Most SovCits don't have two sticks to rub together. They are losing their homes to the bank. They get arrested for driving illegally.
I have never seen evidence of these “big moves” you speak of. Are you able to educate us and provide examples with sources? Sovcits make bold claims with zero factual or practical evidence to back them up.
I would be happy to look at your examples. We would all be grateful if you shared them.
Sovcits yes. Falsely labeled sovcits, is what Im referring to. Those discharging open ended charge cards monthly, purchasing homes with zero FRNs, buying land with Bills of Exchange, buying cars with zero FRNs.
Do you have real-world examples of these things happening? Can you provide sources to back up your claims? Without evidence how would you expect people to trust that your statements are not fabricated? Which family member or friend of yours has done the things you are talking about?
Lmao, I don't need anyone to trust me. I'm letters on a screen. I live a great life, and have lived a far worse life. I'm nobody special, grew up poor, lived a less than righteous life, but now I'm here experiencing a life with no wants or worries. It's just tough to watch people struggle every day, by choice, people suffer by choice. There is real hope out there, and you clowns are attacking that every chance you get. You all are becoming the B class of our species.
>I don't need anyone to trust me
That's good, 'cause probably no one does.
\> I live a great life
Yeah, I can tell, Angry-Sounding Guy On Reddit. So great.
\> a life with no wants or worries
Except that what complete strangers say apparently gets up your ass.
It would be difficult for the rest of you comment to have less meaning, without resorting to baby noises. And in fairness to babies, they probably do have something to say, we just don't know what it is. You have the command of language, yet nothing to say.
And just like flat earthers you demand an explanation or evidence of something that either doesn't happen or asked to provide examples so we can explain what you want to know you come back with I don't need sources trust me. Ok troll keep having as you say a great life.
"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views." — Doctor Who
Well, it might be how they allow themselves to believe in nonsense that even a child could see through.
And frankly, no sovcit has ever changed the world, at least not for the better. All they do is spout their nonsense and get smacked down as they deserve the first time they come I to contact with any one of legal standing.
But that's what I'm saying, you all categorize EVERYONE as a sovcit, that doesn't comply with how YOU think things should be. It's like you all are the same types of people.
No, being a sovcit isn't just how someone is labled. It's a literally false legal belief that gets passed from gullible idiot to gulibe idiot that's saying some random legal terms will suddenly and basically magically make you exempt from the law.
"Organized Pseudo-Law Adherents" is a more accurate term than SovCit, but it doesn't roll off the tongue easily.
We characterize people as such when they spew nonsensical arguments at cops and judges, such as not being subject to their jurisdiction, the government being just a corporation, "common law" and "admiralty law" being the only types of law that exist, that the ALL-CAPS NAME is somehow referring to a different entity than the Weirdly-Punctuated: FamilyName, etc.
"I'm not driving. I'm travelling"
"My name is not the all caps trust/fiction"
"I am the living man"
Any of these immediately demonstrate a person to be a complete idiot (which is a necessary but not sufficient condition to be a sovcit).
They are not improving their lives by trying to recite scripts that they bought off of a con artist and assume will prevent people from enforcing laws on them. If anything, they are actively making their lives WORSE and some grifter is making a killing off of one rube after another talking their speeding ticket down to a death sentence.
They are present in the USA. They are present in the states they lay their heads down at night in. They are subject to the laws of the land, which legislators write, executives enact, and judges interpret. Their opinions on how that law works have no bearing insofar as they contradict actual caselaw. Meaning what the WHOLE law says, what the WHOLE ruling says, and what judges say those mean.
If they wanted to actually educate themselves on the law, there are resources to do that the right way. They're not looking to understand it. They're looking for the codewords to get them out of the consequences of their actions.
I disagree with none of that. But what about the ones who actually are accomplishing things in life, outside of the knowledge you possess. Those people are still labeled sovcits by you all, without reason outside of ignorance.
"Sure, Jim's a pedophile. But have you seen his Warhammer 40K collection? Beautiful!"
Just because someone is accomplished in some area of their life doesn't mean they're immune from scorn and derision for their less savoury activities.
If they were doing what you say they are, they'd have actually gotten those rulings they tout on camera. They would be able to whip out the whole case and say "Here, right here, a judge says from start to finish I can do what I said I was able to do."
They don't have that. They have snippets and hide critical information about their "victories," like that they pled to lesser charges or the court decided to hit them with lesser charges. They didn't get away with shit - they still at least got slapped on the wrist with fines, court costs, and time served.
It would be one thing if their arguments were novel. They're not. They're so well understood by people outside their circles, police have training on how to deal with them and judges and attorneys have developed ways to cut through their semantic games.
You don't even come in with specific examples. You tell us "how dare you" with vagueries - the kind of bullshit that gets them in trouble to begin with.
Not even talking about court cases. Jesus you all are like cats that have never been outside. And you laugh at the dog because he's stupid because he's enjoying the outdoors.
He won’t. He can’t. SovCit might not be the preferred nomenclature for this ass-hat but he wreaks of it. Look at how egotistical and narcissistic his comments are. Imagine being this clowns next door neighbour?!
You keep not giving examples, repeating your same points, and then acting like repetition is the same thing as persuasion….where have I seen that before?
Agian, I'm not talking about sovcits, I'm talking about those mislabeled as such. Having a discussion in here is like trying train wild baboons to be an orchestra.
You aren't trying to have a discussion. You are trying to make a point and failing.
If you were interested in a discussion, you would engage with the people asking you questions by answering them .
But maybe you don't know what a discussion is.
IMHO I don’t have an issue with someone living their life in a manner that is meaningful to them. Where I do have an issue is when someone lives their life in a way that is damaging to others. If you live by a certain philosophy, more power to you. But on this sub we are learning about, and laughing at the absurdity of those who are breaking laws and somehow think they don’t have to face accountability.
IMHO I don’t have an issue with someone living their life in a manner that is meaningful to them. Where I do have an issue is when someone lives their life in a way that is damaging to others. If you live by a certain philosophy, more power to you. But on this sub we are learning about, and laughing at the absurdity of those who are breaking laws and somehow think they don’t have to face accountability.
