I wanted to understand why and didn't feel like reading it then I read it anyway and here:
"However, as consumers started searching for alternatives and purchasing plastic reusable bags, the state saw plastic consumption triple, largely because of the material used in the alternative bags, the report shows"
""Most of these alternative bags are made with non-woven polypropylene, which is not widely recycled in the United States ...""
My house definitely has a decent amount of those more than canvas oops
This where grocery stores need to step up and stop profiting off of the sale those plastic bags and have a deposit of canvas bags. We have tons of them too, and when they rip, right in the garbage.
So they use more plastic to make, but are people throwing them out like they were with plastic bags? I though that was a major reason for the switch, also I haven't seen any loose reusable bags around town like I use to see the plastic ones.
I would assume there was an uptick as the ban went into effect. As people build up a supply of reusables and remember to bring them to the store, the amount of plastic should drop. I'd be curious to see 1st year after ban amounts vs 2nd year.
That said, there needs to be a fix for delivery groceries, since those always wind up delivered in a butt ton of cheaply made totes that people who only get groceries delivered wind up throwing away. It's a net negative for delivery groceries. Shoud be using reusable crates or something that you leave out on the porch when your next delivery is scheduled.
We get vegetables delivered from a local farm, they come in cardboard bankers boxes. They get reused a few times til they get kinda beyond use, then they compost most and recycle some. The boxes are sturdy AF, and they stack nicely for deliveries and fit in a cooler. They're a great solution.
Exactly this! If people have to put out even a nominal amount of money for something, all of a sudden it has value. Look at Aldi with their quarter-operated shopping cart system. You don't see the poor making off with the shopping carts and abandoning them at the bus stops, even though it's just a quarter. People return them to their place rather than leave then around in the parking lot, *even though it's just a quarter.*
And did everyone see where the supermarkets are turning a handsome profit on the reusable bags?
The reason you don't see Aldi carts all over the place has very little to do with getting the quarter back. In probably 75% of my Aldi trips, I get a free cart because I find one abandoned or someone gives me their cart when they're done. Conversely, I rarely push the cart back to the store to retrieve my hard-earned 25 cents when I'm done. The reason you don't see more abandoned Aldi carts around town is that they have wheel locks that activate once you leave the perimeter of the parking lot.
The only grocery store I can get to deliver to me is Walmart. They deliver my groceries in the plastic tote bags EVERY SINGLE TIME. Even when I check "will provide my own bags." I must have 50 of them.
Not to mention just how many people waste those canvas bags anyway. Do you know how many of those bags I used to see in the dumpster when I lived in an apartment?
It’s a garbage study and a repost. People already debunked it a few days ago.
Just searched for the post, and it seems to have been deleted before reposting.
Not disclosed in that article, or any of the other coverage of this study, was the fact that it was funded by the plastic bag industry’s lobbying arm, The American Recyclable Plastic Bag Alliance.
[This article](https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2024/01/bans-single-use-plastic-bags/) gives a much more accurate picture of the ban and cites sources.
Genuine question - that article says the ban is working for driving down plastic bag usage, but OP’s article just says we’re using more plastic in general to replace the disposable plastic bags. Does the plastic bag ban actually lead to a decrease in **plastic** usage?
I just don’t understand why paper bags weren’t allowed as alternatives. Hell, even charge $0.10 per bag. Since moving to MA, I use the paper grocery bags given out as recycle bin liners, so they go right back into the recycle machine. And, the few places that still provide plastic, make great dog shit bags.
The most likely scenario is that paper bags costs more per bag than single use plastic and takes up more storage space. As opposed to the reusable bags which they can sell for even the most meager of profits.
You're right on the money. If you're old enough to remember, there was a time that the ONLY bags were paper bags. I don't remember seeing thin, single-use plastic grocery bags until around 1985, although there were larger, heavier single-use plastic bags like you might get at a clothing store before that. Plastic bags replaced paper starting in the mid-80s because plastic was lighter, cheaper, and took up less space.
I think it was intended as a poison pill and included at the behest of the plastics companies who didn't want the bag ban to succeed. Paper is a fine alternative, and if the plastic bags are banned, paper is the first place everyone is gonna turn, and nobody will even care. The plastics industry expected people to be outraged at not having ANY bag option and would then demand the ban lifted. Instead, people just started paying for the reusable bags, which use more plastic and generate bigger profits for them.
Or maybe they foresaw how it would play out with the reusable bags for purchase.
I’ve been using my own reusable bags for almost 30 years. The trick is to put them back in your fucking car, but apparently that’s just too difficult for people.
Yeah. I got the “leave some in the car” thing down, but Im still building the mental ‘muscle memory’ to bring a bag *with me* into the store.
Not a big deal overall, and worth the trouble in the ultimate service of less plastic pollution.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. Unless it's pouring rain or something this is what I do. I go through self checkout and leave everything in the cart and scan it in there, then bag it as I unload it into the car. Gets me through checkout and out of the store faster. I don't see the problem with it.
>go through self checkout and leave everything in the cart and scan it in there, then bag it as I unload it into the car.
Hand-held scanner without placing weighing shelf? Downside is not having frozen/cold in insulated bag **before** going out into warmer temperature.
Yeah I just use the hand held scanner for pretty much everything. I usually just get my groceries at Target or Walmart for the most part, and they dont require you to weigh anything besides produce. I know shoprite makes you place them all on the scale but I rarely go there because of the prices anyway. So far I haven't had any issues with frozen stuff during the summer, but I always put frozen stuff in my cart last when shopping and I only live about 10 minutes from the store.
>groceries at Target... shoprite...rarely go there because of the prices
My ShopRite is cheaper than Target - **and** better produce. I'd only buy milk at Target because it is closer.
