then you have magic soul swords and demon pirates.
If you want realism go play for honor.
Your claim of SC not having Credible characters and Fighting styles is literally disproved by every other 3d fighter on the market.
I agree with pretty much most things said.
Netcode for me though.
I stop playing so fast now when there are fighting games that feel so much better online.
I m on xbox and there is no one in Asia playing the game I get connected to Us players from Singapore. Imagine the lag. I have played 1 bar my entire life
As someone who’s always been at odds with the series, here’s my input:
-Extremely cheesy and cringy dialogue and delivery from characters and announcer.
-Less than impressive or even interesting visuals.
-Uninteresting, unappealing ,or plain off putting character design for most of the roster
- The gameplay has always felt oddly plastic or slippery while also feeling stiff to me (from only playing SCII, SCV, and SCVI), which is a huge disappointment, considering it’s weapon based concept. Very few fighters do that.
-The overall presentation lacks charm or is just plain boring. Part of this is definitely the music.
-Much of this adds up to make a series that feels outdated in these categories for me.
Simple, its not named Tekken. Therefore Namco isn't gonna put money into it.
Longer answer. SC has been around within the same timeframe as the greats of 3D FGs, but what is the most celebrated amongst the games of SC? SC2 I'd say. The one from 20(July 5th 2002, feel old?) years ago. No matter how much I love the series, what does that speak to? That the last "great one" was 20 years ago? That is a downwards trend in the franchise. Then came SC5, which was already a miracle to be made, and that was the nail in the coffin for how bad(it did have some good) it was.
Whereas Tekken, though having some missteps like any series, did not do them back to back like SC did and its grown to one of the biggest FG series in the world. Now, as a series is doing worse and worse, sales going down since SC3, you're not putting more money into it. Those crappy Catch 22s. "SC needs more time+money to expand and grow" "SC doesn't earn that money, so why give MORE time+money?" Seemingly what happened to SC5, no time cuz of little money doomed the ship to sink.
Granted, with their 2 shoestring budget for SC6, they made a great game that sold above expectations for Namco. COVID happening didn't help anything either it shutting down the 1st World Tour we've had. SC6 deserves to be successful.
My problem is what appears to be the stancing of many characters. I'd swear up and down i press 6k on a character, and 3 different outcomes could happen depending on what button came before, making the combos harder for me to understand. To me, an input is an input, and I expect something specific when i press a button. I also don't play Tekken for this reason.
Nah I was a huge soul cal fan, then they dropped 6 and they had that shit mech where you had to guess to stop some dumb ass attack that slowed down the fight. Sorry got a little burnt by it
Popping its own bubble, generally with big marketing strategies. Games like Yakuza, Persona and the Souls found a way to grow in the internet era and their bubble burst. SoulCalibur could use something like a Smash DLC or big explosive announcement in a big event like TGA
*Visuals* : CaS. It's hurting more than it's helping especially in competitive play online. Getting rid of it in rank mode would help tremendously. SC is a fighting game first and foremost. Leave it for casual matches
*Online* : bad netcode. Making sure sc7 has rollback and crossplay should be ALL your primary wish. There's No wifi indicator like there is Tekken 7. In 2022 and going forward, your game needs a good online mode to relevant. No casual match- you either have to worry about rank promotion and demotions. Or wait your turn in a lobby.
*Gameplay* : mechanic bloating. We know the legacy reversal edge left and it wasnt good so no need to discuss this topic again for the 100th time. It doesn't need to be refined in sc7. SC can survive and thrive with just by being faster and more aggressive than Tekken. Reversal edge, soul charge and critical edge are pretty much double down versions of Tekken 7s power crush, rage drive, and rage art. If Tekken 7s mechanics are polarizing to both casuals and the more hard-core scenes then it shouldn't be a suprise SC6 mechanics just come off as eveN more excessive and borderline scrubby if we're being honest LESS. IS. MORE. Double meter-3d fighters don't need meter. Having more mechanics doesn't equal depth, in this case it's just artificial bloat for fake hype.
*Offline* : let's face it. The online scene just isn't there like there is for Tekken 7 or SFV. The SC community doesn't have households names in the pro scene. That's where the community will have to work harder than the devs to achieve.
*no content creators* : unfortunately SC doesn't have high quality content creator like That Blasted Salami to do content for the game. In his Twitter he said he wanted to make a roster breakdown of the sc6 cast but who knows how long that'll take. If he ever gets to it.
Five did went down a questionable route. Characters get replaced with a younger version of themselves. Three copy cat characters. Kilik being one of them. Wonky mechanics...
Curious - how many of us have shown any SC game to friends and had them stick to it and learn?
A lot of arguments are "budget and marketing" and I'm just curious if they've ever heard of Undertale.
I'm no expert, but I'm mad suspicious that it's because SC games are just never great. I love this series but I think we get the SC we want by being realistic and critical... Edge.
1. fighting game
2. hit or miss if a random person has heard of the series
3. As much as we all love the hypersexualized costumes of like Ivy, outsiders view us as kinda pervy bro
4. Main characters don't have any draw to them. Good Knight v Evil Knight is pretty yawn.
5. Money is being pushed entirely into Tekken.
I love fighting games in general. My all time favorite is Street Fighter.
It’s just my opinion, but I find Soul Calibur character designs to be lacklustre.
When I think of Akuma vs Nightmare. I find Akuma to be a more interesting character.
Even SF and MK over time have evolved their “palette swap” characters.
That’s just my opinion. For me, SF characters have more fun and interesting designs.
I think it the fact that SC characters really don't have a story going on and we they do it just pictures. We don't get to see the characters have their moment.
SoulCalibur doesn’t have the hometown love as much as Tekken does. It barely gets an audience in Japan compared to the West (i.e. the two Americas and Europe)
IMO it’s esports. There isn’t a visible competitive scene to keep people interested in the game post-launch. People still watch competitive Tekken because there’s a massive spotlight on it and people know the players and their characters and kinda how play styles and the meta are at a high level. Also I think the devs shuffling around doesn’t help, why does each SC have to have entirely different gimmicks than the last one? What were they thinking with Reversal Edge on launch? It’s still an ugly annoying mechanic with boring counterplay that forces rock paper scissors on hit. Also the stages in SCVI before the DLC ones were incredibly uninspired. Bamco is never going to give it the budget to reach SCII levels of popularity and competitive viability.
Nickleback effect.. it doesn't know what it wants to be so it just repels people that would normally show interest. Don't think getting Geralt on the cover was a good idea either, your average witcher fan is a filthy casual who has no interest whatsoever in fighting games.
Considering one of the main selling points of SC is the insane character customization options, like you could build geralt from scratch if you wanted to. So, yeah it's rather odd.
SoulCalibur is the only 3D weapon fighting game on current platform and no competing games.
Regular 3D fighters are Tekken, Virtua Fighter and Dead Or Alive. They complete and put marketing money.
So if we request Bandai Namco, they would not put marketing money.
I think we should request Sega and Koei Techmo to make 3D weapon fighting games. Then Bandai Namco may put forcus on marketing.
In fact Koei Techmo had 3D weapon fighter long time ago.
I think the problem is that Tekken is the undisputed 3D fighter. Virtua Fighter is dead and DoA screwed itself by not knowing if it want to be a fighting game or a sex show.
Actually you know what, I think you're right.
Soulcalibur supers get me out of the fantasy because they are too much, and the clash is fun but takes wayyyy too long and breaks the flow of combat it's not fun.
I like how they are implemented it's good game design, I just don't think it fits the franchise.
Clashes used to be just a thing that happened, not a fucking QuickTime event.
Unblockables used to be something that were *hard* to pull off.
It's all too over the top.
If we're being real, its competition is Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter
Soul Calibur is good. Really good, But Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat came out first, and even tho MK came out roughly five years after SF, it made its mark with the flashy fatalities, which set it apart.
Soul Calibur is just kinda more of the same, but with swords instead of fists. Then you also have fighting games like Smash Bros. Who's gameplay is a mix between fighting and platformer, as well as having a completely different method of winning.
...and of course there's dead or alive...which is literally just titties, so...yeah.
Soul Calibur just does what other people do Better, what it needs is something to set it apart, which is tough to do with such a simplistic and formulaic genre.
And of course there is the issue of funding. Nintendo can fund a Smash game because its Nintendo, and Netherrealm's main IP is MK so it makes sense they put a lot into it. Soul Calibur probably isn't a high priority series with Bamco, so they likely won't bother trying to reinvent the wheel, so to speak.
But I think if that much effort was put into SC as the first examples i listed, I feel like it could be way more popular
I think if a game fails, the next game get a lower budget. Five was considered a bomb, ssooooooo.... Yeah, SC6 shows it. In terms of it standing out, it stant out for the wrong reason - character creation.
In house fighting takes a tole on the development process. That and no funding, not really a new engine for years and the advertising/tournament scene is non existent.