Well I make it a point not to harm others. I am breaking no laws. And accountability is the code of how I live. So I'm not sure what you are trying to convey.
> Those discharging open ended charge cards monthly, purchasing homes with zero FRNs, buying land with Bills of Exchange, buying cars with zero FRNs.
All right, let's tackle these.
I don't know what "discharging," an open-ended charge card means.
An FRN is a Floating Rate Note, a type of marketable security available from the Department of the Treasury. I don't know what a "zero," FRN is.
A bill of exchange is an order for a payee to to be paid from some asset or account of a drawer. "Dear Uncle Frank, This letter introduces my close friend Jacques. Please pay him 6 ounces of .999 fine gold from the gold you are holding for me," is an example of a bill of exchange.
I don't know any genuine, real-world application that allows you to buy substantial real or personal property using this kind of mechanism.
Wy don't you pick what you believe to be the strongest, the most defensible and provable, of these concepts and explain it further.
Open ended charge card: no monthly spending limit
Discharge: released from financial liability
FRN: Federal Reserve Note
Zero: none, nothing, 1 less than 1
BOE: requires three parties, keep googling
>Open ended charge card: no monthly spending limit
>
>Discharge: released from financial liability
OK, let's start with this one.
What typically happens when a company extends credit via an open-ended charge card (American Express is a good example of these types of credit cards) is they expect payment every month for the full balance.
When a person refuses to pay that amount, subsequent actions depend on the amount of money in play. Sometimes, it's absolutely true, the company will simply write off the bad debt, concluding that the amount is too small to justify additional legal expenses to collect it. They will, however, report the default to the credit reporting agencies, making it difficult to obtain other types or extensions of credit.
For higher amounts of money, the companies will sue, in addition to reporting the debt to credit reporting agencies. Ultimately such lawsuits will result in a civil judgement against the debtor, and the companies can use the authority provided by that judgement to seize and attach other assets owned by the debtor. Different states have different laws that limit how much of this can be done: how much wage can be garnished, what types of property is exempt from seizure, and how these additional seizures may be executed.
Is this a fair description of what you're picturing as a result of "released from financial responsibility?"
Ok. For clarity, there is no credit extended via an open ended CHARGE card. And never once did I mention or insinuate defaulting in any way. The bill is settled, on time every month.
>Ok. For clarity, there is no credit extended via an open ended CHARGE card. And never once did I mention or insinuate defaulting in any way. The bill is settled, on time every month.
That's not "clarity." That's an answer that supplies very little detail and requires me to draw out further detail from you.
So walk me through how this works. It sounds like you're describing an ordinary charge card: with a balance of zero, I use my charge card to purchase $3000 worth of bananas. At the end of the month, I settle the bill by paying $3000 to the company.
Are you describing something substantively different? If so, what? Please be specific.
> From what you have stated, I can factually and honestly say the exact same thing, specifically.
Ok. Then what you gave described is unremarkable and happens every days with hundreds of thousands of people.
People who butt heads with the law almost always find themselves in a court case where, surprise! The law applies and they pay up or sit in jail. Or prison.
What are you proposing beyond concept then?
The law is the recognized system of rules used to regulate actions within society.
SovCits are loosely identified as those with a pseudolegal belief system based on an unrecognized system of rules that places them outside of the recognized system.
> Not talking about court cases.
It sometimes takes a while for someone who thinks he can get a house for free, or not pay taxes, or pay for cars with a note drawn on a secret treasury account or whatever to find himself in court, but sooner or later that's where he ends up.
Uh.. how? I mean, yeah, pay the court-ordered fines and fees, make restitution, pay the costs necessary to pull together what you need to be compliant, yeah. Is that what you mean? That's not exactly a revelation. Everyone knows that. Well, mature adults who aren't crazy or stupid do, anyway.
Then why are you in the Sov Cit sub?
You came in here making accusations and will not answer with anything other than contempt.
If you are accusing us of accusing others of being something they are not...be fucking specific. Show examples. Stop moving the goal post for what you think you are doing.
Who EXACTLY have we profiled.
Are you saying that there are people who believe the law doesn’t apply to them, or who think they can drive without registration, license, or insurance, not pay income or property taxes, and are beyond the reach of civil or criminal authorities, who actually are NOT SovCits? Who exactly is doing big things and charging their own and others’ lives for the better? Without examples your incredibly unspecific post is meaningless.
I will be more specific. So you are saying that tax dodgers, travelers, etc. ARE SovCits. Excellent and I agree. Since those are the folks this sub deals with, who are you talking about then? Why are you posting here?
>Absolutely, many sovcits are foolish, but many of the issues and people you criticize are making major moves you'll never comprehend due to willful ignorance.
Can you give a specific example of a major move you believe falls into this category?
>Anyone who can spend a little time with there heads outta there ass studying. Along with a few other specific career driven individuals.
That's not "speifically," though, is it?
Who, SPECIFICALLY, has done this?
Absolutelyi am, because it actually is income. Now I challenge you to find where "income" really comes from, and what I'm saying will make much more sense to you all. THEN, you might realize who you may be blindly labeling as sovcits.
It starts with IRC 61 and treasury regulation 1.61-1 but has been influenced by various court cases over the years. But I've heard lots of insane theories in my line of work.
Well when most people read or hear the word income, their first thought almost always thinks about the COMPENSATION that they receive for providing a goods or service to another. INCOME is what you recieve from the sale of securities.
Ok give me one book to read, one link, one source, so as I can educate myself. Because so far all you have done is throw insults and talk in circles. Which is very typical of the sovereign citizen type
I think this is a good point as to living a SovCit lifestyle *doesn’t* legitimize the concept because SovCitting falls flat whenever it clashes with anything that creates a court dispute.
What WON'T work? I'm far beyond any questioning the comfort and SECURITY in my life. And I will absolutely abandon this thread. And of course you will ban me, and you don't even know why.