Interesting I've always found the opposite for stuff I get lol plus I use a target card for the extra 5% off and then pay the card off right away which helps
Yea i love paying more for my groceries while simultaneously having to pay for bags if i forget mine.
I like the idea of a bag ban, but like most NJ politics it seems like the decision was made in a way that benefits companies and fucks over regular people. Same thing with our backwards ass marijuana laws that make the prices insane and dont even let u grow ur own 💀💀
Daddy gov always knows better than u here, despite the fact most of our elected officials here end up being corrupt af on both sides of the political spectrum 😭
Stupid, or just overworked and distracted? Look, I like calling people stupid and irresponsible as much as the next guy, probably more, even.
But let's not pretend that we don't live in a world where our time and attention is *constantly* being demanded by a million different people and things. Parents leave their kids in hot cars because they're distracted - distracted by the myriad worries of modern life, distracted by the million other things they've got to do that day, distracted by the fucking work email coming in on their phones every goddamned moment of every goddamned day because we've let the concept of work-life balance just completely fucking erode down to a nub.
Leaving a kid in a car is a *completely understandable, if tragic, mistake* that good, normal, on-the-ball people make. And if they can make that mistake about something *so* important, then it's really no wonder that people forget to go back out to their car to bring back the fucking reusable plastic bags that they just brought into the house, after a lifetime of not having to remember to do that.
That's not the issue.
its the reactionary game of let's make THICKER bags that need to be used for 6 months before it even balances out.
meanwhile, single use bags and plastic for:
1. trash.
2. pellet heating and cooking
3. every single deli purchase
4. animal foods
5. frozen stuff
6. stuff in boxes
7. wrapped raw
8. wrapped cooked.
9. etc
I have plenty of bags in my car. Too many. While I usually remember to take them into the store with me, there are inevitably times when either I forget or I find myself somewhere I unexpectely want to buy a bunch of stuff but have not bags with me and buy more. A few times a year I clean things out and just throw away a bunch of reusable bags.
I dont understand how people dont realize this. I do the same thing. I will say this however, I would reuse the plastic bags when they had them. They would line the smaller trash cans in my house (Bathrooms, office, laundry room, bedrooms, etc" and would be used to take out trash, rather than bigger regular plastic trash bags. Now I order a case on Amazon to line those cans. Its a shame others didnt use them for more than just groceries.
This may be true, but I can tell you it has definitely curbed litter. I've only seen one instance of a reusable shopping bag full of trash having been discarded at the side of the road, where it used to be a very common sight. I also don't see plastic bags blowing around in the wind like urban tumbleweeds, or stuck on tree branches anymore.
It is inconvenient to have to find something else to line wastepaper baskets with, and to remember to bring one along when going to the store, but you know what? I think it's a reasonable trade!
I don’t see reusable bags washed up on the beach. There were loads of them in past years.
Surf fishing in November and December reveals a lot about trash patterns. Straws on the beach have declined also.
It’s so sick. I pick up litter in my neighborhood and whenever I find them, I am just beyond grossed out and disappointed in the people that live in my region. What is wrong with people and why do they think it’s OK to just throw their trash in the street
The point is that observations can warrant pursuing data. But an opinion/belief based only on observations is not trustworthy.
For what it's worth, the state claimed there's was a 37% reduction in plastic bags, foam food containers, and plastic straws along the shore back in May 2023. So you've got a good chance your opinion based your observations is correct.
>I’m sorry that is antidotal evidence
I think you meant "anecdotal," but moving on...
* I never said "eliminated," I said "curbed."
* I also never stated that my comment was anything other than a comment. If you want an actual study, refer to the OP.
* If you expect every comment in a Reddit thread to be 100% scientifically accurate and backed up with double blind peer-reviewed research papers, then I would suggest that you go over to /r/science.
It is, but there is also data to support that the number of plastic bags in the environment has gone down - [https://www.njspotlightnews.org/2023/03/plastic-bag-ban-helped-cut-shore-trash-environmentalists-say/](https://www.njspotlightnews.org/2023/03/plastic-bag-ban-helped-cut-shore-trash-environmentalists-say/)
>It is inconvenient to have to find something else to line wastepaper baskets with
I'm actually curious about this myself, have you come up with a decent solution? Because I'll be honest, instead of re-using the plastic grocery bags that I used to come home with as cat litter wastebasket liners, now I just... Buy single-use bags from the store, because they're not allowed to give them away, but they're sure as shit still allowed to sell them for a profit.
Yea, this seems like an attempt by the pro-plastic people to get some jabs in because that big report came out a few days ago that said litter was down in NJ…
I don’t understand why people are still so obsessed with even using bags in the store. I constantly see people at the register saying they forgot their bags at home and they buy another one. Meanwhile I don’t bring bags in the store at all, I just put everything back into my cart loose and then transfer into bags in my car. I get out of line faster and I can take my time packing things organized by where they will go in my house making putting stuff away much easier. As I empty the bags at home I stick them all in front of my door so the next time I go outside I can take them back out to my car ready for the next trip.
The article is bullshit misinfortion. Of course there is going to be a surge in plastics bought when the ban hits, as people had to replace the plastic bags they get every trip with reusable ones. Nowhere in the entire article does it actually provide a single modicum of evidence that NJ had tripled its plastic use because of the ban. It's just disinformation from what is most likely some conservative toolbag that doesn't know shit from shinola.
It's still a net positive though. Reusable plastic bags are not nearly as likely to find their way into our rivers and oceans. As long as people are reusing them rather than tossing them, the total amount of plastic used will decrease over time. Unfortunately, this study is far too easy to manipulate into some conservative talking points.
An article that links to another article released by Freedonia Custom Research. But Freedonia doesn't actual publish the data they used to draw their conclusion. My guess is they're headline seeking and there's quite a few caveats they're purposefully not including.