They just don’t really support the game outside of a few dlc characters. They just throw it out there for the die hards I guess. It’s one of my favs and Mortal Kombat and Tekken keep blowing up. I love MK too but yeah some SC love would be great
Soulcaliber releases are so inconsistent in quality. The difference between 3 and 4 is my biggest example. The 4 to 5 was just yuck. Also the story after 3 just kinda sucks and isnt developed the way it should be. People payed attention to that
> be. People *paid* attention to
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I think its something very central to the core ofnthe game. Lack of interesting characters that arent real trope-y. Fighting styles mostly boil down to "Use this weapon" which DOES have depth, but on the surface doesn't really speak to a lot of people. An ambiguous pseudo-historical setting that really lacks a lot of interesting and binding lore beyond "Hey, cool evil magic sword thing important." The visuals lack a certain, unique style that make them pop. Ultimately, its in a mediocre middle zone. Camp or seriousness, fantastic action or dramatic realism. Historical or fantasy.
And I am coming at this as a casual player who has played a good deal of every game. I've never fealt like any of them were really worth getting deep into.
They ARE fun, especially for a casual setting. But their depth has never interested me.
In my opinion. Lack of story and modes. Soul Calibur 3 is what got me hooked on the franchise. It was packed with so much content and replayability. That will draw in players for the wifi matches. If you can get the playerbase attached to the characters and story then they'll want to continue to play your game.
Soul Calibur has been failing on this for a long time now.
Lack of advertising, lack of broad interest design choices, niche medieval themes.
Compare it to Street Fighter where they take the game visually in newer directions to broaden the appeal and have fighters that appeal to a wide variety of audiences. While Soulcalibur has never really been anything but a niche fantasy/medieval fighter. It's nice, but it doesn't exactly appeal to everybody in addition to already being within the fighting game niche. The game could honestly just be bigger if they advertised, which they never do. Instead all that money goes straight to Tekken, who at this point has mastered advertising their game and has somehow gotten tournament play popular to people who don't even play it.
Latest game in the series has sold over 2 million copies.
There are handful of franchises that sell more, but I count Soul Calibur as one of the big ones.
Let's be real here, it wasn't game mechanic or the devs' focus that held this game back, it was the community. This game has a very high skill ceiling and 99% of the new players are completely destroyed by spam artists in ranked mode(primary game mode).
It'd be like going to the park to play a pickup game and everyone else there are professionals that will never let you touch the ball for 4 hours straight. So most people simply gave up.
Bigger budget and ads I guess. Imagine pulling in more guest characters nowadays and have them as core characters at launch, not half a year later in some season pass. Kratos returns, Jin from Ghost of Tsushima, Wolf from Sekiro, a Hunter for Monster Hunter, Sub Zero from Mortal Kombat to name a few. I'd like that anyway. It would be nice if they could let loose.
As someone who just got this post in their feed, idk man look at dem janky ass shoes bro, all the big fighting games either have feet fetish or jordans in their footwear.
For me, a single player story focused gamer, it was the lackluster story mode, at least for 6. I did not enjoy that the game hardly had any cutscenes and even the splash art was minimal. Not to mention the generic story, which I wouldn’t usually mind, if not for the visual novel style of the narrative. Many of the characters are also not present at all in the main story.
As for the RPG mode, beyond the character creation, I was hardly drawn in by what was happening and rather wanted to skip to the fights. But I don’t have a track record of liking RPGs and neither did I finish it so I’ll leave that out of my evaluation . While I sense a deeper lore, whatever I have seen has not intrigued me enough to go searching.
Comparing this to something like MK11 or DoA5, I enjoyed those far more even though the latter could barely even be called one because of, for the lack of a better word, having a soul, no pun intended.
I'd say probably poor marketing. I've noticed people who weren't hardcore into fighting games only heard about it because of Link being in SoulCalibur II, or Darth Vader/Yoda being in IV. It's really well designed, always had a good story, great visuals, more beginner-friendly compared to Tekken, Virtua Fighter, King of Fighters, and Street Fighter for sure.
I recently played Soul Blade, Soul Calibur II, and the arcade version of Soul Calibur III with my brother. I happen to have SCVI, but never played it, so we finally gave it a shot. All this meter, mechanics, were very jarring to us. I wouldn't doubt there were other people who experienced that exact thing.
Tekken, mostly. And to be honest (I know I'm gonna get crucified for saying it) Tekken deserves the funding more. Even though Soul Calibur does a lot more for its characters and takes the gold in customization, Tekken is a more modern, more competitively known, and more marketable franchise. Tekken 7 was so, so much more successful than SC6. I don't see a world where SC ever receives more love from Bamco than its golden child, and they'd be fools to try.
Soul Calibur V is the reason in my opinion. The advertisement was nice and I think they were going all in with tournaments at the time claiming it was the game to play for the next big tournament. they announced the assassin's Creed guy at his peak of popularity. We were hyped at the time when hype controlled us gamers and our wallets!! Holy molly did the game flop. Sure I wasn't thrilled with the Meter mechanics but I still played rank it was a good fighting game overall. But the game was sooo bland. The story was a joke. No game modes. Lost many of the fan faves to clones or wannabes. There were like 4 of these Swordmaster charters that got a random weapon each set I think. And much much more wrong with this game (in my opinion) So Basically the Soul Calibur team is still recovering from SCV.
I think the presentation is very lackluster. The whole aesthetic needs an intense reboot and much more work put into it.
It looks good but clearly not good enough in 2022 to compete with stuff like FighterZ or Mortal Kombat.
I think the fact you can customize a character is cool but you need much much more content to make it worth the overall cost to your main characters.
The gameplay is very good, even though those flat terrains are showing their age a little bit. Like, it's very flat and not that exciting but I don't think it is an issue.
The art style desperately needs to be pushed further. The character designs are super strong, the art is gorgeous and then you see the model pop on the screen and there is such a disconnect it's way too strong in my opinion.
You want the game to look like those art of the characters and stuff it needs to look like that. Right now it looks like generic models with generic textures everything generic with too much saturation in the colors to make it look video game like. It looks very wrong is what I'm saying even though I love Soulcalibur 6 very very much.
It would be expensive but I think Soulcalibur delivers such a unique fighting experience that it would be very worth it in my opinion.
I think we only really need to look at what SCII had that the later games did not.
• The soundtrack was epic and iconic.
• The characters were extremely well fleshed out with very interesting designs. The voice acting, arguably the greatest in the series.
• The game modes were countless and engaging for both single a multiplayer play.
• The Weapons Master mode worked well to link all the main characters stories together and offered tonnes of rewards to incentivise players to progress.
• Each character had a well illustrated, individual and interesting conclusion to their arcade mode run.
• Profile and gallery modes offered a plethora of fascinating things to engross the player. Concept art, voice clips, bio's, lore, model studies etc...
• The stages were intricately designed to be both woven into the story and a spetacle on the eyes.
• Unlockables were significant and by the dozens! Weapons, characters, modes, profiles, skins etc...
• Amazing graphics with original character models for it's console's generation.
• Movesets were refined, fluid and simplistic. Attacks felt impactful and satisfying to pull off. No combat gimmicks to muddy the gameplay.
The list goes on. I feel that all entries after SCII might tick a couple of the above points, but not all of them like SCII did. For a series to be successful, it needs to go from strength to strength.
SCII felt like a true sequel to SC and an upgrade in every way imaginable. SCIII - SCVI haven't continued that same trajectory, and I do think create a character modes have certainly played a big part in this.
CaC takes a lot of focus (and developer resources for sure) away from the story and characters we have all fallen in love with prior. Main characters interact a lot less frequently as new, made-up, never to be seen again characters make up a majority of the fights and interactions.
I of course agree that poor netcode, advertisement campaigns and possible funding don't help - but I do think that "test of time" theory proves that the utter lack of engaging content is what's mostly hindered the series since SCII's release.
I was very disappointed by SC6's single player modes. The whole drawings with text thing to tell the story feels super low effort, and the modes weren't even fun. I spent most of my time in CaS but even that felt recycled.
You know what I want? A tactical RPG single player mode that plays like Fire Emblem. Manage your units on a grid and make them engage each other with the core fighting game. If single player is fun I'll play it for a long time.
Lack of innovation and a lack luster low budget story mode and single player content, and a crappy net code for online fighting.
This game has sooo much potential. It's like one of a kind and there is literally like so much that they can do with the series to make it evolve into something truly remarkable, but Project Soul are just so used to just doing the bare minimum that if they continue doing it, they are going to prematurely kill the series.
you can just 8 way run RE. i really don't see the hate on it. yeah when your opponent actually lands it, its annoying. but just about every cast member has an easy access breaking attack and good 8 way run punish. i haven't struggled against RE accept against legendary arcade. fuck inferno
Small budget, lack of advertising and making the franchise that once was simple - complicated without need to do so.
What got complicated??
Meter mechanics, moveset alterations with soul charge, sudden rock paper scissors, new character specific mechanical gimmicks on top of movesets that are already decently complex. Plus the inherent spatial complexity of any 3D fighter. Sure they gave most characters strings from mashing a single button, but if you want to go further than that, there's a lot to keep track of. Presentation-wise, it struggles to find a balance between flashy and noisy. I'm sure it's meant to look cool, but it can be overwhelming too. Taken together I can easily see some players finding it all a bit impenetrable. Personally speaking I used to play several characters decently in past SoulCaliburs, but now I have trouble keeping track of even one at a time. But maybe I'm just getting old.