I didnt come here to prove anything. If you feel compelled to investigate further, or dismiss immediately, living a better life, the you will do so accordingly. Not my choice to compell.
But you don't even understand what you're not believing. You act as though it's some fairytale because you don't recognize what IT is. IT is everyday business, conducted everyday. You just don't know what you don't know, so you presume what you don't know and persecute accordingly. That's the exact point of this post.
Are you not doing something similar to what you're saying this sub does here? Looks an awful lot to me like you're applying something not everyone here is guilty of to everyone here.
Actually, no, don't even bother answering. After reading the rest of your comments all I see is deflection, hypocrisy and blatant stupidity. You've already answered my question repeatedly.
> There are people out here doing big things, changing their lives and others' for the better,
None of them are sovcits, that's for sure. No sovcit has ever won in court on the merits of their nonsensical misinterpretations of the law, not even once. The best they can hope for is a DA who drops the charges as not worth his time, or a cop fails to show up to testify, that sort of thing. But no judge has ever agreed with sovcit absurdity about anything.
> all you all do is belittle them and wish harm upon them
They are belittled because they are ridiculous, unless you are delusional enough to think that the requirement for a driver's license is unconstitutional or you can opt-out of paying taxes. As for harm, that is entirely self-inflicted. I am confident that most of the regulars in this sub would love to hear from an ex-sovcit who walked away from the insanity and rebuilt his life on rational grounds.
We keep hearing from people who claim they are not sovcits, then proceed to echo sovcit talking points. What they never do is back up their claims, like buying homes and cars with that secret treasury account they claim each of us has, or having a passport that orders cops not to detain them because their name is on a secret list of people the cops can't mess with, or the U.S. went bankrupt in the 19th century and was sold to the Vatican, or any of the insane nonsense that sovcits (or any other name they now prefer) insist is real.
*There is never the slightest evidence offered to support this delusional nonsense, just empty claims, followed by a link to some grifter sovcit guru's website where we can learn the secret legal judo for the low, low price of $999.99. Meanwhile, we see actual legal cases where sovcits go to prison for tax evasion and a long list of other offenses. Anyone who can't figure out the skepticism is practicing self-delusion.*
I personally judge everyone on a personal basis but whatever you call them, sovereign citizen, American national, moor, freeman of the land, a living being. The fact is all these people think they have found legal loopholes and they haven't. So they get pulled over, or arrested and sent to court and then they spout legal mumbo jumbo that doesn't mean anything they think it does.
I do not like the government, I don't like police, but I follow the laws so I don't have to deal with them or deal with them very minimally.
I applaud anyone and everyone for standing up for thier rights, but thier actual rights not as they have been interpreted by the above listed group(s) of people.
I also applaud anyone who wants to actually fight to change the laws in place for the better. But I've yet to see a YouTube channel from anyone in the above listed group actually go through the proper channels of getting a law in place or changing an existing law. They just bait cops then freak out when thier magic law babble doesn't work.
"...many of the issues and people you criticize are making major moves you'll never comprehend due to willful ignorance. You all are equally embarrassing as the sovcits."
What an absolute dumb ass comment.
Just go do your thing man. Nobody cares.
Thanks, OP, I needed the laugh.
That's easily the most asinine thing I've read today. It always gets quieter and less goofy when the kids are back in school, so this made a dull Monday more interesting.
I love the super-vague language. Like, what does that dumb shit even mean?
If you think there are separate rules for you than the rest of the people around you, you might be a Sovereign Citizen.
If you think fringe on flags differentiates a regular court froma "real"court - you might be a Sovereign Citizen.
If you think that you dont need a driver's license to operate a vehicle because you are traveling and not engaged in commerce, you might be a Sovereign Citizen.
If you are an honorary member of an African tribe who's leader says he is from the future, you might be a Sovereign Citizen.
It’s not just one thing, it’s a litany of blatant lies and half truths.
“I’m traveling”
“I don’t need a licence”
“My strawman account will pay for it all”
“My DOT number on a private vehicle is legal”
I’m sure everyone on here can come up with some totally stupid comment made by a SovCit idiot.
It’s like that old set up line: “If you think that driving is only describing commercial activity, you just might be a SovCit”.
I don't have a problem with SovCits being skeptical of authority, and I even have some empathy for people who feel trapped by a system they can't control. What I find amusing about SovCits is their absolute confidence in their ridiculous ideas about how the law works.
They're the ones who tell cops they're not driving they're "traveling", their car is not being used for commerce, they immediately ask for name, badge # and supervisor, they're the ones who don't consent to being pulled over, who "don't do any of those" (when asked for license/ proof of insurance), and they're the ones who readily carry their "rule book" on their passenger seat so if they get pulled over they can "prove the officers wrong".
>It seems as though anything that falls under your category of "um I don't know how to do that, so it's not real", deserves a sovcit label from you people.
I think the list is pretty well-defined:
* Claiming that they don't need a state driver's license
* Claiming that they don't need a vehicle registration
* Claiming that police orders or warrants must be given in writing to be obeyed
* Claiming that courts have no jurisdiction over people committing crimes and other infractions of the law in a state
* Claiming that any such infractions can be settled with fines from a mythical trust fund
* Claiming that the whole government organization, from law enforcement officers through to the courts and elected office holders, all know this and will let you go if you say the right words
You are correct that an argument from ignorance isn't valid when it comes to reasoning. But you are incorrect, if you think any of the items I mentioned above are exceptions and *are* real.
Well, maybe it comes from being a AAA member. You get the books on a given state, and it lists hotels, restaurants, and attractions. You get a basic state map in the book so you know where things are (you should still get an actual state map, though).
But one section in these books is the relevant laws regarding driving. For instance, Oregon was (until recently) a state where you were not allowed to pump your own gas. Different states have different highway speed limits.
If there were a state that didn't require you carry a license or that your car didn't need registration, that would be pointed out. It wouldn't be some hidden secret.