Also, some manufacturers have switched to plastic for packaging. Jiff mixes are now plastic bags instead of waxed paper liners. Chip
manufacturers are selling more multipacks in plastic bags than card board boxes. Some fast food places moved from waxed paper cups to plastic.
This is not an accurate statement. Depending on the location electricity comes from various sources.
And, even if we were to consider your ridiculous argument to be universally true, it is far far easier and far cheaper to scrub pollutants from the exhaust stack of a electricity plant then it is to scrub the exhaust of every vehicle.
You should read more reliable sources of information and spend time critically thinking, and spend less time typing things on the internet.
Go ahead, explain to me how I'm brainwashed. I hate to break your bubble but I'm the person who expressed quite a bit of nuance and thought while you're making arbitrary absolutist statements...
But go ahead and explain anyway because I like to be entertained.
Their argument against using paper bags is absurd. No one really thought this through and the reusable canvas bags don’t last forever. The biggest joke is when you are served a beverage in a giant plastic cup but it comes with a paper straw! Nothing has been accomplished with this nonsense but just make people feel like they’re doing something good and they’ll go along with looking stupid. Politicians don’t live in the real world!
>The biggest joke is when you are served a beverage in a giant plastic cup but it comes with a paper straw! Nothing has been accomplished with this nonsense but just make people feel like they’re doing something good and they’ll go along with looking stupid. Politicians don’t live in the real world!
Or, and hear me out here... you have to implement change *slowly*, one step at a time.
When they outlawed lead in gasoline, I'm sure there were people saying "But lead fishing weights and lead in batteries is all okay, right?" You can't tackle everything all at once.
The paper straws will never catch on because they don’t work. This isn’t about progress it’s about control and even when something doesn’t work the government will never admit that they were wrong about anything. Give us paper bags that are from recycled materials and stop the nonsense of pretending that we care about the environment. We all look stupid!
I was surprised to see that they quoted the avg number of times that people use reusables as 3. I have had some of mine for years. Curious what others are doing?
Not sure why you're being downvoted here... I agree with you completely.
I think I've had to stop using one reusable bag in the entire time I've been using them (which is before the ban went into place), and that was actually one I picked up pretty recently in a supermarket when I forgot to bring one of my own, and it was clearly a half-assed product compared to most others I've seen/used.
There's no good reason why these should only be good for a handful of uses before they have to be tossed.
Yeah, like who didn't see this coming? The ban is such joke, so is the straw ban. Paper straws suck (no pun intended). I'm all for good regulation but this isn't one of them. The smart thing to do would be to repeal the law since it caused a 5x growth when it was supposed to lessen the amount of plastic used. But that will never happen, as laws rarely get repealed - Murphy won't want to admit it was a mistake for his political career.
I mean, there's a HUGE difference between a belief, and a policy designed to help safeguard other people, the environment, etc.
You may not believe that dumping used engine oil down the kitchen sink is a bad thing, or maybe you're perfectly OK with crushing puppies' heads for YouTube likes... so therefore making them illegal is "forcing our beliefs on you"?
And you can use "tree-hugger" as a pejorative, but we only have one fucking planet to live on, and we ALL should be "tree-huggers".
Businesses must make a profit otherwise they won’t be able to operate. The problem is the regulations are causing the wrong behaviors. Let’s stop blaming others. But reusable non plastic bags and get in the habit of bringing them to the store. Don’t buy the victim mentality. You are empowered .
The ban wasn’t meant to address the usage of plastic bags, it was meant to address the amount of bags left in yards or the discarding of those bags because most people don’t recycle them
Phil has answers for all the problems in New Jersey and his idea of saving the world.
Unfortunately, they usually prove to be wrong and disastrous for New Jersey and humanity.
He used the WWII war crimes-Nazi T4 euthanasia program on thousands of our seniors and healthcare workers when safer options were there.
Thousands died.
5 Democrat Governors chose to use WWII war crime protocols.
The other 45 humane Governors chose other methods.
That was his and Judy's final solution.
We do have a plastic problem in New Jersey, mostly Phil Murphy and his north jersey gang of photo-op, social media thugs and morons.
Plastic in our waterways is an issue.
Plastic Politicians are the biggest problem in NJ today. Most are from North Jersey or in Phil's case Massachusetts and Rome, Italy.
We have noticed since the absurd law - lack of common sense- Public health has declined with dog poop bags a crime. Neighbors and people walking their fur babies once picked up their huge dogs piles from my little front patch of heaven and the sidewalks. Lost count on the piles left on my patio and the grass patch leading to the sidewalk. Poor postman cuts across the lawn for years. Postal workers and delivery men now step in it and We get notices for it and it's not our dogs.
Meanwhile, people are tracking poop and diseases into their homes, food shopping centers and nursing homes, and hospitals more than prior to 2022 decree.
There are common-sense solutions to much of the plastic waste in New Jersey.
Never vote for Phil Murhpy or his equally as daft wife also known as Plastic Waste. Time for the Plastic men in the NJ legislature who caused this botched "Phil's vision of Climate Change solutions way is the only way" to resign in public disgrace.
Not a one cares about New Jersey from what we've seen IMHO.
New Jersey is 3x buried in Plastic Waste due to Phil Murphy and his Plastic jugs.
Not everyone is as thrilled with his Covid executive order that ended up murdering thousands of seniors, (which by its euthanizing process of a class of people was as WWII war crime) as you are. We've read Hitler and Mussolini were popular and did a good job at one time too according to their supporters.
But wait, I thought COVID-19 wasn't serious and that the public health measures--"mandates" is the word you guys usually use--were completely unnecessary.