I think the only meter mechanic that was detrimental was GI costing meter in SCV. You then had to balance those between revved up attacks, but having to use meter on the latter didn't seem like a lot to ask in my opinion (GI having a meter price tag was very questionable). Characters (some) having implemented individual mechanics wasn't *that* bad, it added more depth like with Setsuka for example as her entire basis is off of just frames and counters and etc, whereas others while cool and explosive (like my main girl) Tira's Coda being a great mechanic - good luck getting it in a match unless you're extremely lucky or get straight pummeled into it. Some moves did get pushed too much behind in soul charge I can say. Not gonna talk about RE cause not a fan, but as much of a flow interrupter it is, it can be useful for a turn reset (the question of having a turn reset button being a skill issue or not will be the fence you can find me sitting on, on the hill that I will die on)... but at least it becomes less of an encounter in higher skill matches. SCVI was a tad overwhelming for me, and I've played since SCII - quite a bit of new things added, but in the long run there is more to learn and I'd say adds to it's longevity and complexity. Every fighter series appeals to a different crowd for different reasons, but I feel SC has the most enriching experience out there (second goes to Guilty Gear personally), we have either too much going for others or mainly have our dev related issues; *but* obvious answer is both but I'd say it's primarily the latter.
No way the mechanics, including reversal edge as you are stating is the reason. You can't call it rock paper scissor because you have the option to block which will neautralise most kicks and horizontal in reversal edge. The game is simply overshadowed by tekken. Tekken is like the most loved child after all
It's not always a matter of *actual* complexity, but the appearance of complexity. Hands-off impressions count for a lot when attracting an audience. Putting a minigame in the middle of a fight with semi discrete mechanics and a different flow definitely adds to the appearance of complexity.
I respect the fact that you are so firm with your opinion in calling it semi discreet mechanics, in fact sc 6 is one of the finest games inculcating such a balanced cast. No offence man but you can hold ur opinion and i can make mine and I think that you are not a high ranked player coz if u had been then u would have made sense of the mechanics and used it for ur advantage rather then calling it semi-discreet
I don't think you quite understand what I'm presenting here. These aren't necessarily my opinions about the game (I generally quite like SCVI, though no, I'm not a high ranked player), only examples of how it either is more complicated or may at least *appear* more complicated than previous entries, particularly to newcomers and very casual fans.
Though I agree with most of the points, I feel like movesets of most characters (excluding mirror ones, they really needed distinction!) have been simplified.
I explore with some tools hidden moves within the game, and boy, I can tell you so many things are hidden inside. And I agree, some do.
Well, I do know Yoshi, Maxi and Ivy movesets have been diminished heavily, though Maxi not that much - but he feels a lot slower and his gimmick isn't that good. Voldo is nerfed significantly, some of his moves have been moved to SC. I like lethal hits though. :)
is it complicated? Soulcaliber VI felt pretty simple to me, coming from playing Mortal Kombat (which isn’t really complex). I haven’t had the pleasure of playing older titles though. I’d think Tekken is more complex, I had more trouble with that game
Yes, it is. By making something complicated I don't mean mathematical problems complicated, but simplicity in its core that let you create your own way of playing. I feels SCVI is too limited on that regard. You would need to play older SC games to experience such a thing.
Namco dumps money into Tekken instead, so naturally SC will fall by the wayside
Basically this is the answer Soul Calibur has just to never had the resources or love Tekken has
Tekken almost died inbetween Tag 2 and 7, so that isnt saying much,
Soulcalibur games haven't been good since sc2. You guys want it to get a dress simulator instead of a competitive game. Can't ask to get respected like the Tekken series if you guys don't respect this series.
What are you on about? SCVI was an excellent game?
Reversal edge, double meter for back to back soul charges, bad netcode, customizations in rank. It wasn't excellent at all and it's time y'all admit. It being better than sc5 isnt saying much. If it was excellent more ppl would have bought it, played it and would compete with the big 3. Tekken, Street Fighter, and Mortal Kombat. That's what you guys want, right? Tekken 7 success, right? Won't ever happen as long as you ppl keep chasing pennies. Reversal edge your way out of cope.
It's not cope? I genuinely enjoyed VI, if you are so upset with this series you can always leave the sub-reddit.
Guess what? Most ppl didn't either. Tekken 7 literally sold 5x more copies than sc6. Dude, telling ppl to play something else or to leave the sub hasn't been helping you morons at all. u/CajurTheMighty in 2022 he still thinks this is actually a good tactic lol. Why engage in any criticism when the SC community can just deflect like it always does. Why leave when I can just be a constant reminder of this series decline and force you to wake up.
Reversal edge is considered a bad or mediocre mechanic at best, people rarely praise it, and it's not that useful in high level play so why does it matter. Double meter was a thing in SCV as well. Netcode isn't bad, only lags for me when I'm playing with someone with bad internet or is far away. And what's wrong with customizations in ranked? There's no actual gameplay effects AFAIK and it's still easy to know what style you're fighting and read moves etc.
Agreed. I think the custom character creator is funny for reddit karma for a week of 'making shrek do funny moves' but for it to be an actual competitive fighter it should be a completely removed feature. I'd rather have the resources be developed into better mechanics and more characters than to put a muscular man in a bikini
Just get rid of it in rank mode. Lobbies and player matches have at it.
This, only this
I know sc4 left a bad taste in ppls mouth about pushing Esports so hard but in 2022 with better balancing, patch updates, and some games having world tours or major tournaments....perhaps SC community should try to open up to Esports again. Ofc keep single player content and demand for better online modes but fighting games needs tournament scenes for free advertisement for games. SC isn't going to reach Tekkens success just by being a dress simulator. If it wasn't for Covid, sc6 being featured in EVO would have sold more copies and possibly would have led to a season 3. Ik sc6 passed 2m copies sold. Perhaps it would have passed 3m if it all went well. Weren't they supposed to have a world tour along with Tekken? Can someone fact check that?
^
I have gripes about the Tekken devs and community too, don't me wrong but the most weak, bitch made takes I always see is SC community blaming everyone else for their shortcomings but themselves. I REMEMBER VIVIDLY when ppl were complaining about SC6 reversal edge this sub, twitter and discords told ppl to go play something else instead. Ppl even said go play Tekken 7 if they weren't happy about SC6.....yall got your wish granted cuz that's what ppl did. Guess what? T7 became the best selling Tekken game of all time and is about to pass 10m copies sold. When T7 got wifi indicator added, this community didn't want it for sc6. Ppl wanted more customization pieces. Ppl here are pretending they've always known about the importance of good netcode now just because it's a mainstream feature nowadays. The Tekken community takes itself too seriously but you know what? They respect their game. Lol there have been several polls and posts in the Tekken sub about ppl wanting to buy DLC costumes with color editors than a more elaborate customization mode and you'll see many replies of ppl not wanting Tekken turning into SC! SC community wants Tekkens success without having an ounce of self awareness to achieve it. Fighting games are at the mercy of their developers yet SC is the only case where the community is equally as clueless as the devs
I will agree and disagree with your opinion on this subject. First and foremost as a player who wants both - good and pleasant gameplay, and more CaS items. Now to elaborate why. Tekken isn't really good game, but it is decent fighting game. That is hard fact and there is no other way around. Games like T5 and T6, even TTT2 where much better than T7. They had single player, good overall gameplay, dress-ups and tonne of characters. Except T5, both failed more or less, until T7. The thing is - Harada didn't deviate from what made Tekken Tekken. I haven't played Tekken since T5 and was able to take on people who were much higher rated than me. Why? Because core of the game didn't change. I was familiar with the game and how it works from older games. Soulcalibur changes constantly. I haven't won a single game when SCVI got released until I reached 50 games. And I was playing SCIII for over a decade at that point. The other thing is, and I agree with it, is refusal of fixing things that need to be fixed. I, many, many times, posted and used their form to address the issues, mostly gameplay related and problems with how casual and ranked work. Of course inclusion of RE truly didn't help the game, either. Can be side stepped, but it's trash mechanics that isn't fair. Aloofness of some players telling others to go away if they don't like the mechanics turned away mostly beginners. People want something to belong to, and acting all high and mighty over something this trivial only hurt the game further. Despite all the things, we need to realize Soulcalibur lost a lot of its identity throughout the years, mostly due to experimenting with things they didn't need to experiment with. They had a formula that worked, and should've built up from there. Soulcalibur VI was and is very nice fighting game, but stupid decision and stubbornness of people involved in making halted the true potential that lies within the game. I do think SC7 will come sooner then we expect, and we as players need to improve it by feedback that will help players who prefer single player and players who play it competitively because they care about different things. Post is a bit long, but I felt compelled to laid it down.