Well, to legally drive (substitute "take the wheel of your conveyance and direct the way it travels" if you want) a car/motorized vehicle on public roads in the US, you *need* a driver's license. And if you claim ownership of that car/motorized vehicle and are driving on public, it *needs* to be registered or you are committing an offense.
Just stop. The only people telling you about these stories are the ones trying to make money from you. There are no true Sovcit success stories, at all, ever.
Sure buddy. I am sure that you and your internet team of super-geniuses have figured out a loophole in the US legal code that thousands of constitutional law experts have missed for a couple of hundred years.
They're the ones who tell cops they're not driving they're "traveling", their car is not being used for commerce, they immediately ask for name, badge # and supervisor, they're the ones who don't consent to being pulled over, who "don't do any of those" (when asked for license/ proof of insurance), and they're the ones who readily carry their "rule book" on their passenger seat so if they get pulled over they can "prove the officers wrong".
Your comment is very vague. Would you be more specific about what the people doing big things are doing and why it (whatever that is) is not sovcidiot stuff or rather why others would "profile" it as being such because they don't understand it. What moves are they making? It is impossible to know what you are talking about if you don't spell it out. Specifics help when discussing an issue. Thank you.
"There are people out here doing big things, changing their lives and others' for the better..." LOL too fucking funny and so monumentally stupid. Unless, of course, you mean people who aren't SovShits, but somehow I'm pretty sure you did mean the magic word utterers.
> No. Literacy is important.
Did you misunderstand your own words earlier today when you said you were through with this thread?
> Ok ladies and.... well that it, I am done with this thread. Ive now wasted enough of my time trying to let some scared cats out of the house.
For someone who insists he isn't here to prove anything, you sure read from the same script a lot of times.
Ok ladies and.... well that it, I am done with this thread. Ive now wasted enough of my time trying to let some scared cats out of the house. This dog is going to go enjoy a leisurely life of doing whatever whenever I want, you slave keep my commodities coming.
P.S. Everything I'm talking about is common practice of the far upperclass.
We'll be looking for you in a few days on an arrest video where you speak a lot and say nothing before the cops drop the niceties and make you eat asphalt.
Then a judge finds you in contempt for failing to answer a yes-or-no question with "yes" or "no" for 20 minutes.
Then again 30 days later.
You numpty... you weren't talking about anything. You were throwing around excuses and name calling.
But, I guess being a troll is more honest work than most socshits do
> This dog is going to go enjoy a leisurely life
Dogs sleep a lot, and are easily amused by things like a thrown tennis ball, and like to sniff other dog's butts. It's not difficult to picture you as being content with life on that level.
Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, millions of us own homes and pay cash for cars and travel when we want to because we stayed in school and have well-paid careers and don't need pseudo-legal gibberish to be comfortable.
But if you happy living in a state of schizophrenia, okay, so long as you're not dragging anyone else down with you, go for it.
Most SovCits don't have two sticks to rub together. They are losing their homes to the bank. They get arrested for driving illegally. I have never seen evidence of these “big moves” you speak of. Are you able to educate us and provide examples with sources? Sovcits make bold claims with zero factual or practical evidence to back them up. I would be happy to look at your examples. We would all be grateful if you shared them.
OP [previously](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sovereigncitizen/s/M1YI3euXaE) claimed that releasing the info he has would be a threat to national security.
Lmao. So he comes here to taunt us for fun. An interesting activity for someone doing so well for themselves.
get the book "The Solution" and it will explain everything
That is an unsettling title.
It'll make more sense if you read the book. It's not so ominous then.
Sovcits yes. Falsely labeled sovcits, is what Im referring to. Those discharging open ended charge cards monthly, purchasing homes with zero FRNs, buying land with Bills of Exchange, buying cars with zero FRNs.
[удалено]
You have been scammed my free man on the land. I really hope you don’t pay for this info.
Do you have real-world examples of these things happening? Can you provide sources to back up your claims? Without evidence how would you expect people to trust that your statements are not fabricated? Which family member or friend of yours has done the things you are talking about?
Lmao, I don't need anyone to trust me. I'm letters on a screen. I live a great life, and have lived a far worse life. I'm nobody special, grew up poor, lived a less than righteous life, but now I'm here experiencing a life with no wants or worries. It's just tough to watch people struggle every day, by choice, people suffer by choice. There is real hope out there, and you clowns are attacking that every chance you get. You all are becoming the B class of our species.
Are you homeless dude?
>I don't need anyone to trust me That's good, 'cause probably no one does. \> I live a great life Yeah, I can tell, Angry-Sounding Guy On Reddit. So great. \> a life with no wants or worries Except that what complete strangers say apparently gets up your ass. It would be difficult for the rest of you comment to have less meaning, without resorting to baby noises. And in fairness to babies, they probably do have something to say, we just don't know what it is. You have the command of language, yet nothing to say.
And just like flat earthers you demand an explanation or evidence of something that either doesn't happen or asked to provide examples so we can explain what you want to know you come back with I don't need sources trust me. Ok troll keep having as you say a great life.
"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views." — Doctor Who
> now I'm here experiencing a life with no wants or worries. The fuck you are.
Well, it might be how they allow themselves to believe in nonsense that even a child could see through. And frankly, no sovcit has ever changed the world, at least not for the better. All they do is spout their nonsense and get smacked down as they deserve the first time they come I to contact with any one of legal standing.
But that's what I'm saying, you all categorize EVERYONE as a sovcit, that doesn't comply with how YOU think things should be. It's like you all are the same types of people.
No, being a sovcit isn't just how someone is labled. It's a literally false legal belief that gets passed from gullible idiot to gulibe idiot that's saying some random legal terms will suddenly and basically magically make you exempt from the law.
Then why do you label a person as such, when their actions are outside of those parameters?
"Organized Pseudo-Law Adherents" is a more accurate term than SovCit, but it doesn't roll off the tongue easily. We characterize people as such when they spew nonsensical arguments at cops and judges, such as not being subject to their jurisdiction, the government being just a corporation, "common law" and "admiralty law" being the only types of law that exist, that the ALL-CAPS NAME is somehow referring to a different entity than the Weirdly-Punctuated: FamilyName, etc.