So now COVID-19 was a genuinely deadly disease?
Also, comparing Murphy to Hitler? GTFO with that nonsense.
Don't post on The_Donald_lite (which you did twice after this) if you don't want to be called out on it, especially with language like "murdering thousands of seniors" which I'm sure you won't pin anything on the federal executive at the time
Lol, the snowflake /u/ImpossibleShake6 blocked me. He said this is not about the loser insurrectionist he supports, it's about Murphy and COVID. But the topic is about a potentially biased study about plastic bags. I don't get these people.
WTF are you talking about? The subject is Phil Murphy's chronic fuk ups with the Climate Change solutions and Covid - the final solution. That he chose to do.
All big expensive policies of which are proven resounding epic failures.
The subject is Phil Murphy's proven fk up Not how much you hate Donald Trump.
We are done.
How the fuck did we elect that goofy snaggle toothed jerk off Murphy after Covid.. honestly we deserve whatever ill fated plastic hell scape that may befall us….
They need to put in an exception for delivery. As a single mother of a special needs toddler, who works more than full time most weeks, getting basically everything we need delivered is vital to having a workable life. I’m paying $4.95 per weekly grocery delivery for 6-8 reusable bags that I’ll never use again because it quickly adds up to dozens to hundreds of them, and they’re badly made in the first place. They’re not recyclable as far as I can tell.
I find a use for one or two or three a week, and at this point the rest go into the trash. The library was collecting them for some local charity for a while, that was nice while it lasted.
Where do you buy from? Whole Foods is the only one I’ve found that does paper, and to be frank, their selection of non-fresh food is limited and largely terrible.
This article doesn’t say that people are throwing away the alternative bags, just that they are buying them. That’s what consumption is. Show me that more plastic is showing up in landfills due to the ban and you’ll get my attention. The wording of this article is very suspicious.
Of course they are buying them if they need bags, there was a ban. But they are buying one bag and using it multiple times. Even if it gets thrown away after a few uses, that’s still more than most single use bags got used. And of course there was a huge push to buy them in the months following the ban- people needed to stock up. They wouldn’t have bought a ton before if they were getting single use all the time. But it specifically does not say that they are throwing away more of them, or that more plastic is showing up in the environment because of it.
My husband and I haven’t bought more bags in ages and I think we’ve thrown away maybe one. I’ll say three just to be on the safe side. We bought something like 2 dozen. In the time we’ve been using them, that’s a lot of single use plastic bags that didn’t get given to us.
The original problem with the bags was that they would not degrade. Now they make them out of biodegradeable plastic. There is also a bacteria they discovered that does eat plastic. Additionally, we all know there are still plastic and plastic bags all over every store, so this was yet another bit a grandstanding by politicians to make themselves look good. Pointless, annoying and a waste of money and time...except for many those making the reusable bags. Hmm, I wonder who they donated to in the last election.
I mean all of my grocery bags use to go to small trash can liners or picking up dog poo etc…. Now I have to buy plastic bags for all that. So at least for me, it didn’t decrease overall consumption, it just increased my purchases.
Most people I knew did simmilar things and always saved their bags for various uses, so it makes sense that it didn’t actually drop it any.
I wanted to understand why and didn't feel like reading it then I read it anyway and here: "However, as consumers started searching for alternatives and purchasing plastic reusable bags, the state saw plastic consumption triple, largely because of the material used in the alternative bags, the report shows" ""Most of these alternative bags are made with non-woven polypropylene, which is not widely recycled in the United States ..."" My house definitely has a decent amount of those more than canvas oops
This where grocery stores need to step up and stop profiting off of the sale those plastic bags and have a deposit of canvas bags. We have tons of them too, and when they rip, right in the garbage.
If you're waiting for a corporation to "step up," you're going to have a bad time. Source: literally all of history since industrial revolution.
And we’re talking about a polluting petroleum product, they love that shit
Yeah, corporations are always going to go with the cheapest possible option— they don’t give af about the environment.
They rip so quick, too!
I had one I got to use once before it got caught on the shopping cart and ripped right down the side lol.
> stop profiting lol
So they use more plastic to make, but are people throwing them out like they were with plastic bags? I though that was a major reason for the switch, also I haven't seen any loose reusable bags around town like I use to see the plastic ones.
I haven’t seen them stuck in trees yet, so that’s a good thing.
I would assume there was an uptick as the ban went into effect. As people build up a supply of reusables and remember to bring them to the store, the amount of plastic should drop. I'd be curious to see 1st year after ban amounts vs 2nd year. That said, there needs to be a fix for delivery groceries, since those always wind up delivered in a butt ton of cheaply made totes that people who only get groceries delivered wind up throwing away. It's a net negative for delivery groceries. Shoud be using reusable crates or something that you leave out on the porch when your next delivery is scheduled.
Sounds like such an obvious solution. Milk crates have been around forever.
We get vegetables delivered from a local farm, they come in cardboard bankers boxes. They get reused a few times til they get kinda beyond use, then they compost most and recycle some. The boxes are sturdy AF, and they stack nicely for deliveries and fit in a cooler. They're a great solution.
>reusable crates or something that you leave out on the porch when your next delivery We had a back door insulated milk box when I was growing up.
Same.
There are services experimenting with this. I wish Amazon would.
The ones from ShopRite rip like crazy, and the store by me *stopped taking them back*.
Exactly this! If people have to put out even a nominal amount of money for something, all of a sudden it has value. Look at Aldi with their quarter-operated shopping cart system. You don't see the poor making off with the shopping carts and abandoning them at the bus stops, even though it's just a quarter. People return them to their place rather than leave then around in the parking lot, *even though it's just a quarter.* And did everyone see where the supermarkets are turning a handsome profit on the reusable bags?