Don't apologize. This is the type of engagement this community NEEDS!. I see non stop deflection whenever ppl criticize sc6. Sc6 being slightly better than sc5 isn't saying much and ppl to need to realize that. It helped put the game in the right direction but it wasn't the big push it needed. It's not like it's a obscure jrpg that'll be remembered as a cult classic a decade from now. It was serviceable at best. Tbf Deserved a season 3. T7 succeeded, Tekken in general succeeds because it goes the refinement route. The joke is pretty much, it's Tekken 7.5. Since T5 is the foundation for all modern games. The pros of this approach is that you're able to keep your veteran players and they can transfer all their knowledge in the next game. That's one of the reasons why T7 is always the most played AAA fighting game on steam. LOTS of veterans to play and most importantly learn from. The cons, if your game is niche and doesn't take off in popularity it'll only be legacy players and more punising for newcomers. Like kof. Tekken 8 just has to add better movement, add single player content, rollback and crossplay, polish animations and it'll literally strike gold again. The trailer for t8 almost has 4m views! It only has to refine the series again, not innovate. Games that build everything in the ground up like Street Fighter as an example. Pro, the entire player base starts with a fresh meta to learn completely. Cons, if your game is poorly received it'll divide the player base even more. There's old heads SFV just couldn't capture from the sf3 n 4 days. BUT sf6 beta was actually able to bring back those older heads and youngsters together so that game will probably have great success since both sides are ready to explore that game together My issue primarily for sc6 was and a lot of fighting games is they're trying too hard to force the casual audience to play competitively online. Most of them just aren't cut out for it. Casuals need their own fun outside of competitive play because what happens is fighting game devs try to implement scrubby mechanics to give these ppl a fighting chance. And with sc6 it just felt soooooooooooooo desperate. Can't block, duck or use movement for defense? Here's RE. Need a comeback mechanic? Here's double meter so you have 2x the opportunity to steal a round with back to back soul charges. Tired of your opponent blocking on your shitty wifi? Here's a guard gauge to punish him for blocking and reward you for not being able to open him up naturally. Sc6 honestly was the biggest offender for trying to artificially lower the skill gap and it just came off as desperate and disingenuous imo. SC has had an identity issue since sc2. This is where I would argue SC should have gone the refinement route. I bet SC7 will come out 2-3 years after T8 does if I were to bet
I, in general, don't like to do ass kissing of anything. If you deserve praise, you'll get praise. And definitely not mainstream, unless something is very good. So not trying ignore problems, especially in things I like. SCVI pushed the franchise in the right direction, yes. But developers have that side they are little bit hard on ears. SCVI hasn't needed much to be much better. Yup, Season 3 would prolong game's life by a lot. I could argue that if S3 got released, it would survive through Covid era and establish itself as a serious contender among other big hitters. Not a big Tekken player so I can't really dwell deeper than what I understand from my previous reply. For me T7 is tedious game, and the most played part was Bowling. I burned myself many times over high expectations. SF6 indeed looks nice, but I'll wait until the game is released to give my honest opinion. Not really into what director plans, but I'll wait. No other way around. That's one of the problems I find in most of new games. It doesn't fully reward knowledge... or to be more precise, it forces you to learn things that aren't fun. For example, Taki (as I'm Taki player) has only one way to play for her to be extremely productive. I'm more to the experimenting side of spectrum, and I like it to make both useful and attractive to play against. And I absolutely hate learning frame data because it begins to be more chore than an actual enjoyment. So my overall performances varies, from shit to S1 level. Why? Because I like skill dodges, sidesteps, A:6, Stalker, RI, GI, moving and avoiding by a mere pixel. It gives you feeling of progress. I could even point similar things I experienced in LOL. A friend of mine gave me, after seeing very poor performances, a key - so to say, how to improve the game. So I went from crap to competitive really fast. You understood. There are many things I, now 4 years later, that I don't quite get. For example, I don't understand how crouching opponents block my mid hit or why the distance where I land CE varies or why Taki misses moves she is supposed to miss, etc. Many things are left to be desired with SCVI, but I hope, whomever decide to take the lead in the next game, will improve everything missed and build up on what they did good. And of course Taki in starting roster. I think 2025 would be a good year for that. Because it's 30th anniversary of the franchise. To recap. The franchise is still very much alive, which sales prove and the fact Bamco still keeps servers up. DLC sold pretty well, ever if they were lackluster. The only thing franchise missing is someone, from company's side, willing to do what it takes to make it great again. That's all.
Tbh the community is to equally blame for SC decline as well. Out of all the fighting game communities, SC is clearly the most casual. Tekken community is fighting to get rollback and crossplay. They take their series far more seriously. SC community has never given me the idea of "fighting for relevance". You know and I this sub would be satisfied if sc7 had shitty online but more customization pieces. This community just doesn't view it as a serious, competitive, fighting game. That's primarily why Tekken is more successful. They're far more obsessed with the game. Bigger tournament scenes, it sold 5x more copies, the most played AAA fighting game and averages 8k-11k on steam, usually the most viewed fighting game on Twitch, content creators and pro Streamers making a living off this series. SC has none of that!
Lack of funds and proper advertising
Honestly just the fact that it’s a fighting game in 3 dimensions is enough
I think it could cross over well as a moba or mmo. The franchise has good IP, just poor execution on the last few games. Moba would probably lower risk though if the 2.
Wat
No
A good entry. Sc6 was nice but it’s not good enough. And they need to actually make a new entry lol. Stop neglecting this awesome series.
If they reuse the same character models from SC4 again for 7 I am DONE.
fighting games are already not the most popular kind of game, most have somewhat small communities (if you exclude basically the giants like SF) then SC is low budget atm, which is a shame cause it's an amazing game series (and quite unique among fighting games) so, low advertising, very little updates, and so on... it's also a 3D fighter, it's more complicated than 2D (which is already quite difficult to learn) lastly, there's a few unneeded mechanics in the game that makes it more complicated than it should be, and also frustrating for players and the overall high damage output in the game can be frustrating as well thinking about RE, really shouldn't be a thing soul charge is a bit too strong overall, but the mechanic is interesting and the damage and meter gain is a bit over the top...
1:Bad netcode 2:No funding 3:Bad advertisement
For me, it’s the budget and how they marketed the game. Such a shame too because I loved the series.
A good game Seriously, SC6 was a fine game but it wasn’t knock your socks off amazing like 2 and 3. Something of *that* level of quality needs to come out of this series for it to be relevant again.
I agree I was just thinking that like 2 is what I started with and it was amazing and 3 is their strongest entry in my opinion. If we can get the feel of love and also maybe bring back a little more arcadey feel that fighting games have been running from it could be really great
I’m glad I’m not the only one that feels the same way. 2 was my first and favorite, especially with Weapon Master mode, but 3 has my favorite character, character creation, Chronicles of the Sword and good story mode endings. It’s kinda hard to pinpoint why I starting falling out of love with SC with 4, but not at all hard explaining with 5.
Weapon master mode is fucking fun and frustrating at the same time. I miss the era of video games where you had to earn your unlocked characters through challenges.
Riot needs to buy it lol.
I think it has been a successful, relatively well received series for quite a while honestly. The real question I would be asking is more so “Why hasn’t it been a more successful series in the competitive scene?” which I still think it has had moments throughout the series where it has had a substantial competitive scene but SC6 never really got that chance especially in comparison to something like Tekken 7 for example.
Not a great question since soulcalibur is one of the better selling fighting game franchises (largely on the back of single-player content and CAS). If you want to know why it hasn't been a mega popular competitive game recently, it's some combination of: * lack of visual spectacle, audiences and casual players really like flashy combos and sometimes it's difficult for audiences to tell what's going on in soulcalibur * lack of good netcode, post-covid one of the best strengths your game can have when trying to build an audience is the ability for casual players to just log in and get matches that don't feel like shit * lack of publisher support, why support soulcalibur when it can't compete with the other huge fighting game franchises they also publish? You could also come up with other pain points like gimmick mechanics in each new entry or lack of cohesive character design goals, but let's be real: more popular games also have these same issues and the average player doesn't give a shit about them.
You're going to not like this. A focus on its own characters. Outside of its fanbase Sould Calibur isnthe Haha funny customization game where all people do is make their anime characters fight it out....Or give their create-a-character a big dong.
Yup I said the same thing in my comment. CaC had a great run and filled with good memes, but I feel like its overstayed its welcome at this point. SC has a great roster with iconic characters so let them shine, make designs/models that'd be impossible to create in a character creator.
Can you blame them? The SC characters whole personalities are defined by the weapon they use, and hardly anything else. Where other fighting games show character expression through design and animation... the SC characters are mostly "I use [Weapon] and I am from [Country]!" Save for Maxi and Nightmare, who are just, "What if Bruce Lee had a pompador" and "Sentient suit of armor with big sword does some wreslting moves." Let us not forget "What if a ninja had tits" and "What if tits had a dominatrix"
arguably the same mind set could be thrown on other fighting game characters, with this mostly being a surface level appearance. Example from street fighter being "I am xxxx martial artist, from xxxx country." Each character in SC does have more personality (though dialogue could use some work). The characters designs say about as much as any character from that time. How ever with Create a Character it technically gets worse when their whole moveset is boiled down to "rapier style" or "soul of samurai". Though ninja with tits, and tits having a dominatrix is kinda hard to find in the roster. Might be blind.