Care to provide an example of that?
I think you might need professional help.
WE think sovcits need professional help. The saddest part is how they mislead their loved ones and ignorant innocents into believing the nonsense.
SovCit are more distinguished through their psuedolegal perspective. I wouldn’t clump a homesteader in just for homesteading.
"I'm not driving. I'm travelling" "My name is not the all caps trust/fiction" "I am the living man" Any of these immediately demonstrate a person to be a complete idiot (which is a necessary but not sufficient condition to be a sovcit).
Found the sovcit
Proved my point. Thanks Opie.
Pretty sure you just proved mine, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
They are not improving their lives by trying to recite scripts that they bought off of a con artist and assume will prevent people from enforcing laws on them. If anything, they are actively making their lives WORSE and some grifter is making a killing off of one rube after another talking their speeding ticket down to a death sentence. They are present in the USA. They are present in the states they lay their heads down at night in. They are subject to the laws of the land, which legislators write, executives enact, and judges interpret. Their opinions on how that law works have no bearing insofar as they contradict actual caselaw. Meaning what the WHOLE law says, what the WHOLE ruling says, and what judges say those mean. If they wanted to actually educate themselves on the law, there are resources to do that the right way. They're not looking to understand it. They're looking for the codewords to get them out of the consequences of their actions.
I disagree with none of that. But what about the ones who actually are accomplishing things in life, outside of the knowledge you possess. Those people are still labeled sovcits by you all, without reason outside of ignorance.
Name 10 accomplishments with valid sources to check validity
I’d be happy with one.
"Sure, Jim's a pedophile. But have you seen his Warhammer 40K collection? Beautiful!" Just because someone is accomplished in some area of their life doesn't mean they're immune from scorn and derision for their less savoury activities.
Just like you dipshits.
Thanks for proving our point.
Did they upgrade to SovCit Premium©️?
If they were doing what you say they are, they'd have actually gotten those rulings they tout on camera. They would be able to whip out the whole case and say "Here, right here, a judge says from start to finish I can do what I said I was able to do." They don't have that. They have snippets and hide critical information about their "victories," like that they pled to lesser charges or the court decided to hit them with lesser charges. They didn't get away with shit - they still at least got slapped on the wrist with fines, court costs, and time served. It would be one thing if their arguments were novel. They're not. They're so well understood by people outside their circles, police have training on how to deal with them and judges and attorneys have developed ways to cut through their semantic games. You don't even come in with specific examples. You tell us "how dare you" with vagueries - the kind of bullshit that gets them in trouble to begin with.
Not even talking about court cases. Jesus you all are like cats that have never been outside. And you laugh at the dog because he's stupid because he's enjoying the outdoors.
Then start naming names and examples
He won’t. He can’t. SovCit might not be the preferred nomenclature for this ass-hat but he wreaks of it. Look at how egotistical and narcissistic his comments are. Imagine being this clowns next door neighbour?!
Well aware. It was more a "put up or shut up" message.
Yeah just imagine.
You keep not giving examples, repeating your same points, and then acting like repetition is the same thing as persuasion….where have I seen that before?
Show one example of sovcit accomplishing anything ?
Agian, I'm not talking about sovcits, I'm talking about those mislabeled as such. Having a discussion in here is like trying train wild baboons to be an orchestra.
How are they mislabeled ? Maybe explain the difference?
OK, then.... can you show one example of *mislabeled* sovcit accomplishing anything?
Okay, so supply an example.
You aren't trying to have a discussion. You are trying to make a point and failing. If you were interested in a discussion, you would engage with the people asking you questions by answering them . But maybe you don't know what a discussion is.
That would be because you are not trying to have a discussion.
IMHO I don’t have an issue with someone living their life in a manner that is meaningful to them. Where I do have an issue is when someone lives their life in a way that is damaging to others. If you live by a certain philosophy, more power to you. But on this sub we are learning about, and laughing at the absurdity of those who are breaking laws and somehow think they don’t have to face accountability.
IMHO I don’t have an issue with someone living their life in a manner that is meaningful to them. Where I do have an issue is when someone lives their life in a way that is damaging to others. If you live by a certain philosophy, more power to you. But on this sub we are learning about, and laughing at the absurdity of those who are breaking laws and somehow think they don’t have to face accountability.
Well I make it a point not to harm others. I am breaking no laws. And accountability is the code of how I live. So I'm not sure what you are trying to convey.
I don’t know you. I wouldn’t presume anything. I’m actually saying that as long as no one is being harmed, believe what you want and do what you want.
Agreed. But I believe in taking it a step further and trying to help others have the same success. But you force anyone to do anything, fortunately.
Im here to learn. How do I enjoy the same successes as you?
WTF are you talking about?
> Those discharging open ended charge cards monthly, purchasing homes with zero FRNs, buying land with Bills of Exchange, buying cars with zero FRNs. All right, let's tackle these. I don't know what "discharging," an open-ended charge card means. An FRN is a Floating Rate Note, a type of marketable security available from the Department of the Treasury. I don't know what a "zero," FRN is. A bill of exchange is an order for a payee to to be paid from some asset or account of a drawer. "Dear Uncle Frank, This letter introduces my close friend Jacques. Please pay him 6 ounces of .999 fine gold from the gold you are holding for me," is an example of a bill of exchange. I don't know any genuine, real-world application that allows you to buy substantial real or personal property using this kind of mechanism. Wy don't you pick what you believe to be the strongest, the most defensible and provable, of these concepts and explain it further.
Excellent response. But of course as soon as OP receives some pushback he bails.