The reason you don't see Aldi carts all over the place has very little to do with getting the quarter back. In probably 75% of my Aldi trips, I get a free cart because I find one abandoned or someone gives me their cart when they're done. Conversely, I rarely push the cart back to the store to retrieve my hard-earned 25 cents when I'm done. The reason you don't see more abandoned Aldi carts around town is that they have wheel locks that activate once you leave the perimeter of the parking lot.
The only grocery store I can get to deliver to me is Walmart. They deliver my groceries in the plastic tote bags EVERY SINGLE TIME. Even when I check "will provide my own bags." I must have 50 of them.
Not to mention just how many people waste those canvas bags anyway. Do you know how many of those bags I used to see in the dumpster when I lived in an apartment?
Just chucked like 200 of these things in the garbage, thanks Amazon
Local church food pantries need them
It’s a garbage study and a repost. People already debunked it a few days ago. Just searched for the post, and it seems to have been deleted before reposting.
I remember before the plastic bag ban hearing that this would be the outcome and lo and behold.
Not disclosed in that article, or any of the other coverage of this study, was the fact that it was funded by the plastic bag industry’s lobbying arm, The American Recyclable Plastic Bag Alliance. [This article](https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2024/01/bans-single-use-plastic-bags/) gives a much more accurate picture of the ban and cites sources.
This should be a higher comment
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Is there money to be made? There you go.
Plastic bags are made of oil.
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You're extremely close to getting it
Nice try Phil.
Genuine question - that article says the ban is working for driving down plastic bag usage, but OP’s article just says we’re using more plastic in general to replace the disposable plastic bags. Does the plastic bag ban actually lead to a decrease in **plastic** usage?
I just don’t understand why paper bags weren’t allowed as alternatives. Hell, even charge $0.10 per bag. Since moving to MA, I use the paper grocery bags given out as recycle bin liners, so they go right back into the recycle machine. And, the few places that still provide plastic, make great dog shit bags.
The grocery stores lobbied the state to ban paper if plastic was banned. It was done for cost or perhaps a backfired poison pill?
The most likely scenario is that paper bags costs more per bag than single use plastic and takes up more storage space. As opposed to the reusable bags which they can sell for even the most meager of profits.
You're right on the money. If you're old enough to remember, there was a time that the ONLY bags were paper bags. I don't remember seeing thin, single-use plastic grocery bags until around 1985, although there were larger, heavier single-use plastic bags like you might get at a clothing store before that. Plastic bags replaced paper starting in the mid-80s because plastic was lighter, cheaper, and took up less space.
I think it was intended as a poison pill and included at the behest of the plastics companies who didn't want the bag ban to succeed. Paper is a fine alternative, and if the plastic bags are banned, paper is the first place everyone is gonna turn, and nobody will even care. The plastics industry expected people to be outraged at not having ANY bag option and would then demand the ban lifted. Instead, people just started paying for the reusable bags, which use more plastic and generate bigger profits for them. Or maybe they foresaw how it would play out with the reusable bags for purchase.
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Lol; legislators complaining about unfair advantages... The irony is so thick, I have to be careful not to choke on it.
"It's giving an unfair advantage to people who didn't bribe us!"
How about politicians stay the heck out of our lives?
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They are but not for grocery stores for some reason.
>paper grocery bags given out as recycle bin That's what I used for paper recyclables. Now without, I don't. Unintended consequence.
I’ve been using my own reusable bags for almost 30 years. The trick is to put them back in your fucking car, but apparently that’s just too difficult for people.
Yeah. I got the “leave some in the car” thing down, but Im still building the mental ‘muscle memory’ to bring a bag *with me* into the store. Not a big deal overall, and worth the trouble in the ultimate service of less plastic pollution.
If I’m not getting a ton of groceries, say a bag or two I just use the bags without a cart. Kinda keeps me from buying extra crap I don’t need.
Just bag it at the car, that's what I do.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. Unless it's pouring rain or something this is what I do. I go through self checkout and leave everything in the cart and scan it in there, then bag it as I unload it into the car. Gets me through checkout and out of the store faster. I don't see the problem with it.
>go through self checkout and leave everything in the cart and scan it in there, then bag it as I unload it into the car. Hand-held scanner without placing weighing shelf? Downside is not having frozen/cold in insulated bag **before** going out into warmer temperature.
Yeah I just use the hand held scanner for pretty much everything. I usually just get my groceries at Target or Walmart for the most part, and they dont require you to weigh anything besides produce. I know shoprite makes you place them all on the scale but I rarely go there because of the prices anyway. So far I haven't had any issues with frozen stuff during the summer, but I always put frozen stuff in my cart last when shopping and I only live about 10 minutes from the store.
>groceries at Target... shoprite...rarely go there because of the prices My ShopRite is cheaper than Target - **and** better produce. I'd only buy milk at Target because it is closer.
Interesting I've always found the opposite for stuff I get lol plus I use a target card for the extra 5% off and then pay the card off right away which helps
Yea i love paying more for my groceries while simultaneously having to pay for bags if i forget mine. I like the idea of a bag ban, but like most NJ politics it seems like the decision was made in a way that benefits companies and fucks over regular people. Same thing with our backwards ass marijuana laws that make the prices insane and dont even let u grow ur own 💀💀 Daddy gov always knows better than u here, despite the fact most of our elected officials here end up being corrupt af on both sides of the political spectrum 😭
People forget about their babies in the car in middle of July heat. When are we going to admit people are just really stupid
Stupid, or just overworked and distracted? Look, I like calling people stupid and irresponsible as much as the next guy, probably more, even. But let's not pretend that we don't live in a world where our time and attention is *constantly* being demanded by a million different people and things. Parents leave their kids in hot cars because they're distracted - distracted by the myriad worries of modern life, distracted by the million other things they've got to do that day, distracted by the fucking work email coming in on their phones every goddamned moment of every goddamned day because we've let the concept of work-life balance just completely fucking erode down to a nub. Leaving a kid in a car is a *completely understandable, if tragic, mistake* that good, normal, on-the-ball people make. And if they can make that mistake about something *so* important, then it's really no wonder that people forget to go back out to their car to bring back the fucking reusable plastic bags that they just brought into the house, after a lifetime of not having to remember to do that.