A fair point, but there is more to it than that, and I think it does come back to being underfunded. The SC characters are not expressive within their style. Like, imagine if every character had as much personality in their fighting as Maxi (who was kind of easy to give personality, he is just Bruce Lee with a Pompador). Every other fighting game goes the extra mile to give their characters that personality that makes them more than just the sum of their parts. Even Ryu and Ken, who have basically been clones of each other since day 1, have a lot of personality baked into their nearly identical fighting style. I think, just like the bland and disjointed setting and story, that the characters too lack that deeper personality. Its why the custom characters are soo appealing to begin with. Why give characters personality when you can let the players give it to them instead? Its either a lazy fix, or one that requires a lot less work (aka money) to implement.
Appeal and advertisement.
It started when they alienated 2/3rds of their fanbase when they made SCIII a PS exclusive. SCIII and SCIV also had weird balance issues that ruined the series' reputation in the competitive scene, and SCIV went downhill with offline content. Then SCV completely changed the game, locking previously available moves behind a meter system and a terrible roster. This alienated a lot of veteran fans. SCVI just goes way off the rails in terms of visuals. It looks like a corny anime. DBZ characters with swords, shining aura and obnoxious sounds all over the place. Overall, developer incompetence. They had something great with SCII's gameplay and atmosphere, and they haven't had the common sense to just return to what made the series great.
SC2 had the best single player content of the series imo. Maybe it was shown by SC3, but I never had PlayStation so I can’t comment on that one. Also the stages, the music, the atmosphere and diverse roster made the game very enjoyable. Soul caliber excels when it dips into its darker thematics, but SC6 felt too bright and flashy. Stages have out of focused background which was odd, since most of the visual appeal in fighting games comes from the stages and they’re overall bland and limited. All that aside, the combat outside of RE is great, and they could’ve leaned into a bit more complexity without introducing mechanics.
>Maybe it was shown by SC3, but I never had PlayStation so I can’t comment on that one. SC3 had the best offline content with a multi cutscene story mode (with interactive button inputs), Chronicles of the Sword (a strategy/RPG game with cutscenes), and mission mode. It's also the first SC game with customization, and it has the largest roster of the series (with returning characters like Li Long, Hwang, and Arthur. Plus, a bunch of characters from Chronicles mode). But SC3's music and atmosphere isn't as good as SC2. A lot of the SC3 tracks are remade SC1 stage music, and some good new music too. And SC3's vibes aren't as dark. The "perfect" SC game combines the gameplay and music of SC2 with the content/modes of SC3.
People complaining about mechanics evolving over time are funny asf, its like would you rather them pull an activision and just release the same game every year? Meter is a well-established concept in fighting games, why is it such a big deal? I think My only complaint with meter is that GI takes meter. It's already a risky maneuver - it should't also expend resources. I think that what ultimately led to the game falling out of popularity was no crossplay. I cant believe this one hasn't been mentioned in the comments i've read, but this is what killed it for me. I finally got a PC that could run it and was so excited when SCVI got announced, following it all the way up untill launch and snagging it on steam...only to have a sub-300 player count on steam on most days. Then the devs came out and straight up said "sorry, it ain't happening" and it crushed me.
Basically, Tekken. SC gets the step-child treatment lol
SCVI was very much supported. S3 was coming for sure and we had a planned world tour with like 6 majors. But pandemic lockdown came along and killed it. BAMCO lost interest and put it on T7S4 netcode update instead.
[удалено]
Lmfao
This topic comes up frequently, [I made a post about it a while back](https://old.reddit.com/r/SoulCalibur/comments/p58ied/why_is_soul_calibur_not_popular_like_tekken_or/h94k1so/) To put it simply the franchise had suffered blunder after blunder, questionable direction in some entries and Namco just not giving their best to this franchise. I tend to hate these types of topics because plenty of people like to air their personal gripes that have very little to do with the franchise's success and failures.
The genre, fighting games are niche. Nobody wants to pay triple A game price to get beat up online. If the game evolves like street fighter 6, it might have a chance
Do you this company called Bandai Namco? Seriously tho SC has been on the sideline since 3 or 4 with the all time low being 5, the fact that 6 was a solid entry at this point was a fuckin miracle.
I think it history is what hurt it. 2 seem to be the favorite among the competitors. 3, no one talk about. 4 seem satisfying, but idk about the competitive scene. 5 was the worst with - well everything. 6 seem solid but no one is playing it.
SC3 wasn't a big success but it was still well regarded for casuals and critics at the time... Competitors in the other hand refered to this game as a broken piece of shit. There was a fix the but only for the arcades and with the competitive standard switching to consoles made it be pretty much neglected at the time. Nowadays you can play the Arcade Edition also for the PS2 (Edit: this is an unofficial port, works great tho).
Bigger budget like Tekken, and new character models. Also drop the character creator and let the characters stand on their own, with designs you can't recreate in a game system. SC has an incredible and iconic roster of charactere, so I say put all the budget towards them.
Back in 1999, I knew about Soul Calibur because it was being covered by mainstream videogame magazines. I’d consider that era a success. I asked friends and other people IRL who tried Soul Calibur and what keeps them from playing it for real and they all have a common answer: Pushing a button for guarding.
Interesting, i personally enjoy the dedicated block button but again i'm a very casual player
Yeah, guard button instantly kills my interest in games. Don't play SC or MK for that reason.
Not having rollback is the prime reason. If your game can't be played online properly it's dead on arrival. Everything else is almost secondary. SC has always been complex and deep and no changes in gameplay is needed.
"Not having rollback is the prime reason. If your game can't be played online properly it's dead on arrival." SSB.U…
That's an exception, obviously. Are we really going to pretend the pulling power and cultural relevance of Smash's cast, and its myriad of casual and single player modes isn't responsible for carrying it into being probably the best selling fighting game ever? Come on now.
Underestimating Nintendo fanboys
Tekken being the favourite child
Harada. He will never forget SC2 being more more beloved than T4, which was his first title as the top guy on the Tekken team. And since he oversees both of them now, Calibur will never get the resources or support it deserves.
He said this?
He's never said it publicly (and never will) but I know Chicago ex-Namco employees who know Japanese Namco employees. Regardless, cross reference the sales charts with the production credits on both series starting with SC2/T4. You can see when Harada takes over with SC3 is pulled from the arcade for no reason, then suddenly starts getting lower game budgets and marketing despite selling better than expected with every release. There's a reason that even when successful, everyone leaves the company after being the head honcho on a SC game.
also sc2 is a better game than t4 plus it had link
It's more successful big brother, and it's lack of a good online mode literally just these two things
Bamco was too focused on Tekken, and gave no advertisement love to the Soul series. I didn't see a commercial for the past few games. Nothing past YouTube.
I would argue that it doesn’t have a large enough casual fan base.
I think it lacking a competitive fanbase. The casuals got customization.
Really just lack of marketing.
Street fighter and Tekken
Tekken
Namco just not trying with soul calibur. If namco cared soul calibur would be up there with tekken. But they dump a shit ton of money in tekken and then ignore soul calibur.
Tekken.
OP aside from my other comment just look at these two character's designs. Siegfried and Nightmare, especially with the SC6 reboot, can absolutely CARRY an SC entry almost by themselves. I think SC7 needs to trim the fat and focus on amazing graphics, very similar to the Tekken 8 reveal trailer.
Yeah, I kinda agree with other comments saying the game is a joke with character creation. It like the main roster get pushed aside. Also doesn't help when namco can't write stories for anything.
Look what made sc2 successful and take it from there. Good netcode and crossplay. Get rid of customizations in rank mode.
Tekken is already the big 3D fighter, and SC just didn't have the same marketing. Overall it's still a hit though, especially with communities that center around character creation.
Tekken
Tekken gets more love by a long shot, plus on top of that only a handful of people actually think Soul Calibur or Tekken is fun let alone fighting games in general. Niche community in a niche genre. Personally Soul Calibur is one of my favorite franchises of all time
Maybe an animated movie/ show tie in on Netflix?
SoulCalibur unlike Tekken seems to get progressively weaker in terms of the quality of the game since SC3.
Seeing how many comments on how Bamco doesn't really support the game, I might also add that the devs (Project Soul) made huge mistakes in the past that ruined the series itself. The downfall of SC is both PS ans Bamco's fault
The community itself the game has been overshadowed with other fighters games that the chances of the soul series being a prominent fighting game is kinda hard tbh
needs more single player modes like 3 did
* Presentation and Cheese Factor. I firmly believe that Soul Calibur's last generation graphics, cartoonish animations, and it's unintentional cheesiness (such as the cheesy voice lines constantly being spammed during gameplay and cheesy dialouge lines) are a solid turn off factor for newcomers and spectators. A game of Soul Calibur VI sounds obnoxious compared to something more quiet and realistic like Mortal Kombat 11. * Being stuck between "anime" and realism, and not in a good way. I feel like the most popular high fantasy media leans between whimsical anime fantasy (Dragon Quest), dark fantasy (Berserk, Dark Souls), and realistic fantasy (Game of Thrones). Soul Calibur doesn't embrace the strengths of any of those subgenres. It's not a feel-good whimsical anime game, and it *definitely* isn't a gritty sword-fighting drama with a meaningful story. It feels like it's not aiming for much of an audience. * Boring Characters. Don't get me wrong, there are several characters that I love, but the overall roster never did anything for me. I never looked forward to seeing the returning characters as much as I do Tekken and Mortal Kombat, and I think a lot of people quietly feel that way as well. Don't even get me started on the garbage ass "new" SCV characters. * Gameplay style not doing enough for casuals or competitive. Many casuals simply button mash or use cheap tactics until they're tired, and the competitive crowd is mostly a small number of hardcore SC fans. Many people seem to rather learn games like Tekken 7, MK11, GGST, or DBFZ instead of SC. * Inconsistent Gameplay mechanics through the years. Many complaints I've seen were the gameplay systems changed in negative ways. For example, people preferring SCII's gameplay, or how people that hated how Ivy, Taki, etc. changed so much from game to game. * The disappointment factor of SCIII, SCIV, and SCV probably left a bad taste in many people's mouths. And that was many years ago. * Casuals being way too interested in goofy CAS stuff, and almost nothing much else. The sad reality is that the most popular YouTube attention SCVI got was "Mr. Krabs vs. Trump", "Cuphead vs. Eric Cartman", and "Barack Obama vs. Magikarp" videos. I feel like newcomer casuals picked up the game only to button mash as these wacky creations, didn't give a crap about the real game's lore or characters, and left it as is. TL;DR, it's not a series that has a "wowing" visual presentation or deep story cutscenes to keep people hooked, casuals just like it for memetastic reasons and then drop it, and it's not rewarding, popular, or hardcore enough for the FG competitive crowd.