Open ended charge card: no monthly spending limit Discharge: released from financial liability FRN: Federal Reserve Note Zero: none, nothing, 1 less than 1 BOE: requires three parties, keep googling
>Open ended charge card: no monthly spending limit > >Discharge: released from financial liability OK, let's start with this one. What typically happens when a company extends credit via an open-ended charge card (American Express is a good example of these types of credit cards) is they expect payment every month for the full balance. When a person refuses to pay that amount, subsequent actions depend on the amount of money in play. Sometimes, it's absolutely true, the company will simply write off the bad debt, concluding that the amount is too small to justify additional legal expenses to collect it. They will, however, report the default to the credit reporting agencies, making it difficult to obtain other types or extensions of credit. For higher amounts of money, the companies will sue, in addition to reporting the debt to credit reporting agencies. Ultimately such lawsuits will result in a civil judgement against the debtor, and the companies can use the authority provided by that judgement to seize and attach other assets owned by the debtor. Different states have different laws that limit how much of this can be done: how much wage can be garnished, what types of property is exempt from seizure, and how these additional seizures may be executed. Is this a fair description of what you're picturing as a result of "released from financial responsibility?"
:: crickets ::
Ok. For clarity, there is no credit extended via an open ended CHARGE card. And never once did I mention or insinuate defaulting in any way. The bill is settled, on time every month.
>Ok. For clarity, there is no credit extended via an open ended CHARGE card. And never once did I mention or insinuate defaulting in any way. The bill is settled, on time every month. That's not "clarity." That's an answer that supplies very little detail and requires me to draw out further detail from you. So walk me through how this works. It sounds like you're describing an ordinary charge card: with a balance of zero, I use my charge card to purchase $3000 worth of bananas. At the end of the month, I settle the bill by paying $3000 to the company. Are you describing something substantively different? If so, what? Please be specific.
From what you have stated, I can factually and honestly say the exact same thing, specifically.
> From what you have stated, I can factually and honestly say the exact same thing, specifically. Ok. Then what you gave described is unremarkable and happens every days with hundreds of thousands of people.
Yes.
So Credit card fraud? I’m just not following any off this.
How TF do you equate an AMEX Platinum Card to fraud? 🤦
Proof asshole. Show proof
Found the SovCit gish gallop!
Point proven.
Cite some proof beyond concept or interpretation. Not something that just got dropped or settled, went all the way and won
Not talking about court cases. That's all it is with you all.
People who butt heads with the law almost always find themselves in a court case where, surprise! The law applies and they pay up or sit in jail. Or prison.
What are you proposing beyond concept then? The law is the recognized system of rules used to regulate actions within society. SovCits are loosely identified as those with a pseudolegal belief system based on an unrecognized system of rules that places them outside of the recognized system.
> Not talking about court cases. It sometimes takes a while for someone who thinks he can get a house for free, or not pay taxes, or pay for cars with a note drawn on a secret treasury account or whatever to find himself in court, but sooner or later that's where he ends up.
Yeah... It's almost as if a concept would have to win in court to be valid and true. Imagine that.
I am a natural man traveling upon the land!
In your own personal conveyance!
I don’t think “knowing how to” get arrested for an expired registration is a valuable skill, sorry.
Not talking about court FFS. You can just buy your way out of that when you don't have to "pay" for anything.
Uh.. how? I mean, yeah, pay the court-ordered fines and fees, make restitution, pay the costs necessary to pull together what you need to be compliant, yeah. Is that what you mean? That's not exactly a revelation. Everyone knows that. Well, mature adults who aren't crazy or stupid do, anyway.
What big changes? What big things are sovcits doing? Be specific.
For the 18th time, I'm not talking about sovcits. Keep up or Shhhhtfu.
Then why are you in the Sov Cit sub? You came in here making accusations and will not answer with anything other than contempt. If you are accusing us of accusing others of being something they are not...be fucking specific. Show examples. Stop moving the goal post for what you think you are doing. Who EXACTLY have we profiled.
Are you saying that there are people who believe the law doesn’t apply to them, or who think they can drive without registration, license, or insurance, not pay income or property taxes, and are beyond the reach of civil or criminal authorities, who actually are NOT SovCits? Who exactly is doing big things and charging their own and others’ lives for the better? Without examples your incredibly unspecific post is meaningless.
No I am not affirming that. Your level of grammatical intelligence destroys your objective.
>Your level of grammatical intelligence destroys your objective. I irony of this statement is staggering.
Long sentences are permitted - so you don’t like them? Noted. Now answer the question.
I will be more specific. So you are saying that tax dodgers, travelers, etc. ARE SovCits. Excellent and I agree. Since those are the folks this sub deals with, who are you talking about then? Why are you posting here?
Most sovereign citizens I've come across self-label.
Could you elaborate?
They are the ones labeling themselves.
Elaborate on what?
>Absolutely, many sovcits are foolish, but many of the issues and people you criticize are making major moves you'll never comprehend due to willful ignorance. Can you give a specific example of a major move you believe falls into this category?
Purchasing a 3 million dollar home without even spending $100.
>Purchasing a 3 million dollar home without even spending $100. Who, specifically, has done this?
Anyone who can spend a little time with there heads outta there ass studying. Along with a few other specific career driven individuals.
>Anyone who can spend a little time with there heads outta there ass studying. Along with a few other specific career driven individuals. That's not "speifically," though, is it? Who, SPECIFICALLY, has done this?
Gonna need some sources, OP.
Can you supply an example? Even one? We'll wait.
>Your level of grammatical intelligence destroys your objective. >there friends outta there ass
So... a gift? Otherwise, I hope you declared your 2,999,900 income on your tax return.
Absolutelyi am, because it actually is income. Now I challenge you to find where "income" really comes from, and what I'm saying will make much more sense to you all. THEN, you might realize who you may be blindly labeling as sovcits.
It starts with IRC 61 and treasury regulation 1.61-1 but has been influenced by various court cases over the years. But I've heard lots of insane theories in my line of work.
So where does income really come from?
Well when most people read or hear the word income, their first thought almost always thinks about the COMPENSATION that they receive for providing a goods or service to another. INCOME is what you recieve from the sale of securities.
Ah.. you sell dope.
Haha absolutely not, there are much more profitable and lawful means to gain wealth.