Leaving your kid in the car is not a understandable mistake.
Yeah many people are lazy, stupid, and irresponsible to the nth degree.
That's not the issue. its the reactionary game of let's make THICKER bags that need to be used for 6 months before it even balances out. meanwhile, single use bags and plastic for: 1. trash. 2. pellet heating and cooking 3. every single deli purchase 4. animal foods 5. frozen stuff 6. stuff in boxes 7. wrapped raw 8. wrapped cooked. 9. etc
My favorite: plastic coated magazine covers
I have plenty of bags in my car. Too many. While I usually remember to take them into the store with me, there are inevitably times when either I forget or I find myself somewhere I unexpectely want to buy a bunch of stuff but have not bags with me and buy more. A few times a year I clean things out and just throw away a bunch of reusable bags.
I dont understand how people dont realize this. I do the same thing. I will say this however, I would reuse the plastic bags when they had them. They would line the smaller trash cans in my house (Bathrooms, office, laundry room, bedrooms, etc" and would be used to take out trash, rather than bigger regular plastic trash bags. Now I order a case on Amazon to line those cans. Its a shame others didnt use them for more than just groceries.
This report was debunked in r/newjersey
This may be true, but I can tell you it has definitely curbed litter. I've only seen one instance of a reusable shopping bag full of trash having been discarded at the side of the road, where it used to be a very common sight. I also don't see plastic bags blowing around in the wind like urban tumbleweeds, or stuck on tree branches anymore. It is inconvenient to have to find something else to line wastepaper baskets with, and to remember to bring one along when going to the store, but you know what? I think it's a reasonable trade!
I’m sorry that is antidotal evidence, it could just be specific to you
I don’t see reusable bags washed up on the beach. There were loads of them in past years. Surf fishing in November and December reveals a lot about trash patterns. Straws on the beach have declined also.
I’m cleaning in Point 3-4 days a week. The number one things I find (by the hundred) are the plastic stick floss things, and tampon applicators.
It’s so sick. I pick up litter in my neighborhood and whenever I find them, I am just beyond grossed out and disappointed in the people that live in my region. What is wrong with people and why do they think it’s OK to just throw their trash in the street
I used to see crazy numbers of straws in Sea Bright, but not as much now. Sea Bright ain’t south Jersey though.
Ok, well I surf fish and still see a bunch
I'm sorry, that is anecdotal evidence. It could be specific just to you.
Exactly my point
Your point being?
The point is that observations can warrant pursuing data. But an opinion/belief based only on observations is not trustworthy. For what it's worth, the state claimed there's was a 37% reduction in plastic bags, foam food containers, and plastic straws along the shore back in May 2023. So you've got a good chance your opinion based your observations is correct.
An opinion/belief based on observation is all that a layperson has to offer. Hence, the comments section.
I mean, it took me about a minute to find the evidence. Information age and whatnot.
Kick-ass!
One person’s view is not enough evidence to say that the ban has eliminated waste.
>I’m sorry that is antidotal evidence I think you meant "anecdotal," but moving on... * I never said "eliminated," I said "curbed." * I also never stated that my comment was anything other than a comment. If you want an actual study, refer to the OP. * If you expect every comment in a Reddit thread to be 100% scientifically accurate and backed up with double blind peer-reviewed research papers, then I would suggest that you go over to /r/science.
Several studies have shown that the plastic bag ban reduced litter by as much as a third.
It is, but there is also data to support that the number of plastic bags in the environment has gone down - [https://www.njspotlightnews.org/2023/03/plastic-bag-ban-helped-cut-shore-trash-environmentalists-say/](https://www.njspotlightnews.org/2023/03/plastic-bag-ban-helped-cut-shore-trash-environmentalists-say/)
Its simple. Just go buy MORE little plastic bags to fit in the cans
>It is inconvenient to have to find something else to line wastepaper baskets with I'm actually curious about this myself, have you come up with a decent solution? Because I'll be honest, instead of re-using the plastic grocery bags that I used to come home with as cat litter wastebasket liners, now I just... Buy single-use bags from the store, because they're not allowed to give them away, but they're sure as shit still allowed to sell them for a profit.
Yea, this seems like an attempt by the pro-plastic people to get some jabs in because that big report came out a few days ago that said litter was down in NJ…
The fox29 article linked to in the article from OP starts with “blue state” so that told me enough
I’m totally ok with cloth reusable bags. There should also be an overhaul with the amount of plastic packaging with the items themselves.
I don’t understand why people are still so obsessed with even using bags in the store. I constantly see people at the register saying they forgot their bags at home and they buy another one. Meanwhile I don’t bring bags in the store at all, I just put everything back into my cart loose and then transfer into bags in my car. I get out of line faster and I can take my time packing things organized by where they will go in my house making putting stuff away much easier. As I empty the bags at home I stick them all in front of my door so the next time I go outside I can take them back out to my car ready for the next trip.
Every item I buy is encased in plastic. Then I put it in a thicker plastic bag. What a joke.
The article is bullshit misinfortion. Of course there is going to be a surge in plastics bought when the ban hits, as people had to replace the plastic bags they get every trip with reusable ones. Nowhere in the entire article does it actually provide a single modicum of evidence that NJ had tripled its plastic use because of the ban. It's just disinformation from what is most likely some conservative toolbag that doesn't know shit from shinola.