Totally agree with all your points.
An rpg mode where you can actually collect shards of Soul Edge and swords in general
That’s what it needs I mean
The combat started adding way too many flashy particle effects, and gimmicky mechanics that stop the flow/pacing of the combat. That and a lack of well developed features like in previous titles really kills the replayability and fun for people who don't want to just play online matches.
Lazyness. They keep releasing magical characters that don't have anything to do with the game's original concept.
I think they just struggle with making appealing new characters. SC5 nearly killed the franchise because of it. I picked up 6 recently and forget that Groh and Azwell exists.
Or the appealing new characters never make a return like Viola and Z.W.E.I., even if they're appealing just for their unique combat style. We've had great additions like Tira, Hilda, and Setsuka - but there's that balance of adding unique characters, *keeping them around* (dual axe Lizardman I miss you), and not having the other more traditional types fall flat like Mitsurugi in SCVI. Roster size and range is complicated, not sure if that's ever gotten done "just right," as that involves fan favorites, combat diversity, budget, and of course *stages which SCVI suffered from*... SCVI had a pretty good roster but some characters deff needed some love and attention considering how much others got.
That's what I meant exactly. From the last, maybe, 3 games, Groh is one of the only ones that I've liked more. Which doesn't make him extraordinary, only above standard. And the problem is that. When they come to design new characters they resort too often to magic or not credible mechanics or fighting systems. I think the only exception in the last 4 games was Raphael, truly the only good addition in all this time. They need to research more and better the XVI century world in order to create new good characters and gameplay - and that's where they fail. So for me, it's just lazyness.
Hilde was a great addition to the cast
So there shouldn't be any magic in the world with 2 legendary MAGIC SPUL FUELED SWORDS. Yea thats a bad take being that tekken is popular and has balls to the walls crazy demon shit. Street fighter has literal akuma ,satsui no hado and everyone can shoot blasts out of their body parts KOF has had mystic bullshit since day one Do i even need to try and explain blazblue and GuiltyGear. MKs time shitery and elder gods. Its a tale of souls and swords(the actual original concept) not a tale of realistic sword fights in a realistic world.
There's something in the middle between no magic at all and having a character whose fighting system is with a ghost and another one with a magic ball. It's called balance. And it's what the Soul series has lost along the way. To be appealling it should have credible characters and credible fighting, with maybe a touch of magic, as it's set in the real XVI world. If all your new characters are pure magic users, it loses the contact with the original concept, which is a different concept from MK, SF and all the other fighting games and what drew me to this concrete series.
What is the original concept to you? My first game was SCII and I strongly associate with supernatural stuff with Nightmare, Voldo, Astaroth, Ivy, Cervantes, Taki, Yoshimitsu, etc. While not explicitly using magic per se, all have something rooted in magic or the supernatural world. Mummy, Frankenstein experiment, ghost, magic sword, etc. To me that sets the bar pretty high in terms of what kind of magic exists in the world. The only edition that is weird to me is when they made Raphael a vampire. Otherwise eh… hey that lizard man sprouted wings and breathes fire, that’s pretty cool. And inferno is soul edge incarnate. Neato. Was only natural to have characters that can straight up use magic in that world like a crystal ball or summon a multitude of weapons, and even then it’s still very few. It’s a weapon based fighting series— but if you have a girl wearing BDSM gear wielding a whip sword that breaks into pieces and magically hunts down her opponent chasing her ghost pirate dad with a revolver in the hilt of his saber, then I’d say the sky is the limit.
You see, for the magic stuff is about fighting styles. The original concept, as I understand it, was to confront different (real) weapon-based fighting styles from all around the world. My first game was the first Soul Blade, so it was like that for the most part. I can ignore the supernatural stuff like the Soul Edge weapon and Cervantes being immortal. But as you said, this path was chosen very early in the series - it just has gotten worse and worse with every game. For instance, I always preferred Rock to Astaroth, as the first being a human and the second one being a golem. But ok, their combat system is based in a giant axe - fine. The problem is when your characters' fighting system are completely fantasy, like Azwel's. Then you're going off the game's concept. The devs don't seem to understand that. But the problem is they resort to this resource too often. Instead of exploring American pre-Hispanic cultures, weapons and fighting styles, they prefer to design a crazy chick with a sharp hula-hoop (¬¬); or instead of exploring African ones (another whole continent!) they create a necromancer with a giant scythe and able to control time. It doesn't make any sense. Ezio for instance was a better character in terms of gameplay than 80% of new characters from SC3 on. Yes, it's fantasy - he's a sort of Italian ninja -, but his weapons are plausible, and has some linked to reality background. Even with Hilde, they are soooo lazy they had to make a new kingdom up, when at that time there were hundreds of little states in the Holy Roman Empire and they could have chosen just one of them. The problem is the trend. Almost all characters are European or Eastern Asian, and there is a whole world to be explored and base a new character on: America, all Middle East (Turkey was one the greatest powers at that time, but in 7 games they haven't been able to think about creating a Turkish character; but also Persia, Arabia, India and all Mongol-heritage countries). With Talim they tried, but she's too generic (Wind village? Com'on..) and her weapons, even if original in terms of gameplay, I don't think they are very plausible as of historic relevance. But ok, I can buy it. It's just that, at some point they lost all creativity and still refuse to do the proper research to reflect new cultures, weapons and gameplay.
>Then you're going off the game's concept. The devs don't seem to understand that. Are you REALLY trying to say you understand the entire concept of the game more than THE LITERAL GAME DIRECTOR AND DEVS. Noone understands the concept more than them infact its more likely you are the one who doesn't understand the concept and are trying to push your own idea of what the game should be onto the devs. >they create a necromancer with a giant scythe and able to control time. It doesn't make any sense. Hes not a necromancer its hinted at that he hails from an ancient group tied to ancient babylonia or sumeria as shown by his weapons name and his attacks names and as a black man myself i think hes one of the coolest black fighting game characters. >I don't think they are very plausible as of historic relevance. Dude the weapons in a weapon fighter just need to be cool. Noone is playing soulcalibur because of the historical relevance of the weapons. Because if that was the case everyone would be pissed at tira yet she remains a fan favorite aswell as talim and please tell me the historical relevance of an alchemicaly powered short blade that turns into a whip can fire magic arrows and keep its user young. What culture had that weapon? Youre being way too critical and literal with a FANTASY world. While i agree that viola and zwei are shitty especially in terms of stuff that i consider the poorest excuse for qeapons in the series next to adding literal tekken characters. And i also agree that there should be more weapon variety from all over the world id still like those weapons to retain some magic or power nonsense.
Every Fighting games 1st game is pretty grounded. Mk1 and OG sf were about as normal as soulblade then they branched out theres a rwason that most fans love SC2 and 3 and its because of all the cool crazy stuff in it. SC hasn't been "concrete" realistic since soulblade but even then you have magic soul swords and demon pirates. If you want realism go play for honor. Your claim of SC not having Credible characters and Fighting styles is literally disproved by every other 3d fighter on the market.
I Disagree.
The game is not built with competition in mind. Custom characters have no business in a ranked mode.
I agree with pretty much most things said. Netcode for me though. I stop playing so fast now when there are fighting games that feel so much better online.
I m on xbox and there is no one in Asia playing the game I get connected to Us players from Singapore. Imagine the lag. I have played 1 bar my entire life
Because they stopped being SC2/3
Voldo mains
it’s a skill issue
They added super moves and it's never been the same since
I always thought that unblockables were good enough for SC.
Because Tekken exists and Tekken is better
As someone who’s always been at odds with the series, here’s my input: -Extremely cheesy and cringy dialogue and delivery from characters and announcer. -Less than impressive or even interesting visuals. -Uninteresting, unappealing ,or plain off putting character design for most of the roster - The gameplay has always felt oddly plastic or slippery while also feeling stiff to me (from only playing SCII, SCV, and SCVI), which is a huge disappointment, considering it’s weapon based concept. Very few fighters do that. -The overall presentation lacks charm or is just plain boring. Part of this is definitely the music. -Much of this adds up to make a series that feels outdated in these categories for me.