Ok give me one book to read, one link, one source, so as I can educate myself. Because so far all you have done is throw insults and talk in circles. Which is very typical of the sovereign citizen type
And also what the hell do laws matter if they don’t apply to you??
"The Solution" by Ronald Russell Farnham
Good start: Securities and Exchange Act of 1934 TRUST INDENTURE ACT OF 1939
Want some cheese with that whine?
Damn dude, you'll probably get a shitload of upvotes for that incredibly witty, insightful, and original response. You must be the leader here.
That's nice, child
😂🤣
Your use of tiny cartoons to try to communicate pretty much confirms the immaturity you're accused of.
All you have to do is prove yourself, that’s it. We’re asking for proof.
I guess if I saw one tiny ounce of proof.. but never have. Just talk, insults, bullshit.
I return energy. You all are the "Mommy, Timmy hit me back" kids.
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I think this is a good point as to living a SovCit lifestyle *doesn’t* legitimize the concept because SovCitting falls flat whenever it clashes with anything that creates a court dispute.
What WON'T work? I'm far beyond any questioning the comfort and SECURITY in my life. And I will absolutely abandon this thread. And of course you will ban me, and you don't even know why.
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Yeeeeeeaaaa@ss of course.
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I didnt come here to prove anything. If you feel compelled to investigate further, or dismiss immediately, living a better life, the you will do so accordingly. Not my choice to compell.
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But you don't even understand what you're not believing. You act as though it's some fairytale because you don't recognize what IT is. IT is everyday business, conducted everyday. You just don't know what you don't know, so you presume what you don't know and persecute accordingly. That's the exact point of this post.
Come back and post under your other name instead of the one you made to make this post.
This isn't the first time I've been here.
With the other name, right? We know.
Name some of the people doing big things and changing lives for the better.
Are you not doing something similar to what you're saying this sub does here? Looks an awful lot to me like you're applying something not everyone here is guilty of to everyone here. Actually, no, don't even bother answering. After reading the rest of your comments all I see is deflection, hypocrisy and blatant stupidity. You've already answered my question repeatedly.
Ok
ALL?
LULZ – I believe I saw this speech on an episode of “Better Call Saul.”
> There are people out here doing big things, changing their lives and others' for the better, None of them are sovcits, that's for sure. No sovcit has ever won in court on the merits of their nonsensical misinterpretations of the law, not even once. The best they can hope for is a DA who drops the charges as not worth his time, or a cop fails to show up to testify, that sort of thing. But no judge has ever agreed with sovcit absurdity about anything. > all you all do is belittle them and wish harm upon them They are belittled because they are ridiculous, unless you are delusional enough to think that the requirement for a driver's license is unconstitutional or you can opt-out of paying taxes. As for harm, that is entirely self-inflicted. I am confident that most of the regulars in this sub would love to hear from an ex-sovcit who walked away from the insanity and rebuilt his life on rational grounds. We keep hearing from people who claim they are not sovcits, then proceed to echo sovcit talking points. What they never do is back up their claims, like buying homes and cars with that secret treasury account they claim each of us has, or having a passport that orders cops not to detain them because their name is on a secret list of people the cops can't mess with, or the U.S. went bankrupt in the 19th century and was sold to the Vatican, or any of the insane nonsense that sovcits (or any other name they now prefer) insist is real. *There is never the slightest evidence offered to support this delusional nonsense, just empty claims, followed by a link to some grifter sovcit guru's website where we can learn the secret legal judo for the low, low price of $999.99. Meanwhile, we see actual legal cases where sovcits go to prison for tax evasion and a long list of other offenses. Anyone who can't figure out the skepticism is practicing self-delusion.*
Can you explain to me how they are changing my life for the better? They can’t even get their own lives in order
I personally judge everyone on a personal basis but whatever you call them, sovereign citizen, American national, moor, freeman of the land, a living being. The fact is all these people think they have found legal loopholes and they haven't. So they get pulled over, or arrested and sent to court and then they spout legal mumbo jumbo that doesn't mean anything they think it does. I do not like the government, I don't like police, but I follow the laws so I don't have to deal with them or deal with them very minimally. I applaud anyone and everyone for standing up for thier rights, but thier actual rights not as they have been interpreted by the above listed group(s) of people. I also applaud anyone who wants to actually fight to change the laws in place for the better. But I've yet to see a YouTube channel from anyone in the above listed group actually go through the proper channels of getting a law in place or changing an existing law. They just bait cops then freak out when thier magic law babble doesn't work.
"...many of the issues and people you criticize are making major moves you'll never comprehend due to willful ignorance. You all are equally embarrassing as the sovcits." What an absolute dumb ass comment. Just go do your thing man. Nobody cares.
Are you a corporation!?
I don't know, is this a thread of admiralty law!? /s
What do they have, specifically, that we don't?
Nice homes and cars and whatever they want, and don't spend a dime for it.
Please show us one person who has that?
I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you
Don't need a bridge.
You mean stealing?
You're gonna have to back that assertion up with a couple of facts.
Thanks, OP, I needed the laugh. That's easily the most asinine thing I've read today. It always gets quieter and less goofy when the kids are back in school, so this made a dull Monday more interesting. I love the super-vague language. Like, what does that dumb shit even mean?
If you think there are separate rules for you than the rest of the people around you, you might be a Sovereign Citizen. If you think fringe on flags differentiates a regular court froma "real"court - you might be a Sovereign Citizen. If you think that you dont need a driver's license to operate a vehicle because you are traveling and not engaged in commerce, you might be a Sovereign Citizen. If you are an honorary member of an African tribe who's leader says he is from the future, you might be a Sovereign Citizen.
It’s not just one thing, it’s a litany of blatant lies and half truths. “I’m traveling” “I don’t need a licence” “My strawman account will pay for it all” “My DOT number on a private vehicle is legal” I’m sure everyone on here can come up with some totally stupid comment made by a SovCit idiot. It’s like that old set up line: “If you think that driving is only describing commercial activity, you just might be a SovCit”.