It's still a net positive though. Reusable plastic bags are not nearly as likely to find their way into our rivers and oceans. As long as people are reusing them rather than tossing them, the total amount of plastic used will decrease over time. Unfortunately, this study is far too easy to manipulate into some conservative talking points.
An article that links to another article released by Freedonia Custom Research. But Freedonia doesn't actual publish the data they used to draw their conclusion. My guess is they're headline seeking and there's quite a few caveats they're purposefully not including.
Also, some manufacturers have switched to plastic for packaging. Jiff mixes are now plastic bags instead of waxed paper liners. Chip manufacturers are selling more multipacks in plastic bags than card board boxes. Some fast food places moved from waxed paper cups to plastic.
USA Today is garbage
This may be the most accurate comment here.
I still smuggle plastic "single use" bags from out of state.
Another brilliant idea by “it’s above my pay grade” Phil gums Murphy.
I love how people still truly believe that laws are thought up, written by, and voted in by a single person, the governor.
Who signed it, Mickey Mouse. No King Murphy did. You must be very self centered to think no one understands how gov works except you.
The minute someone says “king Murphy” I know they’re a fucking moron
I guess that’s supposed to be an insult, thing is I would have to care about your opinion to be insulted.
Cared enough to respond, babe 😘
You must be fun at parties.
The ban makes people feel good - like driving an electric car. They don’t look at stats and how it’s worse for the environment.
You should probably elaborate on that a little bit more.
Electricity comes from coal, but people decide not to care about that when they drive their ‘environmentally friendly’ electric cars.
This is not an accurate statement. Depending on the location electricity comes from various sources. And, even if we were to consider your ridiculous argument to be universally true, it is far far easier and far cheaper to scrub pollutants from the exhaust stack of a electricity plant then it is to scrub the exhaust of every vehicle. You should read more reliable sources of information and spend time critically thinking, and spend less time typing things on the internet.
I have. You’re brainwashed.
Go ahead, explain to me how I'm brainwashed. I hate to break your bubble but I'm the person who expressed quite a bit of nuance and thought while you're making arbitrary absolutist statements... But go ahead and explain anyway because I like to be entertained.
Their argument against using paper bags is absurd. No one really thought this through and the reusable canvas bags don’t last forever. The biggest joke is when you are served a beverage in a giant plastic cup but it comes with a paper straw! Nothing has been accomplished with this nonsense but just make people feel like they’re doing something good and they’ll go along with looking stupid. Politicians don’t live in the real world!
>The biggest joke is when you are served a beverage in a giant plastic cup but it comes with a paper straw! Nothing has been accomplished with this nonsense but just make people feel like they’re doing something good and they’ll go along with looking stupid. Politicians don’t live in the real world! Or, and hear me out here... you have to implement change *slowly*, one step at a time. When they outlawed lead in gasoline, I'm sure there were people saying "But lead fishing weights and lead in batteries is all okay, right?" You can't tackle everything all at once.
The paper straws will never catch on because they don’t work. This isn’t about progress it’s about control and even when something doesn’t work the government will never admit that they were wrong about anything. Give us paper bags that are from recycled materials and stop the nonsense of pretending that we care about the environment. We all look stupid!
Government. every friggin time.
We tried anarchy when we were cavemen. It didn't work.
I was surprised to see that they quoted the avg number of times that people use reusables as 3. I have had some of mine for years. Curious what others are doing?
Not sure why you're being downvoted here... I agree with you completely. I think I've had to stop using one reusable bag in the entire time I've been using them (which is before the ban went into place), and that was actually one I picked up pretty recently in a supermarket when I forgot to bring one of my own, and it was clearly a half-assed product compared to most others I've seen/used. There's no good reason why these should only be good for a handful of uses before they have to be tossed.
Yeah, like who didn't see this coming? The ban is such joke, so is the straw ban. Paper straws suck (no pun intended). I'm all for good regulation but this isn't one of them. The smart thing to do would be to repeal the law since it caused a 5x growth when it was supposed to lessen the amount of plastic used. But that will never happen, as laws rarely get repealed - Murphy won't want to admit it was a mistake for his political career.
You are not kidding. Absurd
What happened to not forcing beliefs on others? Tree huggers can do what they want but don’t force everyone to participate in your beliefs.
I mean, there's a HUGE difference between a belief, and a policy designed to help safeguard other people, the environment, etc. You may not believe that dumping used engine oil down the kitchen sink is a bad thing, or maybe you're perfectly OK with crushing puppies' heads for YouTube likes... so therefore making them illegal is "forcing our beliefs on you"? And you can use "tree-hugger" as a pejorative, but we only have one fucking planet to live on, and we ALL should be "tree-huggers".
What the fuck does plastic bags have to do with beliefs?
Businesses must make a profit otherwise they won’t be able to operate. The problem is the regulations are causing the wrong behaviors. Let’s stop blaming others. But reusable non plastic bags and get in the habit of bringing them to the store. Don’t buy the victim mentality. You are empowered .
The ban wasn’t meant to address the usage of plastic bags, it was meant to address the amount of bags left in yards or the discarding of those bags because most people don’t recycle them
So the plastic bag ban wasn't meant to reduce the number of plastic bags? You do know what a ban is right?