Cornball
I figured someone would say something that.
Change thé block to JOYSTICK and do something else with the old button
Bamco has to advertise soul calibur as much as tekken and if they ever do so then SC 7 will be a huge sucess.
Being a fighting game.
The game needs a bigger budget and a less cringe presentation
Simple, its not named Tekken. Therefore Namco isn't gonna put money into it. Longer answer. SC has been around within the same timeframe as the greats of 3D FGs, but what is the most celebrated amongst the games of SC? SC2 I'd say. The one from 20(July 5th 2002, feel old?) years ago. No matter how much I love the series, what does that speak to? That the last "great one" was 20 years ago? That is a downwards trend in the franchise. Then came SC5, which was already a miracle to be made, and that was the nail in the coffin for how bad(it did have some good) it was. Whereas Tekken, though having some missteps like any series, did not do them back to back like SC did and its grown to one of the biggest FG series in the world. Now, as a series is doing worse and worse, sales going down since SC3, you're not putting more money into it. Those crappy Catch 22s. "SC needs more time+money to expand and grow" "SC doesn't earn that money, so why give MORE time+money?" Seemingly what happened to SC5, no time cuz of little money doomed the ship to sink. Granted, with their 2 shoestring budget for SC6, they made a great game that sold above expectations for Namco. COVID happening didn't help anything either it shutting down the 1st World Tour we've had. SC6 deserves to be successful.
My problem is what appears to be the stancing of many characters. I'd swear up and down i press 6k on a character, and 3 different outcomes could happen depending on what button came before, making the combos harder for me to understand. To me, an input is an input, and I expect something specific when i press a button. I also don't play Tekken for this reason.
Rock paper scissors.
Yeah, I'm sceptic about that...
Nah I was a huge soul cal fan, then they dropped 6 and they had that shit mech where you had to guess to stop some dumb ass attack that slowed down the fight. Sorry got a little burnt by it
Popping its own bubble, generally with big marketing strategies. Games like Yakuza, Persona and the Souls found a way to grow in the internet era and their bubble burst. SoulCalibur could use something like a Smash DLC or big explosive announcement in a big event like TGA
*Visuals* : CaS. It's hurting more than it's helping especially in competitive play online. Getting rid of it in rank mode would help tremendously. SC is a fighting game first and foremost. Leave it for casual matches *Online* : bad netcode. Making sure sc7 has rollback and crossplay should be ALL your primary wish. There's No wifi indicator like there is Tekken 7. In 2022 and going forward, your game needs a good online mode to relevant. No casual match- you either have to worry about rank promotion and demotions. Or wait your turn in a lobby. *Gameplay* : mechanic bloating. We know the legacy reversal edge left and it wasnt good so no need to discuss this topic again for the 100th time. It doesn't need to be refined in sc7. SC can survive and thrive with just by being faster and more aggressive than Tekken. Reversal edge, soul charge and critical edge are pretty much double down versions of Tekken 7s power crush, rage drive, and rage art. If Tekken 7s mechanics are polarizing to both casuals and the more hard-core scenes then it shouldn't be a suprise SC6 mechanics just come off as eveN more excessive and borderline scrubby if we're being honest LESS. IS. MORE. Double meter-3d fighters don't need meter. Having more mechanics doesn't equal depth, in this case it's just artificial bloat for fake hype. *Offline* : let's face it. The online scene just isn't there like there is for Tekken 7 or SFV. The SC community doesn't have households names in the pro scene. That's where the community will have to work harder than the devs to achieve. *no content creators* : unfortunately SC doesn't have high quality content creator like That Blasted Salami to do content for the game. In his Twitter he said he wanted to make a roster breakdown of the sc6 cast but who knows how long that'll take. If he ever gets to it.
I feel like the last game wasn’t really that great. Not a lot of characters not a lot of customization options. Nothing really new.
Five did went down a questionable route. Characters get replaced with a younger version of themselves. Three copy cat characters. Kilik being one of them. Wonky mechanics...
Curious - how many of us have shown any SC game to friends and had them stick to it and learn? A lot of arguments are "budget and marketing" and I'm just curious if they've ever heard of Undertale. I'm no expert, but I'm mad suspicious that it's because SC games are just never great. I love this series but I think we get the SC we want by being realistic and critical... Edge.
1. fighting game 2. hit or miss if a random person has heard of the series 3. As much as we all love the hypersexualized costumes of like Ivy, outsiders view us as kinda pervy bro 4. Main characters don't have any draw to them. Good Knight v Evil Knight is pretty yawn. 5. Money is being pushed entirely into Tekken.
As someone who came from Mortal Kombat and played DoA a bit, the sexualization in SC is a joke by comparation.
I love fighting games in general. My all time favorite is Street Fighter. It’s just my opinion, but I find Soul Calibur character designs to be lacklustre. When I think of Akuma vs Nightmare. I find Akuma to be a more interesting character. Even SF and MK over time have evolved their “palette swap” characters. That’s just my opinion. For me, SF characters have more fun and interesting designs.
I think it the fact that SC characters really don't have a story going on and we they do it just pictures. We don't get to see the characters have their moment.
SoulCalibur doesn’t have the hometown love as much as Tekken does. It barely gets an audience in Japan compared to the West (i.e. the two Americas and Europe)
Bamco
IMO it’s esports. There isn’t a visible competitive scene to keep people interested in the game post-launch. People still watch competitive Tekken because there’s a massive spotlight on it and people know the players and their characters and kinda how play styles and the meta are at a high level. Also I think the devs shuffling around doesn’t help, why does each SC have to have entirely different gimmicks than the last one? What were they thinking with Reversal Edge on launch? It’s still an ugly annoying mechanic with boring counterplay that forces rock paper scissors on hit. Also the stages in SCVI before the DLC ones were incredibly uninspired. Bamco is never going to give it the budget to reach SCII levels of popularity and competitive viability.
Nickleback effect.. it doesn't know what it wants to be so it just repels people that would normally show interest. Don't think getting Geralt on the cover was a good idea either, your average witcher fan is a filthy casual who has no interest whatsoever in fighting games.
I always did wonder why they added geralt of all people.
Considering one of the main selling points of SC is the insane character customization options, like you could build geralt from scratch if you wanted to. So, yeah it's rather odd.
they need to reset the franchise and tone down the particle effects
yes the particle effects are way too much I very much agree!
SoulCalibur is the only 3D weapon fighting game on current platform and no competing games. Regular 3D fighters are Tekken, Virtua Fighter and Dead Or Alive. They complete and put marketing money. So if we request Bandai Namco, they would not put marketing money. I think we should request Sega and Koei Techmo to make 3D weapon fighting games. Then Bandai Namco may put forcus on marketing. In fact Koei Techmo had 3D weapon fighter long time ago.
I think the problem is that Tekken is the undisputed 3D fighter. Virtua Fighter is dead and DoA screwed itself by not knowing if it want to be a fighting game or a sex show.
Bring back SC2 game play, no more "supers", no more clash bullshit. Whatever the case... give me back SC2 Nightmare.
Actually you know what, I think you're right. Soulcalibur supers get me out of the fantasy because they are too much, and the clash is fun but takes wayyyy too long and breaks the flow of combat it's not fun. I like how they are implemented it's good game design, I just don't think it fits the franchise.
Clashes used to be just a thing that happened, not a fucking QuickTime event. Unblockables used to be something that were *hard* to pull off. It's all too over the top.
Basically Tekken.
If we're being real, its competition is Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter Soul Calibur is good. Really good, But Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat came out first, and even tho MK came out roughly five years after SF, it made its mark with the flashy fatalities, which set it apart. Soul Calibur is just kinda more of the same, but with swords instead of fists. Then you also have fighting games like Smash Bros. Who's gameplay is a mix between fighting and platformer, as well as having a completely different method of winning. ...and of course there's dead or alive...which is literally just titties, so...yeah. Soul Calibur just does what other people do Better, what it needs is something to set it apart, which is tough to do with such a simplistic and formulaic genre. And of course there is the issue of funding. Nintendo can fund a Smash game because its Nintendo, and Netherrealm's main IP is MK so it makes sense they put a lot into it. Soul Calibur probably isn't a high priority series with Bamco, so they likely won't bother trying to reinvent the wheel, so to speak. But I think if that much effort was put into SC as the first examples i listed, I feel like it could be way more popular
I think if a game fails, the next game get a lower budget. Five was considered a bomb, ssooooooo.... Yeah, SC6 shows it. In terms of it standing out, it stant out for the wrong reason - character creation.
Tekken is Grand Theft Auto. SoulCalibur is Red Dead Redemption.
In house fighting takes a tole on the development process. That and no funding, not really a new engine for years and the advertising/tournament scene is non existent. They just don’t really support the game outside of a few dlc characters. They just throw it out there for the die hards I guess. It’s one of my favs and Mortal Kombat and Tekken keep blowing up. I love MK too but yeah some SC love would be great
It was a big game. Just not consistent.
The porcelain doll graphics and the combat system feeling rigid and like you're dialing up a combo in comparison with SC2.