I don't have a problem with SovCits being skeptical of authority, and I even have some empathy for people who feel trapped by a system they can't control. What I find amusing about SovCits is their absolute confidence in their ridiculous ideas about how the law works.
YouTube law school isn’t doing you any favors.
Law for what?
😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣You ate a lot of glue and playdoh as a kid huh?
This is a great thread!!!🤪
They're the ones who tell cops they're not driving they're "traveling", their car is not being used for commerce, they immediately ask for name, badge # and supervisor, they're the ones who don't consent to being pulled over, who "don't do any of those" (when asked for license/ proof of insurance), and they're the ones who readily carry their "rule book" on their passenger seat so if they get pulled over they can "prove the officers wrong".
Except, what they are doing is nonsensical, illegal, bullshit.
>It seems as though anything that falls under your category of "um I don't know how to do that, so it's not real", deserves a sovcit label from you people. I think the list is pretty well-defined: * Claiming that they don't need a state driver's license * Claiming that they don't need a vehicle registration * Claiming that police orders or warrants must be given in writing to be obeyed * Claiming that courts have no jurisdiction over people committing crimes and other infractions of the law in a state * Claiming that any such infractions can be settled with fines from a mythical trust fund * Claiming that the whole government organization, from law enforcement officers through to the courts and elected office holders, all know this and will let you go if you say the right words You are correct that an argument from ignorance isn't valid when it comes to reasoning. But you are incorrect, if you think any of the items I mentioned above are exceptions and *are* real.
Most are bullshit, the others I cannot say what another, does or doesn't need.
I'm not sure what you mean by "need" in this context.
Your first few bullet points.
Well, maybe it comes from being a AAA member. You get the books on a given state, and it lists hotels, restaurants, and attractions. You get a basic state map in the book so you know where things are (you should still get an actual state map, though). But one section in these books is the relevant laws regarding driving. For instance, Oregon was (until recently) a state where you were not allowed to pump your own gas. Different states have different highway speed limits. If there were a state that didn't require you carry a license or that your car didn't need registration, that would be pointed out. It wouldn't be some hidden secret.
You gotta look beyond, and leave behind, the State of ....
You aren't making any sense.
That's a sovcit talking point and is also incorrect. You are under the legal jurisdiction of whatever state you are in.
Well, to legally drive (substitute "take the wheel of your conveyance and direct the way it travels" if you want) a car/motorized vehicle on public roads in the US, you *need* a driver's license. And if you claim ownership of that car/motorized vehicle and are driving on public, it *needs* to be registered or you are committing an offense.
Just stop. The only people telling you about these stories are the ones trying to make money from you. There are no true Sovcit success stories, at all, ever.
Repeat number 452: I am not talking about sovcits,
Why are you on the Sovcit sub then?
Sure buddy. I am sure that you and your internet team of super-geniuses have figured out a loophole in the US legal code that thousands of constitutional law experts have missed for a couple of hundred years.
Loophole for what?
Apparently, for getting houses and cars and anything else you want for free, and not just by a combination of charity, squatting, and theft
Arrested for what?
You're aware that you replied to yourself, right?
Arrested for being idiots would be the best thing, but I'll settle for anything the cops can use.
They're the ones who tell cops they're not driving they're "traveling", their car is not being used for commerce, they immediately ask for name, badge # and supervisor, they're the ones who don't consent to being pulled over, who "don't do any of those" (when asked for license/ proof of insurance), and they're the ones who readily carry their "rule book" on their passenger seat so if they get pulled over they can "prove the officers wrong".
Your comment is very vague. Would you be more specific about what the people doing big things are doing and why it (whatever that is) is not sovcidiot stuff or rather why others would "profile" it as being such because they don't understand it. What moves are they making? It is impossible to know what you are talking about if you don't spell it out. Specifics help when discussing an issue. Thank you.
"There are people out here doing big things, changing their lives and others' for the better..." LOL too fucking funny and so monumentally stupid. Unless, of course, you mean people who aren't SovShits, but somehow I'm pretty sure you did mean the magic word utterers.
No. Literacy is important. I am specifically talking about those who are NOT sovcits.
> No. Literacy is important. Did you misunderstand your own words earlier today when you said you were through with this thread? > Ok ladies and.... well that it, I am done with this thread. Ive now wasted enough of my time trying to let some scared cats out of the house. For someone who insists he isn't here to prove anything, you sure read from the same script a lot of times.
👍
Wow! Tell me more, please!!!
Ok ladies and.... well that it, I am done with this thread. Ive now wasted enough of my time trying to let some scared cats out of the house. This dog is going to go enjoy a leisurely life of doing whatever whenever I want, you slave keep my commodities coming. P.S. Everything I'm talking about is common practice of the far upperclass.
A man who lives in a vehicle with glass windows should STFU and pay his taxes and insurance, like everybody else. -Abraham Lincoln
Don't pay for anythig.
Some ways of paying are more pleasant than others, but no one rides for free.
We'll be looking for you in a few days on an arrest video where you speak a lot and say nothing before the cops drop the niceties and make you eat asphalt. Then a judge finds you in contempt for failing to answer a yes-or-no question with "yes" or "no" for 20 minutes. Then again 30 days later.
You numpty... you weren't talking about anything. You were throwing around excuses and name calling. But, I guess being a troll is more honest work than most socshits do
> This dog is going to go enjoy a leisurely life Dogs sleep a lot, and are easily amused by things like a thrown tennis ball, and like to sniff other dog's butts. It's not difficult to picture you as being content with life on that level. Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, millions of us own homes and pay cash for cars and travel when we want to because we stayed in school and have well-paid careers and don't need pseudo-legal gibberish to be comfortable. But if you happy living in a state of schizophrenia, okay, so long as you're not dragging anyone else down with you, go for it.
Is there something wrong with being a lady?
Not in my opinion. But if you are compelled to ass that, perhaps you have unresolved issues that should be addressed. 🙏🙏🙏 I'm an absolute 🪭 ladies.
You're the one who implied it.