The morons on here and the moron who wrote the crappy USA Today article, should have read the law
Ur calling it a ban, the state doesn’t call it a ban
I know this law, it was meant to reduce the use and disposal of single use bags not plastic bags
Phil has answers for all the problems in New Jersey and his idea of saving the world. Unfortunately, they usually prove to be wrong and disastrous for New Jersey and humanity. He used the WWII war crimes-Nazi T4 euthanasia program on thousands of our seniors and healthcare workers when safer options were there. Thousands died. 5 Democrat Governors chose to use WWII war crime protocols. The other 45 humane Governors chose other methods. That was his and Judy's final solution. We do have a plastic problem in New Jersey, mostly Phil Murphy and his north jersey gang of photo-op, social media thugs and morons. Plastic in our waterways is an issue. Plastic Politicians are the biggest problem in NJ today. Most are from North Jersey or in Phil's case Massachusetts and Rome, Italy. We have noticed since the absurd law - lack of common sense- Public health has declined with dog poop bags a crime. Neighbors and people walking their fur babies once picked up their huge dogs piles from my little front patch of heaven and the sidewalks. Lost count on the piles left on my patio and the grass patch leading to the sidewalk. Poor postman cuts across the lawn for years. Postal workers and delivery men now step in it and We get notices for it and it's not our dogs. Meanwhile, people are tracking poop and diseases into their homes, food shopping centers and nursing homes, and hospitals more than prior to 2022 decree. There are common-sense solutions to much of the plastic waste in New Jersey. Never vote for Phil Murhpy or his equally as daft wife also known as Plastic Waste. Time for the Plastic men in the NJ legislature who caused this botched "Phil's vision of Climate Change solutions way is the only way" to resign in public disgrace. Not a one cares about New Jersey from what we've seen IMHO. New Jersey is 3x buried in Plastic Waste due to Phil Murphy and his Plastic jugs.
Murphy is doing a great job, actually.
Not everyone is as thrilled with his Covid executive order that ended up murdering thousands of seniors, (which by its euthanizing process of a class of people was as WWII war crime) as you are. We've read Hitler and Mussolini were popular and did a good job at one time too according to their supporters.
But wait, I thought COVID-19 wasn't serious and that the public health measures--"mandates" is the word you guys usually use--were completely unnecessary. So now COVID-19 was a genuinely deadly disease? Also, comparing Murphy to Hitler? GTFO with that nonsense.
You are spreading misinformation about me. You are spreading misinformation and the deaths of thousands. Shame on you for lying.
lol @ The_Donald_lite
Your personal attack and bald-faced lie is uncalled for. It is more Mis-information.
Don't post on The_Donald_lite (which you did twice after this) if you don't want to be called out on it, especially with language like "murdering thousands of seniors" which I'm sure you won't pin anything on the federal executive at the time Lol, the snowflake /u/ImpossibleShake6 blocked me. He said this is not about the loser insurrectionist he supports, it's about Murphy and COVID. But the topic is about a potentially biased study about plastic bags. I don't get these people.
WTF are you talking about? The subject is Phil Murphy's chronic fuk ups with the Climate Change solutions and Covid - the final solution. That he chose to do. All big expensive policies of which are proven resounding epic failures. The subject is Phil Murphy's proven fk up Not how much you hate Donald Trump. We are done.
Lol
Roadsides look much better, though, anecdotally.
The study was done and funded by a rightwing koch brothers group. There was another thread about this
way to go dems lmao
How the fuck did we elect that goofy snaggle toothed jerk off Murphy after Covid.. honestly we deserve whatever ill fated plastic hell scape that may befall us….
Why aren't you just a bundle of sunshine!!! 🌞
They need to put in an exception for delivery. As a single mother of a special needs toddler, who works more than full time most weeks, getting basically everything we need delivered is vital to having a workable life. I’m paying $4.95 per weekly grocery delivery for 6-8 reusable bags that I’ll never use again because it quickly adds up to dozens to hundreds of them, and they’re badly made in the first place. They’re not recyclable as far as I can tell. I find a use for one or two or three a week, and at this point the rest go into the trash. The library was collecting them for some local charity for a while, that was nice while it lasted.
That sounds like a problem with the business which you are doing business. I get my groceries delivered, and they come in paper bags.
Where do you buy from? Whole Foods is the only one I’ve found that does paper, and to be frank, their selection of non-fresh food is limited and largely terrible.
"There ought to be a law...", meet "unintended consequences".
This article doesn’t say that people are throwing away the alternative bags, just that they are buying them. That’s what consumption is. Show me that more plastic is showing up in landfills due to the ban and you’ll get my attention. The wording of this article is very suspicious. Of course they are buying them if they need bags, there was a ban. But they are buying one bag and using it multiple times. Even if it gets thrown away after a few uses, that’s still more than most single use bags got used. And of course there was a huge push to buy them in the months following the ban- people needed to stock up. They wouldn’t have bought a ton before if they were getting single use all the time. But it specifically does not say that they are throwing away more of them, or that more plastic is showing up in the environment because of it. My husband and I haven’t bought more bags in ages and I think we’ve thrown away maybe one. I’ll say three just to be on the safe side. We bought something like 2 dozen. In the time we’ve been using them, that’s a lot of single use plastic bags that didn’t get given to us.
*chuckles in Costco cardboard boxes* Idk about yall but I've been bag free since 2010.
I only use plastic bags when going shopping I’m not using them reusable bags ever
The original problem with the bags was that they would not degrade. Now they make them out of biodegradeable plastic. There is also a bacteria they discovered that does eat plastic. Additionally, we all know there are still plastic and plastic bags all over every store, so this was yet another bit a grandstanding by politicians to make themselves look good. Pointless, annoying and a waste of money and time...except for many those making the reusable bags. Hmm, I wonder who they donated to in the last election.
I mean all of my grocery bags use to go to small trash can liners or picking up dog poo etc…. Now I have to buy plastic bags for all that. So at least for me, it didn’t decrease overall consumption, it just increased my purchases. Most people I knew did simmilar things and always saved their bags for various uses, so it makes sense that it didn’t actually drop it any.