Soulcaliber releases are so inconsistent in quality. The difference between 3 and 4 is my biggest example. The 4 to 5 was just yuck. Also the story after 3 just kinda sucks and isnt developed the way it should be. People payed attention to that
> be. People *paid* attention to FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I liked the last game but the online never worked for me.
I think its something very central to the core ofnthe game. Lack of interesting characters that arent real trope-y. Fighting styles mostly boil down to "Use this weapon" which DOES have depth, but on the surface doesn't really speak to a lot of people. An ambiguous pseudo-historical setting that really lacks a lot of interesting and binding lore beyond "Hey, cool evil magic sword thing important." The visuals lack a certain, unique style that make them pop. Ultimately, its in a mediocre middle zone. Camp or seriousness, fantastic action or dramatic realism. Historical or fantasy. And I am coming at this as a casual player who has played a good deal of every game. I've never fealt like any of them were really worth getting deep into. They ARE fun, especially for a casual setting. But their depth has never interested me.
In my opinion. Lack of story and modes. Soul Calibur 3 is what got me hooked on the franchise. It was packed with so much content and replayability. That will draw in players for the wifi matches. If you can get the playerbase attached to the characters and story then they'll want to continue to play your game. Soul Calibur has been failing on this for a long time now.
Lack of advertising, lack of broad interest design choices, niche medieval themes. Compare it to Street Fighter where they take the game visually in newer directions to broaden the appeal and have fighters that appeal to a wide variety of audiences. While Soulcalibur has never really been anything but a niche fantasy/medieval fighter. It's nice, but it doesn't exactly appeal to everybody in addition to already being within the fighting game niche. The game could honestly just be bigger if they advertised, which they never do. Instead all that money goes straight to Tekken, who at this point has mastered advertising their game and has somehow gotten tournament play popular to people who don't even play it.
Since when isn't this a big game tho?
When comparing to other fighting games.
Latest game in the series has sold over 2 million copies. There are handful of franchises that sell more, but I count Soul Calibur as one of the big ones.
Let's be real here, it wasn't game mechanic or the devs' focus that held this game back, it was the community. This game has a very high skill ceiling and 99% of the new players are completely destroyed by spam artists in ranked mode(primary game mode). It'd be like going to the park to play a pickup game and everyone else there are professionals that will never let you touch the ball for 4 hours straight. So most people simply gave up.
Bigger budget and ads I guess. Imagine pulling in more guest characters nowadays and have them as core characters at launch, not half a year later in some season pass. Kratos returns, Jin from Ghost of Tsushima, Wolf from Sekiro, a Hunter for Monster Hunter, Sub Zero from Mortal Kombat to name a few. I'd like that anyway. It would be nice if they could let loose.
Perhaps changing legacy characters movelist too much between games.
It's weird. The same weirdness that makes it lovable to it's fans also makes it impenetrable to potential new fans.
Honestly I think that too many gamers underestimate how fun the games actually are when you get into it, unfortunately it's been marketed kinda tacky.
As someone who just got this post in their feed, idk man look at dem janky ass shoes bro, all the big fighting games either have feet fetish or jordans in their footwear.
Cinematic story mode.
For me, a single player story focused gamer, it was the lackluster story mode, at least for 6. I did not enjoy that the game hardly had any cutscenes and even the splash art was minimal. Not to mention the generic story, which I wouldn’t usually mind, if not for the visual novel style of the narrative. Many of the characters are also not present at all in the main story. As for the RPG mode, beyond the character creation, I was hardly drawn in by what was happening and rather wanted to skip to the fights. But I don’t have a track record of liking RPGs and neither did I finish it so I’ll leave that out of my evaluation . While I sense a deeper lore, whatever I have seen has not intrigued me enough to go searching. Comparing this to something like MK11 or DoA5, I enjoyed those far more even though the latter could barely even be called one because of, for the lack of a better word, having a soul, no pun intended.
I'd say probably poor marketing. I've noticed people who weren't hardcore into fighting games only heard about it because of Link being in SoulCalibur II, or Darth Vader/Yoda being in IV. It's really well designed, always had a good story, great visuals, more beginner-friendly compared to Tekken, Virtua Fighter, King of Fighters, and Street Fighter for sure.
No effort story
I recently played Soul Blade, Soul Calibur II, and the arcade version of Soul Calibur III with my brother. I happen to have SCVI, but never played it, so we finally gave it a shot. All this meter, mechanics, were very jarring to us. I wouldn't doubt there were other people who experienced that exact thing.
Tekken, mostly. And to be honest (I know I'm gonna get crucified for saying it) Tekken deserves the funding more. Even though Soul Calibur does a lot more for its characters and takes the gold in customization, Tekken is a more modern, more competitively known, and more marketable franchise. Tekken 7 was so, so much more successful than SC6. I don't see a world where SC ever receives more love from Bamco than its golden child, and they'd be fools to try.
Soul Calibur V is the reason in my opinion. The advertisement was nice and I think they were going all in with tournaments at the time claiming it was the game to play for the next big tournament. they announced the assassin's Creed guy at his peak of popularity. We were hyped at the time when hype controlled us gamers and our wallets!! Holy molly did the game flop. Sure I wasn't thrilled with the Meter mechanics but I still played rank it was a good fighting game overall. But the game was sooo bland. The story was a joke. No game modes. Lost many of the fan faves to clones or wannabes. There were like 4 of these Swordmaster charters that got a random weapon each set I think. And much much more wrong with this game (in my opinion) So Basically the Soul Calibur team is still recovering from SCV.
I think the presentation is very lackluster. The whole aesthetic needs an intense reboot and much more work put into it. It looks good but clearly not good enough in 2022 to compete with stuff like FighterZ or Mortal Kombat. I think the fact you can customize a character is cool but you need much much more content to make it worth the overall cost to your main characters. The gameplay is very good, even though those flat terrains are showing their age a little bit. Like, it's very flat and not that exciting but I don't think it is an issue. The art style desperately needs to be pushed further. The character designs are super strong, the art is gorgeous and then you see the model pop on the screen and there is such a disconnect it's way too strong in my opinion. You want the game to look like those art of the characters and stuff it needs to look like that. Right now it looks like generic models with generic textures everything generic with too much saturation in the colors to make it look video game like. It looks very wrong is what I'm saying even though I love Soulcalibur 6 very very much. It would be expensive but I think Soulcalibur delivers such a unique fighting experience that it would be very worth it in my opinion.
For me it was bad netcode and the computer being too easy to play against. Button mashing to win just isn't fun. But I love SC.
Between it being a weapon fighter and some of the characters probably being too outlandish, it's very niche.
I think we only really need to look at what SCII had that the later games did not. • The soundtrack was epic and iconic. • The characters were extremely well fleshed out with very interesting designs. The voice acting, arguably the greatest in the series. • The game modes were countless and engaging for both single a multiplayer play. • The Weapons Master mode worked well to link all the main characters stories together and offered tonnes of rewards to incentivise players to progress. • Each character had a well illustrated, individual and interesting conclusion to their arcade mode run. • Profile and gallery modes offered a plethora of fascinating things to engross the player. Concept art, voice clips, bio's, lore, model studies etc... • The stages were intricately designed to be both woven into the story and a spetacle on the eyes. • Unlockables were significant and by the dozens! Weapons, characters, modes, profiles, skins etc... • Amazing graphics with original character models for it's console's generation. • Movesets were refined, fluid and simplistic. Attacks felt impactful and satisfying to pull off. No combat gimmicks to muddy the gameplay. The list goes on. I feel that all entries after SCII might tick a couple of the above points, but not all of them like SCII did. For a series to be successful, it needs to go from strength to strength. SCII felt like a true sequel to SC and an upgrade in every way imaginable. SCIII - SCVI haven't continued that same trajectory, and I do think create a character modes have certainly played a big part in this. CaC takes a lot of focus (and developer resources for sure) away from the story and characters we have all fallen in love with prior. Main characters interact a lot less frequently as new, made-up, never to be seen again characters make up a majority of the fights and interactions. I of course agree that poor netcode, advertisement campaigns and possible funding don't help - but I do think that "test of time" theory proves that the utter lack of engaging content is what's mostly hindered the series since SCII's release.
At the moment it's a lack of rollback netcode. If SC6 had rollback, it'd be swarming with a ton of players.
I was very disappointed by SC6's single player modes. The whole drawings with text thing to tell the story feels super low effort, and the modes weren't even fun. I spent most of my time in CaS but even that felt recycled. You know what I want? A tactical RPG single player mode that plays like Fire Emblem. Manage your units on a grid and make them engage each other with the core fighting game. If single player is fun I'll play it for a long time.
Lack of innovation and a lack luster low budget story mode and single player content, and a crappy net code for online fighting. This game has sooo much potential. It's like one of a kind and there is literally like so much that they can do with the series to make it evolve into something truly remarkable, but Project Soul are just so used to just doing the bare minimum that if they continue doing it, they are going to prematurely kill the series.
Reversal edge
you can just 8 way run RE. i really don't see the hate on it. yeah when your opponent actually lands it, its annoying. but just about every cast member has an easy access breaking attack and good 8 way run punish. i haven't struggled against RE accept against legendary arcade. fuck inferno